Mini 1755: Game Over

[droog]

hey guys

[droog]

just looking at this page its all about pisskop
thats great but what about everyone else

[droog]

Strange that Axle asked Keyser about fake claim, during RVS. Never seen this happen before.

its random questions instead of random votes

[droog]

Spoiler: AxleGreaser's conclusions

Things i learned.
You're not tilted about them. I considered that a possibility.

Things I didn't learn.
Whether you are more opposed to them than I am.

Strange that Axle asked Keyser about fake claim, during RVS. Never seen this happen before.

Yeah, it seemed a bit uncalled for. Not sure what to make of it.

The timing of his question makes this question

null-indicative

for me. We're all strangers, it was still RVS - I presume AxleGreaser is trying to find out more about the new faces he does not "know". This is not AxleGreaser aiming to discern my alignment through his question. If he had thrown this question further down the line to me, in order to push it as an alignment indicative factor... in that case, it would be suspicious.

VOTE: Axle for asking about fake claim when he is a very experienced player

VOTE: Performer

like this post

[droog]

I suspect all 5 mentioned earlier might be town

?

[droog]

I really think it is rather suspicious you start jumping on me when I made a simple statement

this is wrong
keysey said "please show me" and "please tell me"
not really "jumping" espeically in rvs

[droog]

FOS: All those people quoting CM Punk into the game thread

FOS: Performer for complaining about player activity in a game starting on the freaking weekend.

jumps in the game after things have happened
has clearly read it
ignores the most interesting parts

[droog]

not even page 3
ircher looks really scummy

the only thing stopping a vote right now
is that ircher is newer and probably not in the swing
still really think keysey hammered him

[droog]

Time for a read list. The game has almost been solved already.

From town to scum:

Read List D1 V1

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Heat}

{Massive}
{Mafiaturtle}
{Burning_Earth, Deus}

{Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop, Keyser, Axle}

why do you call town scum and scum town
do they play mafia that way where youre from

[droog]

Strange that Axle asked Keyser about fake claim, during RVS. Never seen this happen before.

its random questions instead of random votes

Welcome, droog. Thanks for pointing this out - I haven't heard that phrase used in a really long time -

random question

instead of rvs. I know it's still a little early but can we get a reads list?

technically called rqs
not really that useful tbh but some people like it
ill have reads in ~15

[droog]

keysey have you considered taking over mastin academy

[droog]

vote: pisskop

Like I dont even care about this game, and the fapterbation and trying to force us out of lylo with overanalysis is something both keysor and ai do.

I scumread ai for sure. Take a look at his very small meta and tell me why.

VOTE: pisskop

Fixed formatting of vote tags! --Dier

[droog]

i played pisskop in a game where he did voted obvtown in lylo as a gambit
i think
not seeing anything different here tbh

not engaging until he changes his tune
otherwise just an easy target to waste time on

[droog]

Let’s talk about this wagon on PK. Burning and Ras voted him in RVS, then AI jumps on the wagon, changing his vote from Ircher to PK “because he’s scum.” He later lists his reasons, where Keyser “feels like sheeping this” and jumps on too, at which point PK just gives up and selfvotes putting himself at L-2 because he doesn’t care and this game is dumb. Ircher now wants to lynch him based on his poor attitude (but isn’t doing anything about it?).

AI’s reasons for voting him aren’t bad. PK has been at him with nothing of substance, with no sense of real intent. Unless, of course, he was just trying to see what reaction he could get out of the guy that, at the time, wasn’t really contributing much either. If that’s the case, it worked. He definitely got a reaction.

What’s really bothering me is the selfvote. He says he doesn’t care about this game, and yet, he doesn’t want to let somebody who does sub in for him. At this point, we’re put in a crappy situation. If we Policy Lynch like Ircher is suggesting, he may flip town and we’re already down on day 1, which isn't a good start. If we don’t and he survives the night, he may just continue with his current level of participation (or lack thereof) and draining attitude.

I guess what I want to know, PK, is what exactly is your intent with the selfvote?

dont like this on gut
it feels like

trying to overthink to look town
like talking and all is good but
i just dont see anything valuable about the pk wagon to analyze this early

[droog]

Alarm bells went off in my head when I read these.

[spoiler*][/spoiler]

[droog]

My only read right now is that I don't think pisskop is as scummy as people are making him seem

That and I don't like ircher right. He's pushing pisskop but doesn't want to be held accountable for his lynch

these reads feel odd to me
i want to hear more about them

[droog]

The only one who I agree

with here is AG. Ircher seems incredibly intent to frame pisskop in a way that strikes me as really scummy. He suggests a PL, but then doesn't vote him because he doesn't want to push him up to L-1. He even acknowledges that he's likely to be wrong. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me,

and it kinda signals to me that he knows more than the rest of u

s, aka he's scum.

I'm currently voting for AI (orig. it was a RVS vote, but I'm quite comfortable with it right no

w). Like who just refuses to discuss their reads list because the other person hasn't contributed? its a reads list, and you must have reasons for them. And I'd like to know them.

I like AG for town right now. He's engaged and is asking other people questions, and he doesn't seem like he has anything to hide. I'm in agreement with you there.

these arent convincing me
especially the commentary on ai
it all sounds like trying to get reads by consensus than scumhenting

[droog]

reads

town

keysey (great rvs)
axle (like his approach)

null

ircher (botd for inexperience)
pisskop (lynch him anyways)

scum

heat (dont like his styre)
uptolate (weird style)

scum

[droog]

art i could also go either way on

[droog]

dont like this on gut
it feels like

trying to overthink to look town
like talking and all is good but
i just dont see anything valuable about the pk wagon to analyze this early

[droog]

not yet anyways

the only read im strong on is keysey
i really liked that opening
itd take a lot to change that this early

[droog]

also i feel pretty strong in ignoring pisskop
the guy gets his read s by a mix of
sincere trolling and shitposts

he says blarney to get a rise -> read
just ignore him and he'll engage more openly

[droog]

Droog,

You say you don't see anything of value in the pisskop wagon and you've got pisskop as a neutral read, but you're still fine with him being lynched. Why?

He will play this way all game
Trolling / shit posting is howned he gets reads
If anything associations on Pk are more useful than Pkwy

He just works better dead than Live
also I'm not against a wagon
Just giving him more attention

[droog]

hasnt he already?

[droog]

To let yu guys tie your own knots and to follow my established meta.

@Pisskop
You talking to me?

The suggestion of PLing someone has nothing to do with if they're scum or not. It's more of "This person is a troll who is making the game extremely unpleasant." It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Yea. I had hoped it was obvious enough even you could pick up on it?

Its about reactions. You going to walk into more of those setups?

ai i want you to answer pk here

AI has completely neglected to follow up here:

This is so not your town game.

And in general this town is bad.

[droog]

What the heck! This is absolute nonsense; what you just said is AI does not know who town are and who scum are, so therefore, he's completely wrong. Ok, maybe I did poorly stating my thoughts here, but FOS Droog, as this could be considered a scumslip. It is AI's opinion, and furthermore, a town player wouldn't know who's town and who's scum except for themselves. Scum on the other hand would.

I am calling ai'a reads backwards

[droog]

I do not get how you don't
See why I'm voting pisskop
Even he gets that it's policy
To be replaced

[droog]

isn't much. While I see why you'd scumread me then, I don't see why you would say you would vote me if it weren't my lack of experience. Such a vote would've been fine then, but right now, I think it would be ill-justified.

Well I haven't made one yet

Your reading of me is so backwards
On every point
That you are actually looking more town

[droog]

I mean, self voting is bad and its a scummy action, but it doesn't necessarily make someone scum. The whole "lets PL pisskop!!" came really quickly after a few posts; I'm still holding my opinion that it was very opportunistic of you. In addition, you're now townreading pk, but you still aren't really stopping your whole policy lynch crusade? Do you still want to PL him?

this is all a good point
(coming from someone fine with lynching pk)

heat why dont you think irchers scumminess
comes from being inexperienced?

[droog]

huh

[droog]

@Performer I've played a few games on Tumblr with a slightly different format (the biggest difference being shorter days and nights) and Town of Salem. Like I said, nothing of this caliber.

[droog]

i didnt know your experience so i dont have an answer yet
im willing ot rethink

but you did say 'irchir and i have about the same experience'
just a moment ago

[droog]

On that, not sure Im okay with droog voteparking, calling me null, and then defending me in aroundabout way

me neither tbh

[droog]

everything performer has said on this page is towny

[droog]

I voted Droog because we still got time and I want to see what Droog thought about my analysis of him.

did you have thoughts about my thoughts
or are you waiting for me to say something else

[droog]

What the heck! This is absolute nonsense; what you just said is AI does not know who town are and who scum are, so therefore, he's completely wrong. Ok, maybe I did poorly stating my thoughts here, but FOS Droog, as this could be considered a scumslip. It is AI's opinion, and furthermore, a town player wouldn't know who's town and who's scum except for themselves. Scum on the other hand would.

I am calling ai'a reads backwards

I do not get how you don't
See why I'm voting pisskop
Even he gets that it's policy
To be replaced

isn't much. While I see why you'd scumread me then, I don't see why you would say you would vote me if it weren't my lack of experience. Such a vote would've been fine then, but right now, I think it would be ill-justified.

Well I haven't made one yet

Your reading of me is so backwards
On every point
That you are actually looking more town

[droog]

I'm thinking Ras, Heat, and Droog. What about the rest of y

ras has the leading wagon
and is your second-biggest scumread

why are you waiting?
you have not responded to my responses
and are not pushing a case on me for everyone else

[droog]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quip

[droog]

3. Yet, if I were experienced, you would've voted me when you wote it. As I said, at the early stages, that would be acceptable, but when you replace in, you should read the entire thread before casting your vote. Imo,

Motive > Action

. I tried explaining this in my last game, but I don't think it worked well (in fact, I think it made me look worse.....) In other words, this basically boils down to you

attempting to subtly mislead town

and try to get a mislynch in.

all reads scum make try to mislead town
you havent proved that the read i gave was scumy
or even shown the 'motive'

what you have is me saying your entrance was scummy
and if you werent experienced i wouldve voted on it

[droog]

saying "i think droog is scum"
then saying "i could also lynch ras what do you guys think"
is not pushing a case

you may have made a case
but you sat around while your second scum read is being lynched
not trying to convince others of your case on me
and not switching to a wagon that could go through with your effort

[droog]

ld choose a few canidates for lynching D1 now, so we meet deadline.

I'm thinking Ras, Heat, and Droog. What about the rest of you?

this is the problem post
ras has the largest wagon with 4 votes
and is your second scumread

but at this ponit you arent pushing a case on me
when id already responded
(you wait for me ot prod you on it again)
you aernt convincing anyone to vote me

and you ask for permission
y

ou ask for permission

to switch to your second scumread
on a strong wagon

[droog]

why do you need consensus?
your top scumread is me and you are only arguing with me
you are not writing caess to convince others

your second top scumread is the top wagon
why do you need consensus?

"i dont like zeroing in"
does not answer this question

[droog]

these are serious concerns you have not addressed
VOTE: irchir

not because omgus
not because you're inexperienced and "an easy target"
not because of some early scummy posts

your motives are at odd with your statements
i dont believe you are really pushing me
like you say you are

[droog]

Those votes on Ircher are really, really, really awful.

you keep defending irchir
but he isnt some perfect town read
wo has never done a scummy thing

if all the read you have boils down to
'his meta is weird but i understand it'
then i am really concerned
at why you keeep whiteknighting for him

[droog]

Read List D1 V1

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Heat}

{Massive}
{Mafiaturtle}
{Burning_Earth, Deus}

{Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop, Keyser, Axle}

Read List D1 V2

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Performer, UpTooLate}

{Lilac, Massive}

{Burning_Earth}

{Deus, Heat}

{Axle, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

Read List D1 V3

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Massive, Burning_Earth}

{Axle, Heat}

{UpTooLate, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

Read List 1.4

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}

{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}

{Pisskop}

{UpTooLate, Heat}

i agree a lot more with\
what your readlist has become

[droog]

1. In 299, Droog writes "the only thing stopping a vote right now
is that ircher is newer and probably not in the swing
still really think keysey hammered him" - The way this is worded is weird to me. Look at what I italicized and bolded. What this basically states is that my inexperience kept Droog from voting me when writing the post. Which, like I said, reading 2 pages out of 12+ pages in a thread is not enough justification for a vote. I understand I looked scummy on page 2, but heck, that's only page 2 of this game. I prob. wouldn't be suspicious of this post except for the fact that my page 2 behavior seems to warrant an automatic vote. You'd be perfectly fine just saying that you think I'm scum so far, but this seems more oportunistic than anything else. You saw an opportunity to try to lynch me and took it.

> you saw an opportunity to try to lynch me and took it
> by not voting

m8 if id wanted to lynch you i wouldnt be plotting about it
ai keeps coming to your defense because
im not the only one suspicious

if id wanted you idve voted you
instead i saw something really scummy and waited
because newness often explains scummy

[droog]

keysey have you considered taking over mastin academy

youre mocking this
it means that keysey is a good player
which means i think keysey is on the same page as me

just becauseyou dont see the purpose
doesnt mean its bad

now if you can ascribe scum motive to this
('droog is flattering')
you might have something

[droog]

and if you werent experienced i wouldve voted on it" - Exactly. I'm fine with the former, but find the latter oportunistic.

if i was scum trying ot lynch you
oportunistically
i wouldnt go screaming about how i dont want to lynch you

[droog]

Consensus is necessary to arrive at the right conclusions.

[droog]

8. In 437, you decide to vote ,e at 12:11 AM my time complaining I had not answered your concerns despite the fact that I specifically stated "I will post my case tommorrow". Give me time to answer - I understand your arguments, but the timing of your vote is rather unreasonable.

do you actually think i
looked up your fucking timezone
when we were in the middle of talking to each other

[droog]

ai if youre going to contine
to defend irchir

i really want some explanation
about why all the above is somehow towny

[droog]

oh yeah boonskies is in this game
didnt he want to wagon me 10 pages ago

[droog]

{AlwaysInnocent}
{Ircher, Keyser}
{Deus}
{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}
{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}
{Pisskop}
{UpTooLate, Heat}

i agree a lot more with\
what your readlist has become

@Droog is there anything you disagree with, in AI's reads list? And how come?
Iirc, this is at least the second time you put up a mysterious post, on agreeing with AI's reads.

I've been seeing AI continuously defend Ircher, but he also answered for me a few times.
@pk and others: is this typical behavior of AI?...

i agree with it a lot more
keysey is still my top townread

pisskop has been null but i am leaning hom more scum
mostly out of an odd sense that his reaction
trolling feels ingenuine this time

utl and heat are moving more toward null for me though
i agree that there may be one scum in there

my only big beef is his irchir defending
though im starting to see that as town
in a dumb way too

in short writing this post
i convinced myself that i agree with ai
a lot more than i thought i would

[droog]

[unvote[[/unvote]
i want ot rethink some things

[droog]

UNVOTE:

[droog]

his bare agreement with AI's reads

[droog]

what are you rethinking, Droog?

my vote (clearly)
and my reads
what are you expecting
and why do you make my comment sound conniving

[droog]

AI has yet to answer this question. AI just dodged a question about his reads. How long do you dumbasses want to keep up this charade instead of pressuring him?

bah pk is right here
im going to reread the whole game
something doesnt add up
and i dont like any of my reads anymore

[droog]

eww. Its like you want me to push you for being shallow.

[droog]

come to think of it
pisskop cant just repeat his question
he has to drag my request for it in too

like he needs cover

[droog]

performer's recent vote is so scummy in hindsight

can anyone tell me what this guys reads are
i had to trawl back to 247 for a readlsit
and none of his posts since then really show
an evolution of thought

they just ask questions to get people in trouble

notice how he adds boonskiies (lurker) as a scumread
in 491

and then cites my post on boon as part of his vote
in 498

[droog]

He currently ties Ras on scummiest player currently (and yes, I do think both are scum).

@Irch you stated Rask and Droog are scummiest, there's already a wagon on Rask.

Suddenly you unvote Rask and vote Droog. How is this going to hel

p when we're already halfway through day phase 1? If this keeps up, we'll reach a no lynch.

UNVOTE: Doesn't look like Ras is the way to go

VOTE: Droog

[droog]

When somebody else raises the same question as you,

it lends credibility to your question.

To try to call me scummy for raising it as a valid point when the question is unanswered looks like you never cared about the question to begin with.

why do you care about credibility
are you asking ai questions because
you want your questions to look good
or because you want answers

[droog]

funnily enough the question was about why ai scumread you

[droog]

Spoiler:

Let's lynch Pisskop.

See his ISO:

AI, youre full of piss and vinegar today?

Some weird comment on my provocative behavior, and nothing more. At least Keyser confronted me with my lack of substance, which makes me place Keyser as fence-town for now. He seemed genuinely bothered by it. But Pisskop leaves it at that.

Then I vote for him, and call him scum.

Then he reacts:

eww. Its like you want me to push you for being shallow.

He says it is like I want him to push me for being shallow. But leaves it at that, again.

During this time, I am interacting with Keyser and Axle.

Then he simply places a vote on me:

vote" AI

You keep not engaging. We'll see who wins

"You keep not engaging," he says. Um. If someone is not engaging in this game, it is Pisskop.

Then he says: "We'll see who wins". This seems like a direct challenge to me. If he truly was town, then he would have to consider the possibility that I am town too. In that case, we win together. But it seems that he thinks he needs to win from me. Why? Because I think he is scum, and he knows I am town.

If he is scum, then he probably knows that I didn't have much on him at that point. It was simply an initial impression of me that he could be scum, but I went along with it. So he probably thought: "Who does he think he is? He knows nothing. I have only made a single post as scum. Surely he cannot

know

that I scum? Well, I'll show him and defeat him in a battle of wits." But by accepting my challenge he forgot something crucial: as town he would be more interested in solving this game with me than trying to beat me at my game.

this case looks a lot beteter
with even more pisskop posts
the basic parts are still true

[droog]

This game is dumb. AI is dumb. I have never seen such an overbearing attempt to get me to ???

Its like you looking for excuses to vote me.

still using the same arguments too

[droog]

If you got that then what is your problem here? Do you feel Ive paid too much attention to others? You feel left out?

It seems like you are just townreading people for appearance, while not really caring about the underlying reasons.

[droog]

ai i apologize for doubting you
for a variety of reasons i think irchir is town again

he does drop points after theyve been challenged
but this is more from his newness than scumminess

he is genuinely confused by me
which comes out in his case. not scummy

[droog]

Droog has no case of his own, or even much to add. He plans to piggyback of ai?

"im going to ignore droogs recent points
wow suddenly he has no case!"

[droog]

i mean seriously

the moment i start posting any reasons to scumread you
you start picking at them
and when i pick back
you say i dont have a case at all

[droog]

The wagon on me is crap and I dont really think Id set a good impression if I changed my behaviors under a wee bit of pressure.

"this is why i voted for myself instead"

[droog]

Let’s talk about this wagon on PK. Burning and Ras voted him in RVS, then AI jumps on the wagon, changing his vote from Ircher to PK “because he’s scum.” He later lists his reasons, where Keyser “feels like sheeping this” and jumps on too, at which point PK just gives up and selfvotes putting himself at L-2 because he doesn’t care and this game is dumb. Ircher now wants to lynch him based on his poor attitude (but isn’t doing anything about it?).

AI’s reasons for voting him aren’t bad. PK has been at him with nothing of substance, with no sense of real intent. Unless, of course, he was just trying to see what reaction he could get out of the guy that, at the time, wasn’t really contributing much either. If that’s the case, it worked. He definitely got a reaction.

What’s really bothering me is the selfvote. He says he doesn’t care about this game, and yet, he doesn’t want to let somebody who does sub in for him. At this point, we’re put in a crappy situation. If we Policy Lynch like Ircher is suggesting, he may flip town and we’re already down on day 1, which isn't a good start. If we don’t and he survives the night, he may just continue with his current level of participation (or lack thereof) and draining attitude.

I guess what I want to know, PK, is what exactly is your intent with the selfvote?

i think this is where my scumread came from you utl
i could explain why i scumread it in hindsight
but now i dont really feel it

and i think me saying
"theres probably scum in utl/heat"
was just filling the holes of my other reads

[droog]

I promise to do actual things after work and play.

4 minutes later

Blitz 11 - AI had in depth reads an analysis. He made judgements after publicly displaying his logic
Scum AI pushes people with the least amount of work possible. He calls people scum and finds reasons to scumread them, but his thought process is one-way and his intent to lynch is made clear without the fluff of overanalysis.

The difference between the two is everything my little heart could desire.

vote: ai

I dont even think itd take my special brand of meta to see that youre pointed and goal-driven instead of in a problem solving mode.

pk clearly didnt engage with the material
he just gave some artifical differences
to justify a vote

[droog]

Well, thats just it.

You havent got a case on me

, but here we have an excellent example of you acting like you.

We'll just leave it to the other players to look it over.

lmao
the arguments hes pushing on me
are the exact ones he used on ai

[droog]

Sure. And ask yourself: if he 'learned' from his playthrough, why is he acting this way again; nevermind alignment?

all of you, not just him. he still needs sorting.

"ai still needs sorting while im lynching him"

[droog]

I dont care about your question. Post some content now you creepy ass avatar.

remember kids, its bad when droog drops questions

[droog]

FOS on Performer for talking about irrelevant stuff all game.

That's a very good point. But at the same time, I'm not only doing that. I like to socialize sometimes, keep it fun you know? It's just my style (not a copied version of someone else's).

It's like Keyser's funny pictures and videos lol.

@pk I can't say with much certainty at this point, if your play in this game matches your scum game. You're one of those players who varies things more...fluidly than others.

performer at the same time
says he only socializes sometimes
but cant give an opinion on pisskop

[droog]

i have a new reads list

town

keysey (same reasons as before)
ai (same wavelength, doesnt take pk crap)
axle (he gets in-depth in a way not worth faking as scum)
irchir (misguided but coming from the right place)

heat (nothing sets off alarm bells)
utl (ive decided my old scumtells were crap here)
boonskiiies (lurksakc)


pisskop
performer

scum

[droog]

Like fuck son, lets drop the thing where we make shllow remarks and then ignore any follow up Qs.

u1st

[droog]

I dont care which, and Ill read up Sunday, but one is going atp.

[droog]

^^ World's longest omgs ^^

Ive seen scum who literally spam whole pages out with their flail, but this is the longest leadup to a set of reads based on who scumreads them ever.

if what you call waht
you and performer have posted as
"scumreads"

then sure

[droog]

odd that you like 306
now that ive discarded my utl read

want to add that the question pk asked
that ai 'dodged'
was a request about why there was a scumread
which ai has answered many times now

[droog]

actually wait
why does performer want thoughts on boonskiiies the lurker

[droog]

Let’s talk about this wagon on PK. Burning and Ras voted him in RVS, then AI jumps on the wagon, changing his vote from Ircher to PK “because he’s scum.” He later lists his reasons, where Keyser “feels like sheeping this” and jumps on too, at which point PK just gives up and selfvotes putting himself at L-2 because he doesn’t care and this game is dumb. Ircher now wants to lynch him based on his poor attitude (but isn’t doing anything about it?).

AI’s reasons for voting him aren’t bad. PK has been at him with nothing of substance, with no sense of real intent. Unless, of course, he was just trying to see what reaction he could get out of the guy that, at the time, wasn’t really contributing much either. If that’s the case, it worked. He definitely got a reaction.

What’s really bothering me is the selfvote. He says he doesn’t care about this game, and yet, he doesn’t want to let somebody who does sub in for him. At this point, we’re put in a crappy situation. If we Policy Lynch like Ircher is suggesting, he may flip town and we’re already down on day 1, which isn't a good start. If we don’t and he survives the night, he may just continue with his current level of participation (or lack thereof) and draining attitude.

I guess what I want to know, PK, is what exactly is your intent with the selfvote?

dont like this on gut
it feels like

trying to overthink to look town
like talking and all is good but
i just dont see anything valuable about the pk wagon to analyze this early

i guess ive done a 180 from this
pk is a drama-queen sure
but now that ive dealt with him i see why everyone
was up in arms about it at daystart

ist like ai said
his strats dont make sense as town strats
(why else vote yourself)

[droog]

Spoiler:

[droog]

tbf boon is a notorious lurker
i played a game with him where
he couldnt find the scum qt

[droog]

so its exactly like pisskop says
we cant pressure a lurker

that would be willy-nilly!

[droog]

(that was sarcasm)

[droog]

(that was sarcasm)

[droog]

Pisskop - His behavior is bound to attract unnecessary attn. Very suicidal as scum.

pisskop plays that way as both sides
why does this make a difference to you?

[droog]

I mean theres a reason my scum winrate is so high, and it isnt by being predictable.

oc, I have to question whether RC is voting me because old habits die hard or the admittedly crafty ScumC is snaeky.

pedit: Im sorry, who won that again?

And you

just

finished telling us bout how it was a newbe games. I simply taught them that scum can do anything.

Do just vote you for the hell of it every single game though? Because 1 of us does this.

3 guesses to figure out which of us two does it, RC.

Hey, my record of excellence speaks for itself.

I only have direct game with you being scum to measure you play to, so I don't have a firm read on you.

thats mini 1735

heres an iso of a game we played together
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

just because you think you play differently
doesnt mean that you do
its still the same peorson underneath

[droog]

took him 4 minutes too

[droog]

I promise to do actual things after work and play.

Blitz 11 - AI had in depth reads an analysis. He made judgements after publicly displaying his logic
Scum AI pushes people with the least amount of work possible. He calls people scum and finds reasons to scumread them, but his thought process is one-way and his intent to lynch is made clear without the fluff of overanalysis.

[droog]

no
you were town and voted me in lylo
when i had been your townread
and scumm hammered

[droog]

Who do you think Ircher has 'really pushed' so far this game?
Do you see Ircher as a hard push scum-hunter?

ive moved on from this
(and this was last night before his big case)

hes pushed me
and i think he pushed you and ai earlier

[droog]

a whole lot of hubris for one.

is that why you self-voted

[droog]

> invoking my name

[droog]

"pisskop (lynch him anyways)" which is hilarious because he acts no better.

can you tell me some of pk's reads

also youre not on my list
because i dont have enough of you

[droog]

I want to lynch AI today.
Hes been avoiding questions all week

which ones

[droog]

@mod

i voted for pisskop a while ago

[droog]

oops

[droog]

well despite piss
my strong scumread is still performer
his jump on my wagon was
naked opportunism

VOTE: performer

[droog]

dude pisskop
remember the games you hosted where I was town, and how I stated my strong stance against people who self vote??
what are you doing??

"im so opposed to self-voting
that ill kindly not do anything"

[droog]

boon's new entrance is interesting
i want to see where he heads


but i find it interesting that he changed his mind
about me and a few other points
wouldntve expected that from scum

[droog]

i could do a ras wagon
not my favorite but i
dont see anything good there

[droog]

So hey

I'm seeing some momentum for url lynch
But I was hearing a lot against performer
And now I'm not

[droog]

Does anyone have any reads on perf
Besides me

That is a hard scum read
That I've gone into a few times
That ofor find constant even as
My Irchir and Pk reads evolve

[droog]

everything performer has said on this page is towny

Can you re-read the posts that made you say this, and tell me if anything has changed?
Performer has escaped my radar recently (he was previously a town-lean).[/quote

the catalyst\
was performer sneaking onto my wagon when he did

ill take another look at my 390 read

[droog]

Droog shows good early scumhunting, namely in 306 where he talks about his dislike of UTL's analysis pos

i think its odd that people liked that
maybe ill reexamine utl
im not opposed to that lynch today

[droog]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE

Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras

Really? See this everyone. He is legitimately going from one to another. My wagon started picking up steam, he went to it, based off of 'lurksack' reasoning. Now he's going to Ras, the current wagon. Come on. This actually gives town cred to Ras for me right now.

fair point
i want time on irchir

[droog]

but irchirs case on me wasnt convenient

[droog]

Don't consider PL without any information coming out of it. Like, what would the point of PL be in this case? We would get absolutely no information, we would be

down another townie in the night phase

,

?

[droog]

because it sounds like you're saying I only put out surface reads.

i guess i wasnt clear enough

im challenging anyone to remember your reads
because they arent distinct
or memorable

i had to dig to find them again
and they were a few hundred posts
out of date

[droog]

why is tunneling town

[droog]

did a skim of rask's iso
its not great but nothing screams scummy
can someoe make the case again

[droog]

i dont want an ai lynch

[droog]

im seeing something similar
i think almost everyone has
the same opinion about utl and heat

is it the avatars?

[droog]

[

I'd still be more comfortable with an Ircher lynch tbh. Or even AI.

not sure where you got it from
but thats not e

[droog]

cool thanks

[droog]

not really sold on a rask linch
but im willing to hammer

intent to hammer

[droog]

tomorrow i want to look at
pk and performer

i could see myself learning toward utl aagin

i dont think it's axle/ai/keysey
and irchir is probably town

[droog]

No. I think he is town.

the only other wagon with support
is performer
and no one's sheeping my case

so what do you want instead

[droog]

droog's all over the place.

[droog]

when did utl become a scumread

[droog]

so you picked a vote on me
an active player

which ensures that ill want to hammer you
you do know that right

[droog]

eh thats bullshit
everyone's posted recently
activity overview m8

[droog]

so you picked a vote on me
an active player

which ensures that ill want to hammer you
you do know that right

Doesn't matter + If you hammer out of cowardice I expect you'll get called out on it tomorrow

if i was scum prepping your lynch
i wouldve started 'scumreading' you when it was convenienc

ive had a null read on you all game
why would i express indifference until now

where i look bad if i hammer and bad if i dont?

[droog]

found a third way.

yeah I am

happier

surer with my scum and town reads than i was.

what changed your mind abut performer?
is it too late to switch t othat?

[droog]

i dont think i follow your pref read
youre leaning scum because
of his assocs with rask?
or because he switched from irchir so easily?

[droog]

droog – in addition to his peculiar 485 regarding Boon, his bare agreement with AI's reads, and oddness of his posts, I've been scumreading droog.

His 493 reply to me was that UTL and Heat were moving to null for him, yet he thought one of them could still be scum. In the same post reply, he stated he agreed with AI more than he thought he would...which I think is a scummy excuse for creating fluff. Later on, he added the 1st 2 to his townreads, which caused me to null read him.

this is iioa

* droog posted 485
* "barely' agrees with ai
* has odd posts
* thinks one of utl/heat could be scum
* said he agrees with AI

except for the last one you dont provid
any reasons for your scumread

now im going to look through your other reads for iiao

[droog]

Rask - I was scum leaning Ras for his very brief and mysterious posts. He suddenly started engaging more and sounded more logical in his posts, so I changed my read on him. But his 784 post right before deadline (WITHOUT A VOTE), and pg 31 interaction, made me change my mind.

Deadline just around the corner and he put up a periphery post about Axle/Ircher/AI/Droog, on pg 32. His pg 31 didn't look right either - like he didn't care about or wanted to actively impede progress. After some deliberation, I changed my town lean on him, to scumread.
-----
massive – I don't l

most of this is iioa too
the basics are you
scumread rask for mysterious posts
move toward town when he posts more

[droog]

your null reads are iiao but those are null
so i dont hold those gaainst you

your town reads are analysis and look fine

[droog]

My read on massive has stayed the same since the stat of d1. His catch-up after the weekend , on pg 30, looks like empty posting. His 754 is alright, as he ended it with stating things that sound like typical town - sure on a few things, unsure on a few things. However, I'm still scumreading him as there's not enough substance from this slot.

this has some analyssis
but then you say that
your read may as well be null because
"there's not enough substance"

[droog]

all told
your only good thoughts come on town

considering you have 3 scumreads
and more you're willing to lynch
it seems to me like you dont have any good convictions
about any of them

[droog]

bedtime now
VOTE: rask

[droog]

i wouldve rather waited for some answers
but i cant guarantee ill be up before the phase
wouldve ended

[droog]

Back to catchup

[droog]

nrodge while i catch up

[droog]

heehee

performer is voting me and stringing up tge vaguest of cases

right?

[droog]

perf has ras as scum early

I townlean axle and townread Massive.

@pk this is interesting...I'm scum leaning massive instead of town reading him.
*yells at massive's apartment*
"Massive come out
you said I asked about weekend activity
but now it's the weekday!"

@Ircher I find it somewhat peculiar that you lean town on me. Although I'm beginning to lean town on you because of your reads list and the way you seem to be carefully going about things.
I think instead of a PL (which wastes a day's lynch if the target turns out town), you should rally people against who you scumread. Ras is looking scummier than Axle at the moment.
VOTE: Ras
-----
Between the pk vs AI and Ras vs Keys situations, I'm only townreading Keys, I'm scum leaning Ras for his very brief and mysterious posts, and the pk vs AI situation..

they both have experience with each other, they are both voting each other. I'm not certain who's town in that dilemma, or if both are even town.

but then he walks it back

AI's interaction with pk, regarding the pre-flip association between him & UTL, doesn't sound town to me.
Also, good catch, pk - in your post 482

@mod thank you for the timer extension because of our situation!

UNVOTE:

Doesn't look like Ras is the way to go . H

is defense looks more Townie than scum motivated.

I've added a new scumread to my list below.

Boon – his posts since his replace-in, have touched on Droog/pk/Ircher. His predecessor voted pk, Boon unvoted him. His posts look like he’s just standing on the periphery regarding those 3, and he’s not been involved since 2 days ago (based on my ISO of Boonskies).
@Keys what do you think about Boon? Remember the game where you and I were town and he ended up being scum with Titus? His play here appears to resemble that

-

this sounds exactly like scum walking back a bus

and when he hammers rask:

I've got Heat and Boon at null, Keys/UTL/Axle/Golden/Rask/pk at town.
VOTE: Ircher

K, caught up with the recent post from Rask on pg 32, and reviewed pg 31 interactions with Rask. It's deadline and the guy put up a periphery post about Axle/Ircher/AI/Droog, on pg 32. His pg 31 doesn't look good either, it's like he doesn't care about or wants to actively impede progress. Deadline is just around the corner, I'm changing my read on Rask again after this deliberation.

VOTE: Rask

what happened to that townread
and how rask looks townie in his defene?

[droog]

VOTE: performer

[droog]

if perf flips scum
i will definitely take another look at irchir

[droog]

misrep galore

droog – his 493 reply to me was that UTL and Heat were moving to null for him, yet he thought one of them could still be scum. That doesn’t follow neatly.[

why not
i think ive always suggested
that i only think there's 1 scum between the two of them

I

n the same post reply, he stated he agreed with AI more than he thought he would...which I think is a scummy excuse for creating fluff.

reads change
i did actual analysis and changed my mind about ai's reads
what your point

Later on, he added the UTL & Heat 2 to his townreads, which caused me to null read him.

now see
why is it when i change my opinion
thats scummy because it 'doesnt follow'
but when you move me to null for 2 townreads
it suddently 'follows'

Then his peculiar 485 regarding Boon,

his bare agreement with AI's reads,

you keep saying 'bare agreement'
but i dont know what you even begin to mean

[droog]

Also, what's up with the tunnelling @Boon

I mean, is it only me who sticks out to you? You seem to be so sure I'm scum that you pursue me at the exclusion of everyone else.

Trying to lynch someone you think is scum is good, but don't go overboard, there is ALWAYS that chance you are wrong.

Can we please lynch this? Like...I'm at the point where I'd rather vote Ircher over Performer. Icher isn't even keeping up with the thread, or he'd know that I'm voting someone other than him.

youre tempting me
i want performer first though
im willing to look again tomorrow
can we compromise?

[droog]

what happened to that townread
and how rask looks townie in his defene?

The thing is, he didn't look Townie again, so I voted him again.

axle is right
and you say my reads 'dont follow'

[droog]

the 'why would scum kill ai' point is valid
its one id like to see boonskies answer

however, did scum get n0 actions?
its plausible that the neopolitan saw ai was a joat
and they killed him solely on that

[droog]

fair enough
though scum would probably shoot 7/10 times
if they had a pr to shoot

massive whats happening
where are you thinking of voting today

[droog]

Speaking of NK, I have another theory on the reason AI was killed, but Boon would probably just use it as more reason to lynch me...

let's hear it
boon is pretty set on you so
thats not a very good reason to hold back

[droog]

keyseys posts are fun to read
easily still my top townread

[droog]

irchir's theory on why ai was killed
is plausible

that combined with keysey's point
on when irchir joined the rask wagon

makes it very unlikely that irchir is scum
boon you have a tall order to peddle
if you want to keep arguing that

[droog]

@Massive
Yes, but your iso is extremely small (again 2% of the entire game), and none of your posts are extremely long. Most of them are decent length, but tossing meta aside, it seems to me like you are trying to avoid pressure. By not posting much, you make fewer mistakes. The fewer mistakes you make, the less likely you will be suspected. And, as scum, that's exactly what scum want. Sure, it isn't alignment indicative, but it is not fun to play with people who post so little. Furthermore, it is extremely hard to discern the alignment of people like you due to the low quantity of posts.

massive says this is normal for him
so can you explain why it is scummy
in this particular instance?

youve only shown why small postcounts
are scummy in general

[droog]

Droog, what I meant by bare agreement is like this: "I like AI's posts so he's town."

if someone has similar reads to me
they are on the same wavelength
likelier to be town

[droog]

then why arent you voting

[droog]

^

[droog]

hang on hang on hang on

why the risistance to performer

im am not seeing any defenses of performer
only the irchir attack sideshow

who thinks performer is town

]

[droog]

keysey
i think its great that you read a lot
theres a lot of content from your slot
and im not trying to be pushy
or trigger happy

but why for all your content
dont you have a vote

[droog]

i did not understand what you just said
try again?

[droog]

I need to sub out
Hospital
Apoloh

[droog]

good game
of all the games i had to sub out of
this was the one i regretted missing most

[droog]

you are not a good player. you're literally the worst player who thinks that they're good that I've ever laid my eyes on.

dw he hsays this abotu everyone

[droog]

@droog

I'm glad that you're back! I hope that you're feeling better. I would have included you on the dead thread for discussion if you'd asked.

too bad that wouldve been great
thanks, things have really gone well over here
glad your game went off without major problems
will have to play another one

thanks for hosting

[droog]

God no

[droog]

I take it back
Agree with rc's approach to hunting

[droog]

Thanks axle
You too
Would love to play you again

Things are fixed here and staying fixed

[droog]

You appear to be failing at giving reasons, right here right now? and you dont even have scum PM.

Because giving reasons and not giving reasons is

100%

non-alignment indicative.

true but
not giving your reasons mostly helps scum
when a case is just
"he just IS scum"
even if its a correct push
it hurts town

[droog]

If you want to policy ignore my reads no matter how correct they are because of the person they're coming from I can't stop you.

nobody knows youre correct at the time

[droog]

i miss cop
no one runs setups with cop anymore
there are a lot of interesting ways to balance cop
without immediately degrading into a setup based on one role