Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Joshz]

Aw I was excited to play with Empoof

[Joshz]

VOTE: loopdan

[Joshz]

I don't get the references but someone hosted a Jojo based oc game on another forum recently

[Joshz]

I asked because the first thing Narancia does upon meeting Giorno is ask him for his age, and he then says the he is better than Giorno for being two years older.

Josh, again, why the naked vote?

My votes will rotate between idlers until I actually get a scum read (: I know it's barely been any time but might as well rv the afks if we are rving

[Joshz]

Lol sorry for not noticing while glancing on mobile during RVS?

[Joshz]

Isn't this your 2nd game, HM?

yeah

Why are asking about how RVS works?

because last time when i did random vote the guy that i was voting for became convinced that i was scum. He was two lynches or one lynch away from being lynched, didn't know, and basically for the rest of the short lived game he was convinced that i was scum, which i wasn't (Does this count as a spoiler/giving away too much info?)

Okay, second game, still don't know what to do, as evidenced by the last game.

RVS are the first things to build reads on. For example, my only read atp not null is human sequencer lean scum.


Was that guy town? Seems like awful town gameplay if he tunneled you the whole game

[Joshz]

Ah it's still going on, we should probably stop talking about it.

Hi human sequencer. I'd like you to explain any possible scum motivation for my vote at all. Random voting with no explanation, then giving what looks like a false reason, why would a scum do that? There's no logic or basis in that push and it's clearly not going anywhere. Jackel is just trying to pressure me so idc but you trying to build a wagon makes you look bad as fuck to me, you're jumping on the opportunity to lynch a townie wayy too quickly if you're scum and not just noob.

Unvote
VOTE: human sequencer

[Joshz]

I'm not gonna lie. I vote whoevers being v the least active at the beginning. The fact I missed his vote is annoying but w.e

[Joshz]

@Hellfire Missile Do not talk about ongoing games.
That is, any game that is currently going on, whether you're alive in them, dead in them, or even never played in them.
You can post about them as soon as they end in a victory, loss or draw.
What you just posted is violating the rules. I hope the mod will treat you kindly for it, because it was clearly just a misunderstanding.

Scum motivation is that scum don't need to read the thread because they already know who the scum are.
Nobody said your reason was false, thanks for confirming for us though.
Nobody said I was trying to build a wagon, but even if I was, a wagon is what we need to develop reads at this point. The fact that you're trying to use that to paint me in a scum light is very suspicious.
Even more suspicious is that you claim that I'm going for a lynch this early in the game. This isn't the case. You're misrepping the thread to make me look worse when I never even implied I was gunning to lynch you.

"Random voting with no explanation, then giving

what looks like

a false reason, why would a scum do that?"
It does look false considering he had posted...?

You started building a wagon on me. I understand that isn't going for the final vote, but it's a start. You aren't "going for a lynch" but you're starting the wagon. Maybe I should restate my stance: this game has just started. We are now our of rv stage, meaning regardless of me being a leading wagon at the very least the game is now moving so I'll call that a win. At this stage very little has happened, and your vote seems exactly like what scum would do. You were a very light scum read but that post actually increased it. "Scum motivation is that scum don't need to read the thread"???? You must be a pretty fucking awful scum if you don't read the thread, Idek what to say to this it literally made me chuckle a bit. You're actually the one trying to paint me in scum light with that whole post, so ignoring the hypocrisy you've gone from a slight scum read to a stronger one atp.

[Joshz]

None of that is true. And my only motive with my first post was to build on the slightest thing to get discussion going. The fact you replied in the way you have and did just makes you look worse to me.

Where the fuck is the ic btw

[Joshz]

helllo

Hi

[Joshz]

Confused by the question but he's my biggest scum read atm. That said, it's off of weak reasoning and I'm aware of that but the game hasn't progressed enough for me to have a bigger scum read so for now he's the best I've got.

I'm not setting an avi sorry I've gone over why in my other game bit w.e

[Joshz]

Of course I noticed Empoof got replaced, we played together on another forum and his name was the only name I recognized... I'm actually regretting signing up for this shit call this an ate if you want but this logic is actually making me want to slap someone

I still don't even understand where this logic is coming from and nobody answered. What. Purpose. Would. Scum. Have. For. Doing. That. You keep calling not noticing he posted scummy yet it makes no sense... I don't even know how to argue here this is so fucking stupid

[Joshz]

Like I want to clear my head but i dont even understand how you can pass this as scummy, it's different than normal where I can at least contemplate why people are scum reading me. I'm so lost rn

[Joshz]

@loopdan
re: my questions to Psyche
I think I gave pretty good reasons in my post for why I'm asking these questions to the IC. If you don't believe my reasons are legitimate or have questions about them then you should bring those up before trying to establish an ulterior motive. Any question to the IC can be construed as "oh I'm scum and just trying to figure out how to fool town" - I think you have to do a little more work than just saying I

could

have some other motive. Especially since the purpose of these newbie games is to learn and I'm just trying to get up to speed on mafia theory here for future games.

Also with regard to me not wanting to get lynched: everyone has a motive to not get lynched, not just scum. Every mislynch hurts town's win condition so if I'm town I'm gonna try just as hard as I can to not get lynched (

short of lying

), right?

re: my comments on Joshz/Human Sequencer
It was more I wasn't convinced that either of them were acting scummy (for reasons I gave in the post) and didn't want to get the thread derailed with an irrelevant argument when we could be doing more constructive stuff.

@Psyche: Thanks for the comments! I think the stuff about how town should do better than random chance is especially interesting. It seems to come down to a lot of subjective or hard to codify rules which is what got me interested in mafia in the first place.

Townies can definitely lie lol

[Joshz]

@HowardRoark re: OMGUS disclaimer
I felt it was bad form for a newbie game to start with an "OMG U Suck" vote, considering they are looked down upon.

Josh, lying as town tends to be detrimental, especially when you're trying not to be mislynched. Town shouldn't have a reason to lie, not counting withholding roles.

I don't agree. Town can lie. I don't know all the roles ms uses so I can't give specific examples but it's absolutely acceptable to lie at times, most commonly about false claiming and also baiting mafia to night target you. You can also situationally do things such as lie about reads to gauge reactions,. Then again, this probably isn't helpful to noobies so I digress.

[Joshz]

@loopdan
re: my questions to Psyche
I think I gave pretty good reasons in my post for why I'm asking these questions to the IC. If you don't believe my reasons are legitimate or have questions about them then you should bring those up before trying to establish an ulterior motive. Any question to the IC can be construed as "oh I'm scum and just trying to figure out how to fool town" - I think you have to do a little more work than just saying I

could

have some other motive. Especially since the purpose of these newbie games is to learn and I'm just trying to get up to speed on mafia theory here for future games.

Also with regard to me not wanting to get lynched: everyone has a motive to not get lynched, not just scum. Every mislynch hurts town's win condition

so if I'm town

I'm gonna try just as hard as I can to not get lynched (short of lying), right?

re: my comments on Joshz/Human Sequencer
It was more I wasn't convinced that either of them were acting scummy (for reasons I gave in the post) and didn't want to get the thread derailed with an irrelevant argument when we could be doing more constructive stuff.

@Psyche: Thanks for the comments! I think the stuff about how town should do better than random chance is especially interesting. It seems to come down to a lot of subjective or hard to codify rules which is what got me interested in mafia in the first place.

so if I'm town

SS is pinging me hard.

This isn't a scum slip lol

[Joshz]

How? Or is that another example of something that this site views as scummy fsr (I've learned from my normal game this site has some weird views on some things)

[Joshz]

Like, I understand the basis, but really I know I'm town but none of the rest of you do, so for the sake of argument saying if im townie allows you to answer without technically tring him.

[Joshz]

Unvote
VOTE: alphabetman[/unvote]

[Joshz]

I'm retarded sorry

VOTE: alphabet

[Joshz]

This site's user control panel nit your computer rofl

[Joshz]

Ah

[Joshz]

Cmon man, there's a difference between being a noobie and trying to adjust your computers visual settings

[Joshz]

I say yall and I live in toronto

[Joshz]

Unvote
VOTE: howard

Look at his iso. First of all, I take the lack of reply as agreement that my wagon is fucking awful. He is putting an easy vote that feigns involvement and asks 2 mediocre questions. That's it. He's an se, and that's all we have from him? 2 posts and really only 1, which isn't even a good 1? Come on.

[Joshz]

Hey so I'm in class right now but I'll make a longer post later today about people's concerns about me when I have more time to read through the thread. Is there anything aside from the word choice argument that I haven't addressed already? Or any other questions y'all have for me?

Don't make a longer post about people's concerns, make a longer post about the rest of the game. This isn't sobolev TV, convince us you're town through scum hunting, not through defensive play.

[Joshz]

If you guys want to keep building your awful wagon on me I can't stop you and this hasnt been the most enjoyable game so whatever but if anyone hammers me before I get a chance to post lynch them. Idc who it is. They are really scum. And so no noobie can take the copout: I have 2 votes on me right now. It is 5 to hammer. Also, the fact Rai "is going to tell you why I'm scum" is not only bad for the projected confidence but also because he hasn't actually placed a vote on me despite me being not only his strongest but also his only scum read, which is very off.

[Joshz]

And why none of you feel compelled to reply to my Howard post is beyond me because there really hasn't been much to go off of itg

[Joshz]

I do have reasonable experience, from high ranked tos and a couple games on another site. Which is why I can say my wagon is horrible without any bias and every townie on it should feel bad for being on it. And yea, I do think if I am a townie is null. It's true; only you know your alignment ad a townie. Anyone who calls that a scum slip looks worse to me because it's not.

[Joshz]

There's probably only one scum out of you 3. I doubt scum would buddy this early with only 2 of them. You seem the most likely. It's terrible because... everything about it is terrible. The logic behind it, the fact it even exists. There's nothing about it that makes it smart town play, meaning it's probably scum driven. However, I consider jackel the least likely out of you 3 to be scum.

Why the fuck am I the only focus btw can the rest of you like start posting without being prompted??? Psyche, you're the IC, what are your reads? The most experienced should take on a town lead role, no? Assuming you are town of course which is a null read for me right now.

[Joshz]

Unvote
VOTE: howard

Look at his iso. First of all, I take the lack of reply as agreement that my wagon is fucking awful. He is putting an easy vote that feigns involvement and asks 2 mediocre questions. That's it. He's an se, and that's all we have from him? 2 posts and really only 1, which isn't even a good 1? Come on.

I disagree that his questions were mediocre. The game had just started, and nothing had really happened.

I also think your freak-out about being hammered, when you only had two votes on you, could be alignment telling.

I have a third one from the sub, which is 2 shy of hammer, and I've had more. I'm not freaking out. I have accepted that I'm not going to enjoy this game. And psyche, yes, I have, along with tos. So I regret signing up for a newbie game. I had... different expectations. Especially from the "semi-experienced" people. I'm enjoying my normal game more so it's probably just a newbie game issue and not a site one.

[Joshz]

I don't view it as an overreaction because I understand people voting for me normally but not this game. I expected... semi experience, I honestly can't tell the difference between you and the newbies. And the IC hasn't been very productive either. Is that just what games in this section are like...? The pace this thread is moving is also very slow and annoying, and the fact I'm basically the singular topic of discussion ft. occasional other things.

[Joshz]

There isn't even discussion to get reads from besides the josh show

[Joshz]

Which is because everyone is completely focused on me and mafia has no need to try and redirect it

[Joshz]

Joshz's poss:
20 Random Votes without any reason.

23 Ignores Jackel's question.

31 Still ignores the question.

40 OMGUS'es Human.

42 "Random Voting with no Explanation" Hypocrisy! In my books, Hypocrite equals Scum.

67 More like regret because you got caught so easily?

85 Saying he's town because he knows he is town or something like that. By saying you're town, It doesnt even decrease a slight sus on you.

142 Why do you try to ignore the fact that i said i skimmed through the pages. I was keeping my vote till I post my thoughts on you. And I didnt want to get on a wagon without any reason.

147 Saying you're town is indeed a scum tell in the forums i have played. Townies usually dont have to tell it. And Why are you so annoyed with the wagon on you? And It's funny how you say "I am the only one being focused" because Space is under sus too. And Your OMGUSings are so cute.

153 Wow, Just wow. I am not a newbie as well but i am not regretting playing newbie games so far. And what did you expected? You are being scummy and suspicious af. So, When you are on a wagon, You are making the players here faulty.

135 And what do you think you have contributed or achieved so far in the game? Nothing productive at all. Why are you so hypocritical? This is like you are asking for the game to speed up the pace but you are yourself doing nothing other than talking about it. And The same "only Josh Show" might be the reason for not much speedy pace for everyone.

After all his posts reading, He has OMGUS'ed, shown hypocrisy few times, complaining about the slow pace and players and not doing anything productive himself.

Conclusion: He's either a extremely, annyoing/annoyed and un-helpful townie or a Scum and i guess he being scum has higher possibilities. Even if he is a town, What good will he do just by complaining and wasting town's time from getting wider range of sus list?

VOTE: Joshz

Will start answering few questions pointed to me and will try to post few reads on others soon if i can.

When I flip town lynch Howard first, then this guy. I'm only vanilla so you aren't going to lose the game by hammering me. The annual official game just started on another forum anyways so idc at all anymore.

Or if you guys want to stop being fucking morons that'd be cool but I give up on you at this point. Haha Rai bet you're gonna quote this post and call it garbage scum ate. Fuck off with your garbage post filled with autism.

[Joshz]

Also, I know I haven't played well, I'm still left completely stumped if im the idiot for not seeing why people scum read me for what to me is nothing, or if you're the idiots. Nothing else at all has happened in this game because a townie became the single tunnels vision focal point of everything, and mafia has no reason the change it so it's just placating on me. I'm not gonna sign up for a newbie game again. A bit of advice to everyone else: psyche is not lock town. Don't assume because he's the IC that he can't still win for scum. He has given just about no game related content, just helped people, which I'm sure those of you who asked for it appreciate but it's NAI. The fact he's produced absolutely nothing makes him slightly scummier in my eyes. I'd recommend town inspect role check him tonight and call him out tomorrow, it's worth outing yourself if he is scum becauss otherwise he's possibly going to steamroll the game, and if he's town don't say anything because you have no need to.

[Joshz]

And if the inspect role clears him the most experienced person being conf town until he dies is cool

[Joshz]

lol
can we get an actual player in this slot plz^

@rai stop tunneling the low hanging fruit

jackel stop lurkaderping

Why don't you go read through the thread, remove every post either by or about me, and see what you're left with.

[Joshz]

I can respect the scum who turned me into a wagon because I made myself an easy target. I can't respect the townies who fell for it, though we won't know who was who til the end for the game.

[Joshz]

But I don't want to live due to spewing ate, I do not like my gameplay at all this game, I would be mad at josh if I was someone else in this game (ignoring I would never have let the discussion be so tunnelled).

And yes psyche, your help has been much more significant than the SEs. I agree with that part. Doesn't excuse you as a player in the game too though.

[Joshz]

Also I OMGUS a lot sorry that's my personality lol its nothing personal against anyone I'm sure ur all great people and we share interests since we're both playing mafia. It's purely about this game so if I call u an idiot or a moron or anything else don't take it personally even though I'll probably get warned for it because that seems to be the environment on this site.

[Joshz]

[quote="In post 189, Human Sequencer"
I think he knows how to play, just not how to play here
site meta is probs really different where he comes from

[/quote]

[Joshz]

If I had to pick a scum pair rn it's Howard or psyche with Sobolev or Rai (but note: I don't think Howard AND Rai are scum).

[Joshz]

It was more directed at the noobies than you/the other ses, not sure if it happens here but a in a lot of scenarios beginners can start to look at the boost experienced person as the "God role" and trust them a lot more than they should. Especially in situations like here where that God role is being very helpful on a non game related level.

[Joshz]

Gut mostly, if I had a real case I'd post it

[Joshz]

You should almost always have your vote on someone. It doesn't need to be your biggest scum read: compromising, wanting to lure them into a sense of security for whatever reason, reaction testing, many various other reasons can all stop you from voting your biggest scum read but as a general rule of thumb have a vote on someone.

[Joshz]

Doesn't me being the only one without an avi make it easy to follow me

[Joshz]

Did anyone notice how rai was completely confident I was scum ("I will tell you why joshz is scum" along with a post by post analysid) but changed his mind when the wagon was gone?

[Joshz]

Well, we can see his reasons tomorrow.

[Joshz]

Becuase I don't think both you and him are scum. I doubt you'd buddy that much d1. My wagon probably had a single scum on it

[Joshz]

Unvote

VOTE: Hellfire Missile

[Joshz]

G u t : )

[Joshz]

Ironic.

Continue doing it.

[Joshz]

According to my experiences in mafia games, Scums rarely get replaced and a 2 replacement of a role is rare for scums. So, The conclusion should be I can be said a near-confirmed townie but I dont expect it fully. Just said it.

Scum replaces out of Newbie games all the time. More often than town if a newbie player rolls it. The circumstances of the replace out matters a lot. I see no reason why your slot being replaced twice gives it town-cred.

Err. I've replaced into a game about 3-5 times in this site and In all those games, I was replaced as a town. And in the other site, Mafias are rarely, i mean very rarely gets replaced.

If I had to pick a scum pair rn it's Howard or psyche with Sobolev or Rai (but note: I don't think Howard AND Rai are scum).

Give reasons with your accusation, as well. Or is it because i was onto you and had voted you?

@DayahaangRai: The lazy was asking for a summary with such a short read.

I use it in every games. For instance: Check: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=700. This game has finished. And i was town that game and i still use it every game. That's not enough reason for FoS'ing me. You can even spectate the current games going where in every games, I've asked for the summary.

DayRai might have tried to misrepresent Sobolev by quoting her as saying that she was overly defensive as

scum

, not town.

For full disclosure I just looked back at my original post and realized I left it open as to whether I was overly defensive as town or scum. I still think that this means that DR saying me being defensive is a scumtell is misrepresenting my views, however, although it could easily be accidental.

Aside from that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Although I don't necessarily think that loopdan has shown less emotion than any other people in the game excepting Joshz.

@Psyche/SEs: General theory question. At what point do you think your suspicions of someone should move over to an actual vote on that person? Do you think that you should just always be voting for who you're most suspicious of at the time or do you think that there could be times when you have slight scum reads on a couple people but still aren't voting?

It was a mis-read. I read "when accused of being mafia" or something like that as "when accused if i am mafia".


The meta here and meta in the other site i play seem very different that everyone here in newbie games start sus'ing me even if i am in my normal town playstyle. OMGUS and Hypocrisy are all suspicious there and These things are the only scum-tells that can be found there. I had already have enough of the sus in me in the previous games but I still thought of giving it a last attempt at such games.

I give up. Sorry, but the meta here is so much intolerable for me. I'll get back to the "one game at a time" thing in the previous site i played. Even if i am town, Every one sus me for being a town-me. I am not being salty but i'm used to the meta i play with.

Requesting a replacement!

And I can assure you all that the replacement which will be taking me is townie indeed.

You can't seriously be saying you are mad because town you is getting scum read here???? I'm from another forum and am having troubles adapting here but you still look just as scummy to me. And I did give reasons you twat, gut. Why are you self metaing and saying you're auto town?? Hello? And for the record the last noc I was in scum subbed out day 2, his sub won them the game. So stop with the bullshit rhetoric. There are lots of reasons to sub and every real one should apply to both scum and town. I know a major annual game started on smogon and that's probably why Empoof subbed out, it's completely NAI.

[Joshz]

Guess I'm not the vi

[Joshz]

You all are just fucking idiots.Nothing else.


Human Sequencer and Joshz are scums!


Just wanted to tell you this before i leave this idiot site.

Come back after the game ends. Not because an asshole like yourself is a good community member but because I want you to see my green. Idk about human sequencer but I hope he's green too just to spite you.

Btw this isn't the most reliable but I'm gonna town read Rai slot (I say slot because he's being subbed). I don't see scum being this stupid lol

[Joshz]

Want me to be highly valuable?

Locust is lock town to me.

[Joshz]

joshz/psyche scumteam would be absolutely hilarious

My first forum mafia game I subbed in as scum day 3 and the 2nd of 4 scum got lynched so it was just me and the most experienced player (not a newbie game) and I won in lylo.

Anybody voting locust: get off or you're scum. He's townie. One of the guys on his wagon is scum. Psyche could definitely be the lurker scum partner. Notice how a lot of locusts wagon was my wagon too? Jackel was early on both so on one hand I'd like to lynch jackel but on the other hand Hellfire Missile voting me because I'm calm is ?????????????? like dude did you not read the massive ates????????? plus Jackel's vote on me seemed slightly better than the others

[Joshz]

Seriously. If you want to suggest a me/locust scum team go for it. Otherwise unlynch.

[Joshz]

i doubt it's alignment indicative considering he's the IC

Maybe nai but the IC being afk is definitely a part of the deadness.

[Joshz]

joshz/psyche scumteam would be absolutely hilarious

My first forum mafia game I subbed in as scum day 3 and the 2nd of 4 scum got lynched so it was just me and the most experienced player (not a newbie game) and I won in lylo.

Anybody voting locust: get off or you're scum. He's townie. One of the guys on his wagon is scum. Psyche could definitely be the lurker scum partner. Notice how a lot of locusts wagon was my wagon too? Jackel was early on both so on one hand I'd like to lynch jackel but on the other hand Hellfire Missile voting me because I'm calm is ?????????????? like dude did you not read the massive ates????????? plus Jackel's vote on me seemed slightly better than the others

ates?

also too many fucking ? marks

also prove that you know he's townie

note: don't do G u T because it doesn't help.

How the fuck can you prove anything day 1, and gut does help if you have a good gut rofl

He's not scum. I can just tell. I've gone back and reread Rai's content: there is 0 way scum plays like that and locust has not done anything scummy to change that in my eyes. So the only reason you should ever be voting him now is if you are ready scum or if you think me and him are the scum team. I suggest either arguing that or unvoting. This helps poe substantially. Go check ate out on the wiki if you don't know what it means.

[Joshz]

So one guy is sring me for not showing emotion and another for too much. Good plan. The lynch pool today imo is Hellfire Missile, Howard, Psyche and jackel. I'm fairly confident both scum are in that pool.

[Joshz]

Hm is not as newbie as he is trying to look

[Joshz]

You can tell if you genuinely look at his behaviour. Iso him.

[Joshz]

So one guy is sring me for not showing emotion and another for too much. Good plan. The lynch pool today imo is Hellfire Missile, Howard, Psyche and jackel. I'm fairly confident both scum are in that pool.

Isn't that like almost all the people who voted for you?

Psyche defended me and you didn't vote me until after I voted you.

Btw, if you're scum that clears jackel, Howard, and psyche to me. I don't see scum you playing like this with an se/IC as a partner because they'd give you actual advice and even guide you, whereas all you've done this game is ask a billion questions and scum read the guy scum reading you. I don't think you're an expert, I think you're a person that's played a few times elsewhere who rolled scum and is now acting like a complete noob to throw off the scent. Your partner is likely Sobolev if you are scum. If you aren't scum, stop treating mafia like a book. Day 1 especially is a glorified guessing game, there's no genuine information. Stop trying to make a joke about me using gut reads because that's all day 1 really is. Gut reads and scum trying to influence those gut reads off of themselves.

[Joshz]

OK. I already said I wasn't buying it based on his language usage.

I thought maybe you'd uncovered incontrovertible evidence.

Nah no evidence, just a feeling. @ hm: your general attitude and language as my above post explains.

[Joshz]

stop lurking and start posting everyone gdi

[Joshz]

It is trying to find scum, it's basic PoE rofl I can't believe I have to explain that of all things.

[Joshz]

Vote Count 1.7

Look to the obelisk. We don’t know where it came from, but it’s attracting a lot of cats.

Locust (3)

: Jackel98, Human Sequencer, Sobolev Space

Hellfire Missile (2)

: Joshz, Locust

Human Sequencer (1)

: HowardRoark

Joshz (1)

: Hellfire Missile

Not Voting

: Psyche, Sobolev Space, Loopdan

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-11-27 08:47:44)

Rofl why does anyone buy the supernoob crap

[Joshz]

I don't think you want my thoughts. I was the first person to bring psyche up though lol

If I do get lynched, or night killed,

everyone remember that locust is town and do not be coerced into a mislynch

How is saying locust is guaranteed town not basic PoE like he tried to suggest it's not pro town play I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of brick walls. But hm is definitely the lynch today and I'm not settling for and other lynch so if you want to try and sell that as tunnel vision go right ahead this game has done worse. He's at best a liability in lylo since scum is never killing him if he's town, and any townie should be able to see he's faking.

[Joshz]

@Joshz-- Please explain how locust is guaranteed town.

He is town. I have nothing to cite. He is town and I know I'm not wrong.

What me saying this means is that he should NEVER BE lynched unless I am both killed and flip red (which, while not true, will happen at some point with how amazing this game is). This is because there is nothing to gain from his flip. If it's green that doesn't clear me and if it were to be red it wouldn't even help a ton. So what needs to happen if you want to lynch him is to lynch me first, pand once you see my green flip any doc we have needs to be on him. I don't even think his wagon has to be scum made but it's a bad wagon, almost as bad as mine. The best wagon this game is Psyche but I don't think policy lynching him is a good idea. Sobolev and HM both have merits but if you isolate HM it just seems really really fake and empty and frankly brushing that off and ignoring the topic makes him seem all the better to lynch.

[Joshz]

Well lynching the IC for scum is great because the theoretical best player is gone right out of the gate, and in this case lynching psyche doesn't even give town much info.

@howard sorry that's how I type lol nothing against hm or anyone (bar maybe rai) as a person. And hm, lylo means town needs to lynch scum or they lose. Mylo means they need to not lynch a townie. So basically in Mylo you can afford a no lynch, whereas in lylo you can't.

I don't expect a mafia flip today anyways though. We need 5 out of 7 townies on a mafia wagon for that to happen. If one of those townies is afk (Psyche) we need 5 of 6. Considering how this game has been I don't expect townies to be thst organized so what will probably happen is a mislynch. I've never played a 9 person game and it seems more mafia sides with a smaller pool imo.

Jackel is a weird case. I believe he's town and town read him. However, he's been on every wagon that I don't like and ND he just feels different. So I'm conflicted.

What I think needs to happen is a lynch on someone who hasn't been wagoned, probably Loopdan though ideally Howard from my perspective. Mafia is in control of this game and that's how we will take control back.

[Joshz]

I don't see how either are the towniest

[Joshz]

But when whatever wagon you guys go for ends in a town flip I'll chuckle

[Joshz]

I'm asking town to stop getting walked on

[Joshz]

I'm asking town to stop getting walked on

You keep talking like you are the only sighted person in a group of blind men.

So who are the two scum?

That's just my typography.

[Joshz]

If we lynched you and you flipped scum I could see a convincing argument for Sequencer being your partner.

Please elaborate.

Two reasons: 1. When Locust first posted sequencer and I both voted him pretty quickly but he only accused me of being scummy for this. Seems he was more threatened by me than Sequencer. 2. DayRai made long posts accusing Joshz and Sequencer but the Sequencer post felt a lot more contrived and less genuine to me. I think DayRai might've known he looked suss so distanced himself from his buddy knowing the wagon wouldn't get any traction.

A day 1 mislynch on the IC slot is basically the best case scenario for scumteam

Explain please.

So I'm assuming that if you replace into an IC slot you also have to be IC but I'm not sure if thats true. All else being equal, you would expect the IC to be the best player in the game meaning good lynch for scum if they're town. All I'm saying is we should give Psyche the chance to explain himself or get replaced before lynching him.

Anyway since Sequencer asked for everyone's list:

Don't lynch

Joshz
HR

Null-ish

Loopdan
Sequencer

D2 candidates

Jackel

Lynch 'em

Psyche
HM
Locust

Don't lynch me but lynch the guy I'm saying is lock town... huh?

[Joshz]

All I'm saying is we should give Psyche the chance to explain himself or get replaced before lynching him.

Nobody has said anything contrary.

Lynch 'em
Psyche
HM
Locust

You do realize Locust's predecessor (DayRai) claimed cop, right? We are not lynching Locust Today.

This claim is nai and should not be a factor, js

[Joshz]

Josh, being town doesn't make anyone a foolproof player. Seven of us are town, but that doesn't mean seven of us know the rest. If it did, PoE, town wins.

,
What?

[Joshz]

If jackel and human were both scum I highly doubt they'd buddy this much day 1. Human is more copying jackel than anything

[Joshz]

If jackel and human were both scum I highly doubt they'd buddy this much day 1. Human is more copying jackel than anything

[Joshz]

If jackel and human were both scum I highly doubt they'd buddy this much day 1. Human is more copying jackel than anything

[Joshz]

Um thank u lag

[Joshz]

because i've drastically changed my style compared to how i played in that game
you'll also notice me constantly saying 'lets not lynch anybody yet', which is the opposite of my viewpoint now

Missed this one. It may well have been a mistake to point that out then. Your play style is drastically different yet you won that game and lived to the end. Why change up something that's working?

No good player will ever have the same playstyle across many games. Mafia is a game that requires adapting and failing to do so results in tells. Alternatively you can be one of the people that plays the same regardless of alignment but those people get mislynched and policy lynched a fair bit. A guy who guys by thetwinmasters is a good example of that from another site, who generally just asks random questions and random votes, and the result is an unreadable person who typically gets scum read. I prefer the adapting strategy though.

[Joshz]

@Joshz: The problem is that "theoretical best player" has been disproved with 15+ pages. I've never thought about it from the 5 of 7 townies needed to lynch scum perspective. I would wager that 4 of 7 plus 1 scum is also likely. I don't find a town lynch chuckle worthy (393).

@Jackel98: How would scum know there were power roles?

Bad presentation, my "Hmmmm . . ." list is closer to lynch today than not. The

Psyche

slot moves to this list; we will get a replacement and there will be less confusion than the Locust slot. I'm moving Joshz to that list as well.

It hasn't been disproven. The IC is supposed to be the most experienced person in the game. I highly highly doubt a scum IC would idle as their strat because that goes against what I am feeling is the purpose of this section (teaching new people rather than having a good highly competitive game). So him idling to this level is NAI. I already told you, I was the first to point out his inactivity. But a psyche lynch today is a mistake. When we get his replacement we can reevaluate.

[Joshz]

I find a town lynch chuckle worthy and I will find my lynch chuckle worthy if it happens.


Otherwise, heres a good lynch. Hellfire Missile was baiting scum to wagon. Seeimg as nobody wagomed it, that makes him more likely scum in my eyes, but his flip doesnt rly give info. Ideally loopdan is the lynch because i think hes scum playing well preying on a disfunctional town. Jackel is the only other lynch that should be considered imo. I'm going to finally accept this is the newbie section and avoid lynching a newbie because they could probably use the experience. Since the IC told me I am basically being too much of a dick earlier, I don't know what I can say other than that.
VOTE: loopdan

[Joshz]

Yea thought about it more and Xalxe can we please have an extension until like 48 hours after the new IC subs in? Lacking a player is bad enough but the IC being gone is bkakqkticiwoow.

[Joshz]

So whoevers in that slot gets a free bye?

[Joshz]

You aren't grtting lynched don't worry about it

[Joshz]

I'm willing to support a jackel lynch too fwiw even though my vote is on loopdan rn

[Joshz]

Dead thread again classic

[Joshz]

VOTE: Hellfire missile

[Joshz]

So basically this is locust vs jackel since locust has essentially claimed cop. I'm leaning towards a jackel lynch because tracker Is less of a loss than cop, plus I suspected jackel far more to begin with.

Investigate the IC, but unless jackel is the rb'r it won't matter.
VOTE: jackel

[Joshz]

Ok so it's a doc and mafia roleblocked game

[Joshz]

Obviously locust post an inno if you did somehow inspect someone but idt that'll have happened

VOTE: hm

[Joshz]

I disagree with the psyche read. I don't ever see an IC just idling to the point of being subbed simply due to a role.

[Joshz]

7 alive 4 to lynch

[Joshz]

So one of Howard, Hellfire, Sobolev, huntress, and human are scum

I'll give it a better look when I'm home from school

[Joshz]

Reading through Jackel's content I disagree. You (human sequencer) were his only town read.

Rn I consider hm the best lynch, the other 4 of you are even to me and what will probably happen if he's town is I'll be killed tonight and locust will be roleblocked

[Joshz]

word that better plspls

so you are saying huntress is town?

[Joshz]

we lynched scum mostly because of me imo tho thats probably partially ego bias

that means psyche cannot be scum. even if you were lying and were scum that would make psyche town anyways. im townie, and i dont think anyone will argue that. youre not 100% town but you ARE 98% town and definitely close enough to locked for ow

hellfire
human
howard
sobolev
you


thats where im at rn

[Joshz]

my issue w.you is how the fuck you got a read today like HUH

[Joshz]

the huge risk that should have happened is doctor protecting loopdan as he was the obvious kill

i agree with huntress. they probably didnt realize they could use both actions. this means the scum is probably noob is probably hm.

and yes,

if you are a pr claim now and town win

[Joshz]

obviously excluding doc

[Joshz]

hellfire claim now and make a case if you have one to live

im ready to hammer you

[Joshz]

like i dont see anything producting happening, even if hm is town he is doing us no good alive and is not even trying atp

[Joshz]

the huge risk that should have happened is doctor protecting loopdan as he was the obvious kill

Joshz can you explain how he was the obvious kill? I guess if the Mafia could only kill and thought we had a Doc then anyone but me would be a good choice (Hellfire excepted) I am not sure why Loopdan was the obvious choice for a kill. You had threw some shade over to Loopdan a couple of times on day 1..

VOTE: loopdan

and ...

Otherwise, heres a good lynch. Hellfire Missile was baiting scum to wagon. Seeimg as nobody wagomed it, that makes him more likely scum in my eyes, but his flip doesnt rly give info. Ideally loopdan is the lynch because i think hes scum playing well preying on a disfunctional town. Jackel is the only other lynch that should be considered imo. I'm going to finally accept this is the newbie section and avoid lynching a newbie because they could probably use the experience. Since the IC told me I am basically being too much of a dick earlier, I don't know what I can say other than that.
VOTE: loopdan

and...

<snip>

What I think needs to happen is a lynch on someone who hasn't been wagoned, probably Loopdan though ideally Howard from my perspective. Mafia is in control of this game and that's how we will take control back.

Naked vote and couple of pokes and no one really took you up on it now your post at the top is saying he was the obvious kill. I am confused by this and would like to know how you fell about the others after yesterdays lynch and kill and not just Hellfire who we could all easily pile into today, but I don't think it give us anything in the short term.

its simple. if there was a doctor there was a mafia roleblocker, and if there was no doctor you were dead either way. therefore, there's a mafia roleblocker, because you're still alive. the mafia rb'r knows theres a doctor who will be on you, so theyll roleblock you and kill the person that they felt wouldve impeded their progress the most. loopdan was the only se/ic player that wasnt being scum read, and in addition almost everyone believed he was down. if you look back in my posts you see my explanation for why i voted loopdan. jackel being scum cleared him though.

[Joshz]

i think psyche being conftown makes human look a lot worse because ive explained previously why psyche's idling was NAI and he still pushed it. i think sobolev's interactions with jackel were TvS, they did not look fake. i would probably still want to wagon howard, but you would not have got an inspect off today if howard was scum unless his play was to seem newbie. thats a possibility, but not a likelyhood.

[Joshz]

like, i understand the theory behind trying to look newbie, but letting a cop get an inspect in exchange for that... that just removes one person from the might-be-scum pool. definitely not something id consider a good play.

[Joshz]

wdym if he flips town

the game is done if he doesnt flip town...

the fact is hm is the best lynch at this point. i actually think human is more likely scum, but hellfire is not contributing or posting along with being scummy. this is a situation where id rather not have to constantly discuss him every day and just put it to bed.

[Joshz]

look at hm's posts theyre all empty and bleh

[Joshz]

i mean then again youre all idling fucks so idk what to say

[Joshz]

@Joshz: Your explanation for the NK reasoning contains too many pronouns and is difficult to read so please correct me if I am wrong Your argument revolves around Locust being killed or blocked. The problem is that apparently neither happened.

The Lynch

Locust 443

Loopdan

447
Human Sequencer 460
HowardRoark 461

Loopdan

off 462 and on 474

Jackel98

claim 477

Human Sequencer unvote 478
HowardRoark unvote 480 and claim versus setups
Locust unvote 481
Human Sequencer vote 485
Locust vote 487
Joshz vote 490
Sobolev Space hammer 493

483-486 bothers me. Human Sequencer disregards the

DayahaangRai

Locust cop claim and defends Jackel98. Locust gets the claim inconsistency. Human Sequencer jumps back onto Jackel98. Locust follows.

I think Loopdan's 501 could be a NK reason. Today has "ruled out" a bus. @Human Sequencer, please explain/reference this.

VOTE: Human Sequencer


I don't think that Hellfire Missile is the scum. He's an easy target. One that remains on my short list, especially with a D1 success. However, I currently believe that my vote is the better lynch.

sorry, quote the post and explain again

[Joshz]

Oh. My explanation for the night kill (I read nk as neutral killing from town of salem fsr and got really confused rofl) is basically this.

- if there was no mafia roleblocker there was no town doctor so mafia was free to kill locust
- obviously, it stands to reason that there therefore is a mafia roleblocker in the game.
- the roleblocker knows there is a town doctor. naturally, this is a newbie game so its assumed the doctor wont make a hail mary play and heal anyone besides locust. so, the play is to kill the experienced player who ISNT being scum read and roleblock the cop.
- clearly the cop wasn't roleblocked or killed so either the scum is a super noob, trying to look as such, or locust's claim is fake, even though he hasnt been ccd.
- the reason i think loopdan was the obvious choice for the night kill is he is the most experienced player, again, not being scum read. psyche might have been better because it was obvious that slot was being inspected since we told him to, nullifying the read. it was between loopdan and psyche.

[Joshz]

HM, you seem legitimately exasperated here. If you're not enjoying the game then you should probably ask for a replacement instead of just resigning yourself to being lynched. But if you still want to play remember its a newbie game and you can ask for help on how to get content started. Now that we (hopefully) have a more activehttp://forum.mafiascum.net/posting.php?mode=multi&f=11&m[]=8570059# IC there will be more good advice available.

I think Loopdan's 501 could be a NK reason.

Can you explain this more please? I don't see anything in this post that points directly at Sequencer...

this ic hasnt rly been active either :/

[Joshz]

huntress literally has to be town

[Joshz]

i have more faith in locust than that

[Joshz]

itd be hilarious if he was like vt tho rofl

[Joshz]

can we hurry up and lynch hellfire

im like 90% sure scum is either him or human

human is more productive and should therefore be lynched second

there is nothing left to be gained by prolonging this day

[Joshz]

nai = not alignment indicative, as in doesnt point towards scum or town

tvs = town vs scum. others being tvt, town vs town, and svs, scum vs scum. its how you interpret an interaction.


the thing is, what is the point of this day going on? hellfire has claimed vt and given us nothing. the only things we have to go off of are why the fuck you were able to get a clear, jackel's lynch, and loopdan's nightkill. all jackel's lynch did is point towards human being scum, and all your clear + loopdan's nightkill point towards is hellfire scum. there is no more productive discussion that will happen on this day. plus, if human were to be the doctor, all wagoning him would do is let scum kill the doc. blah.

[Joshz]

oh i didnt clarify on the last part

i dont think it is a good idea to force human to claim

[Joshz]

yea locust dude hes not just going to say i am scum lol

[Joshz]

sigh

no information is going to be gained by prolonging the day, but w.e

[Joshz]

now i dont want doc to claim yet but

if we assume i, locust, psyche are town, a doc claim would make 4 town. that means the lynch pool would be out of whoever the not doc claim is, aka 3 of sobolev, human, hm, and howard. we can afford 2 mislynches. so, assuming doc is one of those and not myself or psyche, doesnt town win invariably with a doc claim?

[Joshz]

thats something that should happen TOMORROW if hm flips green. NOT today.

[Joshz]

See, I thought Josh was a doctor. I guess he just doesn't know how to read tables.

does anyone know what this means btw rofl

[Joshz]

hey is it against the rules to discuss hellfire's other game? it is still going on (day 5) but all I want to discuss is hellfire, who was lynched day 1, and discuss his flip.

[Joshz]

ok

my lynch is staying on hm

[Joshz]

im not 100% town

i said if for a reason

to explain 563: that's who i would have killed if i was scum (obviously roleblocker, if i was just a goon there is actually no good reason not to kill you). i would have roleblocked you, and killed loopdan. he was obv town, led the jackel wagon, and is an experienced player. really, my kill is typically given to the most experienced person not being scum read, obviously this changes with other prs as a factor but they arent a thing itg. also, if there was a mafia roleblocker they werent realistically going to target the cop, so as a doc itd be pretty safe to go for another target.

it is not an urge to rush onto a lynch. its an urge to stop wasting time. the fact this day is still going and now your paranoia is making you scum read me is a testimony to that. you need reasons why im town? id like to point out i was the one defending a you lynch and a psyche lynch, before either of you were proven town. i was the one that said we should lynch out of the se/ic people. i cant say anything else ive done because this game has been dead as fuck and a LOT of the content has been from me. im in a lot of games, i see no reason to sit around wasting time when there is going to be no new information today. if he flips town you should be gunning for human, again depending on the night kill, but this is a newbie game so i understand peoples reads wont be as accurate. the newbie factor on everyone is something to consider and is affecting your judgment.

there is no situation where hellfire is not the right lynch. there is going to be no new valuable information generated today. sure, sit around, do nothing for 10 days. why not.

[Joshz]

That's a fucking awful plan that physically can't work because leaving the cop alive literally just gives town a free clear every day

[Joshz]

Even assuming locust didn't stumble on the scum there's one less townie every day who can be lynched. You can't win with a strat like that.

[Joshz]

You forgot theory 3

Hellfire Missile just didn't know he could use 2 actions

[Joshz]

if he flips town me/howard/you (in order of likelyhood in my opinion) are going to die, of course assuming locust doesnt. then we lynch hs. if neither of them are scum, its lylo, but i dont see that as particularly likely.

[Joshz]

If we lynched you and you flipped scum I could see a convincing argument for Sequencer being your partner.

Please elaborate.

Two reasons: 1. When Locust first posted sequencer and I both voted him pretty quickly but he only accused me of being scummy for this. Seems he was more threatened by me than Sequencer. 2. DayRai made long posts accusing Joshz and Sequencer but the Sequencer post felt a lot more contrived and less genuine to me. I think DayRai might've known he looked suss so distanced himself from his buddy knowing the wagon wouldn't get any traction.

A day 1 mislynch on the IC slot is basically the best case scenario for scumteam

Explain please.

So I'm assuming that if you replace into an IC slot you also have to be IC but I'm not sure if thats true. All else being equal, you would expect the IC to be the best player in the game meaning good lynch for scum if they're town. All I'm saying is we should give Psyche the chance to explain himself or get replaced before lynching him.

Anyway since Sequencer asked for everyone's list:

Don't lynch

Joshz
HR

Null-ish

Loopdan
Sequencer

D2 candidates

Jackel

Lynch 'em

Psyche
HM
Locust

Don't lynch me but lynch the guy I'm saying is lock town... huh?

bringing this up again because it makes sobolev look a lot worse to me. hm/psyche are the easy pushes (besides myself) and locust was the cop claim.

Well lynching the IC for scum is great because the theoretical best player is gone right out of the gate, and in this case lynching psyche doesn't even give town much info.

@howard sorry that's how I type lol nothing against hm or anyone (bar maybe rai) as a person. And hm, lylo means town needs to lynch scum or they lose. Mylo means they need to not lynch a townie. So basically in Mylo you can afford a no lynch, whereas in lylo you can't.

I don't expect a mafia flip today anyways though. We need 5 out of 7 townies on a mafia wagon for that to happen. If one of those townies is afk (Psyche) we need 5 of 6. Considering how this game has been I don't expect townies to be thst organized so what will probably happen is a mislynch. I've never played a 9 person game and it seems more mafia sides with a smaller pool imo.

Jackel is a weird case. I believe he's town and town read him. However, he's been on every wagon that I don't like and ND he just feels different. So I'm conflicted.

What I think needs to happen is a lynch on someone who hasn't been wagoned

, probably Loopdan though ideally Howard from my perspective. Mafia is in control of this game and that's how we will take control back.

and then after when i say im also fine with a jackel lynch. granted, i remembered having more involvement than i did. human being on the wagon that early helps him. howard and hm not being on it period is awful. hm not on the wagon, what a shocker. then again, jackel couldve easily avoided being lynched, claiming tracker was awful lol (though he can explain that in post game if he wishes). one thing is that howard being on my wagon immediately after jackel could be buddying but thats a pretty bad play, so i, again, consider hm the scummier one in this situation.

[Joshz]

also, hm, there is no science to scum reading. i will just say "gut" because in the end thats all it is. learning to pick up tells and improving your general gut reading is something thatll happen with time. its better to post bad reads than no reads.

[Joshz]

lol??

[Joshz]

Alright gonna make a few comments before I go work out.

if he flips town me/howard/you (in order of likelyhood in my opinion) are going to die, of course assuming locust doesnt. then we lynch hs. if neither of them are scum, its lylo, but i dont see that as particularly likely.

Really? I see Huntress as the obvious nk tonight considering she's conftown. If HM flips town then Howard and I have already said we'd be suss of you which makes scum likely to want to keep you around. I think Howard would probs be next on the list.
The way I see it is that doc should be protecting Locust no matter what so if Locust dies tonight then we're in a setup without doc, if Locust lives but is rb'd we have a doc/roleblocker, and if Locust lives but still isn't rb'd idk what to think but we're probs in a setup without a doc with the scum going for a really out there gambit. Either way we'll know by tomorrow.

I mean I guess it could be possible if someone is trying to set up HM for an easy lynch today. But then scum would be somebody who Locust is unlikely to inspect which excludes me, Sequencer and HM.

This is a good point.

Any comment on the other theory I give in the bottom of post 612?

huntress could be a kill as conftown. they arent being productive in discussions though, theyre idling and scum reading town (me!). obviously YOU dont know im telling the truth unless youre the scum, but the scum does, and theres no need to kill her immediately if shes just going to push my lynch. youre right, its more likely huntress will, i forgot about them at the time lol they werent in my mind due to being conftown i was just thinking of us.

[Joshz]

This is all is gonna be shit but i'm going to get lynched anyway so why the fuck not.

Also gonna be either scum or town because don't wanna get into the details too much

Huntress: Town
Not alota information to go off of, i think she's waiting for more information to vote. Clear-headed, (coldly?) logical, could easily sway town to vote her way (maybe not locust idk)
I just don't feel she's scum

morelater (maybe on huntress because i feel like that was too short)

not sarcastic: is this a joke?

[Joshz]

Dude

We established huntress is literally 100% town and your fucking reads post is reading huntress as probably town? That's all you fucking have? There's a difference between bad reads and no effort ones. I will shit on your day again and again if your singular read is a probably town read on a conftown. If you legitimately are that bad after 3 games, idk what to tell you, I recommend you find an experienced player to hydra with. It'll help a lot because clearly you aren't learning with your current method. So fuck you, not fuck me.

[Joshz]

@Human Sequencer: Thank you. Very helpful.

@Joshz: Jackel98's post about you being the doctor is something that caught my eye. Why are you pointing it out?

Doc will not claim until necessary. Locust will not announce the investigation target. If Hellfire Missile is town troll, it doesn't matter if the PL is today or tomorrow, we still end up in LyLo if we mislynch the other. If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion. I feel that Joshz or Human Sequencer are more likely scum. I'm having a tough time leaning either way on Sobolev Space.

UNVOTE: Human Sequencer
VOTE: Joshz

He was able to shake my suspicion yesterday but his "I'm obv town" shouts have me concerned once again.

i asked what it meant because it seems like nonsensical garbage and he's supposed to be an se.

i am obvtown but i gave up on this game a long time ago so idc, two useless ics and three ses who i wont comment on till i see flips, what a load of garbage. and you are literally agreeing with me in that the policy lynch should be today but what ever man idc

[Joshz]

@Human Sequencer: Thank you. Very helpful.

@Joshz: Jackel98's post about you being the doctor is something that caught my eye. Why are you pointing it out?

Doc will not claim until necessary. Locust will not announce the investigation target. If Hellfire Missile is town troll, it doesn't matter if the PL is today or tomorrow, we still end up in LyLo if we mislynch the other. If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion. I feel that Joshz or Human Sequencer are more likely scum. I'm having a tough time leaning either way on Sobolev Space.

UNVOTE: Human Sequencer
VOTE: Joshz

He was able to shake my suspicion yesterday but his "I'm obv town" shouts have me concerned once again.

i asked what it meant because it seems like nonsensical garbage and he's supposed to be an se.

i am obvtown but i gave up on this game a long time ago so idc, two useless ics and three ses who i wont comment on till i see flips, what a load of garbage. and you are literally agreeing with me in that the policy lynch should be today but what ever man idc

[Joshz]

Not gonna use direct quotes because I don't have a ton of time but here are some thoughts.

@Sequencer post 636: Case on you is mostly from suspicions people like Howard or Loopdan had yesterday. I'll admit I had a bit of a bias against you because I looked through your posts today and found nothing that looked suspicious. You're a null read for me right now.

Case on Howard is mainly from my arguments in post 617. There aren't many people who would let Locust live/inspect last night on purpose.

@HM: Disregard Joshz for now. The reason analysis of Huntress's posting isn't very productive is that Locust has already (essentially) claimed cop and said Huntress is confirmed town based on an inspection last night. The current pool of non alignment confirmed players (excluding you) is me, Joshz, Sequencer, and Howard. Please continue your comments on any of us four.

@Joshz post 626. Having wrong reads by itself is NAI. Having wrong reads for bad reasons is alignment indicative. Keep in mind that town consensus at that point was that DayRai's claim was non serious as Sequencer says in post 266 and I myself even said that I would consider recanting my vote if we got to L-1 and Locust repeated the claim in post 410. Kinda suspicious that only now you think me voting Locust after DayRai claimed cop is scummy considering you defended me for it in post 407.

i said that to get the focus off of locust and to try to trick the mafia into not killing him, why do you think i was defending him so hard without referencing the cop claim

[Joshz]

I reskimmed the thread and saw that, considered commenting. The problem is that scenario was more pointing to jackel being cleared if human were to be scum. But, I agree, it does look good on human. I already quoted a space post recently and called it bad, he's definitely not inno to me anymore. I see reasons any of those 4 could be scum, though, and don't want to clear any of them yet. Howard is the least likely probably but he has annoyed me a lot so bleh bleh bias.

[Joshz]

Dw lol

I didn't trick him into claiming. I asked for a claim before a hammer. He should have been lynched by now. I'm going to stop talking about this because I don't want to get personal and start insulting people. I am disappointed the conftown IC is playing like this but whatever, nothing I can do about it.

If you lynch me lynch Hellfire next. That's all I have to say.

[Joshz]

Before huntress and Howard come in with their godly plays of me acting scum by posting ate and being defeatist, I doubt I'm getting lynched because I think the noobs are reading better. Just a post to remember.

[Joshz]

see heres the thing

we all agree hm should be policy lynched if nothing else at some point because he has clear anti town play

its awful to suggest doing that later as opposed to earlier, we dont want yet another day corrupted by a stupid policy lynch. that just gets scum closer to lylo which is beautiful for them. today is the day we do away with the probably-scum-definitely-useless player (btw hm jsyk i dont mean to be mean even it comes off that way i have nothing against you as a person im just competitive!!!!), so if the game does continue he wont constantly be there just to be there. what might be happening is scum howard wants me lynched today, gets a free policy lynch tomorrow, and wins in lylo with noobies, but tbh i just think its likely bad reading.

[Joshz]

I didn't trick him into claiming. I asked for a claim before a hammer. He should have been lynched by now.

When you asked him to claim there was only one vote on him. Yours. And you haven't given any good reason why anyone else should join you on that. A premature claim only serves to narrow down the field for scum to hit the doctor, if one exists.

Before huntress and Howard come in with their godly plays of me acting scum by posting ate and being defeatist, ...

Pretty sure I never said anything like that. Those are not scum tells by themselves. But accusing people of using them can be.

we all agree hm should be policy lynched if nothing else at some point because he has clear anti town play

If I wanted to policy lynch, it wouldn't be HM who seems to be willing to learn. Such lynches are fine for large, fast games but nine player games are too small for that. Policy lynches are actually quite rare here, though often suggested. What you are not saying, and I think you're too smart to overlook it, is that for every lynch we also lose a player through the nk that would have been very helpful to the town.

its awful to suggest doing that later as opposed to earlier, we dont want yet another day corrupted by a stupid policy lynch. that just gets scum closer to lylo which is beautiful for them. today is the day we do away with the probably-scum-definitely-useless player (btw hm jsyk i dont mean to be mean even it comes off that way i have nothing against you as a person im just competitive!!!!), so if the game does continue he wont constantly be there just to be there. what might be happening is scum howard wants me lynched today, gets a free policy lynch tomorrow, and wins in lylo with noobies, but tbh i just think its likely bad reading.

The day won't be corrupted if you just accept that he's not the lynch for toDay, and move on. By the way, I went back and looked at his earlier read on you, and your posts leading up to it, and I suspect he saw something in you that the others missed. I think that once he gets more confidence his reads could be very insightful.

I assumed he was being lynched. I was not aware people were dumb. But w.e, I have nothing more to say. I'm done keeping thus thread alive today

[Joshz]

We can lynch all 3 if we assume you're town which I'm not

Locust clear Howard or human tonight imo btw

[Joshz]

We won't have to lynch Howard.

If we can lynch three (and I thought we could only lynch 2) I will -gladly- put myself on the line to be lynched if Sobolev and HM flip town.

7 ppl rn. 1 lynch, 1 kill, 5. 2 lynch, 2 kill, 3. Lylo at that point with the 3 ppl alive determining which is scum.

[Joshz]

We won't have to lynch Howard.

If we can lynch three (and I thought we could only lynch 2) I will -gladly- put myself on the line to be lynched if Sobolev and HM flip town.

If Sobolev and HM flip town with you still alive it's lylo so do not do this

[Joshz]

:s

Sry it's a newbie game I have a hard time

[Joshz]

@Joshz: I still don't understand why you are pointing out that Jackel98 post. Does being an SE have any bearing on it? He's not here to answer it and it's either caught scum creating chaos or communication. Do you see some value in it?
It sounds like your point to Sobolev Space is that you were trying to confuse the mafia into killing somebody other than Locust. Are you trying to take credit for that as well?

what might be happening is scum howard wants me lynched today, gets a free policy lynch tomorrow, and wins in lylo with noobies, but tbh i just think its likely bad reading.

However . . .

If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion.

Then you . . .

If you lynch me lynch Hellfire next. That's all I have to say.

I get that you are sold on a Hellfire Missile lynch. If both of you flip town, who would be your LyLo choice?


Urgent call. Will be back in a couple of hours to continue.

Because I literally don't get it. It's nonsensical. I'm not rly asking game relatedly, he's supposed to be semi experienced so wtf that post meant is beyond me.

I was trying to trick mafia into killing someone other than Locust. I don't think I can attribute credit to myself for that, more a lack of experience in the mafia. I wanted to throw shade at him because fsr everyone decided rai's claim was bs even though to me it was obviously real, so I was hoping I could lead scum off the path. Clearly something or other worked, which we won't know until we see mafia pt in post game.

If both me and hm flipped town and locuat/psyche were killed it'd be you Sobolev human. I would most likely lynch Sobolev at this point. But there's a ton of game to do, and all 3 of you have various arguments for being scum.

[Joshz]

can you people stop fucking offering to be lynched holy shit

[Joshz]

@Xalxe - vote count please?

[Joshz]

im not assuming he is town. he is still scummy and a potential lynch.if he is townie and he is saying to put him on the line after sobolev and hellfire flip town, that doesnt make sense because he threw in lylo due to prior overconfidence.

i believed his claim, cus yknow, it was obvious as shit. reading enraged people is very different than normal reading. his tone and general 'body' language was genuine. if he was mafia he would not have been that enraged at us for scum reading him. i didnt have much confidence in the rest of you at the time because i felt everyones reads were all pretty awful, and sure enough people started ragging on the claim. he was obv cop and clearly jackel didnt think so because he claimed tracker just to get smacked with a cc. he wasnt necessarily cop, that couldve been retaliation, but he was necessarily town and that kind of obvread is the same thing that i am arguing should happen on me and what annoyed me earlier in this game when i was being scum read. people are just failing to grasp obvious reads in this game for whatever reason.

i am actually feeling it is TvS atp but hellfire being in this game is not good in lylo and no way in hell maf kills him before lylo

[Joshz]

i brought it up to ask what it meant. i do not understand it. you saying its nonsense is an answer.

[Joshz]

now we lynch hellfire -> human -> sobolev and we win. i doubt youre scum at this stage. however, what i dont doubt is you will potentially mislynch me in lylo which bothers me more than you know and is making me question entering lylo with you and sobolev if it gets to that.

[Joshz]

See and that's why I doubt this plan. If you're scum howard will likely mislynch me and game throw.

[Joshz]

I would agree to lynching you today sobolev/hm tomorrow and lylo if needed

This is on Howard trusting me or not

[Joshz]

I also don't think knowing his age is scum indicative regardless lmfao

[Joshz]

@Joshz: Asking what a scum's post meant after he has been hung seems pointless; he can't answer. That's why I'm asking about your purpose for doing so.

So we have a few lynch chains suggested by Joshz and Human Sequencer.
hellfire -> human -> sobolev
sobolev->hm->josh
Commonalities being Hellfire Missile and Sobolev Space. I see Hellfire Missile as a policy lynch; there's reason that he's scum. I do not read Sobolev Space as scum. A question . . . Why is Hellfire Missile a better lynch today or tomorrow?

PEDIT: What is with this sacrifice and trust?

I was not sure it was nonsense, I'm still learning

. That's my suggestion. Human being lynched first validates both reads because he is convinced you are town and I am town so a town flip is indicative I can trust you more. More importantly, I think he could potentially be scum, and that this noble lynch me movement has potential to be scum buying trust in a lylo situation building on your foundation of distrust on me. It's safest to lynch him first. the order of Hellfire and Sobolev does not matter.

[Joshz]

Becuase he is convinced you're town and a conftowns reads have value to me.

[Joshz]

@Joshz: How do you feel about swapping you out for Human Sequencer as suggested?

We lose if he's scum. I do not feel he is any less scummy than Sobolev or Hellfire and I do not feel right locking him as town. PoE wise you're town so even if my read on you is slight scum it doesn't matter because all 3 of them are more scummy by a large margin.

[Joshz]

We won't have to lynch Howard.

If we can lynch three (and I thought we could only lynch 2) I will -gladly- put myself on the line to be lynched if Sobolev and HM flip town.

If Sobolev and HM flip town with you still alive it's lylo so do not do this

Mfw huntress takes my line

[Joshz]

ah

what were you talking about?

[Joshz]

If I understand what you're saying, he didn't know it was jackel. Just random votes.

[Joshz]

intent to hammer

I am not hammering until everyone has had a chance to post, or in 24 hours if someone hasn't posted by then. This also means you claim now hs.

[Joshz]

Here is where doc claims if we have a doc which I doubt

[Joshz]

And I fail to see how your suspicion of me makes sense when I said for a long time that lynching you Sobolev and Hellfire wins AND said I'd lynch you first... but we can't have that debate since someone lolhammered thenselves

[Joshz]

Vote Count 2.5

We all lie dreamily upon damp earth, spotting clouds shaped like animals we have yet to invent.

Human Sequencer (4): Hellfire Missile, Sobolev Space, Huntress, Human Sequencer

Joshz (1)

: HowardRoark

Hellfire Missile (1)

: Joshz

Not Voting

: Locust

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-12-15 10:46:08)

This makes me more secure with Howard being town at least.

[Joshz]

it doesnt matter why. it was still awful. even if he was 100000% confident in lets say sobolev being scum - he is just a vanilla townie. that is still a read and can therefore definitely be wrong, ESPECIALLY here in a newbie game. he killed off discussing his reads or his lynch. i have lolhammered myself so i cant exactly judge but it was stupid as fuck when i did it and it was stupid as fuck when he did it.

[Joshz]

you are going to throw this game and i really want to scum read you for it but i think its just bad town play. i got my anger out of the w ay though so whatever lmao

for now im p sure scum is sobolev so

VOTE: sobolev

however, howard's charming skill puts us in an awkward position. we actually DONT get to lynch sobolev and hellfire to win because tomorrow in a howard me hellfire lylo howard is going to lynch me. chop it however you want but he is and in that situation with hellfire as scum its game over. we could lynch hellfire today, but that just means howard will throw the game to sobolev scum tomorrow if hellfire is town. so basically, town only gets one more shot. locust and whichever noobie is a townie, you should think long and hard about your lynch because regardless of if it happens today or tomorrow im getting lynched by howard and theres nothing any of us townies can do about it.

[Joshz]

before any lovely people wanna come in: this is not defeatist. you can vote me today if that makes you happy, whatever, im getting lynched anyways because howards tunnel is deeper than journey to the center of the earth. it does not matter because tomorrow howard and the one scum have the numbers to lynch me. even if you do intend on lynching me today first you should decide which of sobolev and hellfire are scum. this is your one shot and your time to think. howard, same goes to you. even assume i am scum: think about your plan for when i flip town. you dont get to go tomorrow and say but josh is a dumbass GG scum and take a 50/50 guess. lets think about this now and decide, while im ALIVE and can contribute an opinion, which of hellfire and sobolev is scum. honestly, i dont see sobolev being dumb enough to not kill locust. however, i do see howard doing that to bus the newbies and look townier. @LOCUST: you are the ic. look at howards content and make SURE hes town, because im clearly biased and i dont want to lose the game because i dont want to hand howard a free win if hes scum. tbh that kill only makes sense from howard or hellfire but on the other hand sobolev is scummier in almost every aspect so lets see.

[Joshz]

obv i mean make sure you read him as town since youre just vanilla and cant actually know yourself as a fact

[Joshz]

lol i mean huntress not locust but anyways gn

[Joshz]

This game is already over, we lynch HM then Sobolev, if we do that we win either D2 or 3 guaranteed(tm)

I've slept on it and changed my mind by the way, I think Sobolev is more likely our scum, but as long as we lynch her tomorrow I don't mind lynching HM today.
Howard isn't our scum and if he is he deserves the win.

We won't have to lynch Howard.

If we can lynch three (and I thought we could only lynch 2) I will -gladly- put myself on the line to be lynched if Sobolev and HM flip town.

Sobolev is our scum, I really shouldn't have to explain why 699 is scummier than anything else in this thread.

Sobolev just took a complete 180 in playstyle, this is scum realizing what she's doing isn't working and panicking over getting caught.

Of course I don't consider the possibility that I'm the NK for two nights. That's Locust and Huntress. You're reaching pretty hard there.

I'm not buying your gambit, it reads faker than fake nails to buy 'just one more day' in a hopeless situation. Lynch this.

Howard, Huntress, if you're reading this after I've been lynched and flip town, trust Josh.

Also, you get one heart each.

<3 <3

Where does he say Hellfire is more likely scum???? He says the exact opposite and is why I rather lynch Sobolev rn. I am trusting him. Don't outright low to make me look worse.

[Joshz]

And I do still want to lynch Hellfire. We only get one shot at this thanks to someone so we need to make sure. I do not see anyone besides Howard or Hellfire not killing locust n1.

[Joshz]

I meant to expand on my thoughts but was a little too tired upon returning home last night.

@Sobolev Space: Yes, I meant Human Sequencer's flip not Hellfire Missile's. I did the ISO before Human Sequencers flip but it was deprioritized with the sacrifice and trust scheme yesterday. Your interactions looked a bit more TvT or possibly Human Sequencer being scum. With his flip and a quick ISO reread, TvT makes more sense.

Joshz wanted a Hellfire Missile lynch

TODAY

(yesterday). When Human Sequencer lays out a plan to sacrifice himself Joshz is against it, then he switches to encouraging the lynch with a basis of trusting a dead townie's reads. Today he discards that

dead conftown read

strategy and goes after Sobolev Space without explaination, not Hellfire Missile.

@Joshz: What changed? There is, and has been, the most important thing that the others have done to keep you from "getting lynched by howard" . . . not voting for you. As long as I keep reading you as scum, I'll keep presenting my arguments.

@Hellfire Missile: Because we had a cop who was able to investigate but was killed last night, and nobody has claimed doc . . . it is mostly likely a 2 Goon versus 6 Vanilla + 1 Cop setup. Which means we're down to 1 Goon versus 4 Vanilla and two chances to get it right. (Apparently Huntress ninja'd me.)

This is explicitly what I meant and is why I'm doubting you're conftown anymore. Human wanted Sobolev lynched...? Nothing keeps me from getting lynched by you to throw to mafia tomorrow so your argument is invalid. We need to solve this game with this lynch. So get out of your fucking tunnel and discuss who of Sobolev and Hellfire you think is scum because you sure as fuck need a plan for when you land us in a shitty lylo. I said earlier multiple fucking times thst i did not trust human and thought his offers to sacrifice himself were scummy and you've even acknowledged yourself thst both human was scummy and not a bad lynch. This is the stage of a game where one tunnelling townie is
enough to win the game for scum. I'm actually so sick of you blatantly lying about my actions that I'm probably going to stop replying to you though as I find it unproductive. You're probably town because lynching Sobolev and Hellfire would win scum you the game but you're not helpful to finding scum.

[Joshz]

Yea im done reading your posts lmfao

You're lynching me regardless of what I say so you knight as well get your head out of your ass and start hunting for who you think is scum with the assumption I'm town, since I'm getting lynched anyways. Don't reply to this, I'm not reading it, your bullshit rhetoric has annoyed me enough for this game.

[Joshz]

I knew signing up for a newbie was a mistake back on d1 when I was being scumread for horrible reasons. So tell ya what.

VOTE: hellfire

I'm leaving this thread and not viewing it again because I'm fucking sick of it. Lynch me or don't. If im still here in lylo I'll vote Sobolev. Otherwise, this game has ruined enough of my moods and I'm done wasting it. Mod can sub me if he wants but at this stage in the game it's probably a waste. I said from the beginning of yesterday we were wasting our time prolonging the day and I was right. I can't preach about being some mafia God because clearly I'm learning too but at least I'm not a player who gets tunnel vision ever and that's a personal flaw many people get.

Here is how you decide between lynching Sobolev and Hellfire. Hellfire makes more sense as scum to me and is the only explanation for the non cop kill besides you yourself which nobody is going for so whatever. Sobolev is who human had locked as scum. I don't even see much of a case on him, I was trusting the dead townie which you explicitly said I wasn't so what fucking ever. Because of Howard this game only gets one 50/50 to find scum so gl!

Remember this post tomorrow then I likely get lynched today for giving up. Sorry but this thread has impacted my irl state and that's more important than a mafia game.

[Joshz]

Actuually leaving my vote here

VOTE: howard

I've thought about it and all of this lying / contradicting / tunnelling he's done is scummy as fuck. I am on mobile so no big wall post. Read through his posts and you will see the clear contradictions and outright lying ie my vote on Sobolev and his tunnel has been here since early day 1. I don't think Howard has played a good enough enough game to get a free win as scum. Huntress is both experienced and conftown so I'll let her decide on the lynch and whichever newbie is a townie should listen to her.

[Joshz]

Something else I noted: he is explicitly voting me for not voting Hellfire. This is subliminally telling people "Hey look, I've tunneled my guy since day 1 and haven't wavered! I'm townier in comparison" which is cute.

[Joshz]

mod

replace me out. I can't stay in this game and not insult Howard on a personal level. Sorry.

[Joshz]

and I drove a very large amount of discussion in this thread, including about me. If you reread and seriously call my play sheeping I have nothing to do to you. Nothing you're calling contradicting is contradictory, at ALL. How does me giving up on the thread mean I am guaranteed to not be alive in lylo? I said what I'd do in the hypothetical I was alive. I cannot stand to play with a person like you if you're town and I just don't think you're scum

So I guess my final action in this game is to switch my vote to
VOTE: hellfire and when my less moronic games are done I'll bid farewell to ms.

[Joshz]

Town deserved to lose.

I'll keep the salt out and leave it at that. Hellfire, if you want to learn try two things: get a game with better ics or hydra with a good player if someone is willing. Watch and learn from them. Hydra will really help you improve if a good player is willing.

This'll probs be my last ms post so bye.

[Joshz]

Town deserved to lose.

I'll keep the salt out and leave it at that. Hellfire, if you want to learn try two things: get a game with better ics or hydra with a good player if someone is willing. Watch and learn from them. Hydra will really help you improve if a good player is willing.

This'll probs be my last ms post so bye.

josh no

watching this game i didn't get the HS or josh wagons at all but i was barely following

;{