Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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Lycanfire
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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It was an RVS vote because I didn't want to leave RVS. I wanted to make a sillier looking vote but I somewhat felt bad for Mathblade so I made it coherent enough to be picked up by their web bot.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan
Do you usually need reasons for RVS votes?-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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In post 129, Tchill13 wrote:
i think this is more of a product of llamarble pushing a biased agenda. Ethier way he either genuinely believes Marquis is scum at this point or llamarble is scum.In post 49, Marquis wrote:
I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.In post 47, Llamarble wrote:And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.
You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.
when you are close to reading people but decide doing it properly is too much workIn post 131, Tchill13 wrote:
sauce has a "i want the spotlight on me" feel.In post 100, Sauce wrote:
Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?In post 99, LicketyQuickety wrote:OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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This is the entire point behind Llamarble's play. This is a problem I see too often: players want certain other players to flip a certain way, so they stick with their first gut instinct instead of fully absorbing what other people are doing. This amounts to feely bullshit.In post 135, Tchill13 wrote:llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.
Llamarble is obviously putting all the attention on himself to rile up opportunistic scum. CES immediately jumps on it. I don't like Llamarble talking himself up on a personal level - it's pretentious - so why does he post it? It's because anyone that would actually raise an issue with it is crippled, reaching for low hanging fruit.In post 68, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Agreed.In post 35, Llamarble wrote:Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.
Vote: 'marble
If we want people to take such micro scum tells, we have to be more rigorous. You can't just lump in a mid-word ellipsis with general ellipses.In post 47, Llamarble wrote:F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.
I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.In post 67, Postie wrote:Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.
VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
Open wolf seasonIn post 214, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
You don't think his catch-up-style entry to the game felt forced? I'm assuming he's used to a spammier meta than we are and catching up on a 4/5 page game seems weird to me. Achieving a natural game entry as scum is generally not trivial, especially given the Marquiswagon, and this seems like an affectation that would let him sidestep the essential difficulty.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Going to say this right now: I'm busy. I'm read up to and including page 14. I'd like to thank everyone for not making this a toxic wasteland like other games have turned out to be. Tomorrow and Friday I will re-double my efforts on this.
This isn't the lycanfire reads collectors edition, it isn't calling a team and running with it. I'm quite vocal on never having nullreads, so push comes to shove I sort people into two categories and slap disclaimer bumper stickers all over them if i think I'm driving too nice of a car into the neighbourhood. The point is to drive the car over the finish line, not to look good doing it.
Town
Shea - asks the questions that popped into my head as I was reading, and even one i would have otherwise missed (#250) sorting of LQ seems genuine (or at least this is not s/s). i feel that by being easily baited into discussing reck's feelings he had first feelings of doubts, and began pausing each time he interacted with a scumread. 265 isn't exactly a 'push', it's very awkwardly worded. (for someone that said "okay we have our first" shea isn't exactly lowering the boom with "if you're town you're not going a good job". particularly in 270 I feel like Shea is so focused on Reck's read that he is unable to see what is in front of him. In 293 he does the exact same thing, in fact the strange wording with Gamma comes back but is directed towards LQ here at the end. My read on Shea is that he is too easily baited into questioning Reck's read that he himself is not putting in the work in the area Reck pointed him in. The entirety of @Drunkards should listen to him talk about the game rather than the other way around.
ActionDan - He offers a fair roast of Gamma and takes what is oddly a hard position for other people to come to? Motives here seem well intentioned. I feel like his take on 254 is fair - at first it reads like Shea whiteknights Dunnstral, however it's pretty well established that Gamma has nothing to go on, so it's a worthwhile nudge by Shea. I differ on his opinion on 265. Shea's word choice changes quite rapidly from "got our first" to "not doing a good job [if town]" I've reconciled it in my own way. I don't think it breaks from Dan's comment "honest" but it's something that should have been questioned or internalized? Premature.
NSG - I feel like Llamarble's tell wasn't something concrete- but my opinion on Marquis is that his attempts at early game dejection (awww shucks) were noise. Nothing that helped us in any way. Maybe unfair-if showing emotion is town, is perceived attempts at humanizing yourself to others always scum? Is failing to do so also scum? I don't have a cookie cutter for every read- I collect the circumstances and walk the path the people I read walk in. When the reality I experience is disjointed from the one being presented to me I feel dysphoric, I want to correct it, and to make it "right". I feel like pushing Marquis is absolutely fair, but it wasn't an end all read on the slot.
scum
Tchill - i thought i was being quite inflammatory by saying his reads on llamarable and sauce should have been flipped, and that he made some attempt to read but fell short and decided to phone it in rather than come up with something real. i feel like scum tchill immediately discredits me here, but he did not, so i don't know what to make of that. he follows up on my push on CES in 246 by saying what amounts to "there is Y, and as a result maybe X (but I'm going to yell over that possibility and discount it)". i don't see how that's fair.
LQ - I feel like he dragged his heels in defense of himself by focusing so much on Reck's read. If Shea were to pop into the thread and say "by powers of his supreme deductive ability Reck says LQ is scum, also I am on the toilet right now" and never talks about LQ again, doesn't LQ have a good pillow to throw himself on rather than the sword he leaps on with 252? The "I am innocent" vibe I get out of this does nothing to convince me of it. I have 267 noted down as being entirely mechanical. It's back to the baiting of Reck's read I spoke of above in combination with going down this route anyway. Like LQ said later on, eventually a conversation just stops, but why did this one start?! To prove doubt? It looks like he succeeded, because Shea never once stops doubting himself to call LQ out on baiting him into shit that doesn't matter. LQ makes an effortpost later on, but I feel like the basic thesis of 308 is acompletebreak from his earlier "WIFOM bomb" comment.
Gamma - Bad vote aside, it reads like a machine shit out 253. A HUMAN BEING wouldshow dejectionof being so obviously wrong- they would feel silly, frustrated, or otherwise upset, and from that alone we could observe thatall actionsthat came from that premise were as so. Instead Gamma sits there and writes ", andIsee thatyouare right." Compare this to Shea who has real moments of pausing and doubt, real flaws that he doesn't admit and may not even be conscious of. The "bus vote" thing being more likely over Dunnstral choosing a name and going out for lunch feels pretty nefarious in motive. LQ points this out, and I don't feel like they're a viable team despite trying to outscum one another on the same page. There's no proverbial lion in the room that necessitates outrunning your fat friend here. incidental.I no longer FoS you
Llamarble - He may be Llamarble, but I'm not sure if he is righteous...
Postie - I disagree in the entirety of 323. Failing to come to good conclusions makes me think Postie is acting in bad faith. Overall I feel confident in reading Postie.
Sauce - he's like one of those sirens corner stores use to stop children from loitering except I'm too old to hear this shit.
jumbled mess because while I had an idea of my overall opinion of everyone their position and the points I was trying to make were laced up as i jumped between each ascending note
@NSG
Why the question of "who are my townreads?" in particular?
@LQ
What's up with posts 92 and 308?-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Nothing concrete yet. I want Llamarble's opinion. I'm still trying to reconcile my primary scumreads (i.e. only one of you or LQ). I think Postie is more town for reasons, some questions I have to respond to, others I think are inane and I will be ignoring. I have a few thoughts, but two/all three of those jumped out at me in a way I usually see into other dimensions to find scum. Will explain everything.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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In post 582, Llamarble wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with these choices, particularly CES + AD I can believe. CES is going after Marquis with a decent amount of energy, but not enough to rule out the pairing.Lycanfire wrote:Llamarble if I called the scumteam as Marquis+ActionDan+CES what would be your opinion?In post 410, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:You didn't really need to make 5 posts just to make like one interesting point, 'marble. Come on, if you're going to unvote lurkerscum, please be a good example in a different way. Also, I suggest you ask fferyllt about Marquis.
I see the same mechanisms protecting you as I'm used to seeing, so I care very little about your generalities about the current meta. I do like how you point out that it should barely count as lurking in a few different ways only to undercut it by admitting you lurked intentionally.In post 381, Marquis wrote:3) again it's literally been a day. i know i didn't post when i said i would (oh no someone didn't keep their word on ms.net) but like. come on. it's not 2005. lurking isn't a scumtell (if anything the scum meta is spamposting but i'll cut off because i'm not sure if that applies here yet). town has just as much motivation to not want to deal with things. case in point i pretty much played overwatch all last night because i really didn't feel like coming into d1 scumreads/votes on me and trying to defend myself.Is that supposed to excuse your earlier scummitude?In post 520, ActionDan wrote:LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there,but I don't see the scummitude others do.
None of Marquis' recent posts look to me as anything other than null, and certainly not giving me town vibes for the language, emotion or any content within as suggested by Gamma. In fact the time spent making those posts could have been used to read the thread, as I'm sure Marquis is aware.
Tchill lack of anything not Postie related after he thought certain posts of hers looked townie is now a concern of mine. That said recognizing that at least some of her posts have merit to them is an encouraging sign and I maintain previous to that his thought processes didn't strike me as particularly scummy.
I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.In post 526, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:In post 520, ActionDan wrote:I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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q&a period
if i miss your question it was probably stupid
BLANKET ANSWER
"6 suspects" / "no CES" in post 430.
Nobody gets upset with someone that gives 11 towns 2 nulls in a mini. They might get upset with which reads fall onto certain people. Saying I can't find >3 people scummy at any given time is disingenuous. I placed a big-ass disclaimer at the beginning of my post that I didn't care about calling a team, working with a theory, and that I was going to put town or scum on everyone. Deal with it. Regarding the lack of CES, if you look closely I spell out "Vote CES" if you apply the Fibonacci sequence to every paragraph.
.... No, seriously, CES is clearly on my mind when I put Tchill in scum territory just for discounting the possibilities of CES. My first point was something I couldn't make heads or tails of, so he landed there purely as a result of my second point. All I was doing was making reads off of interesting developments within 3-4 pages. Deal with it.
I come across nonsense posts like this that essentially boils down to, "well according to your methods, everything related to gathering reads/playing mafia/living life is pointless!" As if it's supposed to be some ultimate "gotcha". No. Nothing about this is real. I already said my first gut reaction was that I didn't like Llamarble's post. Not seeing past his behavior is CES' problem, not my own. I'm explicitly doing the opposite of using "feely bullshit". I'm reasoning a read. I'm the one who has put in the work to have a read. Llamarble's intent is irrelevant. I reason that 1) CES' vote is a result of Llamarable's previous posts. This is fact. 2) Despite not making comment on it, I don't see CES making this vote if Llamarble does not make post65. What heIn post 374, ActionDan wrote:Lycan, in your 225, do you not think your conclusion that CES is opportunistic scum jumping on Llmarble is example of what you described as "feely bullshit" since it seems to me you don't have a reasonable basis to conclude either that Llmarble talked himself up to rile up scum or that CES voted him in reaction to it as CES hardly gave much of a reason for his Llmarble vote in the first place.doesvote Llamarble for is nothing worth pushing. CES voted Llamarble because he thought it was a good vote. I don't see the town motivation for anyone that reads past their initial gut feeling.
In post 434, LicketyQuickety wrote:Not only that, but in 225 he just assumed Llama was doing a slayers gambit of some sort as opposed to just thinking Llama is firing from the hip (which can come from Town and Scum alike), which IIRC Llama neither confirms nor denies which makes his vote on ECS superflux.
In post 446, Postie wrote:1. Are you saying I'm scum for disagreeing with you? If so, please tell me why your opinions are so self-evidently correct that I couldn't possibly see things differently?
Read post
I... posted the conclusion first?In post 603, LicketyQuickety wrote:Why no conclusion?
I would like to thank everyone that asked me stupid questions and ones they did not expect answers to. It's only as a result of your effort that the shining beacons of content in this post become more real.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Thoughts
EddieFenix/Sauce is not s/s - I don't think wolves talk like 421 425.Maybe421 is in-thread comm, but I feel the increasing feeling of getting brain damage every time I read Sauce's posts, moreso than trying to read the anagrams in Schadd's recent Mini.
Dunnstral/Postie are weirdly aligned at the time of writing 427
Marquis/LQ is not s/s - 458
EddieFenix/Gamma likely not s/s - 506
Gamma/ActionDan is not s/s - 522
Reservation-
Gamma's spoilered defense of Eddie in 395 was shit.
In post 433, LicketyQuickety wrote:My guess is that you either didn't see the pattern that Marquis saw themselves, or you didn't think I saw that post by North, or you thought I would be too embarrassed to admit that I didn't see the pattern there. I think it's the later.
Asking again what you meant by 308.In post 308, LicketyQuickety wrote:This is Marqu trying to get the game going IMO
In post 434, LicketyQuickety wrote:His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.
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His question to meI don't think is a legit way to sort meconsidering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scumyou have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.
Why do you think I do not intend to sort you when I'm offering twice the number as scum as scumreads? Are you special?In post 437, LicketyQuickety wrote:Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.
Who are you talking to in this (434) post, and what are you trying to say?
What about my wording is interesting?
Context: Marquis asks to be pointed in a direction. Receives groans. Postie pops by and doesn't waste an opportunity to promote her petread like some kind of psychotic Jehovah's Witness. I would say Postie's conviction here is town. The main problem with Postie is that her reads are bad- the push on Eddie has some substance (sure pushing someone that makes that townbloc comment and never relenting is cool), but she later makes a weirdo post which amounts to "Eddie has no direction, something something super secret reads are scum" in 469. Eddie never admits to having a super secret read, but I'm puzzled how that would be a scumpush.
What reservations did you have about CES? Want to come back on board?In post 475, Sauce wrote:Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill
Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.
In post 462, Llamarble wrote:LQ is a very good scum candidate too. Those 3/15 odds aren't looking so bad anymore.
I liked Lycan's big post; puts him in the area of "nothing particularly difficult to fake yet but moving in a good direction" with NSG.
Is the latter comment referring to Shea?In post 508, Llamarble wrote:The reasons people find you scummy aren't the tells you anticipated? The horror! Oh and the guy making genuine effort to read you (and the rest of the game) is scum, because that follows.
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I'm theorizing that CES and ActionDan are scum together: Marquis a possible third. See a few posts previous in 602 where I (apparently, too subtly) point out what I believe to be in-thread communication between the two of them. ActionDan in particular has defended Marquis twice over (Shea has done the same thing, also twice) while CES is on the opposite side of the argument. I'm suggesting the word choice in 410 and 520 is a word defined in pre-game* to focus the teams' attention on a serious push. ActionDan's reciprocation in 520 amounts to "back off of Marquis, CES". See my bolded segments. CES picks up the code and returns soon after in 526 stating that things aren't going according to plan, and weakly tries to get ActionDan on board, to which Dan expresses meek interest in exploring at some undetermined time in the future.
*yes my team is all-town, we know about pre-game communication was a thing because jjh asked shit for brains if pregame was 24 hours to do nothing, to which we were asked if we were all town, upon being told yes we were told that we sit around talking to ourselves for 24hr
tl;dr foreverybody elseI want you to sell me on your pet wagon and if you do so you're etching your name into the history books as someone who promoted a wagon over one on CES.
god bless-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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That's my mistake.In post 607, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I'm pretty sure all of Team Mafia has scum daytalk, bud.
No intentions of taking some aggression here and seeing what bites?
There's only one real answer to my original argument if you're scum.In post 608, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:None of this is true.
These posts are a real waste of energy. Who's scum?
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Davsto catchup so far is townie
Gamma wasn't acting human in 256. Your 323 amounts to "there is no suspicious activity here, fellow humans!" It isn't that I disagree with you that makes that post scummy, it's that it's a genuine shit post.In post 620, Postie wrote:Explain like I'm five.
I've read your entire case on Eddie. I'm telling you that the premise of your original push was all right, but you've since locked yourself into a tunnel. See my last point in 606. You're not making much sense by the tail end of your push. You're welcome to start making more sense if you want a serious wagon to get going.In post 620, Postie wrote:I'm not sure how to explain the things you're confused by any better than I already have, and you seem to be ignoring 90% of my reasons for scumreading Eddie in favour of nitpicking this one thing. I don't know what else to say to you because this is such an astronomically skewed interpretation of events. I don't think we're going to mesh well this game.
Hold the phone. It was a pure defense of Eddie in that post. Maybe nobody else bothered to open the spoiler (why are people doing this? clip your fucking quotes and make enough sense the first time around) but you essentially said he blank votes you and ended up blaming Shea for Eddie's behavior. Don't dish it if you can't take it.In post 622, Gamma Emerald wrote:@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.
In post 624, LicketyQuickety wrote:I can say I really don't like your 'holier than thou' attitude.
Who said anything about townreads? This is about my supposedly permanent 6 player scum pool. Seems fitting, there's a lot of shit in stagnant water.In post 627, LicketyQuickety wrote:For the first question, you are implying that your Scum reads are the only ones you plan on sorting? This means you would not be reevaluating your Town reads, which I think is an incorrect way to approach the game.
How many times did you rewrite the original post?In post 627, LicketyQuickety wrote:I am not talking to you in post 434, I am talking to Town to see what they have to say about it.
It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it'sIn post 627, LicketyQuickety wrote:It's more that your wording paints a picture that ends up giving more emphasis to points that are not as well substantiated. In other words, I am saying your words are charismatic and your words are stronger than the evidence of what you are actually saying.
The
Balki
Attack!
Your perceived threat of my posts says more about you than it says about me.
How are you rationalizing the current wagons?In post 630, Llamarble wrote: Difficult to read players that I don't have any special reason to believe are town
Postie - paranoid about this one especially because "wait why are we townreading this player" happens a lot with scum
CES
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Serious D1 Lynch Options:
Marquis
Eddie
AD
LQ
Tchill
What fresh blood? Who do you want to have post? Call them out.In post 637, EddieFenix wrote:
Because I originally was voting GE, after a back and forth, I unvoted them. I'm also waiting for fresh blood/meat to get in here to sort some of those damn null spots I have in my reads. Marathon, CES.In post 578, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Eddie, GE, why aren't you voting?
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Marquis catchup acceptable for now, must make a vote before EoD.
What point were you trying to make in your previous post exactly?
Clipping the fuck out of Sauce's post because the less I let it influence me the better I can perform. Most notably from this post and in the two that follow Sauce drops their posting gimmick.In post 667, Sauce wrote:
VOTE: TchillIn post 672, Thestatusquo wrote:Yes, currently we have 11/15 players (including yourself!) not voting for someone useful.
I still feel best about CES+Dan.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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When I asked you how you were rationalizing the current wagons I mainly meant how you are able to explain the absence of a counterwagon. When I voted Tchill I expected a few things- Tchill making a post before the heat death if the universe, a counterwagon, a lolhammer, usual things like that. I expressed uncertainty because your own reads list has only steadily launched CES into scumspace, but I feel you lack enthusiam to vote him.
Assuming Tchill is scum, I had no problems with the wagon comp, but if anything I'm less worried about the prospects of an all-town town lynch than voting the wrong person for the wrong reasons, the latter of which is being presented with an absence of choice.
Saying that CES is an unworkable or claiming there is a world he deserves to live to lylo is ridiculous to me. I'm barely able to stay awake and managed to weave through enough noise to see that rather than claim to find scum like I asked him to he walked in and like a magician pulled out two recent posts and whispered scum like some kind of rapist. He doesn't deserve some self resolving pass when he is past his expiration date.What is your biggest concern Llamarble?-
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Lycanfire
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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In post 717, Gamma Emerald wrote:ok yeah what part of my post to Eddie says I'm blaming Shea for anything Eddie did?In post 395, Gamma Emerald wrote:This vote kinda feels like he's jumping me, but I won't press it since I can also see that it came right after TSQ presented a smoking gun of sorts on me.
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Does it matter? Dan is saying Eddie is nothing like TBD. I picked up pretty quickly that Eddie isn't all that different, besides trying to attract more attention.In post 933, Llamarble wrote:Don't worry postie if tchill townflip.and you eat NK I shall grant Eddie 754 scum points
Pefit
I think if you are in one game with tchill where he is posting and one where he is not, original thought is not required to make case against him. Don't overcred dunn for that specifically. However overall I find him alright anyway.
Is the gimmick scum specific?
Also by bait do you mean these players are town?
Dunnstral improved his vote, had a reason for it, asked pointed questions in 796 and 806. He is a complete lurksack these days regardless of alignment, but he doesn't make strong pushes or helps town the way he is in this game when he rolls scum.
Yes they are both likely town.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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If you are town why do you hesitate in making a vote and seeing what bites?In post 1464, northsidegal wrote:i think i'm still at postie, actiondan, ranmaru definitely town, quick and gamma questionably town, cogito ergo sum and lycanfire scumreads (although my teammates disagree on lycan).
I hard townread Llamarble early, put him in scum over 1/1 post in a set period of time-actually, that read was mainly a "I'm watching you" post directed to him because he was not meeting my expectations of what I thought town!Llamarble was (unless you really think Llamarble talking about himselfIn post 1523, northsidegal wrote:Lycan scumread – my lycan scumread initially started because i got majorly pinged that his reads were fabricated. he entered the thread making a point and a vote that were entirely predicated on a hard llamarble townread, and then later on in his readslist he had llamarble as null. other people seemed to townread him for the one post where that happened, but i never saw anything there. in fact, i think it's the kind of post where i myself would be inclined to make a mistake in townreading it. nothing he's posted since then has changed that or really caused me to reconsider.againwas a legitimate scumread out of me.) Llamarble became serious, so I dropped the matter. If you're having trouble understanding the townreads on me, it's because I spoke directly to Llamarble in-thread, he saw I could push him, he shrugged it off and when I did not push him, hard townread me for the rest of the day.
If my reads seemed "fabricated" to you it is only because you decided to ignore how I specifically threw out reads based on four pages in mostly-isolation (except when they were referencing previous material). You got upset about it and tried to lord some kind of inconsistency on my read on Llamarble which I ignored and repeated what my motives were.
What started?In post 1523, northsidegal wrote:Cogito ergo sum – this started because ces really just wasn't doing anything. he was pretty much one-note pushing marquis for a comparison to the 2015 team mafia white flag game where marquis was scum, and he was kind of obtuse in answering my questions. Granted, that doesn't make someone scum, but as i've already described the switch from thinking the tchill wagon was no better than random to scumreading screen for the replace in seems scummy to me.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Mainly hesitation to write off the last few pages as TvT (is it just noise, am I missing anything). Lack of time to fully justify my reads. Ask me again later about that.In post 1572, Ranmaru wrote:Lycan: Why are you voting CES without interacting with him, nor casing him? Why aren't you pushing for his lynch
CES/Dan are obvscum. Whenever I push CES some scumfuck like Dan or NSG comes out to try to discredit me. Not building consensus on that worries me about where the third is, but maybe this is a giant shitstorm of noise.
This is true, but at the same time three people are trying to infuence the town. In this moment three different people are steering the town with an anti-town agenda. Looking at one person a day is how every game of mafia has been lost for town.In post 1562, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Why are people talking so much about teams at this point. I mean I know why - because people have done it in this game and gotten away with it so people just keep doing it.In post 1549, Marquis wrote:And for all your emotion and over-the-top tone re: your supposed scumread on me, it's incredibly difficult to believe it's genuine when this read came from mastina. In other words I flat out don't believe the read on me is genuinely that strong when you only even switched focus to me because of one of mastina's random-ass "readslist"s. It feels way more like you know you have to stick to me as an only viable alternative to your mislynch... other than your scumpartner LQ.
Stop, it's not helpful.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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1. I asked to get a setup reviewed that I've been working on for a month.
2. I did some back and forth with my reviewer.
(which is more fun than being ignored in this game)
3. Did I mention this game is shit? no okay
4. You're expletive town. 2/2 people on my team that care enough about this game agree. (like, flat-out, scum don't make 1631 )
5. Your global reads don't help anybody. Form better reads about this game.
My performance this game has been underwhelming because the people I want to push don't want to play, then the town wants to go vote each other so I get to make a post that amounts to "can we lynch CES rather than town" only to get passed by. I'm not a person that townhunts, or makes cases for people being town, because I always hold a giant sack of suspicion and allowing myself to get blinded by a townread (like people were with Sakura Hana in PPMIII) is a weakness. I go off on my merry way and collect towns as it makes sense to with regards to where I am in the game state.
See my reads on Eddie and Dunnstral. I didn't like how Dan was justifying Eddie as town, as Eddie was playingpretty damn similarly, and I was establishing his read was being made in bad faith. Dan's alternative to scum!Gamma is Dunnstral, and having no problems with Dunnstral whatsoever I pressed Dan to see what other name he would divine or if he was willing to commit to Gamma. Based on his post 927, who he considers to be scum/town, and players he is engaging like townies, after my rebuke in in 932, does scum!Dan have anywhere to go? Apparently not. His last content post puts Marquis/CES/Screenplay in his crosshairs. The former two he had engaged as town for all of the game, the latter being the handpicked lynch of CES. Dunnstral/Gamma 404. Scaredshitlessscum.
And on my read on Eddie, which is so relevant to you Ran, it's that he has dogshit reads with no reasons for them, but because he lined himself up in the crosshairs I thought he was town. He's subverting that now by being terse. Is he the third? If so, he's basically playing team captain here by being the only person to post by visually face tanking every other casepost while the other two want him dead to rights. I'd say he isn't, because we had two paradigms day 1: CES wants Marquis, AD doesn't want Marquis. Eddie? Fuck it, Marquis is null until SoD2, where he becomes scum for some lame reason. There's no coordination there. The third is more likely a lurksack like NSG.
Like what the fuck is wrong with my votes anyway?In post 1640, Ranmaru wrote:Please do ISO Lycan. Then look at his votes. Then look at how he is pushing his scum reads and tell me what you think about it.
This is a pr good post because seeing Shea go so ham on LQ afterwards made me feel like a scumfuck. I did pretty much the exact same in Darkest Dungeon but my intentions were meant to be good by getting my highest tr going instead of defending someone that isn't in the game. I'm glad you picked up on this and all but is the conclusion (Shea and I are scum) really justified here? Isn't it SvT, like somehow I felt out to manipulate Shea... Or an alternate universe where a fire is fanned and LQ gets lynched around the time he started getting defeatist about that eventuality? I feel like you saw something weird and decided to make sense of it but really just glossed over the easiest conclusion that Shea held back when he shouldn't have and let it loose when it was pointed out he was justified in doing something besides playing D for Reckoner.In post 1653, Ranmaru wrote:Shea: On day 1 I asked you for your thoughts on Davsto and I had to repeat myself before you actually responded to me. I was thinking since you and I disagreed on reads, being the most top town reads, you would be interested in asking me to reconsider any reads, like you did with Llama. Today you neverinitiateda conversation with me, your strongest town read. So my question is this: Why haven't you made the initiative to ask? Of course ifIask you to talk reads, you'll talk, I am not disputing that. Why don't you agree on Lycan, do tell. Why did you ignore LQ's #434, and attack him a few minutes later? Why did you never comment on LQ's #434. I also did not like your treatment of Gamma on a re-read. I want an updated full reads list from you with reasons. I felt that you should have considered LQ before simply voting Eddie this phase. I expected your assistance on LQ so it was odd that you preferred to support the Eddie wagon instead at the time.
Anywho here's where I stand on LQ
Dudes town despite being bad day 1. You just have to let these things happen.In post 1310, LicketyQuickety wrote:
And if I had a nickel for everytime Llama changed their scum reads I would probably have several dollars by now.In post 1309, Postie wrote:
I want to point out the dissonance in this. He implies that he strongly thinks Srceen is scum, but then says he wants to give him more time and isn't going to vote or push there.In post 1178, EddieFenix wrote:@Marble, I've got Screen in my sights for today. However, from the AtE and flailing going on, I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it. If anything, I'm a patient man.
Like, Eddie in this post straight-up, literally, says that he wants this lynch but wants it while sitting back and letting it play out without his involvement.
Like jesus christ guys this isn't rocket scienceIn post 1007, Llamarble wrote:I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.
I think it's Scummy af for you to try and use Llama's death to say Eddie is Scum. Llama was widely widely TR. That is why Llama was probably killed, not because of who Llama went after.
It's flat out mean spirited to be the loudest player in the game and berate me for having damn near every post in some way about CES and simply not trying hard enough, or not interacting with somebody that upon being prompted to say who is scum, does total bomb posts like 728 and 870 that are really only made to serve a purpose after he's dead to fuck with people. Or how he made a post that suggested Postie+Myself the moment Llamarble expressed uncertainty in Postie, then voted Postie, and when I asked him with a shit-eating grin to put it on paper that he was transparently was trying to push an angle of Postie and myself he ignored me.In post 1572, Ranmaru wrote:Lycan: Why are you voting CES without interacting with him, nor casing him? Why aren't you pushing for his lynch? How is your reads list looking like now?
See:
In post 660, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
What do you think of #446? Relevant context: none of those questions have received answers.In post 652, Llamarble wrote:My subconscious is really concerned about Postie.Instead of have you read into CES' posts as well as I have I get the headache inducing task of going through several pages of TvTs and either lead the town to the promised land or be a false prophet. My life would be a lot easier if you would stop having shitty reads and lynch obvious scum.
Okay that readslist
town: everyone not listed below this game is pretty easy
i don't care about rc tier: postie seriously fucking stop it
maybe scum: eddie, nsg
(when postie was gungho for eddie, Dan was putting a foot down on that one. Eddie is a Marquis voter, so is CES. Dan was/who the fuck knows anymore anti-Marquis, but Marquis is lynchbait so having differing opinions is good. 660 is pretty tame. ces shading someone is probably the easiest way to up someone's towncred. like someone getting a piece of trash thrown at them by a monkey at the zoo, you don't even feel bad about it, because they totally just got pelted with trash by a monkey.)
game is solved here: ces, dan
shilling my future mini theme game btw, theme is pubg. come for the headshots, stay for the chicken dinner. [disclaimer: not in queue, in review stage.]-
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yeah i guess dan doesn't want eddie at all i have no idea who i was thinking of when i said this, prob marquis by eod1.And on my read on Eddie, which is so relevant to you Ran, it's that he has dogshit reads with no reasons for them, but because he lined himself up in the crosshairs I thought he was town. He's subverting that now by being terse. Is he the third? If so, he's basically playing team captain here by being the only person to post by visually face tanking every other casepost while the other two want him dead to rights.-
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Brain is a bit full of fuck right now
Once already this morning I was phone posting something really good. I realized it didn't mesh with the conclusions I thought I was coming to. Tonight I made my thoughts more coherent and let my analysis take me to my conclusions. I'm happier than when I started, but I'd like to do some quid pro quo with Ran first.
Pretty much the circumstances of how he took Shea's pressure mixed in with a bit of Llamarble's. It culminated in posts likeIn post 1800, Ranmaru wrote:Lycanfire, you had LQ as a scum read Day 1. When and why did that change?
This is before Llamarble's game predict post where he began treating himself as already lynched. He's basically just egging it on.In post 476, LicketyQuickety wrote:It seems that I am a player who people seem somewhat polarized on. Given this, It might actually benefit Town if I am lynched, but then that takes away all my power to have an influence on the game based on my play and I think I can give Town a better chance at winning if I am not lynched. That said, if people remain to have polarizing views of me, then it's likely I will be able to stay in the game for a while because Scum will not NK someone they think they might be able to lynch. Given this, it puts a lot of pressure on me for my reads to be good and to produce good content. Most of this pressure is self induced because last time I survived to end game I used a method to try and solve the game that I put too much trust in and it ended up with me having a few of bad reads so I don't want to have another poor performance where I survive to late game to have a poor influence on helping my team win the game.
And I did really like that sod post I quoted before-
Scum love starting shit with NKs. NKA might be under-used, but it's also poorly used, and if it's a one liner at sod, it's not even analysis, it's just shit. Why does scum!LQ make this post-no, here's a better question. Why does scum!LQ make that post, at that time? If someone wants to earn towncred by making a voice of reason post, they can still let the fans be flamed by somebody else. Contributing at that moment in time was about as towniest as it was going to get-he could have done so later, and let people get tangled in bias, or let something catch on fire. Nope, it's time to proceed with day. Thank god.In post 1310, LicketyQuickety wrote:
And if I had a nickel for everytime Llama changed their scum reads I would probably have several dollars by now.In post 1309, Postie wrote:
I want to point out the dissonance in this. He implies that he strongly thinks Srceen is scum, but then says he wants to give him more time and isn't going to vote or push there.In post 1178, EddieFenix wrote:@Marble, I've got Screen in my sights for today. However, from the AtE and flailing going on, I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it. If anything, I'm a patient man.
Like, Eddie in this post straight-up, literally, says that he wants this lynch but wants it while sitting back and letting it play out without his involvement.
Like jesus christ guys this isn't rocket scienceIn post 1007, Llamarble wrote:I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.
I think it's Scummy af for you to try and use Llama's death to say Eddie is Scum. Llama was widely widely TR. That is why Llama was probably killed, not because of who Llama went after.
I'd like to ask you: can you explain your read on Gamma?
For everyone else: get rid of your fucking null reads. If you find someone town for X and scum for Y say it. You might not be the only one. You might be the only one, and nobody noticed X or Y. It doesn't matter if you're wrong, or hurt somebodys feelings. If some ill-fated push happens as a result, it won't be just because of you, so go ahead and reach for the stars, even if they're made of shit.-
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Something I need to point out in LQ vs Postie is that my Postie read (the "fuck rc tier") basically means: the more we've normalized RC's existence in this game, the more open Postie has been in letting him influence the game by proxy. Prior to this there was some doubt over whether he was playing puppeteer or not. My main concern is my ability to read Postie is not as good as my ability to read RC.
I feel like LQ was in part complicit in this a lot like other people were
I really don't know what result you expected to have happen as a result of asking this if anything besides having RC enter the thread.In post 895, LicketyQuickety wrote:@Postie, what is RC's read on me?-
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Okay those wagonomics. So like I said I was going into it with my own conclusion, and felt really good about it until I noted Eddie had two peaks at 5 (Marquis & CES). Neither were concurrent. Additionally, in both counterwagons, Gamma was a dubious supporter of both.
-The basic thesis is that at start of day, Eddie, Marquis LQ had morale for wagons against them. This has little to do with D1. I find this important because it defines people who are okay to wagon.
-Marquis appeared as a counter to Eddie. Ranmaru was the first voter, shifted gears, then was re-voted by Eddie. He peaked at three with Eddie, Gamma and CES all providing shit reasons ranging from it being sure scum, to a blind sheep vote of the former, to it "being the time" to lynch him.
-Ranmaru and LQ crossvote, Marquis votes Eddie and the wagon collapses
-Gamma votes LQ
-Marquis votes LQ
-CES votes Eddie
I don't think this disproves anything like CES-Dan-NSG. I'm capable of seeing trends, and each time I accused CES, Dan would come out and scumread me (1) or NSG would (twice). If any of these flip scum, I'm pretty sure the game is solved. I do find it hard to shake the immediate nature of the CES vote onto Eddie, which is basically aimed at Marquis for leaving. Up until I read into the game the Eddie wagon looked like Worst Damn Thing™ due to the cherry on top, but I do actually see a reason for the CES vote, and without observing any coherant plan launched on the Eddie wagon, I'm pretty comfortable with it right now. The LQ wagon on the other hand is poop.
okay so if you hate wall posts just stop reading here and skip to the next post or smth
(The paradigms "mafia plan" and "team of 3" have been bothering me all game day which is why I had a very much wait-and-see approach with CES, because my only rationalization was that the entire team was just lurking out.)
Continuing that thought, to go along with my "trendy wagons" theory, without trying to shoehorn myself into a conclusion.
I noted who was making which player socially acceptable to push since sod. Most of this was Postie on Eddie, and LQ on Postie. Here's the full results if anyone cares. What I consider to be shade might not be yours, so if you don't like it, go fuck yourself.
I considered this period to be over around this post, because afterwards we moved into Davsto's meta case on Eddie.lq postie(8) eddie(2) marq (1) gamma(1) dav(1) ran(1)
postie eddie(9) ran(1) shea(1)
ranmaru marquis(4) dan(1) postie(2) eddie(4) lq(4)
eddie lq(1) ces(1) ran(5) marq(3)
dun postie(1)
dav lq(1)
Ran essentially started the Marquis fire, but in my mind it isn't until Eddie's / Mastina's godread on Marquis that it became a "wagon" and hit the peak of 3. By this time, Ran had moved on. I feel it is pretty notable that in one post Ranmaru pointed at all three wagons of the day. If there was any deeper meaning to this post, I'd like to know it.In post 1356, Ranmaru wrote:I'm thinking the team is [LQ > Eddie > Marquis].
LQ:
LQ's post is force in his #888. LQ tries to shade my replace in his #829 Shea asked him if he why he didn't think my catchup was genuine, and responds saying that he laughed at me misrepresenting him, and fence sits his read on me. Yet, this has nothing to do with his point that I had no 'unique' reads. Seems like a slight back track of his original position. LQ throws shade at Screen in his #1058, and while null scum reading him in his #999. Yet, LQ doesn't join the wagon on Screen, he avoids it while poking at him. He then votes Postie, who he read as null in his #999, but has not stated a read change nor did he have any progression. My assumption is that he saw my case on her, and took the opportunity to place his vote on Postie to A) Draw associative between her and him, and B) To stay off the ScreenTOWN wagon. LQ's #1299 shows that he prefers to muddy the connection between himself and Postie, to drag her down in his eventual lynch.
Eddie:
Eddie's #1315 Shows he scumreads CES for hammering. Then, he votes Marquis in his #1320 while scumreading myself for no reason at all. In his #1336 he states I'm trying to draw off pressure from Postie (LQ v Postie), which contradicts his initial read of CES MARQ RAN. It shows that he has no genuine reads here, and is applying the same tactic LQ is, muddying his connection with myself to drag me down in his eventual lynch.
Marquis:
Marquis enters voting North following Postie, with weak reasoning in his #24. This is in response to Postie asking why he voted North, not a good response. Marquis states he is having a hard time getting into the game in his#381 but lurks for quite a bit and doesn't try to get back into it, which he admits to in #631 . He talks about who is scum on his wagon, LQ in his #455. He is sidelining while not really pushing anything, like in his #877 and then unvotes in his #879 and nothing else. He has progression for LQ but he never follows up with it. In general, he seems more interested in getting a good position in town, fails and gets wagoned, and then lurks out to survive and dodge the lynch. Then he comes in late with with 1226 voting LQ. It is badly timed, it does not seem genuine.
LQ and Eddie are both trying to muddy connections between universal town reads, since they seem to have no other option, or little options available to them. Today, we lynch either LQ or Eddie. Then the other the next day.
This is why I asked Ranmaru for their Gamma read: I actually like CES' read on Gamma better than Ranmaru's read. Considering I had been transparently been scumreading/townreading these players, we either need to get on the same page, or there's gonna be a lynch Ranmaru is going to disagree with down the line.
I'm going to VOTE: Eddie, because if peoples' reads are bad, it's because they're probably scum. He's had two counters to himself, both supported by Gamma. He's had every opportunity in the world to stick to CES, or not vote for lynchbait. I can be persuaded onto Gamma or put back on the true path of saying CES is scum all day. This is the only theory I can give beyond say everything is a giant TvT.
Who the third-anyone who pushed Eddie counters (Marq, Dav, Ran) or a lurksack. I'm happy to talk about this I guess.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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tldr
-Eddie doesn't have good reasons for his beliefs
-Gamma doesn't have good reasons for Eddie's beliefs
-Gamma countered Eddie twice
-Wagons of the day have been Eddie/LQ/Marquis. They were made acceptable by Postie and Ranmaru respectively.
-I can only stand on my head rationalizing tvts for so long before I start to see trends that might not be suspicious in nature. Send help.-
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Listen here you punk you just shit on hours of work and drinks with this voteIn post 1818, LicketyQuickety wrote:So I think I should put my money where my mouth is, because people don't see to be liking my idea of making actions to produce content over most everything else, so I am going here:
VOTE: Marquis-
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I said I wasn't running with a team in that single post where I gave 6 scumreads. It was to emphasize I was doing analysis in near isolation from where I left off to the end of LQ vs Shea. I never made any promises ofIn post 1842, Gamma Emerald wrote:So like the main issue I see with Lycan is hypocrisy. A fabulous example is him saying early in the game saying he won't take a team and run with it yet he's doing that -right now-. Another issue is him saying people ten to not be willing to reconsider their reads leading to "feely bullshit", which I somewhat see in his posts? Real convenient he left out any definition of what "feely bullshit" meansnotdoing this... Is this only a problem for you when you're in the team, or when I say CES/Dan/NSG it's super cool?
As for the latter comment. I said people not reading PAST their first gut feeling.... Is feely bullshit. I don't know what you think you're doing with this post, but it isn't doing whatever you think it's doing. Make more sense.
That's essentially why I was calling her lurksack every post, because she's aware of it. She's not exactly trying to avert it either, but people also aren't keen on wagoning CES, so. if we're going into bad territory and nsg is scum, it isn't with Eddie. Does your scumteam change and if so why?In post 1845, Ranmaru wrote:No, that was to Lycanfire. Yet I'd like for you and Lycanfire to ISO her and look at my #1821, then tell me what you think.
Does scum!Gamma blindly agree with Eddie's godread on Marquis post?In post 1847, LicketyQuickety wrote:P-Edit: I hope you can take this post as a consolation. I am thinking GE could be Scum here after all. I will look over that PYP game I played with him and see what I can get.-
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If you want a better answer, you need to give me a better question. Of course I'm going to tell you the interaction you saw wasn't SvS. I was pretty glad you saw how immediately Shea went onto LQ, because I definitely had a moment of "wow I wish I was a wolf right now" when he did that. So, I feel like if you were to scrutinize anything out of the encounter it would be that I was being in some way manipulative, because if there was a real agenda under the surface, LQ would have been lynched yesterday. That makes it a SvT interaction if you want to push that angle, but you suggested we were both wolves, so that didn't happen.In post 1808, Ranmaru wrote:Lycanfire: Meta. Gamma as scum doesn't really have interest in posting, from what I have seen. Gamma here has been saying sensible things and putting in work. His paranoia of me earlier Day 2 was also townie, not something I'd expect from scum him. Earlier you said that my conclusion on Shea was wrong (SvS) so I want to know, how did that conclusion affect your read on Shea and why?
How that affects my read on him... It made him town? Shea's posting was pretty flawed, going back and forth from saying someone is scum to treating them as halfway town, and defending Reck. I feel like this is all pretty consistent in someone triple guessing their reads, so when I pointed it out, having him go hard on LQ wasn't all that surprising.
I think what I need from Shea right now is some direction out of him. He's a patron of the Eddie wagon but briefly humored my read on CES and Dan. Meanwhile he dislikes Dunnstral while I like Dunnstral. We're now on the same wagon, but our reads feel pretty desynced.-
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I think tier list shitposts should be left to the person that has Ranger on their team.
What does this have to do with Eddie?In post 1876, Ranmaru wrote:On [Eddie, Marquis, NSG] team, I want to mention that Marquis's #24 is weird and feels like he voted North to distance.-
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Lycanfire
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I don't think it's unfair to ask if you're still for this.In post 1857, Thestatusquo wrote:It seems disingenuous to accuse me of not having a direction simply because the direction I have is different from yours, lycan.
Explain this for me.In post 1859, Postie wrote:My top scumread after Eddie is Dunnstral, based on PoE and the timing of his vote.
Here's a thought: townies tend to think I'm scum (except lately, probably because I don't set out to be an outlier anymore). Scum shit themselves when they see my posts because they see a marble chiseled statue bleeding town and know God can't save them.In post 1860, Gamma Emerald wrote:Alright then. I guess that a fair response and to be expected but I felt like it might get something out of you. Also more shade yippee! Like, I never said which team I took issue with. I took issue with CES-AD-nsg because it seems you're kinda ignoring evidence against that, as shown with you not taking in the fact scum have daytalk in this game and adjusting your AD-CES reads based on that.
Dan said I was scum when I was pushing CES. I fell behind in the game and did a catch up post, during which CES didn't make a post. I explained my reads on everything transparently, poked where I thought I had to poke, encouraged behavior I thought was good and expressed others didn't hit the mark (Llamarble, Tchill) all at the same time.
This gives me a solid townread from Dan. Did he have bad reasons to townread me the second time around? Maybe not, but after the kneejerk of challenging my "reading past / feely bullshit" comment that was the pointy end of my case on CES, he went from apprehensive towelcomingof my presence. I was never challenged by Dan again. If I'm really so townie, maybe I ought to be directed onto who is scum and not given a pass for being a townie. I'm worth it, just saying.
So upon being told there is daytalk there was nothing for me to consider beyond that besides to shrug. That doesn't explain away the word choice used (I mean, it's not like they were saying "not town" which is a common complaint for people-they both used a made up word, "scumitude"). Doesn't explain the visible challenge CES and Dan had for one other over Marquis. It didn't explain why they townread each other. It didn't explain how CES could talk Dan into 'looking into it'. There's no evidence to the contrary of any of this: these things happened, and that's fact.
Saying there's evidence against in-thread communication is all fine and dandy, but the entire exercise isn't built on that premise. The final clincher was implying there was a nefarious purpose playing out in-thread (we should lynch marquis, no, we should not lynch marquis. no, we should definitely consider lynching marquis.) See it this way: I point out that two scumfucks are jogging together, and I say they were going to the supermarket. Anybody sneering at me saying I can't know that is severely missing the point that two scumfucks are jogging together. Also Marquis is a supermarket.
I called you scum, but not with LQ (or Dan).In post 1860, Gamma Emerald wrote:At this point I don't recall anytime you actually called me scum but I am reminded of something I wanted to ask you: if my "defense" of eddie was so bad, why don't you seem to suspect me for it? And shouldn't you also suspect eddie based on that?
Previously I said you defended Eddie. You responded by saying it wasn't a defense of Eddie. You said you were engaging/questioning him, when about 27% of the quotes you responded to contained questions. 100% of those were meatballs. Your conclusion in the post in question... "My opinion of Eddie so far: he seems a bit off-color at points but it's nothing horrible." This is either a defense or a non-stance. Take your pick This conclusion was made after a long winded spoilered post, which you have to stop doing (also, don't vote in spoilers again), you provided commentary to Eddie's post, and after the second time someone "jumping you", you excused his blank vote on you and blamed it on Shea.
I never actually called you scum this post, I simply remarked that while I didn't think that a wolf doesn't talk to a wolf in 506, you were performing mental gymnastics to attribute blame for bad behavior that was not Shea's fault. Reading the Damn Thread™ is apparently shade. Not exactly the conclusion you ought to be coming to.
That's the opposite of leaving options open. That's putting real thoughts on paper and sending it through the post.In post 1860, Gamma Emerald wrote:I have another grievance with the post where that was brought up: the "thoughts" feel like useless analysis. You kept saying "these aren't s v s" with out making any conclusions. Thinking about it just now it feels like leaving options open.What exactly do I gain from this as scum?If the answer is "looking townie", is this scumhunting?
Gamma:how do you feel about being strung up with rope after an Eddie scumflip?-
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Post your thoughts not Kmds. Even go reach for the shit stars. It's better than not posting.In post 1947, northsidegal wrote:as for why i've been gone i don't really have an answer, every time i go to start a post i either don't or i start something and then delete it for being too bad-
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wasn't sure what idiom to go with, ebwopIn post 1952, Lycanfire wrote:
Post your thoughts not Kmds. Go reach for the shit stars. It's better than not posting.In post 1947, northsidegal wrote:as for why i've been gone i don't really have an answer, every time i go to start a post i either don't or i start something and then delete it for being too bad-
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sure you canIn post 1966, northsidegal wrote:
around the time that boonskiies flipped scum. i'm not sure how much more i can elaborate on it.In post 1964, Lycanfire wrote:When did your read on Dan change?
you said dan preferred scum. he said that he prefers town. my team told me d1 that he prefers town. i noted to them that he posts more as town. if this has to do with dan picking scum, you can still talk about it.
was there anything else readable from him?-
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you care too much about people that aren't in this gameIn post 1968, Ranmaru wrote:Also still interested in KMD's notes.-
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LQ, Gamma is locktown. He doesn't have enough viable partners. I'm convinced enough that everyone else on the site breaks and scumclaims after being pushed by me yet I don't have any real reason to suspect him anymore with Eddie gone. I can't rationalize his interactions with Eddie as anything besides town. For instance, scum have no business sticking their necks out with that spoiler post unless it served some kind of function. If it can't be solving (because it's suicidal), or distancing (because Eddie wasn't scum), was it muddying waters? There's more to the point ways to do that, and if someone does do that, they aren't spoiling their post. Scumwantthe town to see dirty laundry. This is counter-intuitive to harming postflip associations.
Besides, Rosa has been spewing Gamma town through meta since day 1. Something about being as easy to read as Zachstral the moment they get pushed. It's incidental, but Rosa and Ranmaru are right too.
Where my reads are today: it's day 3 and CES is voting Marquis again. I don't see the case on Marquis beyond peacing out on the early pressure. Just about everything he's said this game has been forgettable. Maybe he's flying under the radar, but I don't give a shit. He's here on day 3 selling the same promise as day 1, with no wagon data in hand, no associatives to be found, doesn't give a shit about interactions, or whether anyone else cares about his reads. Somehow like flies to shit Davsto, Postie, Gamma, Eddie, Dunnstral, LQ, and Ranmaru have all voted there at least once, but he never managed to get this great lynch.
Reminder that Gamma and Postie were shit reads he came up with EoD1 to justify not working with the town. Then when push comes to shove and lynchbait is being served he's okay with lending a hand, for some damn reason. Also Dunnstral is blatant town, but never mind any of that, or the fact that they vote Marquis with him. Definitely upper spectrum scum we're dealing with here.Marquis: 60%
Eddie: 55%
GE: 30%
Postie: 25%
Dunn: 25%
ActionDan: 25%
northsidegal: 20%
LQ: 20%
Davsto: 15%
Lycan: 10%
TSQ: 10%
Ranmaru: 5%
About the only thing memorable from Marquis is that he consistently wanted Gamma/LQ with a sprinkle of NSG for most of the game while simultanously townreading CES' nonsense because geriatric.In post 1505, Marquis wrote:
like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.In post 1471, MathBlade wrote:EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum
and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.
Meanwhile despite scumreading nsg for never being around, he gave out a truckload of nulls for people for the same reason in 1481.
So is Marquis scum? I could see it, but how can CES know that with such certainty, certainty that suddenly melts away whenever the town locks the lynch for the day? There's never a threat of a tipping point or a push vote if any possibility of a Marquis lynch immediately collapses. That's sus as fuck.
Meanwhile there's Dan, who CES not only talked into scumreading Marquis by EoD1, but he himself was also actively distracting from his own petread. What is the point in any of that? And, sure enough Dan comes on board by the end of the day, probably to show some kind of progress in the game. Whatever.
So, Ranmaru, back to where my reads are today. They're back to the egg.
VOTE: CES
Lynch this shit with fire.-
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Don't think too hard about the NK nowIn post 2223, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:also looks like it's answering the question "why did Postie survive N1?" rather than "why did Postie die N2?"). I feel like I need to re-read; the Postiekill especially worries me since it suggests scum were happier taking out a slightly scummy player with unknown reads than a more town-looking player with known reads. Davsto has just generally sounded town to me; that's one player I should probably take a slightly closer look at.-
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Preface: I know I'm ignoring questions I'm phoneposting
LQ you said you hated the Marquis wagon based on wagonomics yesterday. Can you explain your feelings on that for me?
Also, I feel like Dunnstral made a big vote off Marquis D1 onto Tchill. You townread Dunnstral, and TRed him yesterday simultanously as well. How do you reconcile both these game reads?-
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Town. I like how he's unwavering in saying Davsto is free to scumread him.In post 2226, Ranmaru wrote:Lycanfire, what is your read on Shea?
I was criticizing CES forIn post 2240, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why not? Lack of NKA is one of the reasons town don't do as well currently.nottrying hard to justify the NK. I think doing it without coming to good conclusions is worse than not doing it at all.
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I'll be plain here: I think Postie was killed because I PoEd LQ away from Postie yesterday. I also PoEd Gamma away from LQ in the past (see: that page they were both scumming it up in my catch up post). It's notable that LQ had gone on Gamma today.
Since day 2 LQ has been voted by: Marquis, Gamma, Ranmaru pretty consistently.
WagonData wrote: Gamma Emerald (3) ~ ActionDan, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety 853
LicketyQuickety (3) ~ Ranmaru, Srceenplay, Gamma Emerald 961
Postie also had conflict with Ranmaru, but that was precipitated on an Eddie scumslip. I don't know if Ranmaru and RC have history together, but I don't think Ranmaru kills Postie with an Eddie townflip, because he's doing pretty well to fool RC in that case. So if Ranmaru kills Postie, it's incidental, and has another underlying reason like removing a locktown on an LQ flip.
Okay, also I have no idea what Ranmaru has to do with this! Gamma isn't being lynched though.In post 2253, LicketyQuickety wrote:@Lycan,
I am a firm believer that no one is "lock Town" unless they are confirmed by the mod to be Town. Also, don't give me that "there are no associations with Ran" because we haven't got a red flip yet. So no, Ran is not clear. If you have a very good reason to say why he is Town, that is one thing, but to say he is lock Town is not something I can roll with.
Dunnstral's meta-case on Tchill seemed well intentioned. Something I'm not seeing come up in the simultaneous Dunnstral/Marquis reads is that nobody is mentioning how Dunnstral hopped off Marquis onto Tchill. Frankly, if Marquis is scum, he's getting bussed hard this game, and actually going through with it might be to the scum team's benefit. There's not much of a reason in hopping off there. Similarly if he's town, Dunnstral is hopping off one town wagon to another. Does he need to stick his neck out for that? I would argue that is actually counter-intuitive to lynching Tchill/Screenplay, because the result you'd expect is the result he received: Llamarble immediately suspected him for it, which weakened morale for lynching Tchill.In post 2265, northsidegal wrote:To lycan: "scum!dunn is incapable of original thought", he asks what original thought dunn has given this game and questions what dunn has helped town to do this game (in response to another thing lycan said)
When Dunnstral is scum he will use other peoples talking points: when he's town he makes his own.
I have a question for you or whatever teammate is playing your slot today: why the fuck do you attack Dunnstral's meta case while simultaneously townreading Marquis?
Post something coherent.
This was posted 40 posts after he agreed with Eddie on lynching Marquis / Dunnstral as a townread.In post 1375, LicketyQuickety wrote:If it was the first time I talked about wagonomics ITT, you might have a point, but it wasn't. I talked about not liking the Marquis wagon due to wagonomics. Also, from what you quoted, I thought I had mentioned something earlier than that about not liking the Chill wagon. You should go back and check that.
Why not lynch CES first?In post 2274, LicketyQuickety wrote:Tell Math I understand why he is seeing me teamed with CES. I haven't said a lot about him. My read for CES is mostly based on the fact that he isn't saying the same thing that everyone else is and he has new insights into players. I view this as really strong Pro-Town behavior because Scum rarely care about bringing in new insights into the game. Scum is primarily concerned with pushing and agenda and they don't need to provided new insights into the game to do that. That said, IF Marquis flips Town, and I highly doubt he will, then I would look at CES a lot closer.
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My problem: if I can do more work casing or gaining reads than other people, that's scummy as fuck. I'm seeing lazy reads (CES, NSG), lazy explanations (LQ). I'm willing to believe that Postie was a freebie kill on someone that can deliver a lynch, so we're going to lynch CES first instead of play guess the scum motive. God bless.-
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I had a Big Ass Post™ ready this morning, hit ctrl+z instead of ctrl+x and lost a quote and response and couldn't fix things between the 600 tabs I had open. I ran out of time.In post 2306, Ranmaru wrote:I think you can answer my question easily. How are you reading Shea and why, Lycan? Simple question, just want what is at the top of your head.
To me I had already answered / was popping by to get what I needed at the moment.-
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Your unwavering TR of Dunnstral, mixed with random shadeposts on him, wagonomics post v Marquis, while supporting Marquis' lynch, while doing nothing to reconcile your reads. I don't feel like any of this is real. The Postie kill is just extra-skirt asked me if I'm the kill, and I told him Shea was because I'm a fuckwit that is letting other people influence me. The Postie kill has some kind of function (you did it, somebody wants me to think you did it.) I don't actually give a shit about why Postie died, or if you killed her. I'm here to smash this game and pull my team ahead from any tie break scenarios, so you get to deal with angry Lycan for the rest of the day.In post 2314, LicketyQuickety wrote:Well, I think I picked a good day to clean my closet because pretty much NOTHING has happened in this thread today.
Lycan, I see your post. I feel like... IDK what you are doing there.. why are you what looks like shading me when you had me as strong Town not too long ago? How did that read change?
Bus CES.-
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Shady as fuck when you said something along the lines of finally working together. I don't think you were attempting to pocket him. If that's wolfy, it's because burying the hatchet in thread ties up loose ends so gymnastics don't need to be used to suddenly explain why teammates that shouldn't know that they're teammates are working together for no good reason. 2288 isn't an attempt to pocket you, because you already know your self-meta and that shouldn't convince you of anything.
This is apprehensive, but you're both spammy and stuck in the thread together. "hey let's throw stuff at each other and see what happens" could be a fun game to play...In post 2182, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Nope. It's dependent on you giving your read (and most importantly why) first.In post 2181, Ranmaru wrote:Here's what I can do: After you give your case on Gamma, I can explain my Gamma Town Read, and link you to the games I have played with him. That's it. When I reference his meta, I'm talking about games I have played with him. (Hint: I've already referenced two of them)
Did you read the games you asked for, LQ? What did you gain from reading those games?
Some kind of gotchaIn post 2185, Ranmaru wrote:I've already answered your meta question, so you have already seen it. #2068
Now explain your Gamma Scum read.
LQ suddenly breaks from the exchange to talk to the town. A lot more calmly than he did day 1 when I had pressed him and suddenly switched between "he" and "you" a good three times in the same paragraph. Calm nerves.In post 2189, LicketyQuickety wrote:So that would be the read.
Ran's defense of Gamma is completely unwarranted. He keeps saying it's a meta read, but he has yet to demonstrate how this game is any different that Gamma's other games. The reason I wanted people to look at Gamma's games is to show that Gamma is remarkably good at copying his Town meta. So then for Ran to just give these lame ass "reasons" for a "Meta Read" which isn't even a distinction between his Town and Scum games shows something funny is going on here.
some kind of opposite of gotcha, no idea why this post is even madeIn post 2191, LicketyQuickety wrote:That said, I asked Ran for his meta read on Gamma, and hopefully people see that Ran's meta read of Gamma is BS.
[...] a lot of floundering
This post puts a lot of attention on LQ when someone like Davsto or even Shea might jump on this.In post 2197, Ranmaru wrote:Like I said, I'll show you what I mean later. I think you are town, and think this is not helping us find actual scum. You are just being distracting right now. Reason for not casing Gamma as town: I didn't need to. I've already explained the gist. If you really need me to explain (which you have already asked questions about, and I have said I will get back to you on that) I shall. Your case isn't really a case. Also, don't spam. You are being anti-town.
I don't hide that I have misgivings towards you based on associations with LQ. I do think Dan would be a more likely third. Marquis is never scum on an LQ-CES team, because wolves like LQ don't talk to wolves like Marquis. I don't think scum LQ misses scum Dunnstral's vote swap D2 either. I'd prefer to bag CES first because that should hang the third out neatly and solve the game.-
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I literally said in my next post that my vote was made because I noted CES' vote as bad and wanted to wait out RVS and see how other people would react to it instead of exit RVS. What lack of reasoning is there exactly? I smudged my vote tag on purpose so I could point back to it as being irregular.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:Lycanfire: Lycanfire votes Shea in his #70, without any reasoning at all, which shows he doesn't care to progress RVS.
In post 223, Lycanfire wrote:
It was an RVS vote because I didn't want to leave RVS. I wanted to make a sillier looking vote but I somewhat felt bad for Mathblade so I made it coherent enough to be picked up by their web bot.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan
Do you usually need reasons for RVS votes?In post 225, Lycanfire wrote:
This is the entire point behind Llamarble's play. This is a problem I see too often: players want certain other players to flip a certain way, so they stick with their first gut instinct instead of fully absorbing what other people are doing. This amounts to feely bullshit.In post 135, Tchill13 wrote:llamarble is quite the confident player. Already isssued a warning about being NK'd if he's sorted. Not a fan of players talking about they'll get NK'd this early in the game.
Llamarble is obviously putting all the attention on himself to rile up opportunistic scum. CES immediately jumps on it. I don't like Llamarble talking himself up on a personal level - it's pretentious - so why does he post it? It's because anyone that would actually raise an issue with it is crippled, reaching for low hanging fruit.In post 68, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Agreed.In post 35, Llamarble wrote:Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.
Vote: 'marble
If we want people to take such micro scum tells, we have to be more rigorous. You can't just lump in a mid-word ellipsis with general ellipses.In post 47, Llamarble wrote:F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.
I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.In post 67, Postie wrote:Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.
VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
Open wolf seasonIn post 214, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
You don't think his catch-up-style entry to the game felt forced? I'm assuming he's used to a spammier meta than we are and catching up on a 4/5 page game seems weird to me. Achieving a natural game entry as scum is generally not trivial, especially given the Marquiswagon, and this seems like an affectation that would let him sidestep the essential difficulty.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.
What's the point of this comment, unless the point is to make me feel bad about everyone in my life demanding more from me?In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:He states he is busy in his [urlhttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=9907370#p9907370]#430[/url] which is a recurring excuse.
... I expressed this read laser pointed at Dan, within minutes of him posting shit reads to see if he would go back on Gamma (to closely align with CES' reads) or change his mind and say Marquis is scum (... to closely align with CES' reads) or pull another name out of a hat (which would be amusing). He lurked it out... And later came up with Gamma and Marquis.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:In his #932 he states Eddie and Dunn are lynch bait, but doesn't really look into people that are pushing Dunn.
Yes, congrats on spamming the thread at that time. You made for a fun game.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:He returns to his CES vote #1369, while not trying to push the wagon even though he says he wants people to be on it. In his #1575 he states he didn't do much with it or interact with him due to previous pages being TvT, which doesn't seem believable to me. In his #1669 He states his underperformance is due to people not wanting to play, which is another excuse.
I gave reasons for all of them. Point out which ones you don't like.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:He also states my global reads needs changes but he doesn't have solid reads to back his up, especially his town reads.
Mastina's godread was awful. Gamma sheeping that was awful. All great conclusions you couldn't come up with yesterday.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:His read on Eddie is mabye scum, for voting Marquis, who he feels is lynchbait. His #1839 seems like a big effort to move from the CES wagon he was sitting on onto Eddie who he was reading as maybe scum.
You were going for NSG hardcore for being a lurksack. I went on NSG for having a sucky read on Dan. Again, you're welcome for doing the legwork that you're incapable of doing.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:A wagon analysis before he flips, not after. After my interaction with him, he seemed to get better at interacting near the end of Day 2, but it doesn't do much to improve my read on him.
For the last three days you've asked me to justify my read on Shea. At what point am I supposed to revise my read? If he's town he's town, and I'm not going to look through windows for trash when there's a dumpster right in front of me. I don't need to poke and prod at a townie to stop voting a townie when that flashpoint can get scum to justify shit reads (see: LQ, Dan, NSG re: Dunnstral.) Lynchbait is lynchbait for a reason.In post 2347, Ranmaru wrote:He town reads Shea for being unwavering with Davo's scumread on him, but that's it. It's a bit weak, and he hasn't really tried to sort him, nor did he ask about his direction on Dunnstral, who he believes is lynchbait. Scum. His read on Shea doesn't really factor in that Shea is pushing for Dunn when Lycanfire stated Dunn was lynchbait. Again, showing that he said that only to say that, not actually backing that up.
Vote CES.
I want him
You want him
Shea gave brief interest in ces and dan yesterday
LQ said he wanted him on a Marquis townflip
NSG has a teammate saying to lynch him, paid some attention to the prospects of ces and dan
Davsto last put CES at null and agreed with him on some point later on. Focusing too hard on LQ/Gamma, no idea where he stands
Gamma doesn't want CES but is neverscum with CES.
Dunnstral doesn't want CES, got miffed at Shea when he got poked in the eyes on how he was talking to him
Marquis last townread CES two weeks ago. isn't scum with lq, could be getting turbo bused on a dan team.
Dan briefly said CES was scummy then explicitly townreads CES and has offered no new content on the matter. They're partners so who gives a shit about getting his vote.
There's 5 people that want him. We need 6 to lynch. One of the five that don't agree will flip.
Let me ask you Ran: if I'm partners with CES would I be getting this much resistance? I had two critical moments yesterday where I hinted I was happy ignoring all the supplementary evidence I found and would drop it all to vote CES. - 1839, 1855. In your theory where the choice is pre-determined by a scumteam, is there a strong scum motive in calling out a teammate for lacking a continuity in reads or asking if there was ever a possibility in lynching CES?
2347 is your worst post since your global read one. You're not reading into the game in any meaningful way. Just about every point you have on the board to scumread me hilariously should be a reason to townread me. There shouldn't be a universe where you townread Dan's dogshit read on Dunnstral - 927, epic intermezzo (CES, what do I say? edition): 1144, 1698 (double exclam, this one is for you, chesskid!!), 1705, 1708, (makes a post that boils down to "i townread everyone") > 1988 at least he remembered to at least look like he's taking the wind out of Eddie's wagon with the followup post. Back to live! 2318 -> no mention of Dunnstral switching votes D1 despite simultaneous Dunnstral/Marquis scumreads all game; cares more about the D2 vote switch when it really didn't matter. I can't smell what Dan is cooking, because he's a fake chef. Fake meal.-
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Why hop off one town wagon in favor of another? It would make more sense to scumread Dunn over this for someone like Dan, who scumreads them both - except he doesn't care because he's a wolf - Dunnstral didn't have a reason that is more likely than "probably legitimately believes Tchill posting in other games is indicative". The only scum motive I could plausibly see here is wanted to look like a more cohesive part of the town, because the Marquis wagoners (wgeurts/Davsto, CES) aren't exactly town MVPs. That has to beat out "but I felt pretty much the same way so his reasoning is good".In post 2356, northsidegal wrote:could you explain the inconsistency there between the meta case and marquis? i'm not really seeing it.-
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I never promised one. I was explicitly saying the post I was making wasn't final. I was prefacing the reads I was giving and ended up getting flak over it anyway.In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:you never actually finished your full reads list as you promised around that time.
I made 9 different reads in the post you're criticizing. On every single person that posted between posts 225 to 324. I furthered my read on every single player on the list.In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:Just goes to show that you aren't really that committed to progressing the game.
you're really lacking in self awareness. i'm not even going to paraphrase what skirt has to say about you, because i don't feel like making you replace out. he still thinks you're town, though.In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:Don't try to use my activity as an excuse, when I rarely go over two posts. (Only in rare exceptions to I exceed that in cases like my reads list and responses)
In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:Here is one read I didn't like: Your Shea read, it's weak.In post 430, Lycanfire wrote:Shea - asks the questions that popped into my head as I was reading, and even one i would have otherwise missed (#250) sorting of LQ seems genuine (or at least this is not s/s). i feel that by being easily baited into discussing reck's feelings he had first feelings of doubts, and began pausing each time he interacted with a scumread. 265 isn't exactly a 'push', it's very awkwardly worded. (for someone that said "okay we have our first" shea isn't exactly lowering the boom with "if you're town you're not going a good job". particularly in 270 I feel like Shea is so focused on Reck's read that he is unable to see what is in front of him. In 293 he does the exact same thing, in fact the strange wording with Gamma comes back but is directed towards LQ here at the end. My read on Shea is that he is too easily baited into questioning Reck's read that he himself is not putting in the work in the area Reck pointed him in. The entirety of @Drunkards should listen to him talk about the game rather than the other way around.In post 1669, Lycanfire wrote:This is a pr good post because seeing Shea go so ham on LQ afterwards made me feel like a scumfuck. I did pretty much the exact same in Darkest Dungeon but my intentions were meant to be good by getting my highest tr going instead of defending someone that isn't in the game. I'm glad you picked up on this and all but is the conclusion (Shea and I are scum) really justified here? Isn't it SvT, like somehow I felt out to manipulate Shea... Or an alternate universe where a fire is fanned and LQ gets lynched around the time he started getting defeatist about that eventuality? I feel like you saw something weird and decided to make sense of it but really just glossed over the easiest conclusion that Shea held back when he shouldn't have and let it loose when it was pointed out he was justified in doing something besides playing D for Reckoner.In post 2309, Lycanfire wrote:Town. I like how he's unwavering in saying Davsto is free to scumread him.
What exactly am I supposed to do and for what reasons am I supposed to do them? All I have isIn post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:You should have re-vised your reads today but you show no signs of doing so.morereasons for my beliefs. I've sat back - too much already - thinking about other options, when the scumteam is god damn obvious, and get to deal with unrealistic amounts of noise whenever I want to push the lynch I want. Be less noisy.
We'll see.In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:I'm not voting CES today.
The most sure he was on anything was floating LQ/Eddie as scum. Doesn't fit on an LQ team because of how he pushed LQ (over Eddie) or how they interacted in 456-458. Wagon data for both days says LQ is never scum with Marquis.In post 2363, Ranmaru wrote:What's your read on Marquis?
This is his best post all game and then he ruins it by townreading CES later. Marquis never gets lynched before CES. Frankly his reads are bad, he's happy to assign null, could easily be be giving as little information as possible in the event of his lynch. If he's the third, literally something like "so are you guys going to keep voting me?" "yes" must be playing out often for the scumteam. Being demoralized could be indicative of being bussed as well. I'm not sure what more I can say-because despite his post count-there isn't much to say, and I'm increasingly aware that there's likely no more than 1 scum in {marquis, lq, nsg}, so I'm more happy with what I already have (he isn't scum with LQ). Happy to see an ending where a gun is pointed to Dan's head to see him ride out the game ending lynch. The smarter lynch is Dan, by the way. I'm the only one that would be allowed to do a meme ending. Everyone else has to vote Dan.In post 1505, Marquis wrote:
like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.In post 1471, MathBlade wrote:EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum
and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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I'm going to be real here - I was under the impression that the Davsto replace didn't happen until after this. Maybe it doesn't make Dunnstral transparently towny by way of wagon data, but I liked his reasoning, while for that last part it makes more sense for people scumreading Dunnstral to also scumread Marquis. Dan in particular cares about a vote change that he shouldn't (d2) in favor over the one that he should care about (d1-hinting CES-Dan-Marquis). LQ also brings up wagonomics as a reasonIn post 2362, northsidegal wrote:the scum motivation in this switch seems obvious – accelerate the mislynch that looks like it's actually going through and the one for which an extremely easy / surface level meta "case" can be made. also, i can't really comprehend what the bolded is meant to be saying – could you elaborate / clarify that?againstvoting Marquis... while simultaneously townreading Dunnstral. He later comes through on voting Marquis again, while Dunnstral remains a townread.
Congratulations on posting something coherent! While we're on a roll here can you explain your thoughts on Dan treating CES like town D1, and only floats him as scum D2, and how he voted Dunnstral over Marquis yesterday? Does your readslist take this into account at all?-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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alexjonesyourescum.mp3In post 2366, Lycanfire wrote:Congratulations on posting something coherent! While we're on a roll here can you explain your thoughts on Dan treating CES like town D1, and only floats him astownD2, and how he voted Dunnstral over Marquis yesterday? Does your readslist take this into account at all?-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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I accept that LQ slipped up in 1375 and had meant Tchill, but while looking more at LQ-Dunnstral interactions I saw this:
Which leaves me with a different question: in what way did you dislike the Tchill wagon?In post 846, LicketyQuickety wrote:
I'll get to responding to your case on me point by point after this.In post 844, Ranmaru wrote:@LQ: Can you explain how the motivation I am ascribing isn't there point by point? I don't see CES shaking things up. He seems more conservative/reserved until recently. How do you feel about his early Marble vote? Finally, where have you actually posted your reasoning for scum reading Tchill?
@TSQ: Fair enough my dude.
I've said Chill is a meta read. I've played (I think) back to back games where Chill was Scum. Then Dunn dropped the bomb that Chill is a lot more active as Town and that made me feel better about Chill being Scum. But I am still torn on Chill because there is pretty much zero resistance to the Chill wagon. What Llama says about the wagon being primarily Town motivated doesn't make sense if Chill is Scum with the consideration that there is not hardly even a competing wagon to Chill as of last VC.
TBH, I would have to look up where CES voted for Marqu because I don't remember that. The way I see CES shaking things up is in that he has a different perspective that the "dominant" players in this game. He is going up stream instead of going with the flow. So while he has not been a prolific poster, he still has enough content that I would say is "different" than what everyone else is saying to where I think this gives Town +EV if ECS is Town, which is what I am leaning towards.
In post 2053, LicketyQuickety wrote:Why Dunn? Why Dunn over AD, Marq, and CES?
Why Dunn? Why is a wagon suddenly forming on Dunn out of all the lurkers?
Again so why not CES, LQ?-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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