TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sigh

Dannflor thinks I'm about to die and is insistent that I put out there a theory he and Jingle have been kicking around that it's Shea/Ramcius.

They're wrong.

I’m not seeing it but would still be very interested in reading it. Can you post this? I think reading it would be helpful regardless.

[Nancy Drew 39]

now im expecting the question, "mist, are you even playing the same game as us"

the answer is probably not! i have ignored all the things that i do not want to see which is like 60% of this game

it is not productive to solving but this game has been very heated and i do not read through that well

Then I'm afraid you need to grow up as well. Ignoring 60% of the game and basing your reads on the polite parts is a great way to get biased and incomplete reads.

Nah, it’s up to players not to contaminate the game with ridiculously toxic amounts of ArE. Seriously stop it with thr Akarin/Misty/me need to grow up crap, it’s not helping - not even remotely. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

worth noting that ico had norwee and TSQ as hard town

so that's probably not the team because they kill like, nancy over ico

Scum also sees me as more pocketable.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Votecount 1.10

zoraster(4)

~ NorwegianboyEE(80), Nancy Drew 39(110), TheGoldenParadox(29), thestatusquo(96)

!

@Nancy scum is 100% in this

If either/both you and Pine are town or even if you’re not, both of you but especially YOU have/are shooting yourselves in the foot but insulting either/all Akarin/Misty/me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm not (helping to) kill today:

Nancy/TSQ/Norwee

pending stuff that needs adressing, i may or may not wanna kill:

TGP
FL

slots that I would have no problem yeeting today:

Pine/Deb/Akarin/Ramc (these are in order or preference)

Dann's rationale is that we can assume that TGP/FL/Pine/Akarin are all Town, which means the only one on his list who he's threatening is Ramcius, while impeding a Norwegian elim.

I was hard tr Ram until he made that ridiculous DEB post, which seemed overblown to me as well as him saying that Creature’s comparing my play here to some 3 yr old scumgame that I barely remember. But then he’s been pushing practically everyone in the game but something about his push on me seemed really fake. I do think scum!Ram would be a busser if scum here. Don’t ask me why I’m saying this because I can’t respond to it.

Problem is, I also thought that on TGP as well but I still think the way Ram pushed me here was different than in LNT but other things he’s done townping me but I still think it’s possible.
Math is disagreeing with Titus’ VCA but then he’s convinced it’s FL/Pine/Norwee.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You've said I'm town the literal whole game, strongly at several points, but now I'm scum because...you still haven't given any reasons. You've just attacked norwee and suggested I'm norwees buddy with no rationale.

This corresponds to me finding your claim dubious and literally no other shift. You can keep shading me, but you haven't given a single reason why I'm scum that I even need to argue against and given that I think you're scum I'm not really inclined to engage you much more than I am here.

Yes, it did kind’ve read to me like let’s find Norwee’s likely buddy than a decent scumcase on you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dannflors read on me is not real. Tell him i know him better than that.

It is on me but he would also give that read as scum but it does sound incredibly earnest.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine and FL have given up on logical arguments and are continuing this disgusting shaming and treating me like i don’t have feelings or am insensitive to their blatant insults and attack on my personality. It’s sad how far people will go in order to win.
Misty/Nancy please just vote.

I want to hear Jingle and Dann’s Ram/Shea thing and I’m not voting anyone until I do.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Letting FL constantly talk about the same things is only going to make the game more demotivated. There's something named morale, and it's important.

Sorry to break it to you but that ship has already long sailed.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Misty are partly to blame for the toxicity in this game right now because they are enabling FL and Pine’s behaviour by not voting.

Are you fucking kidding me with this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Misty are partly to blame for the toxicity in this game right now because they are enabling FL and Pine’s behaviour by not voting.

This is the most toxic post all game.

This is actual emotional blackmail.

It’s definitely the dumbest.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ugh

hey akarin/nancy can y'all talk to me when you're online

I’m here now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.13

Akarin(4)

~ thestatusquo(73), Mistyx(65), Nancy Drew 39(197), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(3)

~ Flavor Leaf(325), Ramcius(58), Pine(52)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(217)


Not Voting (3): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(10), Akarin(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la

Votecount 2.14

TheGoldenParadox(3)

~ Nancy Drew 39(257), Akarin(49), Ramcius(63)

Akarin(3)

~ thestatusquo(88), Mistyx(68), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(407), Pine(52)

Pine(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(277)


Not Voting (2): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la
  
• Prodding TheGoldenParadox

Votecount 2.17 - Final

TheGoldenParadox(6)

~ Nancy Drew 39(286), Akarin(49), Ramcius(70), Iconeum(223), Mistyx(71), NorwegianboyEE(318)

-- HAMMER

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(420), Pine(56)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(17)

Akarin(1)

~ thestatusquo(90)


Not Voting (1): Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• That's it for Day 2!

okay i got some from titus about yesterday's VCA

she thinks DEB not voting is indicative of the wagons being TvT, and thinks scum are probably sheeping there

and thinks that Ram following nancy fills that idea

Math disagrees but yeah I think this is really interesting.

@Pine, please post Jingle/Dann’s Ram/Shea case please.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have a question, do strongman go through commute?

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

These were the ones which made Jingle yell at me in all-caps that he was Town.

There's no scum upside to exploring this issue. He's solving the game through the setup. Scum either sticks their fingers in their ears and goes LALALALA KILL THE STRONG PR (like Norwee) or ignores the topic and tries to get the kill without engaging it (like Shea)

Scum does not poke holes in the setup argument against me

So did I misunderstand you then? Jingle now thinks Ram is town? Dann too?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have a question, do strongman go through commute?

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

These were the ones which made Jingle yell at me in all-caps that he was Town.

There's no scum upside to exploring this issue. He's solving the game through the setup. Scum either sticks their fingers in their ears and goes LALALALA KILL THE STRONG PR (like Norwee) or ignores the topic and tries to get the kill without engaging it (like Shea)

Scum does not poke holes in the setup argument against me

So did I misunderstand you then? Jingle now thinks Ram is town? Dann too?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Uh, no.

That would roleblock a Doc shot.

My jail is best used offensively, to roleblock a suspect.

FL is my lead suspect in those worlds (well I guess not scum norwee but the others)

He isn't mine, and you don't get to dictate my role usage.

Further, jailing someone and having a kill still go through provides a mechanical clear on that person.

I will not be jailing FL. I haven't decided who I will be, but he's the only one I'm definitely not going to jail.

Well that obviously makes sense because FL has promised to doc Akarin.

[Nancy Drew 39]

By the way

If Pine is town, scum are not bussing here

Which I think rules out Norwee/Ram and Norwee/FL

Why not Norwee/Pine?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwee/Pine
Norwee/TSQ
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram
TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

I have it narrowed down to these

I’m thinking of cutting out Norwee/Pine here

@akarin
@nancy
Can I get your takes on this when you can

Yeah, I definitely agree that Norwee/Pine are never a team here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really have trouble with the idea that scum decide to use their 1-shot strongman on Ico last night, instead of waiting for massclaim.

Molla was dead and flipped already, Ico

wasn't

one of the two likely PR shots they could have made if we pretend everyone is town for a moment (Ram, FL)

It just seems way too weird.

Especially on N2. It’s not like there’s anyway that scum could have foreseen you as vigging DEB last night.

[Nancy Drew 39]

im sorry, i just feel a lot of scum energy coming from Norwegian guys, and that also helps my Pine town read.

His Norwegian case, or Dannfloor's really, is far superior to mine, im not the case maker, i go off feeling people's auras and actions

Speaking of, when is he planning to post that?

Paraphrased from Dannflor:

Dear Mini Theme,

I hadn't really been following, but when Pine started floundering I dived in. I now have strong opinions.

First, Nancy and Flavor - you are both Town, and the petulant TvT you're doing is trashing this game. Knock it off.

Nancy is Town. First, this is precisely her Town meta. That whole freaking out over being misread thing is classic her, and my research shows she sucks at faking it as scum. Further, she doesn't even

try

as scum, she's way more forgiving. That's not what's happening here. her scumgame is far more self-aware, and her blatant

lack

of self-awareness here is kind of a dead giveaway. (Editor's note: Creature shed the "Transparent" title, maybe it should go to Nancy for a while.) The only time I've ever misread Nancy was in our first game together, and at this point she's easy. I had some paranoia, but I checked and checked twice. She doesn't pull this a scum. The spats with FL reinforce this.

Flavor Leaf is also Town, incidentally. He mentioned earlier that DEB's buddies weren't likely to TR his absence and stone-throwing. DEB never remains unflipped in this game, and FL knows it. @FL you know who was hard TRing him right from the start? Nancy. As a scumbuddy, Nancy busses DEB here. And yeah, there's a WIFOM argument to be made here, but that's bunk. She can maybe do some WIFOMing stuff, but she's not up to that level yet.

Back to FL. Along with the hard Towntell Pine found earlier for him, his consistent approach to the game has been to solve and sort. Yeah, he's a prick. Yeah, he's a bit of an ass. But that fits with his aggressive means of sifting the game. But he's not quite this

reckless

as scum, and when he is it's far more calculating. Town!FL here has few illusions about survival, he's there to get in, solve, and pass it off to the grownups in the room to prosecute. It's what he does. Scum!FL has no motive to do a lot of the things he's done, provoking the people he has. There's just no

benefit

to it. He's not afraid to do so if there's gain, but there isn't here. He's just being a dick. But he's OUR dick.

Dann had a few minor observations about other players (including calling Shea out as a deepwolf long before I was convinced of it), but his thoughts focused most strongly on the Nancy vs FL issue and Norwegian. To continue.

HOW IS NORWEGIAN STILL ALIVE? He's so fucking scummy I'm starting to think he's intentionally trying to invoke the "too scummy to be scum" trope to avoid suspicion. He's been intentionally manipulating the game from the very start, pushing Town players into fighting with one another, then stepping back to stoke the carnage. Absolutely nothing he's done this game has been geared towards solving, it's all been tearing people down and tilting them at one another. "Frankly, it's gross and manipulative."

(Editor's note: That last sentence in quotes is a direct quote, everything else is heavily reworded to comply with the rules. Mods, if you want to whack me for five words, that's your prerogative.)

It's a long and abusive slog, but reread FL vs Norwegian in paired ISO. Think about what Norwegian's posts are doing. He's

goading

FL. I had Pine quote two posts from him earlier in the game, and they

remain

the scumfuckiest thing in the game. Here they are again:

titus says that Norwee and FL should never be voted unless Akarin flips town

i'm inclined to agree

I don't think this is a super bad take though, even if anyone dislikes VCA by principle.
If Akarin is town then it proves both me and FL are most likely in a SvT, and if Akarin is scum then maybe this just is a TvT and scum are in the inactive fucks or cheering our TvT on.

I’m not changing my vote until either me/FL is flipped or FL admits he is wrong on me.
I’m not going to become the elimination in ElO because of FL’s garbage play.
If FL agrees on voting someone else like Akarin then i’ll consider voting there as well. Otherwise, no.

Sweet jebas these are scummy posts

Credit @Dannflor

Everything about Norwegian's ISO is designed to engineer a scenario which is most beneficial to himself personally, while smearing others, particularly threats, with mud. He's trying to paint himself as the logical and Towny one, where he's anything but. He breathes toxicity and and tars up the game with nonsense, dragging the biggest threats into the quicksand of AtE and strawman attacks. Let's look at 3781 for a sec, where he's setting up this exact scenario, transparently trying to push an agenda rather than a solve. He's not considering other possibilities. He's stoking others' paranoia to keep the Town off balance until it drives home a lazy elimination. That's how we got a Zor elim, it's how we got a TGP elim. And all the while, he sits back and keeps poking. But again in 3781...LOOK AT WHAT HE'S DOING - he's demonstrating uncanny certainty and an impossible degree of confidence for a Town player. No Town player on D3 has the game solved this firmly. He has

presumptions

of Town on all of {misty, ND, shea, Akarin, Ramcius} that are so rock solid he's not trying to question them. He's only framing his arguments to this crowd.

TL;DR - Norwegian's game has been one of manipulation and provocation. He goads people into doing his dirty work for him, steeps the game in toxicity, and has crafted a narrative where he's the Town component of not one but two TvS pairs, in order to discard all outward suspicion of others and buddy up to them.

Whew, that was lengthy.

Yeah thanks caught up.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, can you talk to me about your reads? I've been a bit in and out this game, and I'm having trouble tracking where you're at now.

I think I’ve been very clear? I am so mentally and emotionally worn down by all of the drama and toxicity that the only thing I’m convinced on is that me/Akarin/Misty locktown.

And that Misty’s probably right that you and Norwee are never a team. Beyond that I want to hear every possible read, in order to make up my mind.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really have trouble with the idea that scum decide to use their 1-shot strongman on Ico last night, instead of waiting for massclaim.

Molla was dead and flipped already, Ico

wasn't

one of the two likely PR shots they could have made if we pretend everyone is town for a moment (Ram, FL)

It just seems way too weird.

i think it's ~reasonable that they could have predicted that DEB was dying today so they had him use it before that

That’s possible but no one was really terribly interested in wagoning him unless you think any of the players who figured out Akarin was a PR, realized she was a vig and would likely vig DEB. I can say that based on that recent game where scum!FL recruited me in, DEB’s role was designed to use his SS and die early. Now there’s obviously no drafts in this game but I can see scum possibly guessing Akarin vig? but why then kill Ico? So that’s really not making a ton of sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hi nancy

i assume you're still catching up so you'll see the thing i asked you in a bit

Refresh my memory if I haven’t already answered?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Misty are partly to blame for the toxicity in this game right now because they are enabling FL and Pine’s behaviour by not voting.

Are you fucking kidding me with this?

I apologize.
But consider this, FL and Pine is being toxic. And by not voting them out the gamestate is being switched in their favour because they are getting free range to keep being toxic and warp the gamestate in their favour.
You are currently stating that it's hard to keep up because of the constant toxicity, have you ever considered that might be exactly what they want?

Both FL and you and to a lesser extent Pine have been responsible for making the game toxic. I do however resent Dann’s implying that FL’s being horrible to me for 2 straight days was in anyway my fault and if I fucking hear the word “grownup(s)” mentioned one more time in this game, someone will likely be sorry because I’ve fucking had it with the personal attacks on me/Akarin/Misty - no matter whom they’re coming from.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwee/Pine
Norwee/TSQ
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram
TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

I have it narrowed down to these

I’m thinking of cutting out Norwee/Pine here

@akarin
@nancy
Can I get your takes on this when you can

Yeah, I definitely agree that Norwee/Pine are never a team here.

okay

can you give me a why just so i can feel good about locking it in

Sure because they’re both trying to murder each other today and with DEB flipped, I don’t think scum hardbusses if they can help it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You may have been clear, but there's 171 pages and a lot of back and forth. Enlighten me.

????

I just literally just answered you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

im sorry, i just feel a lot of scum energy coming from Norwegian guys, and that also helps my Pine town read.

His Norwegian case, or Dannfloor's really, is far superior to mine, im not the case maker, i go off feeling people's auras and actions

Speaking of, when is he planning to post that?

He already did, and i required it twice

Why are you not reading the game?

I obviously hadn’t caught up yet when I posted that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

FL, Dann also asked you to stop antagonizing Nancy. I'm trying to respect that request, please do the same.

Thank you. I literally can’t think straight when I get extremely upset, which I have been for the past couple of days. I don’t know if FL knows this or not but he damn well should since I literally posted this in the TBoNTB dead thread after A50 completely ruined that game for me but I have CPTSD and once I get triggered, it takes a long time to recover from that. Fortunately it’s not even remotely close to even being in the same ballpark as what A50 did and I’m still on good terms personally with FL. It will just take me awhile. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hot take, it's Nancy and TSQ. I really dislike recent posts of Nancy, where her TR on me vanished

Yeah well that’s 100% on YOU buddy. I don’t tr batshit ridiculous posts sr me. I’m not in a good mood and you have been civil, so I definitely don’t want you to be the wrong person I lose it on.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

And how is this inaccurate? Link/find the quotes debunking that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

And how is this inaccurate? Link/find the quotes debunking that.

Issue is that you don't believe that Pine could agree to my plan, yet you aren't suggesting anything else, so you're being destructive, which is scum indicative

HE HASN’T YET, so you’re essentially shading me for something entirely non-existent.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you scum here @Ram?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

And how is this inaccurate? Link/find the quotes debunking that.

Issue is that you don't believe that Pine could agree to my plan, yet you aren't suggesting anything else, so you're being destructive, which is scum indicative

HE HASN’T YET, so you’re essentially shading me for something entirely non-existent.

I'm trying to work something out, but you try to stand in my way, because Pine didn't gave his agreement. Key word is YET. Why you so hung onto that?

If I was scum, I could eat popcorn and watch Pine with Norwee duke it out and take a free win, but no, I had to get green rc and now I have to deal with all this while trying to salvage mess of a game like this

I’m extremely obviously not scum and I’m not trying to interfere with anything.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t really see Misty needing to be faded here.

scum will kill her, she has no venge on kill, only on elim, also odd number is better than even for us

+1

I agree with you on this and I’ve been 100% saying this since both Akarin/Misty got confitowned. It’s Pine not me who you need to convince of that.

Both Akarin and Misty need to be protected tonight.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hm, me and Creature think that best course of action is protect Akarin with Mistyx and flip TSQ

They’ve changed their read on Norwee?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hm, me and Creature think that best course of action is protect Akarin with Mistyx and flip TSQ

They’ve changed their read on Norwee?

We aren't really sure on Norwee, but TSQ getting no pressure for his no presence is a red flag, why scum let him be?

Alright I guess you must be town then since you’re pushing everyone.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy - Jingle wants me to tell you the Shea scumread is based on PoE and setup analysis. Further, his behavior over time matches the assessment, the way he ducks in and out, managing the game to his benefit

He really didn’t have much to do with the TGP flip though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think "isn't liking" is a stretch to rule buddies out

I agree. While Ram’s conclusion definitely seems plausible, I could also see it as just being too easy and finding out the actual scumteam is rarely that cut and dried. What I probably do agree with Ram is that all scum is likely in those 4. Why couldn’t we possibly have a Pine/Shea team, an FL/Norwee team or an FL/Shea team? I don’t think we can rule either of those out. Out of those 4, the only the only team that I see as implausible is a Pine/Norwee team.

So Pine/FL, Pine/Shea, FL/Shea, Norwee/Shea and FL/Norwee are still possiblities. My team currently leans to FL/Pine. FL mostly for the over the top AtE, emotional manipulation, threats, etic. Scum!FL also threw a rage-induced fit in CoD, when he didn’t get his way and his push on me earlier would fit his pattern of antagonizing me after he pocketed me in that game. So that’s why I can’t rule out a possible FL/Norwee team because if Norwee flips scum, FL wouldn’t be cleared by that because Norwee made it extremely clear, he isn’t interested in any flip today other than Pine’s. So they’re actually more confident on FL than Pine but that’s against the remainder of the playerlist consensus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

“Too early for VCA” in a 173-page game in D3 had me lol-ing.

DGB, please. Whip out the scumputer and do work.

Norwee>Nancy>Mystix>FL>TSQ> Pine

that's what scumputer says, from most likely to least likely to be scum based on VCA

P-edit: who even thinks that you're lock town?

You have me 2nd and why tf is Misty even in that list? Yeah, I think I’m going to completely ignore your solve, since it actually makes the least sense of anyone in this playerlist. If you’re incapable of fucking reading me correctly that’s a Ram NOT a Nancy problem and Misty shouldn’t even be in there.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay sorry then, apparently there’s no one currently qualified on your team at reading me and it makes absolutely no sense for scum!venge Misty to even claim when she was in no danger of being run up. DGP has never even seen my scumgame. I apologize for being salty with you, it actually isn’t game related.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think "isn't liking" is a stretch to rule buddies out

I agree. While Ram’s conclusion definitely seems plausible, I could also see it as just being too easy and finding out the actual scumteam is rarely that cut and dried. What I probably do agree with Ram is that all scum is likely in those 4. Why couldn’t we possibly have a Pine/Shea team, an FL/Norwee team or an FL/Shea team? I don’t think we can rule either of those out. Out of those 4, the only the only team that I see as implausible is a Pine/Norwee team.

So Pine/FL, Pine/Shea, FL/Shea, Norwee/Shea and FL/Norwee are still possiblities. My team currently leans to FL/Pine. FL mostly for the over the top AtE, emotional manipulation, threats, etic. Scum!FL also threw a rage-induced fit in CoD, when he didn’t get his way and his push on me earlier would fit his pattern of antagonizing me after he pocketed me in that game. So that’s why I can’t rule out a possible FL/Norwee team because if Norwee flips scum, FL wouldn’t be cleared by that because Norwee made it extremely clear, he isn’t interested in any flip today other than Pine’s. So they’re actually more confident on FL than Pine but that’s against the remainder of the playerlist consensus.

3 out of 5 teams involve TSQ, so flipping him is best way to solve this. Don't you agree with this?

But only if it’s not in FL/Pine which is still possible. My team isn’t even currently sr Shea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My name is Flavor

I am not scum

I will be misfaded

And be a bum

I am apathy

Yes i am

Please just end this

So i can say bam! I was right.

This is something I’ve never seen you do as scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You have agreed to be leashed on Akarin, so that alone is reason enough for you not to be faded today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think "isn't liking" is a stretch to rule buddies out

I agree. While Ram’s conclusion definitely seems plausible, I could also see it as just being too easy and finding out the actual scumteam is rarely that cut and dried. What I probably do agree with Ram is that all scum is likely in those 4. Why couldn’t we possibly have a Pine/Shea team, an FL/Norwee team or an FL/Shea team? I don’t think we can rule either of those out. Out of those 4, the only the only team that I see as implausible is a Pine/Norwee team.

So Pine/FL, Pine/Shea, FL/Shea, Norwee/Shea and FL/Norwee are still possiblities. My team currently leans to FL/Pine. FL mostly for the over the top AtE, emotional manipulation, threats, etic. Scum!FL also threw a rage-induced fit in CoD, when he didn’t get his way and his push on me earlier would fit his pattern of antagonizing me after he pocketed me in that game. So that’s why I can’t rule out a possible FL/Norwee team because if Norwee flips scum, FL wouldn’t be cleared by that because Norwee made it extremely clear, he isn’t interested in any flip today other than Pine’s. So they’re actually more confident on FL than Pine but that’s against the remainder of the playerlist consensus.

3 out of 5 teams involve TSQ, so flipping him is best way to solve this. Don't you agree with this?

But only if it’s not in FL/Pine which is still possible. My team isn’t even currently sr Shea.

Why your team TR TSQ?

Koba wasn’t, they had a hard sr on them, Math is. Math is disagreeing with Titus’ VCA. Shea is a difficult slot to parse if you rely on meta at all because I have none on him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am not weakest by VCA. Sorry, if I were scum, that’s never the case.

Ask Mathblade about how I abused VCA to hard pocket Titus

Math’s argument was you mindmelding with her on wrong reads like me with TGP for example. I’ll do that. Tell me about DEB and what his voting patterns point to - given that he’s the only flipped scum?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Koba wasn’t, they had a hard sr on them, Math is. Math is disagreeing with Titus’ VCA. Shea is a difficult slot to parse if you rely on meta at all because I have none on him.

All I can see is null, I don't see a reason for a TR from this

Math tr him I think. Koba hard sr him. No one else has said much about him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Koba wasn’t, they had a hard sr on them, Math is. Math is disagreeing with Titus’ VCA. Shea is a difficult slot to parse if you rely on meta at all because I have none on him.

All I can see is null, I don't see a reason for a TR from this

Math tr him I think. Koba hard sr him. No one else has said much about him.

Looked at your team. Pooky played with me in the last 2 months in stuff I'm listening to.

I pinged him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oka wanted to know why we were fading Shea?

I’m assuming it was because I asked my entire team for reads on him. I also did Ram.

What bothers me the most about Pine is he won’t commit to jking Misty.

[Nancy Drew 39]

“Too early for VCA” in a 173-page game in D3 had me lol-ing.

DGB, please. Whip out the scumputer and do work.

Norwee>Nancy>Mystix>FL>TSQ> Pine

that's what scumputer says, from most likely to least likely to be scum based on VCA

P-edit: who even thinks that you're lock town?

I don’t even understand your reasoning here, doesn’t DGB brilliant “scumputer”. have Shea 2nd to last here? It’s also worthless since I know I’m town and Misty is mech town but whatever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

“Too early for VCA” in a 173-page game in D3 had me lol-ing.

DGB, please. Whip out the scumputer and do work.

Norwee>Nancy>Mystix>FL>TSQ> Pine

that's what scumputer says, from most likely to least likely to be scum based on VCA

P-edit: who even thinks that you're lock town?

I don’t even understand your reasoning here, doesn’t DGB brilliant “scumputer”. have Shea 2nd to last here? It’s also worthless since I know I’m town and Misty is mech town but whatever.

All questions address to Pine, he asked for it, not me

Sure. @Pine?

[Nancy Drew 39]

DGB having that read on me is also sounding pretty fake. I refuse to believe he seriously thinks i should go first here.

How does a read based solely off of VCA read “fake” to you rather than just plain wrong? I know for me and extremely likely Misty, it’s useless but I don’t know why you’d consider it to be “fake”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm also finding it interesting that Ramcius is yet again doing this thing where he argues me/X is allied and therefore he could vote there, and doing so.

At first it was "Norwegian - TGP are scum" and voting TGP.
Now it's "Norwegian - TSQ are scum" and voting TSQ.

If if actually turns our to be you/Ram, that would probably be the funniest fucking thing ever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VCA is usually a bunch of shaite anyways. And i've never seen him solve using that metric before. Only Titus.

SHE. DGB like Tweetie are female.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, I like how you bring up TGP, when you did 180 on him and hammered

His last post was scummy A F and even Nancy agrees on that. Also there is no way any other elimination than TGP was happening that day so my "180" as you call it didn't change much in the grand scale of things. In fact, you'd probably still argue i'm scummy if i insisted on TGP being town to the end.

I still wish you had waited for me to weigh in because you specifically said you would. so why didn’t you? That said Math was tr him until that final post.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t think Misty wants a no elim, so she’ll probably vote whomever is at E -1 before deadline.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have to agree with Norwee and Akarin, Ico NK really doesn’t make a lot of sense if Norwee is scum here. However if the team actually is Pine/FL then they played it very suboptimally by not having a no kill but I think Ico was going to push for a Pine wagon today and obviously scum had no idea Akarin would vig DEB.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, Ico's kill doesn't make sense at all no matter how I look at it, so only thing that I can think is scum thought Ico softed some PR and they killed him for it

If you could maybe link/quote any posts where you think that happened, it would be extemely helpful.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The hard proof is Pine’s flip.
In the meantime however.

1. Theme games are very frequently designed with a consistent theme around their design
2. Every other role claimed or flipped in this game has a limited number of shots.
3. Design themes are traditionally consistent across multiple theme games in a series. This is why they are considered a series rather than unlinked games.
4. Every role in the previous game in this series has a limited number of shots.

Can you link that game for me please? I don’t want to have to look it up.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let me point out too, that not only is there no proof that Pine IS a jailkeeper, but there's even soft evidence against it in that one must assume that DEB strongman killed in order to believe the claim

Yeah, I’m having trouble believing that unless there is some actual basis to think Ico tried to fake soft something. Ico probably died over me because scum decided I was far more pocketable is my guess.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, Ico's kill doesn't make sense at all no matter how I look at it, so only thing that I can think is scum thought Ico softed some PR and they killed him for it

If you could maybe link/quote any posts where you think that happened, it would be extemely helpful.

I'm not ISO diving Ico and I'm not going to guess what scum could consider PR soft

As for second of your post, it's last year mini theme that was discussed earlier and whole "Pine is scum based on setup" is based upon

All of the scum in that game had either a one or two shot. I didn’t check the town flips.

[Nancy Drew 39]

All the town too.

Yep, scum had 1 2 shots and town was either vt, one shot and two players were 2 shots.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It's not setup spec saying that an ungated role must be scum, it is that an ungated role must be a lie.
And that a liar in this situation is scum.

Well it definitely debunks Ram’s Pine leashing argument because that would make him at minimum 3 shot. However, Pine said that TGP had a75% chance of being scum by role but that game actually had a one shot town neighbourizer in it, just like this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

thoughts about my other posts?

Yes actually.

Shirou told me that he disagrees with your read on FL and Pine because you shouldn't disregard a hypotethical Pine/FL scum team so easily.
In the last TM scum!FL + scum!Kuribo gave easy town reads to each other and defended themselves together.
FL/Pine aren't typical scum afraid to give town reads to partners.

Can you also link this game for me? Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

thoughts about my other posts?

Yes actually.

Shirou told me that he disagrees with your read on FL and Pine because you shouldn't disregard a hypotethical Pine/FL scum team so easily.
In the last TM scum!FL + scum!Kuribo gave easy town reads to each other and defended themselves together.
FL/Pine aren't typical scum afraid to give town reads to partners.

Can you also link this game for me? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81773

:/ I’m town. I’ll just let it happen. I lost all energy with this game

Well giving up is apparently NAI for him. He actually seemed pretty townie in that game. But Shirou was in that game and jjh was in last year’s mini theme.

[Nancy Drew 39]

???

There’s only 2 scum left in the game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is where we should be making the correct elim rather than trying to make an optimal mechanical play when scum are able to fakeclaim to manipulate that optimal mechanical play

I think DEB’s role probably doesn’t make a lot of sense with a Pine/FL scumteam. Because it seems hard to believe there’s a one shot strongwilled for only 1 one shot doc.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Night 2 Eliminations

You wake up to find two members of your group missing.

Spoiler: Iconeum

Welcome, Iconeum! You are Monkey D. Luffy, a member of the

Anime Empire

.

Your Abilities

• Voice of the Empire
  : During the day phase, you may use your voice as a member of the Anime Empire to vote to eliminate one player.

Your Win Condition

• Destroy Untrod Tripod
  : You win when all threats to the Anime Empire have been eliminated and there is at least one Anime Empire member alive.

Please confirm by responding to this PM stating your alignment and character name.

The game thread can be found here.

Good luck, have fun, and destroy Untrod Tripod.

Spoiler: Dr Easy Bake

Welcome, Dr Easy Bake! You are Inuyasha, an

Untrod Tripod Underground

member. Your partners are [redacted] and [redacted].

Your Abilities

• Voice of Untrod Tripod
  : During the day phase, you may use this ability to vote to eliminate another player.
  
• Face of Untrod Tripod
  : You, and your partners, share a factional kill each night. You also share a private thread where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located [redacted]
  
• Immense Demonic Power
  : During the night, when you are performing the kill, you may activate this ability. That night,
  the kill will ignore all protections and roleblocking abilities
  . You may do this once during the game.

Your Win Condition

• Save Untrod Tripod
  : You win when all Anime Empire members are dead, and at least one Untrod Tripod Underground member remains alive.

Please confirm by responding to this PM stating your alignment and character name.

The game thread can be found here.

Good luck, have fun, and save Untrod Tripod.

I didn’t read this very closely. This implies Pine’s and FL’s roles might actually be real.

Immense Demonic Power: During the night, when you are performing the kill, you may activate this ability.

That night, the kill will ignore all protections and roleblocking abilities

. You may do this once during the game.

Unless one of the vt claims is a one shot roleblocker.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

There is probably not a "mechanically correct" play here; we do not know what roles the scumteam has. JJ would give very good odds on the scumteam for this game having a roleblocker of some kind even if we weren’t certain that Pine was that

well by logic wouldn't the roleblocker probably also be gated?

last year's was 2-shot so i'd guess the same here

Yes but so far there’s no actual evidence of a 2 shot anything in this game. I should probably recheck last year’s game to see how many vts there were because it doesn’t match, one might be false.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So far we have Ico me as vt and Ram, Shea, Notwee also all claiming that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So last year’s game, had an ungated scum roleblocker, a one shot strongman exactly like DEB and a scum joat.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So last year’s game, had an ungated scum roleblocker, a one shot strongman exactly like DEB and a scum joat.

a one shot vig, a 2 shot town jk and ab ungated sorta doc who could confirm bp on a player and of course 1 shot town neighbourizer,

So ungated could be real.

[Nancy Drew 39]

setupspec is below other forms of scum hunting for a reason, that's just all mech stuff. Mech is the lazy way to play Mafia unless you're all in on mech. If you are excellent at mech, and use that supplementally, then yes, but I'd even say I'm the strongest at mech in this game

They using 17p rolelist to compare it to 13p, I just can't argue them, it's simply beyond any logic at this point, like strongman is just for giving scum confidence and not to directly counter something on town's side. Could you explain them why there can't be same amount identical/similar PRs in 13p game as it is in 17p, cause I don't know how I should explain this to them for this to sink in their thick skulls

Well that’s pretty much what I’m saying. Even if you assume both Pine’s and FL’s roles are real, then it’s still less TPR counterbalancing DEB. Because Misty’s role is somewhere between neutral and negative utility, depending on context, so the mech reasons to think Pine logically has to be scum here don’t hold up. Chances are if Pine were to flip ungated town jk, you can probably bank that one of the vts is ungated scum PR.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

Jjh is pretty much the expert role claims. That’s how we won Pokemon Battles.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What does Jingle think specifically about Pine being the only ungated role in the setup?
And whether there are any implications of this.
And why Jingle hasn't acknowledged this as a weakness of the claim himself

JJH doesn't really see Jingle coming up with that bad point about the strongman referencing roleblocking when that's what the normal strongman role PM looks like.
It's phrased exactly the same way in the previous untrod tripod vs anime game. That's literally just how strongman role PMs look; it doesn't imply anything about the setup.
and Pine should know that and Jingle definitely knows that.

A strongman is in the setup for a. reason. You also don’t know if there’s another ungated role in this setup. There was an ungated doc last time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine is the only ungated role in the setup, this is specifically around how that doesn't seem to fit.
Does this imply that this assumption is false and that scum might have ungated roles, perhaps? Something like that. Because Pine, and from what we can see through Pine, Jingle, is avoiding what we consider to be an absolutely damning point about ungated roles not fitting in the setup. And he was in the previous untrod tripod v anime game, and was the living player who noticed the aesthetic of the setup. It seems really strange that Jingle wouldn't get Pine to acknowledge that being the only ungated role in the setup might make people doubt the claim.
It's a pretty common thing when making a claim that you know is unusual for any reason to preface that. To say, as FL did when claiming a role that had already flipped, "I acknowledge that this might be hard to believe for X reasons BUT this is the role PM that I got". Are we to believe that Jingle not only missed an absolute standout feature of the setup like this but also is refusing to recognise it after we've been repeating it?

But there was an ungated doc in the previous setup, so I don’t know how you’re so certain on this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

DEB’s flip mechanically demands a strong protective role.

That’s me.

Does a godfather flip demand a cop? Or Ninja a tracker?

Usually yes, if you have a mod who is reasonably adept at setup balance. Would you design a game with a miller and have no loyal/disloyal roles or AC in it? Of course you could but that wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Consider these points.

>Previous game with this theme flavour was all X-Shot.
>All previous roles flipped in this game so far are hard confirmed to be only X-Shot.
>BBMolla and Flavour crumb PR. BBMolla dies and Pine conveniently targeted FL on the same night with what FL can only hard confirm as a blocking action, but Pine also says it's protective.
>Pine claims to have targeted Iconeum N2 but Iconeum dies anyway. Explains it as DEB using his 1-shot strongman on that night. Circumstances are incredible.

No, have you not been reading my posts? Last game had an ungated doc in it. Why do you keep ignoring this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

There was an ungated doc last time.

No there wasn't.

Yes, there was an ungated town role that could make a player bp for the night. I can literally quote it for you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Welcome, Klick! You are 星空 みゆき (Miyuki Hoshizora), a

MafiaScum Anime Avatar Resistance Fighters (MAARF)

member.

Your Abilities

• MAARF Tactical Response Unit
  : During the day phase, you may use this unit to vote to lynch one player.
  
• R

  a

  i

  n

  b

  o

  w

  H

  e

  a

  l

  i

  n

  g

  !
  : During the night, you may activate your ability and target one player. If successful, this player will be protected from one night kill.
  You may do this twice during the game.

Your Win Condition

• Make MafiaScum Safe Again
  : You win when all threats to MAARF have been eliminated and there is at least one MAARF member alive.

That wasn’t it. The specific role pm, had the words “bullet proof” or “bp” in it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We have 3 doctor type roles in this game. and 1-shot strongman. Give this a thought Nancy, it clearly does not fit and if a claim is fake then Pine's is the odd man out here.

3? Molla, FL. Where’s the 3rd?

[Nancy Drew 39]

There was an ungated doc last time.

No there wasn't.

Yes, there was an ungated town role that could make a player bp for the night. I can literally quote it for you.

Are you referring to this?

Welcome, hitogoroshi! You are 不破 真広 (Mahiro Fuwa), a MafiaScum Anime Avatar Resistance Fighters (MAARF) member.

Your Abilities
MAARF Tactical Response Unit: During the day phase, you may use this unit to vote to lynch one player.
Talismans: During the night, you must target one player and choose one of the following talismans to grant your target:
Bulletproof: If successful, your targeted player will become immune to one night kill the following night phase. This talisman wears off once successfully targeted with a killing action or the following night phase ends, and will not work in MyLo or LyLo.
Loved: If successful, your targeted player will require one extra vote to be lynched. This talisman will last until the end of the following day phase, and will not work in MyLo or LyLo.
Hated: If successful, your targeted player will require one less vote to be lynched. This talisman will last until the end of the following day phase, and will not work in MyLo or LyLo.

It's somewhat reasonable for you to assume that was ungated because you weren't in the game, but in practice it was clarified that each talisman could only be handed out once. JJH told me this and he was in the game.

Once to a different player or only once in that game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have trouble believing you're even arguing in good faith here.

The fuck? Of course I am.

Read the role PM

. BBMolla’s has explicit gating, the only gating on Hito’s is that it wouldn’t work in XYLO.

This talisman will last until the end of the following day phase, and will not work in MyLo or LyLo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

But Akarin is agreeing with him and she’s confitown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Conftown does not mean reads are right, but i know you know that, so what did you mean by that comment?

I mean she’s obviously not scum, so her reads can’t be misinterpreted as such.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m leaving for the night.
Misty if you need hand holding through qhat core pounts make Pine scum just ask me for it.

Please don’t speak to Misty like that, it’s really not helpful.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, are you available this evening? I’d like a back and forth with you.

Sure, lay it on me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, are you available this evening? I’d like a back and forth with you.

Sure, lay it on me.

I need to go make dinner then change phases in my LSG, I'll probably be available full time in 2-3 hours. You here then?

Maybe just post whatever you want me to read and I’ll respond back as best I can.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like I said, I can't really get down and dirty right now, I'm on my phone while chopping vegetables for salad.

I'm looking for a productive back-and-forth.

I can’t guarantee when I’ll be online. It’s the same reason I don’t play in marathons. I signed up for one and slept through it. When I woke up it was over.

But just make all your points as I said and I’ll do my best to respond to them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, are you available this evening? I’d like a back and forth with you.

Sure, lay it on me.

I need to go make dinner then change phases in my LSG, I'll probably be available full time in 2-3 hours. You here then?

Apparently that didn’t happen anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Votecount 3.10

Pine(3)

~ NorwegianboyEE(282), thestatusquo(79), Akarin(84)

thestatusquo(2)

~ Pine(96), Ramcius(111)

Ramcius(1)

~ Mistyx(95)

NorwegianboyEE(1)

~ Flavor Leaf(362)


Not Voting (1): Nancy Drew 39(274)


With 8 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-24 12:25:00)

Mod Notes

• See the post above.

So he’s at E -1 rn? @Misty, @Akarin, should I hammer?

Where did Ram go?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay thanks, I’ll ask my team but I just see this game never ending if I don’t. I thought last game had ungated but if that’s wrong, then it’s probably not true. I agree with you that based off of molla flip and FL claim, I don’t see any reason why DEB used strongman on Ico.

I’ll re-ISO him to see if a strongman makes sense or not. Iirc, there was an ungated scum roleblocker in the last setup but those role pms are a helluva lot more confusing then the ones in this game. FL’s arguments wrt your opinions really don’t make sense but that in itself is NAI.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay, I couldn’t find anything in Ico’s ISO to suggest any kind of PR soft. He was strongly tr Norwee but especially Shea and was hard gunning for Pine. If Pine is scum jk or rb, jking/rbing would make sense if he was concerned about being targeted by him, so I think the motivation to jk/rb Ico > me is questionable because it makes far more sense for Pine to want to block Ico than protect him. It’s actually possible that Ico was rb’d to stop him for targeting Pine and DEB is strongman but not strongwilled, so an Ico rb from scum!Pine could actually make sense from scum!Pine in addition with strongman DEB killing him. Then there’s the weird Jingle take on the molla kill.

Fact is that neither Norwee and especially Shea had much reason to kill Ico because he was 100% going to push Pine where I was probably viewed as more pocketable so FL saying that he was coming after Norwee didn’t seem likely with a TGP green flip and Shea wasn’t even on his radar.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i feel like i can't be any more clear with why, if you can't see it, dont know what else to do at this point.

Honestly, Nancy, this happened all throughout FL vs Hectic where you couldnt comprehend like any of my scum cases and defended all of my pushes, but i just was right that game too.

None of that shit is remotely persuasive here, so I honestly don’t know why you keep pushing this. You are also not confitown here, so you either give me a logical hard case that contradicts the converse or don’t waste your time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

FL & Pine: You guys are thinking incorrectly. Full stop. This has been the main crux of their arguments which is just infuriating because it tells me absolutely nothing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Intent to hammer.

My team thinks it’s Pine/FL.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Intent to hammer.

My team thinks it’s Pine/FL.

I think it can be Ramcius. But if it’s not then it can only really be FL.

And it’s my entire team. They are actually more confident on scum!FL than scum!Pine. But yeah, that is their solve: FL/Pine.

Ico was only going to push you today if TGP flipped scum. He was 100% gunning for Pine. Shea wasn’t even on his radar. So I don’t understand why Ico kill points to anyone else.

Assuming Ram is town, that would have looked bad for you but Ico makes the least sense if you’re scum here and I think the switch to Shea is likely because they think he’s an easier elim than you for some reason.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your team is wrong, Nancy, and FADE FUCKING NORWEGIAN TOMORROW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

Ico was only coming after Norwee if TGP flipped scum. Yes he hammered him but Math thought his last post was scummy. He was trying hard to stop TGP wagon.

And if Pine flips scum, do you think there’s a world where we have a Pine/Norwee team?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oka made the same argument Ram and I did about leashing him on Misty but he has adamantly refused to do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I can wait until tomorrow but I’m 100% taking my cues from Akarin/Misty, who are both voting Pine.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I can wait until tomorrow but I’m 100% taking my cues from Akarin/Misty, who are both voting Pine.

and my team who are all convinced on an FL/Pine team and in that order of confidence. I am less sure but I think the Ico strongman thing is kind’ve hard to believe with molla flip/FL claim.

So that is the part that pings me most, rather than the ungated thing. I also think scum probably want to kill Misty > me because they think I’m the easiest pocket.

I also really really hate all of the AtE emo arguments trying to discredit me and especially Akarin. Telling me I’m wrong and that I shouldn’t sheep confitown doesn’t convince me of jack.

I don’t believe DEB used the strongman on Ico when it made way more sense to use it on molla. Ico never softed PR anywhere.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll be honest, I'm really paranoid of TSQ/FL team here, FL doing 180 on me and not voting TSQ, while talking me/TSQ and Norwee TSQ teams

My team is re-acessing. A Pine/FL team makes absolutely no sense with DEB’s role.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll be honest, I'm really paranoid of TSQ/FL team here, FL doing 180 on me and not voting TSQ, while talking me/TSQ and Norwee TSQ teams

My team is re-acessing. A Pine/FL team makes absolutely no sense with DEB’s role.

Which would likely mean one scum amongst the vt claims.

I’m starting to buy into Pine’s earnestness now that he’s explained his plan. If Shea flips scum and he jk’s Norwee and no kill happens, it could possibly break the game wide open.

I don’t think I want Pine limmed today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll be honest, I'm really paranoid of TSQ/FL team here, FL doing 180 on me and not voting TSQ, while talking me/TSQ and Norwee TSQ teams

My team is re-acessing. A Pine/FL team makes absolutely no sense with DEB’s role.

Which would likely mean AT LEAST one scum amongst the vt claims.

I’m starting to buy into Pine’s earnestness now that he’s explained his plan. If Shea flips scum and he jk’s Norwee and no kill happens, it could possibly break the game wide open.

I don’t think I want Pine limmed today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

that's possible, strongman could be designed to be low value or a red herring, you could be a scum JK and it exists to give credit to your claim, etc

FL/Pine scumteam doesn’t make sense mech wise, so possibly safest elim is in one of the scummier vt slots.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll be honest, I'm really paranoid of TSQ/FL team here, FL doing 180 on me and not voting TSQ, while talking me/TSQ and Norwee TSQ teams

My team is re-acessing. A Pine/FL team makes absolutely no sense with DEB’s role.

Finally someone is reasonable, I had lost hope after saying this repeatedly for days

All of the over the top AtE and toxicity made it virtually impossible for me to think clearly and it made me want to completely ignore whatever FL was saying, then Pine didn’t help with the earlier “butthurt” comments because I would definitely hate to ever lose again to scum who played like Bunno in Dung Beetle 2.

So, now that FL is no longer being mean to me and my synapses have recovered, I’m seeing things a lot more clearly.

I have much > better than average reads FL fyi, when I’m actually able to focus and think clearly. Upsetting me is really never a good idea unless it’s pro your wincon for me to play like a vegetable.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t think Ram is scum here. And I think a vt elim is more protown than eliming Pine. I think you’re realizing that a Pine/FL scumteam makes no sense mech wise with DEB flip, so you’re now pushing Ram.

[Nancy Drew 39]

FL/Pine scumteam doesn’t make sense mech wise, so possibly safest elim is in one of the scummier vt slots.

Who are these scummier VT slots according to you? I also don't see how FL/Pine team not making sense means that Pine's claim is somehow made legitimate, because it is not.

If one of you/Shea flips scum and Pine roleblocks the other - considering the fact that both of you claimed vt, how does this hurt us, especially since FL has committed to being leashed on doccing Akarin?

Basically, if anyone dies, then he’s probably scum and Ram being opposed to this is likely protown because with you jk’d and FL on Akarin, you’d be lockcleared if an NK happens, so why are you so opposed to this plan?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have been strongly fighting against any elimination that is not in me/Pine today, so to say i'm going to push Ramcius is a misunderstanding of my mindset. I simply want Pine eliminated for his fake claim, so if that is impossible because i have not enough town credit then i simply ask that you eliminate me, and once i'm proved town get rid of Pine.
Ramcius is simply the slot that should be eliminated after Pine flips scum, not at any other point. My vote has and will always be Pine for reasons i've described.

If you’re town and Pine claims he will jk you, then you’re mech cleared in the case of an NK, so why would you be opposed to that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

FL/Pine scumteam doesn’t make sense mech wise, so possibly safest elim is in one of the scummier vt slots.

Who are these scummier VT slots according to you? I also don't see how FL/Pine team not making sense means that Pine's claim is somehow made legitimate, because it is not.

If one of you/Shea flips scum and Pine roleblocks the other - considering the fact that both of you claimed vt, how does this hurt us, especially since FL has committed to being leashed on doccing Akarin?

Basically, if anyone dies, then he’s probably scum and Ram being opposed to this is likely protown because with you jk’d and FL on Akarin, you’d be lockcleared if an NK happens, so why are you so opposed to this plan?

Why scum is opposed to a plan that would lose game for them?

Thing with Pine is that even if TSQ flips green, Pine has no one to push - if he tries to pin me or FL with Norwee, he's getting elim'ed. He's TRing me and FL too hard to do 180 and be fine

Well yes, town!Norwee should jump at the chance of being lockcleared since he claimed vt, because Pine’s plan mean likely no one dies tonight which is protown, so I misunderstood. With FL doccing Akarin, if Pine jk’d Misty then I would still die but his plan likely ensures a no kill which is the best possible outcome for town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have been strongly fighting against any elimination that is not in me/Pine today, so to say i'm going to push Ramcius is a misunderstanding of my mindset. I simply want Pine eliminated for his fake claim, so if that is impossible because i have not enough town credit then i simply ask that you eliminate me, and once i'm proved town get rid of Pine.
Ramcius is simply the slot that should be eliminated after Pine flips scum, not at any other point. My vote has and will always be Pine for reasons i've described.

If you’re town and Pine claims he will jk you, then you’re mech cleared in the case of an NK, so why would you be opposed to that?

Let's say we flip town!TSQ.
Misty dies in the night, Pine says he jailkept me, FL says he doctored akarin
Where are we now.
Pine probably just argues that the second scum that was not Norwe made the kill and it doesn't prove anything.

But who would kill Misty with Pine’s plan? If Shea/you flipped town and Misty dies, that’s terrible for Pine isn’t it? But if no one dies, then it either points to you or scum no kill. The point is that his plan is extremely protown because one of you get cleared if kill happens, so how is it in scum!Pine’s interest to jk/potentially clear you/Shea?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also the plan completely ignores the chance that scum!Pine could easily come up with some strategy to bypass any "confirmations" it might give to town that you assume will happen.

How with DEB flip?

Given that a Pine/FL team makes no sense mechwise, it means that even if Pine’s scum, his buddy is likely in one of the vt claims and I just don’t think it’s Ram.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But who would kill Misty with Pine’s plan? If Shea/you flipped town and Misty dies, that’s terrible for Pine isn’t it? But if no one dies, then it either points to you or scum no kill. The point is that his plan is extremely protown because one of you get cleared if kill happens, so how is it in scum!Pine’s interest to jk/potentially clear you/Shea?

because he simply won't JK any of me/Shea. Or he will claim he did but we are still possible scum because 2 scum are alive and he can argue our "partner" might have commited the kill and then continue arguing for any of our elimination.
This is all just a plan Pine is insisting on to stay alive and it's not in town's interest.

That makes absolutely no sense. Pine is toast if that happens and he knows it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also the plan completely ignores the chance that scum!Pine could easily come up with some strategy to bypass any "confirmations" it might give to town that you assume will happen.

How with DEB flip?

Given that a Pine/FL team makes no sense mechwise, it means that even if Pine’s scum, his buddy is likely in one of the vt claims and I just don’t think it’s Ram.

Explain to me why it's not Ram.

Because with either you/Shea jk’d, agreeing to Pine’s plan puts him at risk if he’s scum here, wouldn’t it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If either you/Shea is jk’d and kill happens that looks terrible for all 3 of Pine, FL, Ram, so being onboard with either a you/Shea jk puts them at risk if an NK happens. And if no NK happens, then that’s obviously good for town. so I think if you agree that mechwise an FL/Pine scumteam doesn’t fit with DEB strongman, then isn’t it safer to lim in the vts?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If they still believe in a Pine solve then you should follow the majority as game will be stuck otherwise.

Stop telling me what to do. That’s what all 3 of you/FL/Pine have been doing all game. I’m finally seeing things clearly and will make what I think is the best decision for town. Vts have absolutely nothing to lose from being jk’d and rn, Pine and FL are currently the only claimed roles with NAs.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

Can you explain why that is the best strategy? I’m not opposed if that helps town. I think Oka was referencing the odd/even thing as well but I’m not sure I understand?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If they still believe in a Pine solve then you should follow the majority as game will be stuck otherwise.

Stop telling me what to do. That’s what all 3 of you/FL/Pine have been doing all game. I’m finally seeing things clearly and will make what I think is the best decision for town. Vts have absolutely nothing to lose from being jk’d and rn, Pine and FL are currently the only claimed roles with NAs.

I said please.

I meant earlier. I just tired of people trying to manipulate me. I can think for myself and am capable of good decisions so I just don’t want anyone trying to strongarm me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

I would think then you’re probably right, especially if you’re jk’d and a kill still happens.

But my point is a vt elim is safer if you agree that a DEB strongman ruies out a Pine/FL team.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

The way I see it is that if a kill happens and he accuses whichever one of you/Shea he claims to jk of it, he’d then be scumclaiming so I see his plan as protown because even if Pine is scum, his buddy cannot possibly be FL for mech reasons.

And yes, I think FL/Ram being in favour of one of you/Shea being jk’d reads protown to me because how does it help scum either of them, to have either vt you/Shea jk’d?

I also think Pine sounds extremely sincere with his recent posts and I think he’s telling the truth. He also was the most against a Zor flip.

I’m gut tr him now and I oppose his elim today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

Who is Pine’s buddy because if it’s FL, then DEB strongman means we have a broken setup?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

Who is Pine’s buddy because if it’s FL, then DEB strongman means we have a broken setup?

What? You're going to have to run that one by me again.

Pines buddy is plausibly FL or ramcius.

How does a Pine/FL team make sense mech wise with a DEB strongman?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

A strongman implies either a town doc or roleblocker of some sort and so far all we have in that regard is a 1 shot doc flip, which makes no sense especially when you check out last year’s setup. If you’re arguing a Pine/FL team then you’re pretty much arguing that scum would have a 1 shot strongman counterbalanced by only a 1 shot doc and as a game designer yourself, I don’t understand how you wouldn’t see that as unbalanced?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

I've modded games with gunsmith with no guns in them. Shrug.

Why would you have gunsmith as role without guns? It’s similar to having a miller/godfather without an AC, loyal/disloyal or desperado in the setup or a ninja with no tracker.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Math and I hard tr Ram btw. Math thinks it’s you/FL ftr.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What’s your Towncase on Shea?

Math is saying this because he doesn’t believe both scum are in the vts. I think Ram is very obviously town. I honestly don’t know what to think anymore but the more you post, the more I’m opposed to your elim because I think from a mech pov, you/Fl team doesn’t make sense with a DEB strongman. So even if you were scum, your partner would likely be in one of the vt claims, which I don’t actually think is the case.

I think though that it would hypothetically be bad for either scum!FL or scum!Ram if you jk’d either town!Norwee or town!Shea because that would probably look bad for him, so unless the team is literally you/FL which would mean DEB strongman makes 0 sense then, I don’t understand why scum!FL would be in favour of this but I could possibly see an FL/Norwee team definitely more than a you/FL team because I don’t think a strongman makes sense with only a 1 shot joat. And it bothers me that you can clear one of Norwee/Shea and he won’t even consider it. Math sr Norwee > Shea and I can understand his paranoia about an FL/Norwee team but regardless of who I think is scum here, I think DEB strongman points against it being exactly you/FL and I don’t believe Ram is scum here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Mmmmm I don’t hate that reasoning, Nancy, but here’s the problem -

Flavor Leaf is Town. I’ve caught far too many Towntells off of him to believe anything else.

Who could be Norwee’s partner if not FL?

I just think Ram has been really townie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t know what’s up with FL here but I definitely think Ram is town and Pine’s plan is protown. I’m not sure if I should vote for Norwee or Shea yet but I have some paranoia that Norwee might actually know his alignment, since he seems to be beyond convinced that She’s flipping town.

FL suddenly wavering on his hard town Pine read, why?

I’m really paranoid that it might actually be FL/Norwee and prior to that I was going to post that it was likely a Norwee/Shea team but now I’m wondering if Math was actually right?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t know what’s up with FL here but I definitely think Ram is town and Pine’s plan is protown. I’m not sure if I should vote for Norwee or Shea yet but I have some paranoia that Norwee might actually know his alignment, since he seems to be beyond convinced that She’s flipping town.

FL suddenly wavering on his hard town Pine read, why?

I’m really paranoid that it might actually be FL/Norwee and prior to that I was going to post that it was likely a Norwee/Shea team but now I’m wondering if Math was actually right?

Do you think both scum are in the vanilla claims, or if it's 1 in vanilla and 1 in PR, or if it's both in PR claims?

I think that DEB strongman doesn’t make sense with just molla’s role, so at least on in vts and I really don’t understand the Ram sr. I think he’s really obvious town. I mean it’s possible that this setup doesn’t make a whole lot of sense mech wise but I don’t think Penguin creates just a ridiculous setup.

See Pine jking either you or Shea would clear whomever but I don’t believe scum!Ram says green flip on you/Shea clears the other. Scum doesn’t want clears. That’s a transparently townie thought.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine has 0 plan for someone flipping town today. It is identical to flipping 2 people.
That is not a mechanical plan and it's wrong to phrase it as one.
We will support any plan that allows for a town victory in the case of a Pine/Ram scumteam. Does the plan account for that?

If Pine claims to jk you/Shea and a kill happens, then he has no choice but to clear whichever one of you he claims to jk because if a kill still happens during the jk, then he’s a liar basically. And if no kill happens then all 3 confitown slots survive the NK, so how isn’t that protown?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do you think this 7 town PRs vs 3 scum, 1 of whom is a 1-shot strongman?
The previous game was 6 town PRs vs 3 scum PRs.

There are 6 - in both flips/claims: Zor/molla/Akarin/Misty/Pine/FL vs 1 scum PR/DEB that we know of.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t know what’s up with FL here but I definitely think Ram is town and Pine’s plan is protown. I’m not sure if I should vote for Norwee or Shea yet but I have some paranoia that Norwee might actually know his alignment, since he seems to be beyond convinced that She’s flipping town.

FL suddenly wavering on his hard town Pine read, why?

I’m really paranoid that it might actually be FL/Norwee and prior to that I was going to post that it was likely a Norwee/Shea team but now I’m wondering if Math was actually right?

Do you think both scum are in the vanilla claims, or if it's 1 in vanilla and 1 in PR, or if it's both in PR claims?

I think that DEB strongman doesn’t make sense with just molla’s role, so at least on in vts and I really don’t understand the Ram sr. I think he’s really obvious town. I mean it’s possible that this setup doesn’t make a whole lot of sense mech wise but I don’t think Penguin creates just a ridiculous setup.

See Pine jking either you or Shea would clear whomever but I don’t believe scum!Ram says green flip on you/Shea clears the other. Scum doesn’t want clears. That’s a transparently townie thought.

Ok but I made a very similar post day 2 that you said was town so if you think its either me or ram that point is a wash.

You need to link or quote that post because I can’t remember.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do you think this 7 town PRs vs 3 scum, 1 of whom is a 1-shot strongman?
The previous game was 6 town PRs vs 3 scum PRs.

There are 6 - in both flips/claims: Zor/molla/Akarin/Misty/Pine/FL vs 1 scum PR/DEB that we know of.

You forgot TGP 1-shot neighborizer. There are 7.

Oh right, well it might mean then that one of FL/Pine could be lying.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If all the PR claims are true and town-aligned, then town has:
A tracker/watcher/voyeur joat
2 Doctor/Follower/Commuter joats
A 1 shot neighbouriser
A 1 shot novice vig
A venge
A full, ungated jailkeeper
It's likely that one of the claims is false.
And that's independent of the ungated jailkeeper being something that doesn't mesh with the setup.

Based on this, Pine’s claim is more believable than FL’s being identical to molla’s.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do you think this 7 town PRs vs 3 scum, 1 of whom is a 1-shot strongman?
The previous game was 6 town PRs vs 3 scum PRs.

There are 6 - in both flips/claims: Zor/molla/Akarin/Misty/Pine/FL vs 1 scum PR/DEB that we know of.

You forgot TGP 1-shot neighborizer. There are 7.

Oh right, well it might mean then that one of FL/Pine could be lying.

Yeah that's what we've been saying, and we believe it is likely Pine's claim that is the fake one.

The obvious wrinkle is that the venge is neutral/negative so maybe that balances it out?

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're still pretty much assuming the plan will go in this order.

TSQ flips scum ->
Pine JK's a slot and catches final scum or clears them as town.

But what i am saying is that the entire premise is flawed from the get go, because if TSQ flips town then he can't clear anyone. So unless you are absolutely sure TSQ flips scum this plan is completely folly and it also makes complete sense for scum!Pine to argue for this plan sunce he would know TSQ is flipping town.

But Ram is saying that either of you flipping town clears the other one right? So why does scum!Ram say this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If all the PR claims are true and town-aligned, then town has:
A tracker/watcher/voyeur joat
2 Doctor/Follower/Commuter joats
A 1 shot neighbouriser
A 1 shot novice vig
A venge
A full, ungated jailkeeper
It's likely that one of the claims is false.
And that's independent of the ungated jailkeeper being something that doesn't mesh with the setup.

Based on this, Pine’s claim is more believable than FL’s being identical to molla’s.

JJ wants me to tell you that 2 identical roles is well within the expected mod wifom from this game. And they've concluded FL is more likely the town claim than Pine.

Can he elaborate on why that is?

[Nancy Drew 39]

He expects that PenguinPower would design the setup with something that would punish us for assuming the setup was the exact same as last time. However, it would not be so far away from the previous setup as to include an entirely ungated role.

I think your reasoning for implying that FL’s role makes more sense than Pine’s in unfounded but I think it’s still possible both could be town because of Misty venge because that’s a neutral/negative for town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're still pretty much assuming the plan will go in this order.

TSQ flips scum ->
Pine JK's a slot and catches final scum or clears them as town.

But what i am saying is that the entire premise is flawed from the get go, because if TSQ flips town then he can't clear anyone. So unless you are absolutely sure TSQ flips scum this plan is completely folly and it also makes complete sense for scum!Pine to argue for this plan sunce he would know TSQ is flipping town.

But Ram is saying that either of you flipping town clears the other one right? So why does scum!Ram say this?

Because he only needs to elim 1 more player if he mislims today. And the easiest path for scum!Ram is to elim FL, either before or after scum!Pine.

But wouldn’t Pine’s plan stop the NK? Or you’re arguing that he’s trying to set up FL or something?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, you guys have bad reading comprehension if you think i have any sort of change in my reads essentially all day phase

So is your current solve still Norwee/Shea then?

[Nancy Drew 39]

JJH is spitballing to me right now the best way to go forward if we do a TSQ elimination today.

TSQ mislim, no leashing for protective claims at night with assumption for continued play being worst case scenario of consensus town being killed.
Elim scum!Ram, pine leashed to jailing FL leading to a no kill because scum is surely within pine/fl
Elim Pine and FL in any order
This plan accounts for scum!Ram with either scum!Pine or scum!FL
however, it does rely on scum!Ram and would lose to a Pine/FL scumteam

How can we leash FL onto Akarin if he’s jk’d? Why do you want to elim Shea if you’re convinced he’s town? And based off of your posting, you seem to be suggesting that Misty is the most likely NK not Akarin, correct?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t know what’s up with FL here but I definitely think Ram is town and Pine’s plan is protown. I’m not sure if I should vote for Norwee or Shea yet but I have some paranoia that Norwee might actually know his alignment, since he seems to be beyond convinced that She’s flipping town.

FL suddenly wavering on his hard town Pine read, why?

I’m really paranoid that it might actually be FL/Norwee and prior to that I was going to post that it was likely a Norwee/Shea team but now I’m wondering if Math was actually right?

Do you think both scum are in the vanilla claims, or if it's 1 in vanilla and 1 in PR, or if it's both in PR claims?

I think that DEB strongman doesn’t make sense with just molla’s role, so at least on in vts and I really don’t understand the Ram sr. I think he’s really obvious town. I mean it’s possible that this setup doesn’t make a whole lot of sense mech wise but I don’t think Penguin creates just a ridiculous setup.

See Pine jking either you or Shea would clear whomever but I don’t believe scum!Ram says green flip on you/Shea clears the other. Scum doesn’t want clears. That’s a transparently townie thought.

Ok but I made a very similar post day 2 that you said was town so if you think its either me or ram that point is a wash.

You need to link or quote that post because I can’t remember.

Its not quite the same now that I've found the post but this is what I was thinking of, but the logic is roughly the same.

I don’t fully townread Zor, but with that claim they’ve put an target on their back so i’m willing to back off since they will hopefully get resolved at some point anyways.

UNVOTE:

How much time do we have left?

Quoting issue.

We have like nine days. Pump the brakes, crazytrain.

What quoting issue? And there’s only 2 votes on TGP, he’s not getting run up.

Do you have any familiarity with TGP scum meta because I have none.

I think you’re very likely town now which makes me think Shea might be too now. The reason is that he said, if either one of us flips red look at the other. Well I’m obviously not and I don’t think you are either, so why would scum!Shea make that comment about 2 town slots, right? That doesn’t make any sense, so Shea’s probably town for that.

I don’t remember that post of yours I was referring to. Can you link/quote that for me please?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just fade Norwegian or Pine and end this day

I understand your logic but you’ve been adamantly opposed to Pine being voted all game, so why would you want him flipped?

I also don’t get how you think a Norwee/Ram team makes any sense considering that Norwee wanted Pine’s head and Ram was adamantly opposed to it?

However I don’t understand why Pine and Ram prefer Shea > Norwee?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t understand the Shea over Norwegian thing either, and nobody’s explained why we’re just going for the compromise?

I’m anti compromise wagons. Ramcius also did a weird 180 the second Norwegian 180’d too, which i didn’t like

It’s kind’ve scaring me that I think you’re town. I also hate compromise wagons. I recall scum trying to convince me in a game that my being opposed to that was antitown.

One thing is very clear, scum are playing one helluva a good game no matter who they are.

[Nancy Drew 39]

From the current positions of what I see after reading up (skimmed), I feel like Pine/Norwegian fade opens up the game, Ramcius/Status is the fade scum want to keep the game WIFOM’able

Yeah I agree. You’re kind’ve thinking here like the opposite of what Ico did wrt to TGP but the difference is that I think Ico’s reasoning was correct at the time and yours is probably correct now.

What seems weird to me is that it seems that both Norwee and Pine could be pocketing you but they are the one team here that makes absolutely no sense, so at least one of them is probably being sincere.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, the break away (I’m still semi away) was good because when I checked for a little bit yesterday (I’m here but I’m not here, if that makes sense, site wide) made me scum read Norwegian slightly less.

I am in the position where I can tell one of Norwegian-Pine is scum with one of Ramcius-Status.

I’m still leaning Norwegian/Status, but Ramcius made me really nervous with his flip.

I still think that going in the Pine/Norwegian 1v1 is best because it gets rid of JK WIFOM either way

Unless you think that Shea flip is extremely unlikely, then you’d have to logically think Pine is bussing her if he/Shea are a team. But now Norwee agreeing to Shea flip is kind’ve weirding me out because he’s been hard defending him for almost the entire game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwee and Ramcius make a lot of sense as a team now that I think about it.

But I still just don't believe pines claim and norwee pine does not make sense to me as a team at all.

Yeah, they definitely don’t. Norwee was initially insisting on either Pine or himself be flipped, now he wants it to be you.

@Norwee, why are you proposing that we flip a slot you’ve been hard tr all game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unless you’re asking me why i’m coming up with a plan for if TSQ is eliminated, well that is because you people aren’t voting scum!Pine so we need a contingency plan for that.

Why is Shea your “contingency plan”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

oh also nancy I'm a he. Just FYI.

I know. Are you possibly misinterpreting my typo? “her” instead of “here”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unless you’re asking me why i’m coming up with a plan for if TSQ is eliminated, well that is because you people aren’t voting scum!Pine so we need a contingency plan for that.

Why is Shea your “contingency plan”?

He isn’t. Can you stop saying things i don’t stand for at all? I’m saying that IF TSQ for some reason becomes the elimination today despite all my wishes then we should follow my contingency plan in the case that they flip town.

????

I direct quoted you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

With FL's elaboration on his stance, we think he has reached the correct conclusion on the gamestate and therefore we object even harder to a TSQ flip.

Which is a you or Pine flip, so you’re fine then with possibly being the elim?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Between me and TSQ being the mislim, it being me is not preferable to Pine because that will prove how absolutely scummy he's been in regards to my slot in this whole game when i flip town.

Because the most unlikely team has always been and still is you/Pine.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Flavor Leaf

Who is Norwee’s partner here, if not Shea?

Ramcius

if you're pocketing me, then you/ramcius

Nancy town reading Ramcius so much is making me paranoid because she town reads scum a lot

Please don’t start that again. I was right on Pooky and Lunar, so don’t do that to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Flavor Leaf

Who is Norwee’s partner here, if not Shea?

Ramcius

if you're pocketing me, then you/ramcius

Nancy town reading Ramcius so much is making me paranoid because she town reads scum a lot

Please don’t start that again. I was right on Pooky and Lunar, so don’t do that to me.

also ye i agree thats kind of a gross argument

nancy's reads in this game are her reads in this game, regardless of anything in the past

<3 <3 <3

That’s the main reason I objected to the mason PT being released in FL vs Hectic, because FL really gives me a hard time and used that same argument against me. It hurt me in the PT and it hurts me here as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

seems like a pretty basic scum play

I don’t agree - Why not simply take the win of a Pine/Norwee dichotomy? (@Mistyx I’m at a family event and can’t drag out the full case, but pushing the current gamestate is the core premise of my case on Shea)

Why Shea > Norwee? You think Norwee’s a goon and Shea is a scum PR?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just fade Norwegian so i can prove i am right like always

If Ram is town, I’m so lording that back on you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i dont understand anti Ramcius-Norwegian?

for me it's either

Ramcius-Norwegian
Status-Norwegian
Pine-Ramcius

so it feels to me like status push is indicative of Ramcius scum

Scum has to have at least one goon right? So Norwee wanting to be limmed > Shea could possibly be for that reason - if he’s scum here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i just dont care about PR's like that, so i dont really grasp the entire thing

If Norwee is goon and Shea’s a PR, his wanting to be elimed before Shea makes sense. Obviously your hesitation is based on you doubting Ram but if Ram is Norwee’s partner then why is he trying to save Pine when Norwee was trying to kill him?

I really don’t see a Norwee/Ram team here. I still think he’s town but if not, he makes far more sense with Pine or you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

That is true. While I think Ram is town, I don’t understand the case on Shea? @Pine

[Nancy Drew 39]

i didnt want to discuss my planned target because i wanted to see how people would react to it

but this will get different reactions c:

But @Misty why would we vote for you when you’re very clearly bleeding obvtown here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with Shea here. I think if either he or Norwee are scum here, it really doesn’t make any sense with each other, so I think the whole let’s flip Norwee’s PR partner Shea is unpersuasive and very likely wrong.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i mean

i still have not seen an actual case on shea apart from PoE

which is fine but the PoE argument is coming from other people in the PoE

so it doesnt actually hold up

+1

The entire basis for flipping him seems to be exclusively tied to Norwee, which I think is clearly wrong. If either one is scum, it’s unlikely with each other because if the scumteam is exactly Norwee/Shea, then they are playing extremely suboptimally.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with Shea here. I think if either he or Norwee are scum here, it really doesn’t make any sense with each other, so I think the whole let’s flip Norwee’s PR partner Shea is unpersuasive and very likely wrong.

Nancy, I was clear enough before that my primary guess is TSQ/FL and Norwee simply don't have any other possible partner, I'm just saying that my guess might be wrong and FL is town here, then it leaves only Norwee to be TSQ's partner and Norwee can't be scum with anyone else

Why couldn’t Norwee be scum with anyone else? I don’t buy a Norwee/Shea team so Norwee is either scum with someone other than Shea or he’s town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with Shea here. I think if either he or Norwee are scum here, it really doesn’t make any sense with each other, so I think the whole let’s flip Norwee’s PR partner Shea is unpersuasive and very likely wrong.

Nancy, I was clear enough before that my primary guess is TSQ/FL and Norwee simply don't have any other possible partner, I'm just saying that my guess might be wrong and FL is town here, then it leaves only Norwee to be TSQ's partner and Norwee can't be scum with anyone else

This is not what you've been arguing literally the whole day.

Convenient how it changes now that nancy disagrees.

Ram/Norwee?

[Nancy Drew 39]

i mean

i still have not seen an actual case on shea apart from PoE

which is fine but the PoE argument is coming from other people in the PoE

so it doesnt actually hold up

Can you provide good case against Pine?

well, yes

he's been approaching today in a way that fits agenda

when norwee stopped being a viable push, he switched to shea, and hasn't provided an actual argument for doing so

Possibly could be wrong on Pine?

Unless it is exactly Shea/FL here, they’re probably both town. Still have some paranoia on Norwee/FL but I’m really thinking FL’s town.

I dislike that Shea is being pushed with pretty much no case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i mean

i still have not seen an actual case on shea apart from PoE

which is fine but the PoE argument is coming from other people in the PoE

so it doesnt actually hold up

Can you provide good case against Pine?

well, yes

he's been approaching today in a way that fits agenda

when norwee stopped being a viable push, he switched to shea, and hasn't provided an actual argument for doing so

Possibly could be wrong on Pine?

Unless it is exactly Shea/FL here, they’re probably both town. Still have some paranoia on Norwee/FL but I’m really thinking FL’s town.

I dislike that Shea is being pushed with pretty much no case.

Me too!

That's a huge part of why I'm confused as to your ramcius town read. He's the main catalyst of that.

I’m reevaluating because pretty much no one in the entire game has ever had you as their top sr. However, scum usually don’t try to tie themselves too closely, so I don’t really see a Pine/Ram team either. One is more likely than not a pocket if there’s scum in that pairing. However, that could be wrong. The fact that you have been pushed as Norwee’s PR partner makes me think that if you flip green, the idea is to clear Norwee. I think irrespective of Norwee’s alignment, FL looks to be set up as a possible miselim after your green flip, assuming you’re town here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m reevaluating because pretty much no one in the entire game has ever had you as their top sr. However, scum usually don’t try to tie themselves too closely, so I don’t really see a Pine/Ram team either. One is more likely than not a pocket if there’s scum in that pairing. However, that could be wrong. The fact that you have been pushed as Norwee’s PR partner makes me think that if you flip green, the idea is to clear Norwee. I think irrespective of Norwee’s alignment, FL looks to be set up as a possible miselim after your green flip, assuming you’re town here.

The idea that TSQ flipping green clears me is an argument Ramcius/Pine made, and i've said i do not agree with the wagon on TSQ in any way because my main scumreads are pushing it. Also your claim that FL is being set up as the next elimination on a TSQ flip is something i agree with, and which slots have been pushing for that? Pine/Ramcius again.

So you and FL are being set up as possible miselims following Shea flip if green. Yeah, it’s starting to look that way to me because unlike with the TGP push, where we thought he was your buddy based on how hard you defended him, the push on Shea keeps being presented as being necessary to clear you, which is whack.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What’s oddest to me is that FL is being suspected when he has been the towniest. I really feel Shea flip is a mistake here which tells us absolutely nothing because I don’t believe you and he are buddies.

Pine wants to flip Shea and jk you and Ram is saying you’d be clear in the event of his green flip, so yeah can totally see it as an FL fade following next and you as the miselim that loses us the game. So maybe you’re right. Jingle insisting that molla kill wasn’t obvious continues to bug me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Votecount 3.14

Pine(3)

~ NorwegianboyEE(481), thestatusquo(119), Akarin(104)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(461), Ramcius(144)

Mistyx(1)

~ Mistyx(136)


Not Voting (2): Nancy Drew 39(361), Pine(221)


With 8 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-24 12:25:00)

Mod Notes

• Have fun!

Yeah, I want to wait for Akarin but I’m leaning to hammer Pine now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Jingle insisting that molla kill wasn’t obvious continues to bug me.

Really as soon as it hit me that Jingle was Pine's partner, everything kinda flipped. Bingle did essentially the exact same thing to me as scum in Detective Penguin, appealing to my ego, town reading me when nobody else was, and i defended him throughout the game before my Day 4 misfade.

If Shea flips green here, I don’t think Norwee is getting pushed. It just seems to me that the only reason he’s being pushed here is as Norwee’s supposedly PR buddy and I don’t think they even make sense as a team here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Jingle insisting that molla kill wasn’t obvious continues to bug me.

Really as soon as it hit me that Jingle was Pine's partner, everything kinda flipped. Bingle did essentially the exact same thing to me as scum in Detective Penguin, appealing to my ego, town reading me when nobody else was, and i defended him throughout the game before my Day 4 misfade.

If Shea flips green here, I don’t think Norwee is getting pushed. It just seems to me that the only reason he’s being pushed here is as Norwee’s supposedly PR buddy and I don’t think they even make sense as a team here.

I think they make a lot of sense as a team, it's the going Status over Norwegian thing that doesn't make sense to me from their POV.

Status and Norwegian haven't pushed each other really at all.

Status pushes are on a directly different plane than Norwegian the entire game, so it makes sense to me that you missed it. You're really good at seeing what's going on right in front of you, and I'm the opposite of that, I look for what's going on behind the scenes. Norwegian/Status to me look like they've been powerhousing the game from multiple directions, and the thing that pinged me the most was Status going after Akarin when Norwegian and I were 1v1ing. It felt like he was trying to ease pressure off of Norwegian.

Norwegian/Ramcius team makes sense because of Ramcius pushing Norwegian the beginning of Day 2 and Day 3, but both days ended up pushing elsewhere, TGP and Status. Ramcius, if scum with Norwegian, they did a lot of scum theatre, but I never was able to remember anything about Norwegian vs Ramcius, and Norwegian was under a lot of pressure with Ramcius, and if the team is Ramcius/Norwegian, then Pine/Status is Town/Town, which means scum is on both sides of that, safe from a Norwegian fade.

Norwegian's cased Pine/Ramcius, and their sudden flip on me seemed like they were ready to turn on me if I ever flipped, and I really dislike Ramcius' immediate flip right after Norwegian flipped. It was gamestate positioning somehow, and i can see it coming from a town Ram, though, but that's in the Norwegian/Status world.

The thing is that both Pine and Ram want Shea flip and they really haven’t made a case for that. and both were voting with you on Norwee but I think but Ram switched to TGP and Shea switched from Pine to you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

without even saying who the case is on

Yeah, well we have less than two days now and Pine’s at E - 1.

[Nancy Drew 39]

and he roleblocked me when i softed PR

Wasn’t that an unverified claim since you have commuter?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Pine flips scum, great, Ramcius is scum.

If Pine flips town, we're fucked because it would be Norwegian/Status or Norwegian/Ramcius, and honestly, I think I'm probably the fade tomorrow in this scenario.

The only scenario I will be not upset losing to is if Mistyx is scum, because they already win if that's the case, but that's just me not wanting to deal with the aftermath of this game.

I’m pretty much willing to bet the game on Misty being town here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why not Shea/Norwee or Norwee/FL?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why not Shea/Norwee or Norwee/FL?

Why FL refused to vote TSQ? Also, you think that was scumtheather between Norwee and FL?

What happened to your Norwee TR? I mean, if you tried to pair me with TSQ/FL, it would be more reasonable that Norwee

Why?

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s possible.I just can’t help thinking that FL hammering is scum suicide, because it makes him look seriously bad and he usually tries to manipulate the gamestate better as scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

True. I wanted to wait for Pine to post his case. But don’t you think we can get more info after Norwee Shea, FL have posted? See who they push right?

[Nancy Drew 39]

True. I wanted to wait for Pine to post his case. But don’t you think we can get more info after Norwee Shea, FL have posted? See who they push right?

It's not like we can elim someone - we need 4 votes

I'd be surprised, if FL and TSQ would push something else than me/Norwee team, but I'm wondering what Norwee will say now, maybe he'll call us a scumteam

You and me? I seriously doubt that because I would then know Norwee’s lockscum because jjh has never wrongly read me, so very much doubt that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wonder why we’re the only ones who’ve posted.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Um, why no one talking? Anyway, anyone still doubt it's FL and TSQ? FL flipped on me and Pine, TSQ came up with me + Norwee team, it's obvious that they want to get either of us miselim'ed in ELO now

You flipped on me, don’t try and act like it was the other way around.

Norwegian/Status
Norwegian/Ramcius

So, you obviously think Norwee is lockscum from this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think I’m leaning Norwegian/Status over Norwegian/Ramcius, though.

Ramcius looks more setup right now than Status.

They were very obviously not interested in limming Pine, so they’re the least likely of the unconfirmed to be scum here fmpov.

Jjh insisted that Pine’s role was faked.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, Norwegian, Ramcius the only 3 unflipped on the TGP wagon

If we think it’s only 1 on that wagon, it’s Norwegian, with status scum.

If we think 2, then Norwegian/Ramcius.

Mistyx died over Nancy likely because of the PR, or i guess Nancy had wrong reads scum wanted to abuse.

Nancy was saying Norwegian/FL scum team, so that’s kinda 50/50.

Norwegian probably is able to win that 50-50 too here

Norwee made it abundantly clear that Misty would be the NK. You were leashed to Akarin and obviously scum feared her venge, so she was obviously seen as a bigger threat for that reason.

[Nancy Drew 39]

By the end of it, I was like 70% sure Pine was gonna flip scum.

But this means we get to trust Dannfloor’s case from earlier as 100% coming from town

He sounded a lot more earnest here than he did in F L v Hectic with his read on me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ramcius is next if this flips scum.

Hmmmm . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy I didn't go into too much detail on because she's a universal town read and basically everyone has said so, but shes not mech cleared.

Pine cleared me with Dann read.

VOTE: Shea

[Nancy Drew 39]

It looked like you were trying to shade me, when there’s really no reason to think I’m scum. At least 3 people have lockcleared me, so I thought you suddenly throwing me into the PoE when I could have hammered Pine at any point but obviously didn’t, looked scummy. Like you were possibly setting me up to be the game losing miselim.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also think that Ram is the least likely to be scum here, out of anyone save me, Akarin.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If you think there's any world where scum would be trying to misfade you in this endgame you seriously need to reevaluate. It would instantly lose them the game. I put you on my PoE becaue you're not mech cleared as far as I'm aware. That's literally it.

Why? They can probably misfade Ram, NK Akarin and possibly push me in Elo. I don’t know why you’d think that improbable.

The fact that your PoE is literally everyone who isn’t Akarin pinged me and you didn’t put tiers or anything.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hmm, maybe it is just ramcius/norwegian

Ram was trying the hardest to save Pine.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Math thinks it’s either you/FL or Norwee/FL but can see Norwee/you as well. If Norwee is scum but not with you, why would he have been opposed to flipping you, when it would have put him in the best possible position, right?

Scum!Norwee would want town!Shea flipped because then Pine probably jks Ram or maybe FL.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

[Nancy Drew 39]

hmm, maybe it is just ramcius/norwegian

Ram was trying the hardest to save Pine.

And Norwegian, who is confirmed scum from my eyes, was trying the hardest to fade pine

I don’t think it’s Ram, so if it’s not you, the team should logically be Norwee/Shea. Pine wanted to lim him so everyone on his wagon save Akarin is sus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think if norwee is scum they would prefer not to flip me because they think they have me pocketed, and its true I was strongly town reading them.

Norwee!scum but not with you looks best with a town!you flip. So he’s probably either your buddy or town because it really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that scum!Norwee tries to spare town!you.

Your townflip would look the best for him, because Ram kept saying it would basically clear him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think scum norwee wants me in endgame.

Scum wants a miselim today and if we don’t flip scum today, game ends with Akarin NK.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think scum norwee wants me in endgame.

Scum wants a miselim today and if we don’t flip scum today, game ends with Akarin NK.

or me or whomever else is town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really think it’s you because what you’re saying really doesn’t make much sense. I think that town!Norwee would want to spare you as would scum!Norwee who’s your buddy. I don’t understand why scum!Norwee who isn’t your buddy would want to spare you.