Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Wingback, I'll point it the posts in a bit. RC voting shadow and not giving a clear stance on whether he thins he's scum is an example, though I don't have a problem with the survivalistic vote since he clearly admitted it.
Farside is town for sure. She displays paranoia when town should be paranoid, is genuinely trying to figure out the game, and is Poe with her thoughts (the same reason why I townread lane to a lesser extent).-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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[float=][/float]^^ opportunistic as hell vote.
Also look at my sig.
About RC:
These are posts of his in his town game, they look very decisive and taking firm stances.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7551556
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7526278
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7531167
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7520172
In his scum game, he tends to be more cautious and takes fewer firm stances:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7632789
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7629799
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7645554
In this game he seems to be less decisive, closer to his scum game. For example:
Spoiler: less-decisive RC
Oh and I also just noticed this when I was going through, he made this post in his scum game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7653124
which brings up the same point he did in this post:
Although you could say "it's true no matter RC's alignment" it shows at least that RC does not just do that at town, and that it's possible he may feel the need to say that as scum when he does not as town.In post 262, RedCoyote wrote:As far as your reasons, going off of 135, you seem to be calling my posts "forced". Well, they kind of are, and, as I often have to begrudgingly admit (I say begrudgingly because it generally gets me in trouble even though it's true), I often do have to "force" myself when I draw town. I don't really enjoy playing town. Indeed, I only play Mafia for the opportunities to play as scum. Paradoxically, I tend to draw a lot of negative attention as town due to being more aggressive and devil-may-care with my posts. As scum, I tend to be much more muted and calculated.
Anyway, that's my meta rebuttal to your vote. Take it how you will.
It's the same type of "I'm gonna call out this thing I do as scummy so it becomes less scummy" thing he also did when he called his shadow vote opportunistic.
RC, can you point to an example of where you made this type of play as town?
Also, did you re-evaluate anything in particular after you made this post?
Also, do you think shadow is scum or not and why?In post 1101, RedCoyote wrote:Nevermind. Hm, that spat just made the game much more interesting.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Hehe, it's a lot different when you have pressure on you from the start...In post 1354, farside22 wrote:
Listen I had thought based on the newb game he played that he was a lot more articulate and able to express himself.In post 1351, Infinity 324 wrote:I TOLD YOU SO
The bumbling, lack of reads, tantrum was reading as flailing around.
The Link wing shared was a completed scum game where he was being voted and didn't act at all like that and was very calm and relaxed.
That's pretty surprising to see from a noob.
Anyways I'm going to have a bigger post late.
In case something happens while I'm gone and a hammer happens I'd like to bring up day 3, briefly.
I was thinking that if Infinity lives he should be given money for the first game win.
If he dies and flips cop, then wingback should receive the first pot to become bulletproof.
Your plan makes sense, if I'm still alive tomorrow it will let me live to get my second result. If not, wingback becomes conf town so yeah.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Yeah that definitely makes sense about fire and RC farside.
And yeah wingback, I didn't think about fire claiming roleblocked. I was thinking he was SK so he could use the extra kill to back up his vig claim, but mafia is probably more likely actually.
Fire really just don't have a genuine thought process behind his actions. He said the crux of his argument about mm was that he seemed informed, but only pointed out 1 post that implied that and it was very weak. He also said he was townreading me for my push on him, then changed it to a scumread also for my push on him, and no reason was given. His vig claim was probably to end discussion and get himself townread, and it worked well actually. He also got a claim out of me.
PEdit: Actually farside, in a recently completed game kuribo claimed vig as mafia to get out of a gunsmith guilty and he got away with it completely-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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There not much I have to say other than the shadow thing. It's more what isn't there than what is there.
O...kI do think Shadow has a good chance at flipping scum, btw. One thing I failed to add was that I see Shadow blindly following farside as a red flag. Shadow is acting very puppet-like. I look for that. I have scum and town reads, but I do not "proxy" my POV except under extreme circumstances. I don't see the atmosphere to do something like that this game, nor do I see Shadow's rationale for doing that. Does this position make sense?
I think the natural town thing to do was to give what you thought about shadow when you voted him, even if you voted him just to save yourself.
Ugh do I have to explain every time I think a post is town?
Why?In post 1337, Infinity 324 wrote:^^ town
I don't think it's something that scum would think to fake, that's it.
No, I meant where you openly admit something you do that's scummy (e.g. when you called your vote on shadow "opportunistic").
You mean my "I hate town" comment?In post 1348, Infinity 324 wrote:RC, can you point to an example of where you made this type of play as town?
I mean after where I and fire claimed. You said it made the game more "interesting", did it change any opinions of yours?Re-evaluate? My farside vote was a reevaluation, as is my Shadow vote, frankly.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Dude, I gave my opinion, that's all I can explain. You don't seem to be taking very many solid stances on the game, and meta indicates that you do that as scum more so than town. The farside post is a gut thing, I can't explain it any more than I did.In post 1411, RedCoyote wrote:In post 1408, Infinity 324 wrote:It's more what isn't there than what is there.In post 1408, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't think it's something that scum would think to fake, that's it.
Sometimes I think you care about this game and sometimes I think you don't.
But what you said doesn't really tell me what you think about shadow's alignment...Which is what I did. You acknowledge this, correct?
I also think that town would've at least tried to re-evaluate some things after the claims, you just called it "interesting" and didn't really say anything about it after that. This is another example where I would've expected you to take a stance on something.In post 1302, RedCoyote wrote:UNVOTE: farside22; VOTE: Shadow_Step
This is mostly an opportunistic vote, but it's also kind of a "better" vote than farside as I forgot that q was on my townie side yesterday, but not really a huge townread. In that sense, I would be more willing to see him go than someone I'm much more confident about like a SS or a lane or a FA.
Let me see if there's anything worth responding to.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I didn't investigate shadow, he's just scum because the RC hop looks really bad with his town flip and because of PoE.
You guys are overthinking this. Fire and shadow have been coasting along, voting opportunistically and not giving reason for their reads. The rest of us are clearly at least trying to figure out the game..
I'm worried about scum having a strongman because fire keeps pushing the idea of throwing the money to someone, but I don't see a downside in trying...
Fire, you have no business calling out other people's read progressions when you suddenly started scumreading me yesterday for no apparent reason.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Fire is clever, he found a way to stop his failed push on me and found a way out of proving his big claim at the same time. Doesn't make him any less scum though.
PEdit: and then when I explained my read you didn't pay any attention to it...
PEdit 2: scum wanted to leave their mislynch options open apparently.
PEdit 3: well you haven't been coasting as much as shadow I guess-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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You came up with an explanation for both you not shooting and for me being town based on your claim.
And also I made a whole case on mm but everyone just ignored it and continued on.
PEdit: wingback convinced me you could be mafia yesterday, didn't really think about mafia claiming vig but that seems to be what's happening-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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In post 1073, Infinity 324 wrote:
I think scum!mm would just make a more defined reads list instead of having to rely on his explanation.In post 97, The MM wrote:
Because it has some leanings (some are so soft they don't show up in the final results) and I'm making sure everyone keeps track of that. I'm not writing down people as scum or town this easily as y'all, that's it. Do I need to write down my tiniest leans? People can change my opinion of them in one post.In post 93, Persivul wrote:VOTE: The MM
Based on the chip dumping theory and a reads list full of nulls. If you don't have any reads yet, why put up a list? Oh yeah...because it looks kinda townie.
I don't think scum!mm would have questioned my townread on him here.
I don't like the term "frazzled" for some reason. Going against the flow is kind of in my personality, especially when the flow is dictated by other people.In post 957, Infinity 324 wrote:
He seems like frazzled noob town the whole game and has been going against the flow mainly. He seems to believe what he says.In post 954, lane0168 wrote:Infinity. Why is the mm town then? Why do you townread him?
Also, the only people with no reason to believe what they say are lying scum. Townies only lie for gambits, and even then that's pretty horrid.
Feels town to me
This is really towny, not seeing scum faking this thought process at all.In post 136, The MM wrote:This sounds like such, but my bet was short-sighted and I recognize it. I was kinda between "oh look some guy's all-in'ing and I'm sure to eat him let's f*ckin do this" and "some dumbnut's bluffing is killing the gimmick, let's stop this rite now" in my head.
I was sure to only need to take one guy's money because of my own habits when I create such game systems, which is basically me screwing myself over, but whatever. I sure hope Kappy folds, at least this entire thing will have harmed the least people possible and I still get 1k$ until some people decide it's a great idea to lynch me.
Not caring what other people think of him, scum would try to blend in more.In post 586, The MM wrote: (To all of you who say "yay finally MM writes town or scum in a read yay", screw you.)
Frustration with being voted for no reason looks townIn post 562, The MM wrote:
And how so? You're not just thinking of brutalizing people into voting someone else without presenting evidence, are you?In post 509, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:We're both being sensible. Except for now you're voting me when we should be voting MM.
Another very town thought process, scum wouldn't care about how hard to read someone is.Lane looks like in the middle of a meltdown that is so incredibly stupid I can't get a true read on him because he pushes for my lynch like his life depends on it. Which makes no fucking sense.
Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.
The conviction here is more likely to come from town, scum would try to just try to make better arguments to convince people instead of trying to fake a rage fit.
All your monies are belong to me, which ofc would make me lynch bait because scum wants the power roles dead. It's one of the few cases whereIn post 954, lane0168 wrote:Really? So you're completely writing off the possibility for the mm scum as well. Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. The mm can't possibly be scum. The only explanation is he must be mislynch bait. What the fuck? There are several reasons he should be lynched. Love how he's one of the leading wagons all day yesterday and all of a sudden hes lynch bait.town wins nothing. As for your several reasons I should be lynched, your dumbassery doesn't count as a reason, me having the Tracker shot is a reason NOT TO LYNCH ME, and of course I've been making the fire wagon, so you're relying too much on fire not to be scum.
1060 just makes no sense from a scum perspective, though it is obviously confirmation biased and biased from personal issues that mm has with FA.
Basically MM says what he thinks and doesn't care about what other people think. His thoughts and emotions are towny and would be very hard to fake. I don't see anything mm does as scum-motivated, except maybe that he doesn't give clearly defined reads.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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What's up mathblade, can you not tunnel on town this game
The reason people are betting is because we want to give our money to someone to make them BP (that's what happens when you win the only hand in the day phase). I think I should get the BP since I'm an odd-night cop so I'll get another result tonight if I live.
Do you have a role other than the tracker thing you got or were you originally VT?
PEdit: I'm assuming math hadn't read the game yet lol-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Lane and mathblade, calm down. Town getting riled up is a great way for scum to win.
Mathblade, you're wrong about lane but right about fire. Lane's post wasn't a scum slip, I don't see what you're talking about. And if lane wanted to give money to fire, fire would've just called him.
Lane, I don't know why mathblade is still alive but killing confirmed town makes sense no matter who scum is.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Speaking of massclaim, we just massclaimed and there are no PR's other than us two.
If you said the scum shot disappeared, no doctor would basically confirm you as scum.
I'd be fine with lynching shadow today and forcing fire to prove his shot again, but then he can just claim roleblocked...-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Well first of all you said lane should get the BP not me which is suspicious in and of itself
And I feel you might have a strongman or smth by the way you kept pushing for the money-dumping plan
PEdit: yeah but it still looks pretty suspicious.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Not saying pushing the plan was scummy, but it's still possible from scum, especially if there's a strongman.In post 1673, Fire Assassin wrote:
I have literally been pushing for money on anyone but me, how in the hell are you scumreading me for my money plan. When I have never once pushed the idea for me to get items or money.In post 1672, Infinity 324 wrote:Well first of all you said lane should get the BP not me which is suspicious in and of itself
And I feel you might have a strongman or smth by the way you kept pushing for the money-dumping plan
PEdit: yeah but it still looks pretty suspicious.
You are beyond ridiculous.
I am not going to say I have been the most town person this whole game, but that plan alone was the most townie thing in this game, and to you too twist it to call it part of some masterplan is beyond me.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Look over his ISO and look at his read progressions. They don't make sense.In post 1682, Titus wrote:@infinity, fire is probably just stubborn town.
Meanwhile, the other scum...
In post 1693, Shadow_step wrote:In post 790, Something_Smart wrote:What do people think about my points against MM/FA? I thought they were pretty noteworthy but people seem to just be ignoring them.
Were you scum reading MM based on their interactions only or anything else?In post 825, Something_Smart wrote:I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.
@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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YeahIn post 1701, Shadow_step wrote:So what?
The fear of being tracked is not more than having a conf town in the game ?
Think about it this way, since fire claimed vig he had an out if he was tracked to a kill (not in the case of wingback, but still). So he's unlikely to be tracked. So he could do the kill and not be scared of a tracker.
In general a 1-shot track is not the scariest thing in the world for scum.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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You mean the "assassin" part? I think that comes from his name...In post 1714, MathBlade wrote:Infinity bear with me phone posting
This post here is either a crumb for a vig or a crumb of scum faking vig and I don't know which.In post 254, Fire Assassin wrote:An assassin walks into town and calls you all out to play a poker game with me.
Are you all yellow or what?
PEdit: Fire didn't say he would shoot until d2. So that's kind of irrelevant-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I liked his play d1 though. It's true he hasn't done that much since then, but I think he was away for some time and I get the impression he's trying to figure stuff out.In post 1741, farside22 wrote:okay I need a quick look at this. I feel certain that Smart is scum. I know I said that about RC and FAQ.
But seriously the dude has no cases, no scum reads other then me and the engagement most of the game is lack luster at best.
EhhIn post 1742, farside22 wrote: You are town reading Mathblade but I'm a bit unsure can you explain why these things read town to you?
Last game me and math played together we were both town, and they tunneled on me and weren't very logical iirc (sorry math)
Honestly after mini 1800 I've given up on trying to read math, but mm was so towny that I'm comforable with calling that slot town
Yeah I think they would buy like a JK or somethingIn post 1752, MathBlade wrote:Now as potential scum with an odd night cop and a vig why would scum need a tracker? Keep in mind in a Math!scum world one of these have to be town. (Granted the math scum world is stupid but...) Why the hell would MM not buy something more useful?
*cough* shadow *cough*-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Well you said I was stupid hereIn post 1782, Shadow_step wrote:
Have you been skimming my posts?In post 1781, Infinity 324 wrote:You can't commute and kill at the same time lol
Do you still think I'm scum or did you drop that read for no good reason?
I've already said you're dumb and not likely scum.
Based on interactions I'm feeling it's Smart and Mathblade.
But you never mentioned that I wasn't likely to be scum...In post 1697, Shadow_step wrote:If I was the vig I would have shot Infinity 10 times over for being stupid.
If scum win this you should get the MVP award.
This or fire, guys.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Ok, you implied it BUT YOU NEVER GAVE A REASONIn post 1794, Shadow_step wrote:
I've obviously implied it when I talk about the MVP award.In post 1784, Infinity 324 wrote:
Well you said I was stupid hereIn post 1782, Shadow_step wrote:
Have you been skimming my posts?In post 1781, Infinity 324 wrote:You can't commute and kill at the same time lol
Do you still think I'm scum or did you drop that read for no good reason?
I've already said you're dumb and not likely scum.
Based on interactions I'm feeling it's Smart and Mathblade.
But you never mentioned that I wasn't likely to be scum...In post 1697, Shadow_step wrote:If I was the vig I would have shot Infinity 10 times over for being stupid.
If scum win this you should get the MVP award.
This or fire, guys.
Seriously take your tinted glasses off
ffs
If he bet all his money, we would see how much he had left and therefore how much he used.In post 1796, MathBlade wrote:
How? If he was scum and bought daychat as I think scum would, then if their partner was lying about their claim as one of the PRs I believe is, all they have to do is say "roleblocked" and then Smart makes the kill.In post 1792, Infinity 324 wrote:Well shadow was the only one that would have the money, he could be fakeclaiming buying JK but I believe him and it can be tested.
I disagree that scum would necessarily want daychat, JK would be pretty useful as well and shadow had enough money for either.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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