Mini 1592: Flying Aces (Game Over)

[farside22]

/confirm

[farside22]

VOTE: baezu

She knows why

[farside22]

3 town reads on page 2.
I hope the rest of this game is on easy mod.

Gut check

VOTE: Majiffy

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell, majiffy and pash.

why not: do you think pants keeping his vote on pash is scummy?

Thor: I get your point, question is meta enough to make you unvote? Pash over explaining and discussion about how his vote is perceived...can't say without game reference to say if I would.

Dr.pant: link to game you are referring to about pasch please.

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I don't see it as "completely null".
Thor's "explanation" of old school ways extended as far as saying that scumhunting hasn't really changed. Scum motivation is still scum motivation. Which supports my argument.
And I've explained why I don't see Pasch's argument as false, merely a bit exaggerated. Which is typical Pasch playstyle, as has already been explained by Pants.

Anything else?

It's an rvs vote.
Why take it seriously?

[farside22]

Just going to point out both of these were stated before dr. Pants explained himself fully.

Yeah, but it's not like Shiryu's vote is actually scummy either, I'm basically backing you on a OMGUS vanity wagon. I'm fine with that, and fine with making him dead, let's just be honest about the relative strength of reads here - the cat is not more townish than Shiryu right now.

No but his overexplaining is troubling. Both in reference to his lack of present meta knowledge and the whole 'look im makjng a joke rvs post about a joke! Like me guys plz!'

I dont have an issue with it. Hes going a bit far - making it out to be a conscious manipulative vote - but its not inherently untrue.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

[farside22]

Because Shin-whateverthefuck already has their role PM. And I agree with Pasch, except he believes the motivation he outlined was a

conscious effort

while I believe it was

unconscious

. Either way, still alignment-indicative, and still indicative of SCUM.

Which you would probably get if you bothered to even read the damn posts in that big whopping 5 pages of a thread we have.

I know, hard work, that reading.

Post 54 from you makes me seriously doubt you see it as unconscious.

[farside22]

Scum reading Marcrell,

majiffy

and pash.

Go on

You basing a push on something completely null, then are happy with your vote even after Thor and shir explain old school ways.
The vote was rvs and your satisfied with this:

Pointing out the pointlessness of your vote, like that it's over a joke, only serves to distance yourself from it if it goes to lynch. I don't like it, not even on page 2.

VOTE: Shiryu

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I don't see it as "completely null".
Thor's "explanation" of old school ways extended as far as saying that scumhunting hasn't really changed. Scum motivation is still scum motivation. Which supports my argument.
And I've explained why I don't see Pasch's argument as false, merely a bit exaggerated. Which is typical Pasch playstyle, as has already been explained by Pants.

Anything else?

I just realized your understanding pants meta on pasch but ignoring the fact pants is still voting pasche.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

Except Pasch wasn't overexplaining, Pasch was overtheorizing. Exaggerating. Not trying to explain themselves too much.

Which is really obviously totally different and I am going to tunnel the shit out of you if Shir flips scum.

Lack of present meta isn't necessary. But Shir is covering his bases for future scummy play.

Post 54 from you makes me seriously doubt you see it as unconscious.

I'm not sure you quite understand the difference between conscious and unconscious in the realm of mafia.

Why is exaggerating a town tell in this case. Once again let's refer to your post before meta discussion happened.


As for your second statement, I mean theory about shir. Have we met?
I'm farside.
I hate theories. I think anything a player says can be spinners into a theory and is not scum hunting for worth voting for.
Nice to meet you.
Is your name scum?

[farside22]

I have to ask is there an ignore feature on ms I'm not seeing? I just felt the back and forth between maf and me was ignored.

FTR: I expect better from majiffy to do better then vote and push for the shit reason he is doing. Never mind that his oppinion of pasch is before meta reasoning and he used that as an excuse to be fine with pasch exaggeration.

[farside22]

@thor: I'm not sure about pants currently to vote.
I feel stronger that majiffy using a theory he pulled out of his ass to push a case, instead of something like pasche is more scummy. When exaggerating becomes a non concern or not worth being concerned. I have to wonder where the town mentality is.

[farside22]

Which is over the top reaction to an rvs vote.
Rvs doesn't ever fucking last unless said player is lurking it up.

I like to get serious as soon as possible. If you truly believe that RVS votes are random, then any reaction to an RVS vote is over the top. Clearly I don't think that. I hope you don't either, because then the only way to get past it is to make a big deal out of nothing every single game. Instead, RVS ends with players taking RVS votes seriously and analyzing them.

Shir scummy for over explaining but pasch isn't? No seriously either over explaining yourself is scummy or it's not.
Also why is lack of present meta even necessary? I sure as heck didn't read games or scum theories bs when I took time off mafia.

Do you not see the differences between our explanations? Shiryu tried to laugh off a vote and avoid taking responsibility for it. I disclosed my thoughts and justified a vote. Why do you think explaining is towny or scummy and not how, why, or what you explain?

@Anatole: What do you mean by "fishing for reads"? Shouldn't we all want reads from each other?

@Pants: So, pick a conclusion? Does my vote look more or less scummy to you? I assume your opening vote on me was just because lately we've been in so many games together, but that was before I even posted. You've said that my actions so far match my town meta, but you "didn't like" my vote. So which is it? And what the hell does this mean?

plus, "unvote" is not scum. its mod confirmed.

Peedit: Farside, I don't think you understand the point that Majiffy was making with "exaggeration". He's not suggesting that I'm being dishonest. He's saying I'm reading too much into it.

Phone posting.
If my answers confuse you let me know.

I don't really know your play. You were 4th on a wagon that was built up.
Some take things seriously and majiffy said he was serious so I have to assume others are voting for the reasons they stated. Your reasoning is bad. Not just bad it's baseless.
You seem to think I'm calling you scum for having a reason to vote and that is false.
I'm finding it scummy to exaggerate.
You stated that his vote was to take responsibility of a lynch off of him. How is that possible with an rvs start?
I'd like an answer to that by the way.
After shir just strikes me as trying to figure things out. He's not town or scum but the wagon and push for it is more scummy the shir.

I'm going to disagree with your conclusion mostly because I felt differently reading the post.
Typically something like shir's post is more awkwardly scummy but some players that are green around the ears are not sure how to start rvs. He didn't come off as joking but more like I'm being cute.

As for majiffy he's come to a conclusion and pushed it. Yes I use your post as an example because majiffy had no issue with your exaggeration. Instead if explaining why he used a meta reference from a player not only still voting you but was brought up after the fact. I wanted to see how majiffy responded to a post that wasn't looking on the up and up to me.
His response leads me to concluded scum either buddying or protecting.
Scum either way.


So why are you still voting shir? Do you think his post is enough to lynches and call part of a scum team?

[farside22]

Will you lynch Shir if I flip town, farside?

Do you have something other the rvs bs built on theory?

[farside22]

@thor: I'm stubborn and I don't really see a reason to switch votes. Marcell wagon looks good.

Majiffy: thought on Marcell or wagon there?

[farside22]

Will you lynch Shir if I flip town, farside?

Do you have something other the rvs bs built on theory?

You mean like how they tried to push all the votes on them as still purely random?

Might be a thing.

I thought he was referring to just your vote. Why do you think it was everyone's vote?

[farside22]

Majiffy: you have any other scum reads besides shir?

[farside22]

Just you, for defending Shir so adamantly and with epic moonlogic.

Calling a case bad with bad reasoning is not defending a player. I swear the next person who equates calling a case shit as defending needs to be shot.


@thor: Marcell wagon is due to his question about town reads. So far 2 votes on there. Saw marcel posting on ms earlier so I'm intrigued.

[farside22]

Shiryu is an RVS wagon

That'd be a no.

Cool dog called it an rvs vote.


I stick with not scum tell for 100 Alex!

@cooldog: I really don't get you feeling towards Thor on this.

[farside22]

Just because the majority believes in something doesn't necessitate that belief as the truth.

But I'm scummy for calling your case shit. Oh wait sorry defending the player, which I didn't do.


Have I mentioned I expect better from you yet?
Well I do. Your scum hunting skills I consider to be better than scum reading a played based on the reason you stated. Then to hold onto it because the player says he thought it was random.
With all that is going on you hold to that?!? Pfft.

[farside22]

Sorry. This didn't post to my email so I didn't know it started. Here now so start attacking farside is town btw

Please no fake claiming .......... unless your scum.

I know Pasche, so I opened the game by talking with him/about him

read through the first couple pages of this game. This player list is intimidating. Most of the players are experienced enough that they even have specific tells for RVS, to the point where someone like Shiryu can make a semi awkward first impression and get flash tunneled for it. So it was easier for me to get into the game talking to a player I've played with a lot

Hmmm

VOTE: Pants

[farside22]

yeah i typed that up when thor first pushed you

Not voting due to thor reason.

I've been bugged by a few things.

Pants: why do you think majiffy's push is scummy? If you started town reading pasch why did you not ask for his views? Also....intimating....this group? Sounds a little insecure and self aware. Is that typically feelings you have?
Finally it seems your reasoning on pasch changed a bit as far as what changed your views.

[farside22]

The Shiryu wagon is fine,a nd I find some of Majiffy's reasoning suspect (hence why I called him scum earlier) but he is not scum for pushing a wagon - pushing a wagon early is a town or null tell. It doesn't help scum particularly, and they only do it based on their own playstyle.

Going to disagree, mostly because he stickying to the point and being pretty blah about what's going on in the game. Low hanging fruit case from good players usually set my scum radar to full of shit.

[farside22]

I'm good now.

VOTE: Majiffy

Baezu: you want to expand more, other the sheeping. Or give me your current scum reads.

[farside22]

Majiffy seems to ignore when shir last played mafia. Anyone want to enlighten him, since shir mentioned it himself and all.

[farside22]

@shir: I see you've logged into ms today. You going to comment about anything?

[farside22]

Farside's characterization of my actions are a big part of it. Misunderstanding or misrepresenting Majiffy's take on it in an attempt to create suspicion of me. Attempting to rely on a color-by-numbers approach with the whole "how is one player explaining a lot town and another scum" bit, rather than actually analyzing the differences. I don't think she's stupid, so why be so dense? Pants was establishing how I'm often lynchbait on day 1, so perhaps Farside was attempting to take advantage of that for a uncontroversial day 1 mislynch. In 109 it looks like she's arguing that we shouldn't be analyzing content at all and should just be voting on gut feeling or looking for tells all the time. She also thinks that being 4th on a wagon is apparently suspect. She's also very defensive against Majiffy, despite him not voting for her or pursuing her. And above, he explicitly doesn't think she's scum. Her votes on Pants and Majiffy are unfounded. Are they just gut? Are they jokes? Are they bullshit? I return to my original accusation of Shiryu, of distancing oneself from the consequences of one's vote. As I said before, scum worry about how their votes will look after the wagons they push flip town.

Some talks about mischaracterization and does it about my post.

Please explain how you conclude post 109 were do I say that people should be using gut?
If your unclear I stated theories that have no bases in fact are not a scum fucking tell.
Can you quote where I stated I found you scummy for being 4th on the wagon. Pretty sure that was shir.
Obviously your not reading my post. Why don't you ask me if you don't see a point or case?
You still have yet to explain why you think an rvs vote would lead you to your theory.

[farside22]

So, hoping to hear from Marcrell soon, as I'm honestly getting the most scummy vibes from him. Lack of activity aside, he basically akwnoledged jumping on the vote wagon with the only reasoning that my post was shitty. Won't place a vote on him since he has yet to post, and my question to him from my last post remains unanswered.

On the other hand, despite Majiffy's insistence on keeping his vote on me, at least he expanded on his reasoning. Kinda get the logic, and I honestly don't think he's scum so far. Just that he's sure he's picked up on what he feels to be a scum tell from my manner of posting. Given that his vote was serious, I've begun to think that the same likely applies to Pasch. He's also explained his reasoning. And now that I'm looking back on it, would it really be over-analysing it? Anyway, going on this, don't think either of them is too likely to be scum.

Out of the others, I'd say I'm slightly suspicious of how short both Baezu's and viking cat's posts have been.

Everyone else is honestly looking like town for me so far. Which is something that kinda worries me as far as Thor and farside are concerned, since I could honestly see them as just being good scummy smoothtalkers.

Also, I plan to just work with the info I'm getting from this game and will ignore anything that might have happened in other games.

@Majiffy: Do you plan on keeping your vote on me until the end of today?

@farside: Pasch did bring up a good question, though. What specifically was your reason for your vote on Majiffy?

Majiffy was pushing a scum tell on something that was null.
He preceded to push said case that is over confident for rvs point he was pushing.
That aside he's discussed nothing else of value going on in the game.
That said what took you so long to respond to this game ?

Shiryu, I voted you along those reasons, yes. I also figured wagon will simulate discussion, so I jumped. There is little further use in it, however. UNVOTE:
Anawhatever's vote on me was utter crap. Information helps everyone but scum. CooLDog seems fairly town so far. Don't like farside not outing his reads. He set himself up to say he had reads, but doesn't say what they are. Gives him time to find the reads least likely to garner suspicion. Sorry about lack of quoted posts, my phone doesn't like quoting multiple posts, and I eventually gave up.

Why do you need to know someone's town reads?

[farside22]

Just an FYI. I think saying who your town reads are helps scum more then town.
Who's scum with a reason is more important to me.

[farside22]

Actually regarding 2) I understand what you were trying to say (really poor phrasing) but... Overconfidence is neither a town nor scumtell. Also I don't consider myself overconfident in the least in the wagon I was pushing. I have provided the most legitimate wagon to have yet existed in this game.

You did ask me if I would lynch shir if you flip town.
Noted you did not say when.

No I'd say that push was rvs pointlessness.

As for proof, you want me to pull up people who are not apt playing mafia and sound awkward?
Or do you want me to pull off proof that over explaining rvs is null?

I'm still waiting for you to explain how exaggerating is a town tell.

[farside22]

I'm still waiting for you to explain how exaggerating is a town tell.

I never said it was. I said PASCH doing it is a towntell. Because that's just how Pasch plays.

Tells are RARELY IF EVER black or white. They're usually playstyle-independent. Meta.

Sucks, because I hate meta just as much as anyone else pre-2012. But it's here, it's rainbowcolored, deal with it.

I'm going to say this one last fucking time.
How do you know what his playstyle was before pants stated what it was?

@pasche:
quote]You still have yet to explain why you think an rvs vote would lead you to your theory.[/quote]
[

[farside22]

I'm still waiting for you to explain how exaggerating is a town tell.

I never said it was. I said PASCH doing it is a towntell. Because that's just how Pasch plays.

Tells are RARELY IF EVER black or white. They're usually playstyle-independent. Meta.

Sucks, because I hate meta just as much as anyone else pre-2012. But it's here, it's rainbowcolored, deal with it.

I'm going to say this one last fucking time.
How do you know what his playstyle was before pants stated what it was?

I'm going to say it again.

I've played with Pasch a lot.

Ah I glazed past that.

I also officially take back my comment about farside being a smooth talker.

My sig should cover my lack of ability to be smooth.

[farside22]

Maf asked me about my null read reasoning.
I modded a newb game that started with intro's and people talking about themselves.

here red was jokey and empty talked about his experience and how he hadn't been around.
I noted shir stated he hadn't been around for 7 years and things were more chatty back in the day during rvs.
Rqs was a thing.

[farside22]

@baezu: can you explain majiffy town read a bit more. You used 2 post examples and as far as I see majiffy just kind of tunneled on a weak read then stopped scum hunting except to associate defending a player as scum buddies. Since then majiffy had no reads to talk about from anyone.
Don't disagree about messiah but it's a gut check thing.

@messiah: I believe you 2 have played with majiffy? If so why is he a scum read based on what you know of him?

[farside22]

^do you only defend yourself? And do nothing else.

Yup.

Also I think baezu is town.

[farside22]

At this point I'd be split between Marcrell and viking cat. That's not to say I now think Baezu's town. She's just debunked the one reason I was seeing her as being more scummy than the other which prompted my vote on her.

I'll have to correct myself on my previous post 233 where I stated everyone else was looking town for me. Specifically, the only two I'm relatively certain will be town are Majiffy and, to a lesser extent, Pash. When I said "everyone else is looking like town", I should have instead said I'm getting null readings from them. Not getting any scummy vibes from them, but could very well see them being scum just playing their role well (and that includes you, CooLDoG).

Special distinction for Pants, who I honestly think will end up being town just on gut feeling alone, but who's otherwise been looking pretty suspicious.

Reading back on Messiah's post 282, though, I'm not all that convinced on his reasoning for voting Majiffy. It's essentially the same as Pants and farside, but without going into as much detail, and more noticeably for me, was made

after

Majiffy had unvoted me in

235

. To me, that makes the argument hold less water.

Agreed and it does bother me that messiah did as much....

Fuxk it

Vote: messiah

[farside22]

Messiah is neither 100% town nor 100% scum. Happy with my current vote, but worth looking into with more time.

Who else are you scum reading. I get it. You see thor as scum. Does everyone else look like nothing with pursing?

[quote="measiah]@Farside- I’m not used to lazy wagons from Jiffy. I am used to seeing him analyze a player and their posts to make a solid read based off more than what he is doing now. That is why I am scum reading him and voting him. I do not like the push he has made, from the beginning or currently. I think he is wrong. The only thing that would make me question my read on him is the ferocity that he is showing going after this , imo, mislynch. He is a stellar player though and would know that scum would stick out by doing this, which would be his defense of why he isn’t scum.[/quote]

This seems the opposite of what I think scum would do. And I would not say vote for x while adding nothing to the game is going after a mislynch with ferocity.

[farside22]

I think the most town driven wagons in this game are the wagons on Baezu and Marcrell. I am feeling way better about the Marcrell case but if nothing moves here I might move the vote to Baezu. As a particular note here to farside: You have called the Marcrell wagon "good" several times in this game, still you put a vote on Messiah Complex, when he has 0 votes, while the Marcrell wagon has already 2. If you really think the Marcrell wagon is good, what does this achieve but distraction?

Messiah caught my attention and I forgot about Marcell.pretty certain.......yup he's actively avoding this game

I need a refresher in the guy. Guve me a moment.

[farside22]

Marcell has brought nothing to this game. Ask a question sbout town reads, complained about the votes on him and preceded to do vague accusations on players with no scum hunting.

VOTE: Marcell

Fos jiffy, messia

.

[farside22]

Yeah I posted a game example on why I see it as null. Majiffy obviously doesn't give two shits

[farside22]

Probably town. ThorScum would interact with me differently. Probably let me run rampant. He's trying to curtail me in.

I felt like when the game started you were both in bowl-the-game-over mode and I thought one of you was probably scum.

I'm not sure now, because you've done stuff I think comes from town-you.

We both take similar approaches regarding wagons in RVS/early-game.

Links?

[farside22]

See this is the stupid meta shit I can agree with Cooldog on.

I'm not digging through 100+ games just to find one with Thor in it just to validify a statement that Thor can readily answer when he comes back.

Oh but you wanted me to dig for fucking proof you fucking theory was null.
WtfE

[farside22]

No, I wanted you to explain your argument. Which doesn't require digging of any sort.

As you'll note, I don't think an example of "look a townie did this!" is substantial to rebuke my argument.

Sure I've seen town do exactly what you implied shir did and were newbs.
Apparently that was enough for another player to say who you never fucking questioned are accused of fuckind defending a player.
Oh selective scum hunting they return once again .

Still looking for someone to explain any town reads I majiffy currently.
He 's tunneled one player, voted another with no comment and continues to coast through this game with shit reads.
I expect shit reads from baezu not Jiffy

[farside22]

And yes a townie player doing it does rebuke. Because it means someone not scum did it null
How many examples you want because the game I fucking linked had intro. Hey maybe people think intros are normal to do ? No that only on example. Should we ask shir what was normal start?


Hey shir: when starting a game of mafia what was the norm for rvs?

Oh look it's called a question jiffy. To see what the player says instead of weak tells.

[farside22]

And now to continue re-reading the thread.

Hey shir: when starting a game of mafia what was the norm for rvs?

So I realize you're probably just using the question to prove your point to Jiffy, but hey I'll bite. From what I recall, people usually would start of with some silly/witty banter as a way to ease into the game and break the ice, and make up whatever reason to place a vote. The vote itself would of course be completely random if the player was town, and might as well be random if they were scum since they could just as easiy vote for a town or another scum player. Eventually either a wagon would be started or someone would take a vote seriously (even if they knew it wasn't) to get a proper discussion going. So yeah, I do recall the rvs stage being very tongue-in-cheek.

Well jiffy was asking for null reasoning and apparently one post isn't enough so asking the player in question what was norm should be part of it.

He's in a scum doing bad reasoning tunnel.
Weak theory, weak reason and u bet even after this he would still say he was justified to tunnel on that shit.

[farside22]

[Majiffy]'s in a scum doing bad reasoning tunnel.
Weak theory, weak reason and u bet even after this he would still say he was justified to tunnel on that shit.

Irony.

You're dodging my questions. Go answer my questions.

Why? You want to go round and round something you've already backed away from and declared shir town. What is your point?you don't want to meta research shit when asked. You expect examples with research if why something is null. Please let me know when your standards you call for should not include proof from you.

[farside22]

And yes a townie player doing it does rebuke. Because it means someone not scum did it null

How many things can you say only scum has done? Please provide examples.
Your position nullifies every possible argument to playing this game except for relying entirely on power roles to win games for town. You cannot scumhunt with this position.

Oh look it's called a question jiffy. To see what the player says instead of weak tells.

What response would be indicative of town? I bet I could find scum making a similar response! Uh oh, must be a null question! Better not ask it.

You can research if the player is lying with shir as an example. Go look how many games he played, bet it takes 20 minutes to see what rvs was like, oh wait I did that before I asked which was why it was null.

[farside22]

I never requested research I asked for arguments. From you.

Explaining

why what I read as scum is null.

You instead offer two newbies independently taking two actions as an explanation that neither explains nor shows any understanding on your part of my argument.

Yet you continue to press me on things you readily admit I have dropped and wont even answer my incredibly simple questions.

Im trying to discern

your

alignment. And youre not making me feel good about it.

All I see you asking is about the same thing. Admittedly I have ADD, so what specific question that has nothing to do with the rvs vote did I miss?

[farside22]

Baezu: scum reads Marcell, jiffy and messiah.
Need to reread a few people that are on my null list, Thor and cyber bob debate basically.

[farside22]

Jiffy has only 2 scum reads. Pfft
Both who voted for him and think he's scum.
Wow nothing omgus about that.

[farside22]

Pasch: do you have a read on Marcell?

[farside22]

The last several pages have read like pure bickering...

Cooldog is towning it up, though. He's trying to cut through the bullshit, and props to him for doing it. And Baezu is working her way onto the scumpile. So is Thor. I can't usually tell his town bluster from his scum bluster, but it seems to have less purpose. I expect Jiffy to just poke things with sharp sticks. Thor is usually more precise than this. Focused aggression is towny, unfocused aggression is not.

Still prefer Pants or Farside, though.

Peedit: And some real content from Viking Cat. I'd prefer that, too.

Can you explain why baezu is leaning scum then?

From what I see people didn't like her lack of comments.

[farside22]

Cooldog: I noted your comment. I will look at thor tomorrow.

[farside22]

By the way RL tomorrow.
I've had a shit morning.

[farside22]

Could everyone please lay out their current reads? I think too many people are getting caught up in minutia. Jiffy, top 3 scum. Farside - same. If we all agree that marcrell is super scum, great.

But there's got to be other people that are being scummy for non-fabricated reasons.

Who are those people? I'm still not convinced dr pants is town soy reads list is still accurate up until this point

The bolded portion sounds strange to me. It implies that the people who are scum in this posts have fabricated reasons, implying that the reads are made up. I was unsure, but looking over this post has me leaning a bit more towards Baezu scum. I won't vote though until I see an explanation. Perhaps there's something explaining this.
And I have returned. I tried to use something more recent, but a lot of it was back and forth between people that I found hard to take an opinion on, so I have given this.
Also seeing a point from Thor now. I did expect questions from the content pants read, not the content he predicted to read.

why have we not lynched this guy yet?

Idk, but I need a reread of this game.
I just need 24 hours.

[farside22]

@baezu:
My question is in regards to the post here.

Reads list:

Anatole- town. I like your response to people. Just to let you know my town game is scummy. I've tried hydraing to try to fix it and was even given advice like "you can be unpredictable and crazy as fuck as town" but it still hasn't seemed to help. The only thing that "works" for me as town is to stick to my meta and hope people will eventually catch on that I'm scum as fuck as town

Cooldog- most town imo

Dr pants- sorry man. After reading your ISO you still seem scummy to me. You're making a case on jif based on nothing and yet accuse me of the same thing. I don't even like your 206. It just makes you seem like you're fishing for town cred later on

Farside- town meta is town

Majiffy- when I said he was relaxed this is what I meant: 48. IMO whoever thinks majiffy is scum is themselves scum and is just trying to get him out of the game. Read his posts. He's town as fuck 105108

Marcrell- scum. Too much explanation in too scummy of a way. See 236

Messiah- scum, see above. First vote is for majiffy and I already had a problem with his initial post. Also, how come you didn't address me at all in that post and then put me in the scum pile? I was a topic of conversation that you completely ignored but then sided with the majority on.

Pasch- town

Shiryu- town read 150 it's pretty clear

Thor- town

VC- town

Why not- null atm but if there are only 3 scum by Poe he must be town.

;tl/dr messiah, marcrell, pants scum; why not null; rest town

You state a town read in majiffy and say anyone scum reading him is trying to get him out if the game. However both myself and thor stated either suspicion or a scum read on jiffy and we are town reads. Can you expand on why, since your main issue on messiah is his out of the gate scum read on jiffy.

[farside22]

I'm half way done, will finish tomorrow.
Because I have a tunnel issue that lead me sometimes right and sometimes wrong, I'm going to skip over majiffy for the rest of day 1.

[farside22]

Messiah:
You stated one issue with Anatole that you wonder is a trust tell and listed as scum, nothing on baezu. What is the difference between your scum reads and null scum?
Was baezu scum in the game you referenced in post 360?
Just an FYI I have selective reading issues. My eyes glaze over things especially in long post. I didn't read everything you wrote, I was bother you quoted something pants did as well and found it scummy.
Why are you defending thor in post 500?

[farside22]

hard defense of thor. If when thor flips scum we lynch this mother fucker next.

I'm not pursuing the fallacy fallacy. But DrPants's case against Thor is like extremely clearly terrible.

What did you think of thor's case against dr. Pants?

[farside22]

Okay cooldog I read thor, he had tunneled on pants, however he also has attacked majiffy multiple times in the game as a clear suspect. I'm not sure exactly why pants defense was still a scum read after the pants explanation or the need to hold onto it.

Thor: I saw mention of jiffy and pants scum read did I miss anyone else as a scum read from you?

[farside22]

Okay so I finished all but jiffy.

My scum reads look like this:

Marcell, messiah and jiffy (so far as I recall this won't change and from what I read from others I'm not off my rocker)

Null on shir and baezu.

[farside22]

I think that DrPants is probably just messy town and will now return to the Baezu wagon I started.

vote Baezu

See, this is mainly the reason I had originally thought Pants may end up flipping town, despite his terribad defense. The back and forth he and Thor have had throuought the game makes me think at least one of the two may be town, if not both of them. I suppose they could both be scum, trying to put distance between them, but that'd be a hell of a well orchestrated play if it's the case.

On the other hand, based on their latest posts, I could definitely see Marcrell and Baezu being scum buddies. I'd be perfectly fine changing my vote to either of them if that's the wagon we decide on. Or we could also go for Messiah. Haven't changed my mind about him.

Why Not and Pasch, perhaps you could refresh us on why your vote still stands on Baezu?

Anatole, viking cat and farside, same for you and your vote on Marcrell?

Why is Marcell a bad vote.
He literally done nothing this game. Has come in with a weak scum read on baezu.

[farside22]

No offense to baezu but even the worst scum player could make baezu look scummy.
She's only null because despite her bad play in the game I refer to with her, she pushed hard. The defeatist attitude is a bit of a shock to me.

[farside22]

Marcell, messiah and jiffy (so far as I recall this won't change and from what I read from others I'm not off my rocker)

You should help me bus my buddy Messiah.

Sure like thor is scum and I'm scum and hey look it's omgus time.

It's times like this I wish I could refer to ongoing games.

[farside22]

There is not much refresher to Marcell since he's not posting.
Maybe ask jiffy why it's a shit wagon or if he for some reason is town read Marcell?

[farside22]

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

Also if you read the ISO from Marcell would some point to where Marcell agreed with thor or said anything about thor or the case before this?
here it is

[farside22]

Marcell, messiah and jiffy (so far as I recall this won't change and from what I read from others I'm not off my rocker)

You should help me bus my buddy Messiah.

Sure like thor is scum and I'm scum and hey look it's omgus time.

It's times like this I wish I could refer to ongoing games.

I'm not scumreading Thor.

Why are you unwilling to vote your stated scumreads?

I am voting one of my stated scum reads, but please go on lying.
Why is Macrell a shit wagon with shit reasons?

[farside22]

Messiah Complex

: (2)

Majiffy, Shiryu

Majiffy

: (2)

Messiah Complex

,

Thor665

Thor665

: (2)

Dr Pants

,

CooLDoG

Marcrell

: (4)

Anatole Kuragin

,

viking cat

,

farside22

,

Baezu

Baezu

: (3)

Paschendale

,

Why not

,

Marcrell

You can thank me later.

Oh look sudden scum list and 3 out of 4 find jiffy scum.
Coincedence? I think not.

[farside22]

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

This pretty much clinches it for me

VOTE: marcrell

Ah the magic of OMGUS.

Messiah- unfortunately for me, only my town games are scummy. I haven't been scum much but I've won most of my scum games and been lynched d1 in most of my town games. In my scum games no one thinks I'm scummy. I don't act scummy, I'm not accused of being scummy and I usually can coast to a win. So if you feel I'm being scummy this game you can be sure it's because I'm town. If I were scum right now, I'd be drawing way less attention to myself and being way more subversive

This post really throws up some red flags. It basically frees you from all scummy behavior. VOTE: Baezu Maybe it's true, but the addition of how he only looks town when he's scum seals it.
Also inclined to say Pants is probably scum, considering I like what Thor has been saying and town read him, but not enough to drop off of this for now.

Also if you read the ISO from Marcell would some point to where Marcell agreed with thor or said anything about thor or the case before this?
here it is

So I didn't mention him before. Mentioning him now is scummy? Are players limited to their first couple of reactions in a game, and they have to stand with them forever?

You agree with thor for no noted reason. It reads as buddying, especially this late in the game with a piss poor attempt to look like you scum hunting.

[farside22]

I am voting one of my stated scum reads, but please go on lying.
Why is Macrell a shit wagon with shit reasons?

Because Marcrell is town and none of the stated reasons hold any weight.

Oh look sudden scum list and 3 out of 4 find jiffy scum.
Coincedence? I think not.

Yeah it's tough when your whole team has to gang up to get me out of the game early, innit?

Wow.
Way to explain nothing.

[farside22]

Anatole: looked through your iso, why is messiah a scum read?

[farside22]

VOTE: Messiah

Best case if the game.

Here jiffy I'm helping you bus your scum buddy because someone made a case that wasn't nothing.

[farside22]

Case was pretty derp but what do you expect from bussing buddies?

Yes.

Anatole is thrown into the scumreads because the ISO left me feeling incredibly null and that's problematic 22 pages in with plenty of content to work with.

so I'm scum because I'm null? I thought this was AMERICA what happened to innocent until proven guilty!?

It's pretty damning that your ISO leaves me feeling null at 22 pages.

If you're serious then you're kinda bad at mafia

Jiffy's not bad at this game, just scum.
He wants to bus his buddy let him. My wagon of choice is roe but a fighter jet works too.

[farside22]

I'm starting to see you point about jif scum, farside

Yup the filter that jiffy puts in this game is how dare you act like null, you must be scum to let's talk meta for pages.
Active but is it scummy points he's making?
No.

[farside22]

I'm starting to see you point about jif scum, farside

jiffy is just arguing with people and calling it content.

edit, forgot to post this too.

Pretty sure I said the same thing. ;/

Is jiffy still a scum read?

[farside22]

Hey messiah.

The point Anatole had were valid.
Our reads are the same with jiffy but pants felt the same and then thor and no one really voted till way later.
I thought people were sheeping me for buddying purposes.

Vote; jiffy

[farside22]

In light of the claim, I'm not moving my vote.

Our you counter claiming? Yes I'm asking because if you say nothing day fucking 1 about and live to day 2 saying oh I wasn't cc'ing that claim I'd vote you till you were dead.

[farside22]

You can lynch me, but you'd better as hell sheep my reads when I flip town.

I thought I was a scum read.

I swear.

[farside22]

no, I am implying that messiah had a scummier response to farside's sheeping. tbh I need to ISO farside, especially after this

When your done with explain the town read on jiffy please.

[farside22]

Messiah: I'm still looking for a response to my questions.

Messiah:
You stated one issue with Anatole that you wonder is a trust tell and listed as scum, nothing on baezu. What is the difference between your scum reads and null scum?
Was baezu scum in the game you referenced in post 360?
Just an FYI I have selective reading issues. My eyes glaze over things especially in long post. I didn't read everything you wrote, I was bother you quoted something pants did as well and found it scummy.
Why are you defending thor in post 500?

[farside22]

Have you had a look at farsides ISO?
What do you think of #369 & #370 in particular? I contemplate voting her.

Because I forgot about a player that isn't around or because I had to remind myself about said player?

I tunnel it's pretty bad for me and I get lost when I tunnel.

[farside22]

Oh and I get lost when I don't tunnel. Awful ADD.

[farside22]

Have you had a look at farsides ISO?
What do you think of #369 & #370 in particular? I contemplate voting her.

Because I forgot about a player that isn't around or because I had to remind myself about said player?

I tunnel it's pretty bad for me and I get lost when I tunnel.

I asked you why you voted Messiah back when he had 0 votes while the other prefered suspect of you had already 2. At the point of my question the Messiah wagon was already bigger than the Marcrell wagon though, still you instantly changed your vote. That didn't seem like a natural reaction to me.

Not sure why, but I can explain my thought process at the time,

Messiah vote and reasoning bothered me, felt like sheeping and the reads/reasoning did not make sense with the scum list.
When you asked me about Marcell I was like oh yea let me look,
Then I remember what was scummy about him so I voted. Pretty much my vote is for those I find scummy.
And if I town read a player I will lean towards those peoples views more because how shitty my reads were from Austin powers mafia. Just recently ended, but if my scum reads match others I don't feel weak/wrong voting for that player.

The short:
Big ego will jump on a player and make a case, ego smashed thinks maybe I'm wrong.

[farside22]

I've read over Messiahs claim. My gut says it looks okay. Not liking the idea of lynching a claim before we have counter evidence. I have been looking at farsides reaction and it feels like she was prepared for that and instantly had a new target which caught my suspicion. baezu is sheeping around like crazy, meh, hard to read her role in this. Slightly leaning town on Shiryu, probably for good effort.
I am kind of leaning town on Majiffy. This whole thing is looking extremely bad on him and he could have expected that outcome so...

Yes I so have not been scum reading jiffy all game.
Oh hold on let me keep a vote on a claimed doc because that's the town thing to do right ?

God I want to (&@$$'khbnjyrfb)

[farside22]

Pants, Shiryu is town. Stop.

I sooooo believe that scum read you have on pants.
Wait no I don't.

[farside22]

Meh. I kind of expected an unvote, farside. I know you have been scumreading Majiffy for some time. Why do you sheep him then?

I didn't sheep jiffy.

[farside22]

The next person to state a lie again I will vote for, no questions asked.

[farside22]

Farside is good at this game.

COME AT ME BRO

Looks at vote count
Looks at jiffy's post thus far

Don't think much more needs to be said.

[farside22]

Yeah I've 'bout got this game in the bag, I know.

It's tough being on the other end of me. Don't be too hard on yourself.

You have a scum buddy ready to defend you in your back pocket?

[farside22]

Meh. I kind of expected an unvote, farside. I know you have been scumreading Majiffy for some time. Why do you sheep him then?

I didn't sheep jiffy.

Well you joined in on the wagon he was rallying people for though
No paranoia he could have been luring you into a mislynch?

I vote messiah because if anatole's case.
Did you miss that post? Or my questions. Or my suspicion of messiah which is deprecate from jiffy.

No paranoia, I see scum bussing so much lately it's not even funny.

[farside22]

Deprecate should be independent

[farside22]

Viking cat: do you even realize jiffy vote messiah after me with my first vote on messiah and is town reading Marcell. If you have a scum read on a player. Especially one that posted so little, that a town read could even be warranted?

[farside22]

Recent Majiffy self-vote could have been easily done in an attempt to confuse us. I have been liking his play, but I could see myself hammering. Messiah could be the doc. Him being pissed seems consistent with doc claims I've seen in the past.

Why is this a town post jiffy?

[farside22]

Its not explicitly a scum post. And marcrell looks town. Soooo.

I'm so going to lurk and make wishy washy comments and talk about hammering a town read in my next game.

That apparently is a town tell these days.

[farside22]

Oh wait,sorry null to town read.
No please keep pushing that lynch on me jiffy.
Do you have a fake well I was wrong scum speech?

[farside22]

@vc: I'm still waitng for response to my questions and comment I made here

Meh. I kind of expected an unvote, farside. I know you have been scumreading Majiffy for some time. Why do you sheep him then?

I didn't sheep jiffy.

Well you joined in on the wagon he was rallying people for though
No paranoia he could have been luring you into a mislynch?

I vote messiah because if anatole's case.
Did you miss that post? Or my questions. Or my suspicion of messiah which is deprecate from jiffy.

No paranoia, I see scum bussing so much lately it's not even funny.

[farside22]

@vc: this one too.

Viking cat: do you even realize jiffy vote messiah after me with my first vote on messiah and is town reading Marcell. If you have a scum read on a player. Especially one that posted so little, that a town read could even be warranted?

[farside22]

You know I thought I was going crazy when I saw smurf instead of shit. Like my phone did auto correct.

[farside22]

I'm amazed you've played with me as often as you have and just noticed this habit.

The last game I recall playing with you was a large I believe superhero mafia game.
I have this I vaguely recall games with names but it's never clear.

Any who.

I sort have this is jiffy defending vi for town cred thing in my head currently.
Pants attack on shir came a bit out of the blue.

[farside22]

Based on what I remember with thor, will not vote pants. Anyone who thinks that is scum bussing should explain why.
Looking more at Marcell and baezu.
Currently still looking for messiah to answer some questions I had.

[farside22]

Thor665, who was Oswald Boelcke, a [/color]

German Propagandist

of German allegiance was shot down over German lines on 11 April, 1917[/b]

VOTE: Why Not

?????

[farside22]

Baezu: you think cooldog pushing on thor was scum bussing, especially read thor's reaction?
Why?

I noted no interaction with Marcell, the weird comment from messiah still bugs me. He listed thor as null scum, then defends thor then list him as town. Does not help when you have 2 heads and neither sign there post.
Why is shir scum with thor based on interaction?

[farside22]

thor is an experienced player
it's incredibly risky to rely on his iso to reliably hint at lynch targets

Did you think the case on pants had merit?

[farside22]

I have one of those maybe dumb questions for people.
Are you the type to look for scum on your wagon?
I kind of have a reason for this question.

[farside22]

VOTE: Baezu

[farside22]

^ not a vote on Why Not, so not a vote on scum. for shame.

She avoided questions I asked and my gut says why not is town.

Why do you town read baezu? She had jiffy as town and calling messiah scum for finding jiffy town but thor and I were town.
She also attacked shir and quickly dropped it.

[farside22]

My gut also still doesn't fully trust messiah. I feel like I'm playing the stop and wait game with that duo when it comes to posting in this game.

[farside22]

Mmmmn donuts.
Homer Simpson moment.

[farside22]

tha fuck is a donut vendor

From what I gathered sends donut with note.
A few vendors I've seen (1) was Harry potter mafia that did nothing (2) Star Wars had a vendor that targets a player and the player is told they feel a disturbance in the force.

[farside22]

Alright, so based on that little bit of donut interaction, either Pants and Why Not are both Mafia, or both town, yes? And as I'm (we're?) almost possitive Pants is town, then I have to assume Why Not is too. And you had made such a convincing argument too, Pants.

UNVOTE: Why Not

I have one of those maybe dumb questions for people.
Are you the type to look for scum on your wagon?
I kind of have a reason for this question.

I totally meant to answer this earlier. Do you mean a wagon on myself? If so, it really just depends on their reason for each vote. So, for example, that wagon on me at the start of the game, I found Marcrell's reason to be the most suspicious at the time. Unless you meant a wagon that I've started? Because if that was the question, then I don't recall ever actually starting one. But yeah, if I did, I suppose that's something I'd be looking out for.

So looking at you Baezu. As I think I already mentioned it, I feel like you're reason for voting me was really weak. And still not feeling your presence all that much in this game. Other suspects would still be Messiah, and Marcrell. But mostly you at this point.

And farside, I'll starting to consider you a definite scum possibility. Still not getting scummy vibes from you, but I can't ignore how you and Majiffy were the other big argument I noticed from back then. And out of that one, he ended up being town. I mean it's just gut feeling, since I'm perfectly aware you two could have just been two bickering townies. But still. I'll be watching you.

Your post really come off as fence sitting , often.

[farside22]

Just finished catching up and I'm happy with my current vote.

[farside22]

I keep coming back to Baezu and Marcrell but I have a feeling Marcrell is probably lynchbait.

Also a little more skeptical of Farside than I was.

Meh I feel bad about jiffy so I'm taking a step back and trying to read people better.
But I was also reading why not as town day 1 so it's hard for me to be swayed with one thing that he said and then switched. The rest I just felt my self disagreeing with others views.

Currently just feel like posting my questions to baezu till she responds.

[farside22]

@baezu:

Baezu: you think cooldog pushing on thor was scum bussing, especially read thor's reaction?
Why?

I noted no interaction with Marcell, the weird comment from messiah still bugs me. He listed thor as null scum, then defends thor then list him as town. Does not help when you have 2 heads and neither sign there post.
Why is shir scum with thor based on interaction?

[farside22]

I'm close to cold day in hell before I stop voting baezu now.

[farside22]

As far as the info goes, the only thing I find helpful is if it told him who scum is. Other then that or a hunt of who scum is I could care less what the info was on the donut.

[farside22]

Hint not hunt.

[farside22]

Farside, if I'm scum, who is my partner?

Marcell or messiah.

[farside22]

I'll get back to messiah later.

[farside22]

@messiah

1. What are you considering a trust tell? Baezu had barely posted at that point, and I felt like I had more glaring pings from other people at the time. Scum reads are scum reads, null scum means that I am leaning towards them being scum, is this a legit question or are you asking about the people themselves?
2. No, Baezu was town in that game, as was I. We ended up in a TvT battle for far too long.
3. What were you bothered about wrt a post about Pants?
4. I don’t feel like I was defending Thor as much as pointing out faulty reasoning in other players.

1. You mentioned Anatole as scum due to trust tells so I don't know. Also why does baezu barely posting =scum?
2. What makes barzu scum this game vs the other game?
3. You and pants both quoted the same post from jiffy as an issue.
4. Why did your reads on thor change?

[farside22]

^^and this is what makes you cool, cooldog!

The only question I have is why messiah wasn't killed n1 if he is actual doc.

He's either scum, scum don't believe the claim, or scum are trying to get us to lynch our doc.
And Baezu, why is far side conftown?

Actually marcrell I'm starting to doubt that farside is town considering her post stating that nothing can change her mind about voting me. That's not a very town attitude

Did you do something worth changing my mind? You are inconsistant in more ways then one. Although I don't think highly of you, your one pro move you did was push a read and go a little nutty.
This game. Thor's a town read for no reason. He's shot and instead of confusion that I would associate with someone who had a town read on a player, your glad thor is dead.
You go back and look at interaction and the reason cool is on there is for town credit to bus scum....seriously?! Then shir is on there because????
Next you ask about the doc being alive like wow that fucking question hasn't been asked already.
You are not an absent minded idiot. Your reasoning is basically theory and in short not scum hunting at all.

Let me know why I should change my views.

[farside22]

Well I officially need a reread after that claim

Unvote

[farside22]

Mod: V/la this weekend

[farside22]

VOTE: Baezu

My gut also still doesn't fully trust messiah. I feel like I'm playing the stop and wait game with that duo when it comes to posting in this game.

Just finished catching up and I'm happy with my current vote.

Farside, if I'm scum, who is my partner?

Marcell or messiah.

this is the series of posts that bother me. Votes baezu with the rest of us. Puts self into position to hop. Is happy with the current vote, but two other people are scummy too, one of which is a confirmable doc role.

Doc is confirmable only if he saves a player. He stated he protected you and had vc as his top town read. It's strange he did that. Now if I missed where someone said they saw him do as he claimed the role is only confirmable with an actual protection/track or flip.

I'm not voting Macrell right after because I second guess myself on him many times.
I had in Austin powers mafia a player that barely posted and flipped town.
After the discussion between pants and why not (both whom I town read and see no reason why they would fake that) I unvoted and felt I should reread the game.

[farside22]

Well that and a mafia doc is not outside possiblity with a vig in the game.

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post.

I'll work on the read Sunday mostly.
In case people get lynch happy while I'm away ill just post my notes I have.


Town:
Why not
Pants
Baezu (do to discussion day 2)
Anatole

Ignore: pashe (I have him in ignore do to the amount if hypocrisy I noticed in his posting when I read day 1. I can't stand players like that and it brings me close to rage mode)

Null:
Shir
Cooldog

Scum:
Macrell
Messiah

This is all with recent stuff but not with reread.

[farside22]

Last post till I get everything dealt Eleuthera.

Messiah

VC and CD were pretty much on the same level with me. I figured that scum would go for what they thought my top read was and protected what looked like my second highest read. I tried to out think scum and failed.

This makes no sense. If scum saw your list and thought this way they would have shot you instead I'd doing 50/50

1. I looked back for what you are talking about and can't find it, mind finding what you are talking about? Baezu barely posting leans scum for me because as town he wasn't afraid to put himself out there and get into shit arguments with people over nothing. I feel like he's been more reserved and tempered here.
2. see the ass end of 1.
3. Ok?
4. When did my read on Thor change? I had him as nullscum in my first reads list, and he solidified that spot in my second reads list.

1. Anatole you listed as scum and mentioned the French thing.
2. Ok
3. You asked.
4. I see now the second list had thor under town and it confused me.
Why is how thor acted in a game as scum make you wary and have a scum lean on him?
Have you played him him when he is town?

[farside22]

It's more then 1 isolated incident. Harry potter mafia bad play by 3 lurkers. Event mafia there was 2 I can think of that were town lurkers and 1 scum. I'd rather check the type of player Marcell is and go from there then assume scum/town based on play and I'd rather reread. You want to vote me for that, don't care.
Also cool things you don't account for besides a possible rb.
There is no doc in the game. Scum didn't kill messiah and he thinks the scum psychically knew which way he'd pick instead of killing him.
Finally I'm not "pushing the lynch" I'm just not saying omg he's so town due to claim like you are.

[farside22]

Also at cool I'd like to know why my comments bug you this much, when you've stated the following things:

Cooldog
There are no such thing as "I told you so" town points.

Exactly, and that is why you should have known better not to do it this game.

I noted no interaction with Marcell, the weird comment from messiah still bugs me. He listed thor as null scum, then defends thor then list him as town.

Yeah, Marcell and messiah still bug me. Still think why not is the way to go though. I would be down for a marcell wagon though. Also we NEED to hear from messiah. And why the hell isn't he dead. <---- needs to be talked about.

^ keeping in mind we lynch baezu after why not.

Messiah is still yet to be resolved. I am still unsure.

Sigh hate work, back to it.

[farside22]

Macrell: do you have a game you were scum?
I did a quick search and found none.

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post.

I'll work on the read Sunday mostly.
In case people get lynch happy while I'm away ill just post my notes I have.


Town:
Why not
Pants
Baezu (do to discussion day 2)
Anatole

Ignore: pashe (I have him in ignore do to the amount if hypocrisy I noticed in his posting when I read day 1. I can't stand players like that and it brings me close to rage mode)

Null:
Shir
Cooldog

Scum:
Macrell
Messiah

This is all with recent stuff but not with reread.

Sooooooo how has nobody noticed the major problem with your reads list?

You moved Baezu to town due to claims, but MC is a scum read.

Seems inconsistent

Doc claim has yet to be proven. Just saying.

yeah why again are we doing a Marcell wagon?

I like Farside, Pache or Shiryu much better

Because I'm not scum!
Pasch is one of those I can't read without raging. I'd lynch him more just because his actions are so hypocritical.
Shir....I don't see why one thing = scum. It's like the why not wagon. Lots of people voted do to his question and that was what it came to.
Why is Marcell a bad wagon? I looked at his town meta and he's not even close to the same level. I'd vote him knowing that but he is at l-1.


Marcell: intent to hammer. Please claim!

[farside22]

That's fine - but the point is, how do we know the next target is town? If why not dies, someone comes forward and says they got a message from why not, and gives us bullshit about how x scum player is town, and they ride that shit to LyLo if the role is never questioned because it's "antitown" to ask basic fucking questions.

Well thought process of trying to get past out guessing mod.

Let's say Macrell is scum (would not surprise me) then why not could target baezu (confirmed town) pant again or I'd say you. There are 3 options that people can say well why x to, then they better have someone other then themselves to exchange with.

If let's Macrell is town (shudders at thought) then it's POE for what why thinks he should do based on players action but I'd probably say not pants again because you will get those stupid paranoid people that will say why should we trust you two could both be scum wah bs stuff.

The only thing you can't take into consideration is an rb or some other scum role out there unknown.

[farside22]

^ but if why not has a known target or pool of targets that we suspect to be town, then we'd know if scum has an RB cause no one would get a message

Unless I missed something with why not 's role nothing stops that from happening if that exists.

[farside22]

I'm just doing side by side comparison of Marcell finished games and this game.

If like to see a full read this with reasons from him.

Today for example is where he just feels like he's blending in and I have no clue why he's scum reading anyone.

Compared to this just finished game
I noted he got prided but he was more verbose.


Ebwop

Hey I miscounted!

vote: Macrell

[farside22]

This was for my amusement and part why I ignore pasch in general:

This post

Pasch is one of those I can't read without raging. I'd lynch him more just because his actions are so hypocritical.

Yummy buzzwords! Hypocritical, in this case, means "calling you out on your anti-town actions."

And I had to go through many different post to see what pasch supposedly called out.

nope! not gonna happen

if I wait to say it until its necessary then we'll have more information we can get out of it

Pache, stop lurking. It makes you look scummy

There's just so much bickering going on that I'm having trouble keeping up. I know people want to lynch Marcrell. I've been asking why for 20 pages and no one will produce a satisfying answer. Thor's flip makes it unlikely that we're going to lynch you. Baezu and Farside are still great choices for lynches. Why Not needs to lay their damn cards on the table. Other than that, it's basically just a lot of noise.

Wow, all of this role nonsense got us nowhere, and I was right from the start in thinking that Why Not is town. I'm still all for lynching Baezu.

Pasch: do you have a read on Marcell?

He's lurky, but for a busy game that's only a few days old, I'm very reluctant to vote people for what they aren't doing, rather than what they are.

you think the person driving the wagon is scummy. Explain please.

We usually argue over attitude, but that's not happening here. It usually looks, to me, like he's just hammering relentlessly on someone who hasn't really warranted such actions. I'm not seeing that here. That makes me suspicious.

Could everyone please lay out their current reads? I think too many people are getting caught up in minutia. Jiffy, top 3 scum. Farside - same. If we all agree that marcrell is super scum, great. But there's got to be other people that are being scummy for non-fabricated reasons. Who are those people? I'm still not convinced dr pants is town soy reads list is still accurate up until this point

I'd really love to see some solid cases on Marcrell. The most I've seen so far boils down essentially to being lurky. It's not very compelling, nor is that idea that there is nothing sufficiently scummy in the more active players.

Marcrell is also right up there on my scum radar. Ultimately I'd say he was still the worst on the me wagon, and I don't think his response to it was all that solid. And of course now I would add the overall lack of presence in the game. At least Messiah's throwing in some pretty detailed posts when he reports in.

Why was it so bad? Is that your only reason? No one else looks scummier than that?

Also considering Baezu as possible scum candidate. Why Not was right, 201 is just shifty looking, and despite her lates posts, is just something that really jumped out at me while going over the game again.

Agreed.

Could everyone please lay out their current reads? I think too many people are getting caught up in minutia. Jiffy, top 3 scum. Farside - same. If we all agree that marcrell is super scum, great. But there's got to be other people that are being scummy for non-fabricated reasons. Who are those people? I'm still not convinced dr pants is town soy reads list is still accurate up until this point

Messiah
Farside
???

This is useful.

My top three are Baezu, Farside, and Pants.

The last several pages have read like pure bickering...

Cooldog is towning it up, though. He's trying to cut through the bullshit, and props to him for doing it. And Baezu is working her way onto the scumpile. So is Thor. I can't usually tell his town bluster from his scum bluster, but it seems to have less purpose. I expect Jiffy to just poke things with sharp sticks. Thor is usually more precise than this. Focused aggression is towny, unfocused aggression is not.

Still prefer Pants or Farside, though.

Peedit: And some real content from Viking Cat. I'd prefer that, too.

Farside's characterization of my actions are a big part of it. Misunderstanding or misrepresenting Majiffy's take on it in an attempt to create suspicion of me. Attempting to rely on a color-by-numbers approach with the whole "how is one player explaining a lot town and another scum" bit, rather than actually analyzing the differences. I don't think she's stupid, so why be so dense? Pants was establishing how I'm often lynchbait on day 1, so perhaps Farside was attempting to take advantage of that for a uncontroversial day 1 mislynch. In 109 it looks like she's arguing that we shouldn't be analyzing content at all and should just be voting on gut feeling or looking for tells all the time. She also thinks that being 4th on a wagon is apparently suspect. She's also very defensive against Majiffy, despite him not voting for her or pursuing her. And above, he explicitly doesn't think she's scum. Her votes on Pants and Majiffy are unfounded. Are they just gut? Are they jokes? Are they bullshit? I return to my original accusation of Shiryu, of distancing oneself from the consequences of one's vote. As I said before, scum worry about how their votes will look after the wagons they push flip town.

And all I gathered he!s holding onto one point and it hasn't moved onto anything else for any other reason.


@pants: is it normal for pasche to hold onto a scum read like that for such a weak reason?

[farside22]

Oh and one post I quoted he was talking about Macrell. Just something that caught my attention while looking

[farside22]

tbh, his play right now doesn't fit either his town meta or his scum meta based on games I've played with him. So I'm not really using meta on him this game, I just think that his positions have been useless/bad and he's been lurky. Both those make me read scum on him.

Oh god.
I was hoping for something definite. That was just one example I had of his play that had me wanting to tear my hair out and start ranting.
I mean I don't get why baezu is a scum read over Macrell based on game play. I mean if you never played with either wouldn't you scum read them equally?
.......

Baezu: have you played with pasche?

[farside22]

Well that's really confusing.

I may take pasche off my ignore list.

[farside22]

Shir: I'm disagreeing that why not should discuss his target. I think of worst case scenario with scum ablities and I have I issue with why not selecting a target without telling anyone today.

[farside22]

Well you haven't done anything else since then. You just follow along when Pants or other active players are taking the lead. You haven't contributed anything to scumhunting and mostly just whined about me when you aren't nodding vigorously to what townier players are saying.

Let's see after you omgus case, I fought with jiffy and asked questions. Today I did not vot why not , so I didn't follow fucking anyone there and vote baezu, again not following pants.
What have you done not list scum reads and not explain jack fucking shit on them.

The rest of people's post can wait till I'm back.

[farside22]

however, i do agree with your thoughts on marcell and farside

are you willing to mass claim?

Lurking, while posting little to nothing in game and is okay to post elsewhere is town?
No please explain this to me.
I'd like to lurk, provide no case after some shows meta that I'm not like that and be called town.

As for mass claim....I know I was back up mod for bal's last game but I do not recall how many pr 's there were.
So far, vig and a cop that sends info has claimed? If I missed something I'm sorry. I don't think mass claim is good idea.

Despite your clearing from Thor's flip, there isn't even a lot of pro-town content from you

k

I sincerely hope that Why Not investigates you tonight.

Or we could just lynch you now

Kill your detractors. Clearly pro-town. You don't care about finding the right people, just wanna get rid of the people who don't buy your crap. This is part of the "even if you have PR and flip reasons to make you look like town, none of your actual posts do".

I have no objection to a massclaim.

I missed that willing to lynch/scum read you had on pants day 2.
Is there a reason for the attitude?

[farside22]

however, i do agree with your thoughts on marcell and farside

are you willing to mass claim?

Lurking, while posting little to nothing in game and is okay to post elsewhere is town?
No please explain this to me.
I'd like to lurk, provide no case after some shows meta that I'm not like that and be called town.

I have a couple of problems with a Marcell lynch.

1) no one has a town read on him. Universal scum reads are more often than not bad townies
2) with scum already on the Majiffy wagon, why would scum need to hammer?

Note that I could just be completely wrong about this, which is why I won't be too upset if we lynch Marcell. I'd just rather lynch Pasche at this point.

1) I wish. Sorry feeling pissy moment. There is bad town and there is lurking and making a case for shit reason's that has the smell of newb scum.
2) hammer is null. Seen it from both alignments.

Dude I'd vote pasch if I don't have to read or explain why I find him scum any further then I did. Seriously my rage would have no bounds with him.

[farside22]

I think mass claim helps scum more then town at this point. If the majority wants it that's fine with me.

[farside22]

have you ever thought that maybe you aren't as good at labeling town/scum behavior as you think you are

I'm better than some, not as good as others. Pretty everyone is always wrong about me, though. The more seriously I try to find and lynch scum, the more often I get called obviously scum. So, since I'm offered a chance to watch people be very very wrong almost every game, I'm very good at finding bad wagons.

My vote is still on Baezu mainly because I think there's definitely some bullshit on all this confirming, because Baezu's actual posts don't present a town image, and because there's no place I'd prefer to put it right now.

Well you haven't done anything else since then. You just follow along when Pants or other active players are taking the lead. You haven't contributed anything to scumhunting and mostly just whined about me when you aren't nodding vigorously to what townier players are saying.

Let's see after you omgus case, I fought with jiffy and asked questions. Today I did not vot why not , so I didn't follow fucking anyone there and vote baezu, again not following pants.
What have you done not list scum reads and not explain jack fucking shit on them.

The rest of people's post can wait till I'm back.

So yes, you complained and argued and didn't contribute, and then you followed other people's leads.

---------------------

Pretty much the only people I wouldn't lynch today are Why Not and Cooldog. This is because their posts are actually beneficial to town. Their points are genuine and their contributions sincere. All of this confirming stuff looks too convienient and is too vague and this is not a game where you win by trusting people. There is definitely scum in it somewhere.

Well that's fucking horseshit.
Please post the quote were I followed someone on a lynch that I did not already state a scum read on.

[farside22]

Dodging question noted.

[farside22]

@Shiryu: This plan sounds... iffy. It relies on Why Not's choice to give the information to not being scum. It relies on scum being predictable. Scum will be reading all of this and could just as easily leave Messiah alive in order to frame them. Messiah could be town and properly protect Why Not but scum could have a strongman kill or, as you say, a roleblocker. It seems like things could go tits up very easily, and the information it would yield seems unreliable. We could certainly do these things, but the information it yields sounds a lot less certain than some people seem to think.

I haven't been talking about this plan because I never got it in a concise manner and spent most of the last several pages thinking "bullshit!" at all of the people asking for unquestioning trust.

Dude I'd vote pasch if I don't have to read or explain why I find him scum any further then I did. Seriously my rage would have no bounds with him.

Grrr, Pasch is mean! But I don't have any actual scumreads so I'll push for the guy I can play up being angry at!

And proof this person isn't reading my post at all.

I've put a scum list together? What have you done today but bitch about trusting people and unexplained scum reads all while protecting a lurker who has not scum hunted once this game.
Fascinating.

[farside22]

Also, mod, don't we get to know more about Thor's role than that he was a propagandist?

I can't tell you any more than that

Vote Count 04/11/1917.08

(L-2)

Marcrell: (4) CooLDoG, Anatole Kuragin, Baezu, farside22
Shiryu: (1) Dr Pants
Baezu: (1) Paschendale

Not Voting: Marcrell, Messiah Complex, Shiryu, Why not

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-18 15:10:00)

Mod Notes:
Prodding Marcrell

[/area]

Oh look the player bitching is voting bazeu still with no reason today.

[farside22]

I've already emphasized a few times that we still need to scumhunt.

Someone slap me if I'm around day 3 for a crazy theory I had about this game.

[farside22]

I'm so lurking my next game and providing shit cases after this game is over.
I do. I can not understand the let's not lynch the scummy player.
The first person to say too scummy to be scum gets bitched slapped.

[farside22]

I've already emphasized a few times that we still need to scumhunt.

You keep claiming that all my scumreads are super special from your magical powers. I trust your honesty, but I don't think you have this right.

I mean, marcell lynch does not give us that much information to be honest. I completely understand the pasch wagon. He has literally contributed nothing to this game at all. He just comes in to antagonize people from time to time... I could go for his wagon. I am likeing farside a bit better as of latem and I don't think I want to lynch him today.

Except that I make good cases on who is scum and who is town. But aside from that, yeah, I don't do anyway. Oh wait, that's the most important thing to do! I may not have many new cases to make right now, but there's been virtually no resolution to my old ones, and the only things going on today are that my few genuine townreads are talking about PR powers and my scumreads are continuing to be scummy. What do you want me to do, make up cases without actually believing in them?

No you make omgus cases on town.

Or bitch to people that scum read you.

Yawn.

[farside22]

I'm not sure what pasche concern is. Is there a reason to be suspicious of every person? How many scum does he think is in this game? I mean last I looked this is a 13 player game and I haven't see a 4 or 5 player scum game with 13 players.

Here let's try a few questions.

Why not; are you informed of the results of your investigation?

[farside22]

Here let's try a few questions.

Why not; are you informed of the results of your investigation?

Farside, that is one question I don't believe we should be asking. If I'm not mistaken, it's that point exactly that got me into trouble before, since I had assumed Why Not did get this information and tried to push for him to confirm it, which he avoided answering. So Why Not probably doesn't get any info (and we've been going on the assumption that that's the case), but maybe he does. And if he does, it would be an extra weapon for us to use against scum. It's best to leave this unanswered.

If I was seen as scummy for trying to dig into this, then I don't see why you shouldn't. Consider this a point against you in my book.

You serious? You asked a question that you see is needed but your saying well I'm town and thought I should ask, but people called me scum so I'll call someone scum that asked a question too.

Wow I can't imagine this coming from anything resembling a reasonable person,

Let's use facts instead of stupid.
You repeatedly asked for info after the claim. I see people talking paranoid bs that does no fucking good today so I asked one question to stop the fucking paranoia.
Now tell me how what I did and you did repeatedly is the same?

[farside22]

Here let's try a few questions.

Why not; are you informed of the results of your investigation?

Farside, that is one question I don't believe we should be asking. If I'm not mistaken, it's that point exactly that got me into trouble before, since I had assumed Why Not did get this information and tried to push for him to confirm it, which he avoided answering. So Why Not probably doesn't get any info (and we've been going on the assumption that that's the case), but maybe he does. And if he does, it would be an extra weapon for us to use against scum. It's best to leave this unanswered.

If I was seen as scummy for trying to dig into this, then I don't see why you shouldn't. Consider this a point against you in my book.

You serious? You asked a question that you see is needed but your saying well I'm town and thought I should ask, but people called me scum so I'll call someone scum that asked a question too.

Wow I can't imagine this coming from anything resembling a reasonable person,

Let's use facts instead of stupid.
You repeatedly asked for info after the claim. I see people talking paranoid bs that does no fucking good today so I asked one question to stop the fucking paranoia.
Now tell me how what I did and you did repeatedly is the same?

I made a mistake and assumed Why Not did have the information. At the time I thought that'd be a good way to confirm that he was indeed pro-town. So yes, I repeatedly asked it since I wasn't getting an answer. It wasn't until later that I caught on on why this was a really, really bad line of questioning. I've already addressed this, I admit this was scummy on my part and won't fight back against anyone that claims it as such.

So to answer your question, yes what we've done is the same. I just asked it more times because I was stubborn.

Now I ask you, how does that question specifically stop the "paraonia"? It eliminates some scenarios, but not all of them.

People fight back if there is a reason for the question.
Did you think there was a good reason for the question?
Now let's look at what you asked.

Wait, so info he couldn't know? That may change things. I'd like to know the contents of said message now, if you feel it would be a good idea to reveal it.

He's kind got you there Pants.

So again, I don't care for the specifics of the role or what you actually discovered. Just give him the tiniest bit of info that he can use to confirm that you're on the same page and I'll be convinced to consider you both town.

You asked with the idea of two people scum together. I think I even read a theory of thor sending it and why not taking credit.

Now why this is possible is beyond me considering that pants voted why not and made a case, where a scum team playing others makes sense.
Please answer why you thought they could be scum after liking pants case please.

But to answer your question.

Let's say why not gets the info too, he sends it to play z (whoever) he can confirm the truth of the message if it's known to him.
Again I suggested that if Macrell isn't scum that why not pick someone to send to other then pants to keep the paranoia of pants/why not scum team. Or as I called it paraniod bs.
Now which paranoia besides possible GF could you have with the report?

[farside22]

I have an idea. But I've been in this rut keeping me from posting things of content.

You should probably not do that.

What do you want me to do, make up cases without actually believing in them?

I'd rather you do something helpful. You are in THIS situation, now, pasche. And if you have my win condition, you should be looking for the best thing that can possibly be done in THIS situation.

I'm probably going to confirm Pants tonight. I'd rather we be certain about the pool of confs we have now than ambitiously try to expand it further than necessary. We've got to get back into scumhunting mode, guys.

Well, I've been pushing Baezu and Farside for a while. Their actions haven't exactly changed since I started suspecting them. It's been more of the same. There are presumably two or three living scum. Those are my top two suspects. Farside for very defensive stances, not offering useful original content, and for following along so as not to arouse suspicion. 229 is a good summation of my case against her. Baezu, meanwhile, has had incredibly wishy washy reads, and has likewise followed along. But since the consensus of the town is to clear Baezu for now, I'll put her below my other read.

VOTE: Farside

You should join me here. This is very likely a scum lynch.

Lynch all liars.

Vote: pasch

I've made original content so that's a lie, asked for example of his points, he's dodged it and finally post 229 is nothing but omgus and therefore not a case.

[farside22]

VOTE: Pasche

Just so the mod see's it


You want to do 1 for 1 there pasche? Your nothing cases and lies against me calling you out for holding onto bs and bitching about the day so far?

[farside22]

And the question pasche keeps dodging are these;

have you ever thought that maybe you aren't as good at labeling town/scum behavior as you think you are

I'm better than some, not as good as others. Pretty everyone is always wrong about me, though. The more seriously I try to find and lynch scum, the more often I get called obviously scum. So, since I'm offered a chance to watch people be very very wrong almost every game, I'm very good at finding bad wagons.

My vote is still on Baezu mainly because I think there's definitely some bullshit on all this confirming, because Baezu's actual posts don't present a town image, and because there's no place I'd prefer to put it right now.

Well you haven't done anything else since then. You just follow along when Pants or other active players are taking the lead. You haven't contributed anything to scumhunting and mostly just whined about me when you aren't nodding vigorously to what townier players are saying.

Let's see after you omgus case, I fought with jiffy and asked questions. Today I did not vot why not , so I didn't follow fucking anyone there and vote baezu, again not following pants.
What have you done not list scum reads and not explain jack fucking shit on them.

The rest of people's post can wait till I'm back.

So yes, you complained and argued and didn't contribute, and then you followed other people's leads.

---------------------

Pretty much the only people I wouldn't lynch today are Why Not and Cooldog. This is because their posts are actually beneficial to town. Their points are genuine and their contributions sincere. All of this confirming stuff looks too convienient and is too vague and this is not a game where you win by trusting people. There is definitely scum in it somewhere.

Well that's fucking horseshit.
Please post the quote were I followed someone on a lynch that I did not already state a scum read on.

however, i do agree with your thoughts on marcell and farside

are you willing to mass claim?

Lurking, while posting little to nothing in game and is okay to post elsewhere is town?
No please explain this to me.
I'd like to lurk, provide no case after some shows meta that I'm not like that and be called town.

As for mass claim....I know I was back up mod for bal's last game but I do not recall how many pr 's there were.
So far, vig and a cop that sends info has claimed? If I missed something I'm sorry. I don't think mass claim is good idea.

Despite your clearing from Thor's flip, there isn't even a lot of pro-town content from you

k

I sincerely hope that Why Not investigates you tonight.

Or we could just lynch you now

Kill your detractors. Clearly pro-town. You don't care about finding the right people, just wanna get rid of the people who don't buy your crap. This is part of the "even if you have PR and flip reasons to make you look like town, none of your actual posts do".

I have no objection to a massclaim.

I missed that willing to lynch/scum read you had on pants day 2.
Is there a reason for the attitude?

[farside22]

i keep having these illusions that we can all get along but then i remember that in this thread we are all people trying to kill other people

If this is director towards me I will only appologies for calling people stupid. But I can not for the life of me understand why people keep bypassing Macrell or how people are okay with a omgus case from day 1 and a statement that is a lie.
If you want to explain those 2 things to me It would calm me down.
But until then I just feel like screaming at my computer.

[farside22]

And the question pasche keeps dodging are these;

I didn't really see that as a question. Maybe a rhetorical one, but allow me to answer with another question. Why do you think it doesn't count as following other people if you mention support of it before voting?

i keep having these illusions that we can all get along but then i remember that in this thread we are all people trying to kill other people

That does often make the blood run hot.

Wft are you talking about? Macrell? If that's all you have then you can explain how my points are unoriginal.
Or: researching meta, noting him posting in other games and my scum list has people that others did not so....?
So in short your taking one player that a few mention based on mostly one post most had issues with but I show various other reasons I find him scummy and I'm following.
No seriously that's your issue and why your lying right now?

[farside22]

Oh and I was the first fucking person to find jiffy scum. Was he town, yes. Does that make me a fucking follower no.
I also fucking voting messiah before anyone did. Did he claim doc, yes, can you sit there and say let's 100% believe it?
Fucking following.
Bullshit!

[farside22]

Pasche: are you town reading Macrell? If so why? If not why is being on his wagon scummy?

[farside22]

Not sure how bel works, but as a mod last standing scum can use kill and an ability.

I don't know if pasch was defending town or scum with Macrell.
Remember thor's attack in pants stemmed from pants attack on pasche.

[farside22]

I think waiting to see if someone got why not's message would help.
Obviously I got nothing.

Out of curiousity I recall something about a weak gf in this game, where did that theory come from?

[farside22]

Does anyone know about this war the game is based off of? I had a sort of theory/silly moment. Wondered if I was crazy.

[farside22]

by a lot i mean of course about as much as a college level intro history class

I suck with history.
This idea is that the Germans are scum? I was wondering if just German was the enemy. I went to wiki after rereading the first page and I got that the baron was German, so it stands to reason that it's just that group right?

I totally had a paranoid 2 scum group theory in my head yesterday.
Sometimes I get that.

[farside22]

I assume baezu you did not get a message?

[farside22]

I'm stuck between shiryu, messiah and maybe farside. I don't think marcrell is scum because of all the scums pushing his lynch. Messiah could be scum if he's not doc. Shiryu and farside are less likely. I'm going to let this day play out a bit before voting. I'll prob have a better picture of it the more I see from everyone.

Scum pushing his lynch?
Wft are you talking about?

[farside22]

The fact that Pasche was desperately trying to tell us that we couldn't assume our conf-town pool was correct also suggests that our conf-town pool is, in fact, correct

Agreed. I think bazeu is town, just don't get her thinking.

I'd like to hear from messiah but it seems down to POE.

Cool- 1 shot vig
Bazeu - checked out town
Macrell - checked out town.
Messiah - doc

[farside22]

My town read of those not checked are pants and Anatole.
I feel like something is missing but I don't know what and it could be me paraniod.
I want one last look at the game before a hammer.
Thanks.

[farside22]

Is having both a rolecop and a roleblocker on scum like stupid powerful? If they have a rolecop, wouldn't it make more sense to kill messiah and roleblock why not?

People suspect the doc, you keep him alive due to suspicion.
I tend to think with a vig in the game, doc makes sense. The mid's response about a possible 3rd party is what has me second guessing a few things.

[farside22]

I like post 1283.
That makes me feel less paranoid about the thoughts I had earlier.
I'd be mad at the mod if he made it mission impossible and looking at the list of roles already claimed and those investigated.
Mc actually should not be looked at and if shir isn't scum then ...
I guess me since I can't image Anatole or pants scum.
I was a bit paranoid about cooldog.

[farside22]

I'm used to people calling me he.
I've learned over the years mafia is mostly men.

[farside22]

One question why does scum in pant's line up have rb/vanillizer
Did I miss something?

[farside22]

This is my thought process that sounds weird.

I feel something is missing in this. Maybe it 's the ideal that nothing is black and white for me.
Shir's comment about a possible gf felt real to me. Sort of like how I feel. There is what we know and what we don't know and frankly I'm very much concerned things are not simple.
I'm almost tempted to ask people to lynch me since I'm curious to know if I'm over thinking the game.

My issue is those confirmed mostly are lying low and those unconfirmed read more town.

Sigh.

[farside22]

Now, another thought I've been having for some time now and which I'd rather say now before I get lynched: I don't believe CooLDoG to be scum. But if we do have a third party (eg a Serial Killer), I believe it would be considerably likely for it to be him. This is again, the paranoid side of me speaking, but I could see him making his first kill on Thor, using that to make himself not look scummy (which has worked), and then not killing for the following nights to back up his claime of one shot Vig. This would put him in a good spot to start killing again when the timing is right (though admitedly, it would make him a more likely NK target since he'd be more or less confirmed "innocent", making this not too likely).

So for now we shouldn't vote him and keep our focus on finding the remaining scum. If we're able to lynch them and the game doesn't end, than yeah, just stay open to this possibility. I bring it up now since I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by that point, asuming it happens.

Not laughing at your thought more like how my thought was more wondering f there was 2 scum groups vs town.

[farside22]

Pants: what is the message all about from why not?
Does it say town and then where the player is from?

[farside22]

No I think your telling the truth I was trying to understand what you and cool were talking about with that back and forth earlier.

[farside22]

Do you feel something is off pants?

[farside22]

I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of lynching the doc. With a vig in the game a doc or some protective role makes sense.
I feel like shir is I bit willing to vote anyone at this point just reading.
First it was me, then suspicion on Anatole and then the claims now the doc.
It doesn't feel like someone looking fore scum but going with making others look scummy at this point.
I'm going to go with me just being paranoid

Vote: shir

[farside22]

We can lynch Shiryu tomorrow. It looks to some degree like he is posturing to look innocent if MC flipped town by resisting the wagon.

tbh, i think i would rather lynch Farside over Shiryu

It could be that Shiryu is reviewing the game to find some way to make others look more scummy, but that seems unlikely. If it came down to lylo then a Shiryu lynch is probably a good bet but Farside is the one actually resisting the wagon. Shiryu said he would vote MC when he was done reading.

Why is resisting a wagon scummy?

See I thought everyone is being too easy with there votes.
Then I thought maybe there is another scum team.
But hey you want to lynch me because I don't want to lynch the claimed cop, which given your post not too long ago about set up, a doc makes sense.
It should be about me vs shir in the end.
I was just verifying for my own sanity there isn't something missing.

[farside22]

Cop should be doc by the way.

[farside22]

It's pretty fucking stupid to lynch the claimed doc given what we know. I don't give 2 fucking shits if he's useless as a third tit on me.

You have the following:

Am cop
1 shot vig
Town prog


Scum
Rb
Rc
Prog

That is serious power for the scum if you seriously think there is not a protective role looking at what we know your freeking high as a kite.

[farside22]

likely the last scum wouldnt be an RB in that scenario, which makes it more balanced

typically i'd agree with you. But, MC's thing where he added a medal to his role name is what changes my mind. Its a strange and completely unnecessary move from a town PR, but a scum PR could have added it in an attempt to legitimize a fake claim.

This is what the mc has to go through.
Dead play, dead player, people lynch him.

He'll if shir isn't scum you can lynch me, but I'm serious about waiting to here from Macrell and me before we lynch.
I'm lightly paranoid but my paranoia is a second scum team. I'd like to believe bel would give one more pr if that scenerio to be remotely true.

Can we do mass claim today before the lynch?
It never happened prior and we should do character, country and ability if any.

Mine is:

EUGENE JACQUES BULLARD
Lafayette Escadrille
France

Allied vanilla pilot

[farside22]

In terrible talking stuff out.



Location: drome

I took out about half the word because for me it would be obvious to guess keeping any if the letters prior.

[farside22]

I'm really confused now.
I thought you guys were talking about the second line being the location.

[farside22]

Arras.

The location is what I said, it's the Sami of the body of the post.

[farside22]

Same.

[farside22]

unless the second line is the Aerodrome, and I'm the one thats confused

is that it?

This ^

[farside22]

like in your PM, does it go

Lafayette Escadrille
J. Aerodrome
*****, France

Arras, france

Just in case you missed it, but yes that is how it is lined up.

[farside22]

Can we finish mass claim just for my own sanity.
Macrell and baezu, please.

[farside22]

Marcrell, you also have 17 Shiteburn lane, right?

Is it odd that Macrell is Irish and baezu is uk?
Both you and Anatole had the same city and country and me and shir had the same area

[farside22]

Just in case anyone comes to their senses here

Vote Shir

Pretty sure this was a hammer.
It is scummy for sure.

Just in case I'm wrong.

VOTE: Messiah

Didn't like the vote. He isn't scum hunting and is uninvolved in the game.

[farside22]

Shit, technically if Belisarius wants to be a hardass, Marc's vote change is not on a separate line.

I missed Macrell vote, but I'm not sorry for my vote. Messiah blanetly voted another player, without explaining anything scummy about him.
This game should be about find scum for town.

[farside22]

Wow.
I was surprised messiah was scum tbh. But after that quick vote on shir, he read as obvious scum, but I still doubted myself with the claims.

Gg

[farside22]

Well my paranoia was wrong about the second scum team, but correct when I'm looking at those unconfirmed trying to figure things out .
Sorry if I drove people crazy this last day.
I felt a bit list with the flavor claim and such.

[farside22]

Lost not list