Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]
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We ought to make a list. There's a ton of little things we have introduced into the cultural dictionary here that we are proud of.In post 1271, Tejate Raichu wrote:Regardless of whether you are town or scum, I will concede that I like your terminology.
Day X pass is pretty good.
My recent favorite is polonium tea.-
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Swear to Arceus she is a ceph whisperer.In post 1287, Amazonian Legends wrote:In post 1283, imaginality wrote:As in which post of fua's gave you the cop vibe?
Just so you know I had major wiggins when I saw this post whenever I skimmed. Until I talked to penguin and she said she had him pegged in bloodstained, and that made sense.In post 974, morph the cat wrote:Wanna know the best part of locktowning Tammyguin, Ceph?
My you-read is outsourced to somebody better at it!-
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But will it be coming round the mountain when it does?In post 1291, Amazonian Legends wrote:
When it comes?In post 1286, morph the cat wrote:Tammy when y'all gonna get around to finalizing a read on us? Kthnx
I don't know. Mafia is hard.-
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I just noticed your avatar likely has teeth if steel or needs a lot of dental work about two seconds after the snapshot he's in. Ouch.In post 1293, Cephrir wrote:it is difficult to calm my kneejerk reaction of townreading to shirou's self-conscious posts.-
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Then I declare complete and utter victory in this new arms race.In post 1294, Amazonian Legends wrote:
hehIn post 1292, morph the cat wrote:
But will it be coming round the mountain when it does?In post 1291, Amazonian Legends wrote:
When it comes?In post 1286, morph the cat wrote:Tammy when y'all gonna get around to finalizing a read on us? Kthnx
I don't know. Mafia is hard.
we have a read on you guys; it's just not locked.-
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Hah yeah she even apologized to me after she put it out there but oh well. Can't unsee it.In post 1299, Cephrir wrote:
why did she do this? it seems out of character.In post 1259, morph the cat wrote:Ffery just gave away the farm.
It's about her attitude at potentially being dead weight.-
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pooky figured it out. I'll have to work on it. I don't think it will be ~that~ easy to extinguish, at least in the near term.In post 1299, Cephrir wrote:
why did she do this? it seems out of character.In post 1259, morph the cat wrote:Ffery just gave away the farm.
It's about her attitude at potentially being dead weight.-
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Which is precisely what I called him on yesterday. And instead of addressing the actual issue he implied I was unreasonable to expect him to answer my question within 8 hours.In post 1309, Amazonian Legends wrote:without committing to stances of the situations.-
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Yeah. This is where I'm at as well. Not a solid town read, but still town.In post 1309, Amazonian Legends wrote: Cephrir goes here too. Town read, instinct over case.
Same, though I wanted (maybe still want) time to percolate on it.I did really like NSG's re-entry. Coming in and upending a popularly accepted town read would be extraordinarily gutsy for scum and showed a lot of independent though for town (in the non-condescending way). Reversal on the read for me.
I find his trying to stitch us and imaginality together to be kinda obnoxious. I misread his level of experience from his early posts, and was already thinking I might have towned him too hard on that basis when NSG made her posts.I know Shirou wanted folks to comment, but that really moved the needle more drastically for NSG than for Shirou.
I didn't like some of his early posts. stuff he's posted in the last 24 hours or so under mounting pressure, I have liked. And I don't really understand why that wagon blew up the way it did.I've also liked imaginality's posts and fallen off on implosion from where I felt I was a couple days ago. Tammy wants to talk about implosion when we're both awake tomorrow, and I'm fading fast.
I'm spinning my wheels over my implosion read. Eventually I'll get some traction. I hope.
This we'd probably both support fwiw.I looked at redtea's new content and I don't see anything to townread. Nothing from town motivation. Even the stuff under the spoiler tag is all commentary on exchanges without committing to stances of the situations. Probably looking to vote there once I talk to Tammy and consider how the imaginality wagon formed.
I'm curious if Tammy has played with implosion more recently than I have. Also GuiltyLion. I have him at leantown, but it's based on wisps, mostly.I'm hitting work hard in the morning, so more likely I'm around in the afternoon
--PA
Both of them are consuming way too much of my headspace about this game.-
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We prefer to release our morphisms like butterflies in the MS garden and see where they flit.In post 1273, Tejate Raichu wrote:Okay I swear, last off topic post for now. You get your own wiki page, right? You could use that.
fortunately(?) this is not a game for morphoglyphics so at least we're not inflictingthaton the table.
Did you get what you were hoping to get from this convo?-
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Intending?In post 1316, implosion wrote:are you intending to use morphism as a category theory joke :X
No.-
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That's interesting. You made a point of asking if we'd be around to interact with, but from my perspective what you wanted to talk about wasn't terribly this-game-oriented and didn't seem to be at all geared toward gleaning more alignment indicative info from us.In post 1317, Tejate Raichu wrote:
I'm getting pretty close to edible and pass out mindset myself in that my brain is currently working at 1% power. As for what I was hoping for? Nothing in particular really. More interactions with my slot are nice since I can trust that at least one person within the interaction is town. I'll think over your slot more as the game progresses but for the moment I think my opinion remains the same.In post 1315, morph the cat wrote:
We prefer to release our morphisms like butterflies in the MS garden and see where they flit.In post 1273, Tejate Raichu wrote:Okay I swear, last off topic post for now. You get your own wiki page, right? You could use that.
fortunately(?) this is not a game for morphoglyphics so at least we're not inflictingthaton the table.
Did you get what you were hoping to get from this convo?
Also I should probably sleep within the next hour or two.
I still like the day pass term.-
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I'm confused, but ok?In post 1320, Tejate Raichu wrote:I didn't very much have a particular point of contention with you I wanted to discuss. I was hoping something would come up naturally, in hindsight that may have been my fault.
I figured you were going to want to know more about our reads, or what we thought of an event(s) in the game. I reacted and asked that we all slow down when you put Imaginality at E-1. That seems like something you might have wanted to probe.-
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GL is north of null for me now, I think.
It's kinda wild how much this game has thrown me back into dedede-land. GL was town. TammyCeph hydra was town as fuck (and what trip that was, having Ceph as near-lock-town), Implosion was scum. Also, WhenWarthogsFly was such a great hydra name and that avatar was fire.
I think the player who reminds me most of their play in that game is Ceph,and I don't know if that really justifies a town read, but it's where I'm at.
I'm going to try to get my head out of the past today. I'm feeling a lot better than yesterday, so far anyway.
54 page reread starts now.-
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A combination of things.In post 1340, Cephrir wrote:may i inquire about your motivation for rereading and/or what prompted it?
Wanting to reread based on the lens of NSG's thoughts, because I think that will help both in understanding other players, and in terms of seeing how I feel about her perspective. I think her perspective is kind hard to refute where it's meta-based on players I'm not familiar with. I dislike dipping into cold meta and I hope I don't need to do much of that this game.
I want to widen my intake of the early days. Especially some of the bits that my eyes glazed over initially.
And over the last 48 hours I haven't been gleaning enough from what's been posted. yesterday was particularly awful, and I wound up doing more in-the-moment than integrating all the stances and arguments into a cohesive sense of the game.
I usually do my first reread when a game hits 20-30 pages depending on density. The data's been pretty dense in this game so far, with some notable exceptions.-
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Heh.In post 1352, Cephrir wrote:
yeah they still havent impressed meIn post 1350, Amazonian Legends wrote:
Do you still have concerns about morph and if so is it still underwhelming?In post 1345, Cephrir wrote:ok thx
i asked this question because i was wondering if they were trying to generate content survivalistically in response to reads on them falling
I was about to post a wall, too.-
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You want it, but you preemptively question if it's survivalistic. If town-you is concerned it might be, then why telegraph to me you're thinking that way rather than just weighing up the content when it happens?In post 1359, Cephrir wrote:
of course i want you to do that, i want to read you betterIn post 1356, morph the cat wrote:like you didn't want me to do things out loud because you KNOW that when I take a can-opener to my skull and put my thoughts about the game out there, players' reads of me get better.
i dont think i would do something like this intentionally anyway-
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I'll take this at face value for now.In post 1360, Cephrir wrote:i found your answer satisfying enough and wouldnt have mentioned it again if i wasnt asked about it-
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In post 30, Ydrasse wrote:amazonian is a little towny
@Implosion I'm probably rehashing shit, but I'm curious what about Ydra's 2 post have you a page 2 townlean on her. (I see that by page 10, only one player commented on this)In post 40, implosion wrote:Anyway. Ydrasse also kinda town i think.
Going back through Shirou's feels about non-signing hydras here. It bugs me a little more than it did initially. I was more in the mode of giving expectation-setting info about how we work together than in discerning alignment at that point. 42 didn't feel like an RVS vote, but c'mon. "Hydra doesn't sign -- vote: hydra"? I realize I'm probably confibiasing due to shirou's push. And I have issues with the POE characterization of his last post. But, I really dig into this so bear with me and maybe discount the salt. He was one of my first townreads. I wouldn't be shocked that I grossly misread him, but I would be surprised and disappointed in myself.
My eyebrows kinda raised at this post initially, but the Team Mafia mod experience made sense of it. I saw something similar in the Shakespeare game. He mostly kept those feels in the mafia thread, though, and to the extent they bled out into the game (minimally IMO) it wasn't the bulk of why he was being scumread by some players.In post 46, implosion wrote:And yeah that's also why I called Ceph's opening town. It didn't feel like it had a deep impending sense of dread that was being held behind a thin veneer.
It's a pity I haven't updated it since ~2017In post 71, northsidegal wrote:whom among us has not spent hours pouring through fferyllt's wiki page searching for clues to the mysteries of life
VOTE: implosion
Was there a reason why you'd think he might disagree?In post 56, Amazonian Legends wrote:Interesting. Wonder if Cabd agrees.
Cabd --> me
ffery --> Tammy
Cabd --> Tammy
ffery --> me
--PA
How and why was it interesting?In post 66, Shirou wrote:
oh, I thought her title was solely because she was really good on reading people by their trajectory or something, but it seems she also introduced the term to the forum hm...In post 65, morph the cat wrote:The giggle is because spay pretty much INTRODUCED the term "trajectory" into the mafiascum lexicon.
interesting
With which head? Both? I don't mind looking for needles in haystacks, but I kinda like knowing where the haystack is!In post 78, northsidegal wrote:
it has! well, it has either way, but it may also be possible that i've played with you (via secret alt) more recently than you think you've played with me. either way, cool to be in a game with so many familiar facesIn post 76, morph the cat wrote:Also, nice to see you NSG! It's been a very, very long time!
Noting this because I'm curious how this caution/fear has manifested since then.In post 93, implosion wrote:I have two recent games with GL, the first of which we were both town and he was very much the only person keeping me sane in the game and the second of which he was scum and absolutely snowed everyone especially me. So i certainly fear him but also will maybe know better this time.
This is kinda where my head was at re Shirou's experience. The approach to hydrae seemed kind of naïve when it hit the thread, but the replies suggested otherwise, and the approach -- ignoring lots of the obvious signs regarding who makes a post out of principle(?) is a convenient way to ignore inconvenient data. And as I said, if I think it matters which of us makes a particular post, I'll make my authorship clear without stooping to an "~f"In post 113, GuiltyLion wrote:hmmm Shriou, how excited would you say you are to play this game? How much forum mafia experience do you have ultimately?
Hey PA! I am not sure, having just spent several weeks dealing with her scum game I'm hoping to feel it out tone/vibewise if she's different. I don't have a great sense of Ydra meta but I guess if she's town I'd expect her to work a tiny bit harder than she just did in the Dance game to show some solvey thought processes?
I bristled at PA's post a little, hence reminding her BoP goes both ways. Partially because a facetious page 1 post seemed to strike a sensitive spot, and partially because hell yes I expect PA to correctly read Cabd, just as much as I'll trust his read of her in this hydra.In post 125, GuiltyLion wrote:
I dunno, my take is that if it's the kinda thing you think you would do as town then it's the kind of thing you need to bluster about similarly as scum, and they wasted basically no time whatsoever immediately trying to establish "scumreading me is a scumclaim from you" which just felt a lil over the top for how early it was and how they initiated it. Like I said though, if it's out of the ordinary and potentially scum-indicative from them I'd expect morph to pick up on that and so I want to weigh their opinion a bit more than my own, it could entirely just be me as a third party not understanding the nature of their relationship with eachotherIn post 121, Ydrasse wrote:...really? i had the opposite take and thought amazonian was townier because of the 'challenge' or threat they presented in their first posts.
like morph is probably the most boppable player(s) around at the moment and when you combine that with familiarity it's pretty uh... bold to make your first interaction "if you try to push us we WILL get you killed next day by virtue of our death" which doesn't really seem conciliatory at all but more like "fuck with us and regret it"
which, if there are people around that know you, seems like a bad idea to call attention to that sort of thing instantly.
Do you agree with his comments about the quantity of his recent games? Has he played on alts since his hiatus? I wouldn't really expect him to lie about how active he's been, but there was a sort of an "aw shucks" feel to his comments about being less intense since returning.In post 130, northsidegal wrote:i can identify who shirou is on sight regardless of account, it's happened 100% of the time
I liked number's 139 and I still do.
What were you thinking could be an advantage to doing this over having a flip and a bunch of trajectories to analyze?In post 211, Shirou wrote:actually this is important and I only realized it now so I've to ask
@catboi is voting for "no elimination" a possibility for an early day end?
I'm curious why you assumed the notes were handwritten?In post 243, Cephrir wrote:so 238 essentially just says "hey look everyone i have handwritten notes" since there is no actual reason for it to exist.
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My recollection is that at this point in the game I was feeling squinty-eyed about fua. That dissipated pretty quickly with more data, but I understand the suspicion that swirled for a bit over his entrance.
Tejate's posting at the page 10 point also bugged me a little, but there's a cheeky feel to his reaction to being scumread that I kinda like. But he also seemed kinda too self-referential - like that's bulk of his early-early posting.-
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It seemed to be an aspect of scumreading Tejate? Or suspecting him at least.In post 1365, Cephrir wrote:
i didn't mean that bit literally; was just calling back to when titus did this as it's where my head went.In post 1364, morph the cat wrote:I'm curious why you assumed the notes were handwritten?-
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We've had townreads all along, though? And have posted some of them, as well as comments about when reads are moving up or down.
I realize we're probably not throwing read updates out as frequently, but that's a factor of real life for both of us. When we're both feeling solid about the game again, we'll post a list we're ready to roll with.
In the meantime it would have been nice if we'd intersected in the thread often enough to hold an actual conversation and dig into reads, but that wasn't in the cards.
Originally I was holding some reads back to see how players reacted. And a post like that when I was holding some reads a little closely, would have felt right at home.
I don't know what you need to do, or what we need to do for you to have the data you need to get more certain about us, but I'm here and if you have questions I'm happy to answer. So far your posts about/to us have mostly been observations, and there's only so much I can do with that.-
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It is, yeah. I mean, there's a lot more to what we've both posted than our read of you.In post 1376, Amazonian Legends wrote:
Is this a response to me? I wasn't talking about reads on other people or saying that you hadn't done that.In post 1373, morph the cat wrote:We've had townreads all along, though? And have posted some of them, as well as comments about when reads are moving up or down.
I realize we're probably not throwing read updates out as frequently, but that's a factor of real life for both of us. When we're both feeling solid about the game again, we'll post a list we're ready to roll with.
In the meantime it would have been nice if we'd intersected in the thread often enough to hold an actual conversation and dig into reads, but that wasn't in the cards.
Originally I was holding some reads back to see how players reacted. And a post like that when I was holding some reads a little closely, would have felt right at home.
I don't know what you need to do, or what we need to do for you to have the data you need to get more certain about us, but I'm here and if you have questions I'm happy to answer. So far your posts about/to us have mostly been observations, and there's only so much I can do with that.
And I realize my concerns are very potentially a me problem and in part stemming from the fact that this game started when it did, and I've been constantly behind and catching up when I can. I'll be getting caught up tonight though and should be on top of things for the remainder of the day though!
FWIW in WH13 I wanted to outsource my read of you since I was hydraing with an expert, but didn't get that luxury. I got to a solid townread when I decided I needed to go it alone on day 1 and not wait for reads sync.
In Smokefilled, I was treating both you and Syr as masons practically from the start. My read of Syr was slightly stronger because he's an easier read for me. And we'd just made ourselves a masonry out of our neighborhood in the FGO 1 game, and a little of that vibe carried over to the dethy PT.-
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More importantly spay is completely trusting my reader she mentioned and I tend to make very snap quick decisions and never regret them when it comes to alignments of people whose play I know better than they do sometimes I understand your hesitance and accepting that fact or thinking that it's too soon but if anything that was slow on my part.-
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If you want to engage me, there are plenty of posts I've made that don't reference old games. Or, pick a topic.In post 1387, fua wrote:Like, I want to engage, but then I read posts like 1378 and my eyes glaze over. (No offense.)-
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This post at the time it was posted really bugged me, mostly because pulling out buzzwords so quickly always does, and LAMIST is one of the buzzwords I usually feel is least useful in describing a player's content. At the time I was townreading Shirou pretty hard and didn't really look past my negative reaction to whether contextually the post made sense or not. It actually did, as fua later defended adequately, hence this read also going townward.In post 259, fua wrote:It’s the open acknowledgment of self-awareness coupled with his LAMIST attitude and admission of uselessness that made me suspicious of him to begin with. The part I quoted in particular stands out as pretty odd to me.
We were already townreading Amazons at this point, but the post did crystalize the read. Though I acknowledge, Tammy that you quite likely can make that kind of post as scum. But, the context of it all just really did it for us.In post 263, morph the cat wrote:Day Masonize: Amazon
Ready to locktown as of 257.
Let me know when you two nerds catch up to our read~
Since then we've only found more reasons to townread you both. At this point you'd have to paint yourself red, make terrifying snow angels and post pics to shake the read. Or, make questionable statements/stances, that might work, too.
Pulling this numbers post out in entirety because it was his second post and I didn't like it quite as much as I did the first one.In post 270, numberQ wrote:Fast game, wee. I haven't read every post since my last one. Just gonna try to spit out some thoughts as they came to me while reading.
This is an interesting thought (that I see has already been scrutinized later in the thread so I won't dwell too much on it). I think there's merit in scumreading self-awareness, scum generally ARE hyper aware of what they're doing, if it looks good, what the implications might be of saying something, etc.
Interested in how claiming confusion over hydras is anything but NAI. Like, I've seen scum fake confusion over the mechanics to appear +town. But over hydra composition?In post 174, Cephrir wrote:
i'm liking shirou a moderate amount. they seem at ease and i don't mean because they're talking about how at ease they are/want to be.In post 148, morph the cat wrote:Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?
i didn't care for fua's first post.
This answer is +town. The question she's answering is -town.In post 178, Amazonian Legends wrote:
Why do I need an end goal?In post 166, fua wrote:
Just genuinely wondering because I’m confused as to what the end goal of the question is.In post 164, morph the cat wrote:
Why did post 110 in particular need to be poked at?In post 156, fua wrote:
Why ask this?In post 110, Amazonian Legends wrote:Hey GuiltyLion! Still love the avatar.
What do you expect from Ydrasse this game?
--PA
--PA
So I agree that PA's question-back is +town in the abstract, but I don't think it's out of her scumrange at all. IOW this kind of post is not why I'm townreading her and Tammy.
All in all, players pushing fua at this point in the game began to feel like going for low-hanging fruit and I didn't care much for that. I think the pushes on newer/unknown players should be looked back at when the game has progressed into the hard data phase. And yes, I was one of the earlier players pushing fua, but between NSG's admonishment and fua's 274 I calmed down and started to appreciate the swagger.
I agreed with this at the time. I still feel the reaction to 238 was one of the more questionable things that Ceph has done, though I've come around to a townlean. It's tenuous because he keeps posting shit about us that has a casting asparagus from the sidelines feel to it. See below.In post 273, numberQ wrote:The interaction between Tejate and Ceph from 238 on is pinging me. 238 itself does strike me as a lot of nothing thatcouldbe scum indicative. Ceph calling him out on it though, for some reason I didn't like it even though I generally agreed with the sentiment. And overall I feel like Tejate is coming out of that back and forth looking towny, and Ceph null-scum.
I'm several pages past this post, and I didn't see anyone ask about this, and I'd like to know what the things he'd said at that point seemed a little towny too you.In post 299, implosion wrote:I also don't really think tejate raichu is scummy as of now and there's a couple things he's said that I think are at least a little towny.
What were your mindmeld congruencies with Implosion?In post 314, GuiltyLion wrote:implosion and nQ get major towncred for mindmelds
and I kinda townread Ydrasse so far too
The Tejate stance is +town to me based on what was in the game at this point.In post 323, numberQ wrote:I want to TR Tejate because he does seem earnest. Plus I don't see S/S in Tejate + Ceph, and currently I like Ceph for scum. But I feel like Tejate isn't, I don't know, rocking the boat at all? I guess you don't have to do that to be town, but when I read most of his posts it feels kind of narrow and flat. I'm not seeing anything that makes me think "oh yeah, he's trying to pursue lines of thought and look for new angles to solve from".
Should probably re-ISO him but I'm out of time tonight, likely won't be on again until tomorrow.
I kinda don't like the use of "we" here. It comes off as trying to project "we the town".In post 349, Shirou wrote:
?In post 347, fua wrote:I don’t really care because you haven’t made your point yet.
okay I'll draw it then.
in this game at the moment we don't know whether you're lying or not since we don't know your alignment.
in the thread I linked, we know for sure you were telling the truth, you had no reason to lie.
In this current game you replied sarcastically to someone basically implying that you were well-versed/experienced as scum so people should hold you up to higher standards.
In the scum PT I linked you to, you admit you aren't very inexperienced and that it's your second scum game ever.
You probably gained a bit more confidence in your scum game from the win in that recent scum game, but your sarcastic reply still feels ?"overdone"? to me in a certain extent?
It's the kind of reply I would expect from someone like Flavor Leaf or so, but not really from a newer player without too much scum experience on their belts.
On page 15, I like pretty much everything that fua posted. He even echoed my paranoia-pair thoughts.
You, too, echoing my paranoia thoughts.In post 376, Cephrir wrote:
i was just thinking of emptyvoting one of these two and now my thunder is slightly stolen. v rude.In post 362, fua wrote:I can see implosion and GL as a scum pairing.
VOTE: guiltylion
And then
This was tiresome at the time. It's gotten about 5 times more tiresome since. Fucking figure me out. It's not that hard.In post 378, Cephrir wrote:fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet-
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it didn't hold completely but I worked into a townread of him in Empire's swag wars mini.In post 1394, Amazonian Legends wrote:In post 1077, morph the cat wrote:I'm here.
I'm absorbing atm.
My read of implosion is really frustrating. I feel strongly something's off with him, but it's so hard pinpoint/find words.
Have you been able to townread implosion in games where he’s been town?In post 1097, morph the cat wrote:
Right, and I didn't hang on to that read. And I wouldn't expect you to make that kind of misstep again, probably ever, but definitely not playing with us.In post 1094, implosion wrote:
In dedede you had very specific things you nailed me on, or at least one, if I remember. Like I mentioned there was a single post you shredded me over that I immediately regretted making.In post 1093, morph the cat wrote:I don't think so. Pretty sure I was bugged before you expressed that. I think it probably has more to do with having suspected and even voted you at times in the dedede game I just didn't have certainty and conviction, and I don't want to make that mistake again here.
And, in that game I think we were well beyond 40 pages when that exchange occurred.
Your playstyle feels very similar here in some ways.
You're not going to convince me that this entirely an exercise of jumping at shadows. If I come to that conclusion it will on my own.
2 hiatus ago.-
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You were in the swag mini too. I don't remember your reads of Implosion. He was a 2-shot vig iirc.In post 1396, Amazonian Legends wrote:I ask because I was trying to make sense of my own read there. Penguin suspects implosion and I’ve just basically said I dunno. But really he doesn’t seem any different from other games, but I’ve never been great at reading him I don’t think. Iirc most of the time I have him as possible town unless other things in the game have made that clearer.
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This post I agreed with.In post 427, GuiltyLion wrote:I will say this though, frankly, your reasons for townreading redtea suck and you should re-evaluate there. Again, they didn't take any real stance on your alignment, just buddied up to you while offering a generic vague statement about your playstyle that has nothing to do with your alignment
Had to check. Your partners in dedede voted together occasionally on day 1. you did not vote with them.In post 434, implosion wrote:
This is also kind of weird. I feel like scum if anything will try to haveIn post 404, fua wrote:
It’s because you have no interactions with each other and yet pray to the reach gods to try to fabricate a reason to scumread me within less than a page of one another. But that’s just why I think you could be paired even outside of you both individually being scum.In post 402, GuiltyLion wrote:
is this because of any specific interactions between us, or just because we are both voting youIn post 362, fua wrote:I can see implosion and GL as a scum pairing.differentreads from each other. I feel like if I were scum and saw a scumbuddy fabricate a scumread on player X the last thing I would do is then go "hm, i should also fabricate a scumread on player X".
And there's plenty of players that I at least have not interacted with at all.
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I really didn't like the gang up on fua by GL and Implosion on page 18.
I didn't hate these reads when they hit the thread, but only one of these players was a townread for me at the time and that was a little alarming. Implosion later wrote it up to our reads of Amazon not being the same.In post 466, implosion wrote:I very desperately want to call Shirou super town but I feel like he's the kind of slot that I incorrectly townread sometimes.
I like tejate/ceph/nQ/ydrasse for town so far.
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So much sync with Amazons on page 20-21. :/
My issue is that I felt that fua's posts were bleeding town at this point, which is why both GL and Implosion going at him at once just really bugged me.In post 548, Amazonian Legends wrote:
Ceph's post there had a little kick to it, and I was trying to remember if that was more likely to come from ceph!town than ceph!scum. It's been so long, but I thought I remember it being more likely to come from town him?In post 512, morph the cat wrote:
When the post hit the thread, we snorted at Ceph dusting off the Titus handwritten notes tell. And we don't think it's a valid observation in this case.In post 508, Amazonian Legends wrote:
morph (and penguin)In post 310, GuiltyLion wrote:
this post in particularIn post 243, Cephrir wrote:so 238 essentially just says "hey look everyone i have handwritten notes" since there is no actual reason for it to exist.
I could definitely imagine it being town in Ceph's spot trying to pressure a questionable slot, but it's just ever so slightly too aggressive for me. like I can see where Ceph is coming from calling out that the "notes" comment is a bit LAMISTy, but it's not too hard for me to imagine a town!Tejate writing the post and thinking it might be useful, he feels genuine to me
What did you guys think about this? Both the original post by Ceph and the analysis by Guilty Lion?
I don't really have an objection to GL's characterization of Ceph, beyond my general concern that many of his stances so far feel overblown given the data in the thread.
Also I'm gonna have to break out the benadryl if I see many more "LAMISTy" references.
Anyway, I found gl's post there about it a bit scummy, but then I just read through his back and forth with fua, and I liked his posts there, so now I"m kinda meh on thinking this was a scummy post.
I'm caught up but need to step away and finish some work, so I'll be back shortly.
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I won't be posting much until I've finished watching my story. Back for realz in an hour or so.-
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I like GL better than I do Implosion.In post 1415, Amazonian Legends wrote:I am caught up. It's also past my bedtime and I'm crashing. I will be around more over the next few days and will compile my thoughts tomorrow. Also playing mafia sober is weird. I think for years drinking something while playing helped me focus and clear all the clutter and distractions in my brain, and caused huge messes too, but sober my brain is like shiny wait what page was I on? lol.
Anyway, I'll talk about my reads tomorrow. Ffery, that point you made about GL going after fua there; that was one part of the game that I really liked GL. I was town leaning fua by that point, but that interaction ended up making me townread fua stronger and made me town lean GL. Maybe I wouldn't like it so much in retrospect, but I suspected GL's earlier posts and then liked that interaction.
I'll probably not crash right away, so I might post. Just no deep thoughts, if they exist, until tomorrow.
I'll say that much.-
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Who is it this game who should be townreading you and working with you and isn't?In post 1374, Cephrir wrote:
me, living this every gameIn post 1372, Amazonian Legends wrote:I know it's annoying when you're expecting someone to town read you easily and work together, and they're sitting over there squinty eyed-
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The times we have been able to work together were good games. Advance Wars. Even dedede. it's not a matter of worthiness, but of finding each other.
I've been trying to find a moment of zen. neuterhalf trusts peng to read you after the bloodstained game. it's games like that one that cause me to want to keep my guard up, but I feel like I should build a bridge and get over it.-
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When I read this, my reaction was an eyeroll and ridicule.
Which gives me pause.-
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Those pretty words you posted last night. :/In post 1442, Cephrir wrote:I do feel like giving morph the opportunity to have the vote they want could help me just BOP them instead of arriving at a read. :p-
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Any thoughts about the actual content of the last 3-4 pages?In post 1427, Tejate Raichu wrote:It's understandable, mafia can be very emotionally turbulent. It can be hard to remind ourselves that at the end of the day, it's just a game.
A very draining game at times, but a game nonetheless.-
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Do you feel that using day 1 associatives is >rand in accuracy down the road?In post 549, numberQ wrote:
Yeah in a vacuum I'm unsure about Shirou. But that's all it is, uncertainty. I'm willing to TR him by association with my SR on Ceph.In post 547, Ydrasse wrote:
ummm sooooIn post 546, numberQ wrote:After this, Ceph proceeds to pocket Shirou with 207 and 223.
i voted you because i felt like you were working towards a potential shirou vote with your posts like. 509 you're saying you don't buy what shirou's saying, you're doubtful, it's felt like a theme in your iso where you're unsure about shirou. so why are you confident then that this is ceph pocketing?
I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.In post 576, Cephrir wrote:
What, am I supposed to shut up while the big kids talk about things that matter? I'm gonna do my thing.In post 571, morph the cat wrote:You ran right over our reads list.
In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/
After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.
It didn't look like a post meant for the scum PT to me, but overall I'm feeling like he's playing kinda on the sidelines and in a very self-referential way. It's been low-key bugging me for a while . Maybe this is a tough player list to break into for someone new to the site.In post 577, fua wrote:
This post gives me awful gut vibes and feels like it's supposed to go in the Scum PT.In post 557, Tejate Raichu wrote:It seems like nQ wagon might be a popular choice for today? We should still explore our options, though.
At the time it was sort of a tone-read, but I'm less copacetic atm. Compared to tea, imaginality was putting some data in the game at that point.In post 593, numberQ wrote:
How do you have anything but null on imaginality?In post 561, morph the cat wrote:[snip]
not enough data to make an educated guess, but kinda scum-leaning tea, and kinda townleaning imaginality
As to why less copacetic, I'm thinking about how ragey and solvey I get about being run up as town, whether I show the rage or not. Different players, different personalities, different styles. But there's absolutely no way I'd be joking about cauliflower in imaginality's shoes.-
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what is "this"? The redtea/imaginality wagons? Something else?In post 1448, Cephrir wrote:I meant those toooo
Later. I am pretty busy the next few days; evidently I cannot do anything g without upsetting someone which kinda suggests to me that this is important.
I hope you feel better soon, Ydra.In post 1449, Ydrasse wrote:
When you feel like getting back into the game I'm curious about your current thoughts on numbers.-
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I hate the hedginess of this statement given there's like zero posts in your iso that suggest you're all that undecided about us.In post 633, implosion wrote:And the reason I phrase that as "sketch me out a bit?" is because morph is not someone who I would ever expect myself to be able to actually get a solid scumread on or who I really expected to have much of a solid read on in general.
Where is the sorting? There are 54 mentions of "morph" in your ISO and none of them strike me as particularly sort-y. What posts am I misreading?In post 1099, implosion wrote:
And as for this I still am going to make every attempt to do so, partially because I still need to continue sorting you as well and partially because of a very primal need to nag people who are scumreading me when I can.In post 1097, morph the cat wrote:You're not going to convince me that this entirely an exercise of jumping at shadows. If I come to that conclusion it will on my own.
And worse, there are 54 mentions of "morph" in your iso, and not one of them is actually geared at sorting us. Maybe I'm missing something?-
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@number? I didn't see you respond to this post, though it's not exactly addressed to you.
There are some at least superficial similarities to the two posts.
I'm more in the crumb an inno, claim a guilty camp. However you feel about crumbs and whether you personally would go looking for one, the data's still there and I'm pretty confident thatIn post 631, Shirou wrote:
?In post 626, implosion wrote:innos when relevant
I think that cops should always claim results here, even if it's only an inno?
Everyone is 1-shot so we aren't losing anything other than "hiding them from scum kills", but like, I don't want to write a wallpost here but basically it's not really that much of an issue even if they kill the inno given it would likely be someone that is a former suspect?
Forcing an inno to get nightkilled sounds way better to me than risking someone been cleared before but no one knowing it because the cop died at a night later before saying it.
I guess we can "crumb results" but...I don't know. I think it's obvious by now but I'm not a fan of crumbing, to the point I don't bother looking for crumbs even when I'm scum.somebodywould find it after a cop's flip if there was no need to out it earlier.
Eh.In post 634, implosion wrote:
Crumbing results is a bad idea unless the crumb is ridiculously obvious, because cops flip without their night so we'd have no way of knowing if a dead cop has a result.In post 631, Shirou wrote:
?In post 626, implosion wrote:innos when relevant
I think that cops should always claim results here, even if it's only an inno?
Everyone is 1-shot so we aren't losing anything other than "hiding them from scum kills", but like, I don't want to write a wallpost here but basically it's not really that much of an issue even if they kill the inno given it would likely be someone that is a former suspect?
Forcing an inno to get nightkilled sounds way better to me than risking someone been cleared before but no one knowing it because the cop died at a night later before saying it.
I guess we can "crumb results" but...I don't know. I think it's obvious by now but I'm not a fan of crumbing, to the point I don't bother looking for crumbs even when I'm scum.
I generally would have no issue with a cop claiming an inno in almost any situation. But if you're a cop and you have an inno, and that inno is under no pressure, and you're under little or no pressure, and you don't think you're likely to be NK'd, then it's not unreasonable to hold onto the info. Also not unreasonable to give it.
Hypoclaiming would be another option I suppose. There would be no ambiguity after a cop flip, and prior to that, just a whole lot of noise for scum to ponder.
Thoughts about hypoclaiming?In post 637, Shirou wrote:eh
if I was scum I would love that opinion of yours
being able to claim later on "oh btw I'm cop and my inno is a dead guy from ages ago" is too much of a convenient fakeclaim here
There's barely any difference between claiming innos as soon as day start, and "waiting" to claim innos for town (when you consider the risk of the cop dying without ever saying someone was cleared, in fact it sounds like a swingy strategy)
However there certainly is a lot of benefit for scum to be able to hold on claiming until later. You want to make scum claim as soon as possible in this setup in my opinion. If you leave it all for when we massclaim, scum can fakeclaim whatever is the most convenient to counter our results by then.
This is probably a take we should give our opinions on. Everyone should comment on whether they are in favor or against cops claiming the innos as soon as day start.
I'm infavor. I want to lock scum to their claims as soon as humanly possible.
Implosion went after him, too.In post 678, Shirou wrote:@fua
You aren't confirmed but I see where you're going/your motivation for doing it I guess.
Who did scum read fua again? GL? I wonder what their opinion on this is.
IMO he was town before the claim, so much so that I would have blatantly gone to bat today. I can academically understand the concern about being future LHF.In post 693, Shirou wrote:I'm a bit worried that I'm starting to town lean fua now due to that even if I know they seem to have intentionally said it for that reason (so I would be basically doing exactly what they want which is a bit uncomfortable?), but all in all, considering some other details and how this can develop, for now I think it's probably for the best for me to personally town-bin fua (not necessarily an universal recommendation). We can cross certain bridges when we get there I suppose.
I have some misgivings.In post 699, Shirou wrote:this is one read I can be wrong about, I'm bad with reading newbies, but I also think Tejate is probably more likely than not town.
Even if he isn't conscious of it, I feel like it would be quite weird for scum!Teijate to be so worried later about people "tying up" his slot to Ceph unless they are partners...and if Ceph ever flips red, well,we can cross that bridge if we do ever get there³.
Lastly, his post "if Shirou is scum he's surely doing a good damn fine job at it" seems rather unusual/difficult to come up with for newbie scum. It may be a single post but it's the kind of person/player I'm. I feel better about reads surrounding a few posts rather than taking the entire ISO of someone into consideration.
p-edit: @Teijate I can tell fua is likely ballsy, but my opinion that this is the correct course of action to do at the moment remains.
I should have <3'd this post when it hit the thread.In post 704, Cephrir wrote:
well, there is the towncred they're getting from being obviously town on these last 2 pages, does that helpIn post 692, numberQ wrote:
What towncred are you getting though? That's my point.In post 690, fua wrote:Have you never put your ducks in a row and singled out potential miselims to push as scum? By taking one of those away and putting that fat towncred on myself I remove some of their power and give town time to talk about the events preceding my alignment and role reveal.
The main thing I have to say about this post is that it's spicy in that some the reads he put forth ran pretty counter to the prevailing winds at this time.In post 713, imaginality wrote:So from my read-through, these are the players I'm suspicious of to various degrees:
Cephrirlooks a bit suspicious to me, there's been a few instances of Cephrir commenting negatively on something without following through on it. Seems like the intent is to stir up suspicion rather than scum-hunt.
I'm also suspicious ofYdrasse. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.
I think if anythingfua's claim today is slightly +scum rather than +town as fua hinted it's a late-day action so it seems like it could be designed to encourage us to keep fua around, while also making docs likely to target fua which is fua is scum gives scum freer rein to kill whoever they like. Definitely feeling a bit wary about that.
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The players I get good townvibes from so far areShirou,morphandnumberQ. I feel okay aboutGuiltyLiontoo. I don't quite recall what the case was against him but I do recall it didn't seem great to me.
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Having a hard time figuring out where I stand onAmazonianandTejate. They will be my focus for digging into tomorrow
I was interested in the wayimplosiondefended Ydrasse and NSG in post 632. This is more of an 'if NSG or Ydrasse flip scum, I'd look harder at implosion' thing. I don't see implosion as being as questionable as the players I mentioned above.
redteaandnorthsidegalfall into TBC, need more data here.
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Mech thoughts:
I'm on board with the 'cops claim results at daystart' plan.
On a different note:
Assuming a 5-5 split, we have on average 97% chance of at least one pair of Town cops (i.e. cops who have the same action on the same night), and 78% chance of two pairs (or one triplet). Even if it's a 4-6 split, the 4 town players have 81% chance of at least one pair.
The same analysis applies to docs, of course.
So objectively, for the town as a whole, we can't really tell a lot from the existence of any particular pair.
However, subjectively it's a little different. Subjectively, there's 1-80%^4 = 60% chance of you being paired with a town player if you're part of five town players with that role (and 50% if there are four of you, 70% if there are six of you). So someone claiming the same role and night as you gives you at least a slight reason to suspect them over baseline suspicion (3/12 = 25%).
How has this readslist stood up over time?In post 743, Cephrir wrote:town: shirou
town lean: fua, tejate
neutral: ydrasse, amazonian i GUESS but please do more
neutral but i look extra not impressed while talking about them: everyone else
scumlean: guiltylion, nsg
do better
How did you expect town morph and town Amazon to interact?In post 749, Cephrir wrote:honestly now that i think about it this is more or less what i'd expect from a morph/amazon scumteam. a cursory dance followed by townlocking each other for inscrutable or too easy reasons, and amazon not doing much to interact with the rest of the game because it's easy for them to look good interacting with morph.
so i reiterate, do better
I dunno why, but the willingness to vote GL surprises me. I feel like I've missed some stuff in your posts. will have to review.In post 790, implosion wrote:I'd join a wagon on any of redtea/GL/imaginality I think.
I feel like this is a fair amount of defense of a player Shirou isn't expressing a townread on? I dunno. I think we've got some serious playstyle clash going on with him.
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It wasn't meant to be harsh at all. It's occurred to me that we've been talking past each other. We've both been reading each other as hostile. We've both been sarcastic. I've been more up in your grill and you've been more asparagus from the sidelines.In post 1455, Cephrir wrote:
Yes, you framed it as though I had done something wrong when I didnt even know you had posted a read list yet. This felt confusing and hostile to me. This post is also strangely hostile.In post 1450, morph the cat wrote:I just want to point, Ceph, that this was me saying I wanted your thoughts about our reads list.
In reply to your post I made that explicit. :/
After our discussion last night about your feeling shut out in a lot of games, running into this convo in my reread hit me right in the face. Maybe sometimes your expectation of being shut out is self-fulfilling.
I'm feeling so zen right now. I've let go of feeling like I have to solve you all by myself, and I'm in a mode where I'd like to try to work with you.
Some games I mostly play from a place of feeling I dunno, cooperative?
That generally doesn't happen when I feel like I'm being piled on by players who I think should know better (regardless of whether that's a good assumption on my part).-
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When would be a suitable amount of time to expect an answer?In post 1457, redtea wrote:might've missed it bc i was skimming but kinda bummed no one responded to my questions in #1209. Like I didn't ask them just to ask, I asked because if someone had something to say it would be helpful to me.
a little old now but
I just assumed you would've read #982 and held off on a follow-up accordingly, even if that @ wasn't to youIn post 1058, morph the cat wrote:
You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.In post 1047, redtea wrote:@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago-
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morph the cat Sync Achieved
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- Joined: July 14, 2013
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morph the cat Sync Achieved
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Yeah you were but I'm still not really clear on the why. It's probably because I can't seem to drag my focus away from your trajectory on us.In post 1471, implosion wrote:This was referring to my caution/fear toward GL - it's interesting that you were curious how this had manifested since then, and then you later on were surprised that I was willing to wagon GL. I feel like you should be able to draw that connection if you were specifically looking for it.