Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Elbirn]

There are 8 players alive, 4 to lynch
We're in lylo if there are 3 living scum

Are there 3 living scum? Does tywin know that there are 3 scum and thus know it's lylo based on post 3983, then back tracks away by claiming to forget about 2 other players? Only time will tell!~☆

[Elbirn]

What is your Sonia read?

Is this towards me?
If yes I'm about to go shower so the best answer I have for now is to shrug my shoulders. She was written off as town earlier but I legitimately forget why, and she's done fuck all since. I'd like to iso her and get back to you soon-ish

[Elbirn]

I lied I haven't gotten to shower yet but I also haven't done shit. In a minute.

Tywin, why do you townread sonia again?

[Elbirn]

Elibirn, I do want you to ask one thing. If I was scum, and you believe there are 3 left, who are my scum buddies and why do you think that? Regardless of you believing im scum or not, I'd have to have at least one buddy. Maybe two. So who would they be, and have they been bussing me since D1? It's something to think about and analyze.

That was mostly snark, and I reflected later that that many scum would make zero sense.

Pending further review doe your scumbuddy is sonia.

[Elbirn]

Tywin your AtE is being laid on far too thiccc. Yes, with 3 c's. I don't even understand what you're upset about. And your attempts to discredit pine as not doing anything make no goddamn sense when he's been contributing quite a bit since shedding his lurker-sack-Ness from day 1. And then I have no idea how you forget several people as being in the game and push that it's lylo and dude you're just what

I've been flip-flopping on your alignment all game but I think these recent posts have solidified me being tired of your shit. Constant, baseless ate, and your jabs at Pine are like scum stubbornly refusing to let go of a mislynch they want. The latter is exactly what I do when I'm scum, and I feel that plenty of scum have done it, you don't have organic read progressions cuz it's all fake so you pick a target and you stick with it and then you don't know when to stop.

As much as you like to insist otherwise, people *really do give reasons for scumreading you and have been doing so for some time*



And re: some of your other recent posts,
Scum 101: "If I'm scum then who's my buddy? Hmm?"

[Elbirn]

Sonia is unlikely due to Cloudkicker analysis, which is so far pretty accurate.

Convince me on Sonia pretty please. I still need to do some more of my own work there but I've been steadily going down a dark tunnel of confbias while thinking about tywin/sonia.

According to Cephrir's vote counts, CloudKicker only ever voted for players who have already flipped town, and once voted me and you, pine. Which seems a bit of weak evidence for you being town.

What's the analysis for sonia being town?

.....wait we already talked about this he tried to push sonia and voted her *why the hell isn't that in the mods vote counts I remember everything but the vote counts lie*

Fuckit I'm going to bed bye

[Elbirn]

Titus you have 3 days of data now, give us your vca

Also stop shading me it's garbage

[Elbirn]

Pine: I'm going to go through CK's iso when I can and see if I see what you see. My belly-feels still feel good about tywin/sonia team.

When we lynch Tywin and he flips red, i'll go over why exactly you thinking me and him are buddies is really dumb, if necessary, but lort pine don't do this to me just lynch scum

I agree that CK analysis is crucial, overall we all haven't been playing smart. I even said I wanted to start playing smarter and then proceeded to do fuck all about it. Today we start playing mafia 4 real. CK and nos analysis is key. I'll also be looking at tywin and Sonia under a microscope while I'm at it.

I think we should figure out why CK was night killed. Before I'd have said he was killed for having on point reads, but now that literally everyone he's voted for has flipped town, *shrug shoulders, fart noise* so it must be something else. Scum doesn't kill for nothing.

[Elbirn]

I am doing the full thing now

Thank you.

Frankly we've been butting heads this whole game and I've been kind of a dick but all I've wanted is for you to play. When this game ends, if youre town, and you put effort into things, I won't even care. If you're gonna mislynch me, you will case me first.


I'm gonna make a big-ish post soon of what I feel are relevant CK posts, stay tuned.

[Elbirn]

"I don't wallfight with scumreads"
What the hell was that tywin fight you had day 1 then? Jesus. Like this is why I've been having such a bad time with you this game, I want to just play the game assuming that you're town but then you rustle my Jimmie with bad things. This right here is like "lol elbirn I'm just not gonna engage u because fairy dust, lul :^)"

I give, I'm writing you off as town and accepting whatever happens, but I'm just gonna ignore you for the most part cuz nothing productive is gonna happen

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: A vomit of CK posts

Hello sonia transcend <3

*rose picture deleted for lagging my phone*
VOTE: sonia rose ate d1 new meta

Im sure if i was mefia someone would have to the occasion to fos me

You really GREW on me sonia. Before you LEAF me without your snapchat... i know im thorn to be wild but you shouldnt be so meanie

I aready found 1 mefia and i will townblock transcend if he has the same read

Titus why do you think Gamma is not a BFF?

He's null. Too early.

No hes not, he voted obvious town and you say someone fosing obvious town is null because lack of content beep beep
Lapsa is obvious town, sonia didnt say hi so ill go and say that its not towny, titus had 2 bad posts, tra

sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot

VOTE: elbirn

Lets fish for a reaction !!

@trans some of her posts are just textbook scum trying to evade outing reads

Also i disagree that there wasnt enough content to at least out a 1st impression, i also personnaly dislike the structure of her post and that makes me sr her, she sounds forced

Sonia i can read you pretty damn well even tho you dont believe it. Last game you got me only because you used outside game meta which was fairly fucking low coming from you

and lol i didnt say you were scum for not saying hi, it was mostly a joke

Sonia i trust that i am competent enough that i will eventually have a correct read on your alignement, whatever it is

We will see, im town and i really want to nail this game and its a large so its a challenge. Lets show that emers are the best i love you sonia

im obviously buddiyng you cause thats your weak point, buddiess <3

136 was an obvious joke, stop taking everything so literally

A bad joke, but that's not the point. The real point is you trying to 'joke' your way through the game doing absolutely nothing useful. Jokes are great when you also contribute, but you haven't and don't seem to want to.

Why dont you think about why would i do this as scum vs a town mindset, what is the scumgain vs the towngain

People are really innaccurate on average on this site and this is one of those reasons, actions are NAI, intention/motivation are AI

tywin is town, i still sr titus and gamma vote on me has no credibility

What have alisae done with sonia even ? @ ssbm

also tywin is town over titus imo

Yes also what sonia said, i thought that exactly

sonia your scum/town difference of play is blatant or you play diff on this acc

3. Sonia pops up out of nowhere, sheep's Titus by calling me scum, and her reason is also sheeped by giving her reason as my 'it's only fair' statement. Zero originality there. That's some blatant sheeping going on.



Sonia: why haven't you asked me any questions? Also, why did you sheep Titus exactly to the T? Do you have no original thought? I find that sheep on atrocious reasonings are almost always scum. What do you think? Also, when ssbm_Kyouko pointed out your blatant buddying with Titus in post #400, you came back in #407 calling him 'not town' for no reason. It was another OMGUS shade throw with zero follow through. You haven't followed any lead or anything you claim to be scummy with any actual questions whatsoever. Also, you claim my post #303 is 'scummy as fuck.' Please explain what in it is scummy. You said it was overly defensive and manipulative. What was I defensive about? Who was I defending against? How does that make any sense whatsoever? I joined in with Elibirn to get Uzi to answer why he thought Elibirn was scum. He never gave a good reason, but regardless, what was there for me to be defensive about? I wasn't being attacked, so why call it defensive? Also, how was it manipulative in a scummy way? Do you know what 'scummy' even is, or only when you're town and not using contrived reasoning to throw shade on players? Why are you chainsaw defending Uzi here? You AND Titus both highly dislike Uzi being questioned. Both of you have attacked me now over me forcing Uzi to answer a basic question. Neither of you seem to have any real questions for me though. Now THAT is 'scummy as fuck' (to quote your own words).

Okay you're clearly not reading the thread what so ever you need a bit more coffee I came back in the day having to catch up I saw your post that I disliked (get to that in a moment) and I called you out on it also I said your post was scummy but the thing you forgot to address was I said I liked your other posts that's why I didn't vote you because that was the only post I had a bit of trouble with I wasn't sheeping Titus I didn't even see her call you scum I don't even know what post ssbn called me out on the post in question you were defending yourself it was over defensive on your actions like "don't look at me it isn't my fault on this!" I don't ever omgus unless it's for a joke purpose "how does it make sense" you ask because it makes sense what type of question is that Also I'm not defending Uzi I don't have a read on him what I AM doing is calling out your shitty reasoning in that post I know what scumhunting and being scummy is smart one I don't have a question for you because there's nothing to be asked would you like some RQS? I saw a post I disliked and I commented it you clearly don't even know what sheeping is just because 2 players dislike a post doesn't make it sheeping buddy

@ sonia you never typed a post like that in our last game, not even close to it. The structure is genuine because you didnt edited it 10 times before posting like you were doing

At this point, I'm happy with a lynch on Tywin. Because pressure is on him, he feels as if he is obligated to go through everything. One example is why I thought Titus was scum. He thought I was responding to him because I had a post of his quoted in that post (which is not the case btw).

Also, Tywin is pushing Titus while giving Sonia a scum read seems off to me. I feel like at that moment, Sonia would have been a lot easier to push at the moment, but Tywin isn't pushing Sonia. So if Tywin is scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sonia scum with Tywin.

This line is shit.
Tywin isn't really that scummy just had a bad post he does seem like he's trying to figure the game out while you're just casting shade at wagons with fluff
the light shade toss to me is cute though.

Tywin outright lied about things twice in the thread. I don't get how you're saying he's trying to figure things out.

What were the lies

1) That I never asked him anything.
2) That I claimed Gladiator was normal when I only said it was real.

Do you really think that a wall posting player like tywin would only use something as nai as gladiator talk to push on you, i dont

Sonia has big ass balls when shes town btw

Sonia has big ass balls when shes town btw

? You mean Stubborn orrr

You arent afraid to fight and to be assertive

Im not going to destroy your scum meta either so ill leave it here but so far you should be town and i think i pined you

Sonia has big ass balls when shes town btw

? You mean Stubborn orrr

You arent afraid to fight and to be assertive

This is true.
Pedit: i don't really have a scum meta.

Everyone does girl, but i agree that your town play is doesnt tends to be an average kind of play compared to your scumplay, not sure if you understand what im saying

Titus its because you dont know the extensive shared game experience we have, i also tr her for tone, shes a goddam pussy when shes scum btw

Only thing stopping me from voting alt is a lot of people already seem to sr her so I'm a bit ehhhhh

normally the top wagons at the start of D1 aren't on scum.

Ure better than that

You dont win game when you change your reads because of average players's reads

then maybe you should lead more d1 when ure town

Cabd, I am at Lapsa AJ TL as stronger scumreads. Alisae uneases me, same with Uzi. Gamma might be scum.

Cloudkicker solid town. Pine and Sonia lean town. Nero is likely town, not by his content, but by the posturing in thread. Mozamis weak town. Nostramus, gun to head town.

Be my soundingboard? Cloud, please chime in too.

Peace out until tonight.

Honestly, im not too sure how to take your read on me, hence why i havent addressed any where you said you tred me. I think sonia is town, i agree with mozamis too and nos but thats about it

VOTE: Alisae

gonna ignore my comment about most d1 wagons prob not being scum and just go for it!

wow is that you townleading or what

i think sonia didnt like the wagon more than the posts, she most likely read the game state and had a gut read that the wagon was on town @alisea

you fucking sniper.

owned

I also think i have a underdog read on sonia so we will see, i feel like most of the actives players are town leaning

shoulda bought one in the 90's like me

Hi there, im glad youre popping out, do you still think titus is mefia?

I change reads when I get more info Cloud. You were my first non-RVS vote. Am I not allowed to reevaluate?

Changing reads is fine, i was just wondering what made you change

Yea okay that works, also tywin couldve townslipd with the day chat thing but easily fake townslip, i still have done it many time

^reinforcing the t slip theory

Even-though Titus complains about meta she's actively aware and spouts her "I don't bus as scum" meta. In that same street fighters game that I posted earlier, she defended one of her buddies hard....but also bussed on of her buddies hard.

My stance is that scum are plenty capable of defending their buddy but town also whiteknight/defend and I'm not skilled enough to tell the difference.

player from 2009 and ure not confident in your reads

Even-though Titus complains about meta she's actively aware and spouts her "I don't bus as scum" meta. In that same street fighters game that I posted earlier, she defended one of her buddies hard....but also bussed on of her buddies hard.

My stance is that scum are plenty capable of defending their buddy but town also whiteknight/defend and

I'm not skilled enough to tell the difference.

player from 2009 and ure not confident in your reads

sounds bogus

Anyway, nero cain what do you think of tywin/alisae/titus trifecta

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

T v S?

t vs t*

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

Because I wanna help you scumhunt?

That's not helping scumhunt. That's pushing me down a path, which unfortunately is a different theory all together.

Also, why are you voting me if convinced I am hunting?

VOTE: Tywin
Not anymore.

For those that don't understand, I freaked out when

I was under the pressure Tywin gave me. And cause I was in that state of mind, I reacted to shit out of desperation. However, Tywin knows I react this way when I'm under a ton of fucking pressure. I think he does anyways. I think his first step to fighting Titus was to pressure me and be like "If she flips scum you're fucked." Tywin knew the buttons to push with me, so he manipulated me and pushed them. But I think he knew that he should start pushing them.

Tywin, you seem so desperate, I'm calling your bluff.

Imo that textbook mafia overexplaning their vote prior to the flip, also being proactive about being called out on it since the vote in itself is bad from her priors votes, alisea has be tuning her titus/tywin vote depending on the town swing for a good 10 ish pages now

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

I'll fucking confirm this. I am flip floping at the moment. I don't know what the fuck to do. I don't know who the fuck is what. I dunno what's real. I dunno what's fake. I dunno my gender even. What operating system is this toaster even fucking using? Is it fucking Vista? Point is I fucking snapped.
But I am keeping my vote on Tywin. I'm done flipflopping. Unless something else happens, I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
All of these circles, make a square.
All of these circles, make a square.
Just calm down. It's gonna be okay.

Stuff like this doesnt come off as genuine tho

About tywin wagon, some of his line looks like genuine frustrated town, even the self comment didnt comme off as forced to me, i once said and did that as town not so long ago with great success, i also was correct about my deathtunnel

I dont buy twin scum being this obstinated and going after you so hard d1

yo if im wrong on tywin im wrong, i want trans read on that tho, i bet my macaroni he will agree with me

just gonna VOTE: Cloud for that early interaction with Cabd; so awkward.

what more awkward is you voting me for first page posts when theres 50 pages of content and much more things to read into

Nos, can you work with me there and tell me whats your reads on the table ? youve been a blind spot null in my reads so far

Also tywin is obvious town and ill seriously reconsider anyone truthfully hardpushing that lynch, miring at you ssbm. Titus get a passe because shes the one who got antagonized

Sonia is having the very same read that i have on tywin and we are competent enough to read into it, titus is just biased

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

Titus, i honestly respect your reads as a whole but ure dead wrong on tywin, he was obviously frustrated and he had the same town thoughts process i had when i was unfairly hardfosed, you guys just had an arguement that escalated and you cannot be objective about it

In the above spoiler we have cloudkicker posts that I think matter. It's hard for me to format all of my thoughts as I'm permanently phone bound basically, but I'll try to sum up my feelings and reference post numbers and you can follow along with the above; all of ck's posts are in numerical order. I may jump around a little as my thoughts come out jumbled.


-----

Posts 127 through 133 are nearly entirely ck buddying sonia. He lays an rvs vote down for her but there's no real reason or push behind it. 148 is the closest we get to him stating that he scumreads her, but there's no reason. The closest was in 133 where he jokes that she didn't say hi so she's scum.

131 reads to me as if...he's got his jokey confidence that he's found a scum, like he's signaling to Sonia that he knows her. Especially considering that following all of this "ahahah, I gotcha" he switches to straight up buddying and cooperation with sonia. Post 195 is the weeniest flop over her alignment, there is no conviction here. There's never real conviction that she's scum.

He continually makes pointless commentary on a lot of what she does. There are a ton of posts I quoted that don't really need to be mentioned but you can see it for yourself up there.

Pine, you've been saying that cloudkicker was pushing sonia, but what I'm seeing here doesn't really play out that way at all in my view. He makes some rvs doodoo then switches gears to allying her. I see no serious push of a scumread. I don't see him gunning for a lynch and then giving up. If you want to see ck gunning for a mislynch, I'd expect him to be more adversarial...like the way he treats alisae in post 1231/1233/1241. That's ck pushing a mislynch, confirmed. That's not how he acts towards sonia.

....

I'm not going very in depth with this next part, but cloud scumreads titus in several places. I feel better about continuing to just write titus off as town and cabd gunsmith being legit, because I don't really feel like cloud would scumread scum-titus. (Posts 148, 172, 173, 338, 469, 1010, 1068)

^ with those latter 2, it feels to me like...cloud was feeling out a mislynch on titus and then when it seems it's not happening he 180's to town-titus later on. Like 1221 he finally just calls the whole thing tvt.


....


As previously mentioned by pine, cloud defends tywin at a few points

338, 469, 1601, 1842, 1070, 1072 = townreads tywin
1233, where he pushes against alisae, is in defense of tywin.

245/246 reads like a wink wink nudge nudge that he's signaling to sonia, and now tywin, that he's in the know, you know?

481 defending tywin from titus onslaught

And a bunch of other crap

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: A vomit of Nosferatu posts

Srsly though, can we play Mafia?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

why you tryna get serious 3 pages in smh

Is there a reason why he shouldn't?

yeah: its weird. Games usually get out of RVS at least page 5-6 usually around 10, but he's ripping everyone out of their comfort zone at page 3. To my understanding, scum are usually uncomfortable during RVS and it looks like he's trying to circumvent that completely by getting everyone out of RVS ASAP.

Cabd, I am at Lapsa AJ TL as stronger scumreads. Alisae uneases me, same with Uzi. Gamma might be scum.

Cloudkicker solid town. Pine and Sonia lean town. Nero is likely town, not by his content, but by the posturing in thread. Mozamis weak town.

Nostramus, gun to head town.

Be my soundingboard? Cloud, please chime in too.

Peace out until tonight.

Posts made by nos by thus point:

quack
VOTE: Alisae

alsjdlsakjdlsa

Titus what the fuck I thought you were town
How could you do this to me?

I'm just that good man

-long rant without punctuation-

Unreadable fyi, so if this is important, know I didn't read it.

Kyouko and Nos reads?

I think Alisae is sk, not liking tywin rn, and I doubt sonia killed cloudkicker. People who know each other irl are usually really good at reading each other, and I really don't think that Sonia wouldn't figure out cloud was a traitor if she was mafia.

No I expected Syr to shoot me.

what the fuck? Aren't YOU the vig? Why would Syr shoot the actual vig?

I am the vig.
But I thought he cud be vig to.
Idunno, maybe he no believe claim so he go pew pew and me ded?
That is if there is 2 vigs.
Maybe it's at the time I really did not understand his humor.

Was the question answered about where you learned mafia from

I also kinda want to put my moon logic thinking cap on and go, yeah, serial killers stab, would she have been thinking about guns as sk? Would a newb sk think "yeah I'm gonna crumb vig instead by making gun sounds hahaha"

Or am I insane?

so, what, as newb sk she crumbs vig by saying "stabby stabby"?

So I just multiquoted all of nos' posts mentioning/interacting with any currently living player. It's...not much. Guy made next to zero posts.

His awkward exploratory push on pine in posts 557/569 seems really contrived...I don't feel like he's pushing a scumbuddy there?

Post 1296 interacts with sonia but seems NAI to me

Post 2647 mentions a read on tywin and sonia. I don't know what to make of his sort-of scumread on tywin, but the defending sonia by creating a narrative wherein she wouldn't NK cloud....it sounds like he's defending his scumbuddy to me.

[Elbirn]

In conclusion:

Tywin and sonia are scum shits.
Pine and titus are townie towns

[Elbirn]

Well, Elbirn, you said it yourself. Cloudkicker starts out with some pretty heavy attacks on Sonia, which should themselves disqualify her from the scumteam, and then when it isn't happening, he switches to buddying her and trying to pocket her. That's like, proof positive that she's Town. She's my third-strongest TR after Titus and Gerry, and that's just because they have PRs clearing them.

But he doesn't atrack her. He flings weak sauce at her to get her attention like "hayy " during flimming *RVS* and then is her friend for all time. It doesn't happen at all the way you're saying. I even gave examples of what cloud does when he's genuinely pushing (alisae) and switching from pushing to giving up on a mislynch that won't go through (titus)

[Elbirn]

Dude would you shut the fuck up

[Elbirn]

Intent to permanently make tywin shut the fuck up

Really I was about to come in here and ask you to self vote so I could hammer but you beat me to it

[Elbirn]

Seriously it's just constantly whining like a little bitch followed by blatant lies.

I posted a big beautiful wall post and made Mexico pay for it detailing how the posts, words, and actions of dead scum implicate you, and you non stop shout from the mountain top that my reads are all garbage and based only on preflip associations. I GUESS CLOUD AND NERO HAVEN'T FLIPPED YET SILLY ME

[Elbirn]

Nero, talk to me about why sonia is scum and why you've voted for her. "She's not clear like at all" is not a reason.

Please and thank you in advance

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: A vomit of Tywin Lannister posts

UNVOTE

VOTE TITUS

OK, caught up.

Town: Me, Sonia, Cloud.
Pro town: SSBm, Elibirn, Pine

Null: Cabd, AJ, Uzi, Nero, Gamma, Transcend, Nosferatu

Pos scum: Twin, Lapsa, Alisea

Scum: Titus.

I like this list, minus me on the scum side. I also don't think Lapsa is scum. He's been pushing for Titus all game, and his early wagon was definitely scum fueled IMO.

My list:

Town: Cabd, SSBM, Cloud, Nero

Pro Town: Elibirn (see Uzi below), Sonia, mozamis, Lapsa

Null: Transcend, Gamma, AJ, Pine

Pro scum: Alisae, Nosferatu, Uzi (Uzi or Elibirn could change sides based on the flip of the other)

Scum: Titus

I read more town than scum atm, which could be a product of good scum or lurking scum. Nosferatu could definitely go lower in my list, but mainly due to lack of content/lurking than anything he/she has posted. I largely forgot they were in the game. I think that means scum more than town.

Gamma not posting much could also mean the same. Without knowing his scum meta though (not that it matters, beyond a reference point), my gut reads town. I will need to look at the vote count as I catch up to see whose on his wagon, but if it's Titus-led, then I don't like it at all.

Transcend hasn't done much at all. Idk his meta, but he's not posting real content. Ever. Why is this okay? Why give him a free pass to post nothing useful, but call gamma scum for doing the same? It's ridiculous. I think people town read Transcend only due to being friends over actually evaluating his alignment.

Uzi/Elibirn: I dont like the gladiator claim, but apparently fake claims in mafiascum meta is okay. Elibirn doubled down on it when others took it as a joke, but it's largely null. I do think fake claims are scummy and idk why it's okay in mafiascum, but it is what it is. Uzi/Elibirn could be TvT, but I think one of them are scum. Idk which one, but Titus has weak associations with either one. Her entire scum claim on me was my 'it's only fair' post asking for Uzi to give his reasoning on voting Elibirn. Then again, Elibirn could be scum and Uzi town. Neither are a good lynch today, so this whole point is moot.

I think it's clear I want Titus lynched. Doubt I need to explain that further. She's been all over the place in trying to push bad wagons. She isn't suspicious enough of Alisae buddying her so hard. She tries to wave off votes on her as bad, but never addresses the reasons they are there, and she isn't genuinely evaluating things the way Alisae constantly claims. If so, then she has some really bad reads IMO. Unless Titus is always this bad at being town, then I'm pretty dead set with her being scum here.

Ok, I'm caught up for the most part. I skimmed here and there, but it took an hour and a half to go from page 50ish to 80, so I feel like everyone skims in this game.

A couple people moved up/down my reads list, and for different reasons.

Scummiest players: Nosferatu, Lapsa, Lil Uzi, ssbm_kyouko

Nosferatu: lurking badly, yet only a couple of players have even mentioned Nosferatu all game. Scum lurkers tend to not be called out on D1, since obviously town forget they exist, and scum don't want to draw attention to it. It's 80 pages though. Lurking at this point is beyond ridiculous. I caught up 30 pages and haven't seen a Nosferatu post for ages. I honestly can't remember one, but they've never been prodded. This is a player that needs to be on people's radar.

Lapsa: I don't like the flip flopping, the lack of honest content, or the general feel I get from them. Lapsa could be just sarcastic town, but I can't name a time that he's ever truly tried sorting anyone. He called me 'Not touching: town' as Cloud pointed out, but voted me when my wagon looked a sure thing. He never gave a reason for it either, which I don't like.

Lil Uzi: General vibe I get from them, but I don't see Uzi as truly attempting to find scum. He's largely sheeped other opinions until very recently, and it just feels like the classic 'trying to skate by unnoticed' scum play rather than anything sinister. It's not a great case by any means, but I find him scummier due to that than I do Alisae. I see them as largely the same player, but Alisae I know is new. Lil Uzi isn't, so there's less excuses there. Aside from that, nobody has legitimately called him into question the way they have with Alisae, saying she's an SK or Traitor or Survivor... A lot of bad claims for D1. They never tried this with Uzi, and I don't really know why.

Ssbm_kyouko: I flip back and forth with him... His play doesn't seem the same as what I know townie ssbm does. His conclusions and reads seem off as well. The thing that flips me is that he genuinely seems to be trying. I don't agree with his theories or conclusions, but he's at least giving them. That's far more than I can say about the above three players.

D1 lynches are a crapshoot, but I'm okay with a Lapsa lynch. I'm also ignoring Titus here (I still think she's scum) for reasons. It derailed the thread too much, so I'll let it get sorted another day phase. I don't like the Titus/ssbm 3rd party talk about Alisae though. Town shouldn't be worried or care to sort a 3rd party on D1. We don't know if there is one or not. Scum would want to find a traitor, but why mention SK? If you need an SK for your l D1 theory to work, perhaps you shouldn't have a theory and just lynch scum 1 at a time.

So I like your reads list for the most part Kyouko, but why is Pine/Nosferatu in as null town? Have they said anything that would make you lean town, or is it just not knowing where to place them due to extreme lurking?

Votecount 1.10

Lapsa 7 (Pine, CloudKicker, Alisae, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko)
Titus 4 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister, Syryana)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
Tywin Lannister 1 (Lapsa)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting 3 (Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx, Elbirn)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is December 30 at 11 AM Eastern.

While the mod at least exists now, he will nonetheless be kinda-on-vacation for the next week.

Here is my hangup with Lapsa being scum... Namely a few SRS on the wagon. If Lapsa does flip scum, I can't see them all bussing here. It wouldn't make sense. AJ/Nosferatu/Sonia/Elbirn will need closer looks regardless. I get bigger scum vibes from Nosferatu/AJ than I do Elibirn/Sonia though.

So why hasn't anyone questioned Nosferatu on that Cloud vote? That just looks bad. AJ on Alisae over ever mentioning Uzi looks bad IMO. I'd assume they'd both be scummy in AJ's mind considering they both have done the same things (albeit to lesser degrees). I honestly like everyone on the Titus wagon, but that's not going to go through today. Sonia had kinda disappeared, so I don't know where to lean with her.

The real problem I have is that the Lapsa wagon contains enough SRs that it gives me pause, but nothing Lapsa has done objectively makes me think 'town' whatsoever. So it's my own bias due to SRs that make me uneasy about him more than anything else. If Lapsa is scum, then they can't all be scum with him. That's too many votes for a proper bus.

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

If Nos were scum with these two, his vote on Cloud seems very off unless he's catching up while placing it.
Like, it seems it would be super uncordinated with his scumteam.

He voted you when the Lapsa wagon first took off on page 2 or so. Lapsa had voted you too I believe.

And what's uncoordinated there? You think scum will all join the same wagon? I don't. Do you think they'll all bus unless it's a for sure lynch? I don't. The cloud vote looks bad, but it's a placeholder vote. It isn't meant to show conviction. It's not a real scum read. It's just there to have a vote while hopefully not draw any attention. Clouds not getting lynched clearly, so it's a wasted vote.

AJ: I'm not trying to tunnel you three into a team, but it's fine IMO to throw it out there. I like the Nosferatu vote currently. His flip doesn't correlate to your/Lapsa's alignment, but it's a starting point. Frankly, I think you lynch who you think is scum and go from there one at a time. There aren't any double lynches, and it's a waste of time to put a whole lot of stock into scum teams on D1. I still think it's a possibility, but that's not really worth investigating further until someone flips scum. So while I think you believe you caught me in a 'gotcha' moment, I don't agree. I'm not basing the entire game on conf bias trying to prove a team exists pre-flip like some of your TRs have.

VOTE: Nosferatu. I like this vote. I also see Lapsa being probable scum too, but I do feel like Nosferatu is a better bet. All the players on his wagon didn't sit well with me, and even if it was a scum bus, I don't think all scum are on it. I think Nosferatu needs to explain the throwaway vote on Cloud at the very least. It's pretty obvious that cloud isn't getting lynched today, and the reasoning (from what I remember) seemed really weak and pointless.

Yay, a wagon I can really get behind that doesn't make me question all my SRs in doing so.

Not properly caught up. But it's the old problem - if a wagon (Lapsa) builds up steam quickly like this, prob means there is scum on it. So I'm liking it less.
Much rather Titus, who I'm pretty sure is scum.

I think I've agreed with your reads this game, and I still believe in a scum Titus (inherently conf bias at this point though), but she's not gonna get lynched today. I think that's painfully obvious. I agree with your assessment of the scummish players on the Lapsa wagon too. That's literally the only reason it doesn't sit well with me though. I don't think Lapsa is town, but I definitely don't think Nosferatu is town when you really look at him and the context/timing of his posts. Knowing that there's day talk now (regardless of whether people disbelieve that I didn't see post 400 something for a while), Nosferatu just has some weird timing going on with his content. I need to do a real ISO, but I'm good with his wagon as it stands. I'm surprised it even gained votes tbh, but I like it. N1/D2 is always there to sort the other current scummy players.

Side note: still sick. I actually showed up to work and a couple managers took one look at me and sent me home. I guess that means I'll have time to invest in the game today. Don't think I'll be sleeping the whole day like yesterday, so I'll try to ISO Nosferatu and post a clearer case on him, since I'm mostly going off of memory atm. I should probably do the same for Lapsa to see if either is a better/worse wagon.

Lol, so it won't take long to ISO Nos. He has 17 total posts in an 80+ page game. He's never been prodded, and nobody has really looked at him much at all. I've seen scum pairs thrown out all over the place, but Nos always enters null/null town in any read lists people give. Is that a case of forgetting he exists, or is it due to scum not wanting him and his obvious lurking (while avoiding prod) to be noticed? Will follow up soon.

Speed of a wagon has never been AI of the wagonee. Mozamis might as well be saying Titus is on it, so I will not bus.

Also, not found of doing dual scum wagon nonsense. If both wagons are on scum, it fractures town and makes scum harder to lynch. If one is on town, it makes the one that's on scum harder to go through.

Pretty sure the way Tywin jumped onto this that it is just lurkerbait to save Lapsa.

Oh look, more shade throwing, with a bit of WIFOM for good measure.

I can do this too!

Pretty sure the way Titus hopes to derail the Nosferatu wagon without even looking into it at all is just scum hoping to avoid a buddy lynch.

@Titus: do you TR Nosferatu? If yes, why? If no, then why are you against the wagon?

I mean he will get prodded sometime before the 30th and have no choice but to respond. Isn't like Lapsa is being pro-town with responding to his wagon. I'm pretty sure he's scum too. I like the reactions against the Nos wagon though. People who are more than okay with a lapsa lynch are not with Nos? Why? Does one seem blatantly scummier? I say they're both scum really. Makes me question if there really is a multiball setup now, cuz why would scum be okay with bussing lapsa but not Nos?

I keep seeing 'If Tywin flips scum, Player X is town'. Well what happens when I flip town? Do you gain any info on my lynch at all? I feel like those that are stuck with me in their scum list aren't evaluating everything or everyone. It's stale. There never was a legitimate case on me. There wasn't even one for Lapsa either, aside from a general 'feel' on him. Nobody looks to be giving genuine evaluations of things outside of bad theories that don't hold up with flips.

Here's my point: what did we learn from the Lapsa flip? I learned that there's at least one scum on his wagon. It was pushed and pushed (like mine was) without reason. Nobody even questioned it. Nobody said 'wait, why is this going through so easily and without pushback?' What was even learned from it? Anything? We were down a townie and for no reason.

Then we have Alisae NK Uzi for no reason. She killed our cop. What did his flip tell us? Anything? If not, then why TF was Uzi chosen over original intended targets like nos? Nos' wagon was derailed fast. Scum didn't want it to happen IMO. Alisae was told not to shoot him by Syryana as well. She followed his prodding like a sheep. It got our cop killed. This is ignoring that a vigi shooting N1 is almost always a terrible decision. She's new so I ignore that, but for future reference: vigi's STOP shooting N1 unless it's an obvious scum kill. You'll almost always hit town, and since we HAD a cop, we lose at least one confirmed investigation. Alisae, you did scum's work for them. Why shoot Uzi? You said nos was your target originally. Why change? Why not shoot me? My flip would've given more info and not had wasted another town mislynch. Did you think about it before shooting Uzi? Or did you just listen to whatever Syryana told you with his vigi claim (which you didn't question at all???).

I feel like this game is full of people making suboptimal decisions and not thinking about the pros/cons of them. If you aren't sure whose scum and are after blood, why not go for the lynch/vigi kill that gives actual info to town to work with? Nobody seems to question this stuff and it's pretty annoying from my viewpoint.

Some flips that give info IMO: Sonia/Kyouko/me/Syryana

There's probably more, but start there if you're not going to think things through and try to use information from flips to find scum. Just lyching/vigi killing without thought is the worst idea possible. THINK before you act.

All that being said, I have another 20 something pages to catch up with now. This damn thread is annoying. I hope one of you has something new to add in the last 20 pages, because if not, I'll be even more annoyed that I wasted my time reading it. Stop posting useless crap if you've got nothing to add. I'd prefer wall posts from everyone right now over 97 pages. At least walls need general thought to create, rather than dumb one sentence posts saying nothing useful.

Nobody has even evaluated Pine due to his extreme lurking, and he's been as useless as anyone not named Nosferatu this entire game. He clearly pushes for mislynches based on the Lapsa wagon (and now mine), so nothing he's done has been pro-town. He says a lot of one liners like post 2431 above that add nothing to move the game forward, and he does not scum hunt ever. He would be the definition of scum IMO. If you want to hop on a wagon that gives no info by a flip, at least go on the one that is far more likely to be scum. Pine. He has nobody after him at all. That alone should tell everyone that something is wrong.

So I just caught up. There's nothing interesting whatsoever in the past 20 or so pages. It's all crap.

Town is shitting the bed here BADLY. It's like you're all playing like newbies. You all give the same shit reads, don't give legitimate reasons for them (the only reasons I see are for TRs, which mean jack fucking shit), and you all wagon townies. It's terribad. I pray that I'm shot tonight by Alisae so I can't be a part of this shit show. This thread is absolutely ridiculous. You guys need to relearn how to read players. I'm not joking.

Mozamis is OBVIOUS town. That's a BAD wagon. It's a fucking joke. What is the case on him? There isn't one!!! Wake the fuck up town. Learn how to play mafia. Jesus.

All the shit reads from Kyouko and Pine are pre-flip garbage based on me being scum. Titus still calls me scum without any actual evaluation. Cabd sits in a corner with popcorn. Nos wants to lynch an SK/maybe vigi over scum. Kyouko calls that lurking fuck town for it. Pine does Jack shit all game, every post is absolute garbage fluff, yet nobody questions him on it. Mozamis gives actually legit reads that make sense and gets a quick wagon for it. Alisae jumps on it due to not knowing how to play. Elibrin is obvious town and will be NK'd for it most likely. Titus has been useless the entire day. Gamma is obvious scum. Who am I missing? Anyone? Syryana... Probably scum since he hasn't reappeared since his fake vigi claim that our 'Vigi Alisae whose probably SK' won't call him out on. What else?

Honestly, this game is fucked. Scum will easily win. Town have no ability to give decent reads, and the amount of pre-flip garbage and useless theories constantly thrown out only prove that point more and more. This game is one of the worst town performances I've seen in a very long time. Scum aren't even playing well. They just don't have to do a thing. Town mislynch all on their own. Scum just hop on.

Again, mozamis is town. Lapsa's wagon I understood. He screamed scummy in his personality and play style. Mozamis screams town and you people wagon him for it. Why? Because you disagree with his reads. You disagree with his reads, because your own are absolute shit. This is seriously a learn 2 play issue. Some of you need to relearn the game or take a break from it. 100% serious here.

People who are probably town or third party (SK, or something stupid like survivor):

Titus
Cabd
Mozamis
Elibrin
Alisae (I don't care whether she's vigi or SK, she's not the lynch target under any circumstances)
Me (but who cares, I'm an easy mislynch tomorrow if Alisae doesn't shoot me)

Probably scum:

Pine
AJ
Gamma

Null but lean scum over town:
Nos
Kyouko
Syryana

Did I miss anyone?

Chew on that list. Mozamis is CLEARLY a scum driven wagon. It's terrible.

I want Pine lynched more than anyone, but since town won't give me that wish, I'll vote the other leading wagon in AJ, who at best is null and at worst is a useless scum fuck. Just saying.

VOTE: AJ

Alisae: please shoot me tonight. Otherwise, please shoot obvious scum Pine.

I'm not dead? And that scum Nos is? Nice shot Alisae.

Also, I think via DOES matter. D1, when Titus was pushing Lapsa's wagon after mine failed, I tried pushing Nos (Eliburn did as well), but nope... Titus had to have Lapsa! She's never once mentioned Nos all game. She's not the lynch today due to Cabd, but it makes Cabd suspect along with her.

Also, Kyouko is scum. He kept calling Nos town for no reason. I want kyouko's scummy head on a platter.

Actually, I wanna do this.

VOTE: Tywin

All hail the gods of VCA and truth.

If Tywin is mason, I will not be happy.

I'm going to give Tywin a chance to talk before jumping on his ass
VOTE: Nero

I'm not the Mason. That's what I didn't understand. Why didn't moz's mason buddy defend him? Wth?

I TOLD you all he was town though. I also said Nos was scum Day fuckin 1. You people need to listen to me for once. Alisae saved the game, with no help coming from our 'town leader' players like Titus and Cabd.

How can't I argue that you're shit town and that I've not been on town wagons? They don't correlate, and the second is a fact. The first is just an opinion, but one that's been proven correct so far this game. I'd say you were scum if Cabd didn't investigate you. I didn't see his flip before, so I suppose that clears you. Due to that, it means you're shit town instead of scum.

Also, I told you all moz was town, but I'm not the Mason. Why didn't his Mason buddy defend him? Can anyone explain that to me? How idiotic is that? Wtf? Mason was the last thing I'd think moz would flip based on how many of you were on his wagon, without anyone actually defending him. That's just ridiculous.

I'll catch up when I get home and reevaluate, since I just read Kyouko isn't the lynch for some reason. I'll find out why later. He did defend Nos and claim he was town though, which I find odd.

I also want to check the end of D1 and see who was against the Nos wagon, which was the counter to Lapsa's. I'm willing to bet that someone pushed hard on Lapsa over Nos there, and that player is probably scum.

Also, gamma, lol! You're clearly scum, so I'm not worried. Lynch me and three town wagons won't look good for you bud. You aren't cleared like Titus.

Also I really don't like Kyouko. Like I don't like how fucking easily he picked up those crumbs. Honestly I never did like Kyouko.

I like you a lot more for this, plus your shot on Nos. I won't even blame you for hammering me or the other two townies. You can't change the game as a voter. Not with this town play.

What I can say is that keep this mindset and go your own way. Don't follow what these people tell you all the time, because they legitimately don't know how to play any better than you do. If it comes down to Lylo, don't sheep their votes. Think for yourself and go from there. You're a much stronger player than you've given yourself credit for, and legitimately the only reason town hasn't lost yet. Don't forget that.

Also, Kyouko is scum. Idk why anyone said he's not a lynch target, but whoever did is probably scum too. Kyouko has been scummy af all game long, and there's legitimately no reason for anyone to TR him.

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine, CloudKicker, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko, Cabd, Syryana, Alisae)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx, Lapsa)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Try again tywin

I was also pretty clear on thinking moz scum but you know just keep lying about things

I've asked for two days now for someone to say why they thought moz was scum. I've never heard a peep.

Also, mod error on that nos wagon. I was on it too. Mod didn't see my vote. Didn't matter and wasn't brought up due to Lapsa getting lynched regardless, but I was also on Nos.

So you try again. Why am I scum?

Honestly Titus, if Cabd didn't somewhat confirm you (and I still believe there may be a loophole that makes you scum, but whatever), I'd have to consider you scum for your railroad of me. You've never bothered looking at my slot objectively. Not even once. You've never tried to consider that my play is so anti-scum in the way it's gone down, that it would literally be insane to believe I'm scum. Players like Nos do jack shit all game and skate by for it, and you guys have lynched town after town everyday, yet you can't seem to get over the fact that your reads are just WRONG. Why? Normally, the only conclusion is that you are scum, but with Cabd saying otherwise, it makes me wonder what exactly you are thinking this entire game. It certainly isn't about catching real scum. So what is it? Ego?

Your railroading of me is inherently anti-town and against the book on how to be a good townie. That's why I've consistently said you are scum, because your play in this game has been bad by all objective measures on what town should do. Railroading without reason, never being objective, conf biasing everything, ignoring town wagons, ignoring flips and what they mean, and ignoring half the players in the game for no legitimate reason... If this is how you play normally as town, I'll probably advocate for you to be a policy lynch from now on. I haven't seen you play like this elsewhere though, so I'm hoping this is just a really bad one-off. Otherwise, you're scum and Cabd fucked is with his claim. I really can't tell.

Kyouko, why have you ignored players like Gamma and defended obvious scum lurkers like Nos this entire game? Why go after Sonia when there are lurkers and useless players like gamma/pine playing? Why ignore those slots? Do you TR them? Just like nos?

Also, Don't down Alisae's judgement when she took out the only legitimate scum slot this game. You certainly didn't. The traitor slot isn't real scum in the same way as nos, and scum NK'd him.

Sonia was probably supposed to be implicated in the Cloud NK by scum. That was their plan I bet. Interesting how Kyouko brings her up again now that I'm hammered and old news. Cloud's NK implication didn't work due to him being the traitor, but scum didn't know that when they made the kill.

Don't sleep on Kyouko people. Gamma should go first though. I'm okay with either getting vig shot tonight though. Kyouko wanted desperately to find the traitor crumbs, not because he is town, but because his scum team wanted to avoid the NK there. That's why cloud wrote that post to Kyouko stating 'traitor will go to great lengths to crumb it to the scum team.' That was directed to Kyouko for a reason.

Kill him tonight if not gamma Alisae. Good luck!

Last reads:

Elibirn is still town sadly.
Alisae is def town. She's not SK.
Titus is confirmed so town, but FML do I dislike her play in this specific game
AJ is town. He questions things and reads.
Sonia is town. I didn't know she was on the nos wagon, and cloud's NK probably was to implicate her.
Nero is null but still more town than scum IMO. Pure gut read tho. I could be wrong.
Syryana's slot is town. Most likely the second Mason.

Gamma is scum, Kyouko is suspect. Pine is suspect.

Am I forgetting anyone? If not, there you go. Those are my reads.

Good luck, and sorry for the toxicity.

nah it's 6 to hammer Tywin, you're alive.
And like you did. Voting Kyouko. Not voting me. Voting me is stupid and sorta what got Nos shot.

Then I'm glad he voted you LOL. Idk why his team didn't tell him to stop though. Nobody thought you were scum. The talk was SK, not scum, and SK wasn't a good lynch even if you had admitted it. I lean vigi for you at this point. If you were the SK, I see no reason for you to not have shot me regardless of what you viewed my alignment to be. Town wanted me shot, so you'd have earned cred for it as SK. Shooting Nos pisses off scum and doesn't please town in the same way shooting me would have. I think that more or less locks you into the Vigi slot.

And regardless, you can still shoot me tonight if you want. I don't think it's Lylo if I die, and I am pretty confident that the scum slots are between Gamma, kyouko, pine, and to a lesser extent, Nero. I'm 100% positive there is at least one scum between gamma, pine, Kyouko though. The only reservation I have is Kyouko seems more town than gamma at least, but the cloud exchange with Kyouko, plus Kyouko consistently asking Lapsa and others about the traitor is damning evidence imo. I also disliked Kyouko going off on his tangent yesterday about you being SK and giving idiotic theories due to it rather than looking for scum. Even if you are SK, you're not a good lynch at that point (or now, or the future either really), so why he ignored scum slots and focused on the SK talk didn't sit well with me.

So I just realized what role Nos was. I never actually looked at the role, just saw the red. I was at work on a short break though.

What's a motion detector do? Is that like a scum watcher? I've never heard of the role.

Mother fucka if I gave reads yall ignore them

I wasn't on the 2 lynches on town
I was on the scum counter wagon
I wasn't the one who lynched the mason

Kiss my ass.

This is good enough to place Sonia into a town slot. Kyouko trying to frame her as being scum is ridiculous based on her VCA IMO. At the very least, there are better candidates than Sonia to be scum. Why hasn't gamma been lynched or grilled yet by anyone? Doesn't that strike you as odd? It's as odd as nos being ignored by scum and Kyouko calling him town for it. Again, Why has gamma not been called out by anyone? My guess is because his scum team obviously won't do it, and they will lead other wagons over him. I scum read gamma every game though, so I could be wrong. His play never strikes me as town though, and I think that's a problem. He certainly hasn't helped town scum hunt at any point this entire game. An ISO will prove that.

So again, why has everyone ignored gamma? Shouldn't he at least be sorted to make sure he's town? I can't think of a single player outside of myself who has really questioned gamma's alignment this entire game, and almost every other player has at least been called into question. Nobody has for gamma (aside from me), and I think that's a huge red flag.

pine is prob just bad town for that vote

Why is he just bad town instead of scum? Any townie with half a brain cell knows Alisae scum and not the correct lynch, even if they somehow believed she was the SK still. She's obviously not scum. She NK'd the only caught scum this game (not including the traitor who scum NKed themselves). So why is pine let off the hook here? You know who the last player was that voted Alisae over looking for real scum? Nos. Do you remember what he flipped?

I already pointed out that I don't have to live for town to win. I just hope town lynches gamma/pine/Kyouko after I'm gone, because aside from Kyouko, nobody seems to focus their attention on gamma/pine. That scares me at least, because in my biased opinion, they're the most obvious scum in this game. They won't even touch each other all game long. They won't mention each other, won't question them, SR them, or even TR them. They ignore each other like the plague. ISO them and find out for yourselves. Prove me wrong. Nos voting Alisae yesterday was a bad joke. Pine voting Alisae today is absolutely ridiculous play. Only scum look for an SK lynch over scum hunting. His post is SO obvious that I have to believe others have seen it. Titus coaching Pine over scum reading him is bad for town. Gerryoats calling Pine bad town over scum reading him is bad for town. You couldn't make this crap up if you tried. The guy is obvious scum here.

So again, if you're dead set on lynching me, fine. Town can handle the loss of a VT, but PLEASE look to kill Pine/Gamma/Kyouko after. It's so obvious to me. Why isn't it for others? I'm not sure what the hangup for everyone else is on voting scum. Stop calling them bad town and just admit they're likely scum already. Your reads in the past have all been wrong. Please listen to another opinion for once.

And Alisae, this isn't directed towards you. I know you pay attention. Nos is dead due to that. I'm speaking more to the other townies like Titus, Elibrin, etc.

Again, Pines vote on Alisae today is a scum tell. Nos did the exact same thing yesterday. Pine only unvoted when he got coached up by Titus to switch, and he gave an extremely contrived excuse for it. He absolutely ignores anything dealing with the other wagon in Kyouko and states he will jump his vote back on me. The fact that he won't even mention kyouko's name all game, plus Kyou never mentioning Pine.. That's also a scum tell. Scum avoid each other like the plague in-thread for a reason. Don't tell me you haven't noticed this pattern.

Gamma, Pine, and Kyouko have largely ignored each other to the point where it's ridiculous to assume they're all town, and their play lends itself to scum play styles. In my view, it's obvious. I don't understand how you could get a null read on gamma and still ignore him. I don't understand how you can TR pine after 110+ pages on Day 3. Some things just do not make sense here. Are you purposely ignoring those players? Do you honestly think scum don't lurk and contribute nothing like gamma/pine have? Nos did it ALL GAME. You have an example already. So why ignore the others? Do you truly believe all scum play like me? If so, I'd question your mafia experience. Scum always lurk and/or stay null. At best, only one or two scum are out in the open in every game.

At the least, I just want town to pay attention to players like gamma/pine. There is definitely something off with them. They are null at best, not town. Nothing about their past votes, posts, or opinions have been super town, and in most cases, they've proven to be anti-town. Please stop ignoring players in the game and pay attention. Active, talkative people aren't the only ones in this game, and Nos proved the age old theory that scum like to lurk and contribute as little as possible. They never move games forward, and you cannot honestly say pine or gamma have even once progressed the game state in a positive way for town.

Just be aware, that's all I ask.

Sonia, tell me why I should townread you.

She voted nos and hasn't been on any town lynches. That seems pretty obv town to me, but I'll let her speak.

That read list by gamma is really bad lol. Idc if he calls me scum, since that seems to be common with everyone in the game besides
Alisae (funny how nobody looks at that and wonders why scum would also call me scum if I was on their team), but him putting Sonia there is just bad. Her point about voting Nos and never being on a townie wagon was a very good one. Nos' wagon was counter to towns, and scum didn't need to go there. There was no reason to buss Nos on D1, so I think that makes Sonia pretty obvious town.

I like this though. Gamma's reads pretty much solidify my thoughts on him being scum. Scum this game keep trying to go after either easy lynchbait (me) or discredit obvious town like Alisae. Sonia is also pretty high on the TRs for anyone that actually looks at it from a town point of view, so when Kyouko and Gamma go after her, it also shows their connection. Pine going after Alisae, which Nos also did, shows their connection. I think scum have made the mistake here of continuing to go after the easy town lynchbait rather than ever reevaluating the game after things like Nos' flip. Any smart town would see the Nos flip and know who to peg as town due to that, so going after Sonia and Alisae just seems like bad reaching. They also obviously won't call each other scum, so it just proves my point I think.

I'm happy with my reads.

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

He's scum for other reasons, but the most recent one was his vote on Alisae earlier today. Alisae is all but confirmed to not be scum after the Nos NK. Voting Alisae is so anti-town that there's no excuse for it. He also has ignored kyouko's wagon entirely (not even acknowledging its existence at the time), which makes me think they're a team. Do you know who also voted Alisae claiming she was the SK over actually trying to vote scum? Nos.

Since you aren't convinced about Pine, then give your reasons for TRing him. I'm curious to see why anyone would. At best, he should be a null read based on his content and votes (always on town). He pushes for town wagons and then when we get a scum flip due to Alisae's NK, he pushes for her lynch. Damning IMO

The fact that scum have all wanted to lynch me from day 1 should be obvious to everyone, but it isn't for some reason. Only town have ever defended me, and they're all dead. Scum killed them. So who exactly do you people think my partner(s) are? Nos wanted me lynched, but whatever, I'm talking about current scum players. Who are they? Why have they wanted to lynch me so badly all game?

Try using your damn brains for once. Even if I was scum, which I'm not, there'd be more scum than me. Figure that out and figure out WHO or WHY without using pre-flip associations that will be wrong after I flip town. The fact is, you've all used those pre flip associations twice now, and both times, you've fucking looked like shit players for it, since none of you had any idea who else to go after due to never even once scum hunting without pre flips.

This is the best day ever. All three of my SRs have had wagons today.

I think everyone can agree that gamma is scummy af. Kyouko was always the iffy one IMO out of pine/gamma/Kyouko. Gamma always seemed to be the obvious one.

If we are going there, I'm joining along. This gives me lots of hope in town that gamma is finally getting noticed. It's the best news I've seen since Nos got NK'd. Pine's post crying about Alisae being a vig was great too. Even gamma had no choice but to call it scummy. I feel like things have been solved here. It's also funny that everyone who goes against Alisae has more or less outed themselves as scum and gets wagoned for it. I think that will go down as the game loser for scum. Whoever decided that scum should shade Alisae really miscalculated.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Lylo, but whatever. I'm not scum. I don't even care anymore though.

Pine is obviously scum. Idk the other one. AJ probably.

Whatever. What was the mod error? Was I supposed to die instead? Not like it matters, since I'll be lynched today and that will be game. Only town left are Titus, Gerry (whose slot was so bad that they let their Mason partner die), maybe Sonia, and me. Scum have to be Pine and AJ, unless Sonia was bussing Nos D2.

Also, before you bad townies quicklynch me with scum and lose the game, a mass claim is usually a better idea first. Not doing it in Lylo is idiotic. Learn how to play mafia Gerryoats, since your fucking confirmed town. SMH

I realize useless players like Gerry won't care and will lose the game without thought, but Titus/Sonia may want to consider the mass claim first.

Also, have you geniuses ever thought that I was left alive to be the lylo mislynch all game? Kinda obvious, but the wagon restarts every day phase. It's as if none of you know how to use your heads. Pine is obvious scum (I should've gotten him lynched yesterday, but gamma looked worse being so fucking useless), but AJ played a good game. Pine is bad, but he got helped by worse town. Oh well. Good game scum. If pine somehow flipped town, I'd have to concede that town had no chance with players like that doing nothing all game. Not a single worthwhile post has ever been made by Pine all game, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt by saying he's scum.

And
VOTE: AJ

Mass claim or don't, but the loss isn't on me if you quicklynch in Lylo.

I lied I haven't gotten to shower yet but I also haven't done shit. In a minute.

Tywin, why do you townread sonia again?

She voted Nero D2 as the counter wagon to obv town maz, when Nero wasn't in a situation that needed bussing by scum. I thought that was obvious? Do you not read the game at all?

Also, don't call my statements AtE. I'm not appealing to anyone. I'm resigned with a town loss, because it doesn't look like the confirmed town ever even try to find scum all game. Without Alisae at least pushing the conversation forward about the less-than-obv town players (nice way of calling gamma/pine useless), I don't think town stands a chance. There's no appeal here. It's just my honest assessment.

If there ARE 5 total scum (4 + traitor) then we lose regardless. I don't see town banding together to lynch scum 3 times in a row. It just isn't happening, so it has to be 2 scum left or there's no point. If there are only 2 left, mislynching me doesn't end the game. Tomorrow will be Lylo, but that's not my problem at that point. Otherwise, I don't see a win path here for town. That's just my honest opinion.

What actually pisses me off though are players that are basically confirmed, like Gerry, naked voting me and not even caring that it is possibly mylo. If it IS mylo, a mass claim is necessary. Never let scum quicklynch in that situation, so him blindly voting me is just bad play. Pine I assume is scum, so idc what he does. His naked vote without reason has been the same since D1, so there's nothing new there.

Anyways, my point is that I don't think it's mylo, since i can't see how the game would've been balanced with 4 scum and 1 traitor. If that is the case, I don't see a town win in any event. It just isn't happening. Pine and company could literally tell everyone 'hey I'm scum!' and half the players would ignore it and vote elsewhere. There's no leadership or even a town bloc for cohesion, so I don't see town having a chance. Aside from that, since I assume there are only two scum left, i don't completely care if I'm lynched. Tomorrow will be Lylo, but at least the easy derp wagon on me can't materialize in Lylo.

It also annoys me that there hasn't been a case on me like... Ever. None of you have ever demanded one, so scum are never held accountable. I have had no real backing all game aside from Alisae yesterday, so my opinion and demand for people to be responsible with their votes always goes unheard. In my biased opinion, that is a very, very damning thing for the confirmed (or pretty damn close to it) town players to not have forced. Even if Titus or Gerry truly believe I'm scum, they should demand a case from others and give a case themselves. I was obviously wrong about gamma and Kyouko, but at least I consistently gave reasons for my belief in SRing them. I've yet to see any reasoning for anyone to SR me past the D1 Titus thing saying I lied (I didn't), so it should be obvious that my wagon is scum driven every single day. At least, I think it's obvious, but whatever anyone believes, more info is ALWAYS good, so without demanding voted to have reasons and accountability, there's absolutely no way town had a chance this game. That reflects on town in a bad way. I hope it's a lesson learned for future games. Some things should always happen in games, and one is to demand reasons/cases for votes outside of RVS.

My $.02

EBWOP: typo above. Sonia voted NOS (not Nero). I meant to say Nos.

I'd like nothing more than for me to be lynched and then Pine/Elibrin to be next after my flip. Pine is for sure scum, not only due to his obvious scum tells all game, or his idiotic thought process that literally makes no sense, but also because he would be the one to NK Alisae over anyone else in the game. He was on her list and knew it. He knew Kyouko/gamma/me were town, so it was natural for him to die tonight after my lynch had she still been alive.

Elibrin's reads have been wushy-washy trash all game, he hammered town without waiting for a claim, has been on every town wagon except gamma's, and all his reads are clearly based on me flipping scum. He doesn't even question it. He gives no hypotheticals of me being town, and he has no backup plan in place in case I do flip town. He associates shit Cloud posted with town players to shade them, and he ignores obvious scum tells from players like Pine for no apparent reason.

I honestly think these two are scum after the recent posts of theirs, so my flip is necessary I think to give weight behind that thought.

Titus: I know you want Nero, but when I flip town, would you look more closely at Pine/Elibrin in Lylo please? If they survive, and I'm positive they will, please kill one of them if you aren't NK'd tonight.

Sonia: same thing

Idk about AJ/Nero, but at least I can see them being town. They haven't been overtly scummy in the same way Pine has in almost every post of his.

I think Elibrin would've been NK'd by now if he was town. I'm less worried about him than Pine, since one is a sure thing. I think he definitely could just be bad at reads based on my one past game with him. He called a scum player confirmed scum before he got lynched, so that alone shows me he's maybe just not good at this.

Pine I think is obv scum. Said it all game, and I have no reason to think otherwise. He's been the scummiest player all game. He lurked like crazy all of D1. All he did was prod dodge like classic scum (Nos cough cough). He's always voted town, never even suspected scum players like Nos, and every single thought he gives is shading obv town in hopes of getting them lynched (mozamis, Alisae, now me). He is scum. Plz look at him first tomorrow.

In the meantime, plz vote me Titus/Sonia/AJ/Nero so that you guys can wagon pine/Elibrin in Lylo.

Christ this boy can talk. I'm not even gonna try to parse this for you guys. I just figured out how to search in page on mobile, so I multiquoted every post that with the word "nos" In it. Some posts are excluded because they're not important or not actually him talking about nos. Some posts are out of order because I realized later on that "wait that post IS important" and went back and multiquoted it.

This was just something I did while at the laundromat just now. Draw your own conclusions.

Things I noted while doing this

1. Tywin really, really didn't like nos
2. But he also pivots aways from him day 2? Continues to scumread him but votes aj instead
3. He's also really concerned with giving himself and sonia towncred for voting him instead of Lapsa day 1
4. Uses nos interactions to judge errybody as town/scum

Some of these things are fine and some make me squint

[Elbirn]

I don't think that Cloud buddying her doesn't mean that she isn't scum. But why would she kill him if he was buddying her? Cloud knew her and its not crazy that she'd be worried that with their familiarity that he'd start scum reading her. Also scum need dead bodies and most everyone was town reading him.

Wouldn't the mod tell us if scum have daytalk or not?

didn't you do this exact same thing as scum one time?

Sure did never got my answer so I'm asking again.

I also should have pounced on this but I got distracted. (THANKS Titus and SSBM!) She's also being a lurksack right now and I think that's pretty likely to come from scum her.

Well I've been saying that a traitor buddying her seems suspicious, not townie.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying with that quoted post, like it's a slip? Walk me through it like I'm a child.

Anything else?

[Elbirn]

Hey tywin remind me again, cuz I forgot. Have nos and cloud flipped yet?

[Elbirn]

No seriously though, we're going to thoroughly evaluate this game, which includes trying to deduce your alignment as well, which is what I've been trying to do. Or maybe you'd rather to continue to bitch about how no one is playing the game correctly (while I'm trying to) and how no one is going to honestly attempt to evaluate you (when I'm doing so) and how there is no case on you one way or the other (when I and others have posited reasons for reading you) and what theories there are rely on preflip associations (when I'm looking at flipped scum as evidence to help determine your alignment)

[Elbirn]

Tywin I'll hammer you when we're all done talking. Now please shut the fuck up about how no one will hammer you. You're dying today. Okay? But we have a 2 week deadline to discuss and find scum, and we are going to use it. And if you're town, I'd expect you to be making in depth cases and reads for us to look over when you're dead. If you flip town and your words resonate with me I'll sheep the fuck out of you in lylo, if it means you'll stop being so toxic today. Alright?

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Sonia

[Elbirn]

I just double checked and everyone's been here since tywin self voted himself to l-1

If he's scum, where's his buddy with the hammer for towncred? *sips drink*

[Elbirn]

Oh lord the fuck UNVOTE:

Slippery fuck

[Elbirn]

PEdit: Scum who hammer their buddy for Towncred deserve to lose.

So what's scum-Tywin's angle here? Is it just pure ate hoping we back off? If I were scum-tywin doing what he's doing right now I feel like it'd be to prop up my buddy

[Elbirn]

i dont tr pine anymore

Talk to me about it plz


Also I was gonna think about this game but screw you guys I'm gonna watch anime

[Elbirn]

titus show me why VC suggests that. also, you think nero is maf right?

6 on Elbrin, 5 on Lapsa

Please properly elaborate and case this instead of repeating your chant of "4 legs good, 2 legs bad". As it stands no one knows what you're arguing. Thanks in advance.

[Elbirn]

@Tywin

I've double checked pines posts to be sure, and at no point does he "practically beg people not to vote nero". At all. There is also no exchange of posts between pine and nero like you claim. You're now giving him shit for voting for you after spending the better part of the day repeatedly insisting that he vote for you and that if he doesn't he's scum.

I've tried reaching out to you lately to see if you'd maybe calm down and do something protown, but instead you continue to flail and lie. I'm even trying to find evidence of you being townie town but you keep playing the scum fuck.

[Elbirn]

At no point have I lied.

Then you must live in your own fucking reality, donald.

You come in and make deliberate exaggerations, half truths, lies, and blatantly make things up. Then when I call you out on it you go "well that's how I interpret it". You did the same thing before when you claimed pine was whining about the nos nightkill, and when I showed you weren't even close and were just straight up making shit up you laughed it off. The only one misrepping and being a sneaky bitch is you.

But by all means, go ahead and try to convince me that I'm scum, because that makes so much sense.

[Elbirn]

Elibrin may be his buddy for constantly defending & chainsawing for him, but I'll post why I think that when I can get on my laptop tonight and search for the quotes. It's really hard to do on an iPhone.

Or maybe it's because (hold on to your hats) he's a townread of mine

And he's being attacked with stupid bullshit by a scumread (you)

Furthermore,

"Waah everyone's using preflips against me"

"Omg these two are paired guys "

FLAIL MORE
L
A
I
L

M
O
R
E

[Elbirn]

Yeah, no, when you spew stupid bullshit I'm going to tell you that it's stupid bullshit.

And if I were scum and I'm so #mad I didn't pull off lynching you then *why is it that I didn't hammer you earlier*

Oh wait, you scumread that too because your brain is a pile of noodles

Dude you know what? You think I'm scum? Vote me or shut the fuck up. Vote me or go back to voting yourself.

[Elbirn]

Do I really need to give a play by play of how fucking stupid that all was or is everyone with more than a handful of brain cells good?

[Elbirn]

No like I legitimately don't have the energy to argue with the mountain of shit that was. You just keep saying so much garbage that refuting it becomes a mind numbing chore.

Like where do I start pointing out the lies and misreps? Maybe where you said I hammered 3 townies? Or there were the posts that you either made up nonsense or demonstrated that you have the reading comprehension of a small child, example 2298 where you make the claim that I was calling you versus pine tvt...when you versus pine didn't even exist yet and I was talking about you versus titus day 1.

Oh whatever the flying hell fish 2489 is. Did you huff glue before you wrote this? You say moz is questioning my pine townread and I refuse to answer and respond with mockery instead. What actually happened was moz listed all the people on the Lapsa wagon and then called me scum and then I mocked him. Where are you getting any of your analysis from? Your interpretations of events are so fucking disconnected from reality that it's making my head spin like holy hell.

And that's what that whole thing is. It's nonsense, lies, misreps, more nonsense, scum-painting my every move, and you hoping that if you shout the loudest and act the most indignant you'll be listened to. You debate like donald trump.

And all of this? And you still haven't voted me. Why ever the fuck not?

[Elbirn]

4031 is the SECOND time ALL GAME Elibirn has interacted directly with Pine. Two times all game... for his TOP town read since his FIRST post. Does this NOT look scummy af to anyone else? Please tell me why if it doesn't. Also, this clearly shows Pine/Elibrin strategized to make me the lynch, and he's also shaded Sonia for TRing me here. This post also shows that Elibirn has never had a reason previous to this to SR me or vote me, and he is 'attempting' to sheep Pine's reasoning here. This proves Elibirn is a liar and never truly SR read me. Proof:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Pine: I'm going to go through CK's iso when I can and see if I see what you see. My belly-feels still feel good about tywin/sonia team.

When we lynch Tywin and he flips red, i'll go over why exactly you thinking me and him are buddies is really dumb, if necessary, but lort pine don't do this to me just lynch scum

I agree that CK analysis is crucial, overall we all haven't been playing smart. I even said I wanted to start playing smarter and then proceeded to do fuck all about it. Today we start playing mafia 4 real. CK and nos analysis is key. I'll also be looking at tywin and Sonia under a microscope while I'm at it.

I think we should figure out why CK was night killed. Before I'd have said he was killed for having on point reads, but now that literally everyone he's voted for has flipped town, *shrug shoulders, fart noise* so it must be something else. Scum doesn't kill for nothing.

I'm going to stop at 4032, because this is the first time Elibirn has ever posted a case, and it was clearly done with Pine talking him through it in their scum daytalk. The original strategy of scum Pine was to lurk as much as possible along with Nos. When Alisae claimed, they tried to shade her into being the SK and both voted her there. They never once looked for actual scum, but the SK talk was their excuse to not do so. That alone is scummy AF. In 4032, it shows that Elibirn has never actually SR me the entire game until this point, so everything before that was fake, lies, and sheeping off of his scum buddy Pine.

Like, how am I supposed to respond to this? I agree to do more analysis...so that means I'm lying. About ever having thought anything.

Uh huh.

And then post 4032 (a post made by titus) is actually secretly my post and it contains a case. A case that pine talked me through in our secret lair. Based on...fairy dust and make believe.

But regardless, the fact that I didn't have a wall of text case posted until I (in the guise of titus) posted my invisible case in post 4032 means that I must not have thought he was scum up until that point. Because, you know. If I did think he was scum I would have made post 4032 (as titus, don't forget this is crucial) a few thousand posts ago. Or something.



Tywin I want to come out of the game for a minute and talk to you on a personal level. If you're town, please don't sign up for a game I'm in ever again. You are genuinely unpleasant.

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

I was gonna hold this so I could quick hammer you and keep you from being a slippery fuck again, but I haven't the strength. I'm done. My vote sits here until you're dead and I'm not doing jack shit until that happens.

[Elbirn]

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

, Titus,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert,

ssbm_Kyouko,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx,

Lapsa

)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain,

mozamis

, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (

Nosferatu

)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 2.F

mozamis 8 (Titus,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Alisae

, Aj The Epic, Nero Cain, Elbirn)

Aj The Epic 3 (Elbirn,

Cabd

, Tywin Lannister)
Tywin Lannister 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)
Alisae 1 (

Nosferatu

)

Not Voting 1 (Syryana)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Syryana will have to respond to a PM from me by night's end or I'll be forced to replace him.

Votecount 3.F

Gamma Emerald 6 (Aj The Epic, Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain,

Alisae

, xSoniaNevermindx,

ssbm_Kyouko)

Tywin Lannister 2 (

Gamma Emerald

, Pine)
Nero Cain 1 (Titus)

Not Voting 2 (gerryoat, Elbirn)

Golly so who was the other townie I hammered

While I was busy body switching with Titus I must have swapped with Alisae day 1, or pine day 3, that was clever.


I'm getting #TrolledHard right now aren't I

[Elbirn]

Oh look, the scum gave up. Guess he can't handle my wall of truth. Kinda hard to fight something when everything is laid out right in front of you, isn't it? At least you admit that you were wanting to hammer a third townie without reason this game. I accept your surrender scum.

Vote me you cuck

[Elbirn]

The thing is, Elibrin got away with hammering OBVIOUS town for the second time in a row there, without a claim.

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine,

CloudKicker

, Titus,

Gamma Emerald

,

Lil Uzi Vert,

ssbm_Kyouko,

Cabd

, Syryana,

Alisae

)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx,

Lapsa

)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain,

mozamis

, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (

Nosferatu

)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 2.F

mozamis 8 (Titus,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Pine,

Gamma Emerald

,

Alisae

, Aj The Epic, Nero Cain, Elbirn)

Aj The Epic 3 (Elbirn,

Cabd

, Tywin Lannister)
Tywin Lannister 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)
Alisae 1 (

Nosferatu

)

Not Voting 1 (Syryana)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Syryana will have to respond to a PM from me by night's end or I'll be forced to replace him.

Votecount 3.F

Gamma Emerald 6 (Aj The Epic, Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain,

Alisae

, xSoniaNevermindx,

ssbm_Kyouko)

Tywin Lannister 2 (

Gamma Emerald

, Pine)
Nero Cain 1 (Titus)

Not Voting 2 (gerryoat, Elbirn)

Golly so who was the other townie I hammered

While I was busy body switching with Titus I must have swapped with Alisae day 1, or pine day 3, that was clever.


I'm getting #TrolledHard right now aren't I

I mean not even bringing up the fact that blaming the moz hammer on me is bullshit when I've never, not even once, seen a mod that counts unbolded votes and I'd brought up Nero's vote before hand, even if we want to say that's my fault, who's the other townie I hammered? I'm not seeing it. Was there a secret day 1.5 where i murdered someone not in this game or something?

Are you just going to keep shouting the same blatant lies over and over again thinking that everyone is too stupid to pick up on them?

[Elbirn]

Oh, you only hammered one town, voted the other, and then thought you hammered me. I saw transcendent's post showing those on the Lapsa wagon, and with your name last, I assumed it meant you hammered.

Oh so you admit that you have the reading comprehension of a kindergartener, fascinating.

And continue to do so, as I was only on one lynch wagon, not two, but you know what are numbers to winners like you, you're gonna win so much you get tired of winning, big league. Build a yuge win and make Mexico pay for it because you have the best brains.

Yeah Donald you keep taking a mental diarrhea and insist that I'm the idiot. Go right on ahead. Keep painting me as the idiot who doesn't know how to play when I'm the guy with like a 60-70% win rate. But somehow you have Magick knowledge that I don't and everyone tells me to go to the newbie queue or something. Enjoy your fairy land.

Why haven't you voted me yet?

[Elbirn]

Anyone who votes Tywin will be in the lynch pool for tomorrow. IDC if i tr you or not. Unvote him.

*almost trips, catches self*

Whoa! Almost gave a fuck there for a second.

[Elbirn]

I'm not having fun.

[Elbirn]

It's off to the races for who can be more of a moron!
Pine's in the lead with his flipflop gameplay and awful voting
oh wait here comes Elbirn with the most forced posting in the world it's a tight race folks!

Let's try you instead.

Hi sonia how are you? I hope we can talk like normal people and not hate each other

I'd like to hear why you think my posting is forced, contrived as it were. Share with everyone why you feel this way plz. Do you think I'm scum? Etc.

Your reply is awaited with bated breath, mon friere
<3, Elby

[Elbirn]

I would vote any of Nero Aj or Pine without a single regret
I do think Elb is VI at this point his play doesn't make sense as scum to me

Darling sonia, please explain what makes you think I'm a dummy dumb dumb. You have hurt my emotions and I may weep and fall into despair

[Elbirn]

Yeah we can't really do anything when conftown decide to powerlurk or otherwise do fuckall

Sometimes I honestly sit here like "Titus is literally scum" and then have to stop thinking that thought because if she is scum we've already lost because she can't be lynched, and if she is town then me thinking otherwise does nothing but sow discord and piss everyone off

But I've never seen here like this. Even when shes scum she puts in *some* effort. This feels like she knows she doesn't have to do anything to win so she doesn't. And all I can do is post my wild conspiracy theories for "I told you so" cred if she is scum.

Gerry I'm not mad at or anything but I do kinda want him to say a lot more words about stuff, and his trying to dictate that only aj/nero are acceptable when I want tywin/sonia is like damn man at least give something to chew on, tell me WHY those two. Talk to me about your thoughts. Your conftown, you're a god dammed national treasure.

Or like he says he doesn't tr you anymore pine? And I ask him to explain why? And he don't respond. Talk to me. This game makes me sad, make my brain smile.

[Elbirn]

I just can't imagine titus being bored by being conftown. She loves to lead. She's super confident business lady who run the world (girls) who run the world (girls). Why doesn't being conftown make her the most super duper leader of all time. We have wrecked scum teams before with our powers combined. Like why.

I can accept your words and just shutup about this but I'm going to frown at her for the rest of the game. The sad, crying kind of frown, not even the "you disappoint me" frown.


*shuffles awkwardly, kicks a pebble* so uhm....Do you wanna talk about aj or nero? My gut likes them but if I keep yelling about tywin im gonna die inside

[Elbirn]

Oh its fine to call me dumb unless you're tywin, but we're gonna have a pleasant discussion about why you're saying so.

You were doing a little discredit earlier by calling my posting forced, but then later flipped to saying I was town, albeit dumb town. So I'm confused exactly to your stance on me, but more importantly I want to know what made my posting feel so forced.

I'd also reaaallly like to know why you say tywin is obvtown. Show me the light and I'll repent

[Elbirn]

Titus can you talk to me about why sonia is 100% off the table for you? I am in need of guidance if I'm to stop confbiasing the sonia/tywin scumbuddy theorem

[Elbirn]

Also titus it won't be a fruitful discussion now but post game I'd like to ask about why you don't enjoy being conftown. Also also I'm sorry for being a dick head all game. Also also also I'm sure someone else already said this and I suddenly lost all reading comprehension abilities but I'm pretty sure traitor doesn't have a gun, so that would be like a false positive (alisae) and a false negative (cloudkicker), and if there's a second false negative out there on top of that then I don't even care at that point, it's the mods fault. So you're town and i'll bugger off.

[Elbirn]

Not really, no, but I've got tunnel vision on sonia/tywin. So the fact that titus has sonia as 100% lock town is like...why? I wanna talk about it. Cloudkicker was also kinda antagonistic towards nero and that doesn't strike me as very partnery

At any rate don't badger me dude

[Elbirn]

Kind of dicey. I work 4pm until midnight eastern time, and while I sometimes check my phone its no guarantee I can have a whole dialogue/convo cuz I do have to work

[Elbirn]

@tywin:

Spoiler:

I'm really busy at work so not really a lot of time to get into this

But in short.

Pine: I've just been happy with his content. He seems to have been making solid efforts to sort players, both as town or scum (his analyzing of cloud kicker to come to conclusions re: kyouko/sonia/nero/you, for example, even if I didn't really agree with say the sonia analysis after doing my own read through.)

He's got ~☆effort☆~, and yeah okay scum can do effort but shutup he's town. I play this game by sense of smell, no matter how dumb that may be, and he smells like town.

It also doesn't hurt that the arguments against him are coming from someone I scumread, and all appear to be...disingenuous. like, dude, we could be living in a universe where pine is scum and you are town, and I still couldn't be on your side because your method of arguing just doesn't work for me. If we're sitting in post game and Pine was scum and you were town, I'd still be telling you you were wrong. Cuz your arguments are, in my interpretation, a whole lot of lies, misreps, ate, and sometimes moonlogic that could make mama titus proud. I know you apparently think I'm a dumbass, but for real I'm not a stupid guy. And I don't grok the supposed scum tells and slips you're seeing. And peppering them with bs and bluster just turns me off

And let's segue into....

You/Sonia:

And a lot of why I scumread you is the irrational and disingenuous arguments that I'm seeing here. I basically have to reach one of two conclusions: you don't make sense to me because you're dumb, or you don't make sense to me because you're scum and that's why your mindset is incomprehensible. I've picked the less offensive conclusion.

It doesn't seem like there's a legit reason for pine scum, and it really does feel to me like he's just been your pegged mislynch.

If you can dazzle me with a sensical argument other wise I could even be willing to repent and praise your good name, glory unto the highest all hail tywin etc. Maybe I'm wrong and I've been a town beard all day, But I don't see that in what you've said so far.

Secondly, as I've mentioned before, there are hints towards your/sonia alignments dropped by cloud and nos. I posted that earlier and kinda don't want to rehash it because I should be working and my coworkers are staring at me funny for being so lazy. But yes, that.

(I've been typing this bullshit for hours with the spare seconds between accounts god shit)

Nero:

Nero isn't a townread. If I weren't trying to put your head on a stake before lylo, I could vote him.

Like this is the shitty spot I'm in. I think you need to die. I can't deal with you being in lylo. I will literally quickhammer you and accept the consequences whatever they are. You can't keep living the way you've played and the interactions you've got and my heart telling me you're a dirty bubble.

But I have absolutely no interest in nero living, and that shitty non-opinionated spot is so often where scum live.

But we've already lynched like 3 townies in a row on the basis of "yeah I don't care if they die really".

Like if we could just kill you/nero/sonia I'd think the game is solved and town win but we don't have 3 kills, we have two. And I don't 100% know that both scum are in there. Maybe I'm wrong on everything idfk.

I've babbled a lot and said nothing I'm just gonna submit this post before I babble any more

I had to put this all in a spoiler cuz it was so much stupid garbage that meant nothing I didn't even realize how much I said cuz I was at work and just kept saying things in between whatever words I don't wanna speak anymore send help time for Teletubby bye-bye time for Teletubby bye-bye

[Elbirn]

Tywin can I ask you a question?

[Elbirn]

Shock and awe, I want the compulsive liar dead.

Please please please talk to us about sonia. I really want to know why she's town. Convince me.

[Elbirn]

Why did the game just stall to death

Send help

[Elbirn]

Because people don't answer questions

Yeah...

Do you have questions for me aj? Any thoughts or something?





So lonely :c

[Elbirn]

Because people don't answer questions

Yeah...

Do you have questions for me aj? Any thoughts or something?





So lonely :c

Let's play the game of 'if tywin flips town...' for a moment.

Then what?

*shrugs eternally* nero and sonia then, I guess.

I wrote you off as town earlier for some reason and idk I just don't think it's you. Don't think it's pine either. PoE leaves those two and honestly I'm so demoralized at this point I hardly even want to think about this game any more than that.

[Elbirn]

I mean I did posit reasons for you-scum earlier today but yeah sure

[Elbirn]

Shock and awe, I want the compulsive liar dead.

Please please please talk to us about sonia. I really want to know why she's town. Convince me.

I cannot convince scum their mislynch is town.

You can suck directly on my asshole. I really can't believe how much of a miserable bitch you've been this entire game and I genuinely don't like you anymore.

[Elbirn]

Why did the game just stall to death

Send help

Smh, just stop posting. Common sense clearly isn't your strong suit. This post alone makes me strongly believe you don't know what you're doing at all.

I don't know what I'm doing because I'm calling for people to talk and discuss

You can also fuck right off

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Nero

And lynch me tomorrow, fuck all of you, I hate you all

[Elbirn]

@Elbrin, I made effort to discuss shit with you but you saying you don't like me as a person welll....I have zero interest to discuss with you.

Shock and awe, I want the compulsive liar dead.

Please please please talk to us about sonia. I really want to know why she's town. Convince me.

I cannot convince scum their mislynch is town.

Uh huh.

[Elbirn]

You have made zero attempt to cooperate with me this entire game. The entire time has been spent treating me like dog shit and sitting on your undeserved high horse.

[Elbirn]

I can't even respond to that because you clearly live in the same fantasy world tywin is in.

Like I told you I worked but could check phone sporadically. I at no point lied about sonia. I didn't attack you until after all of this happened.

This is the worst performance I've ever seen from you and I really just want to hurry up and lose this as soon as possible because I can't deal with you any more.

[Elbirn]

Hey tywin, alisae, remember our first game where I thought scum was doctor?

I might have done that again cuz for some reason I got it in my head aj was the doctor.

Neither sonia nor tywin are scum, I was gonna bounce in here and vote pine and declare that we should finish thoroughly embarrassing me by lynching the scum-pine but now he's claimed a pr and idk what to think about it

[Elbirn]

Full-claim: 3-shot Roleblocker, I targeted Tywin N2 and N3, Sonia N4. Forgetting to kill occurs to me because it's really the only option that explains things despite Sonia being blocked, and because I forgot to use my power N1.

.......no...wait no what

One of these two have to be lying because that's too much town power and why would there be no nightkill

But then pine, how do you roleblock someone....and not suspect that person of being last maf when theres no kill?

[Elbirn]

.......I think sonia was just caught in a lie but I'm at work and not really sure because my brain is fuzzy.

[Elbirn]

Okay I rubbed my two brain cells together and came up with this

There was no nk
It makes zero sense for scum to not nk with 2 conftown and probably a 3rd pr out there left to claim
Something stopped the nk
There isn't both a doctor and roleblocker out there, for balance reasons as far as overall town power and for the overlap in utility
Pine must have been the only action and he roleblocked sonia

Sonia is scum barring a counterclaim, and I don't see why scum pine fake claims something here

[Elbirn]

I counterclaim intelligence. We are not lynching Sonia or Pine. Sonia's fake was p town imo.

VOTE: Elbrin

Titus if you honestly want to lynch me over roleblocked scum than I give up, I want to die

Also I don't hate you and I am sorry for being a dick, but 4real come on now

[Elbirn]

A no killing scum team guarantees their own loss so I don't know why they would. There's conftown titus, a mason, and probably a 3rd unknown power role who will basically be conftown when they claim. If scum stops shooting even if they got to Lylo somehow it'd be them versus conftown.

Except for maybe a no kill gambit to claim doc, or pretend they were doc saved and are therefore town, but that seems to have backfired here

[Elbirn]

A no killing scum team guarantees their own loss so I don't know why they would. There's conftown titus, a mason, and probably a 3rd unknown power role who will basically be conftown when they claim. If scum stops shooting even if they got to Lylo somehow it'd be them versus conftown.

Except for maybe a no kill gambit to claim doc, or pretend they were doc saved and are therefore town, but that seems to have backfired here

The third power role is dead.

....The third power role is pine the roleblocker.

It wouldn't even make sense to be referring to someone dead because there are a dead mason, vanilla cop, and a vig.

[Elbirn]

Yeah, it's probably Elbrin...so...

Your over inflated ego has a nasty habit of suspecting only people you don't like, beyond any sense of reason or logical deduction.

If you can actually think that I'm scum after yesterday, and after playing dozens of games with me as both alignments and should therefore absolutely know what I'm like as town/scum, and with a roleblocked scum in game, who you townread based on reasons that you have never divulged because "hurr durr I don't do shit when I'm conftown and I don't talk to scumreads", and in order to make this convoluted thought process work you have to say that pine is the last scum but somehow so am I

Then fuck it, I literally can't even.

[Elbirn]

Pine you're claiming 3 shot role blocker yes?

[Elbirn]

As long as you keep crying, I am still voting.

As long as I continue to disagree with your assessment that I am scum, then I am scum.

Crystal clear, ma'am. Solid gold bars of sense.

[Elbirn]

Pine you're claiming 3 shot role blocker yes?

Yes. I forgot to use my power N1.

*drums fingers*
Time to needlessly stir the pot.

Why aren't you a jailkeeper?

Who in this setup are you intended to be roleblocking exactly?

[Elbirn]

..no. no these questions are dumb, even if mostly rhetorical.

[Elbirn]

Here's my newfound issue with the case of sonia-scum though

Why does she bus nero and hard-defend tywin yesterday when he could have easily been lynched instead? Me and Pine wanted his head on a stick, she could have voted him, tywin might have gone Loco and self hammered or maybe aj would have hopped on or if absolutely necessary BOTH scum could have done the deed.

But she doesn't, when bussing really doesn't make sense.

Pine's flip to reading sonia-scum was kinda iffy as well, and idk why he blocks there

And yeah the town has too much power and idk why would we have a roleblocker on top of all else? What is pine blocking in this setup? The motion detector? And jailkeeper makes so much more sense for town.

Pedit: Tywin im glad you prevented me from posting this travesty by interrupting me, there's more to say

The mod error seems to confirm a roleblock/doctor protect that didn't get calculated and a flip happened that shouldn't.

There is no doctor claim

....So there must be a roleblocker which must be pine.

If he were town I'd expect that, given him claiming to have blocked tywin, and there clearly being a mistake re:protections, shouldn't that make tywin conf scum from his perspective?

But be doesn't out that or even stick to tywin 100% the following day like he's got a guilty. And it sure doesn't make sense that there's 2 instances of two different people being roleblocked resulting in no kill. Tywin and sonia aren't both scum.

He's scum claiming his actual role?

He claimed he blocked tywin N3, but what if he blocked alisae the vig but Cephrir fucked that up. Who was in alisae's vig pool that night?

[Elbirn]

Um Gamma town means scum in Kyouko,

Nero

, Elbrin, Tywin. Congrats you put yourself in the pool.
You and Tywin actually makes sense.
And Sonia is probably town.

I mean... a 1/4 chance of alisae shooting scum. Maybe that makes her worth roleblocking?

[Elbirn]

The simplest answer is that pine roleblocked sonia-scum and thus no nk

But it doesn't account for the debacle of N3 and the mod error. If he did roleblock you, and this was the only thing that could have interfered with a kill, then that makes you scum. But he never addresses this. And you and sonia, having both been roleblocked, can't both be scum.

It seems to me that he must be lying about roleblocking you on N3 and I don't see why he lies as town.

[Elbirn]

Occam's razor doesn't work here if it doesn't account for all the information available, and concluding that it's sonia means ignoring N3.

[Elbirn]

I'm babbling a bit and I do a terrible job of explaining myself but hopefully someone can speak my moon-language

Pedit: I pre-empted your Occam's razor

I don't see how town gets to have roleblocker, 2 masons, a vig, a gunsmith, and a vanilla cop....while scum gets a traitor (negative utility) and a motion detector, and maybe a 3rd thing we don't know yet but stillll.

I think scum-roleblocker just claimed his actual role. Scum need a roleblocker or a doc or something in this setup, something to counteract town power.

[Elbirn]

Well the two viable solutions I see is:

Pine is the RB, got the block

Pine lied, NK'd for this and is suiciding to take one more townie.

Pine doesn't win the game with this claim. It would almost 100% be ego shit, which isn't a move I'd make in his position (I'd scrap it for a win if I had any chance to).

TBH in this setup, isn't a RB negative utility to town though? So much shit it can block from town, so little from scum.

I could see scum no killing here to fake a block, then throwing their hands up in the air when the mark flips town and saying that scum must have no killed

Scum needs 3 lynches to win. Casting some serious doubt on someone who seems to be in an unlynchable position sounds like a good move. Even with doing a no kill the math works. Works better, even?

Scum pine lynches sonia, then aj, then counts on me to be his beard and lynch Tywin in lylo after nk'ing gerry/titus. It makes sensicals.

[Elbirn]

he would have to know of a RB role and somehow manipulate out a fake claim of sonia of her own free will?

Rolecop.

The fakeclaim from Sonia is irrelevant. Pine just roleblocks anyone but him. We reach the same place.

Pine prevented the kill lynch town.
Town flips town. Lynch Pine.

3p lylo.

Looking back on this, a rolecop on a team with a motion detector doesn't sound likely to me. Scums investigation is already the motion detector. I'd expect a roleblocker here for the final pr

[Elbirn]

Stop comparing dick sizes it does not matter thanks in advance

[Elbirn]

I really don't see how today's vote can't possibly be down to pine versus sonia and I'm gonna need a whole hell of a lot more than "my PoE says it's aj so that's that".

Also I'll be the mason for today if it confuses scum into shooting me

[Elbirn]

Fake claiming doctor as a roleblocked scum makes fuck all sense for the record

[Elbirn]

No, it does make sense in the fact that nothing said nothing done is your loss and you have to do SOMETHING.

Okay so you're scum and your nightkill doesn't go through

Possibilities:

1. There's a doctor who protected them. You fake claim doc. The doc claims. You've outed the doctor and are now in a 1v1 and have lost the game.

2. You were roleblocked. You've lost the game unless you can convince town that scum no killed or something, either way claiming doctor doesn't help.

That's how I see it at least *shrugs eternally*

[Elbirn]

This has been a very, very dumb game.

Sonia please unvote yourself and put your vote actually in play, I don't even care where.

[Elbirn]

elbrin can you vote AJ. tywin can you vote AJ

I can not.

The pine/sonia debacle needs to be resolved, and I'm not confident in an aj scum.

[Elbirn]

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine, CloudKicker, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko, Cabd, Syryana, Alisae)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx, Lapsa)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

No reason for Sonia to be bussing in this VC. Not voting Sonia.

Sure!
So it follows that I also would have no reason to be bussing here, correct?

Votecount 4.3

Tywin Lannister 3 (Pine, Elbirn, Nero Cain)
Nero Cain 2 (gerryoat, Tywin)
Pine 1 (Sonia)

Not Voting (Titus, Aj)

8 alive, 5 to lynch.

Nero versus Tywin. Look who suddenly views Tywin as expungable. Elbrin.

I had been pushing tywin the entire day? There was no sudden flip to "oh tywin is expendable now". You'll also note that I voted Nero at day end. While flipping a hissy fit at you over it.

Votecount 1.3

Elbirn 6 (Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx, Aj The Epic, ssbm_Kyouko, Transcend, CloudKicker)
Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)
Alisae 3 (Nosferatu, Lapsa, Tywin Lannister)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)

Not Voting 2 (Nero Cain, mozamis)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Red flag screaming sort Elbrin.

*squints, turns paper upside down* I don't see it. Is it the part where cloudkicker voted me maybe?

[Elbirn]

You did have a reason. Whiteknighting your counterwagon.

You only changed over to Tywin when it became clear it was Nero v Tywin due to my force of will. You voted Nero again when it became obvious that I was unshakable.

Two wagons, most of the game. We know scum aren't completely off the two major wagons due to math.

But it's not possible for sonia to have hopped on a counterwagon for cred?

To be clear I'm not sure about sonia because my pine moonlogic is strong within me, I only mean to point out here that your logic isn't consistent. Sonia hops on a scum wagon and she's town because she wouldn't bus. I hop on a scum wagon but I'm scum looking for cred?

As for that second point, I don't know if you've been paying attention but I'm pretty damn well sure that the entirety of yesterday was me posting at length as to why I felt tywin and Sonia were scum, and gave them each a wall post detailing why I thought so. I had nero as a 3rd PoE candidate and voted him to primarily to end the day and shut you up with a town-nero flip but here we are. Basically this is less a point against me and more you trying to claim brownie points for shit that never happened, per usual.

Your third paragraph is ALMOST an English sentence but I can't really parse it. It looks like you're attempting to claim some vca nonsense but there's no explanation

[Elbirn]

This is me not hammering even though I probably should

I would like a sonia claim doe

[Elbirn]

Did no one like my babbling about pine? I might not have expressed myself clearly enough there but uhh pine is tricksy scum and we should be lynching there

[Elbirn]

You could but that's really dumb from either alignment imo.

Vote pine, it's real easy just follow the beat

VOTE: Pine

[Elbirn]

Here's my newfound issue with the case of sonia-scum though

Why does she bus nero and hard-defend tywin yesterday when he could have easily been lynched instead? Me and Pine wanted his head on a stick, she could have voted him, tywin might have gone Loco and self hammered or maybe aj would have hopped on or if absolutely necessary BOTH scum could have done the deed.

But she doesn't, when bussing really doesn't make sense.

Pine's flip to reading sonia-scum was kinda iffy as well, and idk why he blocks there

And yeah the town has too much power and idk why would we have a roleblocker on top of all else? What is pine blocking in this setup? The motion detector? And jailkeeper makes so much more sense for town.

Pedit: Tywin im glad you prevented me from posting this travesty by interrupting me, there's more to say

The mod error seems to confirm a roleblock/doctor protect that didn't get calculated and a flip happened that shouldn't.

There is no doctor claim

....So there must be a roleblocker which must be pine.

If he were town I'd expect that, given him claiming to have blocked tywin, and there clearly being a mistake re:protections, shouldn't that make tywin conf scum from his perspective?

But be doesn't out that or even stick to tywin 100% the following day like he's got a guilty. And it sure doesn't make sense that there's 2 instances of two different people being roleblocked resulting in no kill. Tywin and sonia aren't both scum.

He's scum claiming his actual role?

He claimed he blocked tywin N3, but what if he blocked alisae the vig but Cephrir fucked that up. Who was in alisae's vig pool that night?

I know it's long and convoluted but everyone read this again pls

[Elbirn]

Daily reminder that if Pine was scum in this gambit, he fully expected not to win.

"I roleblocked sonia she's scum"
"Shucks she flipped town? *shrug* I guess scum no killed that night let's move on"


I mean he needs three mislynches. Where was he getting them before this? He needs to make sonia lynch able and this trick did it. Without this...what, we lynch you, then me, then how is he getting sonia or tywin lynched in 3p lylo with those two?

[Elbirn]

Should we have a mass claim or nah?

[Elbirn]

I get ready for work and see I'm hammered.

Wow town was so fucking op I'm salty

I'm glad I got one last chance to embarrass myself by flopping off of confirmed scum and onto a strong townread for really stupid reasons that only made sense to me *dusts off hands*

[Elbirn]

Me: "sonia is scum I have evidence and I believe in the heart of the cards"
Also me: "sonia was roleblocked and there was no night kill? Holy shit she's town"

[Elbirn]

btw i wasn't mason, lol. who was mason?

Uh...not me, and if not you then I'd have guessed tywin but he really double downed on his VT claim whenever he got pushed to l-1

Probably aj then?

[Elbirn]

I get ready for work and see I'm hammered.

Wow town was so fucking op I'm salty

Sonia has been lynched. She was a...

Spoiler:

Townie

. Night 5 begins.

Why would you do this
Why would anyone ever do this



VOTE: Pine

Pine is still scum for everything I said before plus he was fuck af in twilight and idk something about his Mason hunting being a scumtell. There's also not a bodyguard and a town roleblocker in the same setup. There was too much town power *before* Gerry flipped bodyguard, come on now.

[Elbirn]

"Fuck af"

Yup, got it, fuck as fuck. Why not. Sure. Let's roll with it, we'll do it live.

[Elbirn]

I was mason hunting.

Whining about power is more scum indicative than setup spec. Roleblocker is almost straight negative utility.

So, do you believe scum no killed? Why would scum!Pine out himself as a roleblocker with less than one lynch left?

Oh. "Whining". I'm whining, guys. Which is a scum tell. Just like when sonia did it. Who was town. It's also not setup spec to note that there's too many power roles on the table and that there's an overlap in utility between bodyguard and roleblocker. It's just whining. I'm whining. My bad.

[Elbirn]

Scum-Pine no killed because it worked. He got sonia guarantee mislynched for it which was the same as getting 2 kills in a row. And he avoids suspicion for it, apparently, because "lol why would scum do that"

[Elbirn]

What in the actual fuck, Sonia.

Okay, I officially have no idea why there was no kill N4.

I'm not sure what the right play is here. Tywin may still be the right move, but I really don't like the way Elbirn has been behaving lately, either.

No shit you don't, I'm the only one who's on your ass.

[Elbirn]

But you got a free mislynch out of it, because who in their right mind wasn't going to lynch the person who was roleblocked the night of a nk.

It spent a town lynch on someone who otherwise was almost certainly not going to be lynched. Then you went from sonia not being a good target to titus hammering her despite hard town reading her because fuck this game apparently.

So that's exactly how that works and my logic is logic.

[Elbirn]

But you got a free mislynch out of it,

because who in their right mind wasn't going to lynch the person who was roleblocked the night of a nk.

It spent a town lynch on someone who otherwise was almost certainly not going to be lynched. Then you went from sonia not being a good target to titus hammering her despite hard town reading her because fuck this game apparently.

So that's exactly how that works and my logic is logic.

The bolded is the only reason for a scum no kill yesterday. That means town has a roleblocker and scum knew it. Thus, we are not lynching Pine no matter how stubborn headed he was yesterday that he had a guilty on Sonia.

Move on. Pick someone else Elbrin.

Except it was a fakeclaim? I'm saying that when you claim what amounts to a guilty people will follow it.

I don't think scum has a rolecop when they already have a motion detector for sussing out power roles. I don't think town has a roleblocker when we already have a bodyguard (overlap in utility being to stop kills) and all the other negative utility aspects of our roles (gunsmith gets false readings on the vig and the traitor, our mason was a bodyguard)

[Elbirn]

Elbrin, either explain why scum no kill without a roleblocker or pick someone else.

Because scum is pine who fake claimed roleblocker

How are you this fucking dense.

[Elbirn]

Apologies for the delay.

ssbm_Kyouko has been killed. He was a Townie.

Alisae has been killed. He was a Town Vigilante.

Day 4 can start, dead thread access will happen later.

Please hold, the mod is a stupid idiot.

Per list mod, our solution is to let the flips I posted stand. There was a mod error causing them to be incorrect, but this seems to be the fairest solution. My apologies to those affected and the game in general.

This happened Night 3. Pine claimed to have blocked tywin that night.

I see nothing else that could have caused these flips to be incorrect other than a block not going through. There's no doctor, there's no redirector/bus driver (those are non-normal roles, correct?), and I really, really don't believe that Cephrir just flat out flipped a completely wrong person for no reason. There was a role he didn't factor in. There's no way Alisae said "I kill player x" and Cephrir said "alisae kills player y, got it."

So there is a role that was supposed to stop a kill.

If pine is a town roleblocker who blocked tywin: why doesn't he see what happened, connect the dots, and claim day 4 so we turbo lynch Tywin. This info would have effectively been a guilty. But he doesn't out it. Even now he should have all this in mind and be gunning for tywin but he's not because his brain is fake.

If pine is a scum roleblocker: he blocked alisae the vig when he saw her target pool had nero in it. It wasn't the end of the world for scum as alisae's target wound up being town, so the ruling could stand, and Pine had nothing to complain about. He whistles and twiddles his thumbs and all is well for him.

I'm not questioning pine being a rb, and I haven't been clear about that. I'm saying he's a scum roleblocker.

[Elbirn]

I was asking Elbrin for his scumpool

Under his theory, only you or Tywin could be scum. If town!Pine, then scum!Tywin and dumb Pine. If scum Pine, then scum Pine.

This, yeah. I guess pine could be dumb but I've thought higher of his play than that so far and I'd think that if he blocked someone, and then a mod error announced that someone died who shouldn't have, that he'd figure it out realquik and make tywin dead.

[Elbirn]

And what is your theory?

That his theory, which requires A.) potential roleblocker and scum Rolecop OR B.) lying scum RB and VT elsewise is heavily just playing a card of 'let's lynch both'. Or, in other words, his theory isn't in any effect a theory, it just plays both sides of the possible coin.

Except that I've never proposed a rolecop and have railed against theories of that because scum already had a motion detector fulfilling that utility.

I also don't see how I'm "playing both sides" when I've only ever advocated for a dead pine

[Elbirn]

I was asking Elbrin for his scumpool

Under his theory, only you or Tywin could be scum. If town!Pine, then scum!Tywin and dumb Pine. If scum Pine, then scum Pine.

This, yeah. I guess pine could be dumb but I've thought higher of his play than that so far and I'd think that if he blocked someone, and then a mod error announced that someone died who shouldn't have, that he'd figure it out realquik and make tywin dead.

Pine, your response to this?

Actually, my impression from the mod error was that someone died who oughtn't have, such as Cephrir forgetting to apply the Bodyguard effect. My guess? Gerry bodyguarded Alisae and Cephrir flipped him, realizing after the fact that he should have flipped Gerry instead. With Alisae revealed, Cephrir consults with List Mod to see how to correct things, is advised to go ahead with flips as they are, and does so.

You can guess now that the last surviving mason tried to sacrifice himself to save the vig (I don't know that I'd do that as mason, but sure), but what did you think at the time?

[Elbirn]

...You did go for tywin, this is true.

You didn't shout down from the heavens that you had a guilty but you did go after tywin fairly consistently.. save for when you flopped over to sonia but like what is my argument going to be now, that you can't have 2 scumreads? You did end the day voting Tywin..counter to scum-nero, but that's a whole other kettle of fish I don't feel like getting into now frankly

I kinda buy your claimed hesitation regarding a belief that there could have been a protective at that point....This kinda checks out actually.

*rubs temples*

Okay, more concerns:

Who's scum now Pine?

Still Tywin. There is absolutely nothing to recommend him as Town, and a lot to say he's scum.

I don't think I believe your Doc claim, tbh. I don't see any reason to hold them back. Not fully decided yet though.

Alternatively, I'm a bit ambivalent on AJ, and Elbirn needs another look.

well anyone else wanna explain how there was no death last night

Roleblock would explain it, as would scum forgetting to send in the kill. It happens more than you might think, especially with only one scum left.

ok then if there is a RBer they should claim lol.

Well, I'm a roleblocker, but I targeted Sonia, so that doesn't actually solve our problem.

Full-claim: 3-shot Roleblocker, I targeted Tywin N2 and N3, Sonia N4. Forgetting to kill occurs to me because it's really the only option that explains things despite Sonia being blocked, and because I forgot to use my power N1.

...So you roleblocked sonia, your other strong scumread, the night of the no kill. But you come into the game, see there was no kill, and your first thought is a chitchat with sonia saying that tywin is still your top scum? Why? What's going through your head piney bay-bee? Walk me through it.

[Elbirn]

You're also quibbling over a 17 minute period of indecisiveness.

I mean if I were in your shoes that day I'd have claimed and gone nutshit on sonia in my first post of the day.

But then you're not me, and had reasons for reasonable doubt...I guess.

UNVOTE:

[Elbirn]

Intent to hammer

If pine is town then the mod error was a roleblocked tywin getting to night kill alisae. This plus all the other evidence against him and so on

[Elbirn]

Titus stole my thunder, now I'll never get credit for catching scum

What about MY ego Titus?

[Elbirn]

Fuck that shit

VOTE: No Lynch

[Elbirn]

Nah I'm not picking out of the three of you and I'm not playing into the scum fucks game. Either they kill and narrow this down to 2 suspects or we "happily ever after" this ish.

[Elbirn]

That doesn't make sense. If this were scum choosing who to take to endgame...they would have killed last night.

This is scum keeping the lynch pool open, knowing that a 25% chance of being lynched is better than 33%. We have a better chance of getting scum with 3 living players than with 4.

[Elbirn]

Can someone better at math than me tell me this, why does scum no kill twice? Wouldn't one no kill have gotten us to a 4 player mylo the previous day phase or something?

[Elbirn]

Nonsense. It's scum keeping their options open, but percentage-based assessments are a fallacy. Titus doesn't have a 25% chance of getting lynched, it's pretty much 0%. We're not random-lynching here.

Okay, and if we take that into account, then scum no-kill because a 3p lylo would really be a 50% of getting scum.

Like there's definitely truth in what you're saying, there is a point there, but no matter how you spin it, scum no killed because it is to their advantage and I like the idea of taking that advantage away.

[Elbirn]

Stop using percentages. That isn't how it works.

Jesus christ dude you get my point stop being a pedantic little bitch

[Elbirn]

If there are 3 alive and one of them is titus then one of the 2 other players will be lynched and that is worse for scum then there being a pool of 3 lynch able players

[Elbirn]

Titus died. She was a townie.

Day.

Okay thank God because this was about to honestly turn into me attacking titus because "why weren't you night killed"

I'm glad we're past that

Uhm...I'm going to bed, nobody vote for anyone kbai

[Elbirn]

Hrmph.

Aj, for formalities sake, claim?

I'm vanilla town.

[Elbirn]

I feel like you're both arguing the same thing: Scum has another PR or this game was broke.

This setup seems to revolve around both teams roles causing them to trip over themselves. For town this means vig killing townies, gunsmith getting false positive on the vig / false negative on traitor / (maybe false positive on vanilla cop, idk if they have guns?), vanilla cop getting results on more than half the townies if I'm not mistaken, and a mason bodyguard which is really self defeating. If pine is town rb, he fucks with everything even more and can only stop what, the scum nk or their motion detector?

Meanwhile scum has a traitor which is fulfilling their negative utility and...nothing else I guess but you see the point. A motion detector can suss out town power roles, sorta, but isn't super useful.

I still feel that scum should have a method of dealing with the vig. This could point to a roleblocker, which could be pine. RB might be too strong based on how weak both sides were meant to be though; maybe final scum is a bulletproof, or there was a strongman role to push a nk on vig through



I babble to think thoughts but I don't think I'm going anywhere with this, but for thought: if he's scum rb, why would pine block a VT claim for 2 straight days? Why does it appear that no other town action was blocked?

[Elbirn]

My conclusion is I have no conclusion

One of the following is true

1. Pine is town roleblocker
2. Pine is scum but not a roleblocker, who no killed to setup sonia and give his own PR claim more credence.

I want the 2nd to be true because I want to feel oh so clever for deducing it, which probably means I'm wrong.

[Elbirn]

TBH scum has to predict a no kill on sonia's death day to explain that.

...What?

[Elbirn]

Maybe some kind of even night commuter?

You're saying the scum is a commuter who commuted instead of killing?

Couldn't they do both?

Isn't commuter non-normal?

What would they be avoiding role-wise?

[Elbirn]

Welcome.

Still enjoying the summer breeze (alive)

Pine
Aj The Epic
Elbirn

Not haunting the grounds, we swear (dead)

Lapsa,

Townie

, lynched Day 1.
Lil Uzi Vert,

Town Vanilla Cop

, killed Night 1.
CloudKicker,

Mafia Loved Traitor

, killed Night 1.
mozamis,

Town Mason

, lynched Day 2.
Cabd,

Town Gunsmith

, killed Night 2.
Nosferatu,

Mafia Motion Detector

, killed Night 2.
Gamma Emerald,

Townie

, lynched Day 3.
ssbm_Kyouko,

Townie

, killed Night 3.
Alisae,

Town Vigilante

, killed Night 3.
Nero Cain,

Mafia Goon

, lynched Day 4.
xSoniaNevermindx,

Townie

, lynched Day 5.
gerryoat,

Town Mason Bodyguard

, killed Night 5.
Tywin Lannister,

Townie

, lynched Day 6.
Titus,

Townie

, killed Night 7.

...Okay yeah why does last scum not kill on even nights

[Elbirn]

Maybe some kind of even night commuter?

You're saying the scum is a commuter who commuted instead of killing?

Couldn't they do both?

Isn't commuter non-normal?

What would they be avoiding role-wise?

Okayokay commuter is not a bus driver we're good

Commuter can't kill when commuting, is normal, but I still contest what in the world they think they're avoiding? VT? Why wouldn't they just take their shots both of those nights?

[Elbirn]

Zzzzz talk talk talk

Aj you were leaning towards pine yes? Can you summarize why and also tell the class why I'm town?

[Elbirn]

Now now pine, let aj speak for himself. When you premature ejaculate conclusions like that it kinda fucks with my funky flow.

[Elbirn]

For reference I've gathered all the final vote counts. Not as nuanced as hyperanalyzing all the vote counts but uhh my philosophy is that this is what's most important so shutup, I will draw conclusions later

Votecount 1.F

Lapsa 9 (Pine, CloudKicker, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko, Cabd, Syryana, Alisae)

Nosferatu 3 (Elbirn, xSoniaNevermindx, Lapsa)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 2.F

mozamis 8 (Titus, ssbm_Kyouko, Pine, Gamma Emerald, Alisae, Aj The Epic, Nero Cain, Elbirn)

Aj The Epic 3 (Elbirn, Cabd, Tywin Lannister)
Tywin Lannister 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)
Alisae 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting 1 (Syryana)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Syryana will have to respond to a PM from me by night's end or I'll be forced to replace him.

Votecount 3.F

Gamma Emerald 6 (Aj The Epic, Tywin Lannister, Nero Cain, Alisae, xSoniaNevermindx, ssbm_Kyouko)
Tywin Lannister 2 (Gamma Emerald, Pine)
Nero Cain 1 (Titus)

Not Voting 2 (gerryoat, Elbirn)

Votecount 4.F

Nero Cain 5 (gerryoat, Tywin, Sonia, Elbirn, Titus)
Tywin Lannister 2 (Pine, Nero Cain)

Not Voting (Aj)

8 alive, 5 to lynch.

Votecount 5.F

Sonia 4 (Pine, Aj, Tywin, Titus)
Pine 2 (Sonia, Elbirn)
Aj 1 (gerry)

4 to lynch.

Votecount 6.F

Tywin 3 (Pine, Aj, Titus)

Not Voting 2 (Tywin, Elbirn)

3 to lynch.

Votecount 7.F

No Lynch 3 (Elbirn, Titus, Aj)
Aj 1 (Pine)

You all string up no lynch. It turns out he was just a poor, innocent dude who wasn't even a part of your game. I can't believe you would do something like that, you monsters.

48 hours for night, PM me if you want it to be less than that.

[Elbirn]

No, no this all means nothing to me. Nothing I can believe in.

You both were off of nero, the only scum lynch, and otherwise were on like every town lynch together. You're equally scummy in that regard so that doesn't help.

Yeah no I don't have anything fuckit

[Elbirn]

Alright aj I went back to see what's up..basically I read back to see what was up with the tywin lynch; if you really did determine that it was either "pine or sonia", then why did you go for a tywin lynch instead?

But it doesn't even seem like this is what happens.

Daily reminder that if Pine was scum in this gambit, he fully expected not to win.

VOTE: Elbrin

Pine does your role just say RB in title, or 3x RB? Because what the actual fuck was that gambit anyways.

And what is your theory?

That his theory, which requires A.) potential roleblocker and scum Rolecop OR B.) lying scum RB and VT elsewise is heavily just playing a card of 'let's lynch both'. Or, in other words, his theory isn't in any effect a theory, it just plays both sides of the possible coin.

My entire lean on Pine was more PoE than anything else. I stated the day he claimed RB that it was either Sonia or Pine and I don't think Pine suicides the game. I bought Titus' "there's a role cop" idea a little bit too hard but I also have thought Tywin was playing either an awful town game or a fantastic scum game.

So to recap you have pine as town who would never do what I'm proposing he did; you think I'm scummy enough to vote for over my theory that it's pine; now today you're saying it's either "pine or sonia"

Why am I not scum here aj? You've backtracked on your belief that pine doesn't gambit there, and you've backtracked on your belief that I'm scummy for pushing pine/sonia in order to do the same thing?

[Elbirn]

Pine I see you online, get in here

[Elbirn]

I...frankly no I have nothing in mind I just don't want this shit to stall out and be miserable.

Uhm...did you read the above posts? Did I find some logical hole in aj or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Aside from that really saying any words at all will make my heart sing

[Elbirn]

Oh I am not decided in the slightest. I'm just trying to get a dialogue going and hope that progress happens. I do think that bit up there is a bit iffy, but town can also come across scummy and self-contradictory and idk

I'll say this, if aj is scum I don't feel he's played a good game; if you're scum, you play a very intricate scumgame and I can respect it.

[Elbirn]

No, I never implied Pine WOULDN'T do it, just that he SHOULDN'T EXPECT TO WIN doing it.

Why aren't you scum? I think it's more a number thing than any shining town beacon thing you've done. I don't see town having room for a 3x roleblocker, but that's the exact style of role I'd give scum (or JK, I guess..). My issue with you yesterday was that you went "it's pine or tywin" for two very different reasons. I thought you were talking to Titus as if 'this is foolproof' logic style, which I thought you just played both sides of the coin.

Yeah hang on I just reread this

You're saying that pine as scum intentionally made a move that he knew would make him lose? Am I parsing this right?

[Elbirn]

Dude, I spent half the game frothing at the mouth over Tywin. I was on most of the Townie lynches and off the only scum lynch, whom I was TRing and actively defending. This is not a good game for me. Mutually TRing Titus was about the only good thing I did this game.

Yeah but if you're scum then you did some nut job shit to throw everyone off and idk in general you've been widely townread which is pretty key to scum success

[Elbirn]

....I'm not sure if you just town-told like a motherfucker or if this is my gut being wrong again.

[Elbirn]

So then does it not follow that I must be scum?

[Elbirn]

You're saying that if Pine were scum he wouldn't do that and expect to win.

It should thus follow that scum wouldn't do that because they would lose

I don't see how you don't therefore reach the conclusion that I'm scum based on PoE, and instead you want to push Pine.

[Elbirn]

Hi I'm town now

[Elbirn]

You're saying that if Pine were scum he wouldn't do that and expect to win.

It should thus follow that scum wouldn't do that because they would lose

I don't see how you don't therefore reach the conclusion that I'm scum based on PoE, and instead you want to push Pine.

Aj I'm still gonna want a response to this, if you're town, me getting into your head is what's gonna save this game.

[Elbirn]

*sips wine* yesss, yesssss, fight for my love



Uhm lord idk what to do

Spoiler: Some ck posts I care about

VOTE: elbirn

Also i scummoned aj.

lold

@aj he asked me, and no i havent but i saw her scumplay in our game

VOTE: aj

hi aj, glad ure making content

UNVOTE:

VOTE: pine

shoulda bought one in the 90's like me

Hi there, im glad youre popping out, do you still think titus is mefia?

Cabd you should take it easy and relax, smalltalk is also indicative

Anyway, nero cain what do you think of tywin/alisae/titus trifecta

VOTE: alisea

oh thats better lmao at least it works better with you read UNVOTE:

VOTE: pine going back there

VOTE: pine going back there

Hey don't you start playing anti-town now

What is anti town about it, i voted him 10 pages ago and he never went back to out his reads like he said he would, i also think his d1 was forced

UNVOTE: trans also had a tr on tywin im curious about his assessment of recents posts

just gonna VOTE: Cloud for that early interaction with Cabd; so awkward.

what more awkward is you voting me for first page posts when theres 50 pages of content and much more things to read into

Nos, can you work with me there and tell me whats your reads on the table ? youve been a blind spot null in my reads so far

Nero, whyd you forget to list me ?

Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

Cloud basically did nothing but push town...except for when he voted for each of you once. With no context or explanation either. It's different from how he pushes town, like he voted me for reasons and alisae for reasons. You two he just naked votes and never explains. He does vote pine for more/longer and ends the day saying that aj is townie now (based on....I don't know what.)

Uhm....I noticed that the way ck treated his scumbuddies nos and nero is that he would reach out to them like "hey guys what up glad to see ya", which is something he also does towards aj (idk if I quoted that example though), but not pine.

Wordswordswords

[Elbirn]

It's also notable that cloud treated both nero and nos like a dick. Like post 1297 and his treatment of nero as mentioned before. But does this without scumreading or pushing them. I can't say that I saw an example of him treating either of you two like this but yeah.

Srsly though, can we play Mafia?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

why you tryna get serious 3 pages in smh

Aaand this is the only mention of either of you in nos' iso. P worthless.

[Elbirn]

Srsly though, can we play Mafia?

Moar Lapsa votes please.

why you tryna get serious 3 pages in smh

Is there a reason why he shouldn't?

yeah: its weird. Games usually get out of RVS at least page 5-6 usually around 10, but he's ripping everyone out of their comfort zone at page 3. To my understanding, scum are usually uncomfortable during RVS and it looks like he's trying to circumvent that completely by getting everyone out of RVS ASAP.

Oh yeah this one too

So he pushes pine for bullshit? Sorta? Never mentions nero...or aj.

[Elbirn]

So your counter-point there is that it's a safe way to distance?

I'm still not certain but maybe. He never mentions nero at all though, seems he'd be apt to ignore his buddies.

Any thoughts on anything else?

[Elbirn]

On what you've stated? Other than I did the exact same thing yesterday with Tywin and turned up wrong.

...Like.....what is this argument? I'm analyzing things but you analyzed things incorrectly so don't analyze things?

Do you have any rebuttal or defense against anything I've said? Like yeah its a loaded question but is there anything to say?

[Elbirn]

...Scum never interacted with Tywin? Like when cloud went hard in the paint defending him?

Meh.

I've been drinking and may get slightly drunk. You have until I'm totally lit, at which point I will irresponsibly hammer one of you. Better convince me one way or the other

Like I said earlier
Fight for my love
Good luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor
*slams a shot*

[Elbirn]

Yeah, Tywin was actually voting for me for about a third of D1. But you can call that "mentioned like once"

....Excuse me?

[Elbirn]

*popcorn* idk pine, that might have been a slip :3

Fight fight fight

[Elbirn]

Are you sure aj, I'm kinda drunk rn, walk me thru it

[Elbirn]

Yeah aj you're really reaching imo

Better step you game up I'm about ready to hammer yer ass back to the stone age

[Elbirn]

Also CK's vote on you was doing nothing. No case, no push. Just sat it there. How is that supposed to be CK trying to get you lynched when you weren't even close to danger?

Cloud did the same to you and in the exact same way

Like please explain why I no kill the night before sonia was lynched.

Fuck if I know.

[Elbirn]

*crickets*

I sure did neglect to kill one of you

[Elbirn]

Yeah, Tywin was actually voting for me for about a third of D1. But you can call that "mentioned like once"

So this isn't a slip considering that tywin doesn't even breath pine's name day 1

Pushing on this as a slip was a shitty move from you aj, i knew it was shit even when I was drunk, I just wanted to let you two dig your own graves over it. 50 house points from Slytherin.

Basically the only reason aj is alive is this

1. Was the Lapsa wagon reaaallly entirely town except for traitor-cloud? No groupscum decided to push that?

2. Why does aj no kill the night before sonia's death-day? I can at least bullshit a notice from pine for that but why aj?

3. If pine is scum and I hammer aj I'm gonna have that smug asshole tywin yelling at me for the rest of time

[Elbirn]

Yeah, CloudKicker was actually voting for me for about a third of D1. But you can call that "mentioned like once"

^ how does this not make sense? CK did in fact vote him for a third of day 1. Tywin didn't.

[Elbirn]

This convo is pedantic and bewildering, I award you both zero points.

Gonna go read nero when I can

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: Nero quotes without comment for me to ponder when I have time

Yeah Transcend nice try grudge matching.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT

gonna agree with this.

I think the Lapsa wagon was shit and wouldn't be surprised to see scum on it.

Now state your case. Why do you think Titus is scum?

I think there was scum voting for Lapsa. She spent awhile ignoring me and then why I brought this up she then tried to wave my vote off as RVS or random. Why should I think this is town behavior?

Well, feels like my vote is in the right place. I do agree with the town read on Alisae though and I'm sure a quick meta dive can confirm how she's been described for those who do TR her. I also like when she posts more seriously, it's attractive. Her questions and reads feel like they're coming from town.

Yeah, nah. You don't get to keep your rvs vote on me, not explain why, and then instead of talking about why you think I'm scum go off on a tangent about alisae instead. Tell the good people of this thread why I'm scum

Square up, you bout to catch these blessed hands

Gladiate: Lil Uzi Vert

Agree with Elibirn. Answer his questions Lil Uzi. It's only fair.

Ewwww politician posting.

I vaguely remember us having the conversation that what I refer to as the mediation tell you refer to as that. Though sure, what Cabd is doing is more of the pure mediation tell.

My reads are piecemeal in my iso but you know that my reads often change and that towns reads ebb and flow. I think you are my only real solid static read. You are clearly scum from my POV. I still think the Lapsa wagon was shit so I think there was scum on it. So I guess I'll keep the light town read there. Trans is null. Pine needs to start doing shit or replace out. I can't read NOS, she should be investigated. Moz is town as is cloud. Both Sonia and Uzi seem pretty useless and null. And then it gets kinda wonky. I think it was fair to wagon Gamma when he was lurking/not caught up. I hated his vote on Lapsa but I hated Titus' vote on him. Cabd was pretty null to me but I hate his mediation between you and Tywin. If he's scum that means I'm wrong on you. Unless this is just really good scum theater then I think Tywin town. Gut says AJ is town.
I am generally confused about SSBM's read switch on you but we are currently discussing it. But their stance was pretty funky and would make sense with you as scum. Elbrin is nullscum. True, I hate his stance that you are really town and I hate his belittling of my case on you but I also disliked

Try not to hammer me/Uzi before I wake up? I'd like to get final words/thoughts in.

Seemed kinda consciousness. Even if this part was playing up the silly gladiate gambit he should have known better than to think that he'd be quick lynched so FMPOV is sounds like scum trying to sound like paranoid town.

I waffle on Ali. I can see her actions as both town and scum since both alignments are capable of defending.


TL;DR
Tywin
Moz
Lapsa
Gamma
AJ
Pine
Sonia
Trans
Uzi
NOS
SSBM
Elbrin
Cabd
Alisae
Titus

I am caught up.

My top scumread is SSBM. And then Gamma and or Sonia. Pine, gerry, Aj and Tywin are my town reads. and then Titus, you, Elbrin are my null/POE town reads depending on flips.

Whats your read list look like?

This was an excellent point by the way.

Alisae
Aj
Tywin
Nero

Being the voting bloc. Alisae just does this apparently and is confirmed non-scum. But I find it unlikely for gamma to be scum if any of the latter 3 are. If the 3 are town than the wagon speed/flipping doesn't really mean much but yeah.

Analyzing why these 3 have been so flippant and what their reasons for joining the 2 wagons are could be a good start

Why is it scummy that I voted my scum read? TBF I've been scum reading both SSBM and Gamma for awhile now and I believe that I was the one that first started pushing the Gamma/SSBM team. SSBM wagon falls apart? Ali tells me there's a Gamma wagon. Why should I care wich scum read gets lynched?

+

I

DID

lay out a case on SSBM despite his claims that I didn't.

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)

Tywin Lannister 5 (Pine, ssbm_Kyouko, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Elbirn)

Like both these wagons were shit and the common names are Pine, Titus, Elbirn so there is scum within those 3. Also funny coincidence that all 3 hold the same spot on both wagons (Pine 1, Titus 3, Elbirn 5)

on top of my neck but also scum is Sonia and one of Elbrin/Tywin. Y tu?

That means the only town left are Titus, Gerry, Nero, AJ, Pine and Elbrin..

FIFY!

I don't have any direct opinion of Nero since he did sheep the wagon shift yesterday rather easily. Elbrin is probs town until further notice.

TBF I was pushing a Sonia/Tywin grouping and it looks like Sonia isn't happening so...I just want to lynch scum...I don't care wich username it is.

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: Aj quotes for some reason

Defined as?

You, Elbrin, Myself, titus. We can basically assume Tran's replacement for town, so given a reasonable player is put there, they'll be capable of fulfilling this too. I'm working on Nero, who I believe is capable, but I don't have a townread on yet.

Basically a group of players capable of driving this game in a positive direction going forward. If town only has one head, they'll be picked off and the town has to reorganize each day. That's why it's really important to have multiple heads capable of making good decisions. And the democratic process of finding if one is lying is basically that they're also the center of attention and the ones who have to be right constantly to avoid scrutiny.

I personally think Alisae is a fine wagon to be on right now.

If we're speaking of wagons, I'd like the pool for today to be:
Alisae, kyouko and Sonia. I'd consider Gamma, but that's lower on my list of priorities.

Uzi, Pine, mozamis, Nos need to get active. mozamis has been trying, so props for that, but I need more to get a good read.

Right now, we should run the assumption on Tywin as town and even if you don't agree with that, his wagon today gives us nothing because he's alienated himself and invited himself as an easy target. Transcend's slot should be recognized as town until further notice. I wouldn't want to lynch cabd/titus/elbrin without a much stronger case than has existed already and honestly think at least two are going to be town. As for Nero, this is something I know he does whenever he sees titus. FWIW, he needs to stop focusing on Titus and do something else.

Can we not go for 'proposed scum teams' day 1? Every suggested team thus far looks like garbage.

Kyouko is more concerned about drafting his fantasy scum team than he is about actually hunting. Throws out the traitor card with no real reason. Suspecting a traitor isn't even NAI, because scum can be trying to signal each other that way if one exists. But needless to say, it's also fucking pointless to suspect that in D1. His potential scum team is at this point like 7 long but he's gone through variations that suggest he suspects and has more than half the playerlist as acceptable lynches.

Lapsa Tywin and AJ scum, Alisae Traitor or on other scumteam in multiball, leaning Traitor.

That's from 1536.

If he is a traitor though would it not be interesting if he had used his 561 as another crumb? Look at the bolded. If it's 4 scum, 3+ a traitor, the scumteam might notice this reads list and see themselves as 2 easy mislynches alongside the traitor, plus the last of the scum team being hidden inside the 3 below where there is "perhaps bus on 1". This would be traitor!Lapsa + AJ +Tywin + 1 of [Alisae, Uzi, Gamma] as the scumteam.

1585, referring 'his' as lapsa.

Kyouko, thoughts on Sonia and Uzi?

They aren't bothering me aside from not voting. I haven't looked very closely at Sonia yet though so I think I'll do that now. LUV is the lurkier of the two I feel. Also forgot to post that Cloud is also currently not voting in that unofficial VC.

Suuuuure. Just recall uzi and sonia don't post much between this and him claiming they're part of a scum team.

Also throws out multiball as a possible theory.

More importantly, Kyouko explains away some bad votes with "I was sheeping", specifically why he was on my wagon.

Yeah this is a bullshit lynch. It's basically PL, giving anyone an excuse to hop on, especially if it's a ML, and give no justification for it.

I have other reads, but they're town reads and uninteresting at that point.

Disagree; I'd love your town reads and justification thereof to help me sort you.

Right now,

Titus/Cabd/Alisae/Pine town
Nero/Elbirn probtown
Nos null
Tywin/Sonia/Gamma lean scum
Moz/SSBM scum

Yeah, come on lets lynch AJ. The guys a good player and yet time and time again he gives no original input. He's not trying to "solve the game" , or push it on. No justufactions for his reads.
Just an identikit "blend in" list of reads.
He's scum.

@Aj so Nero's "prob town". Why?

Yeah these two posts make perfect sense in conjunction.

Nero is town because this is what he always does with Titus around. The fact that he's not overplaying his paranoia for Titus and dropped it in search of better things to do is enough.

Well, maybe we should drop the SSBM lynch?

I think that's the idea here, yes.

--------------
Nero Cain
Nosferatu
Gamma Emerald
Aj The Epic
mozamis


If you're not on this list, you're either town or alisae the nightkill immune miller vig. If you are on this list you just might be scum.

Behold my lynch pool, yee mighty, and despair!

I love how noncommittal you are "If you're on this list you may be scum". Let me list the remaining alive players and say the same.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for nero though. Is this just a null and down list or do you have legitimate suspicions for him to be scum?

I don't particularly blame Nero for having an unbold vote count to a lynch, as I wouldn't expect it to count either.

Again, not my question. What do you think of Nero?

I mean, it was your question at the time.

I've been null-town on Nero for a while, simply because he's played exactly as I'd expect with you in the game.

P-edit: And there are posts where Mozamis has Syrana in his scum pile of three, multiple times.

As far as I'm concerned, the outting today is fine. Titus, Alisae, Mason buddy and Pine (probably) all need to die from their point of view so it's really unlikely that they can actually devote a whole day to avoid a killer role that's eliminated at least half their team already or Titus who's essentially full cleared by a now-dead semi-cop.

Nero, it's always impressive that you can manage to maintain paranoia of titus even when she's basically confirmed town.

My theory of Elbrin Tywin AJ Nero feels good, but it's probably wrong

You gonna keep throwing unsubstantiated shade from the sidelines while continuing to do fuckall since you've been confirmed?

Show us the vca in your next post or claim scum, nerd

It's day 3. I need 3 days of data. Flips help.

Go ahead. Fight me.

Bruh. Bruh you *have* 3 days of data.

And you started pushing my buttons from the sidelines because "wow vca says elbirn scum"

And then you don't deliver.

Hell, even putting that aside, you have 6 corpses, two of which are scum, and you don't have enough info to analyze?

Hey guys guess what titus fucks up at when she's scum? She doesn't reveal her mysterious vca no matter how much you beg.

So I think you and I both realize the chances of a false-positive and true-negative existing at the same to to counter a 1-shot gunsmith is really unlikely. It completely invalidates a role that is... more or less flawed, even compared to a 1shot cop.

Which is why I'm stating that this post feels like scum employing the WIFOM of "Yeah but scum would never be fucking crazy enough to argue with confirmed town Titus". I know you're smart enough to see the writing on the wall and unfortunately I think Tywin's theatrics have given people the idea that such cases as the one quoted is acceptable and not retaliated against. Unfortunately, the fact that you are indeed smart enough to know Titus is almost certainly town means that this is complete and utter bullshit.

It's one of those cases were I'd expect you to put up or shut up here. This is a scum as hell post to try and discredit a basic confirmed town clear by a dead gunsmith by pretending to... call her out over not doing VCA? You're attempting to shake this read and do it in a way that people will say "oh but no scum would be that stupid". If you're going to toss shade, you might as well come out and build a case.

You realize that your scum reads thus far have included Lapsa, LUV, me, Tywin, Nero and Gamma, right? Of them, your flips have all been town. Gamma Is the only one out of that I honestly think goes scum.

So that's what I don't like about you saying SSBM has been in sync with you. Scum would be MORE THAN HAPPY to be in sync with you at this point in time.

How in the fuck is Nero newscum lol

The issue with your wall is it's actually bad. Post 2015 where "Elbrin hasn't mentioned pine..." is because PINE WAS INACTIVE for the majority of d1. 2323 right away should make you question your entire premise of them being scum together but instead you just push it harder.

Post 2489 is complete bullshit because everyone in this game thought Elbrin put Mozamis at L-1, not lynch. That was Nero's unbolded vote that caused the issue, not Elbrin's hammer.

You see what's going on here? You're skewing the context of literally everything to whatever fits you best.

I mean I'd be fine lynching Nero with the explicit understanding that Tywin dies in any forthcoming Lylo situation but I'm pretty lukewarm on any read right now.

Rolecop still makes 0 sense. If Pine isn't lying, they see 3x and don't NK.

(And also)

None here.

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people
Tywin
Kyouko
Cabd

...Cabd is conftown and Kyouko is towntown you silly goose.

Replace cabd with aj.

Replace Kyouko with someone else pretty please.

Nos, for example,

[Elbirn]

Spoiler: Pine quotes

VOTE: Nero Cain

I haven't played with you in ages! How's things?

Literally impossible unless those three plus me are scum

ok, caught up and have calmed slightly.
I'll rescind my rage vote for now. His reason for voting Lapsa sounds OK. Plus, I really want him to be town. He has to be null I guess for a while. But seems more profitabke to concentrate on cloud kikers stuff.

UNVOTE

My run through of Cloudkicker's ISO suggests that he was attacking Gamma, Alisea, Nero and I pretty consistently. There were others, and a few he went back and forth on, but they seemed more a feature of his spazzy nature than serious attacks.

More important is how hard he defended Tywin. That's where my vote is going.

VOTE: Tywin

Pine do you think Cloud incriminated Kyouko?

Entirely inconclusive. CK was pretty neutral on them, but seemed to be buddying up in some posts. The buddying could be construed as trying to foster a Town ally, or it could be supporting a scum comrade, or any number of other things. So like I said, inconclusive.

Is there something in particular you'd like to point to that you think indicates otherwise? (genuine curiosity)

PEdit: I just went through Cloudkicker's ISO looking for references to Sonia, and concluded that she's not scum with CK. CK started out aggressive and attacking with her, then ended up giving her a blanket TR and supporting her in a couple of places. That reads to me like someone who is looking to push an attack, seeing it not working, then shifting gears to turn them into an ally. Given that Cloudkicker knew scums' identities, it rules her out too.

Personally, this gives me solid TRs on Gamma, Alisae (with the caveat that she is either Vig or SK), Nero, and Sonia, in addition to TRs on Titus and Cabd.

Primary scumread is Tywin, based mostly off of Cloudkicker's ISO, need to drill down on some more. Honestly, though, with so many quality Townreads, it makes PoE a lot easier.

Cannot decide if Tywin's massive AtE is a scum tactic or genuine frustration. It reads as the latter, which makes me question my reads, but it's also classic scum to fake fatalism.

Need to weigh Tywin objectively again.

VOTE: Unvote for now.

This is the Townbloc I'm seeing right now, by the way:

==Upstanding Citizens==
Pine - My role PM says so.
Titus - Solid Townread, supported by consistent attacks by by Cloudkicker
Cabd - Solid Townread, supported by clearing Titus. No reason to clear her or even claim if scum.

==Probationary Members==
Sonia - Interactions with Cloudkicker. See post 2301 for details.
Kyouko - Recent developments, gamesolving
Nero - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker
Alisae - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker, probationary due to possible (even likely) status as SK.
Gamma - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker

That's 8/14 of the playerlist. Hunh. I've never been especially good at Townhunting, but this game seems like a bit of a perfect storm for it.

==Scumlist==
Tywin - I reread him, and the scumvibes are strong. The fact that he has pretty much gone to ground after the pressure lifted from him reinforces the notion that the initial scumread was sound, and all that AtE was an attempt to gain sympathy. Fire away, Alisae.
Mozamis - Explored elsewhere, mostly to do with disingenuous and inconsistent reads and justifications.

That leaves a remarkably small nullpile...

==Meh==
Elbirn & AJ - I keep getting these two mixed up. Neither has come off as Townish, but neither have they made any notable errors or slips. They could be scum playing it close to the vest or cautious Town. I don't know yet.
Nosferatu - Who? I looked this guy up, and his site-wide wordcount in the last ten days is smaller than this post alone. That suggests NAI lurker to me, and probably flake-bait. Complains about catching up difficulties. I can empathize with that to an extent, but come on, man. We're no longer at a 20-pages-a-day pace. Skim a bit. I won't shed any tears if he gets vigged, though I always prefer someone scummy to a lurker any day of the week.
Syryana - Again, who? I haven't interacted with this slot all game. I see a ton of fluff and nonsense in his ISO. Lots of memes, not a lot of scumhunting. Actually, he hasn't posted anywhere on site in a week.

@Mod: Can we get a replacement on Syryana? Or at least a fairly insistent prodding?

Okay, there are my thoughts. Some feedback and discussion would be appreciated. Apologies for multiposting, I know that makes me a hypocrite and I don't care.

Moxamis Tywin Nos Nero

These need to die


*back to lurking*

Cloud was attacking Nero pretty regularly. That rules him out as far as I'm concerned.

AJ has certainly gotten stinkier lately

@Titus and Cabd: I'm telling you, go read Cloudkicker's ISO. I think it vindicates Nero.

Even-though Titus complains about meta she's actively aware and spouts her "I don't bus as scum" meta. In that same street fighters game that I posted earlier, she defended one of her buddies hard....but also bussed on of her buddies hard.

My stance is that scum are plenty capable of defending their buddy but town also whiteknight/defend and I'm not skilled enough to tell the difference.

player from 2009 and ure not confident in your reads

Even-though Titus complains about meta she's actively aware and spouts her "I don't bus as scum" meta. In that same street fighters game that I posted earlier, she defended one of her buddies hard....but also bussed on of her buddies hard.

My stance is that scum are plenty capable of defending their buddy but town also whiteknight/defend and

I'm not skilled enough to tell the difference.

player from 2009 and ure not confident in your reads

sounds bogus

Anyway, nero cain what do you think of tywin/alisae/titus trifecta

I think there's also the possibility of Elbirn wich would mean one of tywin/alisae is wrong but otherwise I can see it.

You didnt really answer my question i was wondering why do you think of the interactions since you hard tr titus, do you think tywin is scum, that alisea is scum for buddying etc yada

Nero, whyd you forget to list me ?

This suggests an adversarial relationship to me. For a Traitor who knows his scumbuddies, and is not trying to get killed by them, that would seem incredibly foolhardy.

I could maybe lynch AJ tomorrow. The connection to Cloudkicker gets more damning the more I consider it

Actually, it kind of was. Nos didn't do anything overtly scummy, he just lurked a lot. That makes him the province of Vigilantes. I'll be pointing to this game as prime evidence of that axiom in the future.

We can do Nero tomorrow, or Alisae can do him tonight. He's still a null read based on lurking, while Tywin is superobvscum. If we can lynch him today, that puts us within striking distance of a Town win.

I wasn't town reading Gamma either so

vote:Gamma

pls don't listen to an OMGUSing Titus.

Okay, admittedly I'm only half paying attention these days, and planning on catching up at night, but this vote was fucking horseshit.

VOTE: Nero

^This is also kind of horseshit. VCA with red-colored names before they flip? Fuck off. I mean, I agree about Tywin, but fuck off.

Pine. Do you have ANY Thoughts about what has been going on?

And what are your reads?

I've actually been pretty upfront about my reads, and they haven't changed much, despite how much you people are vomiting into this thread. Cloudkicker's ISO analysis provided a wealth of information, much of which you've largely ignored, that I'm standing by. Let's go back to this post:

This is the Townbloc I'm seeing right now, by the way:

==Upstanding Citizens==
Pine - My role PM says so.
Titus - Solid Townread, supported by consistent attacks by by Cloudkicker
Cabd - Solid Townread, supported by clearing Titus. No reason to clear her or even claim if scum.

==Probationary Members==
Sonia - Interactions with Cloudkicker. See post 2301 for details.
Kyouko - Recent developments, gamesolving
Nero - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker
Alisae - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker, probationary due to possible (even likely) status as SK.
Gamma - Attacked consistently by Cloudkicker

That's 8/14 of the playerlist. Hunh. I've never been especially good at Townhunting, but this game seems like a bit of a perfect storm for it.

==Scumlist==
Tywin - I reread him, and the scumvibes are strong. The fact that he has pretty much gone to ground after the pressure lifted from him reinforces the notion that the initial scumread was sound, and all that AtE was an attempt to gain sympathy. Fire away, Alisae.
Mozamis - Explored elsewhere, mostly to do with disingenuous and inconsistent reads and justifications.

That leaves a remarkably small nullpile...

==Meh==
Elbirn & AJ - I keep getting these two mixed up. Neither has come off as Townish, but neither have they made any notable errors or slips. They could be scum playing it close to the vest or cautious Town. I don't know yet.
Nosferatu - Who? I looked this guy up, and his site-wide wordcount in the last ten days is smaller than this post alone. That suggests NAI lurker to me, and probably flake-bait. Complains about catching up difficulties. I can empathize with that to an extent, but come on, man. We're no longer at a 20-pages-a-day pace. Skim a bit. I won't shed any tears if he gets vigged, though I always prefer someone scummy to a lurker any day of the week.
Syryana - Again, who? I haven't interacted with this slot all game. I see a ton of fluff and nonsense in his ISO. Lots of memes, not a lot of scumhunting. Actually, he hasn't posted anywhere on site in a week.

@Mod: Can we get a replacement on Syryana? Or at least a fairly insistent prodding?

Okay, there are my thoughts. Some feedback and discussion would be appreciated. Apologies for multiposting, I know that makes me a hypocrite and I don't care.

So there's the foundation to work from. Since posting this, we lost Cabd, Nos, and Mozamis, and Syryana was replaced by MasonGerry.

I'd like to remind you that I caught what I think is a Towntell from Kyouko, here:

Kyouko actually comes out of this with Townpoints. I figure a scum who spotted what they thought was a Mason crumb would just kill said person and be done with it, rather than try to publicly solve the game. Or at least they'd point out the crumb to their buddies in private and not share the observation with Town.

Other changes: Nero is looking scummier to me, especially with that move on Gamma. Gamma has moved down to nullish. Both of the TRs on them from Cloudkicker's ISO were pretty weak, as he was mostly just badmouthing Nero without voting, and voted Gamma without much conviction, only to hop off without much reason. Alisae...fuck, I don't know. If you're Vig, you'll get killed before too long. If you're nonBP SK, same. If you're alive near endgame, then we can afford to look at you again. Mostly, I find your playstyle repellent, and your reasoning childish. But whatever. Elbirn and AJ are still struggling to make a lasting impression on me, but what I've seen looks generally Townish. They deserve a reread of their ISOs.

Seeing the VC, I'd prefer Tywin. I'm more certain of him.

VOTE: Tywin

wut

I want to know what the fuck is up with the error, but I feel like trying to guess is futile and counterproductive.

Okay, by my math, assuming 3 scum + Traitor, we're one off MYLO, though a lucky roleblock or Doctor could give us a reprieve. Time to stop dicking around.

VOTE: Tywin

Gerry, convince me about Nero. Cloudkicker analysis suggests Town.

The simple fact that Nero hasn't been hammered means he's scum.

You're welcome to flip me instead, but when I do flip town, Nero must go. The fact is that if we were both town, scum would hammer one of us without question. This being a tie makes it obvious.

So... Nero or me can go, but the other then needs to die. It's that simple. I'd also like Pine dead as well, so I'm cool with my lynch if we explicitly understand that Nero is dead, then Elibrin/Pine are chosen for the next lynch. AJ, you seem okay with the opposite, so if that's the case, fine. I am town, but if I have to play the game as if it's Lylo right now, I'll play it thinking Nero/Pine are scum, Elibrin is a VI, and the rest are town. If the lynch is me, then it needs to be expressly stated that Nero/Pine eat rope after I'm gone. I'll even vote myself to break the tie in that case. Bet Nero won't do that one, since he's obv scum.

Bolded is just blatantly false. There are half a dozen reasons why Town!Nero wouldn't be hammered, the most obvious is that both scum are on the wagon. Also possible is if one of the non-voters is scum, but has been standing by a Nero TR for long enough that they can't justify switching. Or maybe they're paranoid about getting suspected if they hammer him. Maybe they're afraid of VCA. These four are just off the top of my head; I'm sure I could come up with more and cleverer reasons if I thought about it for any length of time. I know that, for myself, I'm super paranoid as scum, and almost obsessively stick to my alleged reads. Not everyone is a complete neophyte.

The Nero lynch was lucky. Nero was playing a good game, and there was shit all reason for his lynch. There are two people here who are actually scummy, and you're lolTRing them for no reason I can see. The best I can tell, you rolled a die to decide your reads here.

Like holy shit you had more pr's? This was impossible for scum to win w/e

Score. My Towngame ain't dead.

Wasn't me. You seriously weren't Mason? I was sure I'd mathed out that you were the only possibility.

I assumed that someone who was supposed to survive was instead flipped. There was insufficient evidence for an allegation, as I was guessing there was a protective role in play. Besides, are you really suggesting that I didn't go hard for Tywin, who is the guy I blocked?

There were also other possibilities to consider, like the possibility of an intentional no-kill, and accidental no-kill, double-checking that I actually sent the block (I forget to take actions I fully intend to take sometimes, which made/makes me consider simple negligence as a possibility, especially as a no-kill is super anti-scum-wincon) etc.

This really isn't complicated. "Not decided" = "Not decided."

That said, it strikes me that there's no advantage to be gained from Elbirn no-killing then no-lynching.

This immediately makes me suspicious of AJ. He's kind of skated by for days when we've been distracted elsewhere.

[Elbirn]

I really am trying to make the right call here but I haven't a fucking clue, I am not good enough for this situation.

There's a lot of evidence pointing towards and against you both and I'm unsure what to make of it.

Nero pushes pine
Town-moz was a counter wagon to aj
Pine defended nero on the basis of CK analysis..but town can be wrong right?

I don't know.

[Elbirn]

I don't, I'm just screaming into the void whilst the both of you and the entire dead thread silently judge and loathe my stupidity and indecisiveness

[Elbirn]

Actually AJ I have a question for you.

[Elbirn]

Are you town?

[Elbirn]

Man

I really hope you're not

VOTE: Aj The Epic

[Elbirn]

[Elbirn]

There exists an alternate time line

Where Hilary Clinton wins the presidency in a landslide

The Falcons easily trounce the Patriots in the superbowl

And I, after literally 100% catching Pine's fake claimed bullshit and calling him out on it, after scouring his posts and seeing him defending scum and not voting town once, after realizing that as fucking obnoxious and illogical tywin was he had a 100% read on the scum team and that titus had a 0% while pushing town all game

After compiling all the evidence and seeing that it was Pine

I ask aj if he's town, he says yes, and I go "oh, okay"
And hammer pine for the most righteous win ever

But it is not this day

[Elbirn]

Elbrin.
I'm suffering right now.

I'd cry with you if the last 10 minutes hadn't left me dead inside



Hey guys remember that time that I said "hey, there are too many power roles, Pine is lying!"

And Pine said

"No there's not"

And I said "oh okay" and then hammered town?

Wasn't that awesome?

*pounds a bottle of scotch*

[Elbirn]

It seemed to me that he was signaling to you three? The reach outs to nero and nos for exampld

[Elbirn]

Scum still should have had a bp or roleblocker though. I'm fine with the town balance here because all of the roles can just trip and fall on their face, but scum had a super negative utility role and then....a motion detector?

Disclaimer I am not a mod