Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.In post 25, Marquis wrote:Postie (Team Cuddly)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Lycanfire (eddie cane)
Llamarble (DEFCON)
Gamma Emerald (Relaxed Nature)
Cogito Ergo Sum (God Save the Black Goo)
Marquis (Make Papa Proud)
Tchill13 (Chillplay Bombahskiies)
EddieFenix (Queue Agents)
ActionDan (Who is John Galt?)
Thestatusquo (Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy)
Dunnstral (Backhanded Remarks)
LicketyQuickety (Spam Squad)
momo (Sauciety)
northsidegal (Serious Business)
rnI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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So are these TRs or SRs of these players?In post 46, northsidegal wrote:
so you think that i'm both tryharding and that i'm trying to coast by solely focusing on questions?In post 42, Marquis wrote:Not liking how nsg solely focuses on the postie responses and that feels solid enough to go off of.
Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1
don't you think it's a little early in the game to be saying that, especially given that like four people have posted so far?
not sure if all of my teammates will be reading this game but i know a few will and will probably share their thoughts with me.
what difference does it make between helping him out with his pressure on you and voting him to put pressure on him? there's nothing to say that following him is the "logical" thing to do rather than pressuing him. i assumed he didn't have anything because, looking over your posts myself, there really wasn't anything there that could reasonably be interpreted as a scumslip. sure,In post 44, Postie wrote:Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.maybebeing the first to the thread opening could be interpreted that way, but i put more weight into awkward rvses being scum indicative than that tell anyways.
this is really forced.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Given I am the captain of our team, thinking about what this means, it means we are fairly disorganized. IDK what of my teammates are reading this game or not.In post 53, Marquis wrote:
Also bumping thisIn post 42, Marquis wrote:Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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I like this post here by Dan.In post 58, ActionDan wrote:
NSG looks like NSG here. What you'd call scum-tryharding I'd call NAI. But I 100% disagree with your postie assessment and think as NSG as said, it comes off as forced. "forced" really isn't doing it justice actually, it's more like a cross-examination that where any one line of inquiry splits into two arbitrarily ad nauseam.In post 36, Marquis wrote:For the record nsg is scum-tryharding as opposed to postie town-tryharding. The difference is in the reactiveness (?) or general gist of thatI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Worst post of the thread so far.In post 63, Llamarble wrote:I wonder if we win by lynching EddieFenix and Marquis and Postie. Wouldn't be surprised.
What is the point of this post at all?I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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This seems pretty flat to me...In post 73, wgeurts wrote:
Alright, I'm not convinced this is a scum post as you are still relatively new to the site and thus, the game. Care to talk some things through with me?In post 28, northsidegal wrote:
he forces a read to a) pretend like he's generating useful content and b) stagnate things by ending rvs early. moreover, i think in general a forced entrance like that is just more likely to come from self-conscious scum than from town. that's not to say that i believe that he's necessarily scum or that any of those were necessarily his strategy – just that i think it's likely enough to warrant moving my vote while we're still in rvs.In post 27, Postie wrote:
Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?In post 23, northsidegal wrote:i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).
Why would Llama want to attract so much attention so early on as you've mentioned? As scum it could be a really bad play in an attempt to draw suspicion on Postie, Llamarble knows whoever he'd have to play this perfectly as to not risk it backfiring. A very dodgy move as scum unless he's intentionally trying to have people think he can't be scum for that exact reason. As town, it could be an attempt to get this moving and test reactions, or he could legitmately have a reason to suspect Postie right now. For these reasons I don't particulary lean either way on thiese actions of his, though gun to head I'd say town.
This brings me to my next point.
How is generating content stagnating the game. The RVS is named that, because it's, well, random. Random votes don't generate alignment-indicative content, anything moving away from the RVS is something that is generating content from which we can try to guess people's alignments. I don't really think your second point holds up, do you see what I mean?
Anyone else think so?I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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So I ask people to ask me questions and the best you can come up with is "Are you Scum?"In post 100, Sauce wrote:
Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?In post 99, LicketyQuickety wrote:OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.
I thought your OP was incredibly Scummy, but I held off judgement on that because I was only working off one post.
Why did I say people can ask me questions?
Because People don't understand what i am saying a lot of the time. And since IDK what people understand about what I am saying and what I am not, I suggest people ask me questions so that my thought process is more open with people.
I find it slightly odd that you quote the last thing I said to ask me if I am Scum and then double back to analyze what I actually said earlier and try to infer a motivation behind it. This tells me that you are Scum reading me before actually gathering any information on me, which is Scummy because it shows that your trying to sort me is not in earnest.In post 101, Sauce wrote:
Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.In post 92, LicketyQuickety wrote:This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.
Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.In post 92, LicketyQuickety wrote:This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.
Not a good sign if you can't tell and don't want to find out specifically, instead post a general 'wut'.In post 93, LicketyQuickety wrote:So are these TRs or SRs of these players?
VOTE: SauceI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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How much experience do you have playing mafia? Not just asking about your experience on this site.In post 106, Sauce wrote:It's a stylistic thing, unlike your vote on me, which is supposed to infer that you didn't like my OP, as if you're unsure about whether it wasn't enough to say that. Maybe it wasn't enough to seem like something a townie might say. I think you might be right.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Well, it's something I can take under consideration, yeah. But IDK if you are Scum or not and as such, IDK if you are trying to manipulate things whether the info you give is legit or not. That's kinda where I am with your post.In post 108, Thestatusquo wrote:LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?
Or is it just me that I think that's weird.
Asking for four friends.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.In post 110, Thestatusquo wrote:Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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I didn't say you lied. I said you could be trying to manipulate things whether what you said was accurate or not and I don't know one way or another.In post 114, Thestatusquo wrote:
Whats the motivation for me lying to you about that, outside of the possibility that me and llamarble are scum together?In post 111, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Well, it's something I can take under consideration, yeah. But IDK if you are Scum or not and as such, IDK if you are trying to manipulate things whether the info you give is legit or not. That's kinda where I am with your post.In post 108, Thestatusquo wrote:LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?
Or is it just me that I think that's weird.
Asking for four friends.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Too focussed on a single slot.In post 122, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Making it harder for scum to just ease into the game seems like a good thing to me. What downside do you see to the Marquiswagon?In post 121, LicketyQuickety wrote:Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).
But really, IDK if Scum in this case is smart enough to hop on a quick accumulating Scum wagon knowing the wagon is likely to dissipate at some point. Seems unlikely if this was a normal game, but it's not a normal game because there is a lot more info pretty much everyone has access to. Ultimately tho, going by Occam's Razor, Marqu is prolly more likely to be Town based on wagonomics at this point. Only way I can see Marquis getting these votes this fast if they are Scum is by pure chance.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Why is that? Unless you are just hinting at some surface level association BS I don't get this comment.In post 132, Tchill13 wrote:
very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.In post 105, Gamma Emerald wrote:LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for nowI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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What is your (or your teams) read on chill?In post 157, Llamarble wrote:Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.
I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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What was your question?In post 165, Thestatusquo wrote:speaking of questions and lq, lq i don't believe you ever answered my question.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506In post 169, Postie wrote:Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but
Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site. Your team members can get stuffed.In post 72, wgeurts wrote:I can understand some suspicion on Postie as some of my team members have already warned me they're jolly good at playing scum, enjoy it, and some already want me to vote her.
Also "team members" plural? The only who should remember that game apart from you is Espe.
Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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In post 175, Postie wrote:
That was my first scum game, yes.In post 172, LicketyQuickety wrote:I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506
Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?
If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?In post 176, Tchill13 wrote:In post 44, Postie wrote:Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.In post 62, Postie wrote:VOTE: wgeurts
While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.
p-edit: Nice timing.
Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.In post 66, Postie wrote:What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.
VOTE: Marquis
Also
I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?In post 53, Marquis wrote:
Also bumping thisIn post 42, Marquis wrote:Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1
The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...In post 178, EddieFenix wrote:
Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.In post 145, northsidegal wrote:
dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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That's a laugh.. I've never played with mathdino, how the hell would he know?In post 190, northsidegal wrote:i have some questions from myself and from my team:
@dan – mathdino wants to know why you're townreading quick, he thinks quick was the most likely of his team to pick scum.
@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?
@quick – thoughts on the votes on the marquis wagon?
@marquis – who are you townreading?
Like what do I think of specific votes on marquise? Which ones do you want me to look at? I was doing a meta analysis, not looking at specific instances.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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If they are Town, it's just RVS. If they are Scum, they could have some investment for manipulating things with their votes.In post 192, EddieFenix wrote:
I was wondering who else was going to pick up on that.In post 191, northsidegal wrote:by the way, anyone else feel like 179 is a really weird thought? it's hard to put into words – it kind of feels like a pointless thing to say / comment on, maybe.
Care to further explain why you're thinking that way?LicketyQuickety wrote:
Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...In post 178, EddieFenix wrote:
Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.In post 145, northsidegal wrote:
dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?
Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Okay, let's start with this: how do you envision me answering that in the first place?In post 204, Postie wrote:
VOTE: LicketyQuicketyIn post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?
Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.
You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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I think Chill is still very much within his Scum range, is the TL;DR version.In post 209, EddieFenix wrote:
I would like to take a reasonable stab that someone bring this to discussion as well.In post 207, Tchill13 wrote:
also i'd like for you to build on this.In post 173, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.
Chill is good at blending in as Scum and tends to make his reads match what benefits him at the time he makes those reads. If someone is TRing him, he may TR them back. If it looks like a Townie is taking pressure, he may throw shade on them. Basic Scum play 101, but he does it in a way that doesn't look too opportunistic and generally gives just enough reason for the reads so people don't question his reads. I said as much in a different game I played with him.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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That requires an inference into the context that Dunn was using. We can't assume that that inference is true because there was no explanation with Dunn's vote on Marquise, which drops the context down to zero.In post 232, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Honesly yeah I agree on this post being weird. I was able to make something of Dunnstral's vote, and I never said I knew Llamar was town.In post 204, Postie wrote:
VOTE: LicketyQuicketyIn post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?
Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.
You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Tell reck I don't have the signature I have fo no reason. And there's no way he can understand that quote by Nacho because reck has never played a single game with me.In post 229, Thestatusquo wrote:Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.
Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.
He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)He likes CES calling it out.
He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.
This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.
I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.
My town pile is postie eddie sauce.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Well that's an interesting way to sidestep what I said.In post 250, Thestatusquo wrote:What do you think about the parts of the post (most of it) that aren't directed at you?
What I see is lack of consistency into the methodology to get the reads that Reck is representing. In the first case, Reck is using a mind meld read. In the second, he is using a read based on play. And in the third he is using a meta read. So it's quite confusing why Reck is using three methods to get 3 different reads.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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No, I don't. But I do think that it shows that Reck either doesn't know what he is talking about because he is forced to use different methodologies instead of keeping the methodologies the same, or you are Scum and that is the reason for the different methodologies.In post 255, Thestatusquo wrote:
Do you actually think its unusual to use different things to understand your surroundings as they become relevant?In post 252, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Well that's an interesting way to sidestep what I said.In post 250, Thestatusquo wrote:What do you think about the parts of the post (most of it) that aren't directed at you?
What I see is lack of consistency into the methodology to get the reads that Reck is representing. In the first case, Reck is using a mind meld read. In the second, he is using a read based on play. And in the third he is using a meta read. So it's quite confusing why Reck is using three methods to get 3 different reads.
In short, Reck is using different tactics, so the goal must be the thing that is the same. See here to know what I am talking about: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69491
Basically, I think it's a bit more Scummy than Towny the way Reck goes about making these statements.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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You have just moved the goal posts. We were not talking about how you get reads but how Reck came to the conclusion to the reads he gave. You don't what Reck's methodologies are for getting reads and there is evidence of the fact you didn't have this conversation because you said you assume most people play the same way you do without mentioning that Reck said he gets reads the same way you do.In post 263, Thestatusquo wrote:I disagree I guess. Frequently when I'm reading through a game I note things and end up with a list of things that bear no relation to each other. Its not because I'm "switching methodologies" or whatever, its that my methodology is reading the posts and seeing what things stick out to me. For instance, if I player I know well is playing very differently from how I would expect them to I take note of it, but I would also take note of posts by that player that seem to have town motivation behind them. I think most people play this way? I don't want to get too far down the theory rabbit hole but this is game relevant so I do want to talk about it
I am getting more and more suspicious of you, shea, because you seem to be bringing up points with me only to drop them later when I say something you are not expecting. It's the hesitation that I see in your responses that tell me that you either feel I am on to something or don't know how to respond. Given you never talked Reck in what I said in reply to Reck, this leads me to believe you are not hesitant because you don't know how to respond (because otherwise you would have talked to Reck about what I said), but rather that you are Scum trying to give a believable spin on things.
FoS SheaI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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talk aboutIn post 267, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You have just moved the goal posts. We were not talking about how you get reads but how Reck came to the conclusion to the reads he gave. You don'tIn post 263, Thestatusquo wrote:I disagree I guess. Frequently when I'm reading through a game I note things and end up with a list of things that bear no relation to each other. Its not because I'm "switching methodologies" or whatever, its that my methodology is reading the posts and seeing what things stick out to me. For instance, if I player I know well is playing very differently from how I would expect them to I take note of it, but I would also take note of posts by that player that seem to have town motivation behind them. I think most people play this way? I don't want to get too far down the theory rabbit hole but this is game relevant so I do want to talk about ittalk aboutwhat Reck's methodologies are for getting reads and there is evidence of the fact you didn't have this conversation because you said you assume most people play the same way you do without mentioning that Reck said he gets reads the same way you do.
I am getting more and more suspicious of you, shea, because you seem to be bringing up points with me only to drop them later when I say something you are not expecting. It's the hesitation that I see in your responses that tell me that you either feel I am on to something or don't know how to respond. Given you never talked Reck in what I said in reply to Reck, this leads me to believe you are not hesitant because you don't know how to respond (because otherwise you would have talked to Reck about what I said), but rather that you are Scum trying to give a believable spin on things.
FoS Shea
EBWOPI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Will never gave a read on marqu here:In post 273, Thestatusquo wrote:I dont believe anyones self meta, especially when its presented in as an attempt to answer an attack on them.
a) I don't think I have written off marquis as null. Or rather, my position on marquis is more nuanced than that. I declared him to be pretty null on the content of his posts alone, specifically in response to the wagon and LLamarble saying he was very scummy. If you read my post about team commentary, I note that Will thinks he's a lean town, whereas I think that is too strong, and I find that his lack of existence today and lack of response to the wagon makes me think the pressure is in a good spot, which makes me null-scum read him. Giving some deference to my teammate who has a lot more experience with him I am not pushing him right now, but I don't want that wagon to go anywhere until he comes back.
Why not?In post 229, Thestatusquo wrote:Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.
Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.
He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)He likes CES calling it out.
He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.
This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.
I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.
My town pile is postie eddie sauce.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Misread, sorry.In post 276, Thestatusquo wrote:
What do you think this is?Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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IDK, man. I think you are Town, but TvS conversations are really fucking hard to identify.In post 282, ActionDan wrote:VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.
Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.
I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Going to hold you to that.In post 286, wgeurts wrote:Sorry I've been fairly absent, I've got exams this week. Final one is on thursday, so I'll be active once they're all out of the way. Tomorrow I've got some time to catch-up, 'll make sure to provide some input then.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.In post 285, Gamma Emerald wrote:
About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"In post 282, ActionDan wrote:VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.
Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.
I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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What is there to discuss?In post 288, Thestatusquo wrote:LQ you've dropped off the conversation we were having. Is there anything else you want to follow up on about it or are satisfied for now?
I made a play and now Town has to react to it.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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What are you even talking about?In post 291, Thestatusquo wrote:You didn't respond to my last response. I thought you might.
What did you say that I really need to comment on?I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Well, I mean, where would the conversation stop? It has to stop at some point, right? Otherwise you could have a conversation that would never end. I chose to end the conversation at that point and see what other people have to say about it.In post 293, Thestatusquo wrote:I am so confused. You said you had a problem with me and said you thought I was shifting the goal posts and then I wrote a response to that to try to explain where my head was at. I would have thought you to at the very least be interested in that response? Idk. I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing most of the time so fuckin' just ignore me I guess I'll be over in this corner babbling like an idiot.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Because I wasn't focussed on you at the time, I was focussed on other things/people.In post 294, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why didn't you take issue with this before?In post 289, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.In post 285, Gamma Emerald wrote:
About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"In post 282, ActionDan wrote:VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.
Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.
I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Yeah, you have fired from the hip an awful lot, so I think I am just going to take your opinion with a grain of salt.In post 299, Llamarble wrote:I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.In post 303, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: Postie
I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to meI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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OK, really tho, if you want to take that angle, you are already assuming a Town motivation for Dunn, when there is no indication of such. You can't read into naked votes in terms of motivation because it lacks any sort of internal context. What's worse than just assuming Dunn is Town voting a SR, is to say Dunn is Bussing. I mean that is such a leap of logic, it's not even funny. Like where is the evidence for that, at all?In post 306, northsidegal wrote:
i think this is a mistake, and i think you made the same mistake in your initial analysis of the wagon – just because dunnstral didn't say anything else or other people didn't make a lot of comments on their votes, that doesn't mean that there's nothing to analyze. the lack of comment is information in itself. i agree with others in that your analysis in 199 is largely superficial, but i'm not entirely sure how it relates to your alignment as of yet.In post 289, LicketyQuickety wrote:Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.
Now if someone wants to point out an error of logic I have made in stating that you can't analyze naked votes, then I expect a full explanation as to how you can assume someone making a naked vote is Town with regards to the context of the vote and what is happening ITT.
This is all I can really do to analyze Dunn's vote on Marqu:
Marq randomly votes North.
Marq bitches about the game which is evidence that their previous vote was just a random vote on someone who had tied the amount of posts as someone else.
Postie asks Marqu why they voted north. Postie had voted North pretty much as soon as North entered the thread which was a single post before Marqu's naked vote.
Marqu says "prolly the same reason you did" which further implies the vote was random considering it's still RVS at this point.
Marqu makes an completely ambiguous reads list considering they had Postie at the top and North at that bottom and everyone else in the middle as Null. This is Marqu trying to get the game going IMO, which is not necessarily a Town tell, but is more of an indication of Town than Scum.
Then there is some surface level observation by Postie and North. It's still RVS.
Then Dunn votes Marqu.
The only pattern I can see is that people are voting active players and that's about all I can really say about it. It doesn't say anything about anyone's alignments at all.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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IDGAF what something feels like. Feels means pretty much nothing in this game.In post 311, Tchill13 wrote:
Why GE? PostieIn post 304, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.In post 303, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: Postie
I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to melike they're too worried about the wording of their post.feels
If you can say exactly what Postie said that makes you feel that way, and it has some solid backing on it, I'll reconsider. But just stating something feel a certain way means pretty much nothing to me.
And North had the exact interpretation that I mean, and the fact that they are point that out is a decent indication that they are Town.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Mulch says I've been Townie and that I should not be read based on tone. He also says that he was pissed off when he made the original comment.In post 317, Postie wrote:
Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?In post 249, LicketyQuickety wrote:I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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He also said first that I should be read based on my style of play, which I think is more accurate than reading me on tone because I believe I am very easy to read based on tone if you have decent meta on me. That said, my playstyle has changed a bit. I can link games to show this. The change I have tried to make is to not be as much of a jerk, to not fire from the hip as much and think more about the conclusions I am making before I make them, and try not to get so emotionally invested in games.In post 318, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Mulch says I've been Townie and that I should not be read based on tone. He also says that he was pissed off when he made the original comment.In post 317, Postie wrote:
Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?In post 249, LicketyQuickety wrote:I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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What do you mean they seem more methodical? This is the same thing as saying Posties post's feel a certain way. I have no idea what you are talking about unless you show your work. Otherwise I am going to do what newbs do and look to see if I can see the angle that Posties posts look methodical and then I would ofc see that angle and think you are right.In post 320, Tchill13 wrote:LQ I was afraid you had gotten more pleasant to play with since our last encounter lol. Her posts seem very methodical. Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?
Postie could be being coached. I am not ruling that out. It's especially true if Postie is on RC's team. I already thought of that, I just didn't comment on it because it's pretty much impossible to prove.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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OK, so why do you, Postie, have an unpopular opinion?In post 323, Postie wrote:Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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North I have no problem being on the Town block. Not sold on Llama tho.In post 337, EddieFenix wrote:
Good to see you're taking a step back to think on things.In post 299, Llamarble wrote:I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.
NSG vs LQ is TvT to me. I'd like at least a 6 person town block (the 3 that are on there + LQ, Marble, and NSG if they would be so kind to join us) to turn up the heat on that GE wagon, please and thank you.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Llama has so far been a vary chaotic player. As such, I think those sorts of players are the type you can't get a solid read on right away. That's why I am hesitant to put them in a Town core. It's not even that I SR Ll, it's that I don't feel comfortable giving a solid read on that slot yet, if that makes sense.In post 339, EddieFenix wrote:I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
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Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.In post 366, Thestatusquo wrote:Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.
Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?
LQ, same question.
What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.
I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.
As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.
Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
Normally, I would agree with not going after lurkers D1 and hold off until D2... But...In post 377, EddieFenix wrote:
-whacks with logic stick- no lurker hunts day 1! That's the easy way out.In post 375, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.In post 366, Thestatusquo wrote:Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.
Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?
LQ, same question.
What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.
I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.
As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.
Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.
This is not a normal game. This is a game within a game of meta information. As such, I am not really going after lurkers, but going after the players who are producing the least amount of content, or in otherwords, the players who are providing the least amount of information for the meta game.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.