Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Taly]

Anenien

, I would throw a pigeon at you but I guess my vote will have to settle.

VOTE: Anenien

doomfeathers

if you want a wagon, then join my push.

[Taly]

Out of the entire player-list, the only people I'm familiar with are

Anenien

and

texcat(?)

. But the games I had with them were 2-3 years ago. I don't even remember what the games were, or our alignments.

This is my first game in 2 years...
I can't give accurate information on my meta, since my view of Mafia has changed since then.

doomfeathers

was quick to follow my RVS vote, but he's pushing for conversation which is helpful to the town. It's too early to have a confident read.

Why did you switch onto

Anenien's

wagon instead of waiting for

Almost50's

response to your vote?

VOTE: Creature

No posts yet. Must've rolled Scum. If this gets prodded/replaced it's 99.99% it IS a Scum role.

Do you have any games on him? Is he consistent?

Anenien

, I posted since your original RVS vote on me, and you don't have anything to say?

[Taly]

Shadpearl's

initial post in 43 - That's his second post on the site and he notes that it's a good thing to have progression in the game. My gut tells me this is genuine town. This isn't a strong read, but those are my thoughts.

Furthermore, this quote is not at all guarded, I feel scum would be much more cautious.

If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

@Shadpearl

, what is your read on

doomfeathers

? You stated that you appreciated his game, but here, you say that his lynch should be later in the game.

Anenien, I posted since your original RVS vote on me, and you don't have anything to say?

Your RVS (Which I liked) and the post with this, that's all I saw.
But nothing particularly townish or scummy stood out.

So, no.

Mmm, my read on you is still unclear.

What leads you to believe

doomfeathers

and

Shadpearl

are buddies?

Do you have any games on him? Is he consistent?

Creature's meta is well known to the whole site (and I suspect other sites too). The guy just hates to play Scum and he either lurks it out until lynched/replaced or posts nonsense on intervals and still gets lynched.

As Town though, Creature is sensible and has some depth. Some would even argue he has damn good reads as Town too.

I'm going to look through his games then, could you link any one that have finished?

doomfeathers

was quick to follow my RVS vote

Of all things about

doomfeathers

why is this the thing that concerns you?

1)

He didn't wait for

Almost50's

response to his RVS vote on him. 3 and 16

2)

He didn't resist me when I prompted him to follow my vote.

I have a conflicted read over this. He could be pushing for gameplay, but I don't like the sheeping, and I haven't seen enough to gauge his motivation.

~~~

doomfeathers

, what was the purpose of 29 and 30? You were talking about what you believe people are doing, but you didn't attach reads or questions to that.

Has anything changed within the past 25 posts?

[Taly]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Really? You're just going to sit on a vote without in-game information?

Odd.

Lalendra, Any comment on Jaydragon not doing anything but sheeping you?

Any comment on anything the past 5 pages?

Hey, I brought up the urge for someone to make an Avatar reference. You can atleast credit me for that.

Shitpost somewhere else.

But good to know you're posting in games other than this one.

And yeah Creature is 100% scum this game. Voting him isn't productive right now but we definitely lynch him later.

Creature wasn't even in the thread at the time of you stating this.

Has your read changed upon seeing him?

Spoiler: ISO on Doomfeathers + My Q's To Him + Vote Explanation

doomfeathers

, what was the purpose of 29 and 30? You were talking about what you believe people are doing, but you didn't attach reads or questions to that.

Irritation, mostly. I see no motivation for lurking beyond purposely making it hard for others to read you, so when more people do it than we could possibly have on the scumteam, it kind of ticks me off. It seems as though townies are purposely acting scummy so they can get away with doing it sometime when they're playing scum.

Besides, that early in the game, there's not much to judge. Now, on the other hand, we have three pages' worth of content, so patterns begin to become more apparent.

Yeah, I get that few posts can be a scumtell, but it's only the second day since the game began.

Why did you switch onto

Anenien's

wagon instead of waiting for

Almost50's

response to your vote?

My vote on Almost50 served no real purpose; single RVS votes can be ignored with no trouble. A mini-wagon is much more effective at moving things along. And I'm completely okay with occasionally sheeping and/or making deals to accomplish my goals. It worked; I got exactly what I wanted.

Solely to get reactions? I like that, I'm feeling a bit at ease with

doomfeathers

now...

Taly seriously leans town if he comes through with game results. I don't think scum would go to that much effort.

Nevermind. I don't need towncred-permission to look into something.

~~ Also, I don't quite get the coaching from

doomfeaters

for

Shadpearl

in this entire post. I assume

Shadpearl

knows how to play?

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

Players who have caught my notice:

Ausuka: Flies under the radar, but when she posts, it's got content. Town lean.

Almost50: Has been tunneling an inactive player, and lurking with semi-goofy posts like I've seen him do as scum--and he was scary good. Scum lean.

Lalendra: Play looks a little simplistic, but I'm not seeing scum motivations yet. Null-town.

Kopherald: Whatever they are, they're intimidating. I'll give them a slight town lean for now. Does anyone know how the leocrotta to read hydras?

profii: Play is about consistent with his account age, and he and I came to the same approximate conclusions about Shadpearl independently. Town lean.

Sando: He's been pinging my gut something awful. I can't wait until he gets back so I can find out whether my gut is right this time. No read yet.

havingfitz: I've seen him play as scum, and [points finger at screen like The Joker]. He's V/LA, yes, but you can tell the difference by what he posts when he does post. He's dodging attention.

VOTE: havingfitz

This post comes out of left field. You state that you dislike all the wagons, but you jump on the one person who is VLA,

instead of going for your scumreads.

What makes this worse is this:

Isn't it a bit too early to say that on Page1? Plenty of players had posted nothing.

I mean not like page2 is much "better" (worse?)...

Yes, in fact, page 2 is far better than page 1 in terms of content. We're not in RVS anymore.

I'm now suspicious of Sando, but I'll save it until he's no longer V/LA.

Why didn't you vote for

Sando

with the same logic?

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

You hate all four wagons, but you don't comment on Anienen (Pigeonman). Please explain.

-Brass

I don't think there's any good reason to wagon him; he hasn't looked particularly scummy that I remember, and his votes were just leftover RVS. I can examine him if you wish.

Why not

JUST

examine him like someone who's trying to solve the game?

The V/LA argument is actually a good point, though not conclusive. I'll switch my vote for now, and keep you on my suspicious list until I see more.

VOTE: Almost50

So, the moment 'your wagon person' tells you a flaw in your vote, you change it and finally cast it on your active scumread, but with NO other prompt or reasoning.

Something about this vote strikes me diverting attention.

Almost50 hasn't even thrown suspicion on anyone who has posted, and seems to have purposely avoided posting. He's scummy; let's wagon him.

Pedit: Okay, so Creature isn't inactive anymore. My point still stands.

'Nother pedit: Sorry, I got my games mixed up then. I wasn't really engaged that game.

I'm sorry, I'm not a huge fan of

Almost50's

post either, but MOST of his posts have thrown suspicion, primarily onto

Creature

, his meta-scumread.

And what about your point on

Creature

still stands?

It sounds to me like you know more than what you're saying.

Would lynch either of Creature/doomfeathers right now. The associative tells are unbearably obvious there.

Probabilities:

Both Scum: 40%
Creature Scum and doom VI: 35%
doom Scum and Creature having a day off: 20%
Both Town and playing really bad: 5%

doom is more or less a noob. He also has something on me (because in the game he linked I was his scum p and I went on to win that game despite him having been lynched on D1, so he could be paranoid). However, I don't see why he jumped to defend Creature before even Creature had posted, given that my meta argument was accurate and supported by many others (doom may not know Creature's meta himself, but when several players back the argument up it must be true).

Creature is OMGUSy by nature, He hate to be wagoned as either alignment and could very well SR his voters, I admit. However, his entrance was HORRIBLE. The "Town?" comment on an opening post by doom was silly enough to earn Creature a SR on it's own, even if he had to retract it soon after. Creature is GOOD as Town, and would not have commented on that post AT ALL if he was Town here. The bad play/nonesense still points to Scum!Creature, especially since that comment came while he was catching up, thus should have yet seen what I said about him (i.e. no way he OMGUS SR'd me as Town!him would still)

Doomfeathers

is a noob... even though he's been here since 2016? Half of

Almost50's

posts have been theory versus actually scumhunting.

However,

Almost50

, since you forgot to link me any games of

Creature

, I did my own research, and concluded that there's nothing that outright strikes me as scum in his game so far, given how early we are in this game. Furthermore,

Creature

giving his thoughts on Page 4-5 does strike me as someone who's contributing, and it gives me a gut-Town read on him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: doomfeathers

6 pages in, and you are my most volatile read.

I feel that someone or both Doom and Almost are scum. They're scumreading each other, but they've been weird with votes:

84 and 91 for

Doom

~~ After voting

havingfitz

, for a reason that contradicted why he WOULDN'T vote

Sando

.
113 for

Almost50

~~ As he's throwing a big associative tell against

Doomfeathers

, but is still tunneling

Creature

since 26

I'm going to post a readslist soon, but I'm hungry.

P-Edit

Official Vote Count 1.2

Creature (4) - Sando, Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra

doomfeathers (3) - Ausuka, Aneninen, profii
Shadpearl (2) - Kopherald, havingfitz
Almost50 (2) - doomfeathers, Creature
Aneninen (1) - Taly
texcat (1) - JaydragonKing
Lalendra (1) - texcat


Not Voting (2) - TheGoldenParadox, blockcandy

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

I don't trust the people on

Creature's

wagon. It looks like he has been setup as an easy and early lynch target with all the "meta-scum" reads.

[Taly]

Right! So Taly's Scum if Creature's Scum, No doubt about it.

Wow, so having a contrasting thought process to you means I'm scum?

I've seen Town do this before, town loses. I've seen Scum do this before, Scum more often wins.

1- You asked if I had played with him. You didn't ask for links.

Wrong.

I'm going to look through his games then, could you link any one that have finished?

Thanks for misrepping me. Either you did this intentionally, or you're not paying attention to my posts.

Both, I don't like.

2- You did your own work and came to a conclusion that defies the established meta EVERYONE ON MS KNOWS about Creature.

You expect me to read all of someone's games in a day? I've got shit to do IRL.

However, I did read an ended game where he was Mafia. I didn't see too much difference in his posts there, to his posts now.

3- You're shading Lalendra for voting Creature based on HIS LACK OF ACTIVITY with a "Creature wasn't even in the thread at the time of you stating this"?? Well if he had we wouldn't be voting him in the first place.

Of course I'm calling

Lalendra's

vote-parking out.

62 - She chose to stick on a vote on someone that hasn't posted, and didn't make an effort to scumhunt.

Again, you're using meta to justify scum-associations without trying to understand someone elses view.

(Both for tunneling Creature, and creating a dichotomy where you associate Doom and I with him.)

4- Your "Almost50 ~~ As he's throwing a big associative tell against Doomfeathers, but is still tunneling Creature" is also sillier than silly, because I'm associating doom to Creature himself. Why should I go after the "branch" when I'm firmly grasping to the root itself.

Because you're not doing anything to reinforce

Creature-scum

other than meta, and statistics.

1)

You're not asking questions.

2)

You're not pushing other people for reads or thoughts.

3)

You're not questioning the people that follow your wagon.

4)

You're not explaining to me - someone who doesn't share your read on Creature - on why he's scum.

Instead, you're pointing a finger.

5-a- doom IS a noob, bu you're not reading,. (Skimming is a scumtell, btw. Weak, but a tell). doom himself says he hasn't played for a long time and has linked the last game he played here. Go check how long it was since then, and note that it was a Newbie game.

Who's skimming again? I've read the past several pages at least twice.

Also, I haven't played Mafia in 2 years, what of it?

5-b- OPr you could've just clicked his profile to see he has 695 posts overall, and 14 of those were made in THIS game (plus at least one in the signup thread). and 66 in the game he linked (in which he was lynched on DAY ONE), and you would have deduced he couldn't have played more than 3-4 games at best (unless he gets lynched on D1 EVERYTIME!)

I don't understand the point you're making here.

And don't tell me what I would've concluded. Your logic here borders on having people follow you without strong reason.

6- Where did I ever theorize anything? You're throwing words you don't even understand the meaning of.

26 You point out that

Creature

is very likely scum based on meta, you give a percentage, and do nothing else with your reads or stance.

Working theory?
Everyone is either a TPR, a VT, a Goon or a Serial Killer. Trust me.

This is useless information. Anyone who's read the setup would've known this.

113 Is you throwing a bunch of numbers while trying to rationalize your scum read on

Creature

by associating him with

Doomfeathers

.

I didn't setup spec, nor did I talk about the best course to play. THAT is theory. I'm making a case on someone based on his WELL ESTABLISHED meta, and trying to guess who might be scum with him based on their play IN-THREAD.

What turns me off about your push the most, is that you're using OUT-THREAD information to justify so much of your IN-THREAD perspective on the game.

I'm scum because I townread

Creature

? Because I didn't come to the same conclusion as you when I read his posts, both in this game, and in another?

ALSO, I SAID CREATURE WOULD COME UP WITH SOME JUNK IF HE EVER POSTED AND THE NEXT THING HE DOES IS QUESTION IF I HAD A SR ON HIM WHILE IN FACT I WAS AND STILL AM IN HIS WAGON FROM EVEN BEFORE HE POSTED.

Using AtE and talking down to me does not make me think your motivations are town-oriented. At all.

Your attempt to switch attention to doom now makes me thin doom IS being a bad townie here.

I'm sorry, did you read any of my posts? Please, I encourage you to ISO me.

I've replied, and asked questions to

Doomfeathers

since 11. How the hell would I have been switching attention onto

Doomfeathers

, when I've ALREADY been engaging with him?

You're going down next after Creature flips red.

Overconfidence.
If you're scum, you're trying to consolidate a mislynch or a wagon.
If you're not scum, they're very happy that you're here.

[Taly]

However, I did read an ended game where he was Mafia. I didn't see too much difference in his posts there, to his posts now.

Doesn't that support A50's Creature meta case? Which whether you believe Creature is displaying that meta in here or not... the meta in my experience is valid.

I didn't find anything alignment indicative, or something that I would consider to be a differentiation between town-meta and scum-meta of a person I don't even know. From what I've read, his posting style and tone are similar, even in a game I also looked in for town.

So I'm taking his posts in this thread off face-value. Furthermore, there's several other people in this game that's caught my attention with their posts, so I don't see the sense in pushing

Creature's

wagon at the moment.

@Taly; I already said that I now think Creature is town. What's happened since then only makes me more sure of that.

I don't like that I voted

Doomfeathers

, and yet there's suddenly 3 votes against

Almost50

when he tries to discredit my reasons.

(Sando, Shadpearl, and TheGoldenParadox)

I can't stay without any flips yet, but I feel like someone is either bussing, dismantling

doomfeathers'

wagon, or playing opportunistically here.

[Taly]

I said I'd do a readslist, so here are my thoughts.

Taly's D1 Page 6 Readslist

Spoiler: Town

Ausuka (Moderate Town)

- I like that they took issue with

Profii's

post on

Shadpearl

in Page 3. 74 They're filtering information and have had consistent reads.

Anenien (Town-Lean)

- He's currently pushed his scum read on

Doomfeathers

, after explaining that his motivations were in the intent to gain information. I think his posts are town-motivated. 35

JaydragonKing (Town-Lean)

- Originally, I thought he wasn't helpful, but his post about

TheGoldenParadox's

quickvote on the

Almost50

wagon AND associatives made me happy, especially since

GoldenParadox's

jump was right after my post on questioning

Almost50

and

Doomfeathers

scum. He seems to catch things a bit quickly.

Creature (Gut Town)

- I haven't seen enough to be very confident; but I don't think the quick, poorly-explained wagon on him was town-motivated. I'd see scum taking the opportunity to push him closer to a lynch. I want to see flips before I look more thoroughly at him.

havingfitz (Potential Town)

- VLA, understandably, so they haven't posted much. Yet, they've asked questions, and I haven't felt weird about reading their posts so far. 84 and 144

Kopherald (Potential Town)

- I'm uncertain here, but I feel that he's sorting the game out. I want to know more about his

doomfeathers

read.

Spoiler: Null

texcat (Pure Null)

- Nothing inherently scummy or towny. Still waiting on a reply from them.

blockcandy (Pure Null)

- Lurker or inactive.

Shadpearl (Gut Null)

- I wanted to say this guy is town because he wasn't guarded in his original post, but his vote in agreement of

TheGoldenParadox

could've easily been survivalistic.

proffi (Gut Null)

- Since his vote and read on

doomfeathers

, he hasn't responded or pushed much for his reasons. Can't get an accurate read yet.

Spoiler: Scum

Lalendra (Potential Scum)

- Voteparking on a wagon without someone present. Early townread on

Doomfeathers

who I scumread. 19 Little to no push or active scumhunting.

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Saldon (Potential Scum)

- On the

Creature

wagon. Was not voted by

Doomfeather

s for the same reason

Doomfeathers

voted

havingfitz

. Switched on

Almost50

wagon after I discredited the

Creature

wagon. May have solid reasoning, so this is not a confident read.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

I have 5 scumreads, at least 1 of them are town. So I'll reevaluate some of these reads later.

I want to see more

Doomfeathers

and other players, but currently, I am comfortable with my vote.

[Taly]

Spoiler: To Kopherald and Lalendra

As to the read on doomfeathers, I will allow the smart head to explain it rather than the asking questions head.

-Brass

I'd like to know both of your heads' thought on

doomfeathers

. I've hydra'd before, so I understand why it takes longer to formulate concrete heads when there are more than one head.

Right! So Taly's Scum if Creature's Scum, No doubt about it.

1- You asked if I had played with him. You didn't ask for links.
2- You did your own work and came to a conclusion that defies the established meta EVERYONE ON MS KNOWS about Creature.
3- You're shading Lalendra for voting Creature based on HIS LACK OF ACTIVITY with a "Creature wasn't even in the thread at the time of you stating this"?? Well if he had we wouldn't be voting him in the first place.
4- Your "Almost50 ~~ As he's throwing a big associative tell against Doomfeathers, but is still tunneling Creature" is also sillier than silly, because I'm associating doom to Creature himself. Why should I go after the "branch" when I'm firmly grasping to the root itself.
5-a- doom IS a noob, bu you're not reading,. (Skimming is a scumtell, btw. Weak, but a tell). doom himself says he hasn't played for a long time and has linked the last game he played here. Go check how long it was since then, and note that it was a Newbie game.
5-b- OPr you could've just clicked his profile to see he has 695 posts overall, and 14 of those were made in THIS game (plus at least one in the signup thread). and 66 in the game he linked (in which he was lynched on DAY ONE), and you would have deduced he couldn't have played more than 3-4 games at best (unless he gets lynched on D1 EVERYTIME!)
6- Where did I ever theorize anything? You're throwing words you don't even understand the meaning of. I didn't setup spec, nor did I talk about the best course to play. THAT is theory. I'm making a case on someone based on his WELL ESTABLISHED meta, and trying to guess who might be scum with him based on their play IN-THREAD.

ALSO, I SAID CREATURE WOULD COME UP WITH SOME JUNK IF HE EVER POSTED AND THE NEXT THING HE DOES IS QUESTION IF I HAD A SR ON HIM WHILE IN FACT I WAS AND STILL AM IN HIS WAGON FROM EVEN BEFORE HE POSTED.

Your attempt to switch attention to doom now makes me thin doom IS being a bad townie here. You're going down next after Creature flips red.

He did ask for links. Also Creature is not going to flip red, I'm pretty confident on that now. I find it weird that you're continuing to tunnel him and this isn't like your play last game I was in with you.

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

I said I'd do a readslist, so here are my thoughts.

Taly's D1 Page 6 Readslist

Spoiler: Town

Ausuka (Moderate Town)

- I like that they took issue with

Profii's

post on

Shadpearl

in Page 3. 74 They're filtering information and have had consistent reads.

Anenien (Town-Lean)

- He's currently pushed his scum read on

Doomfeathers

, after explaining that his motivations were in the intent to gain information. I think his posts are town-motivated. 35

JaydragonKing (Town-Lean)

- Originally, I thought he wasn't helpful, but his post about

TheGoldenParadox's

quickvote on the

Almost50

wagon AND associatives made me happy, especially since

GoldenParadox's

jump was right after my post on questioning

Almost50

and

Doomfeathers

scum. He seems to catch things a bit quickly.

Creature (Gut Town)

- I haven't seen enough to be very confident; but I don't think the quick, poorly-explained wagon on him was town-motivated. I'd see scum taking the opportunity to push him closer to a lynch. I want to see flips before I look more thoroughly at him.

havingfitz (Potential Town)

- VLA, understandably, so they haven't posted much. Yet, they've asked questions, and I haven't felt weird about reading their posts so far. 84 and 144

Kopherald (Potential Town)

- I'm uncertain here, but I feel that he's sorting the game out. I want to know more about his

doomfeathers

read.

Spoiler: Null

texcat (Pure Null)

- Nothing inherently scummy or towny. Still waiting on a reply from them.

blockcandy (Pure Null)

- Lurker or inactive.

Shadpearl (Gut Null)

- I wanted to say this guy is town because he wasn't guarded in his original post, but his vote in agreement of

TheGoldenParadox

could've easily been survivalistic.

proffi (Gut Null)

- Since his vote and read on

doomfeathers

, he hasn't responded or pushed much for his reasons. Can't get an accurate read yet.

Spoiler: Scum

Lalendra (Potential Scum)

- Voteparking on a wagon without someone present. Early townread on

Doomfeathers

who I scumread. 19 Little to no push or active scumhunting.

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Saldon (Potential Scum)

- On the

Creature

wagon. Was not voted by

Doomfeather

s for the same reason

Doomfeathers

voted

havingfitz

. Switched on

Almost50

wagon after I discredited the

Creature

wagon. May have solid reasoning, so this is not a confident read.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

I have 5 scumreads, at least 1 of them are town. So I'll reevaluate some of these reads later.

I want to see more

Doomfeathers

and other players, but currently, I am comfortable with my vote.

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

WOW.
I don't even know where to start with this post, beyond this post being an entire misrep.

1)

I never said

Almost50

was my strongest scumread. He was classified as

(Scum) -exactly-

like

Doomfeathers.

2)

If you actually looked at my post; you'd know that I had an ISO on

Doomfeathers

that initially constituted my vote on him.

3)

Part of my thought process on

Almost50

and

Doomfeathers

being scum is that they're possibly a pair. I'm prioritizing my vote on

Doomfeathers

to gauge a more confident read on him, since I stated that he was my most volatile read. 128

4)

Right after my post in voting

Doomfeathers

, you jumped on

Almost50's

wagon without anything but associative-speculation. 139
- By doing this, you detract from my reads and information. You're also distancing yourself by going on another wagon that others have followed on. 133 and 142

5)

If you agree with

Almost50

being scum, why are you trying to incriminate me by misconstruing my reads?

This post by

TheGoldenParadox

does not strike me as Town questioning a wagon or read at all.

Specifically since you didn't follow up your question with another, or an explanation of your thoughts. You threw an "FOS" and didn't even add your vote to it. It sounds to me like you're being disingenuous by not pushing your own thoughts.

By "FOS" and question; you're swapping attention back at me and trying discrediting my wagon on

Doomfeathers

, even though you already did that with a rogue vote on

Almost50

; which I heavily doubt you thought of that on your own, given I had already posted before twice on my scumreads on him and

Doomfeathers

prior that.

~~~~

The only thing that's keeping me from voting and spearheading a

TheGoldenParadox

wagon/lynch is because I haven't heard from

Doomfeathers

since my vote on him.

But yeah... It's nice to see that neither

Doomfeathers

or

Almost50

have looked into the thread since then.

Though, I'm giving

Doomfeathers

some leeway, he hasn't been online since he last posted yesterday.

Almost50

is actively posting in another game.

[Taly]

Spoiler: Why Lalendra Is A Town-Lean To Me Now

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

I didn't feel the need to comment, I did think that the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

I like that you didn't try and alter the message I sent about my read on you. That's a response I haven't gotten in the past 2 pages.

Obviously I disagree with your read on me, but I'm consistently scumread as town so it wasn't surprising and I didn't feel the need to argue. Either my play will change your mind, or it won't. Meh?

I sympathize a lot with this post. Before I returned, I was wagoned in almost all of my games, and I almost always rolled Town in them.

Furthermore, you not arguing shows a focus other than the people who scumread you. I think that's more often town-motivated.

I do agree with your SR of A50 currently, based on them misrepping you and blatant ATE which I don't remember him doing as town.

I'm confident of Creature's towniness because now that he has started posting, this is very much his town game. The fact that A50 continues to push him despite that, while claiming to know his meta, raises alarms.

Actually you know what, fuck it. I'm confident enough to place my vote here for now.

VOTE: Almost50

Could you elaborate on your personal meta-read with Creature? Also, what do you think about

TheGoldenParadox's

149

But yeah... It's nice to see that neither Doomfeathers or Almost50 have looked into the thread since then.

Though, I'm giving Doomfeathers some leeway, he hasn't been online since he last posted yesterday.

Almost50 is actively posting in another game.

I hadn't even gotten to this yet but yeah, that's definitely not a good sign.

I'm not sure how I feel about a DF/A50 scumteam, I need to see more from DF and I'm not comfortable reading into pre-flip associatives.

This is the main reason why I'm feeling Lalendra is Town.

I like that she's weary of pre-flip association tells, and that she's not letting suspicion control her vote.

I can't say the same thing for

TheGoldenParadox

or

Almost50

right now.

~~~~~

Spoiler: Q's To Anenien

Mmm, my read on you is still unclear.

No surprise. At that time my ISO consisted of 4 posts. What sort of read did you want to gain out of those?

It's not about what I want, rather, whether I felt that your response was more scum-motivated or town-motivated.

Since that post, I gave a reinforced read on you in 148

Lalendra's 67 sounded scummy. Gut-read.

Doomfeathers's 75 is a readlist... but it's too detailed compared to it's early-ness.

Creature sounds different to his town-game. I don't know why, but it reminds me of Mastina a bit. (The short-poster one, not the wall one.)

I still don't understand why 1/3 of the playerlist's view of Creature is based on meta.

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

Weird... I had a kind of similar feeling.

Taly's 148. If both Doomfeathers and Almost50 are town, Taly's scum.

Ewww. Dichotomies.

I've decided I don't need a response.
VOTE: TGP
This looks like his scum game to me. I've seen it before.
-Brass

What if Paradox was right?
Answer: Kopherald might be scum with any of those.

Paradox

is right about what?

1)

If you mean the associations he stated in 139, we can't accurately dignify that without a flip.

2)

If you mean him FoS-ing me because "I'm voting for

Doom

but

Almost50's

my top scumread" - then it's wrong, because neither of them are more scum-sounding to me than the other currently.

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

Care to elaborate on that?

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

So I'm not considered scum to you now.

But would be in the event that my scumread flips town?

Ehhhh... I don't agree with this thought pattern, but I don't know if that's your playstyle.

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

What if I told you I was Masons with Kopherald (figuratively, of course), would you take my word for it?

I don't think so.
Why need I?

I know

Anenien

said it was in his self-meta to say that he doesn't read the setup rules.

But I feel it's more of a town-tell for

Anenien

to not know that masons don't exist in this setup.

~~~~~

Spoiler: Reply To Sando

I responded NAI to "Taly voting doom over A50". My TGP vote is unrelated to this response.

I still don't get it, are you say it's NAI for Paradox is point the FOS or that it's NAI for Taly to vote Doom over A50?

Taly's 167 strikes me as a massive over-reaction to a poor post, hits me as a very (frustrated) townie reaction but it makes me worry about the reads a bit.

Creature answers this in 175 I believe. NAI means Not-Alignment-Indicative, right?

Also, I don't think my post to

Almost50

was an overreaction. He misrepped a post, and showed me holes to his argument that I voiced my opinion on.

187

This gives me a decent idea of Sando's perspective of the game, however I do have some general questions:

I'm assuming you mean me? I think the Creature wagon is a good investigative point for us. I'm happy to put my reasoning and actions up against the others on the wagon:

I'm not sure what you're meaning here. You say that Creature is a good person to investigate, but you're discrediting people that were on the wagon.

Since your vote has changed, I'm guessing you're now thinking Creature is playing more like town? Is that based on meta or independent thoughts based on gameplay?

Better question; your vote on Creature was RVS. Did you expect a response to that?

That said Taly, why do A50, Lalendra and me get a "Creature wagon was scummy" but Shadperl doesn't get a mention?

From 128, I stated that I didn't trust the intention of the people on the wagon. I wasn't excluding

Shadpearl

from that.

But, unlike the three of you, my initial gut read on

Shadpearl

was noobtown as I stated in 58, since this game marks their first posts on the site.

While that read has dissipated when I gave him a gut-null in my recent readslist, that's why my read on him was slightly different than what I had on you,

Lalendra

, and

Almost50

.

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

Um... then why don't you respond to the reasons of being voted? Or ask for them?

Better yet, why not reply to my response to you 167 or try to justify your reasons of suspicion, and/or your vote on

Almost50

.

[Taly]

You say that Creature is a good person to investigate, but you're discrediting people that were on the wagon.

What? I'm saying the Creature

WAGON

is a good investigation point, not Creature himself. I'm agreeing with you that we should look at the people on the wagon.

Sorry, I misinterpreted that.

Creature answers this in 175 I believe. NAI means Not-Alignment-Indicative, right?

I'm trying to confirm what Creature is saying is NAI, I posed two possibilities there. "Is it X or is it Y that you find NAI, Creature?"

Since your vote has changed, I'm guessing you're now thinking Creature is playing more like town? Is that based on meta or independent thoughts based on gameplay?

Better question; your vote on Creature was RVS. Did you expect a response to that?

Both meta and independent gameplay, which I think I've made fairly clear. He's well outside his scum-meta, and I think apart from some OMGUS I think he's scumhunting quite well and making good reads. Both of these I outline in my attack on A50.

I expected Creature to either continue to lurk and confirm himself as scum, or become active and participate in the game and I'd move on from the meta read.

One of those has come to pass.

What reads are good reads to you?

@ The bold and underlined part; are you meaning that you haven't gauged the reaction you're expecting from

Creature

?

I feel like I'm having trouble following some of your thoughts.

But, unlike the three of you, my initial gut read on Shadpearl was noobtown as I stated in 58, since this game marks their first posts on the site.

This seems like you're really desperate to read him noobtown and avoid actually looking at him.

Did you read my readslist, and my response to your previous post?

No. My gut townread on

Shadpearl

dropped around 50 posts ago.

Also, in my readslist, I showed my uncertainty of my

Shadpearl

read, wondering the motivation of his vote and how he works.

I don't like that I voted Doomfeathers, and yet there's suddenly 3 votes against Almost50 when he tries to discredit my reasons.
(Sando, Shadpearl, and TheGoldenParadox)

I can't stay without any flips yet, but I feel like someone is either bussing, dismantling doomfeathers' wagon, or playing opportunistically here.

I also was suspicious of his vote as well.

I'll look into S

hadpearl's

wagon and an ISO on them in a post or so. I haven't pushed him yet because I've had more attention-grabbing scumreads since then.

On the Creature wagon. Was not voted by Doomfeathers for the same reason Doomfeathers voted havingfitz. Switched on Almost50 wagon after I discredited the Creature wagon. May have solid reasoning, so this is not a confident read.

Shadpearl was also on the Creature wagon. Shadpearl also switched onto the Almost50 wagon once Creature wagon was over, and has not provided any independent reasoning for any of it. I'd say that by any metric, if you're reading me scumlean based on those two things (and a scumlink I think you're saying with Doom) then Shadpearl is worse on the Creature wagon and A50. Yet you read town-noob?

Shadpearl has posted 4 times, 1 of which was a nothing post, so 3 actual posts. In those he's done two of the things you're saying is scumlean on me, and I'd say he's done them in a worse manner with basically no independent thought...

yet you're falling back on noob-town.

Reread my readslist

Do you see

Shadpearl

in the town area?

Furthermore, don't twist the reason I put you as (Potential Scum). .....

Saldon (Potential Scum)

- On the

Creature

wagon.

Was not voted by

Doomfeathers

for the same reason

Doomfeathers

voted

havingfitz

. Switched on

Almost50

wagon after I discredited the

Creature

wagon. May have solid reasoning,

so this is not a confident read

.

Read what's underlined.

1)

I was unsure about

Doomfeathers'

inconsistency in votes in relation to you.

2)

Similar to the read on

Shadpearl

, it's not a solid one.

Even now, my read on you is up in the air at the moment. I replied to you so I can have a better idea of your thought process.

But apparently, I wonder if you and I are misunderstanding each other here.

[Taly]

Post incoming. I haven't had a moment to myself today, and I have to rest soon.

[Taly]

I need some inspiration to play this game.

There are way too many scummy players.

@This quote and your post about post count.

1)

Do you have an opinion on

Almost50's

recent posts? He's becoming more active.

2)

Instead of saying there are too many scummy players, you could ask questions to try and alleviate some of them...

Any questions to me, specifically?

3)

Content > Quantity in posts.

4)

Be less apathetic and maybe you'll work up inspiration.

Spoiler: Response to Sando's 204 post

204

Sando

, I read this post, and yes, I do see your issue with the reads.

But let me be clear here.

Neither you or

Shadpearl

were confident reads I had on my list, and I wasn't stating that what

Shadpearl

did was less odd in my eyes than what you did. Also, I stated that I didn't trust the reasons for the

Creature

wagon, and I recognized that your vote on

Creature

was RVS.

I didn't trust the vote migration onto

Almost50

because of the amount of how quick the votes were, and in my mind, not a lot of stated reasoning above what I said myself in the post where I voted

Doomfeathers

.

I don't formulate solid reads a lot. My initial gut on

Shadpearl

was what made me question him, but place him as null. My read on him, and the read on you, were not based on 100% same reasoning, like what you're insinuating...

Currently, I'm still sorting you and

Shadpearl

out, and my reads have changed to a degree, and will likely change when I look up people more in depth this weekend.

Spoiler: Reply To Shadpearl's 215

At first glance, I'm liking 215 because it raises questions and pushes for conversation with a lot of people. This is not something that strikes me as scum or anti-town.

Taly - why would you post such a long and accurate list of your thoughts? You are basically begging for people to tear it to shreds and if you are right, aren't you painting a target on your back? [...] Why give out all this information so freely?

The more opinions I tell, the less I have to hide. The more communication I have with people, the less other people will have to hide.

The reasons for my posting style are 2-folded.

1)

Sometimes, my own thoughts aren't grounded or solid. So when I construct them in coherent analysis, it helps me organize my thoughts, even if they aren't always defined.

2)

I want people to tear at my posts. It's a great way to see reactions, and how people are thinking. Later in the game, posts that are stated now could be pivotal in an endgame scenario, and how people view them post-flip.

If I'm not being misread, questioned, pressured, or wagoned at some point in game, then I'm doing something wrong.

Spoiler: Doomfeathers' Recent Posts

241

I've read

Doomfeathers'

post and I'm seeing his POV a lot more now, which I see as taking time to formulate thoughts instead of impulsively jumping on an idea.

I especially liked him pointing out my point in 245, and explaining his thoughts against my reasons for voting him. That's something refreshing...

I am curious though;

1)

What are your thoughts of

TheGoldenParadox's

play and wagon so far?

2)

What's your read on

Lalendra

? I feel like there's a good portion of the town polarized on her.

Spoiler: Answering and Q's To Anenien

But why? Only because of the thing explained in 148?

At that time, yes. With more posts, there's more to look at.

His scumplay is said to be very different to his townplay. I'm sheeping others. But this game is far from his townplay. So...

What's different from his townplay than here? Am I missing something?

What have you expected on early-mid-Day1? Detailed cases with VCAs, wagon movements, flips, Vaporeon, etc?

Town can be wrong. Pre-flip associations and making defined statements revolving around them could do more harm than good.

Paradox: Creature, Doomfeathers or Almost50 is scum. I guess it's possible that more of them.
1. Indeed.
2. Kopherald posted that he didn't need an answer. That.

So you're thinking

Kopherald

knows something we don't?

The first one was partly a kind of joke. Since my return it has happened to me more than once.
The second one: even I knew that there are no Masons. What are you talkong about?

I haven't read the Setup thoroughly.

I wondered how much you read into the setup, so I replied taking it at face value.

OK, Creature can be Town for now, which means I TR the entire wagon on TGP, but I'm not sure he is scum.

I'm fairly confident on doom being Scum though so..

VOTE: doomfeathers

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

What gives you the impression of

TheGoldenParadox

being town? I'm not seeing it.

There are people with a track record of reading creature 100% across dozens of games through meta. Creats is not exactly the hard-to-st=ort type. He always lurks hard as scum.

Ugh.... I hate the crutch that some players on here are using in throwing a vote on

Creature

.

You're not even going to reply to my response to your FoS?

There's plenty of content right now to look outside of him. I'm going to look into his games again.

i'm lurking here b/c i'm not enjoying this game at all and i'm quickly losing motivation to play.

Does this give you motivation?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Since

doomfeathers'

posts alleviated some of my suspicions, I'm done keeping my vote in one place. This is my most solid scumread. Even moreso than

Almost50

at this point.

Why are you in the game if you're uninterested like this? I haven't seen town do this.
This rings to me as scum who's waiting for something more desirable of a wagon to come along without throwing themselves out there.

~~~

As I've said, when I get time, I'll look more in depth into some people.

[Taly]

Spoiler: ISO on Lalendra

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

Honestly it's less a pressure vote and more of a "this is the most likely scum for me as of right now" vote. Obviously I am still looking for scum, as it's

possible

Creature is town and there's another explanation - it's not likely though, based on my previous games with him.

I know this was stated earlier in the game, but other than

Almost50

, is there anyone that catches your attention? Also, he's become more active.

But I'm keeping my options open, which was the reason for the disclaimer with my vote. I don't want to speedlynch because if we do, we'll have less information to go off of (which is another likely reason he's not participating); I would have been more cautious with my vote if he was close to hammer but he's not.

This is why

Lalendra

leans more town to me, especially since this is D1. She'd rather gather information instead of pushing something without little reason. What concerns me is, I don't think she's pushed her reads or votes that much.

Are you expecting a reaction to something?

Considering that his entrance is pretty typical of his playstyle and that he is now active and engaged, I'm okay with placing him in the townpile now. The OMGUS response is typical of him, as A50 pointed out.

I don't see anything in

Creature's

ISO that tells me he was OMGUSing. Are you referring to a specific post?

166 Is where

Creature

pointed out that his OMGUSing toward

Almost50

wasn't true.

Official Vote Count 1.2

Creature (4) - Sando, Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra
doomfeathers (3) - Ausuka, Aneninen, profii
Shadpearl (2) - Kopherald, havingfitz
Almost50 (2) - doomfeathers, Creature
Aneninen (1) - Taly
texcat (1) - JaydragonKing
Lalendra (1) - texcat


Not Voting (2) - TheGoldenParadox, blockcandy

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

(expired on 2018-03-19 22:00:00)

Bah I forgot
UNVOTE:

.....Eh, I can see why people would find this scummy, but I think scum would pay more attention to votes in this manner?

Brass, I like your play so far this game so I'm interested in hearing more about why you're confident on your TGP scumread.

Could you elaborate on your personal meta-read with Creature? Also, what do you think about TheGoldenParadox's 149

I was in this game with him where he was town IC, and his posting style was very similar to here - didn't make his entrance til post 124, and then would respond to posts with one-line or one-word posts.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74442

Similar meta here as VT.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74021

I think 149 is iffy, it was a misrep but could be rooted in misunderstanding. I'm not getting strong town-vibes from TGP but the wagon seems opportunistic so I'm staying off of it til I have a better reason to get on.

1)

THANK GOD. Someone is giving a meta read while linking something to support it. I'll look into it.

2)

I haven't liked any of

TheGoldenParadox's

replies to his wagon since that post, and by extension, this post as well. Has your thoughts on the wagon changed?

3)

What strikes

Kopherald

as town to you? He's one of the people I've seen the town be a little divided on.

Spoiler: ISO on Kopherald

50 77 102

These posts are mostly asking questions to players. I know that doesn't state much, however, I feel comfortable knowing that

Kopherald

is one of the people who ARE trying to figure things out...

VOTE: Shadpearl

My question still stands to Pigeonman, I don't get the associative, but see Shadpearl as scum.

Also, I like our tags working, other head.

-Brass

What do you think of 215?

I've decided I don't need a response.

VOTE: TGP

This looks like his scum game to me. I've seen it before.

-Brass

As to the read on doomfeathers, I will allow the smart head to explain it rather than the asking questions head.

-Brass

Brass, I like your play so far this game so I'm interested in hearing more about why you're confident on your TGP scumread.

I've played with TGP before, and as town, each one time, and then I looked a bit into his meta when I saw the major difference.

TGP just has a strange dichotomy in town and scum game, where his scum play has weird ways of fake scum hunting where he claims to want to sort out people by lynching others from what I recall of his scum game. Town game, he was much more straigthforward, voting for his scum reads, even sharing a bit less information about supposedly trying to sort people.

I know he has only posted three times, but two of those three look like his scum play to me, and nothing like his town plays.

-Brass

Doomfeathers

and

TheGoldenParadox

have both posted since these quotes. Has your opinions' changed?

Also, if your vote on him has meta-reasoning, do you have a specific ended game in mind?

TGP, A50 and doomfeathers are clearly on the same level on this list.

Paradox wasn't, and I usually assume scumreads are in order one way or the other myself. :shrug:

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

That should have been "@TGP, A50 and doomfeathers are clearly on the same level on the list"

I did not realize until now it was unclear.

-Brass

At that time,

TheGoldenParadox

was the least of my scumreads.

Now, it's more like the opposite. My views on

Almost50

haven't changed much at all, and I'm leaning back to town with

doomfeathers

.

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to alignment?

Because scum already know who is town and who is scum. Sure it's possible to fake long-winded readslists as scum, but imo, this type of thinking-out-loud posting usually comes from town.

It isn't always the case, I've seen some really strong scum players make big posts, and create strong arguments that usually give strong town vibes.

In usual cases, the amount of effort being put in by players are often transparent and you can sense which alignment it is coming from.

- Kop

In that case, have you formulated a solid read through my posts? Do you have anything to ask me?

Spoiler: ISO on Shadpearl

There's so few posts here that there's not much to pick at t that I haven't already reread, or mentioned. I don't think that necessarily indicates alignment, though.

The Golden Paradox... Your avatar is so cool. I'll be really bummed if he's a killer. x) He came to the same conclusion I did (close enough at least) so I'll back it. Votes aren't lifelines and I'm supposed to use 'my vote and my intellect' right? On the first page? Har har?

No questions or statements toward

TheGoldenParadox

? He's got a wagon, and to my opinion, he's responded very poorly to it.

Anenien - I was really hoping to get more of an explanation of what was supposedly different about Tex's game? But he/she? didn't really give much which WOULD be suspicious, I think, but their post seemed so helpful. I'm torn. Sorry I don't have more to add. >~<

ISO

Texcat

and give me your analsysis on her.

I'm liking

Kopherald

for town right now.
Jury is still up on

Lalendra

, but I still feel she's town.
I'm not interested in pushing

Shadpearl

at the moment.

Going to look at

Texcat

,

profii

, and someone else in more detail in a post or two.

What gives you the impression of

TheGoldenParadox

being town? I'm not seeing it.

Did I bloody say he was Town? I said I'm

not sure

he's Scum. "not sure" =/= "is not"

Cool.... You could explain why. Also;

OK, Creature can be Town for now, which means I TR the entire wagon on TGP, but I'm not sure he is scum.

I'm fairly confident on doom being Scum though so..

VOTE: doomfeathers

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

1)

You haven't elaborated too much on your

Doomfeathers

read, specifically since he's recently posted.
- It's unconvincing to bring attention to

Doomfeathers

without a revised case.

2)

Also, you're setting up a dichotomy between yourself and

Doomfeathers

. Assuming you're town, why would you want to narrow a D1 wagon and/or lynch with yourself as a candidate?
- Especially if you're uncertain with

TheGoldenParadox's

alignment.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I am.

234 do you have any thought over this opening post?

[Taly]

why would you want to narrow a D1 wagon and/or lynch with yourself as a candidate?

Regardless of alignment, nobody really wants to get lynched (this an open setup and we are guaranteed there are no Jesters, no Vengeful Townies .. etc.), so it follows when somebody (me) says they want to be pitted against C it means they are 100% X is scum.

Yeah... I don't buy this

at all

.

1)

How, as Town, would you have 100% certainty of someone's alignment? That tunnel-vision is much more dangerous than you think.

2)

Nobody should willingly be lynched; but what's the purpose of stating that here? Are you looking to be a martyr for your case against

Doomfeathers

?

If you're truly town and doing this, don't. Because you can't be this certain without more information that isn't generated in D1. (Because no flips,
therefore, minimal analysis and theories on someone's alignment.)

This is why dichotomies, mostly early-game, usually serve to divide the playerlist later in the game and makes scumhunting difficult.

3)

Your case on

Doomfeathers

is understated. I cannot "follow you" if I don't know why you're pushing someone.

[Taly]

Just letting everyone know; both

Almost50 and TheGoldenParadox

are at L-3

Spoiler: Responding To Almost50's 277

277

.... Honestly, I'm not frustrated... just in awe, it's getting to where it's almost funny.

Even if you wanted to; you wouldn't have enough money.

Hun, I can cash it all in the bank right now and I got enough security to keep it lock.

Oh wait, wrong color.

There.

Maybe I'm that bad, or maybe I'm that

good

!

Maybe - in the event you're town, you'll realize how this does not change or help anything.

Maybe - in the event you're scum, you won't realize anything because you're playing to your win condition.

You're not in a position to tell what I do/don't. You're not my WIFE!

...So, all forms of engagement I've tried with you have failed, solely off the principal that you don't care to listen?

I mean, that's what I'm getting here.

*shrug*

The point is to assert I am

too damn certain

of it.

....

Explain this thought process to me as if I were dumb, because I do not see how this is pro-town.

Listen. I've given you what I've got. Either lynch doom, lynch me, or do your own thing.

Sure. Try to be more coherent while

TheGoldenParadox's

wagon grows.

There's this thing we refer to as perception. Some have it and some don't.

True.

But some people use their perception to unify and spot town instead of ignoring them while they push an agenda without solid reasoning.

I didn't ask you to follow me. I asked that you look at us both and place a vote on the one you feel os scummier than the other.

Right now? Nope. I'm fine with my vote.

Though, I love how you transparently handwave dismissed all my questions and anything you COULD have responded to in my last 2 posts.

@Taly; I think that post is null.

Before any potential hammer happens; I want

Jimmy

to post his thoughts.

3)

Your case on

Doomfeathers

is understated. I cannot "follow you" if I don't know why you're pushing someone.

As far as I can tell the case is that Doom was associated (if only in the mind of A50) with Creature, and A50 was scumreading Creature at the time. I see no sign of an independent case on Doom. A50 even started to retract his read on Doom in

Tell me why

Almost50

is a better lynch than

TheGoldenParadox

.

Spoiler: How I'm Currently Reading The Wagons

Official Vote Count 1.4

Almost50 (6)

-

doomfeathers,

Sando,

TheGoldenParadox,

Shadpearl,

Lalendra

,

texcat

TheGoldenParadox (5)

-

JaydragonKing,

Kopherald,

Ausuka,

Creature,

Taly,

profii (As of 291)

Not Voting (1) - JimmyUrineMoneyShot

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Notes: havingfitz is V/LA until March 13[/b]
(expired on 2018-03-19 22:00:00)

Shadpearl actually voted Almost50 after Paradox did. Creature and I were the other votes on Almost50 at the time.

I know, but I was emphasizing my case on

TheGoldenParadox's

vote independently.

It was a two-line FOS. While I agree that Paradox is scummy, aren't you overreacting a bit? It looked like an honest mistake to me.

Mmmm.... Yes and no. I could have changed my tune, I wasn't upset, honestly.

But I took issue with multiple things in that FoS, that I've already stated. Which, on top of quite a few other things I haven't been fond of about

TheGoldenParadox's

play, strengthened my scumread on him progressively.

Questions to Taly about drawing fire: Posting your thoughts makes you easier to read, and thus works toward the Town win condition.

Good. That's the point.

As for getting shot, it doesn't really help anything to survive by playing poorly; scum are going to shoot town anyway. If enough people wear targets, scum won't be able to shoot them all. That's how I see it. Getting shot doesn't mean you lose; your victory is dependent on that of your team, so you can win while dead. If you get killed in the process of winning, that means you're playing well.

I don't care if I'm NKed.

As long as my thoughts and voice are known until the point I can't let them be known anymore, then I played to my win condition.

[Taly]

Why I Am Settling On TheGoldenParadox As D1's Lynch

That's no fun. If Almost50 and I were both at L-1 and you were the last to vote, which of us would you hammer, and why?

The thing is, I'd rather not vote either of you this dayphase. I've become more clear on that.

I think

TheGoldenParadox's

lynch would give a lot more information.

1)

His votes were associative-tells, possibly based on information I placed in the game, since he didn't react to any wagon until after the post where I voted you.

2)

While

Almost50

is doing an extremely poor job putting a case on you, engaging with others, and combating his wagon, I feel like he's doing this purposely. Since I feel there's at least 1 scum already on his wagon, I think he's being bussed, and an easy-out way for the scumteam, and even an SK.

3)

Furthermore,

TheGoldenParadox

has foxposted in other site threads at least 2 times in between each of

Almost50's

posts, and any further on him.

4)

From all of this, I can only deduce that

Almost50's

tunnel on you,

Doomfeathers

, is a positioning tactic.

Something tells me, if

TheGoldenParadox

truly does flip scum, those two are most likely scum together.

But say

Almost50

survives to D2, he's already posted a lot more than

TheGoldenParadox

. Meaning, the town has more information in his posts to dissect and wagon/possibly lynch than if

TheGoldenParadox

were alive.

5)

What would an

Almost50

flip say, if this were the other way around? ...

TheGoldenParadox

is probably scum with him, but... yeah?

Do you see my point?

Post-flip

,

TheGoldenParadox

provides more insight.

(If somehow, he's town, we can sort out Almost50 in D2 if he's alive.)

Pre-flip

,

Almost50

provides more insight.

(If he's lynched now, regardless of alignment, he hasn't given any information for his reads or tunnels. They are pointless unless we rule out a potential scum candidate through lynching.)

They're both my scumreads,

TheGoldenParadox

slightly more scummy than

Almost50

, and I'm happier with my vote in retrospect.

Oh... and if it wasn't explicitly stated yet, I'm getting a more town-lean on you,

Doomfeathers

, if that's the answer you're looking for.

[Taly]

@Aneninen, Read 300 and 301 and come back to me.

[Taly]

I think he's being bussed, and an easy-out way for the scumteam, and even an SK.

Wait what?

If A50 is an SK then what motivation would he have to do a "poor job" of defending himself? Who is the possible SK in this that you're referring to?

No, I'm not meaning

Almost50

is the SK.

I'm stating that I feel an SK would likely vote against

Almost50

right now because I feel the case against

Almost50

by now has been beaten to death a lot. He's been the longest-running wagon so far, and the highest voted wagon up until the past page or so.

(Aside from the early-Creature wagon.)

I don't know who the possible SK could be, and I can be completely wrong about them being on

Almost50's

wagon. But 2/3rds of the playerlist are on either wagon at this point, and the other 1/3 have been either VLA, inactive, or switching on non-prevalent wagons.

I think it's less likely an SK would be in a minority vote, or not voting at all right now.

However, as it stands, the reads of the people I have on

TheGoldenParadox

are more town-leaning than on

Almost50

.

I think TheGoldenParadox's lynch would give a lot more information.

I 100% disagree with this, and I think you do too.

A50 is giving zero information, I mean just look at 313 for yet more examples.

You're saying TGP is creating associations...why would you want him to stop then? Maybe now that you've posted that it turns into "now that I know that he knows that I know that he knows..." type of game, but he's giving information.

Because

TheGoldenParadox

has not engaged in the game like

Almost50

has. He's posted in other threads, and his minimal posts have either came across to me as artificial or apathetic.

Between these two, I feel like in a scum-scum or even scum-town scenario,

Almost50

would be an obvious lynch to go through with. Partially because I have a strong scumread on

TheGoldenParadox

, and that's where his vote has been for half of the dayphase so far.

Also, I think

Almost50

is baiting himself with the

Doom V Him

dichotomy.

[Taly]

I'd support a wagon on Jaydragon.

Do you think a push on him outweighs the wagon on

TheGoldenParadox

?

I can't do everything alone though.

You know I've quoted, and replied to you before, correct?

We shouldn't take "information" into account when we lynch. ALL lynches give us information.

Um, yeah? I'm stating why I feel a flip from

TheGoldenParadox

would be more telling based off already stated knowledge.

My scumread on

TheGoldenParadox

is a bit stronger, and more confident than the one I have on

Almost50

.

The number of lurkers is so high that scum strategy rn must be blending with them.

This is why my scumread on

TheGoldenParadox

is stronger than my read on

Almost50

.

Because TheGoldenParadox has not engaged in the game like Almost50 has.

Posting =/= engagement.

A50 is not engaged, he's posting, but it's terrible posting that provides zero information beyond him being scummy. I mean he literally just told me to piss off and that he would not respond to me because I'm voting for him... That's not what I call super engaged...

He may be posting badly but I wouldn't necessarily write him off as providing zero information at all.

As opposed to

TheGoldenParadox

, who has less posts than

havingfitz

; the person who's been VLA since the game begun.

Lalendra knows Texcat's alignment here. I don't know whether it's informative about Texcat as well.

...Um, I'm trying to reread the quote you're referring to, and I'm not seeing what you see?

Plus, I want to hear your thoughts on

300 and 301

[Taly]

Just stating, everyone should be reading my ISO's, regardless of who it's directed on or asking.

Spoiler: ISO on Texcat +Q's

Lalendra, Any comment on Jaydragon not doing anything but sheeping you?

Gut read that this would more likely come from town, but there's several other things that went on by page 3, so I'm a bit unsure.

Almost50 wagon seems like a good idea, but for now I'll wagon the liar:

VOTE: Lalendra

Nice catch by Brass...
VOTE: Lalendra

You didn't explain your vote on

Lalendra

. What did

Brass

catch?

I misread the bolded part below:

Interesting play points on Creature.

He's been online since the game has started

,

but he hasn't posted anywhere

else, either; it was quite early in the morning, so it's possible he hasn't yet checked his role PM. I'd rather wait to wagon him until he's posted or more time goes by.

Considering that his entrance is pretty typical of his playstyle and that he is now active and engaged, I'm okay with placing him in the townpile now. The OMGUS response is typical of him, as A50 pointed out.

So you (mis)read the part you bolded, but skipped the part I put in red? Okkk

Rereading this made me realize something.

I stated this in my ISO on

Lalendra

, that I don't think

Creature

OMGUSed at all, especially after his 166

Part of me feels uneasy about

Lalendra

not responding to the red area.

What's your read on

Doomfeathers, Texcat

?

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

That's likely.

I am calling bullshit on this.

Explain.

Also, 300

Tell me why Almost50 is a better lynch than TheGoldenParadox.

This question still stands.

Spoiler: ISO on Jaydragon +Q's

Ugh...

Jay's

posts up until 140 did not have substance from what I'm reading.

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

That's actually more common then you'd think, Paradox.

1) And while not completely a town trait, it's prioritizing the fact that certain people have to go first.

For example, Doom's actions are Null to me, but since I'm more forgiving of flavor and fluff(I do it too), I understand I'm usually wrong on that slot.

2) But it's not like I'm townreading him either, so I'd have vote him...

If you haven't been using weird logic like "hang Almost too get three alignments for the price of one" despite only having like 6 pages of content and trying to go for Taly for stupid ass reasons.

VOTE: Paradox

1)

In your eyes, who is top priority for pressuring, wagoning, and potential lynch?

Also, I wonder if you checked to see that my

Doomfeathers

read and

Almost50

read were the exact same in that post.

2)

If you'd have voted on

Doomfeathers

by this point, then what has prevented you from doing so? What's your read on him now?

Where is JaydragonKing?

I have been summoned.

...With little to say.

... I legit thought there was supposed to be 20 of us instead of 16.

... I legit thought that you were kidding but the ellipses make me question that.

I just find it weird that you specifically asked for Serial Killer instead of just Scum. Almost like you only have to find the Serial Killer since he's against you, but not the Mafia.

Word games are fun.

What would you know about the SK's motives? SK is third party, not solely against the Town.

Spoiler: ISO on profii +Q's

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

I know he is scum

This would be a very interesting opening post if

TheGoldenParadox

flipped scum.

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

I’ll just note this is either genuine noob town or dooms pal

How can you be sure, though? This is an early dichotomy that I didn't read too much into.

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

flicking through the thread can I ask how people have interpreted this post, because I've changed my mind.

obviously, a new player, if you don't know how to use the tags, not a criticism, everyone has to start somewhere, I'm just putting it out there. (ps, [.v]player[/.v] without the .'s)

then, voting for a player who hasn't posted, but first post, so let's be nice and say RVS

however, to say I would hate for someone to be force to play if they didn't want to - this makes no sense to me because creature hasn't posted, how can you know any of their thoughts?

then I've already picked up on the Doomfeathers buddying.

there is no way a player has made links to 2 players in their first post and outed the entire scum team, this has got to be n00b town (no offence)

That doesn't clear Doom or Creature in anyway, or link doom to creature. I just think Shadpearl is likely town now.

Let me know if I'm wrong here;
I know that early in the game that you changed your thought process of a

Doomfeathers-Shadpearl

pair, but when you think

Shadpearl

is likely town, what makes you still think

Doomfeathers

would be scum?

And do you think

Doomfeathers

is scum now?

@Kopherald - I don’t

Does this forum have a word for this phenomenon- when a town player town reads his scum buddy, just to get a town read on his pal out and about in the thread

I could be misreading this, but what? "Town player reads his scum buddy" ~ that player isn't town, then?

I’m going to give almost50 the benefit of the doubt here and say

Maybe he meant “what if I said I’m town blocking kopherald here”

That fits better

Mason in an open.... figuratively or not... ooook

Why give the benefit of the doubt instead of just asking for certainty?

Lalendra

pointed out that Creature has been active elsewhere and intends to vote park, then once he posted, flipped to town without giving any quotes just that he Creature was engaged. Kop pointed out the activity point was an error. This seems like someone trying to appear town on an easy meta read. I don't like it.


VOTE: Lalendra

I think Lalendra is try hard'ing to be town.
Almost50 is potentially going down a tunnel which only makes him a policy lynch at the moment which would be silly
I know KopHerald queried my read on ShadPearl but I'm still fairly happy to say it's noob play and not lynch.

I wouldn't call

Almost50

a PL. There were valid reasons stated for his wagon outside of a tunnel.

Furthermore, I wouldn't say

Lalendra's

trying to be town, honestly. Her original votepark on

Creature

detracted from scumhunting, and she hasn't given me the vibe too much that she has a survivalist mindset in the game.

@Doom / 242 - probably not, I think he is a policy lynch for tunneling a player who I think is town, but obviously you’re allowed to be wrong so id probably only lynch if he refuses to look at anyone else other than Creature as I hate tunnels

Why is

Doomfeathers

allowed to be wrong? Are you thinking he's town by this point?

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I can see how I’ve ended up in that pile on your observation that the Lal mistake might be too obvious. I’d have to think it through a bit more but I had it in my mind that it was something if no one checked between the post and Creature coming back it might be incontestable

But you have a point it might have been too obvious

Nah, that's not scummy. Mostly I just gutread you as scum, it feels like you're being too appeasing.

im working on not getting into 1v1s - they keep ending up being TvT so figures but I’ll move on...

I sympathize with this, but this could come from either Town or Scum.

Aneninen seems to be gunning for Doom then ends up on Dooms scum ‘find’

It all seems quite contrived

VOTE: aneninen

If I could vote doom as well I would but I think I’ve already done that

You have.

This is the biggest thing that makes me question of a scum possibility in

Profii

.

His vote history, and the reasons listed.

13 RVS vote on

TheGoldenParadox

; could've been trying to scumhunt, could've known something.
48 votes fro

Doomfeathers

for what may be to push discussion and a wagon? But had an early associative tell with him and

Shadpearl

, but cleared

Shadpearl

later, but not

Doomfeathers

. 44 and 71
188 revotes

TheGoldenParadox

because of his 139
221 votes on

Lalendra

for trying hard to be town.
291 revotes

TheGoldenParadox

because of his response to the wagon; and infers that

Doomfeathers

would have a case to answer if he flips scum.
361 votes Aneninen because of his reads to

Doomfeathers

? It's unclear here because I don't know what quote he's referring to.... Then he says he could vote for

Doomfeathers

to.

I don't get the waffling and long-running understated scumread on

Doomfeathers

...? If I'm wrong, then please profii, be coherent with your reads here.

Also I don't like the constant shifting on/off

TheGoldenParadox

wagon either.

I still have not seen enough of

Texcat

to have much of a read on her either way.

Some of

Jaydragon's

quotes have made me question him, I would be fine with a wagon on him, but I have more confident scumreads at the moment.

I can see the possibility of

profii's

vote-swapping and re-voting coming from Town; but I feel some of his reasons for votes are understated and are based off less-cultivated associatives. I don't trust it.

[Taly]

No, I haven't. That's why this is BS. I did just finish a game with Aneninen, but it was abandoned on Day2, so a fairly small sample size for his meta. And I played with Aneninen way back when, but don't think that counts.

Yeah, I'm unsure about

doomfeathers'

response to that then, and at the moment, I'm waffling on my

Anenien

read.

I thought I explained this in 231 and 257. I was referring to Brass's 102

Oh, now I see.

Town. But mostly because I'm reading A50 as scum. [...] Shrug. I've got more of a scum read on him.

What about

Almost50

rings to you as more scum than

TheGoldenParadox

?

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

This has been my thought process for the past 3 pages.

Yey texcat is town

Is this a meta-based read, solely off face-value, or both?

Taly -
Since the tell on Doom linking with Shadpearl, I was on board with that suggested scum!pool of {Doom, A50, Creature} having legs. Since it initially got raised I think the pool is more like {Doom, A50, TGP, Aneninen} - these slots have some weird associations and surely we will find at least 1 scum here, probably 2 I think. This is based on the players getting involved in this with each other so I think the SK will stay out the way and won’t be any of these players

I’m relatively comfortable with voting any of these slots but I’d like to see some pressure applied to anen for now, then I think we can review all slots.

I take your point on board about Shadpearl - I just made a decision really, it could well be scum but I felt that early in the game, let’s just be mindful of that event and scum hunt everyone else. I’d be keen to hear their thoughts on the 4 players I’m putting under scrutiny rn from Shadpearl at least and that would help me sort that slot

In what way is

Aneninen

associated with

Doomfeathers

,

Almost50

, and/or

TheGoldenParadox

? I'm not quite seeing it.

Also, I wouldn't rule out the SK being within those 4; or anyone without a flip.

Taly's Current Reads On

Official Vote Count 1.5

Almost50 (6)

-

doomfeathers

,

Sando

,

TheGoldenParadox

,

Shadpearl, Lalendra, texcat

TheGoldenParadox (5)

-

JaydragonKing

,

Kopherald, Ausuka, Creature, Taly

Shadpearl (1) - havingfitz

doomfeathers (1)

-

Almost50

Lalendra (1)

-

Aneninen

Aneninen (1) - profii

Not Voting (1) - JimmyUrineMoneyShot

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Notes: havingfitz is V/LA until March 13.

(expired on 2018-03-19 22:00:00)

Davesaz

is also conftown. I'm sure of it because of all these VC's.

[Taly]

TheGoldenParadox is at L-2 to my belief.

Also, the majority of the posts last page were either quoting on, replying to, or talking about me. So instead of wasting an hour trying to sort through quotes (because I have to sleep), I'm going to do my best to message without all the formatting and such.

~~~

Jay

377
No. I don't recall saying I wanted to lynch you? I'd like to pressure you, whether it's through a wagon or inquisition. I am uncertain of my read on you, and I don't believe you've done much.

But you know; if you want more people talking about you... post more, and reply to their questions.

~~~

Anenien

I'm sorting this in small quotes to avoid a helluva lot of misreading.

Gun-to-head choice between those two wagons would be Almost. But I didn't like those posts. What if Taly was trying to manipulate us?

1)

Instead of announcing to people about your distrust for my posts and seemingly to generate WIFOM; why don't you ask questions and try to do less associatives based off little stated reasoning and no-certain information?

Isn't it time for me to jump on something else too and develop a scumread on the 397th player in this game?
However, what if both Taly and Almost are scum?

2)

I'm being doubtcasted for asserting my strongest scumread and stating reasons why I believe they're a good lynch.

Regardless of the alignment of someone's flip, I'm going to be FoS'd if I survive to D2. Which, fine. But there's a lot of speculation on associations by this point, when the gamestate probably won't change much without concrete knowledge.

Taly+Almost50?
Almost50+Profii?
Doom+? (Lalendra?)
Paradox needs to post!!!

3)

You literally put most of the people questioned in this dayphase and associated them in a mafia partnership together.

I don't quite understand how you came to these conclusions.

4)

I don't think

TheGoldenParadox

will post, or will have a fruitful post. He's played in several games at the moment and hasn't done anything with this one, especially around the points where he's been wagoned.

I've never seen this type of inactivity come from town.

~~~

Sando

So what info do you see coming from a TGP flip? You've stated you think it's a bus on A50, so presumably you're saying scum!TGP = scum!A50. What other inferences are we looking at from a town or scum flip?

If

Almost50's

alive tomorrow, seeing his play after

TheGoldenParadox's

flip could clear reads and eliminate some speculation. The longer this dayphase lasts it seems, the more messy the playerlist is getting about speculating based on associatives.

TheGoldenParadox's

wagon has been the only post-

Almost50

major wagon.

Almost50's

recent posts have made me slightly question my read and associative on him. I still think he's more likely scum, and possibly aligned with

TheGoldenParadox

, but I'm not as confident anymore.

And honestly, while it's likely that

TheGoldenParadox

is town, and I could be very, very wrong. Here is my thinking:

Almost50

is scummy. But as much as I dislike most of his postings, I can see the perspective of them coming from town. I've seen town do some the tunnels, I've seen town do the "will self-hammer", and while scum could and have done that before AND that it's bad for

Almost50

to do this. I'm not quite content on lynching him now, because I can't do that with

TheGoldenParadox

. Nothing tells me

TheGoldenParadox's

town, and I've seen scum throw suspicion and fade away when they're suspected like he's done.

~~~

profii

385 Yeah, I'm just about done with associative talk. But I'm not too fond of some of Aneninen's - mostly recent - posts off first glance.

~~~

doomfeathers

I'm just letting you know; I read through your posts. Though, I need to wrap up soon because I have college classes tomorrow. If there's anything you want me to address specifically, then tell me.

...Wow. You've thought this through. I'm glad I'm playing with you. I think I'll keep my vote on Almost50, though, simply because I still think there's a chance Paradox is an apathetic townie, whereas I'm pretty sure Almost50 is scum.

Honestly, I'm seeing it more the other way around at this moment, and thanks. XD

Baiting himself? What do you mean?

He's trying to seem so certain of his scumread on you, that he's falling on his own sword to ensure that one of you are lynched or heavily wagoned.

I'm not sure if that's tunnel-minded townplay, or scum motivated.

~~~

When I have time in the next 1-2 days, I'm going to look back at

Almost50's

posts, specifically the ones on the past 2 pages since they have generated more content.

[Taly]

Instead of announcing to people about your distrust for my posts and seemingly to generate WIFOM; why don't you ask questions and try to do less associatives based off little stated reasoning and no-certain information?

Actually I have asked questions.

Yet, you still scumread half the playerlist?

I don't quite understand how you came to these conclusions.

You needn't understand it. My gameplay is shyt and I'm scumreading at least 10 players or so. However, you should have noticed that. Why do you care that much about my scumread on you? Especially because – tadaaaaa, yesterday's news – I want to get Doomfeathers lynched.

Why do I not need to understand it?

But aside from that, thanks for telling me things I already know.

Also, what gave you the idea that I care so much about your scumread on me? I called out a fallacy that I saw in your scumreads. You say you've asked questions and I'd assume you're trying to scumhunt; but you're placing suspicion on a good portion of the playerlist while saying that people don't need to understand your reasoning.

This comes off as contrived, regardless of your push on

doomfeathers

, which I don't think I've seen a big case on him from you so far.

~~~~

Deciding to do something against my usual playstyle by being in the background and see how it works out, Creature. It worked out for you so many times, right?

I couldn't take this post seriously if I tried.

UNVOTE:

I'm just going to unvote so the replacement atleast has a chance to defend themselves or give us a more town vibe. Gonna reread the case against Almost, see if I like it.

So instead of actually cultivating your own independent reads, you unvote

TheGoldenParadox's

slot, and say you're going to look at the

Almost50

wagon to see your thoughts...

Most of your posts are pointless unless it's directed solely on you.

Also, you didn't answer the questions I posed to you in the ISO I had on you... again.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JaydragonKing

Maybe this'll make you look.

~~~~

Also, I don't trust

TheGoldenParadox's

exit, to my understanding, he signed up for games after joining this one.

His slot is still my preferred lynch for today. But this game is stagnating at the moment, and I'm tired of

Jay

dodging anything that relates to discussion in this game.

[Taly]

I'm not dodging, just skillfully ignoring. The way of Elsa is powerful.

OK, SK, we get it. You don't want to contribute to the game.

To profii, I'm just a nice person in general, so I'm giving it a second chance. Besides, the first wagon isnt usually scum, from what I've heard from players I've played with.

This doesn't sound genuine.

Why are you using someone else's logic to discredit a wagon you want to look back at?

I don't plan to move my vote until you respond to these quotes:

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

That's actually more common then you'd think, Paradox.

1) And while not completely a town trait, it's prioritizing the fact that certain people have to go first.

For example, Doom's actions are Null to me, but since I'm more forgiving of flavor and fluff(I do it too), I understand I'm usually wrong on that slot.

2) But it's not like I'm townreading him either, so I'd have vote him...

If you haven't been using weird logic like "hang Almost too get three alignments for the price of one" despite only having like 6 pages of content and trying to go for Taly for stupid ass reasons.

VOTE: Paradox

1)

In your eyes, who is top priority for pressuring, wagoning, and potential lynch?

Also, I wonder if you checked to see that my

Doomfeathers

read and

Almost50

read were the exact same in that post.

2)

If you'd have voted on

Doomfeathers

by this point, then what has prevented you from doing so? What's your read on him now?

Where is JaydragonKing?

I have been summoned.

...With little to say.

... I legit thought there was supposed to be 20 of us instead of 16.

... I legit thought that you were kidding but the ellipses make me question that.

I just find it weird that you specifically asked for Serial Killer instead of just Scum. Almost like you only have to find the Serial Killer since he's against you, but not the Mafia.

Word games are fun.

What would you know about the SK's motives? SK is third party, not solely against the Town.

[Taly]

I hate being ignored.

[Taly]

And my vote will stay on him,

skillfully

.

[Taly]

And my vote will stay on him,

skillfully

.

That is your artistic liberty, actually. We are all wrong atleast once in our lives.

I almost want to townread you because of how you little you seem to care about being wagoned.

But you're scum until you do something productive, and stop dismissing me.

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

Link me the post of your question? I didn't see one?

Other than that, I don't see the issue with

Kop's

question?

I wonder if

Kopherald

was expecting this reaction.

Also, what do you think about

Jay

?

Mobilepost.
I have only took a look at this page. I think Jay is scum.

Then do something about it.

UNVOTE:
I'm willing to wait for replacement.

@Jimmy

, Have you caught up yet? Any reads for us while we're waiting?

Do you have any other people on your radar?

~~~

I refuse to let the pace of this game slow down.

[Taly]

Even though I will have to go to bed now because of schedule tomorrow, I want to post and say that I am participating in this game.

Last week, life things happened and that distracted me from MS for a bit.

As for the game currently, my reads are up in the air at the moment. I'm shocked by

TheGoldenParadox

slot flipping town, but even more shocked by the quickwagon that led up to the lynch, especially after that wagon losing some traction. Going to dig through the last few pages now that there's more flips.

Didn't quite expect the

Lalendra

kill. o_o

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

519 The Doctor claim on

Almost50

makes me rethink my initial read here; but I hate how 637

Flavor Leaf/TheGoldenParadox

claimed too and got lynched after -_-...

P-Edit
@MathDino

I began pushing him because he added nothing to the game and was consistently ignoring my posts. I wasn't even online the last 3 days prior to

TheGoldenParadox's

lynch.

[Taly]

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

[Taly]

I'm not behind a lynch on

Almost50

today because of the doc-claim. We've already lost 2 docs.

Anyway, time to look back and read from

Page 22

about all my comments and things I missed.

Mathdino is getting a special ISO in a post soon. Many things caught my attention and I didn't like most of it. But he's being replaced out, so I'm not pushing there just yet.

Sorta bad to come in just to say my gut is starting to think Taly is scum.

Sometimes I'm thinking the same.

I associative read Taly scum, but I'm not seeing much isolated scum behaviour from Taly. I just feel his anti-wagons are...off.

Please talk to me about how voting

Jay

and holding off on

TheGoldenParadox

until a replacement came, is being anti-wagon.

Furthermore, if the above statement misinterprets your post; then let me know why

Jay

was an odd option to push.

The idea that Creature of all people things we should read replacements as NAI, that we should stop pressuring a scummy looking replacement, and that havingfitz not posting while VLA... seems hypocritical at best.

Oooook, back from coffee and reread this, apparently I should have waited:

The idea that Creature of all people

thinks

we should read replacements as NAI, that we should stop pressuring a scummy looking replacement

slot

, and that havingfitz not posting while VLA

is a sign of scummy

... seems hypocritical at best.

After some thought, I feel more confident in my townread of Creature.

I don't get this doubtcast on

Creature's

motives though, without a push.

Oh look, more OMGUS from Creature...colour me surprised.

That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen from A50, but a claim is a claim and I think we'll sort that out in the coming days.

TGP slot would be my second individually scummy slot but we're waiting on a replacement.

Shadpearl is probably third for me: Sando416 is where I'm coming from there for the most part.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadpearl

1)

Hate that Creature was boiled down to being OMGUS here even though he tried to start a productive wagon 522

((Even more salty that NOBODY followed suit on the JaydragonKing wagon except for Aneninen who had been voting him; which makes me feel like he's town... and his pigeons too. Jay deserved a wagon with his gameplay and replies.))

2)

"We'll sort that in the coming days" Love the doubtcast on a claim, though.

((Sarcasm))

But, you didn't seem to have a comment when

Flavor Leaf

did it and he was getting quickwagoned. 637

Hi, it's me, Brass, and I am here to share my infinite wisdom with you.

There are so many replacements. Is this normal for big games?

I'm on my phone so no walls from me.

I like the idea of keeping pressure, but is it really going to do anything? It seems like vote pushing just isn't working. There are too many divided players and too many people throwing away their votes. Idk quite what to do about this. Never had this problem before.

I think Almost50 is crazy, lol. Although, from the outside looking in, his posts are perfect because I can't make up my mind if he's terrible scum or the ballsiest townie I've ever seen

Sando, I'm just new and town. Sorry. Not more exciting. You are welcome to wagon me. If it gets the game moving, it's all good I suppose. I'd like to be town together though.

In my opinion, Sando is basically the only person I currently DON'T think is a possible killer. And profii, on the outside.
2 semi-discovered!
13 to go!

Last Note, continuously hopping from one vote to another is tiresome.

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom has been expended. I'll be back eventually.

-Brass

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom tells me that stating something wrong about a post and then not following it up is odd.

Spoiler: All The Reasons I Hated TheGoldenParadox Wagon When I Was Gone

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox
If we're not getting replacements, I'd prefer to lynch this slot.

Alright then. Paradox was gone for longer and his exit was super shitty, so I can definitely interpret it as scum. I'm up for any other options suggested though.

VOTE: Paradox slot

Seriously guys, there are sixteen slots here. Atleast half of us should be talking.

Lynching one of the slots that left is the optimal play, both were being scum read pretty universally.

I still think TGP who asked to be replaced out 4 days ago, should be the lynch. For good measure, because I'm not positive we are voting.
VOTE: Paradox slot

-Brass

^^^

These votes were less than 10 posts apart. I know

Jay

flipped scum, but

texcat

and

Kopherald

were fast here.

Also, less than 10 posts later, why didn't a doc-claim make you guys question keeping the vote on him?

If you think Flavour Leaf can't be town, you should hammer.

By the way, I don't think Taly's lurking.

Yeah, no more than a few hours after 506-

Taly

had flat tires, and car troubles.
2 exams to study for.
Relationship revelations.
Something that shook his self-esteem for a bit.
Alongside some other life stuff happening.

And forgot about Mafia for several days.

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Are you suggesting scum is setting you up for a mislynch...?

I think that's a very good possibility.

1)

My wagon/push target on

JaydragonKing

flipped scum, and I was the only person on that wagon at the end of the day.

Someone could say that I was bussing J

ay

or half-assedly wagoning him for distance. 745 Or, minimize my reasons for going on said push, without fully asking why 749

2)

I made a strong push against TheGoldenParadox slot prior to his replacement coming, and I didn't follow up on anything until after his mislynch.

He flipped Town Doc. Do I have to continue?

3)

Near the ending of D1, people were beginning to scumread me. 507 - 600 are examples.

Why would I be a good NK target at all? But since I've been vocal and pushing the game whenever I AM active here; why not try and push me? Not that I'm saying people shouldn't, but this sounds like an easy case tbh.

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

But, seeing as how my read of TGP was so damn bad yesterday, I am reevaluating all reads based on content throughout day 2, and hopefully Kop-head can overcome me-head's tendency to lead to mislynches.

-Brass

I was going to bed right when I posted that... Nice to see the assumption that that's the ONLY reason I wanted him gone.

But even if that was the only reason I had, is that really a bad reason to push or scumread someone?

Honestly,

JaydragonKing

outright dismissing me is a huge scumtell in my eyes. At the time,

TheGoldenParadox

sounded amazing for a lynch, but I was pretty consistent with my stance on

JaydragonKing

.

1)

433 - 438 Followed by his revote on

TheGoldenParadox

slot later, he literally sheeped anyone when it wasn't him on a wagon. His votes were opportunistic, and held no value beyond

"oh, it's deflecting from the push on me!"

I even brought that up in 468. My pressure vote was NOT one-dimensional.

2)

307 In hindsight, he blatantly misrepped me here. He lopped me and

Creature

in the category of lynching him, while I wasn't sold on a lynch with him yet as of my ISO in 365 I even attempted to engage with him in 406, but he never listened.

He appeared more like scum with each post, and I stated that I was comfortable with my vote in light of

TheGoldenParadox

replacing out.

First glance suggests Taly's entire push on Jay was mad distancing. No canvassing for votes, explicitly stated it was a pressure vote to get Jay to do something. I don't actually think his case on Jay was alignment indicative.
VOTE: Taly

My first glance suggested that Taly might be the SK.

Yup. Game solved.

I

TOTALLY

killed off the person I was wagoning and calling out.

((More Sarcasm))

As for the game currently, my reads are up in the air at the moment.

You pushed TGP hard and over your other reads because the flip gave you more information...now you're "up in the air"?

Um, yeah? I'm stating why I feel a flip from TheGoldenParadox would be more telling based off already stated knowledge.

I think TheGoldenParadox's lynch would give a lot more information.

I was confused by the initial flip of

TheGoldenParadox

, and

Lalendra's

NK.

But the more I'm rereading the thread, the stronger my reads are becoming.

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Given we know which team made each NK, are you confident that scum killed Lal to create a mislynch and that she didn't just give off doc vibes.

I've not read Lal's ISO to see if there is some kind of crumb, but I think scum would get really lucky to be in a position to pick a PR target that also creates a mis-lynch, I'd expect them to have to go for 1 agenda or the other (assuming there was a crumb they picked up on ofc)

So the fact you think you've been setup quite early in the game-day, means yours will be the first ISO I review once I get a bit of time, consider this FOS for now.

Lalendra

never gave a crumb IMO. If she did, it was extremely subtle. Something tells me that

Flavor Leaf

townreading her; alongside much of the other town, myself included, was what lead to her NK.

She was also probably mislynch bait D1, and it's possible scum thought she'd be easy to go after. Though, when that didn't happen, she was killed off.

Please, ISO me. I WANT people to engage with me.

~~~

Didn't like

Jimmy's

hammer at all, and I don't get their reads much either.

I want to see him react to the present votes though.

[Taly]

Taly, regarding your question to this slot about why I didn't unvote, I incorrectly scumread TGP from pretty early on. I just looked at the claim from Flavour and the hammer afterwards, during that time, I didn't check this game during that time, I left for my in-law's house around noon that day, the claim came a half hour later, I got home at 9, hammer was already done.

Kop was also not around this weekend.

Also, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question earlier, I'm satisfied with the response.

-Brass

...My townread here is less shaky. I double-checked the thread timings of posts leading up to

TheGoldenParadox's

lynch, and I can definitely see Brass is being genuine, and I relate, because the same thing literally happened to me except for several days.

Talk to me about

Sando

and

profii

. Thoughts on either head?

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

Yeah, I spent

some (because that's not all I did)

time talking about

Doom/A50

D1 because that was before

Almost50's

claim of doctor and the replacement of

Mathdino

after my absence.

I'm not going to sit here and try to find falsehoods in

Almost50's

claim RIGHT after we've lost, both our backup doc, and 1 doc. Especially since BOTH the SK and scum are alive. It's only D2.

Furthermore, I already stated that I'm waiting for a

Mathdino

replacement... what's the point in pushing a slot without anybody there?

Plus, my top scumread for the majority of D1 flipped doc. Why is it odd to rethink my reads?

And I do have solid reasonings for why I made a case against myself, it's not me going

"oh shit! time to look town!"

:

1)

Weed out the motivations of the pushes against me.

Kopherald

prompted me to respond to 749, where I'd lay out my views on

JaydragonKing

and

TheGoldenParadox

post-by-post prior to my absence.

2)

By stating that I'm easy to push, I'm welcoming people to BOTH push me, and communicate with me.

3)

...Also, if I was initially correct in being a scumtarget, then that would alter how scum would likely approach me. It's a major reaction test.

^^^ These votes were less than 10 posts apart. I know Jay flipped scum, but texcat and Kopherald were fast here.

Also, less than 10 posts later, why didn't a doc-claim make you guys question keeping the vote on him?

I don't know what you mean by fast here. I was the first of the three. And while there may have been few posts before the claim, it was at least hours. As I was catching up and read the claim, I was considering where to move my vote, but then came to the selfvote, and decided to leave it.

672... Yeah, I hate self-votes. But I've seen both scum and town do it prior to this game.

And by fast, I meant, all 3 votes within a short amount of posting time. Jay was scum, but I wasn't quite sure of either you or

Kopherald's

motivation in voting.

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

profii

is giving me odd vibes, but

Sando's

given me odd vibes since the game started....

profii

can be any alignment, and I've progressively had my early townread on

Sando

destroyed in a vicious fire.

Spoiler: Case On Sando + Reasons For Vote(s) Because IMO, There's Several

Please talk to me about how voting Jay and holding off on TheGoldenParadox until a replacement came, is being anti-wagon.

You can't be serious? We'd had a long talk about TGP vs A50, and I specifically said I didn't like your anti-wagon there. Here I'll quote myself for you:

This is my concern, that Taly is leading us off the A50 train onto TGP to at least get a mislynch out of his partner. I don't like someone looking at their two scummiest reads and being so indignant at the idea of lynching one of them over the other.

This post is so wrong.

1)

You do realize that my general scumread on

TheGoldenParadox

was stronger than

Almost50

, right? 323 - 364 = 406

Hell, I even stated that I could see

Almost50

being town in some aspects prior to his claim. Why am I scum with

Almost50

because I'm pursuing a more confident scumread?

2)

Why are you still holding me to my earlier reads in D1? Hello,

TheGoldenParadox

flipped town and proved me wrong, WHILE

Almost50

claimed doctor.

In my view, it's incredibly anti-town to lynch through

Almost50's

claim at this point:

If he's truthful, then the town is handing scum the win because we're almost completely vulnerable to 2 NKs each night.
If he's lying, then why sort that out now? Only 3 flips have happened.

3)

You say my 'anti-wagon' is odd, but you didn't even mention the times I've tried to pursue

JaydragonKing

up until my absence, and my further explanation of my push/read on him in my last post.

VOTE: Sando

I feel like this is a very weak attempt to spread suspicion on my stated reasonings.

1) Hate that Creature was boiled down to being OMGUS here even though he tried to start a productive wagon 522

How was this productive? How was what I said out of line with my previous discussion with Creature about OMGUS? How was creatures wagon well reasoned and not OMGUS?

Because he was trying to wagon and progress a slowing down game! 522

This was when

TheGoldenParadox

replaced out and nobody else was there. 462

1)

You didn't ask him why he voted that way.

2)

You didn't try and gauge a reaction back.

3)

You simply wrote

Creature

off as "omgus-ing as usual".

4)

You then proceeded to doubt

Almost50's

claim without engaging with him.

5)

But you vote Shadpearl...? Seems like you're deflecting attention.

All this happened in 526

He may not have had a solid reason for wagoning you aside from feeling odd about you 328 - 527

But your reaction to him SURELY is enough reason for me to vote and suspect you.

VOTE: Sando

2) "We'll sort that in the coming days" Love the doubtcast on a claim, though. ((Sarcasm)) But, you didn't seem to have a comment when Flavor Leaf did it and he was getting quickwagoned. 637

Yeah, cause, you know, associative tells and all...

My last post of the day was ~45 minutes after FL claimed, and I wasn't voting him, and was engaged with Mathdino at the time. I was then away during the subsequent wagon. No votes had changed in that time.

Taly taking credit for Jay's scumflip along with basic incomprehension of this strikes me as extremely scummy.

VOTE: Taly

Yeah, the bolded is the exact problem I have here.

1)

646 had NOTHING to do with verifying or debunking

Flavor Leaf's

claim, and this was WELL before the hammer post in 737 >> Why is

Flavor Leaf's

claim OK, when he's getting wagoned to be lynched, and

Almost50's

is still "weird"?

2)

And cool... Your last day post was 45 minutes after

Flavor Leaf

claimed, but almost TWO days until the hammer. You could have engaged with someone other than

Mathdino

...

3)

Actually, if you truly were away during the final votes on the wagon; 668 - 672 - 680 - 688 - 703 - 737

Then how were you engaging with Mathdino at all?

Like, this reads as a potential scumslip.

4)

Even if I misread you, and you didn't slip at all, you CANNOT say that the votes on the wagon on Flavor Leaf changed between the hammer and your last post in 646

There were several votes that were placed on him progressively after this.

Also, what does associatives have to do with

Almost50's

claim? Were you planning to push a

Me+Almost50

scumduo for the past 300 posts?

Actually, rereading 646 makes me think that this WAS planned. You only focused on

Almost50

because it verified a (weak) reason to scumread him even after a flip.

VOTE: Sando

So the scumkill on Lalendra is interesting from a Mathdino reread.

Mathdino would fairly easily qualify as a townleader at end of D1, so either:

1) Scum thought the town-flip would destroy his credibility
2) Scum thought he'd continue to townlead so killed off a townread of his
3) They doc-hunted successfully
4) Mathdino is scum

I don't think 1 is particularly likely with a player like Mathdino. ISOing Mathdino on Lalendra he never came close to townreading him, null at best and I'd say leaning scum. Given Lalendra was backup doc and had no indication they'd have doc power until post flip, I'm not sure 3 is anything more than luck. That leaves 4 as the logical answer.

Anything could be the answer though, they could have VT-read Mathdino and thus simply excluded and ignored him from the hunt, rendering it null, or many other possibilities. But I'm giving scumpoints to Mathdino-slot for both not dying and Lalendra being NKd.

If

Mathdino

being scum is the most logical universe in your eyes, then why are you proclaiming that he's a townleader and transparently giving him scumpoints AFTER he's replaced out?

THIS. Is what distancing looks like.

VOTE: Sando

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

This post makes like 0 sense to me. Taly is scum because he doesn't think doom or A50 is scum anymore on d2?

Makes sense to me, especially the A50 part.

A50 and TGP get into rival wagons
Taly comes along with "nah despite them both being super scummy, we should only lynch TGP today"
TGP is lynched and flips town
Taly no longer finds A50 scummy

I mean my statement about Taly (which you haven't responded to, just profii's and then lumped me in with) derailing A50 wagon onto TPG is followed very nicely by now no longer scumreading A50. Makes perfect sense from an A50+Taly scum perspective.

I

never

derailed

Almost50

as you're stating, I was focused on

TheGoldenParadox

.

You act as if all of my explanations in this game up to this point... don't exist at all.

VOTE: Sando

If someone doesn't see the flow in Sando's case: He says it's me+Taly, but he votes Taly over me himself when >I< was the original suspect to begin with. Like, if he really believed in his theoretical team he should be pushing ME first and only push Taly if I flip red. Obviously, he knows his wagon on me won't go through because of my claim, so why not push the other person and maybe we can force a claim there! That's all what scum care about.

1) Oh right, so by your logic we shouldn't push a case on ANYONE else because they might be forced to claim?

2) Why is pushing it on Taly any worse than pushing it on literally anyone else?

3) Why did you push cases D1 and lynch a doc-claim if you think pushing people is scum motivated?

4) You're trying to make out that pushing literally ANYONE other than you can only be scum motivated...

1)

What the hell is this sentence? How, in D1, is a claim automatically 100% scum-motivated in your eyes, but you're not even pushing the wagon on the person that claimed? You're seriously painting everything about

Almost50

out to be scum when in reality, you're ignoring him.

Maybe because you know he might actually BE doc?

2)-

If the above statement holds true; I completely see why

Sando

is pushing me. I

am

an easy case to push.
If it doesn't, then why are you still focused on

Almost50

and I given the explanations and claims? Why am I special to YOU?

3)

Why are you making this argument? You ignored

Flavor Leaf's

claim, and now you're trying to throw reasons back at

Almost50

on why his is bad.

4)

Gee, I wonder who else has done that.

Taly taking credit for Jay's scumflip along with basic incomprehension of this strikes me as extremely scummy.

VOTE: Taly

Oh look, more OMGUS from Creature...colour me surprised.

VOTE: Sando

That's 6 reasons right there on my stance over you. I cannot see this as townplay.

((Here's the vote for the mod to see: VOTE: Sando))

I'll wait for Sando to say I'm overreacting as a means to discredit me... again.

P-Edit

VOTE: Taly

Cool! Creature acknowledges my existence.

How's that

profii

doin' for ya?

[Taly]

@Mod

Also, I just want to say - thanks for modding

davesaz!

You've been doing very well and I see that modding takes quite a bit of work, so thanks. This is fun.

[Taly]

If Mathdino being scum is the most logical universe in your eyes, then why are you proclaiming that he's a townleader and transparently giving him scumpoints AFTER he's replaced out?

THIS. Is what distancing looks like.

VOTE: Sando

Taly, does this imply that you are scum reading Mathdino?

Possibly, I'll ISO him in depth, most likely tomorrow when I have time.

I'm not drawing associatives right now, but I don't understand

Sando's

stance with

Mathdino

, or really... a lot of his stances.

Spoiler: Line By Line With Sando

1) You do realize that my general scumread on TheGoldenParadox was stronger than Almost50, right? 323 - 364 = 406

You do realise I said "two scummiest" right?

Yeah, you do realize I said

stronger

scumread, right?

2) Why are you still holding me to my earlier reads in D1? Hello, TheGoldenParadox flipped town and proved me wrong, WHILE Almost50 claimed doctor.

I'm not, I said it was scummy at the time, I'm saying it's still scummy, especially in light of a town-TGP flip.

Your point?

This is just pointing out that I was obviously wrong about

TheGoldenParadox

, and I feel like I've already beat-to-death my thought process, from early D1, to right before my absence, to right now; on my reads and thoughts regarding

TheGoldenParadox, Almost50,

and

JaydragonKing

.

So I say "hey you're trying to push against the A50 wagon onto TGP while also trying to maintain cred for scumreading A50, that's scummy". Coming back to that the next day and saying "hey you pushing against A50 wagon onto TGP while also trying to maintain cred for scumreading on A50 was scummy" is not holding you to anything, except account.

1)

I never said I've continued to scumread

Almost50

since D1. I said I'm not willing to lynch him, and I believe there is validity in his claim.

2)

What are you talking about me wanting to get cred for

Almost50's

wagon? I didn't push that wagon, I evaluated my reads on

Almost50

and the wagon at the time, and decided to continue with my own push on

TheGoldenParadox

.

In my view, it's incredibly anti-town to lynch through Almost50's claim at this point:

No shit, I've stopped advocating A50 lynch immediately after he claimed. You tried to tie me to TGP's doc claim lynch and failed miserably.

I'm completely lost on why we're having this conversation.

I've stated why I pushed

TheGoldenParadox

over

Almost50

.
I've stated why I don't want to lynch

Almost50

now and my thoughts on his claim.

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't say anything about the doc claim for

Flavor Leaf

OR if you even believed the claim.
I'm trying to figure out why you're consistently saying the anti-

Almost50

wagon was off in D1 when that wasn't the case in my eyes, and that you are still pushing that now after the claim when I don't understand the immediate relevance.

3) You say my 'anti-wagon' is odd, but you didn't even mention the times I've tried to pursue JaydragonKing up until my absence, and my further explanation of my push/read on him in my last post.

Because I didn't think that the Jaydragon push was odd...scum don't do scummy things 100% of the time. But you suuuuuuuuuure are desperate to get the cred for Jay flipping scum.

Break this down like I'm an idiot.

What the hell makes you think I'm trying to gain ANY cred from Jay flipping scum? I fully elaborated on my views before, during, and AFTER my vote/push on JaydragonKing.

I felt that he was horrible town, if not scum, during my vote on him. Why are you misconstruing the explanation of my reads?

3) You simply wrote Creature off as "omgus-ing as usual".

I'd already discussed Creature's habit of OMGUS...read the thread ffs.

I full-heartedly disagree with this assessment. But OK.

4) You then proceeded to doubt Almost50's claim without engaging with him.

Bullshit, here's what A50 said to me D1:

@Sando: Your vote is already on me, so I owe you no explanations. I was responding to someone who IS trying to understand.

The idea that I hadn't tried to engage with A50 or he was going to engage with me is just utter BS.

If you believe in

Almost50's

doc claim, then why are you creating ASSOCIATIVES between him and I? 799 - 805

Why are you painting him as scum? Why am I automatically in a scumduo with Almost50 if you believe his claim?

Your reads and pushes make no sense to me.

5) But you vote Shadpearl...? Seems like you're deflecting attention.

Oh my god I'm so sorry for not voting for one of the Doc claims!!!

That's not even what I'm talking about.

But it's interesting to see that you're twisting the point of my argument.

1) 646 had NOTHING to do with verifying or debunking Flavor Leaf's claim, and this was WELL before the hammer post in 737 >> Why is Flavor Leaf's claim OK, when he's getting wagoned to be lynched, and Almost50's is still "weird"?

Why would it be? So if there's a claim literally all discussion must be about that claim or it's scummy?

You stated:

That's one of the worst posts I've ever seen from A50, but a claim is a claim and I think we'll sort that out in the coming days.

What was the point in stating how terrible the claimpost was, and then saying that it'll be sorted out later?

And then when

Flavor Leaf

claimed; you didn't say ANYTHING about that.

I don't get it.

2) And cool... Your last day post was 45 minutes after Flavor Leaf claimed, but almost TWO days until the hammer. You could have engaged with someone other than Mathdino...

Yeah...I could have...if I'd been at home to post...but you're now lying. It was not two days between my last post and the hammer, it was less than 24 hours.

Here's my last post: Sando last D1 post - Sat 3:23pm for me
Here's the flip: Flip - Sun 11:23am for me

For reference, I went to my GFs Sat night and got home around midday.

Nice lie though.

3) Actually, if you truly were away during the final votes on the wagon; 668 - 672 - 680 - 688 - 703 - 737

Then how were you engaging with Mathdino at all?

My last post was directed at him...it literally quotes him and asks him a question. Also don't be a fucking ass, insinuating I'm faking being AFK and also lying about the timeline is just a dog move. I went to see my girlfriend Saturday afternoon, stayed at her place that night and came back after breakfast on the Sunday, he was flipped before I got home around midday. Given you're also wanting sympathy for being away for considerably longer while also lying about the timeline...well fuck right off is all I can say.

Please, do not make this personal. I'm trying to understand what went on from your last post in D1 to the hammer. Thanks for clarifying.

If Mathdino being scum is the most logical universe in your eyes, then why are you proclaiming that he's a townleader and transparently giving him scumpoints AFTER he's replaced out?

I'm actually parroting him here, but lol nice try. I'm saying he was townleader (in the sense of directing a lot of D1 activity) and that given he didn't die (something he said was a high probability) we should look at what that means. Mathdino said him being alive meant his reads were shit, I took that further to show why it's actually somewhat scummy. All sorts of other things could explain it though, so it's mostly just something to consider going forward.

1) What the hell is this sentence? How, in D1, is a claim automatically 100% scum-motivated in your eyes, but you're not even pushing the wagon on the person that claimed? You're seriously painting everything about Almost50 out to be scum when in reality, you're ignoring him.

Maybe because you know he might actually BE doc?

Ahhhh, yes? I still don't think D2 is the day to lynch a doc claim, especially with a doc and backup already dead. How is quoting me responding to A50 evidence of me ignoring him though?

And finally, I'm not entirely sure how to quote this, but it's the 4) with emoji faces... Wat? You think you gloating about Jay's scumflip is similar to me saying "Creature OMGUS's too much, oh look he did it again"? Wat?

1)

I'm not gloating, I never was gloating. I don't know how you come to these conclusions.

2)

That's not even what I said, for the 1000th time.

3)

I'm referring to that whenever someone has pushed or voted you, it seems like you've written it off up until this point.

I'll wait for Sando to say I'm overreacting as a means to discredit me... again.

There's really no need, your arguments are weak, you're lying and you're drawing poor parallels. You did vote me something like 5 times there though, what's that about?

I'm done here.

Sando

, you can reply, but I'm losing the point in going back-and-forth about this.

UNVOTE:

I've just had a revelation! Sando is TOWN.

@Taly: Unvote him at will. He's just one of those players who think they're smart and got something, but he's not scum. Trust me on this.

I'm struggling to understand

Sando

here. :/

Tell me why he's town, explain it to me as if I don't know what Mafia is.

I don't understand his read on you.
I don't understand the point behind his push on me.
I don't know why he believes I'm soaking up this

Jay

scumflip even though I've simply stated my reasons for voting and pushing him.
I don't know what he expects to gain from probing me about my read on you D1.
I don't understand his associatives.
I don't know any other aspect of his reads or mindset in this game.

[Taly]

I'll reply to a few, just because you seem to really, really not get it.

If you believe in Almost50's doc claim, then why are you creating ASSOCIATIVES between him and I? 799 - 805
Why are you painting him as scum? Why am I automatically in a scumduo with Almost50 if you believe his claim?

1) I do not believe the claim
2) I think it's bad form to lynch a doc claim when you don't have to
3) I didn't believe TGPs/Flavours claim
4) I was in a different situation than A50s claim, I wasn't voting him and I was out the door an hour after it happened, hence different situation, different response

How does ANY of that not make sense to you?

Because you're expecting me to follow your views, after I've specifically elaborated on the progression of my reads, and have been honest about how I feel about claims at this point.

You could elaborate on why you didn't believe either claim, though.

Please, do not make this personal. I'm trying to understand what went on from your last post in D1 to the hammer. Thanks for clarifying.

Bullshit, you

flat out lied

about the times and then intimated that I'm lying about being AFK, all to make a scumcase on me. You made it personal, not me.

I do not control your feelings. I simply made an observation on the timing of your posts and you proved me wrong, and I conceded to that.

What more are you looking to hear?

3) I'm referring to that whenever someone has pushed or voted you, it seems like you've written it off up until this point.

Please show me where I've said it about anyone's attack on me other than Creature's? Given I've just had both you and A50 vote me, shouldn't be too hard for you to find examples...

Taly, why are you attacking me for being away during the lynch and my single post soon after the claim not being anti-wagon enough for your liking, while A50 blatantly lying about the votecount in order to cast doubt on the claim and also actually lynching the doc, gets a pass? You're desperate enough to paint me as scummy you'll just make shit up about the timeline, but outright lies from A50 to secure the lynch on a doc claim you'll just ignore?

Why are you saying I'm attacking you? I'm simply stating my case.

Why is anyone suspecting you an attack on YOU? I told you why I felt that your OMGUS-paint of Creature's wagon is not conducive to game progression, and I've explained that.

It's hard to explain how Sando thinks although I can see where he's coming from and I've seen it too many times before (and have been guilty of it myself in a previous stage of my Mafia play). Suffice it to say he's going "one-dimensional", so to speak, and he also expects everyone else to do the same. It was either me or TGP, so if TGP flipped green you should NOT have revamped your whole read list, but should have rather simply turned to me. Y'know.. it's a binary thing for him.. 2 competing wagons so one must be scum, but he is clever so he is allowed to rethink that,.. everyone else is not as clever and cannot think that way, so they must be scum for doing something he does not allow them to do.

It's the same as him repeated calling me an idiot, His way is the right way of playing mafia and everyone else who doesn't follow his rules are dumb or scum.

I get that this can be town.

But this type of mindset automatically sets of scum alarms to me. Either this play comes from scum, or benefits scum. I'll reevaluate my

Sando

vote soon, but I don't townread him.

Now, let me know if you have any other solid reads. My scum pool is in profii/Anen/Shad/fitz/Jimmy/texcat/Creature (in no particular order), but I'm afraid I'm unable to come up with a couple who look more likely to be scum with Jay.

Creature

is giving me eww-vibes this dayphase, but there's several other people that have caught my attention.

I can see how

Aneninen

could be town. I'll have to enage with him, I just don't agree with most of his views so far.

profii

is the next wagon I'd like to hop on.

fitz

and

texcat

are wallpaper at the moment, but I feel like

texcat

is town, jury is still out on fitz.

Will ISO

Jimmy. Shadpearl

is still a question mark to me.

Seems I need to prod dodge.

I'm looking through Ausuka's ISO... Not really liking what I'm seeing. Looking lots at just pure activity levels for TGP yesterday. Nothing really since that point, though. Plus, I think I see some distancing tried from Jay during Day 1 a few times. Day 2 is not moving so fast, so I'm voting my hot read here.

VOTE: Ausuka

-Brass

Please elaborate on this.

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

can you explain why Taly might have gone from scum reading A50 to not doing so over the course of the flip into day 2 - admittedly I haven't been paying that much attention to this game during the enforced break?

I might have missed that.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

There are so many reasons to change your read on someone. Anything could have caused Taly to change his vote. Maybe he thinks the claim is towny, maybe he reconsidered the read.

The most sensible post I've seen in this entire game.

Seriously, I'm FoSing ANYONE who thinks I should've stayed with my reads early yesterday, regardless of

TheGoldenParadox

flip and

Almost50's

claim.

[Taly]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

can you explain why Taly might have gone from scum reading A50 to not doing so over the course of the flip into day 2 - admittedly I haven't been paying that much attention to this game during the enforced break?

I might have missed that.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

There are so many reasons to change your read on someone. Anything could have caused Taly to change his vote. Maybe he thinks the claim is towny, maybe he reconsidered the read.

i know and everyone knows everything you just said in that post

What I'm actually asking is can you explain where you think talys motivations come from?


By saying there could be a number of reasons you are fence sitting, ironically

Please ISO me and reread my posts,

proffii

...

If for some reason, there is any doubt in your mind about how I came to the conclusions of changing my scumreads, let me know....

Also, you could just ask me yourself instead of letting

Sando

and

Ausuka

dig though me first...

There's no reason to ask me that question- if you want the actual motivation just ask Taly.

THANK YOU.

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

But that's not at all what

Ausuka

said. She QUOTED my explanations for my scumreads. 839

What's the point of you pushing this? Really?

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

That
Or what if Taly killed Jay?

You know I already covered this, right?

Yup. Game solved.

I TOTALLY killed off the person I was wagoning and calling out. ((More Sarcasm))

Albeit, sarcastically, but honestly; if someone wants to stop doubtcasting me for a moment and

ACTUALLY GAUGE FOR A RESPONSE

.

Or you know... ask a question.

I'm waiting for that.

Before Jay got killed, he (she?) posted "people of interest" with Almost50, Flavor, Dino, and Jimmy listed.

What if the mafia team is Jay/Jimmy/Shadpearl?
Taly's the SK then.

Game solved.

Thanks, and goodbye!

Your reads seem easy considering that both Jimmy and Shadpearl have been consistently scumread by the general playerlist.

And your vote on the Jimmy wagon is easier, because you had maybe 2 quotes of him, and you voted without much, if any, questioning.

Thoughts on

profii

?

Taly's original wallpost against me was pretty much the definition of TvT, I mean he wants to paint literally EVERYTHING I've ever done this game as scummy. Scum don't do that, they look for small things to use against you, or they keep super quiet. Trying to look at the entire actions of a player and justify how every single action they've taken is scum motivated is a) silly, scum aren't scummy 100% of the time and b) not something scum are going to do. Figured I'd keep the fight going to see if anyone bit by now. I could buy SK, but I have NFI how to SK hunt tbh, especially in early days when they're just as motivated to scumhunt as anyone else.

UNVOTE:

*Makes extremely heavy breathing noises*

Seriously, I'm FoSing ANYONE who thinks I should've stayed with my reads early yesterday, regardless of TheGoldenParadox flip and Almost50's claim.

Ooooooo, you'll FOS them?! Scary!

Please tell me this was a joke.

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

What? I seriously feel like I'm missing some sort of point here with you. Why do I need to interpret what Taly is saying when I can just read what Taly is actually saying was the reason?

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot

I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

Is

Jimmy

really more odd than

proffi

though?

His posting is incredibly weak, but with each 'explanation-post' by

profii

, his thoughts are becoming more fake... Specifically that he's engaging with you about someone else, instead of pushing forth his own reads and thoughts.

everybody lies

or at least the scum do, so i suppose you are saying you think taly is just telling the truth, thats fine

...Are you kidding me?

1)

First off, where's that ISO you said you'd make and engage with me on? 773 and 791

2)

You probe

Ausuka

about me changing my scumreads in 800 and 831 WITHOUT engaging with me.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

Also, I never said, nor implied that this did.

And if you want to talk about how Ausuka is townreading me

"too confidently or too strongly"

, then why are you continuing the same line of questioning about my read changes?

3)

I already stated that 846 was not how I accurately viewed

Ausuka's

responses here. You say interpretations help progress the game but you don't say anything about your motivations here or what conclusions you're looking to find.

4)

There's many issues with this quote.

-

Yeah. I am telling the truth. Otherwise, why wouldn't I be voting for

Almost50

right now?

-

Town could lie as well. It's usually not in town's interest, but you can't just say

"everybody lies"

and say it's specific to scum.

-

This sounds like a weak excuse to write off ANY of my explanations in the game without hearing about yourself.

-

Why is it odd for Ausuka to believe in my explanations?

You never once say what YOU think about my scumreads, except for asking me in 791 and NEVER following up with my 813

Honestly, I'm feeling like there's some weird-ass attention being misplaced by

profii

here.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: profii

I'm a bit tired with back-and-forth with

Sando

...

VOTE: Havingfitz

I just don't like this slot, I know he's been V/LA a lot on day one, but since he's come back, he's done very little.

His vote on Jimmy is based on that hammer, and very little else. He hasn't taken a much of a stance in the time he's been here, and it's giving me a gut feeling that he isn't town.

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

- Kop

This is where your vote goes after a

profii

and

Jimmy

wagon has begun.

(Not to mention my ignored push on Sando.)

And that

Ausuka

,

Almost50

,

myself

, and

Shadpearl

have been either doubtcasted, voted, or scumread?

Spoiler: 2.3 VC

Official Vote Count 2.3

JimmyUrineMoneyShot (3) - havingfitz, Texcat, Aneninen
Taly (1) - Creature
Ausuka (1) - Kopherald
profii (1) - Ausuka
Shadpearl (1) - Sando

Not Voting (6) - Shadpearl, Mathdino, profii, Taly, JimmyUrineMoneyShot, Almost50

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Notes: havingfitz V/LA until Monday, looking for Mathdino replacement

(expired on 2018-04-02 19:30:00)

@Mod, my vote was on Sando.

But now it's on proffi.

[Taly]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

I will say,

Jimmy's

posts seem fabricated, I just haven't found a reason to think he's formed noteworthy opinions himself yet.

After skimming, I’m not interested in A50, Creature, Pearl, Sando, or Taly. I don’t really know what to do with Aneninen, Jimmy, Kop, and texcat but I see the Jimmy is being wagoned. Will re-read him first before taking a closer look at the others.

Very interested in Asuka, Fitz, and profii.

Yeah, could you elaborate on your reads here?

Also, do you have ANY commentary on

Mathdino

or

doomfeathers'

play this game?

Do you see any value in pursuing

Jimmy

right now? You talked about him in 896, but you haven't landed a vote anywhere.

right just re-reading the thread a bit, i was looking at Sando vs Taly and I can't see that as TvS... kinda unlikely that it would be scum theater to me so I'll call them both town for now.


I think Ausuka is town as well - i dont see why it's a problem to be more interested in peoples interpretations of other players motivations, rather than asking people directly - how can we trust anyones word pre-conf-towning - if they are just lying, they will just continue, i'm far more interested in what someone thinks someone else might be up to, it's harder to come up with a rationale for someone else thats made up than make up your own story. But anyway, I get that Ausuka is taking Taly's word for recent posts... so moving on...


Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Ugh,

profii

, I'm not going to let up until you actually decide to engage with me and answer my posts.

Considering that you think it's possibly weird that

Ausuka's

taking my word for the posts, I'm assuming you probably don't?

I don't see the purpose of looking into this

Sando V Taly Round 2

thing right now, it was a waste of time.

It was good to at least know that in

Sando's

perspective, 872, my opinions, thoughts, and pushes in this game are worth shit and I have 0 credibility.

Honestly, I agree with his assessment because of how much people are

TALKING AT/ABOUT ME, AND NOT TO ME.

Just a little salty today. I'm not mad, tho.

~

P-Edit

Texcat

, do you think

Jimmy-profii

could be connected? Is your read on them independent of the other?

[Taly]

I never said it was weird that she was taking your word

Then why are you questioning her when she quoted and took note of my explanations? 839 and 840

You keep talking around me with little stated reasoning and it's frustrating.

You also misrepped

Ausuka

in 846 as a means to say her actually LISTENING to my explanation didn't add up.

This all reads as fake.

1)

Either you don't believe my reads because you are not asking about them yourself, or trying to gauge further why I have the reads that I do.

2)

Or you do believe in them, and for some reason, you're trying to push

Ausuka

because... yeah?

I honestly do not see another probability here as to why you're posting like this. Furthermore, if it wasn't clear enough, it'd be nice to see you have an opinion on my reads if you're willing to question it.

I find it weird that she can't see why someone would want to ask.

....I don't get how you came to this conclusion. 837 is where she outlined her thoughts and it's not solely based on you asking me about my reads.

It tells me she trusts you

Um... She COULD townread me and think that my views are good discussion points? Trust in someone is NAI, specifically after D1, and plus, she has yet to truly elaborate on her read with me.

Or she could think that - after multiple people have questioned me on the SAME thing - that asking that question won't change her current view of me or the game?

Or, she could also just think there's better reasons to engage with me.

That's more than what I can say for a good portion of the playerlist.

- why would she trust anyone in a game where only the scum have trust between them?

So automatically taking someone's explanation and listening to it not only entails:

- Unusual amount of trust
- Trust can only be Scum-Scum interaction

That's the message I'm taking here.

Interesting that you are making assumptions and you are both scum reading me though

Nice.

After 2 posts from me directed to you with little or no response 813 867, this is the conclusion you come to, while making a weakly-formulated associative on

me+Ausuka

WITHOUT pushing it... What are you doing with the

Texcat

vote again?

Jimmy seems like an easy player to pick on, if he flips non-scum, I think we would need to look at his wagon - but I think he could very likely flip scum.
Havingfitz is hopefully simply busy IRL, hard really to cast judgement on that one.

I'll wait a bit to sort Shadpearl & LUV - I'm not sure what happened there


I noticed Texcat seems to appear in a few of the bigger wagons and is also pushing Jimmy again which as i said is a bit easy. I'm not a fan of this.


VOTE: Texcat

I've got a few more slots to look at more carefully but i am ok putting my vote there right now

Uhhh...So Jimmy is likely to flip scum, but you're voting me because I'm voting him. In what universe does that make sense?

LUV, welcome and thanks for 896, it makes me feel more positive in my Jimmy vote.

im voting you for being on a number of wagons yesterday and being on a wagon today... its like you just want people to die!

LOL. Wow, this is almost as funny as

Jay

shitposting to deflect my push on him. Not to say that this is shitposting, but it's ineffective.

Seems like a theme here.

1)

Why is being on wagons bad for town in D1? Literally, there's no information and jumping on wagons could be a means to get discussion going for later references. Could you at least elaborate on

Texcat's

votes on wagons being scummy...? ._.

2)

I can't take the

"its like you just want people to die!"

seriously, LOL. You don't ask questions, it looks like you're putting up a vote and finding reasons to justify it without saying

"let's look at this"

.

3)

Still don't fully understand your perspective on

Ausuka

and I? You say my interaction with

Sando

is TvT, but you point out that that 'engagement' with

Ausuka

is off?

Followed by your votes and explanations, I'm seeing this as less likely to come from a town POV.

[Taly]

Creature is engaged and actually posting. Unless he’s suddenly figured out how to replicate his town meta as scum, he’s town here. I will begin to only look at him a lot more closely if he’s still alive around end game.

He's gone about 3 days without posts if I'm not mistaken. What makes you want to wait to figure him out?

Pearl because I didn’t find his comment regarding my predecessor scummy and I recall it being harped on way too much for my liking. I don’t think it’s rare for someone to ask the crowd to leave someone alive even if they’re being heavily scum read or wagoned. It’s helpful to see who avoids taking about said person, who defends said person, etc.

I can empathize and follow his reasoning in 215 for his awkwardness and suspicion he’s drawn early on. The way he claims to do things matches up with 142 and 183. The reads also given in this post seem genuine.

Since I see that you've noted some reads revolving around Shadpearl's interactions D1, has anything changed your reads looking at D2 so far?

Sando because I can follow where the former of 40 is coming from. I played a Newbie with Sando a few months back and to make a long story short, Creature was scum, basically did nothing, and won. “So yeah lack of engagement gets my juices flowing on Creature.” reads very eager to not only be confident that Creature is scum here but to actually lynch him.

I haven’t read a lot of the long-winded posts from Sando but I’ll be happy to re-read any you feel are important. At a glance, his posting reminds me of that Newbie.

I'd like to point you to

Page 32-34

, what did you think about

profii

questioning my reads and then shifting his focus to

Ausuka

?

Also, I'm not going to get into another scrap with

Sando

right now, but I don't quite know why people are writing us off as TvT, I don't see a lot of explanation for that. Does reading

Sando

and I more in depth throughout this dayphase help cultivate stronger reads on us?

Texcat

, do you think

Jimmy-profii

could be connected? Is your read on them independent of the other?

I started with an independent scum read on Jimmy, although he's got so little content that it was not a strong read.

But after Profii's 895, they certainly could be connected. Profii looks a lot like scum trying desperately to find a wagon. He is throwing shade on you and Ausuka. He voted me because I was on a few wagons on D1?? And yet he thinks Jimmy is likely to flip scum. If he is scum in search of a wagon, then surely he could have voted Jimmy. There's a wagon already made for him.

Jimmy doesn't have enough content to read properly. But his vote on me for my RVS votes was atrocious. If Jimmy flips scum, Profii is scum. If Jimmy flips town, I'm not so sure about Profii. If Profii flips scum, Jimmy is scum. If Profii flips town, I think it's NAI for Jimmy.

I'm willing to vote for either one of them at this point. Unfortunately, I can't vote both of them.

At this point, they're both just about equally scum in my eyes.

Whereas

Jimmy

is doing next to nothing about anything to contribute to the game or to question his wagon,

profii

has actively made responses to my pressure toward him that I don't find coming from town.

Here's an in-depth view on profii here:

Spoiler: ISO Between Profii and My Replies To Him

773 - Questions why I think I'm mislynch bait, and asks me if I thought Lalendra was NKed because of doc-vibes.

///

Automatically wants to ISO me when I think I'm a mislynch target.
774 - He states that he doesn't see any crumb from Lalendra and sort of downplays her scumhunting her. He says that she wasn't good to be a mislynch bait, but she wasn't a good threat to kill off either?

*Note*

Weird thing here is,

profii's

looking for reasons on why he thinks

Lalendra

wouldn't have been a good NK-target, versus actually looking for plausible reasons or people who could have killed her off.

789 - I told him I didn't believe

Lalendra

crumbed anything, and looking at her ISO, I still don't think so..... He still hasn't ISOed me.
791 -

profii

questions my reads on

Almost50

and the doomfeathers slot, AFTER I explained why I'm not going to doubtcast

Almost50's

claim. Says me making a case against myself is LAMIST (what does this mean)? In either case, he stated that this seems convenient from me... and how? Why is he not paying attention to me recent post on

Almost50's

claim?
800 - Wants an explanation from

Ausuka

on my reads toward

Almost50

and says that I'm not cleared... But why ask

Ausuka

and not me?

*Note*

Still no ISO on me though...

813 - I elaborated in depth on why it's anti-town in my view to doubtcast

Almost50's

claim, and why I'm not going to pursue Mathdino because of his replace out.
838 - Asks

Ausuka

for my motivations in my reads... even though I just listed them. Turns the argument back onto

Ausuka

, and says that SHE'S the one, in fact, fence-sitting.
846 - Despite

Ausuka

fully elaborating on what she views on my read,

profii

says that this is when the game stops working, because in his view, she's

"not going to speculate that

"... Speculate what? The validity of my reads? Why?
860 - He continues to say that everybody lies, as a response to

Ausuka's

point on me... but then specifies lying is specific to scum?
867 - I prod him, and call him out while giving reasons on why I think his approach is not good, and prompt him with questions about his point.
895 - Literally does not reply to my case-post at all, still mentions the fact that

Ausuka

sees the rationale behind my posts, and THEN places a vote on

Texcat

because.... YAY?
900 - I point him to my thought progression... again.
901 - He makes a weak associative with

Ausuka

and I despite saying I'm TvTing with

Sando

, and says that trust is specific to scum-scum, notes that

Ausuka

and I are scumreading him because... that's bad?

*Note* Most odd thing here is that he says I'm making assumptions about him... even though I've told him a lot about my viewpoint so far, and I don't see a consistency with his read development in this dayphase.

902 - Continues to paint

Texcat

as scum without real stated reasoning?
903 - I jump all over that post in here.[/bb]

This does not come from town, imo. His play so far feels dodgy, and he seems like he's trying to do a lot, by doing so little.

They may or may not be connected, but I'm guessing that your reason for voting

Jimmy

is because he's scum to you despite

profii's

flip? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I may considering hopping onto the

Jimmy

wagon, but my biggest pullback from that is;

Jimmy

, like

TheGoldenParadox

, has had very bad posts and did not do anything toward their wagon. While it's arguable

Jimmy

has more scum-motivation behind them, I want to focus or push people who have been actively posting things that ring off scum alarms and not repeat a possible mistake in D1.

That's my thought process at the moment. My scumread on

profii

is becoming is mostly independent, similar yours is on

Jimmy

.

In either case, I'm going to ISO them both and see the interactions between each other.

[Taly]

After seeing

Luv's

responses and in-depth thoughts on reads and such, I'm feeling more confident on my townread over that slot. I townread

doomfeathers

near my absence in D1, and I didn't initially understand

Mathdino's

direction of posts, but seeing how

Luv

has approached this game with well-formulated thoughts and nothing that seems fabricated, I'm feeling good here.

But I am curious

Luv

, you have a few scumreads, but what's keeping you from starting or joining a current wagon?

~~~~

I seriously doubt noobscum would fake or go in depth with an analysis and opinion such as this. 941

I agree also, I don't see the point of holding off on the SK. I don't think there's enough information to suggest an independent scum player, but this game is ending D5 if we don't find a way to keep the killcount from being 2 per night.

Which is another reason why I'm not lynching our current doc-that-has-claimed...

My townread on

Shadpearl

is still partially gut, but any type of gutreads are progressively less plausible after D2....

1)

Review the posts I linked above to

Almost50

about

profii

.

2)

Please elaborate on your

Jimmy

read and the current wagon on him.

The game has come to a stagnation.. again. I have not much more to add tbh, so I'll just drop my vote on Jimmy putting him @L-2 and leave it to you all to decide when the day should end.

VOTE: Jimmy

:/ I get that this game is slowing down, but you could evaluate my posts on

profii

,

((867, 900, 903, 929))

do you think

Jimmy's

a better lynch regardless?

A quick thought.
I found it weird that Havingfits had asked about my V/LA.
He'd hardly done anything. Why was it that important? I'm not an important player here anyway.

...Because it's good to know when people could post? Would you rather us not know when you're available and have critical game discussion without you?

Also, I haven't seen much from you this dayphase, either.

I'm still happy with my vote on Fitz.

I'd love to provide you with a stronger case, I will ISO him again, but from what I remember seeing, there isn't much.

- Kop

I'm still happy with my vote on

profii

.

So how about you ISO

Fitz

, and then ISO me and

profii

while you're at it.

The game has come to a stagnation.. again

Qft.

I haven't got a lot of room to talk but things have ground to a halt it seems.

6 days is still time to lynch elsewhere if a promising wagon develops but that would involve people participating.

I'll try to get refreshed on the game over the next few days and do a few isos...give expanded reads. Etc etc.

This is why I'm not in a particular hurry to end the day. A flip would greatly help me with my reads, and while I soon, will join the

Jimmy

wagon if I'm seriously

THAT

invisible to

most/all

of you,

Creature

, you, and

Anenien

have not really placed their thoughts in here at all.

Though, conversely, each day that passes with

profii

and

Jimmy

not in the thread and not responding well to their pushes, makes me scumread them more.

[Taly]

I was actually going to wait until tonight to vote to see if Jimmy will show-up

What made you change your mind?

Meh. I'll vote profii if it comes to it but I feel like Jimmy is intentionally trying to be useless here. Profii could be town with a playstyle that's hard to understand, but I see jimmy as a lot less likely to be that way.

Can you elaborate on what makes you view

profii

to be that way?

Taly - sorry been IRL busy

Time for us to interact, ask me any questions and I promise to answer (10pm here and Mrs Profii is about to come in plus she has an early start tomorrow so answers might be later)

But let's go!

Cool, so here are some questions I'd like to ask you:

1)

Can you elaborate on your push/vote toward

Texcat

?

2)

What are your reads on

Ausuka

,

myself

,

Jimmy

,

Fitz

,

Shadpearl

, and

Kopherald

?

3)

What do you think about mine,

Luv

, and

Sando's

vote on you?

4)

How do you feel about

Almost50's

doc-claim?

I seriously doubt noobscum would fake or go in depth with an analysis and opinion such as this. 941

The reason scum rarely wallpost like that is because it's hard to maintain consistency and look like you're truly scumhunt over long blocks of text. Shadpearl is not consistent in terms of their actions, and doesn't actually effectively scumhunt, actually suggests SK hunting. So yes, it's unlikely for scum to wallpost, because they'll probably mess up...and Shad messed up.

I'll do a read of Profii today, tbh I haven't got much of an opinion on him, but his interactions around the Jimmy wagon are pretty dodge though today.

Clearly I'm not accomplishing anything on Shad, we're all buying the noobtown. I would vote Jimmy but he needs to respond to L-2 first. I'm not sold on Profii completely yet, I'll read more in the next few hours.

Can you point out the post where

Shadpearl

'messed up'? ISOing you, I believe I know what posts you're referring to, but I want clarification.

We have been having some more quiet discussions in the background. Kop is better at giving his full reads, and is leading the way on the fitz push, but has not been around as much.

My personal inactivity is due to having had basically no internet and not wanting to step on Kop's toes with his fitz reasoning.

We are definitely united on the fitz read, and Kop talked me out of the Ausuka read because I was being impulsive. Kop is going to expand more on the fitz stuff being better at actually getting out thoughts rather than my shorthand, but both of us agree it's more than just inactivity and the Jimmy vote.

-Brass

I still don't get the activity-based Fitz scumread, could you look through him and give a more detailed case?

Also, what about his case precedes

profii

or

Jimmy's

in terms of likely-scum?

[Taly]

Can't reply in depth right now, but I skimmed the thread.

UNVOTE:

Will further explain thought process later.

[Taly]

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

I now realize I misread the second quote here. My apologies for that.

VOTE: Jimmy

He needs to be hanged or replaced, if the mod checks the thread again.

-Brass

OK, first off, is this L-1?

[Taly]

Kopherald

, the most info. I've seen you give about

Fitz-scum

is mostly meta and/or activity, I don't know what's odd about his

Jimmy

vote? Please point that out.

Also, what makes you think

profii

would only be useful if we voted him? Was that the point of your vote?

Sando

, I don't see the

Fitz/profii

associative reasoning...

Shadpearl

, respond to 952 and my questions.

Yes that’s L-1

Gut tells me this is more likely coming from town.

When I'm evaluating 979, I don't exactly get the impression it's coming from scum.

Profii

states that he's actively going to try and review his reads, and while I don't see a grand reasoning for his cases toward his scumreads and the

Texcat

vote, I'm starting to question if that's AI at the moment.

I'm not sold on

town-Profii

at the moment, but

Jimmy

looks worse in retrospect, and I don't know about the votes or push on him:

974, can you elaborate on why

profii

was your choice to vote versus

Jimmy

?

969, assuming you voted to gauge for information or a reaction

Sando

, did profii's latest vote alleviate any of your concerns?

I've consistently had

profii

and

Jimmy

at a similar scumread level, but I'm second guessing myself with

profii

at the moment. He's engaged with me, which is far more than what I can say for

Jimmy

. After further thought I'm starting to see

Ausuka's

view here.

Profii

to his credit, HAS done town-oriented things in questioning others and gaining reads. While they don't usually seem fabricated or focused, I can't get past

Jimmy's

absence in the game, followed by the quickhammer and artifical hunting.. He's done little to nothing.

Right now, I'm going to make an ISO map on

profii/Jimmy

to point out interactions pre/post flip.

^^I will likely express intent to hammer in this next post.

[Taly]

Spoiler: ISO Map Key

+ working together with somebody, townreading them, defending them, buddying them, helping them, allying with them
++ explicitly calling someone a townread
- working against somebody, scumreading them, attacking them, pushing them, discrediting them
-- explicitly calling someone a scumread
= neutral interactions, usually quoting somebody without either attacking or defending them, sometimes these are just interactions about setup spec or passing mentions of a slot, sometimes this is responding to a case someone made against you without making it clear whether you’re scumreading them in return or townreading them.
== stating explicitly that a person is a null read
? I didn’t understand this reaction. this modifies a previous symbol, so +? means “is this an interaction with a townread?” and -? means “is this an interaction with a scumread?” and +?-? means i have no clue what’s going on in that post.
v votes
u unvotes but only if someone says who they’re unvoting because i’m lazy
☀ marks boundaries between days
✝ a gravestone to mark that a slot has died.
R marking the boundaries where a replacement occurred

The underlined are people that I'm at least very confident are town.

JimmyUrineShot 234 to 834

Taly

+709 ☀

Almost50

+709 ☀

Ausuka

+709 =750 ☀

Creature

=?234 =-?396 +709 ☀

Doomfeathers/Mathdino/Lil Uzi Vert

-?396 R --709 -734 -750 R

havingfitz

==709 ☀

Aneninen

+734 ☀ -831 =834

Kopherald

+709 ☀

Shadpearl

=234 ☀ =750

Sando

=579 ==709 ☀

texcat

==709 ☀ -831

profii

++709 ☀

______________________________________________________

Lalendra

+709 ✝☀

Flavor Leaf/TheGoldenParadox

+579 -707

--709 v-737 ✝☀

JayDragonKing

==+?709 ✝☀ -831

Personal Notes
1)

Hasn't expanded on his reads.

2)

Hasn't interacted with most people much at all.

3)

Loosely and poorly tried to associate

Texcat/Aneninen

with

JayDragonKing

, despite TOWNREADING those two before D1 ended.

4)

Only vote in the entire game thus far was on the

Flavor Leaf

hammer, after somewhat defending TheGoldenParadox's slot and then not believing

Flavor Leaf's

doc-claim, I'd assume.

5)

No reaction to his wagon.

6)

Placed

Me/Ausuka/Almost50/Kopherald/Creature

in town-zone for virtually no stated reason, without any further engagement.

After looking at him in depth, I understand the wagon on him.

I want to ISO map

profii

before I do something with my vote, but that will take a bit longer.

[Taly]

profii 13 to 994

Taly

+370 +372 ☀ -=773 =774 -791 -?800 ?838 =846 -860 +895 -901 +979 +994

Almost50

=129 +188 +194 -221 -==251 =287 =308 -=315 -345 -370 +568 =580 +-585 -598 +680 ☀ ?800

Ausuka

=81 ==221 ?273 =294 =428 +585 ☀ =800 -838 -846 =860 +=895 +

Creature

-71 ?81 +129 +221 223 +251 ?287 +370 ?390 =480 ☀

Doomfeathers/Mathdino/Lil Uzi Vert

=24 -==44 v=?48 -71 ?81 -129 ?188 +251 ?287 -291 +308 -315 -345 +-?361 -370 =390 R =580 ==585 -?598 +680 +683 ☀R

havingfitz

☀ -979

Aneninen

v-361 -370 -372 ☀

Kopherald

=33 =69 =109 +111 ?221 =223 +251 ☀ ==979

Shadpearl

+-44 ==48 +71 -?81 +221 ☀ +

Sando

+221 ☀ +895

texcat

=226 ☀ v-895 -902 -

JimmyUrineShot

-708 ☀ ==895 -

_____________________________________________________________________

Lalendra

v-221 ?390 ✝☀ ?773 ?774

Flavor Leaf/TheGoldenParadox

v-13 v-188 =196 v-291 -370 ==413 v-472 ==484 R u585 -598[post] v--[post=680]680 +683 ✝☀ -980

JayDragonKing

-?466 =472 ?482 =484 ✝☀

Personal Notes
1)

Profii

has few consistent reads throughout D1.

2)

Usually responds when prompted and gives a form of reasoning.

3) Profii

how do you feel about

Jimmy

wagon/lynch?

4)

...Still not sure about the constant unvote/revote of

TheGoldenParadox

...

5) Profii

, you seem concerned with the votes and thoughts of a group as a whole versus your own at times.

6)

Does not give me the impression of someone wanting to lynch and cast suspicion just to do that. Takes time to form and reevaluate reads.

7)

Hasn't discussed much with people D2

8)

But I still don't get his reasons for townreading

Ausuka

and I

9)

I liked the full elaboration he had on his vote on TheGoldenParadox near the ending of D1

Profii

is town, going to state intent of hammer on

Jimmy

, but I won't hammer until tomorrow.

P-Edit

What. The Fuck.

[Taly]

omg i'm not even sure what to say to this

What the hell just happened.

[Taly]

OMG. I ruined the post numbering so badly on that map.



I was just shocked by the quickhammer.

[Taly]

I think profii is town tho, not sure

Don't trust Shadpearl anymore tho

[Taly]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that hammer either, but I

was going to explicitly stated intent before I do ANYTHING, and I wanted anyone else going to vote to do the same.

But, I don't know if I should laugh or cry at the moment. rthgseafwsefawref

I don't understand the noises I'm making right now

[Taly]

But, I don't know if I should laugh or cry

This is literally the first thing that went through my head when I saw the hammer tbh

LOL RIGHT?

Maybe 48 hours is enough time to regain composure.

[Taly]

Most of my reads have reverted to "WTF" at this point

Creature

has been inactive site-wide up until recently, so with his posting, I believe this is him as town.

Ausuka

still seems towny to me, I keep trying to look at the reasons for people suspecting her and I don't see them.
I don't know about

Almost50

at the moment, but with only 1 person NKed and 11 left, I still do not know why people want to lynch that just yet

Everyone else is a weak town, or weak scumread. :/

I want

Kopherald

to respond to

Ausuka's

push.

I'm sort of relieved

Aneninen

was NKed, because we'd probably be TvTing right now. I don't think with a playerlist this large a crosskill was likely.
But a doc being lucky is even more unlikely... and not NKing seems dumb, unless this was intentionally to make people push others based off doubtcasting a claim or drawing out a dichotomy within the town.

Taly

, Profii, HavingFitz,

JimmyUrquanwhatzit

may be scum.

Where's Creature?
The LilUzi slot is confusing with all those replacements.

This was

Aneninen's

last post.

Profii

was on neither mislynch wagon.

Havingfitz

was on

Flavor Leaf's

mislynch wagon.

Let's start here
VOTE: havingfitz

Only one doc left. So we could have a counterclaim now. And either the doc got really lucky or scum and SK both killed Aneninen.

Taly went from scum reading Profii to town reading him in a very short period of time, and I'm not sure I followed his reasoning.

ShadPearl was not on my scum list, but that hammer was pretty awful.

Creature, why should we town read you?

Why is a counterclaim good with 11 people still alive....?

Um... I also did an ISO map on Profii, outlining my own notes and questions, which I'll note soon. So yeah, while my reads were quick, they weren't unexplained.

But at this point, I'm waffling a lot and I'm working to instill myself with conviction at the moment.

Only one doc left. So we could have a counterclaim now. And either the doc got really lucky or scum and SK both killed Aneninen.

SCUM CLAIM!

Wanting to either confirm me as Doctor or our the real one for them to kill.

NOBODY COUNTER TODAY!

VOTE: texcat

Are you saying you fakeclaimed, or is that just people wanting you to have fakeclaimed?

@profii - I just wanted to hammer someone. That's it x)

Please do not hammer like that again... X_X You ALWAYS should have a warning prior to a hammer. I thought this was clear after

Jimmy's

shameless vote.

Almost50 is scum. I see no other option but how the flying futternugget is he not dead?! No one is that lucky. No one wants to Lynch a Doc claim, and I get that, but I also feel like doctors are severely limited this game so... Meh. Wasn't that concerned earlier, not that concerned now. (Although it would be hilarious to me if we DID manage to Lynch all our Docs)

I don't really expect anyone to follow this rabbit hole though, lol

So wait, you are saying

Almost50

is scum and he's not being truthful based on what?

Doctors are very limited this game, and by this point, it's highly improbable for a doctor to successfully protect someone at this point.

[Taly]

What the hell, so I vote to get

Havingfitz's

attention - the second vote by the way, he gets pushed to L-2, and now I'm being pushed?

...OK.

Damn, I've never had a townread get destroyed so quickly in a game before. 1049 and 1050

I'm breaking this up into several posts.

Taly

, Profii, HavingFitz,

JimmyUrquanwhatzit

may be scum.

Where's Creature?
The LilUzi slot is confusing with all those replacements.

This was

Aneninen's

last post.

Profii

was on neither mislynch wagon.

Havingfitz

was on

Flavor Leaf's

mislynch wagon.

Let's start here
VOTE: havingfitz

actually i really dont like this. the self colouring is very LAMIST and also confused me as i glanced through which might have been the point.

OK, first off:

1)

Never use the word LAMIST again. It's just a buzzword that doesn't catch scum or actively detail what you think of someone's view.

2)

I'm "trying to look town" because I am town and I'm looking at people aside from myself to game solve?

Like, are you disliking this because I didn't scumclaim or something? Or are you just trying to find a reason to nitpick at it to provide more for your case?

3)

The point of coloring was to evaluate

Aneninen's

reads, and begin pushing people based off them since he was the NK. I also looked more exclusively at Aneninen because I was unsure about several reads, and I still am, so I looked at that to start generating discussion.

How about, you ask me for explanations and motivations instead of writing off my posts as scum-oriented and pushing me off little value like you did D2?

You are apparently town reading Creature on the sole premise he is posting, which seems weak

After looking at other games of

Creature

, I think the meta on him is usually correct. Plus, his activity is not the FULL reason I townread him, but it's good you make that assumption, discrediting one of my few townreads while you try to find reasons to push me.

_Creature, in this game, has shown that he's not susceptible to pushing someone endlessly, and that he's evaluating multiple people at once to gauge how to approach the given situation. His very thought process strikes me as town.

You are also voting for HF on the basis that I wasnt on mislynchs which again doesn't seem thorough.

Seriously, what is your point? I was doing a Vote-Count Analysis on who was on the mislynch wagons to deduce who was more possibly scum pushing for them. It was based on Aneninen's reads, so I was going to push in a small pool of people to help provide perspective on my view of this game.

You weren't my first push because I was townreading, and that you weren't on a mislynch wagon at the end of the days.

I'm going to re-ISO you and here is what I get...

So, you finally ISO me, in the same post you seemed to have designated where I'm scum or scummy? OK.

1004 - this pinged me, i know this isn't a read per se, but why didnt you just fix your post before you posted, the hammer will have been in your PEdit, so why mention this. Seems contrived.

Looking at those ISO Maps things, I can't really be too critical of anything there, I can see the reasons for the Jimmy lynch.

Try looking at post numbers for 2 hours, and then when you're almost done, you see a BS hammer happen out of nowhere.

I wasn't going to let all the information go to waste for the dayphase in the event I was NKed, so I posted what information was properly created, without fully looking back at the editing mistakes.

Why are you painting this as if it were planned? -_- I made it

ABUNDANTLY

clear that I wanted

INTENT TO BE EXPRESSED

prior to any final vote.

998 ok so you've picked up that KopHerald is meta reading here HavingFitz and you are now voting HF. Let's note that for later.

Thanks for misrepping me and completely confusing my reasons for voting

Havingfitz

as

Kopherald's

reasoning.

I haven't had a strong read on

havingfitz

for the entirety of this game, my vote was to get a reaction from him to help over his wagon to help me with that.

Please, note my vote for later, I've literally pushed all game to try and have my thoughts put out in the open for clarity, but apparently, that's not working right now.

973 is mostly questions and no reads, but you do again make a point about KopHeralds read on HF. Again, noting.

Um... I ask questions to HELP get reads? I think it's a much more valid approach than compiling a weak case against someone solely because you did something that someone said could be a scum thing. -_-

I've also stated in just about every other post my read development, if you have a question,

ASK.

952 interesting bit at the end of this post where you want people to interact with you

LOL! OMG, I'm scummy because I WANT to communicate and work together with people in this game, because that will make solving it much easier?

That's really funny.

Ok, so I feel like Taly, you are the sort of player who sorts people by talking directly to them rather than just assessing the game in general as it rolls on.

Again, this is false. If you looked at any of my votes, or ISO maps, or readslist, I don't JUST talk directly to people, I make my own judgments on top of that, which are BASED around interactions.

Plus, why is it weird that I do talk directly to people? Why is unclear or muddled communication helpful at all in this game?

I also feel like you've jumped on HavingFitz without a real interaction with him so that seems incongruent to me and it makes me think that's a better place for my vote to be right now

So....

1)

You don't ask why I voted for

havingfitz

.

2)

You jumped on

havingfitz's

wagon yourself WITHOUT reasoning, and you admittedly sheeped. 1042]1042

3)

You jumped off the moment

Ausuka

said she thought it was a mislynch wagon, and that scum could be on it.

VOTE: Taly

4)

And you make this post SOLELY to scumpaint me, misconstrue my point, and then vote me.

This... If this is town, it needs to know that this is not helping game progress at all. I VOTED for

havingfitz

to gain more meaningful interaction with him.

The day just started, tell me about the scum motivation.

[Taly]

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

Do you town read Fitz? Why do you believe it's a mislynch?

- Kop

The way the wagon suddenly built up, basically just because he's been inactive, is really gross.

If Taly is scum I'd practically lock town HavingFitz I think. Good point

Thanks for yet ANOTHER dichotomy, I thought you believed

havingfitz

was a good vote? I mean, you sheeped

Kopherald

in 1042

VOTE: profii

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

This was all it took for you to jump off a wagon,

((after pushing it to L-2 without stating it))

- and to go after someone voting on it, without trying to get gauge for thoughts.

This is opportunistic.
This is what distancing is.
This is trying to make yourself look less 'bad', due to an opinion of one person.
This is backtracking on a push.

[Taly]

Also, pro-damn-tip to the playerlist:

If your vote pushes someone to L-2, and specially L-1; ANNOUNCE IT!

If someone can be hammered, EXPRESS INTENT! Seriously, IT IS NOT HARD PEOPLE.

IT IS NOT.

WE HAVE HAD TWO MISLYNCHES BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE TRIGGER HAPPY AND HAMMERED PRIOR TO A STATED TIME.

[Taly]

you seem to take this personally based on flicking through that wall post but I'll respond to the key points now...

No, I actually seldom, if ever take things personally in Mafia. I don't get angry.

I get passionate. I get indignant. I bold, underline, and do caps sometimes to emphasize my biggest points.

But I don't take things personally, if you feel like I'm being too intense, then please let me know and I'll quickly change my tune.

[Taly]

ok well let's call it passionate then. I am the opposite of you, I am cool as a cucumber at all times. If that helps you take tone from my posts, the great.

Let's go:

1) Never use the word LAMIST again. It's just a buzzword that doesn't catch scum or actively detail what you think of someone's view.
2) I'm "trying to look town" because I am town and I'm looking at people aside from myself to game solve?

Like, are you disliking this because I didn't scumclaim or something? Or are you just trying to find a reason to nitpick at it to provide more for your case?

3) The point of coloring was to evaluate Aneninen's reads, and begin pushing people based off them since he was the NK. I also looked more exclusively at Aneninen because I was unsure about several reads, and I still am, so I looked at that to start generating discussion.

How about, you ask me for explanations and motivations instead of writing off my posts as scum-oriented and pushing me off little value like you did D2?

I flicked through the thread initially and saw a HF wagon. I saw your colour coding thing and saw me and him in white. I obviously know I'm town so that made me think well HF seems like a good wagon. Sometimes I can't be bothered making an entire extra case because it's pointless if it's already been done so I just sheeped and put the vote down to put a reaction in from HF.

Well, I obviously know I'm town too. The point of the post wasn't to say

"YAY, I'M TOWN GUYS, BYE."

I was looking at data in the thread and establishing a discussion from that. And so far, your response to me looking at

havingfitz,

and wondering about you, has merely reaffirmed the suspicions of your mentality in this game early D2.

You, seemingly deliberately, ignored the point of my post to find an excuse to discredit or scumread me. I mean, why else would you hop on a wagon and then jump off the second it gets the slightest amount of pushback?

Why else would you NOT provide thoughts over your sheep-vote 1042, but devalue someone else's valid reasoning behind a vote not even a page later?

And plus, I made my thoughts clear on my vote towards

havingfitz

, why did you just throw a vote on him, pushing him to L-2, without even trying to ask questions or discuss things yourself?

When I actually read your post properly I realised you coloured yourself in and you are not conf town at all.

This makes no sense, you're pushing me because I'm looking for discussion about people outside of myself? What?

I never just said

"hey guys, don't bother interacting with me!"

Are you telling me I'm scum because I didn't admit to be scum? ....What the hell?

We are all here to try and appear town - that is literally the point of this game - but colouring yourself in the same as a flip was a bit iffy. LAMIST one could say. Buzzword or not, it's true.

Um... Because I'm pretty sure when I die, you are going to see nothing but green? If you tell me you wouldn't do the same, I wouldn't believe it, regardless of alignment.

But it's also good to know that that is the ONLY thing you like at, ignoring my reasoning, and my vote. -_-

And, if I think you are scum and I acknowledge that you like to interact directly with people, I'm not going to interact directly with you. I'm going to vote you and get a reaction out of you. Annoying scum makes them slip. Annoying town makes them slip, either way it helps everyone read people.
I seem to have achieved that without a great deal of effort I think, so I'm going to re-read you (and probably avoid asking you too many questions, you'd like that...)

Wow... Do I have to explain to you, how unhelpful that approach to this game is? You're literally pushing valuable discussion away, in favor of YOUR own reads and agenda.

Communication prevents scum from maneuvering against town. The fact that you're going to ignore pieces of conversation, despite the importance you deem it, is nothing but scum-motivated in my eyes.

You're openly trying to derail conversation.

Seriously, what is your point?

[In response to me saying: You are also voting for HF on the basis that I wasnt on mislynchs which again doesn't seem thorough.]

I would say a town thing to do is to go make a case on everything someone is doing, you have picked on elements of my play which seems shoehorning where you want your vote to be.

OK, you're intentionally mixing 2 different things at once.

1)

When it came to

havingfitz

, I didn't have a defined case, I used basic reasoning, and I voted to apply pressure for him to engage with me, since that hasn't really happened much yet.

2)

When it came to

YOU

, I've made my thoughts and view of you

EXPLICITLY

clear for literally the past 2 dayphases. I've responded to you, I've voted you, I've line-by-lined you, I've ISOed, I've given reads on you...

There is no other conceivable way I can justify a vote on you beyond what I've already stated.

And don't come for me about not building cases on my scumreads, I've done that for all my votes in this game, and when I haven't, I did it to push my reads. That's a lot more than what I can say for your vote on

havingfitz

.

Try looking at post numbers for 2 hours, and then when you're almost done, you see a BS hammer happen out of nowhere

it was a relatively minor point in the grand scheme of things, it just irritated me. If you go to the effort of doing everything you did, surely you'd go to the effort of making it perfecto. Your post, your call.

>_> I had no idea when twilight would end, that's why I didn't take much time to edit it. Plus, I didn't think the linking was that terrible until after I posted it.

It was human error.

I haven't had a strong read on havingfitz for the entirety of this game, my vote was to get a reaction from him to help over his wagon to help me with that.

as above, so was my vote.

if you have a question, ASK.

as above, I'll do me, you do you. Sorry.

LOL! OMG, I'm scummy because I WANT to communicate and work together with people in this game, because that will make solving it much easier?

That's really funny.

[In response to me posting: 952 interesting bit at the end of this post where you want people to interact with you]

Apologies on this one - I suppose I could have elaborated further- we've obviously established you like direct interactions, but my point in that post was you didnt delve into dealing with HF directly and you ended up voting him. I still think voting on VCA only without really going into the HF ISO and finding a case is a bit suspect so I'm not being convinced to remove my vote rn but if you want to OMGUS now, that's ok, as i said, you do you.

...Don't say OMGUS again either. That's a term solely meant to minimize someone's point.

And why were you digging into my vote and finding reasons to suspect my posts instead of engaging with them? ....This cannot be scummier in my eyes, genuinely.

But while we're on this topic again, why did you sheep-vote

Havingfitz

? Where was your ISO on him? Why did you jump off the wagon?

So....
1) You don't ask why I voted for havingfitz.
2) You jumped on havingfitz's wagon yourself WITHOUT reasoning, and you admittedly sheeped. 1042]1042
3) You jumped off the moment Ausuka said she thought it was a mislynch wagon, and that scum could be on it.

1) by voting and saying you haven't given a reason, is basically the same as asking, you've not answered which makes me think you dont really have a good case.
2) Partly based on your dodgy colouring in - my bad i should have read more carefully
3) She made a good point that there is likely scum in the wagon, i seem to have a case on someone in the wagon, so seems like a better place to vote than HF

Just for clarity, if your wagon doesn't take off and the HF wagon wavers, I'll put my vote back to get a reaction out of him to sort him, so neither of you are in the clear for me.

4) I'd call it making a case, but I expect you to try and discredit it. I'd give you a 5/10 for trying.

1) BECAUSE IT WASN'T A CASE, IT WAS A PUSH.

If you took more time to read 1051, you might have realized that.

2)

Yes, because I'm conftown and nobody should ever bother with me in this game.

Yup.... I've been caught.

3)

That's a bad reason to just flip off a wagon and come for the people on it. Before a wagon discussion happened, you derailed it.

And no, this post DOES NOT entail that you think both of us are unclear:

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

Do you town read Fitz? Why do you believe it's a mislynch?

- Kop

The way the wagon suddenly built up, basically just because he's been inactive, is really gross.

If Taly is scum I'd practically lock town HavingFitz I think. Good point

You literally set-up a dichotomy to where, upon one of us flipping, that means the other is definitely the other alignment. If you were town, and had ANY lack of confidence in your reads on both of us... WHY would you make this statement?

And why would you hop off my wagon if it doesn't get traction? So, someone might not be lynched, then you stop trying to voice your opinions?

This tells me you're waiting for a wagon strong enough in pull to where you can just flip someone. It's opportunistic because it doesn't sound like your reasons are genuine.

4)

Thanks again

Profii

, I needed yet another person in this game to tell me, that my responses, pushes, and opinions, meant nothing. Yay! I don't think I've ever mindlessly been discredited this much in Mafia before.

[Taly]

Taly, can you explain your town read of Profii late in the day yesterday? I'm confused. You were hard scum reading him all day yesterday and then at the 10th or 11th hour you suddenly moved to town reading him. I can understand that perhaps the Jimmy lynch looked marginally better than the Profii lynch, but you said that Profii was town.

I stated that

profii

was town, but I wasn't confident at the point of the hammer. I ISO mapped

profii

and it helped me understand his view of the game at the time.

Also, I wasn't sure about

Sando

or

Lil Uzi Vert's

votes, and I asked about them to gain a better understanding, but I don't recall getting a full response. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ausuka

and

Almost50

also already stated that they weren't willing to push

profii

, and I figured I should reread to see what they saw.

But right now, after recent posts, I'm beginning to realize that I may have been correct in my original D2 read on him. :/

[Taly]

Wait, fuck. L-1 at the moment? I need to read the past 3 pages.

NOBODY HAMMER WITHOUT INTENT AND A WARNING, AND ESPECIALLY NOT BEFORE I POST.

[Taly]

Hmmmm ok

UNVOTE: Taly

You can be town

...? So, you don't address my points and place me as town because... TvTs are possible?

I just don't see that much genuine thought behind your posts, consistently, within this game?

Also, I wasn't sure about Sando or Lil Uzi Vert's votes, and I asked about them to gain a better understanding, but I don't recall getting a full response. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I typically go out of my way to talk through at least my initial vote on someone, this was no exception. You asked "assuming I was gauging for reaction", and I wasn't gauging for reaction, I felt he was a good person to focus mine and towns attention on while we waited for Jimmy to respond to his wagon.

If I provide reasoning in my vote post and people subsequently ask for reasoning without referencing what's already there, I'm probably going to ignore them, or sarcastically link them to my initial post.

OK, I'm getting a better idea of your thought process here, then. Thank you.

But here's a slightly off-topic question; you seemed willing to vote

Shadpearl

and place a case on them in D2, but especially after his random hammer, you've pushed your attention onto

profii

, why? Is it mostly to find an associative-tell?

Hmmmm ok

UNVOTE: Taly

You can be town

Can you tell us what specifically changed your mind?

Can you tell me specifically what your view of

Almost50's

claim is?

Sigh. Yep I agree that the doc should not counterclaim, since you've essentially just admitted that your claim was fake.

Or rather, a better question, what makes you think

Almost50

fakeclaimed? Also,

Why is a counterclaim good with 11 people still alive....?

If you don't think a counterclaim is good, then why did you point out the possibility of it?

VOTE: profii

Asuka, talk to me. Wagon speed isn’t alignment indicative. How a fast a wagon grows doesn’t tell you anything about the player being wagoned. There are solid reasons out there to vote Fitz that aren’t activity in my opinion.

Why is your vote on

profii

again? I might have misread your post, but is

Fitz

a more likely person to be scum in your eyes?

While I’m here we still have nothing from HF

VOTE: HavingFitz

That’s 4/6 so L-2 I believe

I'm not following your thoughts or reads well in this game.

Why are you pushing

havingfitz

back to L-2, he hasn't responded yet? You haven't provided your own reasoning aside from

Kopherald's

, I'm guessing?

First check-in since last week (weekend + Easter).

I'm confined to phone use for the immediate future so comments will be short/limited.

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

Why? Low activity + v/la's?

I'll try to get read up today and post asap.

Can you... attempt to respond to people's pushes? Or at least give your own reads and thoughts like you said that they would? 950

So, again another push of us from Ausuka without an actual case.

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

And by the way, if trying to work with the rest of the town to look for lynches is "actively opportunistic" then I'm always fucking "actively opportunistic". That's how you fucking play mafia, you try to develop reads and lynch them, sometimes you're wrong, and that's okay. But, at least we're trying and not just saying that it's a "gut read" and "anyone can see it if they look at the stuff I saw" even though you don't bother actually building a case. That's why I said yesterday that Ausuka was scum, and that's why I still believe it, but we have a case for fitz up and out in the open, so we are pursuing that and that alone today. But, you all follow the one who hasn't actually posted any analysis the whole game.

-Brass (probably for the last time)

1)

I have never pushed a gut scumread in this game, nor have I formulated almost any gut scumread at all in this game. I even stated myself that gutreads after D2 are progressively less plausible and I've pushed that mentality.

2)

What's absurd about me asking you a question?

3)

If you have any thoughts that suggest

profii

is town, you need to address them now.

VOTE: Profii

It's fitz/profii/texcat (and I don't even know which of profii/fitz is the SK)

Have you been suspecting me this game?
Are you inferring I'm bussing? Lol....

Honestly, I agree with

Kopherald

and

Almost50's

assessment of your vote.

You put

profii

at L-2 WITHOUT any stated reasoning of your thoughts, and directly after a VC. All you've done in response is ask

"are you saying my vote is scummy?"

Either you're playing survivalistically, or this is a buss. Neither option speaks to me as pro-town.

Fitz has given us zero reasons to town read him, but I can't help but think that he'd be trying harder if he were scum.

Intent to hammer Profii.

How much time are you giving? I want more of the playerlist to post once more before a vote is concealed.

~~~~

Ok I’ll claim

I’m tracker

Looked at Jimmy N-1 and he protected Sando n1 which is nothing really but I did due to that lol hammer
The n-2 I tracked Shadpearl who went for Anen so I am guessing he is the serial killer. Again tracked the lol hammer. You’ll note I wasn’t on the lynch of jimmy during this day

I guess I had some random doubt in my mind that SK and Scum went for Anen or doc went for the wrong element but I’m confident shadpearl is probably the SK when he faked my death just then as I’ve been playing along with his interpretation that I’ve town read him so I assume he wants me alive to give him chance at survival

I am really hoping Shad doesn’t lol hammer now.

VOTE: Shadpearl

We are not having the possibility of 2 townies die in a night anymore.

[Taly]

In no world does it make sense for

profii

to lie here. In doesn't seem like the wagon on him was town-pushed much either, mostly because of

havingfitz's

quickvote.

The hammer was terrible, noobtown wouldn't have done that. Noobscum probably wouldn't have, not without support.

3p noob? I can definitely see it.

My first completed game on this site was when I was an SK, and the lol-hammer and 'wanting to look good while being somewhat cautious' is something I can understand and have seen in

Shadpearl

, specifically since the middle part of D2.

Since nothing can be tied to an SK, their posts lean towards a meta that is more understood to be town, but with very blatantly odd actions.

Shadapearl

has stated little on his stances throughout this game unless he's either been questioned or pushed, and even then, his thoughts have been little in effect.

I'm not moving my vote from Shadpearl.

Taly I’ve been lynchbaiting to avoid a scum kill. Hopefully the doctor protects me tonight but I’ll start playing properly now

Oh, I get that.

:/ I've been trying to be NK-bait myself but that almost never happens. I can now see why, I'm probably wrong about my reads.

[Taly]

tbh I'm townreading Shadpearl because I don't think scum would've hammered yesterday.

I definitely can see scum hammering though, especially one without any intent or given warning. Even more specifically, an SK.

A flip of

Shadpearl

would greatly help confirm the validity of

profii's

claim.

However, the only reality where

Shadpearl

would be rightfully tracked through targeting

Aneninen

, but not killing him, is because he's a doc and failed to use the element the scum used to kill

Aneninen

.

Which is extremely, extremely unlikely and would assume that

Almost50

fakeclaimed, which we do not have the adequate information to deduce that.

Scum probably would not claim given the possibility of being speedlynched the dayphase after for not being truthful.
Town, especially noobtown to my understanding, would probbaly not have hammered in the manner that

Shadpearl

has. He asked no questions of his own, or much thoughts beyond hammering just to hammer

Jimmy

.

[Taly]

Oh right...

Regardless of

Shadpearl's

alignment, his flip would give very valuable information. Though, I do believe he is scum or the SK.

If Shadpearl's a VT

, then that 100% proves that

profii

lied about the claim, and is thus, almost certainly scum.

In this event, looking at his wagon progression today would be very telling of who could or could not be a partner who potentially bussed, or how people have read

profii

if here were hypothetically the SK.

If Shadpearl's a Doctor

, then that would immediately disprove

Almost50's

claim, and also indicate that he's likely scum.

In this event, we have 3 dayphases of information regarding

Almost50's

interactions and how people viewed his claim, and the wagons he pushed.

If Shadpearl somehow IS, in fact, the Tracker

,

profii

is being speedlynched D4 and almost certainly flip scum. If he flips town though, I will be absolutely floored because I genuinely believe this is near-impossible in this scenario.

I'm not entertaining this scenario unless it happens.

If Shadpearl's an SK

, then

profii

is completely truthful about the claim, and

Almost50

gains validity in his own claim.

This both eliminates a killer to the town, and solidifies town within itself.

If Shadpearl's scum

, then not only is

profii

truthful and

Almost50

is more likely to be truthful, then the mixed interactions with

Shadpearl

this entire game so far could be very telling of the rest of the scumteam. Since

JaydragonKing

is confscum dead, then town can use interactions with between the two of them to help locate the final scum, and potentially the SK itself.

This eliminates a scum player, and will most likely give town an extra day before MYLO.

In no situation, does this seem unfavorable for the town in the long-run.

People can bicker and waffle for the rest of this dayphase, but if there's anyway the town can be united in one form for once in this game, it is to vote with

profii

, and greatly push to help gamesolve.

~~~~
P-Edit

Shit, sorry

texcat

, I messed up with the quoting there, the question was from me.

[Taly]

I'm starting to feel a little frustrated here. :/ Mostly with myself... I don't feel like I've been working well with likely-town entities in this game.

~~~

But I have read

Sando's

posts and response to my analysis, and I'm seeing his viewpoint. It makes a lot of sense the more I think about it.

It makes no sense for scum and SK to NOT go after claims overnight. If

Shadpearl

is lynched regardless of alignment, that gives an anti-town party leverage to conceal an NK on someone not within the

Shadpearl-profii

tracker-guilty claim pool.

Either way, town would get information based on a flip. But in the scenario of

Shadpearl

being lynched now, scum and/or SK is getting information for an NK target prior to town resolving their reads and the validity of claims.

Plus, if

Shadpearl

is kept alive, we run a higher risk of a crosskill occurring, which ultimately serves town based on numbers.

UNVOTE:

Let's make the scum waffle instead of the townies for once in this game.

Sando

, to clarify; I didn't 100% assume

Shadpearl

was the SK. I entertained other possibilities. I think, based on

profii's

claim, and my own personal observation, SK-

Shadpearl

was, and to a degree still is, the most likely reality to me in regards to his alignment.

I have few doubts about

profii's

claim. Mostly because he's put a death mark on himself regardless of alignment, and his claim is buying him time at best.

Also, can you explain the case on

Ausuka

please? Is it mostly on an associative with

texcat

and/or

havingfitz

?

[Taly]

Ugh....

I. Hate. Self. Votes.

[Taly]

Shadpearl

, unvote, or I'm taking the self-vote as a scum-motivated one.

If you're town, in no world is it

most beneficial

for you to be mislynched, even with information. So I don't know why the hell you're entertaining flip possibilities over yourself unless you're purposely generating discussion to make people waffle.

I also need you to elaborate on

profii's

claim in your eyes???

Furthermore, I don't understand why scum or the SK would do random kills at night? Town still has 2 PRs,

(both claimed without any CC's)

and a potential lynchpool some people aren't willing to touch.

Sando

, I don't know if you missed this... but can you elaborate on

Ausuka

being scum?

Someone looking at a claim and thinking to lynch a guilty as the first option does not sound far-fetched as town to me. Plus, over some thought last night, I still don't feel good about

havingfitz

or

texcat

either.

[Taly]

wtf guys, I'm still typing a post during all this voting, express intent

[Taly]

We have a guilty from a claimed and not cc'd tracker. I agree with Ausuka. It looks to me like we have a caught scum. I don't understand why we'd want to mislynch.

All of this wifom and trying to keep scum guessing is nonsense. Scum already knows what's going on and is probably laughing their asses off. And they are never going to resolve this for us. Why would they? Even if the tracker keeps tracking and finding guilties, we probably won't lynch them.

Nobody is saying, or wanting a mislynch.

And you can't say that scum knows what's happening when there are 2 different anti-town factions in play here.

What makes you so quickly to flip and vote

profii

? A few posts ago, you treated it like any other lynch besides

Shadpearl

was ignoring scum.

I still don't feel good about havingfitz or texcat either

Would you mind summarizing? If not I'll ISO you when I can.

PLEASE ISO ME. ISO ANYONE.

I haven't seen really much in depth thoughts of your reads in this game.

Also, you voted

Profii

in 1097 without much reasoning. You unvoted because of the claim, but you haven't stated your thoughts on the results or on

Shadpearl

, and a lot of your posts consist of responding to other people with little reasoning.

Just an FYI because I see how long ago we last posted. Today is my neice's first birthday, so I'm probably not around until like tomorrow evening, but I also hate being prodded, so I am posting a few thoughts now.

Shad is likely a scum, but we have at least two other scum out there. No reason to turbo lynch a guilty right now, we have a good amount of time until the deadline. This discussion is, at the very least getting more content out there to analyze.

Shadpearl, if you are town, get your vote off of yourself. Self-voting is a dumb move as town.

I still don't feel good about havingfitz or texcat either

Would you mind summarizing? If not I'll ISO you when I can.

This is also hilarious to me. Two other people have made comprehensive posts about fitz looking like scum, and seemingly, he wants to ignore those two acting like he'll respond to this one.

-Brass

How do you feel about

Ausuka

and

texcat

?

So, here\s what I think happened:

profii is MAFIA who was being run up to the lynch. He thought his was going to get lynched anyway, so he wanted to draw the Tracker out to CC him for his buddy to kill. The Tracker can get a guilty. The Doctor cannot even protect a target 100%. So he went for it without a thorough revision on his own play/stated opinions, and almost got away with it.

I'm looking at Ausuka in particular now. Her actions around this are pretty weird. I'd track her tonight and lynch her tomorrow regardless UNLESS 2 kills happen AND the Tracker comes out to say she didn't visit one of them.

I'll reiterate so as not to be misunderstood by those who skim for the jest of it all:

IF, and ONLY if, we have 2 NKs, and Ausuka didn't visit either of them should the Tracker claim.

If they see her visiting a NK, OR if she goes nowhere but we only have 1 NK, then she gets lynched without the need for the Tracker to claim.

I'm also still sus of texcatm but I now think fitz could be town here.

My problem with this, is that there's no certainty behind

profii

lying about the claim at the moment.

I'm getting annoyed with the playerlists' insistence on lynching claims. Damn, like, people are actively breaking down any form of general-townreads someone can even temporarily acquire at this point.

I want to see

profii's

reply before I rethink my stance... again.

P-Edit: Before I posted this, profii made a post, and I'm going to evaluate that separately.

Meh, if I was mafia with profii I probably wouldn't have changed my mind there. I don't mind being tracked though so whatever.

Other than yourself(?), do you think there's any other useful candidate in tracking?

UNVOTE:
Actually yeah shadpearl is right. Profii's claim doesn't really align with logic. Still think the tracker should just CC though so we don't risk a mislynch- tracker is a pretty bad PR. Last doc can be on tracker anyway which gives them a chance of survival. Maybe we should just lynch profii anyway, idk. Still not lynching outside those two though.

Explain how a dichotomy is good right now...

Ok I’ll claim

I’m tracker

Looked at Jimmy N-1 and he protected Sando n1 which is nothing really but I did due to that lol hammer
The n-2 I tracked Shadpearl who went for Anen so I am guessing he is the serial killer. Again tracked the lol hammer. You’ll note I wasn’t on the lynch of jimmy during this day

I guess I had some random doubt in my mind that SK and Scum went for Anen or doc went for the wrong element but I’m confident shadpearl is probably the SK when he faked my death just then as I’ve been playing along with his interpretation that I’ve town read him so I assume he wants me alive to give him chance at survival

I am really hoping Shad doesn’t lol hammer now.

What the actual frick is this, Mr. Tracker? If you tracked Jimmy NIGHT 1 and KNEW he was a Doctor on Day 2 WHY would you throw suspicion on him? WHY would you go anywhere near that wagon?! Just assuming you weren't lying for the sake of this argument how can you possibly defend this?!

Trackers don't learn the action that was used on the person, just the target.

So in the world of

Tracker-profii

, when there were 3 other docs still alive before N1's conclusion, had little way of deducing whether or not

Jimmy's

target was a protect or kill, until after a flip on him.

I also don't think

profii

tracking you absolves you from the shit-hammer that was 1000. I can see both a reality where

scum-profii

would fake-guilty you, and

town-profii

tracking you becuase of the content on your posts.

I’m pretty much vote parked and as I mentioned earlier, want my conf town status please

So... Is the main reason behind your claim to try and conf-town you? Why didn't you start the day claiming and voting

Shadpearl

?

[Taly]

I think lynching in {Shadpearl, profii} is definitely optimal because there is definitely at least 1 scum in {Shadpearl, profii}- if one of them is SK mafia don't want to resolve it, and if one is mafia the SK probably likes the distraction and won't resolve it either. Tracker isn't a strong PR and if we have 50% chance of lynching scum (speaking mathematically, but due to profii's play around his results the probability is actually a lot higher than that.) We, as a town, need to be resolving issues rather than hoping the mafia does it for us. And I think we can do that by lynching profii today and probably seeing a scumflip.

Hmmm.... I agree with this. There's no true way of knowing a likely NK target, and the more I think about it, I'm not going to find resolution in a good portion of my reads until I see a flip between

profii

or

Shadpearl

.

I'm afraid of lynching another claim. :/ Town is effectively nothing but VTs and a weakened-doc if we're wrong, and

profii

is truthful. Even though it's becoming more likely that profii fakeclaimed, I can't help but waffle there.

My approach to this game is not just about communicating with everyone; but I'm consistently either confident/adequately-reasoned in my reads, or I am very uncertain.

I usually get mislynched or survive to MYLO, where I typically get into another 1v1 then.

@Taly the very last bit

I didn’t want to reveal I was L-1 - I assume I was intent or I wouldn’t have bothered but I can’t remember
I wouldn’t have claimed and wouldn’t want conf town status otherwise - if I’m conf town, I’m more likely to die via Nk

I think doc!shad is low probability and we should kill him which as a by product conf towns me but the priority is the optimal lynch today

1)

Still, why did you push

havingfitz

and I? You didn't even push off the notion that

Shadpearl

had a mild-level case placed on him. What did you hope to gain from that?

2)

The fact that yuo waited until L-1, want to say that lynching

Shadpearl

is going to conftown you, and not really pushing a Shadpearl lynch until I initiated the vote; makes this claim a bit less believable in my eyes.

3)

Plus, what made you question

Jimmy

possibly being scum after

Sando

not dying?

Meh, if I was mafia with profii I probably wouldn't have changed my mind there. I don't mind being tracked though so whatever.

Other than yourself(?), do you think there's any other useful candidate in tracking?

Well yeah, almost everyone is a useful track at this point (apart from Shadpearl lol) assuming profii flips scum. The situation is pretty much the same, whoever you track. Leashing the Tracker is obviously a bad move because Mafia could just send their other member to do the kill; it only clears someone from being SK, which is pretty weak considering 2/3 scum are mafia.

I'm feeling more solid in my

Ausuka

-townread again.

There were 2 kills on N1. If Profii tracked Jimmy to Sando on N1, as claimed, Jimmy would be confirmed as a doc. Jimmy has a PR(he visited Sando). Jimmy does not have a killing role(Sando did not die and two others did).

Oh, I overlooked that.

So by

profii's

own results, he

should've

deduced that

Jimmy

was a doc since, if he truly tracked

Jimmy

and he targeted

Sando, Sando

would've been 1 of the 2 people killed...

Profii

knowing this much, should've stated something to derail

Jimmy's

lynch....

...The only reason I can think of

profii

to fakeclaim the targets, was that he knew that

Jimmy

had already flipped doc, and realized that that would give him leverage.

Cultivating the same logic to be used on

Shadpearl

,

profii

knew that

Almost50

had claimed and would be the last doc...

...So this is sounding much more like a set-up

Shadpearl

lynch, but profii didn't vote, push, or call-out

Shadpearl

. He wants his claim to immediately conftown him, but he's ignoring other potential realities while trying to make sense of his inconsistencies to other people.

~~~

Come to think of it,

Profii

only voted and pushed me when I brought up, yet again, the potential of him being scum. 1049
He only voted for

havingfitz

because it was mostly just to sheep

Kopherald

- 1042

He even placed a dichotomy against

havingfitz

and I in 1050... Which is weird, because his posts this dayphase have seemed to try and create WIFOM or divides, but he's not playing in accordance to the knowledge he claims to have.

I'm seeing how

profii

can very likely be scum now.

Intent to hammer in about 2 hours unless multiple people would rather continue discussion for the day.

[Taly]

Scum and SK likely at havingfitz, Taly and Lil Uzi Vert.

I'm still waiting for you to expand on that D1 gut-scumread you had.

Didn't actually revote in my last post. -_-'

VOTE: Profii

Is that L-1 then? Wow. Unexpected.

@Taly Oh. Is the tracker not just another name for the cop? ( '._.) The games I've played in the "Cop" role sent a PM to the Mod with a player name and the Mod sent back their role. I guess that's not how you play here though.

@Texcat Yeah! Er, exactly! T-totally... Meant it that way.. *lies*
But that does make perfect sense so I'm glad my point still stands, lmao x)

No, there are different flavors of a cop-like utility.

Normal cops

get "guilties" by trying to check someone's alignment, and see that they're not town.

Role cops

are cops that learn about a player's abilities.

Trackers

target a player to see who they targeted. It can act like a guilty, depending on the information known in the game.

Heh whatever

I can't tell if you're truly apathetic or just attempting to breed it.

[Taly]

Oh, I overlooked that.

So by profii's own results, he should've deduced that Jimmy was a doc since, if he truly tracked Jimmy and he targeted Sando, Sando would've been 1 of the 2 people killed... Profii knowing this much, should've stated something to derail Jimmy's lynch....

C'mon Taly, keep up

I've been a mess this dayphase. X_X

Grade A mess.

@Mod: Replace me. Recent developments in my life have dropped my interest in mafia to 0.

3: Aw, well good luck.

*hugs*

~~~

It's been 4 hours, and I expected

profii

or someone other than earlier to have posted by now.

I don't think the gamestate's going to change much at this point, and I don't know if there's any value in getting more information from

profii

via questionnaire more so than a flip at this point. I've looked through his ISO and it doesn't make sense for him to be the tracker with his posts. His mentality towards the game does not strike me as town either, which my opinions here was outlined in posts: 867 - 900 - 903 - 1051 and 1052 - 1057

Bottom line; a flip on

profii

either way is going to help town resolve a lot of reads, and there's too many inconsistencies I'm seeing with

profii

than to think it's just town.

VOTE: profii

If this is actually the tracker and that half of the town, including myself, is wrong; then sorry.

[Taly]

I believe that is the hammer.

[Taly]

:/

[Taly]

Guess we're down to 1 weakened-PR.

Time to look at dead people's reads; + = scumpoints based

Scum and SK likely at havingfitz, Taly and Lil Uzi Vert.

I'm not believing Taly or LUV for scum or Fitzy for SK. Profii flip now says a lot, I think LUV and Kopherald have largely fencesat, LUV more than Kopherald, and now Aus/Tex are throwing me off since unless Shad is SK they've definitely voted their buddy in a 1v1 at some point.

An SK looking at my plan from the outside was the only person who would look at possibilities instead of "this is scary", and that was Kopherald imo.

Still a better plan though.

havingfitz for last scum and LUV for likely SK?

+havingfitz-antitown

for

Creature's

death

+Luv-antitown

for

Creature's

death

But there was no crosskill N3, so 1 of these two are almost certainly town.

havingfitz for last scum and LUV for likely SK?

I'd say Fitzy/Kopherald as likely scumbuddy for Profii.
LUV/Kopherald/Creature as likely SK on Profii-scumflip.

I don't think Kopherald is independantly scummier or SKier (it's a word now), but he appears in both my lists, so I'd probs go him if Profii scumflips.

+havingfitz-antitown

for

Sando's

death

++Kopherald-antitown

for

Sando's

death; very likely due to him being associated with

profii

and by extension

JaydragonKing

, while being noted as a possible SK.

+LUV-antitown

for

Sando's

death

+Creature-antitown

for... what? He died, and is town.

havingfitz for last scum and LUV for likely SK?

Oh wait, you think that if Profii is scum, Fitz would've put him to L-2 today? I knew there was a reason I didn't believe the Fitz+Profii scumteam, that was why. Thoughts?

Sando

doesn't see the validity in

Havingfitz+Profii

as scum, he dies.

And now referencing

Aneninen's

reads;

(Alive) Taly

,

(now) Profii

, (Alive) HavingFitz,

JimmyUrquanwhatzit

may be scum.

Where's Creature?
The LilUzi slot is confusing with all those replacements.

This was

Aneninen's

last post.

+havingfitz

for staying alive, and a candidate for crosskill on

Aneninen;

likely with

profii-scum,

implying they are SK.

+Taly

for staying alive, and a candidate for crosskill on

Aneninen;

likely with

profii-scum

, implying they are SK.

Assessment

Sando

, flipped town, townreads

Luv and Taly

, after thinking of a possibility where

Luv

is SK.

Sando

states that he will go after

Kopherald

based on a

profii-scumflip

, and doesn't believe a

profii+havingfitz

scumteam.

Creature

states

Taly and Luv

as potential SK pool with

havingfitz

.

Aneninen

; scumreads

Taly and havingfitz

, it is known that

profii

is scum but by

Sando's

thoughts; not likely with

havingfitz

.

Kopherald

was noted to be

Sando's

specific target prior to his death.

Verdict - Most Likely Scenario

Night 1

(Implying) JaydragonKing or profii or Kopherald

kills

Lalendra

.

(Implying) Havingfitz-SK

kills

JaydragonKing

.

Night 2

Profii

and

havingfitz

crosskill

Aneninen

.

Night 3

Kopherald (Scum)

kills

Sando

.

Havingfitz (SK)

kills

Creature

.

Designated Mislynch Targets Based On NKed: Taly and Luv

This is the most likely reality,

Kopherald

is more likely buddied with

JaydragonKing

and

profii

, and so I'm slightly closer to 100% certainty of scum here as opposed to

havingfitz-SK

.

Lynch

Kopherald

, and probably

havingfitz

D5; I think this is a town win.

VOTE: Kopherald

[Taly]

Spoiler: Vote Count Analysis Over Lynches

Official Vote Count 1.FINAL

Flavor Leaf (8)

- Kopherald, Almost50, texcat,

JaydragonKing

, Mathdino,

profii

,

Aneninen

,

Lalendra

,

JimmyUrineMoneyShot

(LYNCH)

Potential 3rd Scum on Flavor Lynch-

{Kopherald, Almost50, Mathdino, texcat}

Why Almost50 Probably Isn't Scum Here

; claimed doc, specifically before

Flavor

.

Why Mathdino Probably Isn't Scum Here

;

he, doomfeathers, and Luv

have been consistently placed in might-be scum territory with little contest.

Texcat

is probably town based on other, more confident reads.

Why Kopherald Could Be Scum

; voteparked on

Flavor's

slot since 158, but votes again... 627, even though he never unvoted.

Official Vote Count 2.4

JimmyUrineMoneyShot

(7) - havingfitz, Texcat,

Aneninen

, Ausuka, Almost50, Kopherald, Shadpearl [LYNCH]

Potential Scum on

Jimmy

Lynch- {

havingfitz (?)

,

texcat (?), Ausuka (?), Almost50 (?),

Kopherald (?)

,

Shadpearl (?)

}

Based on 6 people mislynching here; but there's only 2 non-townies left, this is a town-esque wagon.

I will say, my SK-guess and final-scum guess are both on this wagon, and so the other 4 are town in that reality.

Official Vote Count 3.5

profii (6)

- Almost50, Ausuka, texcat,

Creature

, Shadpearl,

Taly

[LYNCH]

Neither my scumreads;

havingfitz

or

Kopherald

are in here.

Almost50, Ausuka, texcat

have been on both scum and town lynches; actually makes me feel that they're town, because it wouldn't make sense to me for them to bus or resist a wagon to help provide discussion/information, and tells me they're a likely townbloc.

Shadpearl

is probably town as well, based on more confident reads.

*Notes*

Scum probably would not want to bus their last partner, and SK is less likely to vote here based on being incriminated over lynching a PR claim.

Kopherald

is most likely scum here

Havingfitz

is most likely SK here, and didn't vote

Flavor Leaf

.

[Taly]

Reasons On Taly's Individual Reads D4

The Remaining Townies

Ausuka

- Have consistently asked questions and have explained their reasons on the best approaches for town. Very centered on game solving and does not flow with the wind necessarily, because their reads are consistent and aren't fabricated. Townhunts and scumhunts.

Shadpearl

- ...Seriously cannot see how

Shadpearl-scum

is possible with

profii

. I sincerely doubt

Shadpearl

killed

JaydragonKing

,

Aneninen

, and

Creature

.... His response to

profii's

now confirmed-fakeclaim feels towny to me.

Almost50

- Doctors are weak in this setup, specifically upon lynching scum because scum have more elements to use.

Almost50

doesn't need to be NKed... The fact that

Almost50

is alive right now, tells me he's truly the final doctor. Even myself, alongside a portion of the playerlist, have expressed concern around

Almost50's

claim and its validity... I feel like he's alive to keep town guessing and create WIFOM/waffling.

Something_Smart

-

See NKed-Players Read Analysis.

texcat

-

See Vote Count Analysis.

Likely SK

havingfitz

...Aside from the Vote-Count Analysis and NKed-Players Read Analysis.

1)

*Reads D1 and D2*

Who?

2)

What are his reads?

3)

1097 - lol yay an unexplained vote to L-2.

Kind of townvibes because seems to be accurate with reads; but seems to be the most sensible option for committing the NKs and voting the way he has.

Scum

Kopherald

...Aside from the Vote-Count Analysis and NKed-Players Read Analysis.

1)

Literally did not change vote on D1 from

TheGoldenParadox

, even after

Flavor's

claim.

2)

Consistently states that

Ausuka

has no reasons for reads... but she's the most well-understood people in this game to me.

3)

Most likely to have bussed

profii

at some point, specifically because of his long, weakly explained read on

havingfitz

.

4)

Profii

sheeped

Kopherald

for... what reason?

5)

59 and 60, lol odd

Havingfitz and Kopherald

can both be not-town while trying to search for the SK/scum by versus-ing against each other

Probably can find more reasons for my thoughts here; but I genuinely believe that this game is solved unless one of these 2 flip town, and it's proven that I just suck at mafia.

[Taly]

I am going to reply to

texcat and something_smart

with my replies/in-depth analysis later. But I need to go right now.

I'd prefer a hammer does not happen until I post again. Be back in a few hours.

[Taly]

Really? I'm a bit skeptical of that kind of NKA, since there were town PR's alive when those kills were made.

The only known claims in this game are:

Almost50

- First person to claim doc, D1, still alive.

Flavor Leaf

- Claimed/Is Doc; lynched D1.

profii

- Fakeclaimed Tracker; lynched D3.

So there's not a lot of strong evidence to suggest scum/SK kills were motivated based on PRs.

However,

scum (Kopherald)

was present on

Jimmy

and

Flavor's

lynches; the lynch-flipped docs, despite

Flavor'

s claim.

Spoiler: My Subjective Reasoning On The Analysis - STILL READ THIS

Scum would desire to lynch most claims; they can't confirm if it's truthful unless one of them fakeclaim.

Kopherald

has shown little consideration or discussion beyond the borderline-tunnel on

havingfitz

, the sketchy potential-buss on

profii

, and the discredit/misrep of

Ausuka

... the only claim here was a fakeclaim from

profii

.

Since it's understood that

Kopherald

is most likely the last buddy of

JaydragonKing and profii

;

Kopherald

likely positioned himself to lynch

profii

but went on just about every other opportunity to lynch outside of him.

...Because he'd know his buddy fakeclaimed.

Havingfitz (SK guess)

, lynched

Jimmy

D2 - who didn't claim doc, but flipped as one.

Spoiler: My Subjective Reasoning On The Analysis - STILL READ THIS

There's a lot of differing opinions on how SKs should play; but above everything, SKs should eliminate scum-threats for as long as possible, because this gives them a strong town argument, and also fulfills their wincon late-game.

Havingfitz's

longterm 1v1 with

Kopherald

fulfills this.

SK should townside, as noted - ironically - by

Creature

; it's possible a

Creature-kill

was motivated in distancing himself, or to kill-off

Creature

since he believed he might be the last scumbuddy.

((

Creature

was suspected throughout D3))

And since

JaydragonKing

was blatantly antitown in D1; killing him was a decent option to

havingfitz

. These two never really interacted; and made the NK seem unlikely to happen by

havingfitz

.

Another thing an SK thinks about instead of a normal scumteam; is that they're isolated scum. They can't use buddies, plans, or votes and wagons to help control discussion as scum do. Furthermore, PRs are useful to SKs because that gives them information to potentially lynch scum and people aside from themselves.

My view is;

SK-havingfitz

had more reasons to take out people scumreading him,

Creature and Aneninen

, above killing

scum (JaydragonKing)

after a

scumflip like (Profii)

.

So by N2; the necessity of scum/SK killing a PR is low compared to the reality where we didn't lynch PRs.
But-
Scum killing a PR who has also scumread them is not out of the realm of possibility either, the same means for a Vanilla Townie.

~~~

But even with this; there's

STILL

an argument for a

Lalendra-Sando

scum-kill based on a PR read, too.

Spoiler: Lalendra Possibly NKed Because of PR

Lalendra

- Aside from a failed mislynch target, voted by

profii

. 221 - I want to point you guys to

profii's

opening quotes D2:

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Given we know which team made each NK, are you confident that scum killed Lal to create a mislynch and that she didn't just give off doc vibes.

I've not read Lal's ISO to see if there is some kind of crumb, but I think scum would get really lucky to be in a position to pick a PR target that also creates a mis-lynch, I'd expect them to have to go for 1 agenda or the other (assuming there was a crumb they picked up on ofc)

So the fact you think you've been setup quite early in the game-day, means yours will be the first ISO I review once I get a bit of time, consider this FOS for now.

I ISOed

Lalendra

, and replied with:

Guess I'm this dayphase's mislynch target

Given we know which team made each NK, are you confident that scum killed Lal to create a mislynch and that she didn't just give off doc vibes.

I've not read Lal's ISO to see if there is some kind of crumb, but I think scum would get really lucky to be in a position to pick a PR target that also creates a mis-lynch, I'd expect them to have to go for 1 agenda or the other (assuming there was a crumb they picked up on ofc)

So the fact you think you've been setup quite early in the game-day, means yours will be the first ISO I review once I get a bit of time, consider this FOS for now.

Lalendra

never gave a crumb IMO. If she did, it was extremely subtle. Something tells me that

Flavor Leaf

townreading her; alongside much of the other town, myself included, was what lead to her NK.

She was also probably mislynch bait D1, and it's possible scum thought she'd be easy to go after. Though, when that didn't happen, she was killed off.

Please, ISO me. I WANT people to engage with me.

I still stand by this;

Lalendra

didn't claim or crumb anything.

But

profii

, reiterating that

Lalendra

was a scumteam-kill; stated that she was lynchbait, and he thought she must've crumbed about her role.

Since

profii

was scumflip, and conducted the kill on

Lalendra

; it was probably to distance from

Lalendra

. It's also possible

Lalendra

was killed because

profii+buddies

thought she'd be a PR.

774 strengthens this line of thought.

Spoiler: Sando Possibly NKed Because of PR

Sando

I can spend another 45 minutes elaborating how scum could've easily perceived

Sando

as the true Tracker; given that

profii

was a known fakeclaim to them.

But I'm just going to point to these posts, and say that

Sando

had his own plan on how town should act; given he is truly town as Tracker, he probably had potential guilties, most likely on

profii

, due to his certainty of lynching scum here, but not wanting to go that route just yet.

Read through: 1136 - 1178, 1179 and 1180 - 1186 - 1188 - 1198 - 1256 - 1272

He probably wanted to guess a scumlynch D3 to confirm his hypothesis and potential guilties he already acquired. Mixed in with his reads on

Kopherald

and associative to

profii

, makes him a strong valid NK candidate in this manner.

No, I don't think you guys get it. Shadpearl has to be scum. There is no tracker CC.

Just...wow...

If the tracker thinks they're more important than a correct lynch, which they are most certainly not, that's on them. I'm not ever moving my vote unless a CC happens.

It's not about importance, it's about playing the hand that's dealt us in the best manner possible. I've literally laid out the entire plan and basically directed the SK kill, along with laid out what scum is likely to do. You're playing an open hand and you're refusing to engage. You're either incredibly lazy and shouldn't be playing, or you're scum/SK looking at the plan and worried about it.

VOTE: Ausuka

Same reasons as laid out with Texcat/Ausuka, but playing against town her without justification deserves the flip imo.

Yeah so we could rely on scum playing how they're expected to and get scum tomorrow while we probably mislynch today, or we could get scum today and potentially reduce the amount of nightkills we have to deal with tonight. Just lynching the guilty and then going back to a regularly scheduled program of scumhunting is the best play here IMO. No need to play games with the SK.

It's funny that you can't actually articulate why I'm wrong, just gonna go with "nah, CC or I'm parked here"

From the perspective of a tracker; I can completely understand

Sando's

initial dislike for a counterclaim, and can see how

Sando-town

would suspect

Ausuka

.

He knew

profii

fakeclaimed and was almost certainly scum, but he wanted to find his buddy.

Sando's

suspicion of

Ausuka

potentially baiting a CC seems to have been a good point for

scum-Kopherald

to kill

Sando

and WIFOM the playerlist about the townies suspicions.

I think

Ausuka

was an easy towny to misunderstand and suspect in this circumstance.

If this is true and

Kopherald

is the last scum; then

Sando's

scumread on him before his NK was not the sole purpose of killing him.

Kopherald

would've known about

profii's

fakeclaim, and would've believed

Sando's

reaction would likely be from the true Tracker.

Aneninen

- There's no argument here, but

Aneninen

was correct about

profii

, and most likely

havingfitz

as well. Furthermore, I haven't seen a post to suggest that

Aneninen

WASN'T killed off the pretense of being a PR-read to scum, but he seems to be a practical kill for SK and scum.

[Taly]

I agree. And without checking in detail, I'm not sure how accurate it is. For example, Sando's vote was on Ausuka yesterday, and I know he expressed suspicion of me, but Taly doesn't mention that.

I'm talking about the final reads given by

Creature

,

Aneninen

, and

Sando

; the main perspective scum/SK would have on their mental state going into the next day.

Sando

, from what I've understood, appeared to waffle on his read on you, and

Ausuka

based on this quote:

Scum and SK likely at havingfitz, Taly and Lil Uzi Vert.

I'm not believing Taly or LUV for scum or Fitzy for SK. Profii flip now says a lot, I think LUV and Kopherald have largely fencesat, LUV more than Kopherald, and

now Aus/Tex are throwing me off since unless Shad is SK they've definitely voted their buddy in a 1v1 at some point.

An SK looking at my plan from the outside was the only person who would look at possibilities instead of "this is scary", and that was Kopherald imo.

Still a better plan though.

Part of

Sando's

suspicion of

Texcat/Ausuka

, was an associative.

But with

profii-scumflip

; this is proven impossible.

So quite naturally,

Sando

is killed;

1)

Because he's no longer a viable piece to push a mislynch on

Ausuka/Texcat

.

2)

He can longer defend his townreads on

Taly/Luv

.

3)

Sando

, to scum, is definitively going after

Kopherald

and maybe

havingfitz

next.

4)

Shadpearl and Almost50

are leftover pieces, possibly because they've been shaded a lot in this game, but they're more likely town in the eyes of the scumteam... or at, an SK probability.

((But I don't believe it))

Literally, above

Sando's

game-strategy and reads; his death could've also been to serve in creating WIFOM on most of the townies.

It makes so much sense that

Sando

was NKed and flipped Tracker, and

Kopherald

is the top person to have done this.

[Taly]

VOTE: Kopherald

I like Taly's analysis

This is L-2 now

[Taly]

I agree with your conclusions about who the last two bad guys are, but your arguments have a very winey smell to me.

I'm town reading Ausuka, A50, and ShadPearl.
Probably town: Taly and Something (though who knows about this slot that's been replaced so many times!)
That leaves Fitz and KopHerald for scum.

VOTE: Fitz
voting here for the time being. I'd still like to hear from KopH.

I don't understand that you agree with my conclusions but don't support the arguments...? Is that what you're saying?

Please explain.

I'm not compromising on a

havingfitz

lynch unless he's at least pushed to L-2.

I feel

Kopherald

is a better lynch because:

1)

There's more evidence and discussion that support him as the final scum, associated with

JaydragonKing

and

profii

.

2)

There's debatably more reasons behind him being scum in general, as opposed to

havingfitz

.

3)

Hitting a higher-likely scum-person is best in this scenario; because we cannot afford to have 2 NKs again.

4)

We also cannot afford mislynching right now, otherwise town will likely lose. I feel like my reasons for

Kopherald-scum

hold a greater accuracy than

havingfitz-SK

.

In general, while I think both are extremely, extremely likely the final 2 scum;

Kopherald

is like, 99% the last on the scum team in terms of my certainty.

Havingfitz

is about 90% the SK in terms of my certainty.

I fear that the longer this dayphase last, the more it will hurt town.

[Taly]

I literally cannot understand a single thing Taly wrote. x_x To that end I'm abstaining from voting until Monday evening when I can really sit down and play archeologist.

:/

Kopherald

makes the most sense to me as the final scum, and

havingfitz

is my best guess for the SK. I have a decently confident feeling that everyone else is town, and I feel a

Kopherald

lynch is the best route for today.

If you don't understand something, then I'm free to answer questions.

[Taly]

Is this dayphase going to be:

"People stare while

Taly

Makes Up Half The Day's Content And Post Count"

?

[Taly]

Taly, Don't you imagine that scum might have killed Sando because it would make KopHerald look guilty? That's the problem I have with your argument. I don't think that scum kill those who will make them look guilty. They'd rather make someone else look guilty.

It's possible, yes.

But with all the other information I've gathered, and what I expect to be the most likely scenario; I highly doubt it.

The thing is, if

Kopherald

didn't kill

Sando

, then who did? ...I'd like to hear an answer on this, even if you don't know who, because I really don't know who else could be the final scum at this point... I don't think this bulk of information via analysis generates solely through strategy on pinning a death onto someone.

Another thing is,

Kopherald

killing

Sando

is only a

FRACTION

of my argument onto

Kopherald

being the final scum. I'll gladly go above and beyond and make an interactions list with

Kopherald

, and go in depth with his personal gameplay here and expand on other points I've stated on my read over him.

Furthermore, I'm not entertaining that reality too much right now because that's literally just going to serve to waffle the town and create a divide. Plus, I sincerely feel; based off multiple means of analysis, and personal gut instinct, that I'm correct here.

So there's not a lot of strong evidence to suggest scum/SK kills were motivated based on PRs.

I think there's pretty compelling evidence in the fact that (a) scumteams in general have a motivation to kill PR's and (b) the scum succeeded in killing several PR's.

I'm just suggesting my subjective ideas here; the arguments that have led to my conclusions make sense to me.

Hitting a higher-likely scum-person is best in this scenario; because we cannot afford to have 2 NKs again.
4) We also cannot afford mislynching right now, otherwise town will likely lose.

I disagree with your math here. If we mislynch then lynch correctly, then it goes to 3p LYLO. If we lynch correctly then mislynch, it goes to 4p MYLO, which isn't better.

I fear that the longer this dayphase last, the more it will hurt town.

wat

My thinking here is;

If

Kopherald

flips as the final scum today, that grants validity to my thought process... so in my mind,

Kopherald-scumflip

now, will more likely verify a

havingfitz-SK

flip to me.

Keyword: More likely

I'm not willing to factor in mislynching right now; I'm simply voting to lynch who I think is most likely scum, and that's

Kopherald

.

Also, at this point in the game, we're not in MYLO, but we have a critical amount of information at our disposal to help us deduce people's alignments. We should use this time to confirm our current ideas instead of debating all the alternatives and finding reasons to seek fallacies in another person's argument.

Because I get that town wants to do that all the time; looking at every little pin needle, but that's not practical here.

Because that makes the narrative-script of town that much easier for scum to control, especialy when there are several townies who are decently confident in their reads as it is.

{Ausuka, Almost50, Shadpearl, Taly}- very much doubt there are scum in here
{texcat, Something_Smart}- maybe, but probably not
{havingfitz, Kopherald}- should be the lynchpool, in my opinion.

To expand on what I've stated to

Something_Smart

and

texcat.

..

If at least half of us in the game, or even more than half think that scum is definitively within

{Kopherald, havingfitz}

Where are the votes? Why would one person be more likely scum than the other?

^^^ These two questions need to be answered, and that's a stronger gamesolving standpoint than saying:

"I like

Taly's

analysis"
"But

Taly

, this one thing in your argument doesn't add up"

I appreciate the feedback; and honestly, you guys' responses have kind of helped me solidify my townread on you five:

{texcat, Something_Smart, Ausuka, Shadpearl, Almost50}

But I want the 2 questions above answered above everything.

[Taly]

We have not yet heard from either Fitz or KopH. I'd like to hear from them today before making a final decision on my vote.

Brass

has posted outside of hydra on the site; so it's likely he's read up to yesterday on this thread. I don't know about

Kop

.

Havingfitz

was onsite April 13th last I checked, so he may or may not have known the day has changed.

In either case, neither person has posted in the game yet.

1 more day is about the maximum I'm willing to wait for them.

@Taly; if you're asking who I think is SK and who is mafia, it doesn't really matter at this point; they're basically equivalent. Kopherald slot has been scummy IMO and fitz has been a massive lurksack, plus I get townvibes from the other players. My vote's on Kopherald, and right now, it looks like that's where I'm going to keep it until the day ends.

Do you have any thoughts on

Kopherald-scum

and other people as town aside from the reasons I've listed?

[Taly]

I've spoke with Brass a little bit over the past few days whilst we were waiting for day to come round. And we both said what was going to happen, and that it has happened. Scum have clearly seen there was suspicion aimed at us before the previous day ended, and have directed there kills to further strengthen that suspicion pointing to us.

We have also discussed a little bit, and both agreed scum is within Fitz/Ausuka and a outside chance of Texcat.

- Kop

I don't get your line of thinking here.

You state that the kills were to paint you as scum - which consisted of a portion of my argument around you being scum; but you say scum is within

Fitz/Ausuka

, and potentially

texcat

with no explanation from either head.

If you think I am even for a minute town; do you have

anything

to say about my posts about you, or what you think I

should

be paying attention to?

Plus the

texcat-possible-scum

suggestion seems like it came out of nowhere.

People keep talking about Tracker hunting when Sando claimed Tracker last day phase. Or am I imagining it?

I also would lynch texcat in a heartbeat, but I don't see many people willing to and I'm not going to push anything in this game after what happened in D1.

Can someone explain to me what is so scummy about

texcat

? I can kind of see why people might suspect her; but there's already 2 other people filling up the scumteam and SK slot to me, and

Kopherald's

response has not changed that.

Also,

Almost50

, can you elaborate on what about my analysis you like? Do you have any independent thoughts on

Kopherald-scum

and/or

havingfitz-SK

?

Another thing is;

Sando

didn't directly claim Tracker, he kept questioning the possibility to us. In hindsight, that makes sense he would be a Tracker; and another obvious reason as to why he was NKed, but still.

I feel like I've picked the information about the NK's and VC's like a lemon, squeezed out all the juices, and am now serving it to the playerlist with a message engraved in the plate labeled:

"Ask. Respond. Vote."

[Taly]

Ain't no sugar comin' out 'till scum's blood is stained over my wallposts.

[Taly]

@Taly: I don't have much to say in way of explaining my SR on texcat. I'm just saying if it ain't Kopbrass it's texcat.

And I dunno.. it's been a while and he night took like forever, but I seem to remember I got the feeling it was Sando is the Tracker after I had spent the game starting D2 thinking it was you. Something he said though convinced me he tracked profii to a kill.

Fitz is hard to read for me. His playstyle -in general- is one that could fit a TPR (not applicable here), a VT who is busy IRL (fitz is almost always busy), a Mafioso who is "playing solo" (i.e. making sure he's not linked with the other 2), or the SK. He didn't even make one serious push on anyone for me to try and see if that would come from scum!him or Town!him.

Btw, the same applies to Kop (but it's not the same for brass, whom I do believe to be busy IRL for this current time).

Suffice it to say meta-reading fitz/Kop is useless, and brass has exceptional circumstances that make his lack of activity NAI. texcat is playing within her scum-range though.

I'll think more about

texcat

if

Kopherald

or

havingfitz

flip town, but right now, I'm most confident in

Kopherald

scum, and I've stuck to that.

If we lynch correctly, the most that can happen is a 6-Person D5; this gives town an extra day.

If someone's being strongly scumread, and the responses have not dissipated the suspicion, I don't see a lot of town-motivation in prolonging discussion without factual information at this point.

In this circumstance; scum/SK will do everything they can to blur the lines of what they believe to be town or scum in order to generate WIFOM. That's not to say townies shouldn't question things, or confirm what someone means;

But look at

Kopherald and havingfitz's

responses to my case on them:

1)

Neither

of them even so asked about my conclusions and thought process, and they both treated as though my case didn't exist almost. There is no explanation provided by them.
-

2)

Kopherald

proceeds to vote

Havingfitz

, despite shading the possibility of

texcat

and

Ausuka

being scum as well - even though there are only 2 scum left. He also keeps talking about how he's already given cases but doesn't direct others to his points, or elaborate on how that read has evolved since flips and dayphases have passed. Why didn't

Kopherald

place his vote in his opening post of this day?
-

3)

Havingfitz

has tied the majority of his thinking today in locating the last scum partner based on interactions with

PROFII

alone. He's given rationale, but he's created a WHOLE DICHOTOMY within the playerlist. Essentially, he thinks Mafia is in: {Something_Smart, Kopherald, Taly} - and SK within {Almost50, Shadpearl, Ausuka, texcat} - He literally gave NO definitive stance on his thoughts, other than:

"you're not scum this way"

He also tops this off with saying he might end his vote onto

Kopherald

... because, why didn't he do that before?

They're both deflecting any argument on them, dodging it; and pointing the finger at anyone else in a manner that does NOT serve to provide ANY new insight into the game.

Havingfitz and Kopherald's

responses this game has only confirmed my scumreads on them.

Spoiler: My Detailed Response To Kopherald

So, on the Taly case, I think lots of confirmation bias is going on. Taly truly believes we are scum, and any explanations we give to anything that is brought up has already been ignored to accentuate the conclusion.

1)

What confirmation bias? Explain to me what you mean by that, and give an example of WHY my many reasons to suspect you as scum is THAT. That's more than dismissing my whole argument and saying

"I can't do anything about it"

or

"I've said all I needed to say"

2)

Are you scumreading me or not? If you aren't, then make more of an effort to talk to me.

Personally, that's why I'm not chomping at the bit to post here, it feels useless if people are just going to use something I've already spoken about with plenty of detail, like my lack of withdrawing the flavor leaf vote after his claim, to make a case and town's just going to follow the case. I've had my say, and people have shown a remarkable ability to ignore it and forget about it. I'm pretty sure this is an SK win at this point anyway because I think SK knows who the last scum is but scum doesn't know who the SK is.

...You're not game solving, or giving any clarity to anyone. This is not pro-town.

You didn't do anything else with your vote D1, why? That, and the Flavor Leaf claim-lynch, are not the ONLY reasons I'm scumreading you.

I'll lay our vote down for Fitz here and move on because no matter how many times we post our case, it bending l becomes that we haven't posted a case on them and I'm tired of putting in efforts that are going to be ignored.

VOTE: Fitz

SO you think

Havingfitz

is the SK? It's not like I'm disagreeing here... But I can't see how you're town when you aren't expanding on your thoughts.

Spoiler: My Detailed Response To havingfitz

So just some random non read-through based VCA musings from my phone....

-_- Are you saying this to minimize my thoughts?

I don't think (in order of conviction) that A50, Asuka or texcat are likely to be the last mafia based on their efforts towards profii.
I lean against Shad being the last mafia slightly based on their profii vote but moreso for profii's commitment towards Shad.
I lean least against Taly being the last mafia slightly based on their profii. I do think they are a decent candidate for bussing profii in combination with profii's brief, harmless, Taly vote yesterday.
Most likely to be the last mafia (in order of conviction) would be Kopherald, Something Special or the aforementioned Taly.

As for SKs...I think they are likely to be aggressive in their hunting for mafia (with town) but also not too bothered at anyone other than themselves being the eventual lynch. So I think there is a decent chance the SK is on both lynches. This filter would (in order of conviction) point to A50, texcat, Asuka and Shad.

To reiterate...

I think the last mafia (in order of conviction) is Kopherald, Something Special or the aforementioned Taly.
I think the sk (in order of conviction) is within A50, texcat, Asuka and Shad.

Further reading, and re-reading, as this day progresses will hopefully result in stronger reads for each scum.

.....This post is.... wow.

You literally put up a vague case on you suspecting EVERYONE in the game when 3/4ths of the playerlist are conftown based on setup.

And you didn't do anything else here, no questions, no votes, nothing to help better the town's perceptions.

.....

You want Kop lynched but you don't want to be held responsible just in case he is Town,

What are you talking about? My previous comments are based on what has happened up to this point. Iirc I've had a town lean on Kop till now. A second scum lynch chsnges that read imo. And I expect I'll vote KH shortly...just phone posting and the day just starting has me in no rush to vote.

Of course you'd want the day to last as long as possible.

You have no townreads. -_-

But you know, why wait to vote anyone then? The whole point of your 1319 was to take attention away from yourself, while saying so little out of a lot.

Also, I don't buy that you townread Kopherald early game:

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

I also ISOed you, and this was the only time you took a definitive stance on

Kopherald

throughout the entire game up until your latest posts that seem to suspect everyone.

^ That is to say I'M SORRY FOR USING THE WRONG PRONOUN

Oh, don't worry about that. I don't care if people mess up with pronouns.

I do my AVI like it is because I LOVE PURPLE. XD

[Taly]

Her overall play. As I said, I do not want to go back digging long forgotten details, but do you realize Taly didn't vote either of the lynched Doctors and the only lynch wagon she was on was profii's?

How does that make him not SK?

Seriously, it's not like I'm absolved from being wrong, because I have been wrong in this game, and I've admitted to it.

And to set things to perspective:

1)

For as much as I believed

TheGoldenParadox

was scum; I was NOT willing to lynch a doc-claim in D1 on

Flavor Leaf

.

2)

I actually was going to vote

JimmyUrineShot

after waffling on

profii

, and I've made my read progression on

profii

both D2 and D3 very obvious.

If there's any reasons at all, about my play, that you have questions, then I'm willing to answer them.

As for my push on

JayDragonKing

((which by the way, NOBODY LISTENED TO.))

, I wasn't 100% sold on him as scum, I just believed his play was atrocious for town.

And there are literally walls plastered on this thread about my interactions with

profii

.

I've taken every source of information I've gathered in this game to create my reads, votes, and pushes, while letting my reasoning be known.

[Taly]

I'm getting frustrated at this point.

Arguments for my alignment in this game has been WIFOMed and waffled on so incredibly much each time I take a position in this game.

There's an argument that I'm scum.
There's an argument that I'm SK.
There's an argument that counters me as SK.
There's an argument that I'm town.
There's an argument that I was bussing.

It's exhausting, and I feel like half the people making their reads on me are:

1)

Weakly-formulated.

2)

Serve to, what I can understand, is weaken my voice.

~~~

I don't know how 1317 and 1319 have not gathered more votes yet.

[Taly]

[Taly]

You can't even point me to the posts,

Kopherald

, and expand on them? Or has your thoughts just stayed the same this game?

Almost50

... why...

Something_Smart

, what are you even doing...

[Taly]

I have literally wanted to be NKed since N1.

[Taly]

I'm trying to understand your thought process because it makes no sense to me.

The way I see it, an SK sees all players roughly equally, and so they are not terribly invested in which players get lynched as long as it's not them. So if an SK is not under pressure... I don't see why they'd particularly avoid being on some wagons and not others, as you're suggesting.

Hi, I exist.

[Taly]

Taly, do you understand/agree with the argument A50 is putting forward here?

What part?

The literal read part that's moving the game?

Or the theoretical part that's drowning me out?

Hi Taly! I am trying to get A50 to explain his point of view in a comprehensible way because right now it's not really.

Like, really S_S.. get a grip, my friend. "only if they actually have better reads"?? THAT.. when we're discussing the case at hand where Taly actually ONLY lynched scum and wasn't on either of the Town wagons??

I'm not talking about Taly at this point. I'm talking about you saying that SK's will usually be on all lynch wagons or none of them.

I've been on BOTH town and scum wagons.

I've just ended D1 and D3 being on a scum wagon/lynch.

I've BEEN SK once. It's wise to kill whoever cannot support you as town, and it makes no sense to avoid any potential lynch wagon.

That's my perspective on how SKs would most likely play, and probably the closest I can ever get to a self-meta, on how I would be as an SK.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=60966

It was my first completed Mafia game ever; and I won the game.

My play here isn't as developed as it is now, but it's not too difficult to spot an SK.

SK's are like townies that play survivalistically, and don't initially care how a lynch will affect the town. They just need enough scum to die so their wincon is more likely to occur in the end.

That's how I've viewed my current strongest SK-read

havingfitz

.

[Taly]

Almost50

, are you thinking

texcat

is more likely SK? If so, what are you thinking about

havingfitz

?

[Taly]

So it's confirmed that I have piss-poor charisma, at least in this game...

I want to hear

texcat

speak more and respond to

Almost50

, but my stances/reads so far have not changed.

I don't know why anybody who's read the game would think I'm playing survivalistically.

[Taly]

I'm seriously debating on going VLA for 3 days so I won't start screaming in-thread.

This is not a threat, I'm genuinely annoyed at Mafia in general, and in real life. I know this is not good for the game or for the towns wincon.

1)

I don't agree that people are minimizing my push on

Kopherald

as solely based on NKA. It's also based on an associative toward

Profii

, VCA analsysis, my SK-guess on

havingfits

, how people have reacted to claims, and the fact that I feel like these group of people:

{Ausuka, Almost50, Shadpearl, Something_Smart, texcat}

- are more likely town in my eyes. Yes, I am open to suspecting

texcat

, and broadening my view if I'm so horribly wrong; but if we lynch correctly today, town has 2 more lynch opportunities and more time to discuss who's who AFTER a flip, where we have more information.

Kopherald

, please don't tell me to fuck off. I cannot tell you how much that pinges me, and how much I've had scum in the past give me such a similar response.

Havingfitz

, you keep going VLA so much after making very little impassioned pushes/votes, and it feels like you wait until someone's going to be wagoned/potentially-lynched before you throw a vote down...

At this point,

havingfitz

and

Kopherald

feel like scum to me just based on their responses.

But you know.... I know I'm just going to be told:

"

Taly's

stuck in conf-bias"
"

Taly's

case has flaws"
"

Taly

could be -insert any possible alignment here-"

So I'm just reserving judgement until after I have a clearer head, and probably do some more ISO-digging...

2)

I don't like that we have 3 people being voted on; there's only 2 scum left.

3)

I feel like I'm 1 of maybe, ONLY HALF the playerlist right now, that is actually making a stance and putting up a case.

Frustrates me more because almost every case I've made in this game have been blown off.

4)

Something_Smart

, you didn't read most of the game? Please fix that. Or at least ask questions.

~~~

I'll add more to my case on

Kopherald and/or havingfitz

when I can think clearly and won't drag town down with in text walls of emotion.

Coupled with exams, life events, and group activities... I'm exhausted.

[Taly]

Are people reading the thread before they post?

[Taly]

Apparent not.

[Taly]

@Taly: I now what you mean when you say you're annoyed at Mafia. Here's something I sometime do (just sometimes): Type your response in the most offensive form you can. Let all your emotions show. Use obscene vulgarity. When you're done.. reared it.. then delete it. Trust me, it works.

Ehhh... I feel a little bit better.

When I see fit.

I want to have some back-and-forth with Taly to get a better insight into the reasons for his reads, but I also want to give him some space.

Give me a line of questions, that is easier for me to compile a list of thoughts and give you my thinking better.

I don't think I'd characterize them as compellling. I just think they make a better case than Taly's NKA. (And I can hear Taly gnashing his teeth from way over here at my description of his case.)

*points to 1384, and most of my posts this dayphase beyond to iterate how "NKA" is not an accurate description of my full thoughts.

Claps hands to avoid rolling eyes because I haven't just been talking about a case on Kopherald*

i have been prodded!

my opinion hasn't changed since my last post and to be honest I doubt it's going to.

What about your opinions of

texcat

and

havingfitz

?

[Taly]

Give me a line of questions, that is easier for me to compile a list of thoughts and give you my thinking better.

Okay.
What are some quotes from Kopherald that make you think they are likely scum?
Why are those quotes more likely to come from scum?

I'll ISO

Kopherald

; and expand on why I don't like their posting today.

Spoiler: Quotes From Kopherald That I Think Could Be From Scum

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later?

If Doomfeathers is scum, Shadpearl is scum too, I guess.

Let's not forget that there is a SK in this game, so in reality, they both could be scum, but not on the same team.

So if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates, one mafia, and one SK?

- Kop

What was the need in pointing this out?

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

Honestly it's less a pressure vote and more of a "this is the most likely scum for me as of right now" vote. Obviously I am still looking for scum, as it's

possible

Creature is town and there's another explanation - it's not likely though, based on my previous games with him. But I'm keeping my options open, which was the reason for the disclaimer with my vote. I don't want to speedlynch because if we do, we'll have less information to go off of (which is another likely reason he's not participating); I would have been more cautious with my vote if he was close to hammer but he's not.

This is good posting.

Hey, I brought up the urge for someone to make an Avatar reference. You can atleast credit me for that.

This isn't great posting, but I did jump on the chance to make the Avatar joke. By the way, new theory maybe we are the air nomads? That being said, lots of people in this game are not doing anything yet.

-Brass

1)

States that

Lalendra

is making good posts, but doesn't elaborate why.

2)

States

JayDragonKing's

post is not good, with no reason, and with nothing but useless fluff.

Their thought process and views of the game are vague here.

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

You hate all four wagons, but you don't comment on Anienen (Pigeonman). Please explain.

-Brass

I don't think there's any good reason to wagon him; he hasn't looked particularly scummy that I remember, and his votes were just leftover RVS. I can examine him if you wish.

No need. I just found that odd.

-Brass

Finds something

doomfeathers

said as odd, after possibly townreading them? 51 - He fence-sits about thinking of the realities of

doomfeathers

being town or scum, but makes little conclusion or stance after questioning him and talking to him here.

@profii, I wasn't saying we were going to find associatives with Creature if he was scum. I was saying that there are 3 other scum in the game that we need to find, and can lynch creature if he's going to be obvious based on his meta but still wait long enough to develop reads on other people.

I am also of the opinion that Creature is not Obvscum here. I have been told by several people with far more experience than I that this is his established meta on Mafiascum.

Also, I am also suspicious of Lalendra and have been since I realized she misrepped Creature.

I'm still on TGP though, I think now he's just upset probably because he'll insist I caught him "for the wrong reasons" or whatever scum caught early say.

FOS Lalendra

-Brass

1)

Isn't stating or referencing where

Lalendra

misrepped

Creature

.

2)

Despite saying

Lalendra

was making good posts, he FOS' her when her wagon was becoming prevalent.

3)

No vote? What is the purpose of this post? Just to point out a reason to suspect

Lalendra

?

I didn't realise A50 was so far in the voting counter.

I haven't ISO'd everybody since I last said I would, I've got a free weekend coming up, so hopefully I can go through them.

- Kop

This is bothersome; this sounds like an apathetic approach toward a discussion-driving wagon on

Almost50

. Also, there's no follow up on any ISOs here.

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

Since this post, you've stated you hate this game, so I'm not really expecting a response. However, you've seen your wagon, and you think there is opportunism based on your wagon.

It would be nice for you to answer to the wagon, and actually pick apart your wagon, who do you feel is the opportunistic person on the wagon, and give us some thoughts, who do you think is possibly scum.

Because the more you leave it, the more I'm going to think this is caught scum and can't answer to it. The Brass head put the vote on you, from his previous experience with you, so I'm going off what he knows about you, but you aren't really convincing me that he (Brass) is wrong on this one. So up to now, I'm happy to keep the vote where it is.

- Kop

While it's good to sync with your hydra;

Kop

expresses no specific read on

TGP

himself, and he voteparks without looking at anyone else.

Right now, my lynchpool would be: TGP, Shad, Jay, Fitz, and Anen.

- Kop

This post is what makes 357 seem bad alongside it.

There are only 4 potential scum within this setup, and here Kop creates a lynchpool of 5 people WITHOUT any questions, discussion points, votes, or anything beyond the fact that he's satsfied with voting and lynching TGP.

I feel like Kopherald, early-game, was literally sitting around while finding reasons to suspect people. There's really no post up to this point that suggests he has a townread or reasoning behind one beyond the lynchpool.

Hi, it's me, Brass, and I am here to share my infinite wisdom with you.

There are so many replacements. Is this normal for big games?

I'm on my phone so no walls from me.

I like the idea of keeping pressure, but is it really going to do anything? It seems like vote pushing just isn't working. There are too many divided players and too many people throwing away their votes. Idk quite what to do about this. Never had this problem before.

I think Almost50 is crazy, lol. Although, from the outside looking in, his posts are perfect because I can't make up my mind if he's terrible scum or the ballsiest townie I've ever seen

Sando, I'm just new and town. Sorry. Not more exciting. You are welcome to wagon me. If it gets the game moving, it's all good I suppose. I'd like to be town together though.

In my opinion, Sando is basically the only person I currently DON'T think is a possible killer. And profii, on the outside.
2 semi-discovered!
13 to go!

Last Note, continuously hopping from one vote to another is tiresome.

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom has been expended. I'll be back eventually.

-Brass

Very flippant way of discrediting

Shadpearl

here; he shows no reasoning and deems that his post is one that holds insight but the only motive for this post was to paint

Shadpearl

in a anti-town light without logical thinking.

Jumped the gun there, Anen. Voting me for the joke vote on Almost seems like the weirdest reason to vote me.

He seems a bit weird in general.

Pigeonman would be an acceptable lynch from my viewpoint.

-Brass

1)

Notice how, despite his vote remaining on

TheGoldenParadox

;

Brass/Kop

are both pretty content with lynching 1/3rd of the playerlist?

2)

If

Kopherald

, or anyone, truly scumreads someone -

((I'm assuming

Kopherald

scumreads

JayDragonKing

here, because he's in the lynchpool))

- why is

Kopherald

not questioing

JayDragonKing's

sentiment on

Aneninen

?

3)

No notable stated stance on his reads or mentality.

And it seems that your also setting A50 up for the lynch too.

- Kop

In the ISO,

Kop

had a less memorable post directed to

profii

prior to this; and I don't quite know why

Kopherald

would make this statement?

Lynching one of the slots that left is the optimal play, both were being scum read pretty universally.

I still think TGP who asked to be replaced out 4 days ago, should be the lynch. For good measure, because I'm not positive we are voting.
VOTE: Paradox slot

-Brass

...This wasn't a new vote, but a revote.

Literally nothing has seemed to change about Kopherald's minimally-known read progression and discussion throughout D1, mostly reasoned out of activity, from what I've understood here.

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

But, seeing as how my read of TGP was so damn bad yesterday, I am reevaluating all reads based on content throughout day 2, and hopefully Kop-head can overcome me-head's tendency to lead to mislynches.

-Brass

-_-...

Apparently, when I push/vote someone due to no contribution in the game, it's straight.

((Which isn't my whole reasoning, because

Kopherald's

minimizing my thought on

JayDragonKing

here))

But when

Kopherald

wants to lynch an inactive slot, it's not odd to him.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I just don't like this slot, I know he's been V/LA a lot on day one, but since he's come back, he's done very little.

His vote on Jimmy is based on that hammer, and very little else. He hasn't taken a much of a stance in the time he's been here, and it's giving me a gut feeling that he isn't town.

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

- Kop

Kopherald's

stating what most of the playerlist already thinking of

JimmyUrineShot

, and places a potential SK or scumread on him? I don't get the meta thinking here.

So, I'm looking and I know lurking is scum!Creature's meta for Day 1. Is anyone familiar with Creature meta well enough to know what Day 2 lurking means because I am not?

Tonight was date night for me and the fiance but I don't want to be prodded, so thoughts on recent activity without going too in depth because I want to go to bed soon.

I get the profii push, I could get behind it. I feel like the voting Texcat for being on wagons yesterday is out of character for him as well.

I still want to leave a full read of havingfitz for Kop to do when he returns, but, I definitely agree with LUV's 975 and 977 I don't have much experience here, but fitz is really just being a non factor in this game. I don't see him making any real reads, I don't see much activity from him. Also, 972 is super weird, like fitz is casing himself.

JimmyDisgustingName is absent, and I still do not see anything even resembling scum hunting from the slot, though, that seems to be because he hasn't posted in over 5 days. I don't know that this is AI, exactly, but this is not great.

I'm liking LUV, he has insight, he's pushing people, engaging in the limited discussions of the game.

The rest of you are still pretty cool. That being said, since I am the one here, and Kop is not.

VOTE: Profii since he pretty much says he'll only be useful if we vote him, I'd like him to put up or shut up.

-Brass

1)

Earlier in

Kopherald's

ISO, he states that

Creature

was most likely scum if he has little activity, but now, he's questioning

Creature's

D2 meta? Again, no clarity with the reads.

2)

Talks about

JimmyUrineShot

being anti-town, but doesn't vote there or say anything to gauge for discussion revolving around that...

3)

Why is this one of the first semi-explained townreads coming from this slot? This is almost 1000 posts in.

4)

Votes

profii

... to push him? I don't get what

"put up or shut up"

means, and I feel like this is a very mechanical response, I think

Kopherald's

wanting a wagon but he's not willing to hear

profii

out? I don't get the purpose of this vote or his read here.

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

I now realize I misread the second quote here. My apologies for that.

VOTE: Jimmy

He needs to be hanged or replaced, if the mod checks the thread again.

-Brass

What? Literally, the next post is a vote-hop toward

Jimmy

just because

Kopherald

misread something on

profii

? There were tons of reasons to suspect

profii

at this point, and

Kopherald

jumps off his wagon the moment it seems like he could.

#55 pretty much sheeped my vote on Shad. Never got into further detail beyond that.

#57 Tried to look busy by picking up on my misworded post

#82 He claims to be taking stances and making observations, before that post, I see very little observations or stances taken.

#499 A complete overreaction to my post towards Creature, and voted me without a valid reason for a vote.

#587 V/LA Over, catching up on ongoing games. #589 a question mark towards A50, but nothing more for almost nearly 200 posts.

#775 A vote on Jimmy for that hammer, town lean on Shad. That's it. Promised a read from the beginning, again nothing more for nearly 200 posts.

#948 He claims my read on him is based on previous meta. It's not just down to that.

#950 Yet another promise, nothing backed up.

#970 A empty question.

#976 If it's low, why aren't you prodding questions, engaging in the game, instead of sitting on the fence.

That is pretty much what I see from his ISO. Empty promises, lack of content, no stances, no engaging, no observations.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I am aware that he has been V/LA for quite some time, but in the times he has been on, and posting in here, he hasn't done a great deal.

Again,

Kopherald's

inconsistent on his views toward voting inactive players; other people voting based on lack of contribution is odd, but a lot of his reason for voting

TheGoldenParadox

, and now

havingfitz

is activity... followed by saying

havingfitz

has taken no stances, and saying that havingfitz was overreacting to a post.

Does productive town EVER look at a post and think:

"This person's overreacting."

based on a vote?

So, again another push of us from Ausuka without an actual case.

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

And by the way, if trying to work with the rest of the town to look for lynches is "actively opportunistic" then I'm always fucking "actively opportunistic". That's how you fucking play mafia, you try to develop reads and lynch them, sometimes you're wrong, and that's okay. But, at least we're trying and not just saying that it's a "gut read" and "anyone can see it if they look at the stuff I saw" even though you don't bother actually building a case. That's why I said yesterday that Ausuka was scum, and that's why I still believe it, but we have a case for fitz up and out in the open, so we are pursuing that and that alone today. But, you all follow the one who hasn't actually posted any analysis the whole game.

-Brass (probably for the last time)

The worst post in the game is here.

1)

Shades the playerlist saying we're all playing poorly.

2)

Demeans a case without really stating why they feel that way.

3)

THINKS IT'S ABSURD THAT I ASKED THEM A QUESTION.

Somehow, it's odd that I ask a question while he states we should all be trying to progress it to game solve?

4)

Seriously, this is the first time I heard

Kopherald

discuss

Ausuka

, and he's saying he thought she was scum since yesterday BECAUSE of her push on him? This is blatantly trying to derail a valid argument while feigning emotion.

5)

Refers to

Ausuka

as "the one who hasn't actually posted any analysis the whole game", which is false, because

Ausuka's

had more content in half of her posts than

Kopherald

has had most of the game... and then further iterates his "problem" with the playerlist by saying we're all following her.

Not to mention, I'm the only one even voting you.
I have no idea how a player who is actually reading the thread posts 1087.

And the rest of the game, you have been voting with zero analysis. Just making your read lists and voting.

I am saying today it's a gut read, but I have seen nothing in terms of actual thoughts coming from your slot. I don't care if today the flavor is gut reading or not, but you have shown no analysis.

If I'm still being unclear, the point is that you have not posted a thought process at any point in the game from what I can tell. I'm not saying you have only been voting your gut reads this whole game, but this is the first time I have seen any reasoning at all for your votes, and it's "gut says so"

-Brass

Honestly, I think

Ausuka's

completely right here.

Anyone who doesn't see what I'm meaning? ISO

Ausuka

, and watch as all of

Kopherald's

accusations and reasons crumble.

VOTE: Profii

WTF is this? A naked vote.

I mean seriously.

- Kop

-_- Naked voted aren't inherently scummy, not without stated reasoning; and there's no assessment being provided here.

Fitz is on 3 votes, Profii is on 3 votes, Fitz votes for the next vanity wagon to over take himself, Almost50 votes for Profii and puts him at L-1.

Why would Fitz vote for the next biggest wagon? Without a valid reason or any reason at all.

It's nothing but a survivalist vote. Scummy.

- Kop

Oh look, a reason 20 posts after.

I've spoke with Brass a little bit over the past few days whilst we were waiting for day to come round. And we both said what was going to happen, and that it has happened. Scum have clearly seen there was suspicion aimed at us before the previous day ended, and have directed there kills to further strengthen that suspicion pointing to us.

We have also discussed a little bit, and both agreed scum is within Fitz/Ausuka and a outside chance of Texcat.

- Kop

Ugh...

1)

There's 2 scum in the game, not 3. No motivation to try and see who could be town in his little pool.

2)

Is this the first time he's ever mentioned

texcat

? Why does he think she's scum?

3)

Ignores my initial posts on him being scum, and states that he's being framed for kills, presumably after seeing my case... and says that scum is doing this... but continues to discuss that scum is within

Fitz/Ausuka

; people he's already scumread, and he's provided no insight into how hydra has agreed on them being scum.

So, on the Taly case, I think lots of confirmation bias is going on. Taly truly believes we are scum, and any explanations we give to anything that is brought up has already been ignored to accentuate the conclusion.

Personally, that's why I'm not chomping at the bit to post here, it feels useless if people are just going to use something I've already spoken about with plenty of detail, like my lack of withdrawing the flavor leaf vote after his claim, to make a case and town's just going to follow the case. I've had my say, and people have shown a remarkable ability to ignore it and forget about it. I'm pretty sure this is an SK win at this point anyway because I think SK knows who the last scum is but scum doesn't know who the SK is.

I'll lay our vote down for Fitz here and move on because no matter how many times we post our case, it bending l becomes that we haven't posted a case on them and I'm tired of putting in efforts that are going to be ignored.

VOTE: Fitz

1343 shows the confirmation bias I was talking about.

I mean, whatever we do just proves to Taly that we are scum. That's why I'm not going to waste my time responding to cases when he's clearly just under extreme confirmation bias. It's a pretty decent case if you only focus on the things he says and nothing else that we have said the entire game. Like, seriously Taly, fuck off. I'm not wasting my time responding to you when you have shown repeatedly that it won't matter. You made your point, you're wrong, I'm done with it. We'vce expanded on the havingfitz case weeks ago, I explained the no unvote for Flavour Leaf weeks ago. That's two points you have ignored, why should I put my time and energy into any other responses when my responses have already gone ignored?

No matter how many times I hit my head against a goddamned wall, my head is breaking before the wall, and that's what it feels like at this point.

-Brass

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO.

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

-Brass

I already tore up these 3 posts.

1)

Kopherald

is dismissing me by saying I'm being misled and that I'm now stuck in 'conf-bias' against him.

2)

Kopherald

makes absolutely no attempts to clarify his reads on me, and anyone beyond

Fitz/Ausuka/texcat

3)

Despite me being so terribly wrong, he doesn't fight my case, and he doesn't try to tell me more about his perspective IF he thinks I'm town.

4)

Focusing a lot of his effort in havingfitz now...

5)

Tells me to fuck off; even though I'm actively trying to engage with him. He's just saying I'm wrong and that it's no big deal, but he's not helping anything at all if he's truly town.

... I don't understand how this COULD be town.

[Taly]

ISO on

havingfitz

...

Spoiler: How I Think Havingfitz Could Be Scum From These Posts

btw

mod...I'm v/LA now until Mar 13th.

I'll be able to keep up via phone, and post somewhat...but will definitely be less active.

1st time VLA.

However, Shad has pinged my radar,

His lone post pings me as well. If doomfeather seems town to him why would he suggest saving doom to vote for later?

VOTE: Shadpearl

Seems like an easy vote?... There was more discussion beyond Shadpearl here.

82

1)

I don't know where he's going with the reply to

Creature

; I just don't see him making any judgments.

2)

Does not explain the

Creature

meta to me, or his thoughts revolving around that.

Furthermore, why has the mod not prodded fitz, despite his VLA status? Whether he is scum or town, it is bad for the game if he's going to join and not be able to post at all for 2 weeks.

@Mod looking forward to your response

-Brass

Where are you getting two weeks from?

I'm still v/la...the snowstorm in NE is delaying my return till Thursday morning.

I'll try to catch up on my reading asap.
Till then....
UNVOTE:

2nd time noting his VLA, with not other content here.

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

What question was this again? Why is it so bad for Kop to ask this question?

V/la over. Catching up with my ongoing games today.

Another post where he says he'll catch up...

VOTE: Jimmy for that hammer.

Lean town on Shad.

I need to reread game from beginning. Too much time away from this game.

...Literally nothing else notable in his ISO from this post to the last post... 200 posts ago.

Zzzzzzz. No comment.

I forgot I had this quote until I previewed because of how useless it was.

V/la till Monday morning.

3rd time going VLA.

shadpearl is town for this so

how?

Replacing Mathdino.
Please do not speculate on the events which led to it.

Sooooo....no town pass for Shad. Got it.

Talks nothing about his own thoughts over

Shadpearl

.

What makes you think scum would blatantly contradict themselves like that? Why didn’t you ask him to clarify what he meant?

I don't like contradictions.
For early game non rvs pressure I'm fine using it for a vote.
I didn't ask because I didn't care for a reason.

Weak reason to scumread someone, and he openly admits that he doesn't need a reason or anything to clarify his perceptions prior to a vote.

A quick thought.
I found it weird that Havingfits had asked about my V/LA.
He'd hardly done anything. Why was it that important? I'm not an important player here anyway.

Did you have a question for me?

You appear to be rambling on with yourself.

This post just serves to make

Aneninen

seem ineffective, and

havingfitz

isn't even trying to engage with

Aneninen

in conversation.

I'm still happy with my vote on Fitz.

Because I'm not playing like I did in a game where I was an sk?

If you're going to rely on meta for your gut reads on me you could at least look at gsmes we've played where I was scum (Open 674 & mini 1653). I don't think those games will apply to this one but they'd probably be better than an sk game. You could also peruse the several town games we've been in.

Is this

havingfitz's

only defense for himself?

The game has come to a stagnation.. again

Qft.

I haven't got a lot of room to talk but things have ground to a halt it seems.

6 days is still time to lynch elsewhere if a promising wagon develops but that would involve people participating.

I'll try to get refreshed on the game over the next few days and do a few isos...give expanded reads. Etc etc.

We're all still waiting for these expanded reads.

HavingFitz, may be scum.

But he isn't.

Why would you think so?

Just like most responses

havingfitz

gives to someone; they're very dodgy, and he asks questions, but doesn't deliver with his own insights or beliefs.

He's playing very quietly, absorbing information, and then searching for fallacies in someone else without letting his thoughts be known.

HavingFitz, may be scum.

But he isn't.

Why would you think so?

I think it's the lack of posting? Or maybe the lack of reads, just judging by what people have been saying.


No one has any commentary on Creature possibly being the SK? x) I thought that was such a great theory, lol.

Hi Shad. Good to see you posting.

The question was for Aneninen...not for you.

Despite being v/LA a good portion of this game I have posted more than a few players...yourself included. texcat. Jimmy. And I've given a few reads out. I've stated at least one town read and indicated a least two players I suspect. So I've given reads on a quarter of the remaining players without really even trying.

A few bonus reads for you...pre-refresh + ISOs....I lean not mafia on Luv and A50. And Creature. As for Creature being an SK....I do not SK hunt until I have to.

1)

Since someone

(Shadpearl)

messaged

havingfitz

and not who

havingfitz

wanted to post to him,

Aneninen

; he doesn't really respond to

Shadpearl's

prompt.

2)

Gives no reasoning for reads. Puts more emphasis that he's given more people to suspect than townread.

3)

Does not care to SK hunt, because...? It's good that town gets 2 people NKed in one night?

4)

Openly admits he's not trying on his reads.

5)

Likes to state how, despite being VLA longer, he's posted MORE than other players... even though 3 of my posts in this game have outweighed his entire ISO in content.

I'd put money on a Profii scumflip meaning a Fitz scumflip too

Where are you dreaming this up from?

Another dodgy, discredit-type response that doesn't serve to give any of his thoughts, or logically debunk another person's.

First check-in since last week (weekend + Easter).

I'm confined to phone use for the immediate future so comments will be short/limited.

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

Why? Low activity + v/la's?

I'll try to get read up today and post asap.

4th time mentioning he's been VLA and inattentive.

VOTE: Profii

This was when

profii

was soon to be hammered, and there's no reasoning here.

VOTE: Profii

WTF is this? A naked vote.

Yes.

This guy really loves to minimize everything and then not talk about it.

eats rope

The phrase "eats rope" is a scum slip.

Also...do you have any issues with the others voting profii?

1)

The supposed "scumslip" havingfitz claimed on Kopherald was probably the most reachy argument in this entire game.

2)

Diverting discussion from himself.

UNVOTE: for claim + results.

Would vote Shad but not sure what count is so I'll hold off for now.

Unvotes because of a result+claim, but doesn't vote

Shadpearl,

even though he's not paying attention to the game VC?

This is also hilarious to me. Two other people have made comprehensive posts about fitz looking like scum, and seemingly, he wants to ignore those two acting like he'll respond to this one.

Actually I'm typing up a response to some of your post right now.

Who was the other "comprehensive" post from?

Where was this response? It never happened.

Post weekend check in. Catching up asap.

Oh look, another point where he states he's had such low activity.

So just some random non read-through based VCA musings from my phone....

I don't think (in order of conviction) that A50, Asuka or texcat are likely to be the last mafia based on their efforts towards profii.
I lean against Shad being the last mafia slightly based on their profii vote but moreso for profii's commitment towards Shad.
I lean least against Taly being the last mafia slightly based on their profii. I do think they are a decent candidate for bussing profii in combination with profii's brief, harmless, Taly vote yesterday.
Most likely to be the last mafia (in order of conviction) would be Kopherald, Something Special or the aforementioned Taly.

As for SKs...I think they are likely to be aggressive in their hunting for mafia (with town) but also not too bothered at anyone other than themselves being the eventual lynch. So I think there is a decent chance the SK is on both lynches. This filter would (in order of conviction) point to A50, texcat, Asuka and Shad.

To reiterate...

I think the last mafia (in order of conviction) is Kopherald, Something Special or the aforementioned Taly.
I think the sk (in order of conviction) is within A50, texcat, Asuka and Shad.

Further reading, and re-reading, as this day progresses will hopefully result in stronger reads for each scum.

You want Kop lynched but you don't want to be held responsible just in case he is Town,

What are you talking about? My previous comments are based on what has happened up to this point. Iirc I've had a town lean on Kop till now. A second scum lynch chsnges that read imo. And I expect I'll vote KH shortly...just phone posting and the day just starting has me in no rush to vote.

Of course you'd want the day to last as long as possible.

You have no townreads. -_-

The post you quote was one of the first I'd made this gameday...and not being terribly confident about any reads...why rush things.

My reads this game are a sliding scale of suspicion. If you want to know who I think is most likely town invert the reads I provided.

And I'm not trying to ignore anything. If you have something you really wanted a response on repost it....succintly if possible.

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO

I vote players I suspect. I.e. votes are reads. I give a read on Shad (55) and Jimmy (775). And you (499).

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

While this is technically true...it's a bit misreppish as the people I have near the end of my lists equate to town reads.

I'm travelling the rest of today so essentially ~v/la soon.

I'm tired of Brass' bravado and the hydra's play in general.

VOTE: Kopherald

These posts for the day truly do not serve anything but to fill air, for the most part.

YAY! This is like, the 5th or 6th time he brings up going VLA?

Wait, where's his VLA slash thingy? Hmmmm.... Is he TRULY VLA, or is he just avoiding conversation?

I already discussed how bad his other posts today were, his lynchpool is everyone but himself, and that's completely in sync with his entire gameplay.

He's the epitome of playing survivalistically.

you keep going VLA so much after making very little impassioned pushes/votes, and it feels like you wait until someone's going to be wagoned/potentially-lynched before you throw a vote down...

Also this just caught my eye. None of this is alignment indicative.

I mean, if

havingfitz

wants to point out how low he's participating by his own standards; then why is he even playing in this game?

He's posting at optimal and convenient times for him to vote someone without much reasoning. Plus, his responses in the game, I've already stated, have been very dodgy. I just don't see how this is coming from town at this point.

Havingfitz

is also mostly available when he's getting scumread.

This can't be just laid-back town, this is an avoidant scum.

It's like

Kopherald

, but less in your face, and tries to avoid things rather than discredit them more.

[Taly]

I'll only move my vote if it is to hammer

havingfitz

today.

[Taly]

But that doesn't change my

Kopherald

scumread.

[Taly]

FTR, long days with minimal activity tend to bore me to the bone. I'd hammer myself if that's what we need to end the day!

P.S. If I ever get to mod games of my own design the deadlines will be 7 days at max.

Hammer

Kopherald

if you believe there's validity in the multiple cases I've launched onto him.

I feel like if we lynch fitz and kopherald the game is just over and we're just wasting our time right now. I'm not going to change my mind unless I see one of them flip town, full stop.

Honestly, I have the same thought process here.

[Taly]

Kopherald

did what I expected him to.

Yeah, self-hammering as town will put us at a 3-1-1 mylo most likely, so I'm sure this is a scumlynch.

[Taly]

No, that makes them very likely to be town and it's likely fitz/tex imo, though I could be wrong.

If

Kopherald

flips town, then I am completely speechless.

~~~

However, if

Kopherald

flips scum, and assuming a successful NK, there will be 5 town and 1 scum and/or SK left.

So town has bought themselves a day here.

In this reality,

havingfitz

should be near auto-lynch level.

[Taly]

Kopherald

did what I expected him to.

Yeah, self-hammering as town will put us at a 3-1-1 mylo most likely, so I'm sure this is a scumlynch.

Why would a lone scumster (be tha a SK or the last Mafioso) self-hammer? That is explicitly playing against one's own wincon.

Can't the same thing be said if he were town?

I just don't understand why

town-Kopherald

would never really address my points and have such an apathetic perspective on the game.

[Taly]

Well yeah, if

Kopherald

flips town, we need to reevaluate our reads, and I'll be far more thoughtful in my reads, but I still think

havingfitz

is likely scum.

[Taly]

I would never self hammer or self vote, regardless of my alignment.

...Seriously, if you're town then I don't understand what your gameplay and I'm sorry.

[Taly]

I'm going to be so upset at a townflip. :/ Genuinely.

I suck at mafia.
There better not be a townflip.
Why didn't anyone elaborate on their thoughts on not wanting to lynch

Kopherald

?
I suck at mafia.
This is another reason why I didn't want to survive this long in the game.
Why didn't a lot of people elaborate on their independent thoughts on

Kopherald, havingfitz, and texcat

?
I suck at mafia.
I'm taking

Almost50's

advice; except I'm taking out all of the obscenities and posting my thoughts.
WHY DID YOU SELF-HAMMER

KOPHERALD

?
I suck at mafia.
I'm going to be so frustrated with myself if I'm wrong.
Why did nobody take more time to look at my cases and respond to them?
I suck at mafia.
All of that hard work, and it most of it will fly out of the window upon a townflip.

I suck at mafia.

[Taly]

Yeah, I was thinking

texcat

wasn't really town, and I didn't like their vote onto

Kopherald

But there was no way of knowing who was likely what alignment without a flip, and based on previous days, and how I built the reasons in my head; a

Kopherald

lynch seemed to be the most likely to flip scum.

I kind of just want to be NKed though... if nothing else but to avoid another cascade of potential WIFOM around my slot.

But I'm not having high hopes at this point.

I'm sorry again,

Kopherald

! Nothing personal

[Taly]

I don't take it personally, I got frustrated, to be honest, this situation was just the game. I need to be more level headed sometimes.

This thread is long overdue for a kitty gif.

[Taly]

Taly you don't suck, you just need to be less confident. Made the game much more enjoyable for me when I figured that out

The thing is, I'm usually not confident much at all.

And now I'm being reminded why that wasn't really a bad thing...

[Taly]

To be honest, I dimmed down some of my doubtful thoughts in this game because I thought that would get me killed earlier.

[Taly]

I don't think I'd characterize them as compellling. I just think they make a better case than Taly's NKA. (And I can hear Taly gnashing his teeth from way over here at my description of his case.)

I give up. We can lynch Fitz tomorrow.

VOTE: KopHerald

I believe that's L-1.

I mean, you went a bit far as to say that my case wasn't that great without much stated reasoning... and when that didn't discourage me, you threw a vote to push

Kopherald

to L-1, while saying we should go after

havingfitz

tomorrow.

If you believed that there was a better option, why did you submit to my thoughts?

You could've expanded on your own.

[Taly]

So... this may or may not be mylo. I'm going to treat it like it is.

I'm not doing another NKA at this moment; I'm still a bit sad about everything revolving around D4, especially the aftermath. :/ Not that impressed with my gameplay either.

texcat

, I still full-heartedly expect you to answer 1432.

We need more engagement from both

havingfitz

and

Shadpearl

.

[Taly]

texcat, I still full-heartedly expect you to answer 1432.

Why didn't I push Fitz harder? I didn't see it going anywhere. You didn't seem like you were going to change your mind. Ausuka plainly stated twice that they weren't going to change. Plus, I was scum reading Kop, just not as strong a read as I had on Fitz.

I mean, I was wanting people to elaborate on any reason they would rather not lynch

Kopherald

... or why they'd think someone else was more likely scum.

I wasn't convinced by people because the majority of everyone's response to me last dayphase was:

"

Taly

is confbiasing"
"The NKA argument is not compelling at all."
"Does this really give

Taly

a pass in alignment?"
"You're bad at scumhunting"
"I like this"

I can't work with people if they make blanket statements and assume shit without trying to understand my whole perspective first.

By the way, why

WASN'T

my NKA-D4 not compelling to you?

VOTE: Fitz

You've been on the

Flavor Leaf

lynch. 742
The

JimmyUrineShot

lynch. 1011
The

profii

lynch. 1236

((By the way,

profii's

actually the only person out of these 4 that have genuinely attempted vote/push you. 895 - 902 - 979))

...and also the

Kopherald

lynch. 1433

Is this

really

how you want to start out this dayphase - a potential mylo scenario - give you've been on 3 out of 4 mislynches? Does that tell you anything about your reads or gameplay?

[Taly]

If this is

texcat

and

havingfitz's

typical townplay, then I'm recommending they tweak their meta... a good bit.

And to be honest, I though more people than

texcat and I

would be posting in the thread by this point.

But I mean,

texcat

posted in a REPLY to me, so.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Taly]

Shadpearl's

at lurker status to me at this point.

[Taly]

VOTE: texcat

Not all tunnels are bad. Some tunnels

are

on scum

Can you give me your reads/thoughts on

Something_Smart, Shadpearl, and havingfitz

?

By the way, why

WASN'T

my NKA-D4 not compelling to you?

I thought we discussed NKA ad nauseum yesterday. NKA is suspect because it is so easily manipulated by scum. It's entirely WIFOM. I don't think I'll ever find it

compelling

.

I don't recall you elaborating your thoughts on NKA in general on this subject, you just stated that my case wasn't compelling.

And while NKA's aren't often certain, they do provide possible realities to look into based on a flip. It's a good tool to use when there's an abundance of information imo.

What's your take on A50 still being alive?

Almost50

is just about

IC-level

to me, to be honest.

There's no CC, there's nothing to suggest anyone else is the Doc, or if

Almost50

is lying.

I just think

Almost50

is still alive to create WIFOM, and scum wants town to suspect him for still being here.

It'd be stupid for town to even try to disprove/suspect/lynch

Almost50

today, I'm entirely against suspicion on him.

Townhunting is just as important as scumhunting; and

Almost50

is my most confident townread.

I went back to look at all the votes.
Texcat:

FlavorLeat, Jimmy,

Profii

,

KopHerald

Almost50:

FlavorLeaf, Jimmy,

Profii

, Texcat
Taly:

JayDragon

, NV,

Profii

,

KopHerald

Fitz:

KopHerald, Jimmy,

NV,

KopHerald

Shadpearl: NV,

Jimmy,

Profii

, NV
Something:

FlavorLeaf,

Profii

, NV, NV

I didn't see anything of particular note, but perhaps someone will. LUV voted Profii on D2, but was not on the lynch D3.

I do see something particular based on this information.

Havingfitz

only cares about town-wagon/lynches, mostly his tunnel on

Kopherald,

and you care about scum when they suspect you. You haven't really tried to avoid any

popular

wagon in this game.

[Taly]

Almost50

, I feel like we are a 2-slot hydra right now.

I agree with your reads on the slots, I'm just least sure about

Shadpearl

, but I think he's an easy mislynch target.

As long as I'm alive, the lynch order is:

{texcat, havingfitz}

- and I think this wins us the game.

But, there are 2 things keeping me from voting at the moment-

1)

...I said this with

Kopherald

/havingfitz

D4... and we know how that ended. So I'm being careful, and less tunnel-y at the moment.

2)

Ideally, I want

Something_Smart, Shadpearl, and havingfitz

to post.

My engagement with

texcat

this dayphase has only reaffirmed my suspicions/scumread on her in Twilight-of-D4.

[Taly]

Outside of

Mathdino's

thing, I still think

Shadpearl

is more likely a mislynch target either way. He's been a NV for 2 ending dayphases... that doesn't ring to me as scum, initially. I kind of feel like his play is still more likely new-towny.

Almost50

is not dead because scum probably wants us to question why he isn't. That's my thinking. Kind of curious about what

texcat

thinks of

Almost50

being alive.

Something_Smart

, is

texcat

or

havingfitz

more likely scum to you? Where would you most want to place a vote or lynch right now?

I'm leaning

texcat

.

Town needs to be in sync ASAP.

[Taly]

Um.

I thought havingfitz fosing literally the entire playerlist was sort of towny, so I'd probably say texcat.

FOSing the entire playerlist when he:

1)

Asked no questions.

2)

Gave no defined assessments of who might be town to him.

3)

Suspecting the claimed doc.

Is not at all towny to me, personally.

But I'm thinking

texcat

is last scum.

And yeah I can go look at what Mathdino said but I very much doubt that it's possible to read Shadpearl's alignment from the mod's decision to replace Mathdino.

I don't think it warrants a townread either, but by PoE, I think

Shadpearl

is more likely town.

I don't entirely know your reads at the moment? I'm guessing you townread

Almost50

and... me, I guess? Is there a scumread you feel strongly about?

[Taly]

I'm much more of a townhunter than a scumhunter, and having replaced in when I did I don't really think I could have any good scumreads (even if I did read everything).

So yes, the townreads are correct-- I townread you, and A50 is town by claim.

I try to do a healthy mix of both townhunting and scumhunting, as we should because that's how town group together and gamesolve.

And

if

you agree with me and

Almost50

on our

texcat

scumread, then where's your vote? Are you waiting for

Shadpearl

and

havingfitz

to post?

{Shadpearl, texcat, havingfitz}

There's 1 town within these 3.

[Taly]

Almost50 is just about IC-level to me, to be honest.

There's no CC, there's nothing to suggest anyone else is the Doc, or if Almost50 is lying.

I just think Almost50 is still alive to create WIFOM, and scum wants town to suspect him for still being here.

It'd be stupid for town to even try to disprove/suspect/lynch Almost50 today, I'm entirely against suspicion on him.

Townhunting is just as important as scumhunting; and Almost50 is my most confident townread.

I agree with all of this. You admit that A50 is alive to create WIFOM, but you don't think that the kills were made to create WIFOM?

Kills and keeping people alive always create some level of WIFOM; I don't see another reason why

Almost50

would still be alive then.

What do you think about the

Ausuka

-kill?

Taly, I guess you still think that Fitz is the SK?

Yeah, he hasn't done anything to change the nature of my scumread on him.

...and my standards for towny-play have been lowered by a lot since D1. A lot.

And

if

you agree with me and

Almost50

on our

texcat

scumread, then where's your vote? Are you waiting for

Shadpearl

and

havingfitz

to post?

For sure, and I'm just taking my time in general because I don't like to rush things.

And this, is why I'm comfortable calling you town.

Though, what do you think about

texcat

not really responding to our scumreads on them?

[Taly]

I'm giving it, at most, a day before I vote.

[Taly]

What do you think about the Ausuka-kill?

I think it's interesting that there was only 1 kill last night. I'm guessing that both scum and the SK went after Ausuka. You could make the argument that Ausuka was killed because they suspected Fitz, or you could make the argument that Ausuka was killed because scum wanted to make Fitz look guilty. I do note that Ausuka added me to their suspect list after Kop's flip. But I'm pretty sure she would be voting Fitz today.

So you're saying

havingfitz

probably killed

Ausuka

? Plus,

Ausuka

was suspecting both you and

havingfitz

, no?

Though, what do you think about

texcat

not really responding to our scumreads on them?

I still don't know what to respond to. A50 said yesterday that his scum read on me was just gut. Hard to respond to that. And lol I've definitely responded more than Fitz.

How about the fact that you've on every lynch wagon so far, and your reasons for voting people, to my knowledge, have been vague at best.

How about you give me your assessment on

profii

randomly voting and pushing you in between D2 with literally almost no prompt.

How about you actually ask

Almost50

on his scumread over you instead of writing it off as gut.

How about you do your own evaluations of reads right now, considering you seem to have been wrong on who's scum most of this game.

Um.

I thought havingfitz fosing literally the entire playerlist was sort of towny, so I'd probably say texcat.

And yeah I can go look at what Mathdino said but I very much doubt that it's possible to read Shadpearl's alignment from the mod's decision to replace Mathdino.

And I think Fitz fos'ing the entire playlist was scummy as hell. Those can't be his real reads. His top pick for SK was A50?? Really?

Exactly.

Havingfitz

is scum and you are the final scum to me, and nothing's really changed that.

Though, what do you think about

texcat

not really responding to our scumreads on them?

I don't think you've really given her much to respond to... it seems to me that the largest part of the case is PoE. And since I don't think that responding to scumreads on oneself is generally that necessary or productive, I don't really think anything of it.

Responding to someone's scumread IS productive. It gives valuable information pre and post flip that help deduce other people's alignments, imo.

And yeah, I feel like there's plenty of stuff for

texcat

to respond to.

1)

Why did she vote a claimed doc

2)

What was the point of this? 21 A little talk with

JaydragonKing

that didn't resolve anything?

3)

Oh look, 108, the mislynch-bait vote.

4)

620 and 621

texcat

unvotes, and immediately

JayDragonKing

votes for no reason; but he revotes for no reason again. 626

5)

694 - she wants to hammer a claimed doc.

6)

754 - I dare her to say I'm still her SK guess.

7)

794 - she never really commented on the selfvote when she decided to 'leave' it.

8)

844 - Like most of the time in this game,

texcat

only really forms a stance and vote when someone prompts her, only.

9)

899 - Weak handwave dismiss of

profii's

case on her.

10)

919 - Says that

profii and JaydragonKing

are connected; but provides no associative between them as a scumteam, and just says that

profii

is scum while not looking at the possibility he could've been SK.

11)

1117 - Seems to believe there's no chance at all of an NK on

Shadpearl

12)

1240 - Do I need to elaborate here? Her tune quickly shifts to - likely bussing - profii, and she's stating that 1 group of scum know what's going on and are happy? Does this really come out of town's mouth?

13)

1295 - Her PoE has no reasoning behind it.

The question though is, why would he fake reads like that? It would deprive him of any strong direction to push in as scum while also drawing attention to himself.

And yes, I have seen weird reads like that come from town before.

Because

havingfitz

thinks by being so apathetic and antitown, nobody's going to scumread him even though he seems to not give a damn about town winning this game.

Shadpearl and havingfitz have been prodded.

If a replacement comes in, my starting-to-grow apathy is going to double.

VOTE: texcat

How I'm voting right now:

1)

Voting the wagon with who I believe is town on it.

2)

Voting the scumread with the highest wagon.

[Taly]

UGH. FUCK.

-_- There's only 3 votes between

Almost50, myself, and Something_Smart

; but if

havingfitz

and

Shadpearl

is just going to fucking lurk out then what's the point in voting

texcat

, even though this should be today's lynch.

[Taly]

LMAO

It would be so funny if I ISO'ed the entire scumteam in 365

[Taly]

Hello. I'm very sorry. Please forgive my truancy. I will try to post later today.

<3

[Taly]

VOTE: Havingfits

If it literally comes down to nothing else, then I'm OK hammering

havingfitz

, and I'll express intent prior to that.

But why am I not switching votes at the moment?

Shadpearl

Lynching

havingfitz

before

texcat

is being mean to

Almost50!Doc

.

We are not being mean to the

IC

.

Town needs to consolidate.

Plus, if

havingfitz

is VLA and is SK, it'd be funny to see that he doesn't catch the deadline to shoot someone. XD

I mean, it could be a possibility on why we've only had 1 NK on N2/N4.

[Taly]

Eh... :/ I'm trying not be being tunnel-y again.

[Taly]

So much of this post is provably incorrect. I apologize about the length. The question I now have is about Taly. Is he just conf-biasing?

Are you just going to dismiss my views by suggesting I'm conf-biasing JUST LIKE

Kopherald

did last dayphase?

Conf-biasing is taking new information and strengthening someone's pre-existing beliefs on them.

By that definition; ME CONF-BIASING IS NOT TRUE.

I'm sorry, but since you've only acknowledged my existence in this game since the last dayphase, I'm telling you that I've had plenty of reasons to think Kopherald was scum

SOLELY BASED ON NEW INFORMATION

.

I wasn't sure of my read over him throughout D1 and D2, and I've townread him to a point then; I was less certain D3, but I believed he was scum based on PoE and NKA that obviously was proven wrong.

Is he intentionally trying to get another mislynch like yesterday?

What am I even reading?

So, you're blatantly calling me scum here; because you're saying that I'm

INTENTIONALLY

driving a mislynch, even though I'm literally the

ONLY

person in this game that's fully putting their thoughts in a case and attempting to use what they know as a means to gamesolve and lynch who they most definitively believe is scum!

The fact that you didn't change your vote or say anything else about this, says that this was to spread even

MORE WIFOM ON ME

, and make me a potential mislynch for town to lose.

And also, if you want to throw suspicion on me about

"intentionally-getting-a-mislynch"

, please look back at your

HORRID

accuracy in lynches this game and

TRY

to tell me you're

NOT

doing

JUST THAT.

Spoiler: Me Tearing Up The Rest of the Reply

How about the fact that you've on every lynch wagon so far, and your reasons for voting people, to my knowledge, have been vague at best.

So? How is that scummy? Because I don't know who is scum? Or because I agreed with town? I was pretty adamant in my reasons for being on the Profii wagon (lol even if I was adamantly on the Shadpearl wagon for a while.)

Because:

1)

You're not even re-evaluating your reads after flips where you're wrong, you've done this consistently.

2)

Your reasons for being adamant on the profii lynch? Was it because his fakeclaim was caught AND he was casting suspicion on you?

3)

You've shown no signs of pushing back on any of the wagons in this game to my understanding; you're going with the flow of the most popular lynch.

4)

You're not even trying to work with your townreads or what you believe to be town-entities in this game.

5)

Your vague reasoning puts less attention on you, makes misconstruing communication easier, and does not give a clear idea of your thoughts in the game.

I don't see your constant inaccuracy in this game to be a town-mistake... it feels like you're actively lynching people to stay in this game.

Also, I don't think you answered this:

So you're saying havingfitz probably killed Ausuka? Plus, Ausuka was suspecting both you and havingfitz, no?

How about you give me your assessment on

profii

randomly voting and pushing you in between D2 with literally almost no prompt.

I'm pretty sure I gave my opinion at the time that the vote was crap. It was Profii trying and failing to find a wagon.

Post the link where you stated this, and what made you think it wasn't scum-indicative? You never pushed him on it.

How about you actually ask

Almost50

on his scumread over you instead of writing it off as gut.

I thought A50 made it pretty clear that he's in a gut read tunnel. He hasn't asked me any questions. He has not engaged with me. Plus he said early in the game,

texcat I always scum read regardless, and Jimmy hasn't been in the game to begin with.

1)

First off, no. He didn't say it was a gut read, it was partially meta and him concluding you were most likely scum through PoE

2)

I'd doubt to even call

Almost50

tunneling here; more like catching scum.

3)

Even if it was a gut read and he's not asking questions or engaging with you, what's preventing YOU from asking and engaging with HIM?

4)

The quote you pulled was from D2 I believe, and thus irrelevant here.

How about you do your own evaluations of reads right now, considering you seem to have been wrong on who's scum most of this game.

Um.

I thought havingfitz fosing literally the entire playerlist was sort of towny, so I'd probably say texcat.

And yeah I can go look at what Mathdino said but I very much doubt that it's possible to read Shadpearl's alignment from the mod's decision to replace Mathdino.

And I think Fitz fos'ing the entire playlist was scummy as hell. Those can't be his real reads. His top pick for SK was A50?? Really?

I meant your read progression through the game and HOW being on multiple mislynches changed that...

And is

havingfitz

your only read? I guess you scumread me too, and townread

Almost50

because the WIFOM you planted on him didn't work?

Though, what do you think about

texcat

not really responding to our scumreads on them?

I don't think you've really given her much to respond to... it seems to me that the largest part of the case is PoE. And since I don't think that responding to scumreads on oneself is generally that necessary or productive, I don't really think anything of it.

Responding to someone's scumread IS productive. It gives valuable information pre and post flip that help deduce other people's alignments, imo.

I agree.

When there is something to respond to

. I'm trying to show where you've gone wrong. There is nothing for me to show A50.

And yeah, I feel like there's plenty of stuff for

texcat

to respond to.

And what about this has prevented you from trying to engage with

Almost50

? If he's so wrong and you townread him, then why aren't you trying to work with him and let him see your view?

1)

Why did she vote a claimed doc

I thought this was obvious and without going back to look I thought I said at the time. I didn't believe the claim. Boon always fake claims. I thought that TGP would have claimed doc, if the slot was really doc. And then there was the self-vote that looked like a scum claim. I can't imagine not voting for it.

I don't know

Boon

, but lynching a doc-claim is still stupid. You didn't even mention

Boon

in your reasons for not believing the claim.

So I doubt that was the reason you kept your vote on him.

TheGoldenParadox

had no interest or time in this game to claim doc; I don't recall

TGP

being pushed to L-1.

2)

What was the point of this? 21 A little talk with

JaydragonKing

that didn't resolve anything?

It was page 1! What was the point of anything on page 1??? You're really stretching here. And the point was that I didn't like Jaydragon saying that she was just going sheep.

JaydragonKing

rarely ever did anything outside of relieving any potential pressure on him.

Why was 108

Lalendra

a good person to change your vote on? You even said that

JaydragonKing

sheeped her, as I'm guessing was a reason you didn't like his push?

3)

Oh look, 108, the mislynch-bait vote.

Yep, I voted Lalendra for lying about Creature's activity. Is that supposed to be scummy??

How does someone lie about another person's activity?

Creature

wasn't really present, and there was a BS reason for people scumreading him out of the gate in the game.

And while

Lalendra

did vote and think

Creature

was scum for this; where was the lie here?

This makes no sense to me.

4)

620 and 621

texcat

unvotes, and immediately

JayDragonKing

votes for no reason; but he revotes for no reason again. 626

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. My vote had been on TGP, but I unvoted to wait for replacements. The vote in 621 was frustration at waiting. JayDragon's 622 followed mine, but was 7 hours later. Nothing was immediate in this part of the game. And yeah, JayDragon was scum, but if you're trying somehow to link me to JayDragon here, I don't get it.

I don't understand the vote pattern here and I don't understand your explanation; specifically since you were OK with lynching

TheGoldenParadox

despite replacements in 621 and didn't do anything to change your votes or thought after a replacement. 694

5)

694 - she wants to hammer a claimed doc.

6)

754 - I dare her to say I'm still her SK guess.

7)

794 - she never really commented on the selfvote when she decided to 'leave' it.

8)

844 - Like most of the time in this game,

texcat

only really forms a stance and vote when someone prompts her, only.

I've explained my thinking on FlavorLeaf more than once. And I disagree with this characterization of me not taking a stance. My stance on resolving the Profii/Shadpearl claim was clear. I think my stance on Fitz was clear yesterday and again today.

Then since you're so familiar explaining your thought process on

Flavor Leaf

, explain it again to me.

Your apparent scumread of me seems to have appeared when I'm pushing you. You voted

havingfitz

after I prompted you for a read this dayphase, and a few of your votes are based around replies to other people asking you for your thoughts.

9)

899 - Weak handwave dismiss of

profii's

case on her.

Weak handwave was all that "case" deserved.

So you admit to completely ignoring any potential reasoning against you, OK?

Hell, I pushed and acknowledged

profii's

terrible reasoning of his wagon on YOU much more than you did.

Why was this never a point to scumread/push/vote him, to you?

10)

919 - Says that

profii and JaydragonKing

are connected; but provides no associative between them as a scumteam, and just says that

profii

is scum while not looking at the possibility he could've been SK.

You seem desperate to try to tie me to Jaydragon. But Jaydragon was not even mentioned in this post. This was me responding to a question from

you

about a possible connection between Profii and

Jimmy

.

Oh, fuck. You're right. Point redacted, sorry.

OK, whatever.

11)

1117 - Seems to believe there's no chance at all of an NK on

Shadpearl

Huh? Is this the wrong post number? This post was me stating intent to hammer Profii before Profii's tracker claim.

I meant 1177.

12)

1240 - Do I need to elaborate here? Her tune quickly shifts to - likely bussing - profii, and she's stating that 1 group of scum know what's going on and are happy? Does this really come out of town's mouth?

Yes. Don't you think scum was enjoying Profii's tracker claim? This was me explaining to

you

why Profii's claim made no sense. Something you admitted you had overlooked when you later voted Profii in 1262.

Yeah, I overlooked because I didn't want people to quickhammer and I was waffling on my approach to this gamestate based on

Sando's

assessment. I also made it clear that I didn't like lynching any claims at all, period, but I conceded to when an inconsistency in

profii's

fakeclaim validity was found.

And yeah, I'm sure scum LOVED

profii's

tracker claim... because he was scum.

Also, don't try and suspect me for overlooking

profii's

fallacy after you posted 1177

You seemed pretty content on lynching

Shadpearl

instead of leaving him as a possibility for you to 'have-to-maybe' NK.

You still haven't explained each of your reads through PoE in D5.

[Taly]

To put it simply, if I agree equally with the arguments on both sides, then my vote comes down to a coin flip. -But my gutread for Texcat's late-game posts is Town so Havingfits is on the chopping block...

Town? Who IS scum then? Me? The claimed Doctor? S_S? The Mathdino slot? The Slot that basically cleared you? Or is it Taly? The one who has been the Town MVP all game?

You, know what?? I'm withdrawing my TR on Shad. He

could

be the SK here, and that "thing" could be interpreted another way.

Let's talk hypothetical theory: The SK is technically scumhunting for Mafia. They would consider Mafia to be "scum" too. Actually this explains why I have failed to see fitz as a scumster except for PoE. I almost always SR fitz at some point.

So, I'm sticking with the texcat lynch here, and suggest you lynch Shad next if I'm the NK. Of course, if I'm not then I will push it myself.

Please,

Almost50

, tell me how

havingfitz

is not scum to you in PoE; I need to see your full reasoning on this before the day ends.

I mean, look at it this way: Someone (Shad) who knows there to be 2 scums left, a Mafioso and a SK, and is clearing the ONLY logical option any townie in his place would auto-suspect. It directly points out to someone who is NOT town. I'm not sure is he suspects fitz to be the last Mafia (he's not, 100% of the time), or if he thinks it's texcat and still wants her around to make use of her kill tonight. Eitherway, Shad is the SK. texcat is the 3rd Mafia still.

I do see your point here. There can't be 5 town, so if he thinks

texcat

is more likely town overall,

Shadpearl

would believe one of

{Almost50, Taly, Something_Smart}

is scum.

But how I read 1469 is that

Shadpearl

thinks both

havingfitz and texcat

are scum; but isn't as sold on it as I am, because he says there's equal reasoning for voting either of them, and thinks

texcat

is more potentially town in the event he's wrong.

Which, I think could come from town, still. However, I'd like

Shadpearl

to answer this:

What are your reads, give a full readslist and provide reasons on the playerlist. There are 4 town. 1 SK. 1 Scum.

My biggest grievance for

SK-Shad

is the selfvote to

L-1

:
1181

Because to me, the same principle applies as with

Kopherald

.

Shadpearl-SK

would be playing against his wincon by submitting to his lynch in D3.

And it would just sound so dumb for

profii-scum

to fake-guilty

Shadpearl-scumbuddy.

I feel like there's a stronger associative argument with

texcat

being the last in the scumteam here.

~~~

I'm slightly less confident with

havingfitz-SK

, but I'm still set on the town being:

{Almost50, Something_Smart, Taly, Shadpearl}

Frankly, if Taly is the SK here (ir even if he is the last Mafioso) I don't mind forfeiting the game to him at all. That would be brilliant play and deserves to win.

That said, I do NOT think he is anything bu a devoted townie, so I'm not really playing against my win con when I totally exclude him from the lynch pool.

I don't want you to forfeit the game to me.

I want us both to win as town.

texcat's

arguing me for SK because she realizes that nobody else is near conftown based on play, claim, or some form of clearing.

She's voteparking on

havingfitz

because she wants a scapegoat, and

havingfitz

has been horrible at deflating any suspicion on him in this game.

[Taly]

Or is it Taly? The one who has been the Town MVP all game?

The SK could be Town MVP. Just saying.

So I'm guessing you think

havingfitz

is the last of the scumteam, and the buddy of

JayDragonKing and profii

?

Give me at least 5 associative tells that support your argument.

And give me 5 reasons on how I'm SK due to play.

I'm waiting.

[Taly]

Please, Almost50, tell me how havingfitz is not scum to you in PoE

I have always maintained that he

was

scum, but

only

by PoE. In the event Shad turns out to be scum, then -obviously- there's no reason for me to suspect fitz beyond that bc I'm fairly confident texcat is scum by play.

Oh, now I see what where you're coming from now.

Give me at least 5 associative tells that support your argument.

And give me 5 reasons on how I'm SK due to play.

I'm waiting.

? I'm a bit done with the

"this person is this"

or

"this person may be that"

without much stated reasoning.

I'm still kind of annoyed that I haven't been NKed in this game, and it's becoming more and more apparent that I'm being lynchbaited.

Plus, if

texcat

wants to place more uncertainty and suspicion on my slot, then she should make her reads and gameview clearer.

[Taly]

This is becoming ridiculous to me.

And I have no idea how the hell to make myself clearer anymore.

[Taly]

Almost50

, so

Shadpearl's

self-vote to L-1 in D3

((1181))

doesn't make you question

Shad-SK

?

[Taly]

:/ I see your point,

Something_Smart.

Though, I often to make it to MYLO/LYLO in games as town because I'm often lynchbait... I've even lost games where I've otherwise played GREAT towngames in my opinion, but the other person/people didn't want to hear me out, outside of the suspicion placed on me.

When I provide my thoughts so clearly; it's much easier for scum to muddy them, and that's how I've viewed

texcat

.

I just don't really know what to do at this point is to squeeze out as much clarity as I can find within

Shadpearl

and

havingfitz

, because my read on

texcat

has not changed, and to be honest, it probably won't despite her response.

I don't like that I feel almost fixed in my reads here, given I was wrong D4 and I felt near-fixed in my reads then.

But it's hard for me to sit down and not jump on conflicting fallacies in arguments I see, even when it's not beneficial. It's a bit of a habit, and it's something I've learned about myself through Mafia.

Almost50

, so

Shadpearl's

self-vote to L-1 in D3

((1181))

doesn't make you question

Shad-SK

?

It does. Thanks for reminding me.

You see, the problem with this game is it feels its started sometime before the fall of the Roman Empire (or is that the Persian??) and is still ongoing, so I forgot most of the "details" and only have the global feel of it intact still.

Seriously! Did you know Open 713, Open 714 and Open 717 have already ended? Did you know Open 723 is the next game on schedule?

Yeah, this game's not your normal

Open

. XD

I'm glad you feel stronger about

Shad-town

, I'm guessing?

P-Edit

On a game level, I agree with 1488's assessment, and that's why I pushed more deeply into

texcat's

thoughts.

[Taly]

If we collectively agree the townbloc is

{Almost50, Shadpearl, Taly, Something_Smart}

, or at the very least, believe

texcat

is more likely scum - then I see no point in furthering the day.

I don't want the nightphase to be extended on the account we're waiting for another replacement on

havingfitz's

slot. At that point, it seems pointless and hurts town more via apathy and having to catch someone up on the game when the slot is widely scumread/suspected.

[Taly]

Yes,

Something_Smart

and

Shadpearl

, I'm encouraging you both to join

Almost50

and

I

with our votes.

[Taly]

Havingfitz

has not been online since April 17th, I've checked.

There's no other decision that can be made prior to deadline where town can be as solidified as this; lynching

texcat

.

Unless

Almost50

is OK with hopping onto the

havingfitz

lynch, which I would hammer, as I've stated before - but I trust what he'd rather do here.

[Taly]

Official Vote Count 5.2

texcat (2) - Almost50, Taly
havingfitz (2) - texcat, Shadpearl

Not voting (2) - havingfitz, Something_Smart

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch

(expired on 2018-05-06 17:00:00)

This has not changed to my understanding.

[Taly]

Something_Smart

,

Shadpearl

Are we ready to end the day, and are we in sync with reads?

I'll hammer in a few hours.

[Taly]

Also, I greatly encourage you to protect yourself tonight,

Almost50

Idgaf if

texcat

sees this.

The probability of my mislynch is much lower if you're alive as well, and we cannot afford a mislynch tomorrow even if we are correct today.

[Taly]

And you're virtually an IC, and we're going into 4p mylo most likely tomorrow.

[Taly]

I'm good with a NL at 4p mylo - that will shed some more clarity on the playerlist, even though I have an extremely strong idea on who's the last of the scumteam.

((Which, is not a secret.))

I'm just having flashbacks to the games where I played hard, caught scum and got lynched in lylo/mylo as town, and lost:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64408

((Pegged scumduo here, but was hammered by town))

viewtopic.php?p=6792063&user_select%5B% ... 6#p6792063

((Pegged 1 scum here))

It just bothers me because I'm least likely to be NKed.

Literally, most of my town-losses are connected to surviving to MYLO, and more likely being mislynched than catching/missing scum.

So if I make it to 3p, I'm probably going to be WIFOMed to high hell.

~

I'll wait for

Mod

to answer question and, preferably,

Shadpearl

to post before I hammer.

[Taly]

viewtopic.php?p=6792063&user_select%5B% ... 6#p6792063

((Pegged 1 scum here))

You guys can save me my dignity and not read this game; I was excruciatingly terrible here in hindsight and this was when I was getting out of my

"noob"

stages.

If you do read this game, get ready for massive cringing.

~

Almost50

, you can do what you're most comfortable with, but I think you staying alive is best for town.

~

Eugh... I'm feeling a little impatient, I want

Shadpearl

to post so the townbloc can ALL be on the same wavelength, but there's nothing happening right now.

People are just waiting on me or

Something_Smart

to hammer.

[Taly]

D5

- Lynch

havingfitz

D6

- NL or Lynch

texcat

D7

- Lynch

texcat

?

[Taly]

I'll hammer after I eat and shower. LOL...

That's about as much time I'm willing to give at this point for anyone to say "no" to anything about this gamestate/plan.

[Taly]

I fucking love you

A50

[Taly]

VOTE: havingfitz

[Taly]

Sigh.

I had a whole post ready to launch against

Something_Smart

because I thought

texcat

and

Almost50

would be NKed N5.

Spoiler: My Post If D6 Mylo Was: Me, Shadpearl, Something_Smart

Ugh... This is my nightmare scenario.

On one hand; there's

Shadpearl

, who self-voted himself to L-1, and debatably, would have gamethrown if he were SK. Normally, this makes
me think

Shadpearl

is near conftown, but

Shadpearl

is new to the site and the rules here; so I wouldn't be surprised if he thought
a self-vote did not conflict with an SK wincon.

Sigh... Me entertaining

Shadpearl-SK

sounds dumb at this point... But I've been so wrong with my reads post-D3 that I'm just lost...

On the other hand, there's

Something_Smart

, who's slot is borderline fucking unreadable because theres FOUR people replacing in/out of
that slot. Individually,

S_S

has literally been available D4 and D5, but has provided 0 insight into this game.

I townblocc'ed them both thinking I just about solved the game.
Nobody I was suspecting D4 and D5 gave me a reason to think they were town.

With that said, it's been 2 days, and I'm still a bit frustrated and confused to see

havingfitz

flip town. :/

I genuinely feel the blame for mislynching

Kopherald and havingfitz

, but I have no clue how they thought they were responding town-like to their pressure. I've been very clear with my thought process, and nobody except

Almost50

has given me worthwhile engagement since D3. Yes, I'll go as far as to say that

Almost50

and I have really been the only pro-town people in this game since then.

Ausuka

to a lesser degree, but still. :/

I've made myself. Very. Clear. On. My. Stance.

And most everyone really gave me nothing beyond

"this argument is not compellling," or "this person you scumread, I think is towny"

.

Something_Smart

, you've made it known that you didn't find any scumvibes from

havingfitz or Kopherald

, but you never combated the wagon or idea of lynching them. -_- You say you're good at townhunting but you've replaced in late-game and have made no assertion of scum at all. Even when you "accepted" the townbloc, you never pushed

texcat

, and you never batted an eyelash

Shadpearl's

way, assuming you truly believed

havingfitz and Kopherald

were town. Your reads and view of the game are vague, and you had plenty of time to read through this thread to come to a semblance of your reads.

I'm having a hard time seeing

Shadpearl

killing

Jaydragonking or texcat

.

But I can definitely see

Mathdino

killing

Jaydragonking

, especially since he started D2 fucking voting me based off the idea I

"distanced"

myself from

JaydragonKing

. Also,

S_S

, I can see you saving your NK to take out

scum!texcat

. -_- You scumread her, I'm guessing, but you didn't do anything about it.

VOTE: Something_Smart

Time to gamble.

~

I can tell I'm likely going to be mislynched here, to that, I say I tried to gamesolve in this game, and I was just inaccurate. Sorry
town.

If I'm wrong on

Something_Smart

and I'm basically the sole reason town loses this game, then I don't know what to say, honestly. I've
ran multiple scenarios through my head and this is the closest thing I can come to a conclusion.

My efforts seemed to have gone to waste.

Almost50

was the only person engaging with me post-D3 much at all... I

WANT

to feel bad for mislynching

Kopherald and havingfitz

, but I had no reason to townread them based on their gameplay.

Something_Smart

did well.

And for the record; I

DID

originally push

Doomfeathers

D1, and would've cased against

Mathdino

had he not replaced out.

This was a fun game, thank you again for modding

Davesaz

!

...But I'm conflicted from feeling like I played horribly, and feeling like I played

more pro-town

than most of the town playerlist.

[Taly]

ehhh... I'm not without fault either.

I began sucking progressively more since D2.

[Taly]

Yeah, I'm surprised. I though

texcat

was the Mafia and

Something_Smart

was the SK.

Texcat

, did you really think I was Mafia?... I'm not sure why you didn't shoot

Shadpearl

or

Something_Smart

to try and take out the last mafia.

[Taly]

When it's 2:1:1 always lynch town

I... can actually see this working, and this may be the only time I'd ever self-vote. Forcing the killers to take their chances on shooting a Doctor or kill each other would've been great.

Even without a doctor, it would've been interesting.

Though, I'm not sure if town would've auto-lost at 1:1:1, leading to an SK-Mafia draw.

~

Can the Mafia PT and Night Actions list be sent?

[Taly]

LOL WOW.

I was protected every night except for N5.

I have no clue why

Almost50

protected

Something_Smart

though.

[Taly]

I'm not sure why

Sando

suspected

havingfitz

if he got no result N2.

Was it to ward off the idea he was a tracker? Or was it because he thought

havingfitz

just didn't make the kill?

[Taly]

Or like.

S_S

doesn't shoot.

And we all happily-tied-ever-after.

[Taly]

Yeah, I'm surprised. I though

texcat

was the Mafia and

Something_Smart

was the SK.

Texcat

, did you really think I was Mafia?... I'm not sure why you didn't shoot

Shadpearl

or

Something_Smart

to try and take out the last mafia.

I thought you were more dangerous to me than mafia was.

LMAO.

OMG, thanks so much. What a great compliment.

[Taly]

lol At least I discouraged a scumwagon on me through wallposts and bitchiness.