Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

Getting caught up.

[LicketyQuickety]

Postie (Team Cuddly)

wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Lycanfire (eddie cane)
Llamarble (DEFCON)
Gamma Emerald (Relaxed Nature)
Cogito Ergo Sum (God Save the Black Goo)
Marquis (Make Papa Proud)
Tchill13 (Chillplay Bombahskiies)
EddieFenix (Queue Agents)
ActionDan (Who is John Galt?)
Thestatusquo (Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy)
Dunnstral (Backhanded Remarks)
LicketyQuickety (Spam Squad)
momo (Sauciety)

northsidegal (Serious Business)

rn

This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not liking how nsg solely focuses on the postie responses and that feels solid enough to go off of.

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

so you think that i'm both tryharding and that i'm trying to coast by solely focusing on questions?
don't you think it's a little early in the game to be saying that, especially given that like four people have posted so far?

not sure if all of my teammates will be reading this game but i know a few will and will probably share their thoughts with me.

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

what difference does it make between helping him out with his pressure on you and voting him to put pressure on him? there's nothing to say that following him is the "logical" thing to do rather than pressuing him. i assumed he didn't have anything because, looking over your posts myself, there really wasn't anything there that could reasonably be interpreted as a scumslip. sure,

maybe

being the first to the thread opening could be interpreted that way, but i put more weight into awkward rvses being scum indicative than that tell anyways.

this is really forced.

So are these TRs or SRs of these players?

[LicketyQuickety]

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

Given I am the captain of our team, thinking about what this means, it means we are fairly disorganized. IDK what of my teammates are reading this game or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

For the record nsg is scum-tryharding as opposed to postie town-tryharding. The difference is in the reactiveness (?) or general gist of that

NSG looks like NSG here. What you'd call scum-tryharding I'd call NAI. But I 100% disagree with your postie assessment and think as NSG as said, it comes off as forced. "forced" really isn't doing it justice actually, it's more like a cross-examination that where any one line of inquiry splits into two arbitrarily ad nauseam.

I like this post here by Dan.

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I wonder if we win by lynching EddieFenix and Marquis and Postie. Wouldn't be surprised.

Worst post of the thread so far.

What is the point of this post at all?

[LicketyQuickety]

i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).

Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?

he forces a read to a) pretend like he's generating useful content and b) stagnate things by ending rvs early. moreover, i think in general a forced entrance like that is just more likely to come from self-conscious scum than from town. that's not to say that i believe that he's necessarily scum or that any of those were necessarily his strategy – just that i think it's likely enough to warrant moving my vote while we're still in rvs.

Alright, I'm not convinced this is a scum post as you are still relatively new to the site and thus, the game. Care to talk some things through with me?

Why would Llama want to attract so much attention so early on as you've mentioned? As scum it could be a really bad play in an attempt to draw suspicion on Postie, Llamarble knows whoever he'd have to play this perfectly as to not risk it backfiring. A very dodgy move as scum unless he's intentionally trying to have people think he can't be scum for that exact reason. As town, it could be an attempt to get this moving and test reactions, or he could legitmately have a reason to suspect Postie right now. For these reasons I don't particulary lean either way on thiese actions of his, though gun to head I'd say town.

This brings me to my next point.

How is generating content stagnating the game. The RVS is named that, because it's, well, random. Random votes don't generate alignment-indicative content, anything moving away from the RVS is something that is generating content from which we can try to guess people's alignments. I don't really think your second point holds up, do you see what I mean?

This seems pretty flat to me...

Anyone else think so?

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, I am caught up, feel free to fire questions at me.

Is this a scumclaim. What make you so special that anyone needs to ask you instead of the other way around --maybe it's your catch-up posts, let's investigate-- are you scum?

So I ask people to ask me questions and the best you can come up with is "Are you Scum?"

I thought your OP was incredibly Scummy, but I held off judgement on that because I was only working off one post.

Why did I say people can ask me questions?
Because People don't understand what i am saying a lot of the time. And since IDK what people understand about what I am saying and what I am not, I suggest people ask me questions so that my thought process is more open with people.

This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.

Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.

This shows your bias towards how you generally see these players in relation to what alignment they could be and nothing more. That said, you are all over the place and I can see where this would come from Scum trying to WIFOM Town into oblivion.

Which is why you propel the wifom, place it more prominently.

So are these TRs or SRs of these players?

Not a good sign if you can't tell and don't want to find out specifically, instead post a general 'wut'.

I find it slightly odd that you quote the last thing I said to ask me if I am Scum and then double back to analyze what I actually said earlier and try to infer a motivation behind it. This tells me that you are Scum reading me before actually gathering any information on me, which is Scummy because it shows that your trying to sort me is not in earnest.

VOTE: Sauce

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It's a stylistic thing, unlike your vote on me, which is supposed to infer that you didn't like my OP, as if you're unsure about whether it wasn't enough to say that. Maybe it wasn't enough to seem like something a townie might say. I think you might be right.

How much experience do you have playing mafia? Not just asking about your experience on this site.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?

Or is it just me that I think that's weird.

Asking for four friends.

Well, it's something I can take under consideration, yeah. But IDK if you are Scum or not and as such, IDK if you are trying to manipulate things whether the info you give is legit or not. That's kinda where I am with your post.

[LicketyQuickety]

Is sauce an axlegreaser alt?

Can't be, Alts are going to be represented as Mains.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is it weird that I responded to a thought you had and then you stated you were caught up and that you were open for questions but completely ignored that like the LAST POST had been a thought directed at you?

Or is it just me that I think that's weird.

Asking for four friends.

Well, it's something I can take under consideration, yeah. But IDK if you are Scum or not and as such, IDK if you are trying to manipulate things whether the info you give is legit or not. That's kinda where I am with your post.

Whats the motivation for me lying to you about that, outside of the possibility that me and llamarble are scum together?

I didn't say you lied. I said you could be trying to manipulate things whether what you said was accurate or not and I don't know one way or another.

[LicketyQuickety]

Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).

[LicketyQuickety]

Don't like how fast the Marquis wagon got going, especially when not everyone has even checked in yet (as far as I am aware).

Making it harder for scum to just ease into the game seems like a good thing to me. What downside do you see to the Marquiswagon?

Too focussed on a single slot.

But really, IDK if Scum in this case is smart enough to hop on a quick accumulating Scum wagon knowing the wagon is likely to dissipate at some point. Seems unlikely if this was a normal game, but it's not a normal game because there is a lot more info pretty much everyone has access to. Ultimately tho, going by Occam's Razor, Marqu is prolly more likely to be Town based on wagonomics at this point. Only way I can see Marquis getting these votes this fast if they are Scum is by pure chance.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now

very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.

Why is that? Unless you are just hinting at some surface level association BS I don't get this comment.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not associative.
Right now I am thinking Marquis + Shea + Lycan
Re: Marquis:
Overall he's been here but not engaged enough
I don't like his laugh in post 30 immediately after he gets voted
I don't like his use of the team mafia format (mentions teammate but only theater comes of it, asking about others' teammates and who will read is information I think scum would especially seek)
Post 36 is the most interesting contribution he has, but it's treated as an aside ("for the record") and not pursued further. Well, actually it is. 42 part A and 48 part B are fine.

I'm curious about him asking me to unvote postie and about the null because want it to be null. Elaboration on those would be cool.

What is your (or your teams) read on chill?

[LicketyQuickety]

speaking of questions and lq, lq i don't believe you ever answered my question.

What was your question?

[LicketyQuickety]

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but

I can understand some suspicion on Postie as some of my team members have already warned me they're jolly good at playing scum, enjoy it, and some already want me to vote her.

Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site. Your team members can get stuffed.
Also "team members" plural? The only who should remember that game apart from you is Espe.

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

[LicketyQuickety]

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.

[LicketyQuickety]

I thought you were Scum here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Otherwise, was that your first Scum game?

That was my first scum game, yes.

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Put it this way:
If you believe Llamarble hasn't found anything and is fishing for reactions, it makes sense to help him out by voting me or pretending you know what it is or even just staying quiet and letting things play out.
If you believe Llamarable really believes they've found something obvscummy, the logical thing to do is to ask what it is, in case it actually is something that makes sense.
You did neither or these things and instead instantly assumed he couldn't have found anything and attacked him for it. In what world does that make sense? In one where you know he can't have a good reason, because you know I'm town.

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

Let's us know early she's voting weurgts but moves it to marquis shortly after voting weurgts a second time.

The post about the 2 reactions you "should" have pinged me.

If what Postie is saying about themselves as Scum is True, why the fuck does their team put Postie in a Scum role?

[LicketyQuickety]

-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?

Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.

Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...

[LicketyQuickety]

Not seeing Scum Postie here and IDK why people are SRing them.

Going here to see what happens:

VOTE: chill

[LicketyQuickety]

i have some questions from myself and from my team:

@dan – mathdino wants to know why you're townreading quick, he thinks quick was the most likely of his team to pick scum.

@gamma – most of your reads seem to come from other players – do you have any reads of your own?

@quick – thoughts on the votes on the marquis wagon?

@marquis – who are you townreading?

That's a laugh.. I've never played with mathdino, how the hell would he know?

Like what do I think of specific votes on marquise? Which ones do you want me to look at? I was doing a meta analysis, not looking at specific instances.

[LicketyQuickety]

by the way, anyone else feel like 179 is a really weird thought? it's hard to put into words – it kind of feels like a pointless thing to say / comment on, maybe.

I was wondering who else was going to pick up on that.

-cracks knuckles- So here's where I sit. I really don't like the fact that Lycanfire just walks in, drops a vote and then walks out without so much as a "hi, bye, I'm caught up," nothing. So you can insert the grandpa from the Simpsons entering and exiting the building gif here and I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan. Marquis is going in my null section for now. I'll do a double over later tonight and get with my team on things for business going forward. ActionDan has town vibes. Marble is on my town list for now.

dunnstral did the exact same thing – did you not notice or is there something different about the two to you?

Tbh, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Dunn joins Lycan in the "further needed explanations for that vote" pool.

Those votes prolly mean next to nothing unless they are Scum, so...

Care to further explain why you're thinking that way?

If they are Town, it's just RVS. If they are Scum, they could have some investment for manipulating things with their votes.

[LicketyQuickety]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Okay, let's start with this: how do you envision me answering that in the first place?

[LicketyQuickety]

Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.

Thanks for telling us you have zero meta on chill.

also i'd like for you to build on this.

I would like to take a reasonable stab that someone bring this to discussion as well.

I think Chill is still very much within his Scum range, is the TL;DR version.

Chill is good at blending in as Scum and tends to make his reads match what benefits him at the time he makes those reads. If someone is TRing him, he may TR them back. If it looks like a Townie is taking pressure, he may throw shade on them. Basic Scum play 101, but he does it in a way that doesn't look too opportunistic and generally gives just enough reason for the reads so people don't question his reads. I said as much in a different game I played with him.

[LicketyQuickety]

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Honesly yeah I agree on this post being weird. I was able to make something of Dunnstral's vote, and I never said I knew Llamar was town.

That requires an inference into the context that Dunn was using. We can't assume that that inference is true because there was no explanation with Dunn's vote on Marquise, which drops the context down to zero.

[LicketyQuickety]

Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.

Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too

(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)

He likes CES calling it out.

He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.

This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.

I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.

My town pile is postie eddie sauce.

Tell reck I don't have the signature I have fo no reason. And there's no way he can understand that quote by Nacho because reck has never played a single game with me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.

[LicketyQuickety]

What do you think about the parts of the post (most of it) that aren't directed at you?

Well that's an interesting way to sidestep what I said.

What I see is lack of consistency into the methodology to get the reads that Reck is representing. In the first case, Reck is using a mind meld read. In the second, he is using a read based on play. And in the third he is using a meta read. So it's quite confusing why Reck is using three methods to get 3 different reads.

[LicketyQuickety]

What do you think about the parts of the post (most of it) that aren't directed at you?

Well that's an interesting way to sidestep what I said.

What I see is lack of consistency into the methodology to get the reads that Reck is representing. In the first case, Reck is using a mind meld read. In the second, he is using a read based on play. And in the third he is using a meta read. So it's quite confusing why Reck is using three methods to get 3 different reads.

Do you actually think its unusual to use different things to understand your surroundings as they become relevant?

No, I don't. But I do think that it shows that Reck either doesn't know what he is talking about because he is forced to use different methodologies instead of keeping the methodologies the same, or you are Scum and that is the reason for the different methodologies.

In short, Reck is using different tactics, so the goal must be the thing that is the same. See here to know what I am talking about: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69491
Basically, I think it's a bit more Scummy than Towny the way Reck goes about making these statements.

[LicketyQuickety]

I disagree I guess. Frequently when I'm reading through a game I note things and end up with a list of things that bear no relation to each other. Its not because I'm "switching methodologies" or whatever, its that my methodology is reading the posts and seeing what things stick out to me. For instance, if I player I know well is playing very differently from how I would expect them to I take note of it, but I would also take note of posts by that player that seem to have town motivation behind them. I think most people play this way? I don't want to get too far down the theory rabbit hole but this is game relevant so I do want to talk about it

You have just moved the goal posts. We were not talking about how you get reads but how Reck came to the conclusion to the reads he gave. You don't what Reck's methodologies are for getting reads and there is evidence of the fact you didn't have this conversation because you said you assume most people play the same way you do without mentioning that Reck said he gets reads the same way you do.

I am getting more and more suspicious of you, shea, because you seem to be bringing up points with me only to drop them later when I say something you are not expecting. It's the hesitation that I see in your responses that tell me that you either feel I am on to something or don't know how to respond. Given you never talked Reck in what I said in reply to Reck, this leads me to believe you are not hesitant because you don't know how to respond (because otherwise you would have talked to Reck about what I said), but rather that you are Scum trying to give a believable spin on things.

FoS Shea

[LicketyQuickety]

I disagree I guess. Frequently when I'm reading through a game I note things and end up with a list of things that bear no relation to each other. Its not because I'm "switching methodologies" or whatever, its that my methodology is reading the posts and seeing what things stick out to me. For instance, if I player I know well is playing very differently from how I would expect them to I take note of it, but I would also take note of posts by that player that seem to have town motivation behind them. I think most people play this way? I don't want to get too far down the theory rabbit hole but this is game relevant so I do want to talk about it

You have just moved the goal posts. We were not talking about how you get reads but how Reck came to the conclusion to the reads he gave. You don't

talk about

what Reck's methodologies are for getting reads and there is evidence of the fact you didn't have this conversation because you said you assume most people play the same way you do without mentioning that Reck said he gets reads the same way you do.

I am getting more and more suspicious of you, shea, because you seem to be bringing up points with me only to drop them later when I say something you are not expecting. It's the hesitation that I see in your responses that tell me that you either feel I am on to something or don't know how to respond. Given you never talked Reck in what I said in reply to Reck, this leads me to believe you are not hesitant because you don't know how to respond (because otherwise you would have talked to Reck about what I said), but rather that you are Scum trying to give a believable spin on things.

FoS Shea

talk about

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

I dont believe anyones self meta, especially when its presented in as an attempt to answer an attack on them.

a) I don't think I have written off marquis as null. Or rather, my position on marquis is more nuanced than that. I declared him to be pretty null on the content of his posts alone, specifically in response to the wagon and LLamarble saying he was very scummy. If you read my post about team commentary, I note that Will thinks he's a lean town, whereas I think that is too strong, and I find that his lack of existence today and lack of response to the wagon makes me think the pressure is in a good spot, which makes me null-scum read him. Giving some deference to my teammate who has a lot more experience with him I am not pushing him right now, but I don't want that wagon to go anywhere until he comes back.

Will never gave a read on marqu here:

Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.

Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too

(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)

He likes CES calling it out.

He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.

This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.

I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.

My town pile is postie eddie sauce.

Why not?

[LicketyQuickety]

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

What do you think this is?

Misread, sorry.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

IDK, man. I think you are Town, but TvS conversations are really fucking hard to identify.

[LicketyQuickety]

Sorry I've been fairly absent, I've got exams this week. Final one is on thursday, so I'll be active once they're all out of the way. Tomorrow I've got some time to catch-up, 'll make sure to provide some input then.

Going to hold you to that.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ you've dropped off the conversation we were having. Is there anything else you want to follow up on about it or are satisfied for now?

What is there to discuss?

I made a play and now Town has to react to it.

[LicketyQuickety]

You didn't respond to my last response. I thought you might.

What are you even talking about?

What did you say that I really need to comment on?

[LicketyQuickety]

I am so confused. You said you had a problem with me and said you thought I was shifting the goal posts and then I wrote a response to that to try to explain where my head was at. I would have thought you to at the very least be interested in that response? Idk. I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing most of the time so fuckin' just ignore me I guess I'll be over in this corner babbling like an idiot.

Well, I mean, where would the conversation stop? It has to stop at some point, right? Otherwise you could have a conversation that would never end. I chose to end the conversation at that point and see what other people have to say about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

Why didn't you take issue with this before?

Because I wasn't focussed on you at the time, I was focussed on other things/people.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.

Yeah, you have fired from the hip an awful lot, so I think I am just going to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.

[LicketyQuickety]

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

i think this is a mistake, and i think you made the same mistake in your initial analysis of the wagon – just because dunnstral didn't say anything else or other people didn't make a lot of comments on their votes, that doesn't mean that there's nothing to analyze. the lack of comment is information in itself. i agree with others in that your analysis in 199 is largely superficial, but i'm not entirely sure how it relates to your alignment as of yet.

OK, really tho, if you want to take that angle, you are already assuming a Town motivation for Dunn, when there is no indication of such. You can't read into naked votes in terms of motivation because it lacks any sort of internal context. What's worse than just assuming Dunn is Town voting a SR, is to say Dunn is Bussing. I mean that is such a leap of logic, it's not even funny. Like where is the evidence for that, at all?

Now if someone wants to point out an error of logic I have made in stating that you can't analyze naked votes, then I expect a full explanation as to how you can assume someone making a naked vote is Town with regards to the context of the vote and what is happening ITT.

This is all I can really do to analyze Dunn's vote on Marqu:

Marq randomly votes North.
Marq bitches about the game which is evidence that their previous vote was just a random vote on someone who had tied the amount of posts as someone else.
Postie asks Marqu why they voted north. Postie had voted North pretty much as soon as North entered the thread which was a single post before Marqu's naked vote.
Marqu says "prolly the same reason you did" which further implies the vote was random considering it's still RVS at this point.
Marqu makes an completely ambiguous reads list considering they had Postie at the top and North at that bottom and everyone else in the middle as Null. This is Marqu trying to get the game going IMO, which is not necessarily a Town tell, but is more of an indication of Town than Scum.
Then there is some surface level observation by Postie and North. It's still RVS.
Then Dunn votes Marqu.

The only pattern I can see is that people are voting active players and that's about all I can really say about it. It doesn't say anything about anyone's alignments at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

Completely disagree. Your vote should be on GE, not Postie.

Why GE? Postie

feels

like they're too worried about the wording of their post.

IDGAF what something feels like. Feels means pretty much nothing in this game.

If you can say exactly what Postie said that makes you feel that way, and it has some solid backing on it, I'll reconsider. But just stating something feel a certain way means pretty much nothing to me.

And North had the exact interpretation that I mean, and the fact that they are point that out is a decent indication that they are Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.

Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?

Mulch says I've been Townie and that I should not be read based on tone. He also says that he was pissed off when he made the original comment.

[LicketyQuickety]

I would never use this argument because it lacks anything concrete, but Mulch said that Llama should fuck off with their SR on us.

Did he give a reason for his reaction? If not, can you ask him? Does he think you've been particularly towny?

Mulch says I've been Townie and that I should not be read based on tone. He also says that he was pissed off when he made the original comment.

He also said first that I should be read based on my style of play, which I think is more accurate than reading me on tone because I believe I am very easy to read based on tone if you have decent meta on me. That said, my playstyle has changed a bit. I can link games to show this. The change I have tried to make is to not be as much of a jerk, to not fire from the hip as much and think more about the conclusions I am making before I make them, and try not to get so emotionally invested in games.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ I was afraid you had gotten more pleasant to play with since our last encounter lol. Her posts seem very methodical. Also what's the point in not giving postie scum if they're bad at scum but can be coached through the game?

What do you mean they seem more methodical? This is the same thing as saying Posties post's feel a certain way. I have no idea what you are talking about unless you show your work. Otherwise I am going to do what newbs do and look to see if I can see the angle that Posties posts look methodical and then I would ofc see that angle and think you are right.

Postie could be being coached. I am not ruling that out. It's especially true if Postie is on RC's team. I already thought of that, I just didn't comment on it because it's pretty much impossible to prove.

[LicketyQuickety]

Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.

OK, so why do you, Postie, have an unpopular opinion?

[LicketyQuickety]

Didn't Marquise say they were going to be around today? What happened there? And their wagon is now collapsed. I expect some good posts from Marqu.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.

Good to see you're taking a step back to think on things.

NSG vs LQ is TvT to me. I'd like at least a 6 person town block (the 3 that are on there + LQ, Marble, and NSG if they would be so kind to join us) to turn up the heat on that GE wagon, please and thank you.

North I have no problem being on the Town block. Not sold on Llama tho.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Llama has so far been a vary chaotic player. As such, I think those sorts of players are the type you can't get a solid read on right away. That's why I am hesitant to put them in a Town core. It's not even that I SR Ll, it's that I don't feel comfortable giving a solid read on that slot yet, if that makes sense.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: marquis

[LicketyQuickety]

Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.

Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?

LQ, same question.

Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.

What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.

I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.

As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.

Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.

Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?

LQ, same question.

Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.

What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.

I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.

As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.

Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.

-whacks with logic stick- no lurker hunts day 1! That's the easy way out.

Normally, I would agree with not going after lurkers D1 and hold off until D2... But...

This is not a normal game. This is a game within a game of meta information. As such, I am not really going after lurkers, but going after the players who are producing the least amount of content, or in otherwords, the players who are providing the least amount of information for the meta game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.

Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?

LQ, same question.

Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.

What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.

I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.

As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.

Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.

-whacks with logic stick- no lurker hunts day 1! That's the easy way out.

Normally, I would agree with not going after lurkers D1 and hold off until D2... But...

This is not a normal game. This is a game within a game of meta information. As such, I am not really going after lurkers, but going after the players who are producing the least amount of content, or in otherwords, the players who are providing the least amount of information for the meta game.

-whacks with logic stick again- Day 3 OF 14. I'll admit that I was rushing to get a town block together and formed. Bad Eddie -whacks self with logic stick-. However, right now, this game is a crawl of a game. On one end, that's fine for folks like me who have chaos going on irl to be able to manage a slow crawl like this. I slogged thru one of my mates games in a night and wanted to punch people by the end because of how it was. It's also why I am ok with giving time for those people who are producing the least amount of content to get their asses in here to produce content. Giving it the "marathon, not a sprint" mentality, because IRL stuff trumps forum game stuff (for the 18+ crowd).

You are ignoring the amount of information that people have access to. I can, for example, ask someone on my team to ISO Marquis and have them give a read on that player. So now all the sudden I have a confirmed Town that I can bounce things off of. When a player provided zero information in a game at almost the 72 hour marker, then that is something that needs to be addressed IMO.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like ffs, we have now 15 pages of hard interaction to go off of I don't understand how you guys think the most fruitful course of action is to jump on the guy who is not even here.

Mike, what do you think of my attacks on gamma emerald? More to the point, what do you think of ADs case and NSGs response to it? What are your positions on these slots?

LQ, same question.

Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.

What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet. What's more, is it's very easy to say "there are other people who are actually Scummy" but on average I would say when people make that argument, it ends up with a Town lynch anyways, thus, it's not beneficial to us.

I am on the fence on GE. When I look at his vote patterns it strikes me pretty surprisingly as Townie mindset. The blatant OMGUS on you after going after Dunn struck me as something that much more often comes from Town. That said, as I have said about Llama, this makes him a chaotic player and as such I feel the need to reserve my read on that slot until later in the game.

As far as CES goes (since I have yet to speak on them), their actual content strikes me as Townie, it's just that there is not enough of it to give a decent read there.

Lycan is Def someone I could get on board with a wagon on - same goes for Dunn. Yes, I am going on a lurker hunt atm because I think this brings a net gain to Town going into D2.

-whacks with logic stick- no lurker hunts day 1! That's the easy way out.

Normally, I would agree with not going after lurkers D1 and hold off until D2... But...

This is not a normal game. This is a game within a game of meta information. As such, I am not really going after lurkers, but going after the players who are producing the least amount of content, or in otherwords, the players who are providing the least amount of information for the meta game.

-whacks with logic stick again- Day 3 OF 14. I'll admit that I was rushing to get a town block together and formed. Bad Eddie -whacks self with logic stick-. However, right now, this game is a crawl of a game. On one end, that's fine for folks like me who have chaos going on irl to be able to manage a slow crawl like this. I slogged thru one of my mates games in a night and wanted to punch people by the end because of how it was. It's also why I am ok with giving time for those people who are producing the least amount of content to get their asses in here to produce content. Giving it the "marathon, not a sprint" mentality, because IRL stuff trumps forum game stuff (for the 18+ crowd).

You are ignoring the amount of information that people have access to. I can, for example, ask someone on my team to ISO Marquis and have them give a read on that player. So now all the sudden I have a confirmed Town that I can bounce things off of. When a player provided zero information in a game at almost the 72 hour marker, then that is something that needs to be addressed IMO.

You can't rely on someone from your team to give you a perfect confirmed read, when the players (plural) on your team may have a conflicting read (example: my team: Mastina - has Postie scum. Bulb has Postie town. I see both sides, so I sit at NULL until I have Mastina back). He's L3 right now (If memory serves). We have the pressure and it's like triggering beetlejuice with certain players when their name comes up as a "this person needs content". We only need to find 2 scum to win. If we DON'T like what he has to say by, or for that matter any of the lurkers that aren't giving content, I'm going to give them til day 7-8 (irl) to get their butts in here and get posting something, then we string up players of that ilk. Marathon. Spell it with me. M.A.R.A.T.H.O.N.

You misunderstood what I said. I said I would have a confirmed Town to bounce things off of, not that I would just go "yup, Creature says Eddie is Town, he must be Town." It adds information and perspective to things, but I didn't say in any way that it makes things definite.

You do have a fair point about waiting till half D1 is over until we go after lurkers though.

[LicketyQuickety]

oops i lied i took melatonin see yall in 8 hrs

Melatonin regulates your sleep schedule, it doesn't make you tired.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ

What's up with posts 92 and 308?

I've done a lot in this game besides just my interaction with Shea. You focussing on solely that is kinda cherry picking I think.

But to answer your question, all you have to do is see this post:

you realize that the entire middle block of what you quoted was just the playerlist as it appears in-order, right?

My guess is that you either didn't see the pattern that Marquis saw themselves, or you didn't think I saw that post by North, or you thought I would be too embarrassed to admit that I didn't see the pattern there. I think it's the later.

FoS

Lycan

[LicketyQuickety]

Lycanfire:

His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.

His question to me I don't think is a legit way to sort me considering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scum you have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.

Not only that, but in 225 he just assumed Llama was doing a slayers gambit of some sort as opposed to just thinking Llama is firing from the hip (which can come from Town and Scum alike), which IIRC Llama neither confirms nor denies which makes his vote on ECS superflux.

Given he's completely wrong about my motivation for doing things, I think it's more than likely he has done this with other people as well. Misinterpreting someone's motives and just calling their motives Town or Scum, without really digging any deeper than behavioral analysis drops his game short and in my experience this comes from Scum more often than Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

what were your motivations for that conversation with me? it felt like you were trying to see if you could poke around and find traction to start getting a wagon on me, but no one jumped on it so you abandoned it and moved on. you've thrown a lot of shade my way but have avoided attacking me directly. I think that's kind of what lycan was getting at, and I think its pretty clearly true.

so I'll ask you this: are you scum reading me, and if so: why arent you voting me?

You realized you've put your own spin on my motivation without considering things like how I approach the game in general right? Does no one read wiki's anymore? You know I go by Quick, go read that wiki to find out why I am pressing you.

I am not necessarily SRing you, no. I am trying to get a read on you and poking you is one way to do that. I consider you Null at this point in time. Last time I gave you a TR you ended up being Scum so I am not as quick to label you as Town this time around. I'll have to review what people said after I threw some accusations your way.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

[LicketyQuickety]

I consider what people say about their play, but I don't let people tell me why they're doing the things they do because people lie. You know damn well I know you're quick and I believe I've told you that I've read your wiki, but I also recall you have something of a poor memory, so I forgive you for not remembering that.

The problem with your actions is that the things you're doing also have significant scum motivations. Regardless of if you think you're doing them for other reasons, I'm not in your head, and I can't just trust you.

And I also am starting to be pretty sure you're scum because you're poking and drawing almost no reasonable conclusions. You start long discussions with me about nonsense about how reck is using different tools to find reads, and then disengage as soon as I try to explain. That's the biggest problem here. You're poking, but you don't seem to care about the responses to your pokes. At least not from the people you're poking. You seem to be singularly interested in the responses of other players, which makes me think you're more interested in finding where you can find an easy lynch, and not concerned about finding the correct lynch. This squares quite nicely with your vote on marquis also, which you have not fully explained after naked voting. It's nice to be on the highest vote getter who happens to not be posting much.

Actually, literally all the votes on marquis right now are atrocious.

You clearly have no idea how I play Scum if you think that I go after the easiest lynch. I go after the second easiest lynch and push my buddies a lot without getting them lynched.

It will be interesting to see if you, Lycan, or Marquis flips Scum. I mean, even if you are Town and Lycan is Scum, you have every reason to agree with Lycan because he has you as a top Town read.

I consider people could be Scum all the time, but I don't say they are Scum super easily because you can see Scum motive in pretty much every post ever as Town. It's about what is likely and I think it's more likely that Lycan and yourself aren't considering many possibilities into the motivation of players and that's a real problem with a player who is a low volume player like Lycan.

And I don't see you voting me, so I think your words are kinda empty with you calling me Scum, so I am going to fire that one right back at you where I when you asked why I wasn't voting you I said I wasn't necessarily SRing you, but here you are SRing me and yet no vote.

[LicketyQuickety]

scum team of tchill, LQ and then one in {wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald, EddieFenix } ?

that's not a great POE on the last slot but thankfully I don't have to worry about it yet.

Yeah, it's not POE, it's preflip.

[LicketyQuickety]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

[LicketyQuickety]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

This is either going to force you into the game or it's going to show that you don't care or that you are Scum.

First, ISO Lycan.

Then tell me what you think of these posts and try to give a read on the players involved:

Lycanfire:

His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.

His question to me I don't think is a legit way to sort me considering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scum you have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.

Not only that, but in 225 he just assumed Llama was doing a slayers gambit of some sort as opposed to just thinking Llama is firing from the hip (which can come from Town and Scum alike), which IIRC Llama neither confirms nor denies which makes his vote on ECS superflux.

Given he's completely wrong about my motivation for doing things, I think it's more than likely he has done this with other people as well. Misinterpreting someone's motives and just calling their motives Town or Scum, without really digging any deeper than behavioral analysis drops his game short and in my experience this comes from Scum more often than Town.

what were your motivations for that conversation with me? it felt like you were trying to see if you could poke around and find traction to start getting a wagon on me, but no one jumped on it so you abandoned it and moved on. you've thrown a lot of shade my way but have avoided attacking me directly. I think that's kind of what lycan was getting at, and I think its pretty clearly true.

so I'll ask you this: are you scum reading me, and if so: why arent you voting me?

You realized you've put your own spin on my motivation without considering things like how I approach the game in general right? Does no one read wiki's anymore? You know I go by Quick, go read that wiki to find out why I am pressing you.

I am not necessarily SRing you, no. I am trying to get a read on you and poking you is one way to do that. I consider you Null at this point in time. Last time I gave you a TR you ended up being Scum so I am not as quick to label you as Town this time around. I'll have to review what people said after I threw some accusations your way.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

I consider what people say about their play, but I don't let people tell me why they're doing the things they do because people lie. You know damn well I know you're quick and I believe I've told you that I've read your wiki, but I also recall you have something of a poor memory, so I forgive you for not remembering that.

The problem with your actions is that the things you're doing also have significant scum motivations. Regardless of if you think you're doing them for other reasons, I'm not in your head, and I can't just trust you.

And I also am starting to be pretty sure you're scum because you're poking and drawing almost no reasonable conclusions. You start long discussions with me about nonsense about how reck is using different tools to find reads, and then disengage as soon as I try to explain. That's the biggest problem here. You're poking, but you don't seem to care about the responses to your pokes. At least not from the people you're poking. You seem to be singularly interested in the responses of other players, which makes me think you're more interested in finding where you can find an easy lynch, and not concerned about finding the correct lynch. This squares quite nicely with your vote on marquis also, which you have not fully explained after naked voting. It's nice to be on the highest vote getter who happens to not be posting much.

Actually, literally all the votes on marquis right now are atrocious.

You clearly have no idea how I play Scum if you think that I go after the easiest lynch. I go after the second easiest lynch and push my buddies a lot without getting them lynched.

It will be interesting to see if you, Lycan, or Marquis flips Scum. I mean, even if you are Town and Lycan is Scum, you have every reason to agree with Lycan because he has you as a top Town read.

I consider people could be Scum all the time, but I don't say they are Scum super easily because you can see Scum motive in pretty much every post ever as Town. It's about what is likely and I think it's more likely that Lycan and yourself aren't considering many possibilities into the motivation of players and that's a real problem with a player who is a low volume player like Lycan.

And I don't see you voting me, so I think your words are kinda empty with you calling me Scum, so I am going to fire that one right back at you where I when you asked why I wasn't voting you I said I wasn't necessarily SRing you, but here you are SRing me and yet no vote.

[LicketyQuickety]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

[LicketyQuickety]

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

at the risk of being opportunistic and... naive(??) the scumread grew because i made it clear how shallow my opinion was and yet you felt the need to jump on and repurpose my words for an agenda anyway

I didn't give an agenda to what you were saying.. I am trying to get you off your ass and into the game.

And I think I am making the correct play going after you and I don't think just because it's an easy play to make that it is the wrong play to make.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ

- I've noticed your teammates don't seem to have had any input on this game. Is there a reason for that? What are their thoughts?

Mostly how this is working is that I am kinda doing my own thing with this game and the others are working on their games together. It's just the way it worked out. I have asked them a couple questions about this game, but for the most part, I am working alone here and my teammates are working together on the other ones. I am mostly there to take care of keeping things in context so they don't get carried away with going too far off course in thinking about being strategic in how to approach things. I am basically the guy who is taking a big picture, stand back approach and just trying to keep them on course.

[LicketyQuickety]

a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it.

So uh
My buddies are my top 2 scumpicks
One of whom I am voting
Excellent

Though I actually got happy when I (a few hours ago) ran into that LQ post about Tchill meta, it was very.much the flavor of.buddies. So you can have partial credit for noticing that at least.

I see we are doing preflip here. What is the motivation for doing so?

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9664703#p9664703
viewtopic.php?p=9664890#p9664890
viewtopic.php?p=9671718#p9671718
viewtopic.php?p=9698355#p9698355
viewtopic.php?p=9710790#p9710790

Anyone want to take a wager for what the pattern here is? I'll give you a hint: Look at who was Scum this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9737012#p9737012
viewtopic.php?p=9737138#p9737138
viewtopic.php?p=9759865#p9759865
viewtopic.php?p=9760052#p9760052

OK, so although I only have a place that I talk about why pre-flip is a bad idea as Scum on this site, I fully believe in every word I said in this game regarding Pre-Flip. In fact, I knew what I was saying was so sound that I decided to make talking about not doing pre-flip a cornerstone of my game in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9664703#p9664703
viewtopic.php?p=9664890#p9664890
viewtopic.php?p=9671718#p9671718
viewtopic.php?p=9698355#p9698355
viewtopic.php?p=9710790#p9710790

Anyone want to take a wager for what the pattern here is? I'll give you a hint: Look at who was Scum this game.

BTW, how I got these results was by ISOing myself and searching for "pre-"

[LicketyQuickety]

I am going back here for the time being:

VOTE: Chill

[LicketyQuickety]

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed. How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

It seems that I am a player who people seem somewhat polarized on. Given this, It might actually benefit Town if I am lynched, but then that takes away all my power to have an influence on the game based on my play and I think I can give Town a better chance at winning if I am not lynched. That said, if people remain to have polarizing views of me, then it's likely I will be able to stay in the game for a while because Scum will not NK someone they think they might be able to lynch. Given this, it puts a lot of pressure on me for my reads to be good and to produce good content. Most of this pressure is self induced because last time I survived to end game I used a method to try and solve the game that I put too much trust in and it ended up with me having a few of bad reads so I don't want to have another poor performance where I survive to late game to have a poor influence on helping my team win the game.

I think this game has become too lopsided. Lots of people voting a single lurker for being a lurker (Marquis) with most people on the wagon having little demonstrated reason for being there. Then you have most of the active players who are fighting amongst themselves mostly and a lot of people who have very little content who are getting by with not doing a whole lot of anything. The state of the game isn't a good one for Town currently - especially considering that a lot of people have expressed that they are Scum read me, whom I consider myself to generally be a Town leader when I am Town. I cannot yet tell who or how many Scum players are going to try and actively push my lynch, but there will most certainly be Scum on my lynch if it happens, so look at those on my wagon upon my lynch.

Now you might be thinking I am viewing this as a somewhat self depreciating way. This is not something that is based on nothing. My ratio for how good of a player I am compared to how often I get lynched D1 is probably astronomically high. Just something to keep in mind. Also, most of you I have not played with much (if at all) so you don't know that I highly highly prefer playing Town over Scum. I almost always get lynched as Scum and I have a very difficult time faking the same kind of fervor as Scum as I do as Town. If you were to look at Realeo's ELO data that he did back in 2016 (I think), you will see that I am a very good Town player and a very lousy Scum player. To put this into numbers, I was in the top 3% for Town players and the bottom 16% for Scum players. So naturally if this data is any indication of what alignment I would prefer, it should be pretty damn obvious.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed. How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

I don't think your summary up there is even remotely responsive to why I am scum reading you. I don't give a damn if you play mechanically or not. I laid out in detail why I think you're scummy, and its mainly because I don't actually see you doing the thing you say you're doing here. I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person. Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

You have NO DOUBT. Is what you are saying... Do you see why this is a problem? Town ALWAYS has an element of doubt. So either you are Scum, or you are trying to read me making assumptions about my play that you have not idea about. Also, you are basically assuming that I should OMGUS you in that spot. Also, what you describe as me "dropping" a point of interest is perfectly in line with my Town play. I have talked about this before, but I am not good at Town because I actually have any ability to solve the game, but rather that I take perspectives that don't often occur which produces content that would otherwise not be in the game. So what you are assuming here is that I would follow up to make a conclusion about what I had pushed earlier, but that is not really the way I play. I just keep taking different angles on things all game long without really looking at what the results of what I am pressing is later in the game. I even highlighted this basic concept when I said I wasn't someone who was going to look at what Player X does at point A and compare that to what Player Y does at point B.

In short, your Scum read on me is based on an assumption about how I play and how I approach the game, which you do not provide the evidence for that I do operate this way.

The problem I am having with the SRs on me is that there isn't much probing from players who are Scum reading me. Some players are doing this, but most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game and Lycan asking me why I had a change in perspective on Marquis reads list. Shea has probably been the person who has looked like they have tried to sort me the most, but I am not going to TR him just solely on that fact.

Do you think the methods others are using on you are ineffective or disingenuous? These are different claims, and I think one might be true, but also I don't think its the one you're claiming.[/quote]

I don't see how I could have any way to answer this without knowing the alignments of the people who are coming at it from the angles they are. There is motivation for both to be true, so I can't definitively say that it's one or the other. For one person it could be that they are ineffective in trying to sort me and another person might be disingenuous. Since I think it's pretty much equally possible for both given I am someone who people generally do not understand too well in a setting like this, which would mean people's methods to sort me are not a good litmus test to tell if I am Town or Scum because they are trying to measure the wrong things, it makes things extremely complicated and I generally don't like to go neck deep in details to deduce who is telling the truth and who is not. I prefer to work intuitively and this is in large part why I am so hard for people to understand at times.

I think this game has become too lopsided. Lots of people voting a single lurker for being a lurker (Marquis) with most people on the wagon having little demonstrated reason for being there. Then you have most of the active players who are fighting amongst themselves mostly and a lot of people who have very little content who are getting by with not doing a whole lot of anything. The state of the game isn't a good one for Town currently - especially considering that a lot of people have expressed that they are Scum read me, whom I consider myself to generally be a Town leader when I am Town. I cannot yet tell who or how many Scum players are going to try and actively push my lynch, but there will most certainly be Scum on my lynch if it happens, so look at those on my wagon upon my lynch.

Homie you were literally voting for that lurker ONE PAGE AGO. With NO EXPLANATION YOURSELF. Literal naked vote. Then you jumped on another wagon without demonstrating or explaining any sort of scum read there. WHY are you voting TChill? WHY did you vote marquis? People aren't scum reading you because you're mechanical, they're scum reading you because you don't seem to care who is lynched and because you're not telling us what your reads are and not explaining them. In the absence of information, what the hell else am I supposed to think?[/quote]

I thought I provided a fine conclusion for voting Marquis. I'd say I gave more reason for being there than anyone else even. I did give a naked vote, but I then later gave a pretty detailed explanation why I thought it was a good idea to push Marquis. I'm willing to go back there if Marquis doesn't end up doing anything but right now I want to press Chill because I have found his reasoning lacking for the reads he has.

And I think you are projecting an awful lot here. Lycan explicitly stated that he thought I was playing mechanical and that was the basis for his SR on me. Postie has also said similar things stating that Postie expected more from me insofar as I am not as forceful or chaotic that RC expects me to play. Llama really has yet to state a reason for why I am Scum, so you are just assuming you know the reason that Llama is SRing me. Who does that leave? Marquis? Marquis is not much more than an OMGUS. She still has yet to address what I asked them to do to get involved in the game. Who else does that leave? IDEK who else is Scum reading me, but a lot of people are strongly TRing me as well. So what do you make of those players? Are they all my Teammates trying to cover for my ass? What's your theory for why People are so polarized on me?

[LicketyQuickety]

most of what people are bringing to me as an inquiry are things that I don't see a whole lot of relevance to actually sort me. Examples include Postie asking me to ask my teammates what their reads on players are in this game

How about you give me an answer for this and then afterwards I can actually explain why it's relevant to sorting you.

You are using a lot of language that I don't expect Postie to actually use. I almost think what you are saying is extremely scripted. Any truth to that at all?

I haven't commented on this yet because I haven't got much of an answer from Mulch or Creature yet. The most I got, and how the conversation went was, I mentioned Mulch and Creature in the game related discord channel and asked them to give me some reads. I only got a reply from Mulch that said he wasn't following the game. So I asked him to ISO Marquis and Lycan and give a read on them. All I got out of him was that he Town read Marquis based on gut. That is all I got from that. Yes, I am pretty much playing this game by myself, so if you actually want to sort me instead of trying to fish for information on my Team, that would be great.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like,

I have no doubt

you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

The fuck are you talking about shea.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I think you are projecting an awful lot here. Lycan explicitly stated that he thought I was playing mechanical and that was the basis for his SR on me. Postie has also said similar things stating that Postie expected more from me insofar as I am not as forceful or chaotic that RC expects me to play. Llama really has yet to state a reason for why I am Scum, so you are just assuming you know the reason that Llama is SRing me. Who does that leave? Marquis? Marquis is not much more than an OMGUS. She still has yet to address what I asked them to do to get involved in the game. Who else does that leave? IDEK who else is Scum reading me, but a lot of people are strongly TRing me as well. So what do you make of those players? Are they all my Teammates trying to cover for my ass? What's your theory for why People are so polarized on me?

My reasons for voting you don't have anything to do with why others are voting you. Please stop responding to posties reasons or lycans reasons. It DOES help that I am TRing both of those people.

I honestly don't even understand this point. You have played enough mafia to know that there is almost never full consensus on a lynch, regardless of alignment. Indeed, frequently the players who its the hardest to reach consensus on are scum because of buddying.

People aren't scum reading you because you're mechanical, they're scum reading you because you don't seem to care who is lynched and because you're not telling us what your reads are and not explaining them. In the absence of information, what the hell else am I supposed to think?

Here you imply there is a consensus on why people are SRing me.

Honestly, what is going through my head at this point is I am wondering if you are playing a slayers gambit, because this is just too easy at this point.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

You're acting sloppy and uninspired. This is a cakewalk if you are Scum but I almost think this is too easy. Do you want me to vote you instead of Chill or something?

[LicketyQuickety]

So I went from the person who is "most trying to sort you" to the person who is "too easy" as scum in your eyes? And that corresponds directly with me pushing you more aggressively?

K.

I don't want to let chilly lurk out from under this wagon, but also I think this needs rope.

I've caught you with 3 blatant contradictions. The pressure I am feeling right now because of your push is laughable. I mean, you can't even create a consistent argument for fucks sake.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, ok...

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: tsq

[LicketyQuickety]

JK, still happy voting chill or LQ. The fact that LQ found his way off the chill wagon onto me just when it was gaining steam is a good data point also.

GTFO me sauce.

Oh, I am fully willing to go back to Chill, no need to worry there

[LicketyQuickety]

On top of not referring to alignment, it's also not an example of excessive certainty in general.
Excessive certainty is when someone plays like they KNOW they have the answer.
Using the words 'no doubt' is a normal way to express confidence. The words themselves aren't the too sure tell.
But LQ saw a buzzword and jumped on it as something he could talk about.

That's dumb, you're dumb.

You are basically saying "well, he said he had no doubt, but he didn't actually mean he had no doubt." Can you not see how stupid that is?

[LicketyQuickety]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

TSQ basically stated that he had no doubt that I was Scum. The ONLY other explanation that TSQ can have is that he was saying he misunderstood my motive as Town and thought I would have voted a high BW as Town there and I am not buying that.

[LicketyQuickety]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

TSQ basically stated that he had no doubt that I was Scum.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

The ONLY other explanation that TSQ can have is that he was saying he misunderstood my motive as Town and thought I would have voted a high BW as Town there and I am not buying that.

I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person.

Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

Shea found the bolded scummy. Based on this behavior, he predicted you'd have voted for him if others had.
It doesn't matter at all if he said "Like, I am confident you would have" or "I'm sure you'd have" or "I think you'd have."
He's using an idiomatic expression to confidently express his analysis of your behavior.
He's not going "HERPADERPA LYNCH LQ 100% COOKIES AWAIT I GUARANTEEE MAKE IT DIE 1V1 AHAHAHAHAHA"

You saw the words "no doubt" and thought "ooh, too-sure-tell, free content" and wrote posts.

I already gave my retort to the bold. Selective reading much?

[LicketyQuickety]

It's almost as though context matters to the meaning of words, or something.

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

TSQ basically stated that he had no doubt that I was Scum.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

The ONLY other explanation that TSQ can have is that he was saying he misunderstood my motive as Town and thought I would have voted a high BW as Town there and I am not buying that.

I see you starting conversations and interactions with people and then trying to gauge town reactions to those things and disengaging with the pokes as soon as its clear people aren't going to start voting the person.

Like, I have no doubt you would have voted me after our exchange if a couple of other people had.

Shea found the bolded scummy. Based on this behavior, he predicted you'd have voted for him if others had.
It doesn't matter at all if he said "Like, I am confident you would have" or "I'm sure you'd have" or "I think you'd have."
He's using an idiomatic expression to confidently express his analysis of your behavior.
He's not going "HERPADERPA LYNCH LQ 100% COOKIES AWAIT I GUARANTEEE MAKE IT DIE 1V1 AHAHAHAHAHA"

You saw the words "no doubt" and thought "ooh, too-sure-tell, free content" and wrote posts.

I already gave my retort to the bold. Selective reading much?

and how does this invalidate at all what I said? You are just repeating the same thing said differently.

[LicketyQuickety]

gamma, i don't mean any offense by this but your thoughts in 530 seem superficial.

Proposal for a set of acronyms:

• MTT - my teammates think
• IDCAWYTMTBYMBLTEYPWEG - I don't care about what your teammates think because you might be lying to enhance your posts with extra gravitas
• WYELT?EAIFTR..R?! - Would you, ergo, lynch this? Ergo as in 'for these reasons.. Really?!
• TYRUF? - Then Y R U Frontin'?

I like these acronyms, gives an air of keeping things brief, not getting bogged down in wordiness.

i mean, do you

really

think that these acronyms serve a functional purpose or that people were going to adopt them? i'm having trouble believing that that's a real thought that you had, and the same applies to a few other things you said there.

Yeah, good post here by North. I can say I don't get this by GE at all. If he is Scum, this is a pretty open pocket play.

[LicketyQuickety]

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, totally agree that Chill "apologising" for voting Postie is weird af and is also Scummy af. I don't want to change my vote back just yet tho.

[LicketyQuickety]

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Chill

This is TSQ's Town game. He flips his shit as Town way more than when he is Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Reads:

Town

North -

Most Confident

Dan
TSQ -

50/50 on Town Lean/Town

Town Lean

Eddie
Gamma Emerald
CES -

50/50 on Town/Null

Null

Sauce - Doesn't have to do much to bump him up to Town Lean
Dunnstral - This isn't moving until I see enough content to actually be able to sort
Dave -

Least Confident

Lycanfire
Postie - I don't see Postie moving out of this rage D1

Scum Lean

Llamarble -

50/50 on Scum/Null

Marquis -

50/50 Scum Lean/Scum

Scum

Chill -

Most Confident

I could potentially see Llama and TSQ teammed here. So even tho individually I have very different reads on these player, I think if Llama flips Red then TSQ has a pretty damn good chance to flip red as well. With this, though, Llama is my weakest SR.

[LicketyQuickety]

Mmk.
VOTE: Tchill

Mulch wants me to ask you why you are SRing me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why no conclusion?

[LicketyQuickety]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not only that, but in 225 he just assumed Llama was doing a slayers gambit of some sort as opposed to just thinking Llama is firing from the hip (which can come from Town and Scum alike), which IIRC Llama neither confirms nor denies which makes his vote on ECS superflux.

Was the distinction I made too subtle to be clear to you or what?

Why no conclusion?

I... posted the conclusion first?

Could you repost your conclusion than?

I would like to thank everyone that asked me stupid questions and ones they did not expect answers to. It's only as a result of your effort that the shining beacons of content in this post become more real.

I can say I really don't like your 'holier than thou' attitude.

[LicketyQuickety]

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

[LicketyQuickety]

This is Marqu trying to get the game going IMO

Asking again what you meant by 308.

Marquis was being pro-active by giving reads that I assume they were thinking would be discussed. That is a pro-town mentality because it shows a motivation to drive the game forward. I don't think Marquis was 100% serious with their reads there, which means she gave those reads for a different reason. My guess is that it was to get the game moving forward. I did however say that Scum can do this to look like Town, which I think is completely within Marquis' Scum range.

His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.

...

His question to me

I don't think is a legit way to sort me

considering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scum

you have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing

, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

Why do you think I do not intend to sort you when I'm offering twice the number as scum as scumreads? Are you special?

Who are you talking to in this (434) post, and what are you trying to say?

What about my wording is interesting?

All of these questions are completely invalid.

For the first question, you are implying that your Scum reads are the only ones you plan on sorting? This means you would not be reevaluating your Town reads, which I think is an incorrect way to approach the game.

I am not talking to you in post 434, I am talking to Town to see what they have to say about it.

It's more that your wording paints a picture that ends up giving more emphasis to points that are not as well substantiated. In other words, I am saying your words are charismatic and your words are stronger than the evidence of what you are actually saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

[LicketyQuickety]

Is the latter comment referring to Shea?

Yeah, Shea was doing Good Works trying to figure out the game looking into Gamma and then LQ; I find it difficult to buy LQ genuinely found it scummy.

You gunna answer my question?

Maybe someday.

It's a pretty straight forward question. Why are you SRing me? If it was based solely off my interaction with TSQ, and if you have ISO'd me multiple times, don't you think having only having one reason to SR me is a bit thin?

[LicketyQuickety]

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

Brilliant, I agree. Now tell me why that makes me Scum.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

Why would I want to help people who are SRing me?

Help demonstrate why they're wrong? Help them improve their reads?

I feel I am doing that by showing them they are wrong. Look, this is pretty standard behavior for me as any alignment. I fight my SR's on me. You can look at pretty much any game and if I am SR then there is a really really good chance that I operate exactly how you are seeing me operate in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

town frequently changes opinions on people, sometimes rapidly. This is the mindset of someone trying to find scum. Scum players are the ones who tend to care about consistency of reads.

I've seen plenty of Scum utilize the "disconnect and confuse Town" approach.

Your hard defense of Llama is noted tho.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah. Kinda does.
Marquis -> Town enough to probably not bother lynching today
Dunnstral -> Actual lynch candidates

What has you thinking Marquise has done ANYTHING that they couldn't easily fake as Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

Chills last post was over 2 days ago.

[LicketyQuickety]

Chills last post was over 2 days ago.

The thread was locked.

I gave everyone an extra day because of it.

I was trying to make a point Mathblade...

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

I've only see chill as Scum so this is very telling to me considering I was already SRing him based on what I know of his Scum game.

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

This post could be telling if Chill flips Scum because I don't get at all why GE is voting Chill and then makes this case on me. It doesn't make any sense at all.



I will say tho that there is little to no resistance on the chill wagon which has me slightly worried that Town is in a bad spot here.

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

I've only see chill as Scum so this is very telling to me considering I was already SRing him based on what I know of his Scum game.

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

This post could be telling if Chill flips Scum because I don't get at all why GE is voting Chill and then makes this case on me. It doesn't make any sense at all.



I will say tho that there is little to no resistance on the chill wagon which has me slightly worried that Town is in a bad spot here.

EBWOP, I accidentally put my comment inside Dunns post the first time around.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

I've ISOed you a couple times.
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.

If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.

Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.

(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.

OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?

what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.

You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.

While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?

And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.

I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.

Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.

You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.

So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.

Yeah, I addressed this earlier. This is just how I react to SRs on me, TSQ and Chill should be able to confirm this since they saw me do it as Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Llama,

You talk about what your reads are a lot, but you rarely talk about how you got those reads. Why is that?

[LicketyQuickety]

I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.

So you've colored in a few things with a little detail. That doesn't make me think "I can see Llama's thought process here and it looks Town motivated". If you don't know what you have been doing wrong in this game (given its a mountainous setup) then you should probably be playing a different game.

This whole "I read X player as Scum and Y player as Town" with no explanation shouldn't get anyone to TR you, period.

[LicketyQuickety]

I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.

So you've colored in a few things with a little detail. That doesn't make me think "I can see Llama's thought process here and it looks Town motivated". If you don't know what you have been doing wrong in this game (given its a mountainous setup) then you should probably be playing a different game.

This whole "I read X player as Scum and Y player as Town" with no explanation shouldn't get anyone to TR you, period.

This is more well poisoning.

"Colored in a few things with a little detail" is not even a remotely reasonable description of what llamarble says he does.

You're either confbiasing me or Scum so I don't really care about your opinion.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

[LicketyQuickety]

Huh, that was pretty easy.
VOTE: Postie
I'm a little curious if you're intentionally obvscum
Might be worth lynching even if intentional though

Was this a serious post?

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

OK, I think you are saying this about Llama but I am not sure.

I'd like you to explain what exact depth you are seeing. Like explain it like I am 5. What is so deep about this post by Llama?

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

OK, I think you are saying this about Llama but I am not sure.

I'd like you to explain what exact depth you are seeing. Like explain it like I am 5. What is so deep about this post by Llama?

I meant to quote this posts, not the one I did:

Anyone interested in a last-minute actually good wagon on GE for that gross case in #702?

Unvote, vote: Gamma Emerald

It was pretty dubious, wasn't it. Definitely made me doubt my townread on him and remove him from the upper tier townies.
I'm not as ready to welcome Davsto to the towny pile as TSQ, I think he would be about as good a competing wagon as GE.
Also I think really I was intending to discourage Eddie from just randomly hammering, as if he's town and does that, that sends town down a bad path.
If he's scum I doubt he'll get far anyway.

I like how that post of his picks down a deeper level into things that had already been discussed. He's not looking surface level at all imo.

You say you like Llama's depth here. Describe how this post by Llama is so deep.

[LicketyQuickety]

I disagree that TSQ is the most TR person in the game. I think he's still in his Scum range.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

Hm, I actually can't find any

There's still the matter of his actual posting looking different to where he is town, though

I'm kind of eyeing Cogito Ergo Sum and wondering if they're white knighting/defending scum and wondering if it's better to just go for them instead

Doing Pre-Flip is almost always not helpful.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

Hm, I actually can't find any

There's still the matter of his actual posting looking different to where he is town, though

I'm kind of eyeing Cogito Ergo Sum and wondering if they're white knighting/defending scum and wondering if it's better to just go for them instead

Doing Pre-Flip is almost always not helpful.

I accounted for both alignment possibilities, the read doesn't rely on tchill's alignment. What doesn't seem to be helpful here is your use of buzzwords?

LOL.

OK. I am using buzzwords (assuming you mean pre-flip).

You basically stated that ECS read was based on them WKing Chill, what am I missing?

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler: 21-30

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there, but I don't see the scummitude others do.

Can you do that please? Also can you move your vote from Gamma. I don't think he's scum. Give me two scum picks bro.

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

You never really explained your early scumread on Marbles. 1) I don't see how an awkward tone would mean it leans towards scum indicative. 2) I thought the representative thing was funny, but don't understand why you find it suspicious. Can you explain those two points?

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

This shows that you aren't really caring to scumhunt, just give the appearance that you are.

Eddie, GE, why aren't you voting?

I wonder why you don't ask this question more often. (A good question to ask though)

any particular reason for voting the person being replaced? by the way, tchill has been active elsewhere on site but not here.
VOTE: tchill

As I was following the game I noticed this too. I wondered why he wasn't getting back to defend himself, while I constantly see his posts in other mafia games.

CES -

50/50 on Town/Null

Why is CES town/null?

"6 suspects" / "no CES" in post 430.

Nobody gets upset with someone that gives 11 towns 2 nulls in a mini. They might get upset with which reads fall onto certain people. Saying I can't find >3 people scummy at any given time is disingenuous. I placed a big-ass disclaimer at the beginning of my post that I didn't care about calling a team, working with a theory, and that I was going to put town or scum on everyone. Deal with it. Regarding the lack of CES, if you look closely I spell out "Vote CES" if you apply the Fibonacci sequence to every paragraph.

.... No, seriously, CES is clearly on my mind when I put Tchill in scum territory just for discounting the possibilities of CES. My first point was something I couldn't make heads or tails of, so he landed there purely as a result of my second point. All I was doing was making reads off of interesting developments within 3-4 pages. Deal with it.

:good posting: CES is also on my mind. I have nothing new to add, still lack of presence, not really scumhunting as much because he feels the thread hasn't developed, when it has developed plenty. The game state has been pretty laid back and I am to assume scum are playing it safe.

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

I agree, good vote.

the way you're challenging them feels like you just want to make them look bad, not that you care to help them

I like this too.

I feel I am doing that by showing them they are wrong. Look, this is pretty standard behavior for me as any alignment. I fight my SR's on me. You can look at pretty much any game and if I am SR then there is a really really good chance that I operate exactly how you are seeing me operate in this game.

It doesn't seem that way to me. You aren't trying to sort them, nor try to get them to see that they are wrong. You are trying to get them off your back, and then when it doesn't work, you vote them. Otherwise, you insult them. That doesn't work if you want to show people that they are wrong.

above post seems like a pretty bizarre overreaction. Forced?

Not beyond the norm for Gamma.

I assume you're asking about the second sentence since the VC should be self-evidently bad with the votes spread across 9 different people.

With Tchill, I see like 2 things that feel definitely scummy to me (the faux catch-up at the start, #212), some big picture "lack of scumhunting"-scumminess but then you also have his off-the-wall theory about Postie being coached (especially in the context of him disavowing team mafia-based theories) which is a nice town tell. It looks to me like a wagon driven by relatively crude heuristics.

What do you think of Tchill avoiding this game and posting in others right now? How does that affect your read on him?

Unvote, vote: Postie

No.

I'm going to hard no sir a postie lynch today.

Same.

Yeah ok.
VOTE: Tchill
My guess going into Night One is Tchill CES AD. Gamma has done a few things that do me a concern but overall is still probably town.
(although AD's "I doubt Chess would give a different read on Eddie" gives me a reservation there, so probably just CES next if Tchillscum)

Let's let Tchill say something before hammer, maybe he's just waiting for his moment to obvtown, but I don't see a better lynch for today.

I don't see scum in AD. More like AD being wrong.

Anyone interested in a last-minute actually good wagon on GE for that gross case in #702?

Unvote, vote: Gamma Emerald

No.

Sup Ranmaru.

I can't begin to express how happy I am that you are not vonflare.

Thanks. Nothing much. Nice to meet you.

Spoiler: Reads

Ranmaru

TSQ - Good presence in thread, most active and scumhunting.

POSTIE - Consistent scumhunting since early game, even though some of it is misguided, it is also what I have experienced with town postie.

Gamma - I like his recent contributions to the thread. His frustration seems normal to me. As scum he loses interest and doesn't put that much effort into cases, he kind of lurks until he's wagoned for not doing anything at all, and then makes excuses. He also has good tone here.

Llamarbles - I like his presence as well, although not not as present as TSQ. Yet it compliments him and I can agree to some of his reads. Hey look see Llama, that last game we played in years ago was a fluke.

Lycan - I liked his analysis on CES, and his reads. I only really like his push on CES, though.

NSG - I like her persistence in questioning CES on his scumreads, and I liked her early game response to Llama, it would be similar to what I would have done.
Dunnstrals - I like that he is getting into the game at this point. Don't know why he was less present in early game.
AD - I kind of need a vote from AD to get a better feel on him.

MARQUIS - null, I don't see scum intent but want a bit more from him
WSGEURTS - null not even here
EDDIE - null but can see what postie is saying, just doesn't stick out to me as much as T L C. Don't want no scrubs.

Tchill - Seems to post in thread for the appearance of being present, without any solid analysis. Weird vote on WGEURTZ and weird apology, which signifies guilt. Avoiding the game while playing others, and gives no indication of why.

CES - Lacks presence. Isn't scumhunting in early to mid day. Most recent votes are bad. Trying hard to avoid Tchill wagon, doesn't comment on the fact Tchill is avoiding the thread pretty hard.

LQ - Scum for omgusing Shea, and developing a read on him without being proactive. Instead he was being reactive, and isn't trying to sort him. He also misses important questions and does not try to answer them. His votes don't make sense.

[LQ > CES > Tchill > Eddie]

Vote: LQ

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am wondering if I should address the horrible cases on me or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

People are playing like they have already lynched Scum.. This is a mistake.

[LicketyQuickety]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, Lama is taking about winning the game and we haven't even completed D1 yet. If people don't get how that is a bad idea, consider this idiom "don't count your chickens before they hatch."

[LicketyQuickety]

Why should I answer you if you have already decided to lynch me?

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ, I would expect a town player to back up what they are saying, and you don't seem to want to. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on whether or not you should answer my questions. You say you want people to understand you, answering my questions is a great way for me to have a better understanding of your slot. I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, prolly 99% of the time people say what they expect me to do is completely 100% wrong.

Here are my most relevant recent Town and Scum games (you could look them up yourself in my Quick Wiki):

Town Games:
http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/117553 ... a-win.html - Under the username Quick
http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/116772 ... hread.html - Under the username Quick
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74461 - Under the username Quick
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... reatures-2 - Hydra game where I did most of the posting. Under the username Quick Star

Scum:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=73693 - Under the username Quick
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73567 - Under the username Quick

[LicketyQuickety]

Thank you, I'll read those. Why aren't you voting right now? Why is CES null-town? Finally, how am I misrepresenting you?

I am not voting because I don't mind the Chill wagon, but I think it's too early to end the day because most people are too dead set on their reads at this point and that gives Scum a lot of momentum going into D2 if their reads are wrong (and I know people are wrong about me, so this is not a good sign IMO).

CES TR is kinda a mix between gut liking that he is sorta shaking things up. It's not a strong TR.

You like many others in this game so far, are ascribing motivation into my play that simply isn't there. Now I get that you have to push

something

, but when you are more guessing that using a solid evidence based case and decide to do a more 75:25 ratio of accusation to evidence, that tells me confbias is playing a roll in how you read me.

I will say your entry wasn't bad and I

think

I am putting you somewhere in the Null/Town pile for now, because it seems you are asking me things instead of just throwing more accusations at me. It's not a bad entry, I just wish I saw more accurate representation of what the facts are. That said, based on what I know of you from seeing your posts from elsewhere on the forum, you are acting in a way I could def see coming from Town!Ran.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Ran I would happily kill either LQ or Tchill. Right now there is a wagon on one of them and not on the other. I have pretty high confidence in my scum reads on both of them, so I don't see why it makes sense for me to switch over to LQ at this time unless the wagon moved over there for some reason independent of me.

What is your strong SR on me based on? I expect some pretty strong evidence considering this is D1.

[LicketyQuickety]

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you

. This is more well poisoning.

You admitted yourself you know I have a bad memory. What the hell, man?

[LicketyQuickety]

@

LQ

: Can you explain how the motivation I am ascribing isn't there point by point? I don't see CES shaking things up. He seems more conservative/reserved until recently. How do you feel about his early Marble vote? Finally, where have you actually posted your reasoning for scum reading Tchill?

@

TSQ

: Fair enough my dude.

I'll get to responding to your case on me point by point after this.

I've said Chill is a meta read. I've played (I think) back to back games where Chill was Scum. Then Dunn dropped the bomb that Chill is a lot more active as Town and that made me feel better about Chill being Scum. But I am still torn on Chill because there is pretty much zero resistance to the Chill wagon. What Llama says about the wagon being primarily Town motivated doesn't make sense if Chill is Scum with the consideration that there is not hardly even a competing wagon to Chill as of last VC.

TBH, I would have to look up where CES voted for Marqu because I don't remember that. The way I see CES shaking things up is in that he has a different perspective that the "dominant" players in this game. He is going up stream instead of going with the flow. So while he has not been a prolific poster, he still has enough content that I would say is "different" than what everyone else is saying to where I think this gives Town +EV if ECS is Town, which is what I am leaning towards.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

Well, when you cut more than half of the context out of why I said that in the first place (the second line of that post) it doesn't really do me any good to give a retort to this. My point was that Llama's methodology was WRONG in how they are coming up with reads. You can't say something like "well they said this, but meant that" without some context into why that might be. All we have to go on is what TSQ said, and I didn't see TSQ either confirm nor deny what Llama said was true, so all we really have to go by is what TSQ actually said and can't assume a motivation that isn't obviously apparent.

CES -

50/50 on Town/Null

Why is CES town/null?

I hope you feel I have answered this by now.

@lycanfire 606: I was engaging ef,not defending him. shade noted though.

VOTE: LQ
At this point I believe LQ is trying to make the people on his wagon look bad by challenging their opinions.

I agree, good vote.

No one has yet answered why fighting your lynch in inherently Scummy.

I feel I am doing that by showing them they are wrong. Look, this is pretty standard behavior for me as any alignment. I fight my SR's on me. You can look at pretty much any game and if I am SR then there is a really really good chance that I operate exactly how you are seeing me operate in this game.

It doesn't seem that way to me. You aren't trying to sort them, nor try to get them to see that they are wrong. You are trying to get them off your back, and then when it doesn't work, you vote them. Otherwise, you insult them. That doesn't work if you want to show people that they are wrong.

I am trying to sort people, I am just not spouting off everything I am considering. I am basically the anti-thesis to Llama. lama spouts off a lot of reads, and generally shoot's before they ask question. TBH, I don't think Llama has actually asked too many question this game.

Ranmaru

TSQ - Good presence in thread, most active and scumhunting.

POSTIE - Consistent scumhunting since early game, even though some of it is misguided, it is also what I have experienced with town postie.

Gamma - I like his recent contributions to the thread. His frustration seems normal to me. As scum he loses interest and doesn't put that much effort into cases, he kind of lurks until he's wagoned for not doing anything at all, and then makes excuses. He also has good tone here.

Llamarbles - I like his presence as well, although not not as present as TSQ. Yet it compliments him and I can agree to some of his reads. Hey look see Llama, that last game we played in years ago was a fluke.

Lycan - I liked his analysis on CES, and his reads. I only really like his push on CES, though.

NSG - I like her persistence in questioning CES on his scumreads, and I liked her early game response to Llama, it would be similar to what I would have done.
Dunnstrals - I like that he is getting into the game at this point. Don't know why he was less present in early game.
AD - I kind of need a vote from AD to get a better feel on him.

MARQUIS - null, I don't see scum intent but want a bit more from him
WSGEURTS - null not even here
EDDIE - null but can see what postie is saying, just doesn't stick out to me as much as T L C. Don't want no scrubs.

Tchill - Seems to post in thread for the appearance of being present, without any solid analysis. Weird vote on WGEURTZ and weird apology, which signifies guilt. Avoiding the game while playing others, and gives no indication of why.

CES - Lacks presence. Isn't scumhunting in early to mid day. Most recent votes are bad. Trying hard to avoid Tchill wagon, doesn't comment on the fact Tchill is avoiding the thread pretty hard.

LQ - Scum for omgusing Shea, and developing a read on him without being proactive. Instead he was being reactive, and isn't trying to sort him. He also misses important questions and does not try to answer them. His votes don't make sense.

OMGUSing is NOT a Scum tell. You have to be a lot more specific as to how I have not been proactive. I have basically stated ITT that I get reads by pushing people. That is my way of being proactive in my read on shea. I have constantly been trying to sort Shea. There is a lot of subtly to my read on shea that you are either not seeing or don't get. I've stated that Llama and TSQ have hard defended each other. I've also said shea has acted in a somewhat Townie way, but that I don't think he is out of his Scum range. I have also said I think he is either confbiasing me or is Scum. What about all these things I have said about shea tells you I am not sorting him? I don't feel motivated to answer every question thrown at me when I am just getting SR despite answering the questions I am. What do you mean my votes don't make sense and why does that mean I am Scum?

[LQ > CES > Tchill > Eddie]

Vote: LQ

[LicketyQuickety]

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you

. This is more well poisoning.

You admitted yourself you know I have a bad memory. What the hell, man?

This isn't some passing remark, this is the fundamental and huge part of this game.

I simply do not understand

how you could possibly have a position on me and how I've played this game without some understanding of why I am scum reading you. Nor do I believe that bad memory means "don't remember a huge thing that happened like 3 days ago"

Yeah, this seems to be the source of most people's SR on me.

[LicketyQuickety]

~snip~

Why do I feel weird about the fact that you have the same Scum reads as most people? I mean, you were a replacement. Usually replacements see things in a different light.

Do you think his catchup was not genuine? What about the points he raised doesn't sit well with you, because it looked like a pretty organic read through to me.

I looked at where he quoted me and saw how badly he misinterpreted what was my intent. This has happened all game long from different people. I have no read on him based on this alone - it could be Town motivated or it could be Scum motivated, IDK.

Enough people were SRing me that I think me delaying D1 ending was a mistake. I am probably going to get lynched D1 and then it's going to be a total loss because people never listen to players who get lynched. Not trying to say that I have done things that would make a big impact in the game

so far

, but I know if I get time to develop some decent reads (usually my TRs are pretty good), then that is when I start to be a scary player to Scum. What people are seeing in my play, and what they are SRing me for, is having a different thought process than the norm. I don't think my behavior is really that Scummy.. It's just that people see I am playing in a non-traditional way and that puts people off and makes them want to lynch me. Not much I can do about it this game. I am very probably getting lynched this game.

Anything

else

you take issue with? All I see is you telling people off for scumreading you. As Lin-Manuel Miranda as Alexander Hamilton said, "they don't have an idea, they just hate mine". You are the "they" in that quote.

How does that make me Scum?

VOTE: GE

[LicketyQuickety]

You are impressing me with how stupid you are.

Why are you resorting to insults here? You are just sniping him with insults to undermine his position as universal town read.

Well, when you cut more than half of the context out of why I said that in the first place (the second line of that post) it doesn't really do me any good to give a retort to this. My point was that Llama's methodology was WRONG in how they are coming up with reads. You can't say something like "well they said this, but meant that" without some context into why that might be. All we have to go on is what TSQ said, and I didn't see TSQ either confirm nor deny what Llama said was true, so all we really have to go by is what TSQ actually said and can't assume a motivation that isn't obviously apparent.

Lets do a pop quiz:

If shea says "I have no doubt that you would have voted me"

Does shea mean

a) "I have no doubt you would have voted me"

or

b) "I have no doubt you are scum."

Huh...

The fuck?

So you have no doubt that I would vote you

under what condition?

That I am Scum or that I am Town? What other options are there?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not relitigating the argument. I'm just saying the claim you're making in 850, that llamarble was interpreting my words without context and that I had done nothing to explain them and that I had never confirmed he was correct is DEMONSTRABLY false.

You've basically just said that your hard defence of Llama is completely baseless because otherwise you would see that my interpretation of what you said is correct and Llama's is incorrect. Reason for this is the point I bring up (which is a valid one) is that under what condition do I always vote for you in that situation. This is a situation that has not been answered and so it is NEW. We haven't talked about this yet and if we have, I don't remember getting an answer. So what I am seeing here is although MY interpretation of what you said is true and Llama's is false, you still SR me and TR Llama. How do you account for this disparity?

[LicketyQuickety]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

That makes no fucking sense at all. If you drop out of the competition, you are out of the competition. There is no motivation to drop out unless you don't want to be a apart of the competition. You get zero awards if your team wins and you drop out.

But I will say there is SOME motivation for Scum to sub out and that is mostly due to stress and not being able to handle the competition as a whole. That said, if you are a known player to dislike playing as Scum, then this puts added stress on someone playing a Scum role who doesn't want to. And with the stakes being raise because of Team mafia, the stress is amplified.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ I will respond after work. Why are people voting Gamma for one post when I am seeing him post pro-town posts like the above two.

I think his main reason for voting me is why I'm scumreading him (as in he's voting me because of my reasoning, not my reasoning is based on that, but LQ voting me like that doesn't help matters either)

No, there was also your shady vote shenanigans earlier in the game revolving around Shea and I also talked about how you are voting Chill but made a case on me.

People are going to read this post and not know what the fuck I am talking about because it's prolly over most peoples heads as to why that makes your behavior Scummy. I don't really care. People are not really trying to sort me. They have made up their mind that I am Scum based on completely misinterpreting my motivation. I don't have the drive to explain why the above makes what you did Scummy. If people really want me to explain it I will, but I am loosing hope for this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Tell reck I don't have the signature I have fo no reason. And there's no way he can understand that quote by Nacho because reck has never played a single game with me.

This isn't really a response. How does being a non-traditional player relate to what Reck accused you of, pumping the breaks on Marquis when you had no marked reason or progression to?

You are mixing things up terribly and not understanding what my primary points are.

Being a non-traditional player has to do with Recks read on me because he is basing how he is reading me under the assumption that I follow the norm when I do not. It's a read based on play, which I talked about, which means he is using general markers to read me as opposed to understanding the mindset behind my posts. He literally cannot get inside my head applying logic that follows what the norm is. My posts are very articulate and most people do not understand what I am saying because they don't assume a standard mindset. Me pumping the breaks on Marquis I already talked about, which I have continued to talk about, namely wagonomics. I am using a different methodology that is not used here often (analyzing wagons and what they stand for and what they mean in isolation of other events). People don't do that very much if at all on this site but it happens all the time on MU. The Marquis wagon needed to be contemplated more, that's why I put the breaks on it. Random unsubstantiated pressure on a slot rarely yields any valid results and the results it mostly gets is just fostering confbias for that player.

Didn't Marquise say they were going to be around today? What happened there? And their wagon is now collapsed. I expect some good posts from Marqu.

I would understand your feeling here if you were having trouble generating reads, but it seems you already had some leads. You didn't really do anything with your Tchill vote.

You're talking as tho I should have well substantiated reads at the point in time I made that post. What gives you the idea that that should be a reality? Lurking players hurt Town. When a lurky player says they are going to produce content, but then don't that should raise suspicion. Do you disagree with that? If you don't then I don't know why you make this point in the first place.

VOTE: marquis

So this vote, it shows me you aren't really trying to sort people. You stick

I am walking a tightrope here between trying to pressure people who are not active so I can get a read on them and trying to decide who out of the people who are active that I SR. You should be able to see how this creates complications in the confidence level of any read I might have considering if you have 1/3 of the players in the game not giving enough content to get a decent read on in how this effect my reads on the active players. Seriously this is not brain surgery.

I think Chill is still very much within his Scum range, is the TL;DR version.

Chill is good at blending in as Scum and tends to make his reads match what benefits him at the time he makes those reads. If someone is TRing him, he may TR them back. If it looks like a Townie is taking pressure, he may throw shade on them. Basic Scum play 101, but he does it in a way that doesn't look too opportunistic and generally gives just enough reason for the reads so people don't question his reads. I said as much in a different game I played with him.

This is the most I have seen you talk about Chill's play here. Yet in your #199 you don't state Chill in a reads list. You then FOS Shea, then you wonder where Marquis is at. Then this:

VOTE: marquis

You vote Marquis, but don't give a reason for leaving Tchill. You never really attack Tchill, you only interact with him after he responds to you. I want to know why you haven't gone into his actual play this game, rather then hedging around him.

I've not hedged on Chill, not really. I've made my opinion very clear on him a number of times. I mean, if you are looking for me to just say "Yes, Chill is guaranteed to be Scum" that is just not going to happen in a game this complex. It would be nice if I could just give black and white reads, but things are not that simple. What I said about Chill in the first part of this section was to give eye's to Town in what to look for in Scum!Chill. I think that sort of thing is incredibly useful, but YMMV.

Honestly I have seen so many Scum use the argument "No, don't go after lurkers, it's pointless" This is not a Town mindset to have because at what point DO we go after lurkers? If we don't go after lurkers today, then when? Because lurkers hurt Town really really badly late game.

We lynch scum. Lurking is null. If you have any content to read them by, use that. I don't see anything suspicious from Marquis. Also, better to go for lurker D2 if you have suspicious leads D1, for information and connections.

Right, but you cannot assume that the lurkers are not Scum. Scum lurk as a strategy quite commonly. Like I said before, when 1/3 of the players in the game are not giving enough content to be able to even get an idea of if they are acting Scummy or Townie, that is a real problem that has to be dealt with. You can't ignore small things like this because small things become big things and then they turn into something so terrible it doesn't even resemble what the first problem was. Yes, I am being dramatic here, but it's to make a point. Lurkers are a small problem now, but if they go unattended, then then become a very very big problem. You are essentially advocating that we sweep the lurker problem under the rug. What makes you think this is the correct approach?

You realized you've put your own spin on my motivation without considering things like how I approach the game in general right? Does no one read wiki's anymore? You know I go by Quick, go read that wiki to find out why I am pressing you.

I am not necessarily SRing you, no. I am trying to get a read on you and poking you is one way to do that. I consider you Null at this point in time. Last time I gave you a TR you ended up being Scum so I am not as quick to label you as Town this time around. I'll have to review what people said after I threw some accusations your way.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

It doesn't read like you are trying to get a read on Shea.

If you were you would have

completed the earlier conversation he asked you about re: Reck and his separate methods of coming to reads. I don't think referring us to your wiki is a valid defense, you haven't really explained your actions in game.[/quote]

How do you know this? This is exactly the type of misrepresentation of my motivation that I have been talking about.

Mostly how this is working is that I am kinda doing my own thing with this game and the others are working on their games together. It's just the way it worked out. I have asked them a couple questions about this game, but for the most part, I am working alone here and my teammates are working together on the other ones. I am mostly there to take care of keeping things in context so they don't get carried away with going too far off course in thinking about being strategic in how to approach things. I am basically the guy who is taking a big picture, stand back approach and just trying to keep them on course.

What is the point of you guys being in a team in team mafia then if you are playing solo? It's like playing solo q when you are in a team, which means no synergy.

You are equating playing a moba to playing mafia. This could have potentially been really confusing if my brother didn't play Dota 2 because you gave no context into what you were talking about.

I am largely and independent person. I have a lot of reasons that I naturally act in my own accord rather than engaging in a group. This is a personality based thing where you are once again, assuming what applies to most people applies to me as well. It just happened to work out this way, which I have stated. I don't see how this forwards getting a read on me one way or another unless you are again making another assumption that I am getting more feedback from my teammates than I am representing, which I am not which makes making the point that I am very difficult to do.

And I know why people are Scum reading me. I think Lycan hit on this point and so did Postie a bit.

It's because people are interpreting my play as "mechanical" and for some reason they thing this means I am Scum. Instead, I would say I am trying to play in a logical way with a big picture outlook on the game. That means I am not going to get into specifics of relating what Player X did at point A and compare that to what Player Y did at Point B. I have never played that way so if people expect me to play that way, I am sorry to say that they will be disappointed.

How I play is looking at posts in isolation and seeing if they are internally logical insofar of what I know to be logical comparing this to what I think is the correct way to play

. I sometimes compare a post they made somewhat recently to what they are saying, but I am not going to remember something that someone said on page 5 at this point. I will, however, ISO players occasionally and I will usually do this if someone asks me to.

Bold Underlined, what have you ISO'd about Tchill and Marquis?

I don't think I have ISO'd either of those players in depth. I never claimed that I absolutely would ISO people.

VOTE: tsq

Did you ISO TSQ here? This seems like omgus again. He has a problem with your play, and you seem to misrepresent his argument. If you misunderstood and explained why you misunderstood, it would be fine but you ignore the fact that it may have been, and you vote Shea.[/spoiler]

Here's the next ten pages (with a few quotes from previous pages because I had to go backwards to understand things better). I'm going to catch up with the next ten pages, then give reads and a vote.

Again, OMGUS is NOT a Scum tell. Tell me why you think it is. I am not even saying that I am OMGUSing TSQ, but since that is your argument, then I will approach this one head on and ask you why you think OMGUS is a Scum tell.

The problem with what Shea actually meant is still under investigation. I have my suspicions, but he is not giving me a straight answer.

[LicketyQuickety]

In some order, we are lynching Tchill, the entire Gamma wagon (CES AD LQ) and Eddie.

Why?

Scum are going to NK TSQ, Me and / or Postie, NSG / Ran

How do you know this?

That's 5 lynches; we get 6. If we haven't won the game with those 5, the people still alive at that point can reevaluate.

It's D1 and you are assuming that you have already solved the game. This is a problem.

If somehow those 5 players are all town, then well played scum. Team would have to be like Marquis Postie NSG or something.

This is prolly the dumbest thing said in the thread so far, so congrats on that.

In fairness, NSG scum is more plausible than I was thinking; her ISO is essentially just some reads and reasons.

Yeah, reads and reasons, what are those good for anyways?

NSG mostly works on Eddie and CES teams and such though.

I have no idea what you are even talking about. List some examples.

The lylo that would leave is:
Marquis
Dunnstral
Lycan
Davsto
Gamma

How the fuck are you saying that you know what the LyLo players left are going to be on D1? Irreprehensible. You have not even come close to demonstrating that you have the level of competence to be able to figure this out.

Give whoever you lynch the day before lylo (CES if he makes it that far) the right to pick the lylo lynch if they flip town. Otherwise elect somebody to control all the lylo votes.
Town MUST all 3 get it right, if game goes to lylo, so they need some preexisting mechanism to agree and stack their votes or else scum have a 90% chance of winning in 2/3 lylo.
And once again, do not assume someone who lacks a good possible buddy must be town. I was universally scumread in Whiteflag 1 and won as scum because Mith distanced from me successfully and it looked like nobody could be my partner.

I can see LQ flipping town. I can see AD flipping town, maybe. I can see Tchill flipping town if all the scum are on the gamma wagon.
CES I can't really see flipping town here, but I'm also too lazy and not reliable enough at reading him to try to lynch him D1. If alive in lylo, all votes go on him please.
Eddie is probably where my next big timechunk of reading should go.

OK, so what was you point again?

[LicketyQuickety]

Put simply I want to set things up D1 to ensure a town win, so I am thinking a few moves ahead. I don't have a very long shelf life as town.
Your post essentially says "I find it annoying that you're thinking far ahead." Which offers even less value than my post
Lynch math - 15 -> 13 -> 11 -> 9 -> 7 -> 5 = 5 lynches; if we've hit scum with those 5 we get an additional lynch.

You haven't demonstrated that you have the ability to think that far ahead! You haven't articulated half of why you have stated the outrageous claims that you have. What value does you post offer in terms of utility for someone who doesn't just take your word for it? Zero!

[LicketyQuickety]

Put simply I want to set things up D1 to ensure a town win, so I am thinking a few moves ahead. I don't have a very long shelf life as town.
Your post essentially says "I find it annoying that you're thinking far ahead." Which offers even less value than my post
Lynch math - 15 -> 13 -> 11 -> 9 -> 7 -> 5 = 5 lynches; if we've hit scum with those 5 we get an additional lynch.

You haven't demonstrated that you have the ability to think that far ahead! You haven't articulated half of why you have stated the outrageous claims that you have. What value does you post offer in terms of utility for someone who doesn't just take your word for it? Zero!

And let's be clear, my point is that where the gamestate is not is not any indication that it will be the same for subsequent days. You are assuming erroneously so, that the game state is not going to change at all from this point in the game to the time the game is over. This is such short sightedness that it makes me think you are just trying to making noise to look like you are doing something.

Like for what you said... Based on WHAT do these things happen?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Eddie Fenix, what is Mastina's read on Llama?

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I'm voting town.
VOTE: Tchill
Just do Tchill, when it flips red do CES.
Do AD or maybe LQ if game isn't over by then.

Based on what?
Nightkills go on people who are good at identifying scum and are never going to get lynched.
TSQ is playing well and obviously never getting lynched. If he's scum we'll just have to lynch his buddies.
I'm never getting lynched because I'm town, though if scum want to leave me alive to lylo, letting a player with my history of lynch control and lynch accuracy alive through 5 days, and I fail to win it by then, I will accept my own autolynch in lylo because I'll deserve it.
NSG and Ran and Postie are universal or near universal townreads.

Lynches go to people who are not obvtown or people who are scummy.
There are decent to very good reasons not to lynch Gamma Dunn Lycan Davsto and Marquis, but they aren't universal townreads either so they prob won't eat nightkills.
LQ Eddie Tchill CES AD are all widely scumread players (to varying degrees), for good reason. It's not hard to have a decent guess of where things are going.
Am I getting ahead of myself, sure. Am I really helping by posting this, maybe? I tend to just let my thoughts out in the thread a lot. It can be a little spammy sometimes unfortunately but I don't think there are many players who get as cosmically obvtown as I do so it's worth it to me.

HOW DO YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO KEEP THE SAME READS ALL GAME!!!11!!!1one1

[LicketyQuickety]

If you think I'm exercising a lot of influence now, just wait until you try and make a lynch happen that I don't approve of lol.

I don't think anything you have recently said should influence almost anything about the way they view the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE: think I forgot to earlier

Pedit if you're really town what you can do is stop posting so much words : )

If I post less words, I am going to be even less understood.

[LicketyQuickety]

Anyway actually addressing Llamar's scumreads I take issue with, AD is a townread for me, he's been questioning a lot and it isn't just bluster. I honestly don't get why people are scumreading CES but he's been a bit of a black hole for me in terms of having an opinion so maybe someone who townreads him and someone who scumreads him give a case? While I myself don't scumread EddieFenix I guess there is some validity to it?
As for the other parts I'm meh on it, all it takes is one deviation and it goes out the window imo

This is a Town post.

UNVOTE:

[LicketyQuickety]

@Postie, what is RC's read on me?

[LicketyQuickety]

Llama's ISO looks so chaotic it makes Norma Jean look like financial analysts.

[LicketyQuickety]

Llama should really know better...

[LicketyQuickety]

Slow down on voting me.
I’ve read sporadically.
Going more in depth now.

Who is on my mislynch?
Serious question. Assume you already seen me flip town. Who are you looking at?

UNVOTE:

TSQ, Llama, and Lycan is who I am looking at if you flip Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Screen, what do you make of the non-voters?

I have been talking a bit with Creature about this game. He's says I should interact with you more so that is what I am going to do. I had trouble with your Pred not really answering my questions, which is what I saw him do as Scum. So if you can put my mind at ease that you are not Scum, that would be great.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Screen, what do you make of the non-voters?

I have been talking a bit with Creature about this game. He's says I should interact with you more so that is what I am going to do. I had trouble with your Pred not really answering my questions, which is what I saw him do as Scum. So if you can put my mind at ease that you are not Scum, that would be great.

I will do my best.

not sure about he noon voters. The people on vanity wagons usually catch my eye first.

How much of the game have you read? Be specific.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Screen, what do you make of the non-voters?

I have been talking a bit with Creature about this game. He's says I should interact with you more so that is what I am going to do. I had trouble with your Pred not really answering my questions, which is what I saw him do as Scum. So if you can put my mind at ease that you are not Scum, that would be great.

what?

why does what screenplay does have to do with tchills scum meta?

like why does screenplay answering questions mean that tchill wasn't playing as his scum meta?

Apparently what I am saying is lost on you. Let me explain:

I don't have a lot of meta on Chill. I have two games, which is not much at all. So why would I trust a meta read strongly enough to be confident that Chill is Scum when I have also said I didn't really like the composition of his wagon? Meta reads are generally pretty weak IMO and that is especially true if you don't have enough meta on someone to know specifics of how they approach each alignment. So LIKE I HAVE STATED BEFORE, I don't really like the composition of Chills wagon considering the competing wagon only has 2 votes compared to Chill's 6. It tells me that Scum are likely on that wagon and whether it is a bus or not (in the case that Chill is Scum) we just wouldn't know.

Also, there is an element of reevaluation when a new player comes in to replace someone. I am not going to view the new player in the same way, with the same biases that I had on the pred because for one it's not fair to the player replacing who can't answer for their pred's arguments. Second of all, coming from the frame of mind that I am going to reevaluate the new player means that I am not going to be Confbiasing the new slot.

[LicketyQuickety]

page 12
LQ would be my vote at this point

Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

oh probably just because "you play mechanically" or "he didn't iso you" or "because he doesn't like how play" or because "hes stupid or scum" or "doesn't understand what your motivation is" or any number of the bs nonsense you've used to cast doubt on people scum reading you this entire game without interacting with their actual arguments.

I see we have resorted to being a condescending prick.

How about next time you actually think about what I am saying before making a conclusion?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

[LicketyQuickety]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

This is more well poisoning. You keep just bringing up that I was scum in this game but not drawing any conclusions from it. My play in this game has been quite different from my play in that game. If you disagree, state why, and if you don't disagree why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

How on earth is that well poisoning (at term I have never heard before btw)?

I said you were in that game because I said earlier that YOU could verify that I act this way as Town as well. You never confirmed me on that, so I decided to provide evidence to back up what I was saying.

You only talk about the things you don't like and never talk about the things you actually agree with. That leads to confbias.

[LicketyQuickety]

I suggest people start thinking about who they want to go after once I flip Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ can I get a reads list?

I already provided one a few days ago.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ can I get a reads list?

I already provided one a few days ago.

Here is what my read list looked like a couple days ago:

Reads:

Town

North -

Most Confident

Dan
TSQ -

50/50 on Town Lean/Town

Town Lean

Eddie
Gamma Emerald
CES -

50/50 on Town/Null

Null

Sauce - Doesn't have to do much to bump him up to Town Lean
Dunnstral - This isn't moving until I see enough content to actually be able to sort
Dave -

Least Confident

Lycanfire
Postie - I don't see Postie moving out of this rage D1

Scum Lean

Llamarble -

50/50 on Scum/Null

Marquis -

50/50 Scum Lean/Scum

Scum

Chill -

Most Confident

I could potentially see Llama and TSQ teammed here. So even tho individually I have very different reads on these player, I think if Llama flips Red then TSQ has a pretty damn good chance to flip red as well. With this, though, Llama is my weakest SR.

Shea goes to Null, Chill goes to Null/Scum, Marquis and Llama swap, Chill goes just before Marquis, Sauce goes to Town, Eddie goes to Null.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

This is more well poisoning. You keep just bringing up that I was scum in this game but not drawing any conclusions from it. My play in this game has been quite different from my play in that game. If you disagree, state why, and if you don't disagree why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

How on earth is that well poisoning (at term I have never heard before btw)?

I said you were in that game because I said earlier that YOU could verify that I act this way as Town as well. You never confirmed me on that, so I decided to provide evidence to back up what I was saying.

You only talk about the things you don't like and never talk about the things you actually agree with. That leads to confbias.

Actually, what relevance is there to Shea being scum instead of town in that game?

Because it gives context into how Shea was viewing me as a player in that game. He would have different eye's on me than other Town people from that game.

Like why is it that because I gave that context that that means it's something Scummy? That is what people are arguing and I don't get it.

[LicketyQuickety]

The fuck. You're town reading me? You VOTED me.

So.. what's your point? I was TRing you at the time I made that list with the added context that you and Llama had hard defended each other.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Gamma,

I said that me fighting my lynch in the way I have this game is NAI. I didn't say I only do it as Town. Here's a game example of where I have done it as Town. You'll notice shea was in this game and he was Scum there: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73592

This is more well poisoning. You keep just bringing up that I was scum in this game but not drawing any conclusions from it. My play in this game has been quite different from my play in that game. If you disagree, state why, and if you don't disagree why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

How on earth is that well poisoning (at term I have never heard before btw)?

I said you were in that game because I said earlier that YOU could verify that I act this way as Town as well. You never confirmed me on that, so I decided to provide evidence to back up what I was saying.

You only talk about the things you don't like and never talk about the things you actually agree with. That leads to confbias.

Actually, what relevance is there to Shea being scum instead of town in that game?

Because it gives context into how Shea was viewing me as a player in that game. He would have different eye's on me than other Town people from that game.

Like why is it that because I gave that context that that means it's something Scummy? That is what people are arguing and I don't get it.

I'm not sure if it's scummy. I feel like you're trying to either 1) draw connections between games wrt Shea or 2) call Shea scum for not taking anything from that game

My point, which I said like not 20 min ago, is that the only thing shea seems to comment on is what he doesn't like. He doesn't say "Yeah, what LQ said about himself fighting the lynch the same as he is doing now was is a real thing" There's a lot of things like that that TSQ just completely ignores. I talked about how it's still unresolved in what TSQ meant when he said he had no doubt I would vote him. And then I said "under what condition" and he completely ignored me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, good on Ran for making end of day interesting but I don't think we should switch to LQ at this time. I promise to check more thoroughly tonight though. I am due for an LQ reread.

Check to see if I am internally consistent or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

@

LQ

: Can you talk to me about why you feel WGEURTS 98 was flat?

It lacked any kind of spicy content.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, good on Ran for making end of day interesting but I don't think we should switch to LQ at this time. I promise to check more thoroughly tonight though. I am due for an LQ reread.

Check to see if I am internally consistent or not.

What sort of internal consistency, because that directive seems very vague

Is my narrative consistent. Is what I am saying true to itself throughout all of my posts?

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you have played substantively different this game than that game. The way you have fought back against your wagon has been similar, but fighting back against a wagon is probably the easiest thing to do the same as both town and scum.

I'm not claiming I have played the same way between these two games. I never made that argument. If you are trying to say I am Scum because I am not acting the same exact way as a past game, then LOL, that is not how meta reads work.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, good on Ran for making end of day interesting but I don't think we should switch to LQ at this time. I promise to check more thoroughly tonight though. I am due for an LQ reread.

Check to see if I am internally consistent or not.

What sort of internal consistency, because that directive seems very vague

Is my narrative consistent. Is what I am saying true to itself throughout all of my posts?

LOL that's more of a scum concern than a town one

I don't think you know what I mean by my narrative being consistent.

[LicketyQuickety]

Again I think Tchill13 obviously came across wrong and I’m here to try and fix that.
It’s BS that so many people seem against that happening. That’s the whole point of the game. Interact. Reinterpret. Evolve reads.

You can't "fix" things like this. The best you can come to this is having people reevaluate you based on your play.

Also, I am really curious if you could share some of Chills notes that he gave on me, thanks.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, I am really curious if you could share some of Chills notes that he gave on me, thanks.

Not mentioned in pt at all.

In all total he only has 3 or 4 sentences about this game.

And you are basing a SR on me based on 3 or 4 sentences taken from someone secondhand?

[LicketyQuickety]

I stated I wanted you caught up as soon as possible, and that remains the same now. Can you expand on real time being more relevant for you, I'm curious why you prioritized that instead of catching up.

He's already "found Scum" what more reason does he need?

[LicketyQuickety]

It is notable that Chill is shying away from his SR on me.

[LicketyQuickety]

It is notable that

Chill

Screen is shying away from his SR on me.

Screen

Ebwop

[LicketyQuickety]

Asking questions in general is fine; it's the way you did these ones. Not so much trying to help others see the light as preying on apparent inconsistencies.
To be fair it would be worse if he were the other wagon or something.

Of course I have doubts. There are 3 scum in a 15 player game. I am good at mafia, but cautiously optimistic is about the best I can be unless the dayplay goes AWESOME from town.

If you have doubts why are you ignoring the possibility of me being town.

I even heard unsalvageable. Don’t remember who said it but statements like that don’t imply doubt.

So about shea saying he had no doubt I would vote him...

[LicketyQuickety]

We've discussed it this game, but doubt is part of mafia. If we started every sentence with maybe, it would get annoying after a while. I've certainly considered the possibility of you being town; I spent plenty of time looking into LQ and Eddie and others. Even unvoted for a while. If you want us to unvote you, give us something compelling, show us a better way forward. If you're town, it usually shows eventually.

Changing reads every 5 minutes is not a solution to the problem, unless you are Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am going here:

VOTE: Postie

Pretty much everything Postie writes I look at it in a way that RC has basically scripted for her. I can't prove it, but that's how I feel about it. Consider this a gut read.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am going here:

VOTE: Postie

Pretty much everything Postie writes I look at it in a way that RC has basically scripted for her. I can't prove it, but that's how I feel about it. Consider this a gut read.

What about my thoughts on the situation. What do you think about that?

Quote it for me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well Bins says lynch Screenplay but is sparse on the details (and also I admittedly haven't read a single one of his posts)

As far as I see, there is literally no reason to TR you.

[LicketyQuickety]

I doubt Postie is scum.
Rc having his thought stated through her that I’m look Town makes no sense as scum.

Why?

Also, I think RC is garbage in general so I'm not really taking what he says into account much.

What do you mean why?
I know I’m town. If Postie has ignored this slot up until that time of rc’s thoughts. What’s the point? It was unnecessary I think in that situation as scum.

You didn't even properly answer TSQ's question of why you would put this kind of emphasis on RC's TR of you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, RC is a pretty unpredictable person, which is why they have a good Scum game. I don't get why just because RC provided a read on you means that Postie is Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well, I think that because Screen is gone and not posting anymore that he is Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well Bins says lynch Screenplay but is sparse on the details (and also I admittedly haven't read a single one of his posts)

As far as I see, there is literally no reason to TR you.

And didn't I explicitly say that myself? Lol

You don't need to point things out that everyone already sees. You keep doing this and making grabby hands at every possible discussion point that paints me in a bad light. and it's part of why I'm so much more confident you're scum despite me being so behind on everything else. It doesn't feel organic at all, because you're practically ignoring me until I do something that you can use to continue painting your narrative.

Get it? It feels like you decided first that I was scum, and only afterwards you're trying to bring up things to justify and/or strengthen that sentiment among the Town. Maybe it's only blatant to me because I'm on the receiving end of it. But from what I remember every time I reiterate my scumread on you, you respond with something to the effect that I'm scummy. And yet it seems like you barely ever talk about me otherwise, whenever I check in I'm always an afterthought until I say something about you and then it's like "I just remembered Marquis is scum guys"

This is probably slightly inexact. But that's the total vibe I get. Even if I can't be as active as I used to be my opinion still matters, no matter how much mud you're trying to throw on it. And if there's anyone I've been paying attention to this game, it's you - because up until Davsto joined you're the player I know the best here, the player I think I can read better than the unknowns, and the player I'm pretty sure is better at Town than this.

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference. If you don't understand why it's a problem that people can't Town read you then you are failing at one of the basic things in this game. I point this out, because I want to have a reason to TR you, but I just don't. This has a psychological impact on not only me, but every other Town player in the game. Stop being completely Null and start acting like a Townie.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference. If you don't understand why it's a problem that people can't Town read you then you are failing at one of the basic things in this game. I point this out, because I want to have a reason to TR you, but I just don't. This has a psychological impact on not only me, but every other Town player in the game. Stop being completely Null and start acting like a Townie.

It's as if you're not even reading my posts

Spoiler:

I don't think you're actually reading my posts
and if you are you're purposefully talking past them

I quoted and responded to the first post I saw by you because it was just another time where someone underestimated how particular I was with my words. I haven't read your other posts on this page. Still, there is a Scum motive there to not even show up for pretty much all of D1 and then just unload everything during Twilight. This is another reason I can't just say "Oh, Marquis is contributing finally, they must be Town."

What I say is usually some basic shit, but I say basic shit because you have to get the basics before you can do more elaborate things. I am not the best at analyzing play, I admit that. I am not really a good player because I am a good player.. I am a good player because I bring shit up that otherwise wouldn't be itt. So while my solving ability is probably sub par, I am actually a player with an above average win rate because I bring content to the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference.

Also this is bs because you have totally said I'm scum. And even if you haven't it was an open implication that only served to help along a potential ML on me

Point out where I have emphatically said that you are Scum with a capital C? I had you as a Scum lean, where I was 50% on you being between an legit Scum read and a Scum lean. Reason for that is I have no reason to TR you. I have at least some reason to TR pretty much everyone else in this game, but I don't have a reason to TR you. Your content has been lacking in a way that is quite extreme. All I have heard all game from you is "I don't really want to play this game, hear is a read I have" which is not pro-active at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference. If you don't understand why it's a problem that people can't Town read you then you are failing at one of the basic things in this game. I point this out, because I want to have a reason to TR you, but I just don't. This has a psychological impact on not only me, but every other Town player in the game. Stop being completely Null and start acting like a Townie.

It's as if you're not even reading my posts

Spoiler:

I don't think you're actually reading my posts
and if you are you're purposefully talking past them

I quoted and responded to the first post I saw by you because it was just another time where someone underestimated how particular I was with my words. I haven't read your other posts on this page. Still, there is a Scum motive there to not even show up for pretty much all of D1 and then just unload everything during Twilight. This is another reason I can't just say "Oh, Marquis is contributing finally, they must be Town."

What I say is usually some basic shit, but I say basic shit because you have to get the basics before you can do more elaborate things. I am not the best at analyzing play, I admit that. I am not really a good player because I am a good player.. I am a good player because I bring shit up that otherwise wouldn't be itt. So while my solving ability is probably sub par, I am actually a player with an above average win rate because I bring content to the game.

Blah blah long story short I know you're a more analytical, less gut-based player than me as Town.

And none of what you've done regarding my slot this game reflects that. It's all mud. A shallow puddle of mud.

Ok bye out for real now

OK, here's a challenge for you: How do you suppose I can un-mud what my perspective is on you? Do you think you actually deserve that?

[LicketyQuickety]

5 Relaxed Nature Gamma Emerald Aristophanes Aeronaut Something_Smart Fro99er

You are the only person in this list who would willingly pick scum, besides S_S maybe. and only a very light maybe.

Forgive me if you fake being enraged again because I'm saying this only serves to strengthen the scum-odds of my read on you.

Are you saying my team HAS TO have scum in it? Because that's a fallacy. I don't think the system works that way, other wise you could break each and every game by finding which person has the scum slot of their team.

Also along with this, I can only assume that Marquise thinks I would be someone who would pick a Scum role. I can't say there are Scum in my team, but regardless of this, what makes you think I would chose a Scum role?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Eddie

Postie is either bussing or has a good read here in my estimation. Someone who is good at looking at wagons can analyze Eddie's wagon.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.

It's absolute Bull Shit to say Llama was killed because they were looking at Eddie. Like seriously...

[LicketyQuickety]

I mean there could have been other reasons but I wanted to point out that it makes sense from the PoV of Eddie being scum.

I am going here:

VOTE: Postie

Pretty much everything Postie writes I look at it in a way that RC has basically scripted for her. I can't prove it, but that's how I feel about it. Consider this a gut read.

Since you're here and this was on the first page I clicked on
LQ wtf why are you sheeping me
I mean keep sheeping me but also how did you get from there to here

Yup, that read hasn't changed. I just think you are bussing so we may as well go along with the bus and sort you later.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Marble, I've got Screen in my sights for today. However, from the AtE and flailing going on, I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it. If anything, I'm a patient man.

I want to point out the dissonance in this. He implies that he strongly thinks Srceen is scum, but then says he wants to give him more time and isn't going to vote or push there.
Like, Eddie in this post straight-up, literally, says that he wants this lynch but wants it while sitting back and letting it play out without his involvement.

I didn't know it was possible to play exclusively to scum wincon so hard and not be obvscum.

Like jesus christ guys this isn't rocket science

And if I had a nickel for everytime Llama changed their scum reads I would probably have several dollars by now.

I think it's Scummy af for you to try and use Llama's death to say Eddie is Scum. Llama was widely widely TR. That is why Llama was probably killed, not because of who Llama went after.

[LicketyQuickety]

That quote from Llama wasn't about the kill; I was pointing out how this is one example of many where Eddie is very obviously playing into a scum wincon/mindset and people need to stop overthinking and just lynch him for it already.

Likely to get scum lynched > is townread though. The latter matters in lategame but means very little right now. But whatever I don't care as long as you're voting Eddie.

This is pretty much exactly the kind of playstyle I would expect from RC. I think RC is in large part playing the game for you.

[LicketyQuickety]

That quote from Llama wasn't about the kill; I was pointing out how this is one example of many where Eddie is very obviously playing into a scum wincon/mindset and people need to stop overthinking and just lynch him for it already.

Likely to get scum lynched > is townread though. The latter matters in lategame but means very little right now. But whatever I don't care as long as you're voting Eddie.

This is pretty much exactly the kind of playstyle I would expect from RC. I think RC is in large part playing the game for you.

I noticed you dodged this one. Not looking good for you Postie.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm willing to let the case write itself right now and give screen more time(and rope essentially) to hang themselves with it.

I

never

voted them because I wanted to keep discussion going for the day cause I had a feeling that Srcreen was trying to redeem the slot.

Fucking lol

Did you even notice the fact that as soon as he hit L1, he (Screen) was

immediately

POUNCED on?

What I noticed is that as soon as I voted Postie Screen was lynched. Could just be a coincidence tho.