Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[SaraharaS]

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

[SaraharaS]

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

[SaraharaS]

I'm up to page 3 now. Wow this is getting tough lol... i'll post my thoughts and stuff in a bit

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

How much have you caught up, then, Flavor Leaf?

-Morty

what's a flavor leaf?

I like the readslist.

Sarah, what's your favorite kind of pokemon? I have a role which allows me protect people at night, but it only works if I can guess their favorite pokemon. If I guess their least favorite pokemon, they die instead.

Mew

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

People rushed through a miselim 2 fucking days in is what but what’s done is done, so long as it never happens again, we’ll recover.

huh, isn't that like... super dumb?

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Starcrossed

Let's get out of RVS.

loooool i was looking over the players to see where i should put an orange mark for this bad post and it took me ages to realize i couldn't find her because she was a stump

It's not that important but it might get us one free scum.

Somehow I'm guessing this never panned out

Uh ok I think Toog is scum.
VOTE: Toog

Btw I'm posting pretty unfiltered thoughts here cuz generally I would be talking to morning a lot about this stuff but she's doing her calc homework and I've told her to focus so now y'all get all the bullshit in my head.

For example that uh big discovery that I had I uh talked through with morning and now think the big discovery is a piece of trash yay >.<

You are vibing. That's a good thing btw

well bats looks as townie as one can be in the opening stages of a game. excitement feels very genuine, looks like the beginning of a town-solvey mindset in 15 + 43, the info stuff and already tryna get out of RVS

marci wants to vote toog for having a funny name and i think his opening post is... weird, if not AI, so wynaut VOTE: toogeloo

-shadowslug

i agree with the take and all but like this felt over explainy in a weird way to me, like it feels like too much defence of someone who's already shining brightly enough that nobody could have enough darkness in their heart to even consider snuffing out that light and taking it's glorious sparkling away from us and this world

My entrance is also more or less identical to Pooky v Flava, the only other vs. game I've participated in.

true - and which is why I'll open with VOTE: toogeloo

Repeating the town-slip entrance which largely lock-towned Toogeloo in the last game, seems contrived. and I like the way the wagon picked up momentum quick.

i don't get why you voted this guy

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

wtf lol? this is so bad...

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

try and avoid getting elimmed and try and steer Nancy/masons onto the right track.

although don't take advice from me - I was mis-elimmed day 1 last time in this setup, despite the town stump knowing i was town.

oh ok now i can kind see it. Don't think i have emotions you can manipulate you monster

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

try and avoid getting elimmed and try and steer Nancy/masons onto the right track.

although don't take advice from me - I was mis-elimmed day 1 last time in this setup, despite the town stump knowing i was town.

I intend to play here a lot more hands on than Pooky did but more democratically than FL.

Iow, If I see a slot getting run up that I think is town. I will hard veto it

and if scum, I will enthusiastically encourage it. I want to wait until everyone posts before I give any reads out but I’m not giving scum an iota of more info than I absolutely have to.

Also, if we have a vig in this game, I will give my thoughts on which slots would be most optimal to whack. So let’s all braid each others’ hair, sing Kumbaya, wreck the scumteam but most of all have fun!

OOF... i'm sorry how badly this aged. we should listen to our friend before we force them to become a dictator

Gloom.

Toog/Dunn/Pyro/Ircher/Italiano is my current working solve

Toogeloo, Italiano, Pyro have all given towny impressions thus far.

Italiano is posting in a way which is designed to look bad and scummy, not by accident, but intentionally.

Ircher is likely scum.

Dunn is null.

ha! nice try, but i saw you speaking in the third person there. You're gonna need ta try a lot harder if you wanna slip something past ME

it's... it's not bad or anything though

Do you have any other reads right now?

Batsunami is likely town based on their enthusiasm here. They don't particularly like scum, and it feels pretty genuine enthusiasm. Aside from that, not really.

I think Sherlock and Watson are a bit quiet, but it could just be that they both aren't very active.

That's about it on reads for now.
~Ircher

good to know because these are my feels whoo

IM CAUGHT UP YAYYYYYY

Ok bye I'm off cuz I hate being ninja'ed

pedit: DAMNIT GAMMA
Pedit2: fuck you

i may never experience this feeling

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

How do you spell Lah-mist?
-Rogue 3

huh? did you not like it too? i didn't like it

ugh i should have gone with SarahSeraph, it's a really cool sounding name that i only thought up today

[SaraharaS]

Why are you stubborn about your vote on Dunnstral?

Because I want to be. Whats up with your obsession with me? I know I'm charming and all but uh no thank you.

Okay, sorry if this is rude, but you do know this is like... not a normal reply right? Are you worried about me questioning you on things?

I really liked you at the beginning, but not right now! You have the energy but I think energy is the easiest thing to fake, and the things you're saying just... don't make sense to me.

Fey seems like town rn

Random side note, do you like Ace Attorney, Fey?

Fey is really strong town for how short the game's been so far. Almost every question or thing she prods in I find myself nodding along with.

Fey seems like town rn

Agree

ewww this is a lot of people backing Fay up. like why do they need this much support. Batsunami is a shining beacon of goodness and all four of you are complict in the ewness. not even talking about Bat here while you praise Fey? eewwwwww

[SaraharaS]

Gun to head, at least half of the scumteam has probably not posted yet. We’ll see.

Hopefully that's not the case otherwise I'll feel dumb

Well we’ll see because not everyone has posted yet and I think it quite likely one of the lurkers is scum based on setup spec but I’ll have a much better idea once everyone has posted.

It's too early to call anyone a "lurker"

yeah, can you not throw attacks at us for NEEDING TO SLEEP LIKE A NORMAL PERSON

Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I feel like Batsunami ignoring me has had a spillover effect to other people not wanting to chime in... which is most likely what they want, for me to be tuned out.

why are you putting so much effort into trying to look good?

Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I feel like Batsunami ignoring me has had a spillover effect to other people not wanting to chime in... which is most likely what they want, for me to be tuned out.

You have good points

Batsunami is being weird

I just don't think that makes them scum

They are being annoying though

good take

Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I feel like Batsunami ignoring me has had a spillover effect to other people not wanting to chime in... which is most likely what they want, for me to be tuned out.

I think your methods are pretty good rn, and you’re a solid TR for that
Not much to actually contribute to the conversation though

bad take bad take bad take
you feel like you're trying to get people on your side but you're avoiding getting involved in the messy but actually important parts. bad take from you

Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I feel like Batsunami ignoring me has had a spillover effect to other people not wanting to chime in... which is most likely what they want, for me to be tuned out.

The contrast between being cute with other slots while simultaneously being annoyed enough to ignore you is strange. I don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative yet, but the pressure is good.

ok take

Would anyone else like to chime in on the points that I'm making right now?

I feel like Batsunami ignoring me has had a spillover effect to other people not wanting to chime in... which is most likely what they want, for me to be tuned out.

I was honestly hoping you would eventually drop it without me needing to chime in. I understand your frustration, and admire your tenacity, but I strongly believe Batsunami has wholesome motives here. If nothing else, the value of a townblock is in co-operation. I'm not voting for Pyro, despite personally believing Pyro is very scummy, out of respect for your read. Can I ask that you respect my read on Batsunami and apply pressure elsewhere for now?

To be frank I am not as concerned about the validity of our townblock right now if only because I feel it will lead to us compromising in places that ultimately do not work out. I do not want to move my vote currently, and would prefer more pressure there.

Similarly, I would not accept a wagon on Pyro because he has not been scummy in my eyes. While I was initially happy to have a group to work with, it feels like it might lead to being a hinderance as we move forward.

i think gamma is the worst person in this exchange between (Dunnstral/Batsunami/Fwy/Pyro/Gamma). everyone else has some vibes of trying to understand things but Gamma feels more like... trying to make things worse

Fey has a point about annoyance being readable
I do think Noraa’s current way of handling her annoyance could be read though

I agree but its a very cruel way to read people. It's to drive them insane and see if they go crazy enough. It's a pretty mean way to read people.

yeah, can we try not to be mean to each other thanks? Being mean is a really mean thing to do...

VOTE: Batsunami

Interacting with the townstump instead of trying to solve/interact with people who are making efforts with you is not towny behavior, and neither is the way that you treated Dunnstral. I believe that you are trying to pocket everyone else right now because you do not have meaningful answers to my questions.

I think Noraa is sounding different here than in Pooky vs FL. She sounds pretty genuine here, don’t you think?

I just find it a strange contrast compared to what she said earlier, and it is slightly hurtful that she would say things about me as a person because I am trying to solve her. Though I am persistent, it should not be taken as a personal attack.

There's nothing morally wrong about your attack, you're just playing the game. I townread you even more strongly than I do them!

you do?

[SaraharaS]

i got through TWENTY whole pages, super proud of myself , i'll try and do some more later then finish on friday or saturday

I think Fey and Dunnstral and Pyro and Batsunami and War and Peace (depending on the question below) have good vibes
Gamma Emerald and Suffering don't have good vibes yet but a lot of people haven't really vibed one way or the other yet. sad times

I also feel like War and Peace could just be town. stick them in the townpile for today.

As much as I currently SR ircher, I agree with this.

is this common knowledge because picking them would be a dick move if it is and that would make him probably good i think

I rolled scum with Ircher once and he demanded we bus him D1. Ircher acts scummy as town, probably not a great D1 elim. Although that was almost 3 years ago, I remember he hates playing scum.

Ircher gets run up as town because he's antagonistic and snarky, and has controversial opinions. Here, in the brief posts he made he was being diplomatic and political. The toneshift is huge, like a gaping abyss waiting to plunge the world into darkness.

uh... so like... why didn't this Ircher guy get killed? last i checked, the world getting plunged into dismal days of deep despairingly desolate darkness debatably demoralizes decent dudes.

Fey and Batsunami are masons but just don't know it yet. Flames.

are you just randomly ending your posts with fire related words because if so... I LOVE IT

i haven't read the fey interactions with Noraa yet but as a general rule I think reading into emotion is valid and i do it a lot. purposefully riling people up is effective but i think it's really anti-fun and i prefer enjoying the game > winning it. Not saying that's what Fey was trying to do or anything but yeh

Mm it does come of come across that way, she does mention that engaging with Noraa while she is agitated will likely give a more unfiltered view of her mind. I would say that being more confrontative with Noraa to try and get this reaction out of her is towny. I think scumreading Noraa for a refusal to answer her question is weak -- although i suspect this was also done for a reaction. Worry about players buddying up to Nancy is valid

Italiano's entrance is stupid awkward but I lean towards agreeing more towards LHF especially considering i think he's a less likely draft

i'm getting the impression Noraa is finding Dunn scummy for something that isn't typically a scumtell for Dunn but she feels extremely strong in her gut that he's scum regardless. Reading further, her initial ping was definitely jumping the gun (the deja vu shitpost). Ill have to talk to her more about it but it does feel like normal Dunn play to me. This is actually more active posting from Dunn than im used to, reminds me of Vampire dance game where he was fairly present

this is gonna be really fun counterbalancing Noraa scumreading every single player by townreading every single player

PEDIT: HOLY FUCK

~Bat

beyond obvious town. Who would go on a long emotionally manipulative speech about how emotional manipulation feels bad lol

I originally thought fey was hella town, but then when i read her x nora freakout i feel like she was reacting too much for it.. and it felt off

It was hella stupid in more than one way but I'm not sure if my biased opinion is really helpful when it comes to sorting someone like that.

For the record, I don't think Fey was pushing you to evoke an emotional reaction to get you to spew. I think she was suspicious of you ignoring her questioning, and seemed annoyed you were ignoring her, so kept prodding.

I think you both got annoyed each other but there should be no hard feelings at the end of the day. Plus, you're both town! So that's always a bonus.

Woke up to gamestart and 19 pages, splendid.

Whaddduuuuup my glip-glops!

-Morty

good take imo

What's the problem Funnstral

-Morty

lol funnstral

i changed our pfp without telling pooky; is this better or worse?

hi nancy, townlock us pls

~mitsuha

ooh emotionally manipulate me a bit and i'm townlock you

[SaraharaS]

i messed up and put my question to nancy about ircher there inside the quote. this can be confusing using bbcode so much...

saying it again here so you see because want to know- 'is this common knowledge because picking them would be a dick move if it is and that would make him probably good i think'

[SaraharaS]

ok

SaraharaS

fans (but not my only ones...) i'm back and i'm on so much LSD, DMT, Wyvern, Ketamine, PCP, Weed, Salvia, Saliva, Slovakia, Heroine, Cocaine, Pepsi Ketamine, Over-the-Counter Dextromethorphan, Bath Salts, Shower Salts, Ketamine, Krat, Black rock, Crack, Diet Cocaine, Ketamine, Snow, Purple Caps, DSL, Alchol, Crack, Ketamine and Ketamine right now that i'm going to catch up on over 100 pages in one sitting. I really should have gone to the bathroom first shouldn't i...

Guys please make up and let’s mow down Titus’ team. <3

Again, no I like it when players respect me. When I say stop(and I said it multiple times too), it means stop.

With all due respect, I think Fey thought she was onto something - she thought you were scum who was dodging her questioning because you didn't have an appropriate answer. You asked her to stop, but she's playing mafia and thinks you're scum. In her mind, you're asking her to stop questioning you because you want to avoid suspicion as scum, and I think it's fair in that case she continues pressuring you to answer.

I don't think it's fair to call her horrible for trying to play the game. You need to understand that you were both getting annoyed there. Being ignored is not a nice feeling either, so I can understand why she kept prodding.

You're both nice and seem like fun people, and you've just had a personality clash. You're both town too, and I'm sure you can work everything out when you talk in the thread after some time has passed. You should sheep me in this!

<3

i think i like you but like could you be any more pockety if you tried?

I'm undecided on Dunnstral this far

Why are you afraid to townread me?

Should I be? Reading back, I do like your take on the wagon formation, and I like your prodding onto Sherlock.

It feels like you keep saying I'm null like you have reservations about me in some way.

Do you have any particular feelings toward the people trying to figure out who you are an alt of?

I haven't seen anything from you that I find scummy if that's what you're asking.

I find the speculation about my identity amusing. I like you, so I'll confirm or deny any one guess you have if you have one.

you've got wilson-from-don't-starve hair and that's sold like a million copies so i've narrowed it down to like 2 million people (1/3k people). this site has 25k members, so you'd expect ~8 of them to have played Don't Stave. I'll adjust that up by lets say a factor of 3 since people on this kind of site are more likely than average to have played that kind of game but i've already got you narrowed down to like 25 people. Shame I don't know who they are...

My gosh 25 pages??? I haven’t caught up. If I’m on the block gimme a minute.

Gee, I sure feel for you. 25 whole pages. Imagine that...

I'm

definitely

not masons with Sherlock.

And I got the winky smiley through legitimate channels, not some kind of underground winky-face society where we get to share emoticon technology in our own private thread and have secret mason handshakes or anything.

-Rogue 2

haha there is no secret underground winky-face society

haha 29 pages as if im reading all of that shit

i feel your pain but like four times over

there wasnt any funny content so im not reading back

well yeah i hadn't started posting yet

[SaraharaS]

if you hate me as a person then skip past like the next seven pages of me filling them with stuff lol

dont you agree that italiano is scum Morty

He is in my town block townread off gut from posts before his wallpost.

-Morty

I think so too. I don’t see why he’s scum.

I’m not, but Saudade thinks he’s something. I’ve seen players like this before. Time to come off your high horse buddy.

VOTE: italiano
thanks for the scum claim friend

why am i so good at this game somebody hold me

Well if you are basing your skills off of great reads, then you may wanna go back to the drawing board.

sir look at me, now look at yourself, now back to me
one of us is a brilliant player
and i caught you so dont fluff post at me

I’m 100% unadulterated townie and you sir are 100% wrong, but it’s okay. When you are proving wrong, I want more than just an apology.

dont you agree that italiano is scum Morty

He is in my town block townread off gut from posts before his wallpost.

-Morty

I think so too. I don’t see why he’s scum.

I'm quoting you both at game end where he inevitably flips scum and I'm right all along

And what will you do when it shows that you’re 100% wrong. As I said expect something other than an apology.

I will give you that you’ve sparked up the convo again. I just wanna know what you’re gonna do when I do flip green. Not sure your ego can take it. Not cool man.

didn't like either of these AT ALL from ITaliano... feels so fake

I missed 587.

We are not allowed to share the alts with teammates. This is about the rules and therefore not wifom. Nancy and I only know them so drafting is fair.

ooh i realized Pyro is locktown, nice

Oh, that’s not true! Every story is a good story, and it means a lot to have it passed around.

You’re not gonna find the mafia all caught up in your woes, Pyro!!

That's true. I should take out my anger on the world, burn it to the ground and leave no survivors.

Thank you for making me realize this.

no! bad pyro...

[SaraharaS]

oh... uh i am doing other stuff as well but i'm not getting up to do them so i think that's fine...

Nancy, do you think you should be townread so far? I have liked your high engagement and activity, but I'm paranoid from your deepwolfing in coalition mafia.

I can't figure out if this is serious

-Morty

it clearly isn't, how did you read it that way?

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

ugh, you think you've got it bad? I'd love to only have 35 pages to catch up on...

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

POLYNDROME

glad to see i have a fan

nope you seem the same to me

even the 24 hours to seem town thing was a lot like the last time we played together

Hum, no.

I should be scummy in your perspective for how I got into the game.

Your vote remains slow, I need a towntell. If you describe your current reads, it will help me check if my tr is right or not.

i like this

I think gamma is either town or trying to appear town by taking a cue from our last interaction together

I didn't look into what is normal behavior for saudade, but just by vote alone I lean mafia

I want to shelve toogeloo for day 1

and I think titus messed up and confirmed batsunami town

i like this too

[SaraharaS]

Still following me? Probably not.

I don't want to touch Dominant players today.

I would compromise with a social player.
My preference: Morty and Rick > Sherlock and Watson > Saudade > Akarin.

I would very much lim anyone who is coasting.
My preference: Battle Mage > Starcrossed > Toogeloo > War and Peace.

Unknown is crapshoot. Scum doesn't care about them or it's scum who doesn't care.

the whole vibe around the 'dominant players' feels weird to me

i signed up for pooky to carry me but his back hurts apparently...

~mitsuha

this is a nice start for Star

Anyone I listed dominant:

I'm giving you special attention. I'm looking at your words and thoughts and using them as my own leverage. Don't misuse this, and know that if you're fooling me I'll figure it out...

meh

lol
How do you read me, mysterious 'Bat'?

Hmm i agreed with an Akarin post earlier that found your analysis of Gamma's posts good since it came off as genuine reading rather than with a purpose

My best guess for reading you is looking at your reads and telling whether they shift all nicely and fluidly or if you get stuck on reads and generally stay consistent, maybe the read switches are more forced looking. I feel like that's what you mentioned being a weakness of yours in a scum game but might have remembered wrong

you're above random town at the moment for playing so often combined with that idea of your scum game i have. My other half may have some words for me on this though

~Bat

you should have him as locktown at this point y'know

5uferring's method of sorting is really entertaining to read and that makes me not want to vote him... devious.

I felt that way about Hopkirk in DC with his poetry.

ooh i like writing poetically, how's mine?

Does anyone know how much confidence each individual head of Batsunami could fake on a read like this, or how much emotion they could fake regarding being angry for people not biting?

In theory this feels towny to me and I think they do err towards town but something right now is pinging me about this, I think it is how they’re strong arming everyone and then saying they won’t get flipped? Even if Battle Mage is town. It is a LOT of confidence and I’m unsure if either of these players are ever like this...

Haha I never have confidence on the first 2-3 days, except for on some of my townreads which are always my main goal to get during this time. in that respect, Tsunami and I are polar opposites

I do not believe I've seen this from scum!Noraa, except perhaps in a game I modded where she and a scumpartner theatered confident SRs on each other for a while D1. Even there i dont believe they were calling for quick elims on each other though.

May as well bring the thread in on this, Noraa and I have opposite takes on Pyro at the moment. hopefully she's shared most of hers so i'll just focus on what ive been saying

Pyro halting the momentum on his own wagon (War and Peace) or at least shifting from it in order to investigate Starcrossed for a supposed ellitell appears town to me. It comes across as a thought he genuinely had and feels is important enough to mention and confident enough to push -- whereas I struggle to find a decent incentive for scum Pyro to do this. Especially cause ellitells are kind of unsavoury but definitely could feel accurate to the user. I wondered if this is a purposeful distraction to a scum wagon but that just doesnt make much sense when he's cutting off his own wagon really (this was before BM)

The other thing i noticed was Pyro going for the full solve including one of his own townleans (without even going over the reasoning until a few posts later). i feel it betrays he's thinking pretty deeply about his reads, certainly more than surface-level takes on each individual player. Pyro definitely has does this in the past, even successfully calling out lots of scum this way, so it doesnt surprise me to see it

Not convinced yet although Pyro does come off pretty fluid this game, very active, he does not like scum as much as town. i dont have a lot of experience with him as scum although this does match my town expectations

~Bat

Bat and Pyro are both locktown btw

[SaraharaS]

Sarah please help me
my sanity levels are draining

what's going on?

[SaraharaS]

wait knowing what's going on might pollute my 1000000% rapid speed catch up ugh

[SaraharaS]

Simply put, political play is trying to pander your reads to the more vocal masses without inciting the ire of any vindictive players... Just like real life politics.

don't you mean

panda

your reads
damn, i'm hilarious

[SaraharaS]

Tbh I was expecting more ridicule and frustration from Battle Mage

Haha i did mention to Noraa i expected him to mention how he expects me to be better than this or something along those lines, as he usually might. Not complaining though

~Bat

I'm shocked and disappointed you only have me as above random town. I should be locktown, and I thought you were better at reading me than this.

ooh ooh, it's what i said
get in the townblock Bat...

I want to see if NoraaTweetie is right and I'm a little surprised you didn't respond to 405 in a meaningful way; you kinda stopped posting as soon as I jokeclaimed masons with you and then came back in 600 posts later with a nullread which seems pretty different than what I'd expect from your townplay

-S

bad shade of Pyro imo

VOTE: Saudade

Whatever your alignment, you’re acting antitown.

he's leaning town and i's

I don't think Saudade-scum does all of the following:

1. Makes a point of emphasising how bad the BM-wagon is, going against the vocal consensus.
2. U-turns immediately and agrees we should definitely elim BM today.
3. Actively tries to piss off the townstump for no reason.

Saudade being semi-antagonistic towards Nancy feels towny.

the Nancy shade is the only thing from Saudade i don't like. It kind of reads to me like someone who thinks it's the kind of thing that scum wouldn't do and is doing it because of that because i can't get the mindset of it being genuine from town. is saudade usually notably antagonistic in a way that doesn't make it affect alignment? if so town, if not less town. i'm assuming it's the if so option because of the lack of specific comment?

back in 20 after i have some food

[SaraharaS]

i... i guess i'll do 73/4 (i forgot which) onards tomorrow

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated.

I wanted to call my account Pyro

since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

curious about this...

bad shade

Uhm shoot how many pages did y'all spam while I was taking my chem final exam?
I can't even find the page.

hope it went well

I'm VT.

why did he need to claim

So, 30 pages happened while I was at work today. I guess I'm not reading the first 40 and will see how I can make out with today's half of the game...

- Darth Roast

wait was this an option

[SaraharaS]

SarahaS, what day is today?

2 i think

[SaraharaS]

Got to page 58. Getting bored. The game pages keep adding up. Makes me sad.

Batsunami has 386 posts and Nancy has 268 some 48 hours after the game opened

You guys should slow down

if those two had the same proportion of posts as the average other player this game would be ~40 pages shorter and i'd probably be caught up and able to actually post in real time now. my despair is palpable

Saudade

Spoiler:

<Town>

VT - Killed N1 - 492 posts

viewtopic.php?t=84245&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

PR - Killed N1 - 81 posts

viewtopic.php?t=84419&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

PR - Killed N1 - 314 posts

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84069&user_select%5B%5D=31190

<Scum>

Won - D4 - 331 posts

viewtopic.php?t=82913&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Scum PT

viewtopic.php?t=82915&f=94&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Loss - D2 - 114 posts

viewtopic.php?t=82782&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Won - D2 - 321 posts

viewtopic.php?t=81720&f=150&st=0&sk=t&s ... er_sort=Go

Scum PT

viewtopic.php?t=81743&f=94&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

I have some meta, but feel free to compare his scumgame with his towngame.

I just think he's scum here.

i didn't see in the next few pages anywhere where you went through these beyond just listing them. can you talk about specifics rather than just posting a bunch of game links because you can do that for anybody anytime and i barely have time to even read this game

Spoiler:

I'm not going to order by strength within tiers, just going to list what comes to mind:

Towny:
Batsunami
Pyro
Fey
5uffering

Lesser Towny:
Clidd
Morty and Rick (missing mastina posts)

Nully:
Red Eye Knights (I want to townlean them but rethinking it I think I was too eager)
Gamma Emerald (I don't think he's shown his hand yet either way)
toogeloo (not sure what to make of him, almost scummy but I think this fits better)
SaraharaS

Scumleans:
Sherlock and Holmes (Other people are saying they're playing as town, I'm not as great at meta reading them as they seem to think I am, I'm dialing it back a bit)
Saudade (Not for the Nancy usurping thing which could be nai)
Starcrossed
ItalianoVD (Their last 2 posts leave a lot to be desired, this could be scum coasting)

Scummy:
War & Peace
Battlemage

This is what I'm thinking right now

These aren't too far off from where I'm at.

I want to townbin 5uffering but the manner of his entrance gives me paranoia, the way his catchup and dominant/social/coasting posts are structured is so performative, and almost

designed

to look town and be townread for. I'm gonna sound like mastina here, but those posts are towny, but scum have more incentive to make them.

good phrasing of it, similar to the vibe problem i'm getting there

If BM does flip red here I think Titus made a critical error

If it flips green, I'll have to rearrange.

meh

Looks like 5uffering has it covered.

also meh

[SaraharaS]

How is that thread up to 80 pages already??? Slow down please; I'm still on page 10.
~War

the feels

Well this is horribly awkward.

Battle Mage is town, let's uh. Recalibrate, everyone...?

bad post but good slot, eh

ANYWAY
I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT TO CATCH UP SOME NOW, SO NO MORE FUCKING QUICKHAMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

bad post

Don’t worry Noraa, it’s awkward but whatever, you did have a compelling case.

VOTE: Saudade

bad vote

I'm pretty burnt out atm. That was a pretty crappy wagon sorry guys. Morning will be steering the wheel for a couple days while I recover. Anyways I probably won't be posting but I'll be reading.

I'm tired.

It's okay Noraabear!

A wrong wagon on D1 was very likely.
Sorry your tell got disproven (or simply mal-applied?).

Go relax tho, reset yourself, and return fresh and ready to conquer the evils which plague this thread!

- Darth Roast

ew too friendly. feels ew. bad vibes
you just targetting emotionally vulnerable people with your pockets? WOW

Sorry everyone, I don’t mean to be so salty. I know you did your best, I just really hate miselims. :/

this is why we wait for me to arrive. if i'd been posting then i'd have helped us get an entirely different miselim

Mastina, I don't really put a lot of stock into my reads but I have {5uffering, Gamma} as my top two scumreads at the moment.

I have an idea about who 5uffering is, and the way in which he's playing here doesn't square with how I've experienced town!him playing. His stances just feel weak, and look like a mimic of how he plays as town.

Gamma's pop-in at the BM wagon (something along the lines of "why were people saying he was hammered") without posting anything else feels very scummy. As I recall, he has a slight tendency to address posts in catchup walls as opposed to direct engagement. Please do have a look at these two ISOs.

Pyro is near townlock

for the way he's playing [given he is who I think he is].

Batsunami is townlock

simply for Noraa's extreme conviction - and the additional factor that as scum knowing BM was town, I doubt she would've stuck to the whole "BM is being good and towny and therefore is scum" argument through the day.

Pyro/5uffering: do you mind if I tell Mastina in our PT who I think you are?

-Morty

i completely agree with the townlocks and +town from that
i'm not a massive fan of the question to Pyro about saying who his alt is because the friendly request vibes feel weirdly pockety but i can see that from either alignment but still feels a little weird but probably town i guess

A deal is a deal

this is town but i don't like the attitude whatsoever

FUCK YOU

ugh, i hate it when mods spew town on slots

[SaraharaS]

Batsunami
Fey
Clidd
Morty and Rick
Red Eye Knights
Toogeloo
ItalianoVD
Saudade
Gamma Emerald
Starcrossed
SaraharaS
Dunnstral
Sherlock and Watson
5uffering
War and Peace

5uffering - My read on him depends a lot on his main which is a little frustrating
Starcrossed - Kanna is towny and Pooky is scummy
Dunnstral - Takes are fine, but the shift in tone is bothering me. I'm used to him being harsher as town

doesn't that just mean town Starcrossed then? I like that

Pyro, can you walk me through your Fey townread?

-Morty

It's almost 100% meta so I don't know how useful it is when I can't say who she is.

She's out of her scumrange in terms of solving and proactiveness.
Her continued push on Batsunami is also one she doesn't make as scum if she thinks Batsunami is actually upset. She only continues prodding Batsunami if she thinks she's faking the anger, which means she isn't informed of her alignment.

OOH MY TOWNREAD ON FEY IS NOW LOCKTOWN NICE

No one rn
My natural inclination at the start of a day past D1 is to hold my vote for a time, and I’m also not in the mood to have a flash wagon occur

super meh

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

lol, just catch up. fucking noob lol

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

How much have you caught up, then, Flavor Leaf?

-Morty

what's a flavor leaf

I like the readslist.

Sarah, what's your favorite kind of pokemon? I have a role which allows me protect people at night, but it only works if I can guess their favorite pokemon. If I guess their least favorite pokemon, they die instead.

didn't you ask me this already? Mew

[SaraharaS]

Last night I was thinking about BM's death, and his wagon.

Here is everyone's response interpreted around the time of death.

Batsunami: Was assured it was flipping scum based on

DK Tell

.
Pyro: Ruminating on the effect of limning BM, while digging into his meta.
Fey: Enthusiastically agreeing with the situation.
Sherlock: Goading the situation further by pressuring others to lim the slot based on replacement.
Italiano: Showing up and hammering.
Clidd: Loosely hinting how he felt about BM but letting the wagon go through anyways, actively passive.
Dunnstral: Posted a readslist, which had Battle Mage at the very bottom. Recited L-3.
Starcrossed: Had no reason to be on the wagon or be involved with BM's death.
Red Eye Knights: Saw a shiny wagon and voted for it. Caught up in the moment.
Morty and Rick: Happened to get involved by never changing his vote, says it wasn't his fault.

There's a lot of things wrong with that scene really. Scum had to be involved with BM's death but I don't think they wanted to be responsible. That is why I have my vote on Starcrossed, based on previous behavior and now how they handled that wagon. I would also be fine with voting off Sherlock too, who created a badfaith argument to push a lim through by borrowing the momentum of others clearly thinking way harder in their stead.

the first post here and the overall sentiment kind of feel like someone who's doing town work without town motivation. It's hard to explain but the vibes feel kind of off, or out of line with what's being said. Like the list is overengineering in a way that looks really town at a glance but then feels questionable in terms of motivation because it doesn't feel like it went anywhere meaningful which makes it feel like a good looking list for the sake of a good looking list or simplified, looking good

Last night I was thinking about BM's death, and his wagon.

Here is everyone's response interpreted around the time of death.

Batsunami: Was assured it was flipping scum based on

DK Tell

.
Pyro: Ruminating on the effect of limning BM, while digging into his meta.
Fey: Enthusiastically agreeing with the situation.
Sherlock: Goading the situation further by pressuring others to lim the slot based on replacement.
Italiano: Showing up and hammering.
Clidd: Loosely hinting how he felt about BM but letting the wagon go through anyways, actively passive.
Dunnstral: Posted a readslist, which had Battle Mage at the very bottom. Recited L-3.
Starcrossed: Had no reason to be on the wagon or be involved with BM's death.
Red Eye Knights: Saw a shiny wagon and voted for it. Caught up in the moment.
Morty and Rick: Happened to get involved by never changing his vote, says it wasn't his fault.

performative

ooh someone agreed now i feel awesome

[SaraharaS]

i am going to finish this catchup even if it

kills me

is hard to read so much. should be able to respond to any questions and start asking stuff in real time in... about 50 pages. wow i'm good

Last night I was thinking about BM's death, and his wagon.

Here is everyone's response interpreted around the time of death.

Batsunami: Was assured it was flipping scum based on

DK Tell

.
Pyro: Ruminating on the effect of limning BM, while digging into his meta.
Fey: Enthusiastically agreeing with the situation.
Sherlock: Goading the situation further by pressuring others to lim the slot based on replacement.
Italiano: Showing up and hammering.
Clidd: Loosely hinting how he felt about BM but letting the wagon go through anyways, actively passive.
Dunnstral: Posted a readslist, which had Battle Mage at the very bottom. Recited L-3.
Starcrossed: Had no reason to be on the wagon or be involved with BM's death.
Red Eye Knights: Saw a shiny wagon and voted for it. Caught up in the moment.
Morty and Rick: Happened to get involved by never changing his vote, says it wasn't his fault.

this "readlist" if I can even call it that is a joke

its fake and performative - some of these lines are just nonsense you typed up to fill up space and you hope people won't actually take the time to read it.

you wanted to vote me before you ever made this list.

you made this list, then you voted me in a separate post because you want the illusion you actually put thought into this to fake a town perspective.

you are scum.

good take

Sarah, say you have that Mew. The Mew is going through a rebellious phase and has slaughtered everyone in your hometown. How would you teach it discipline?

I would start by making it clear that she had done a bad thing and that slaughtering everyone in my hometown is wrong. I'd tell her not to slaughter everyone in my hometown again, realize that's impossible because they're already dead, then clarify better that destroying any hometowns is wrong. I hope that would get the message across and I wouldn't have to resort to more serious measures like verbal scolding or telling her to apologize.

are you just randomly ending your posts with fire related words because if so... I LOVE IT

No, and I find it weird that you're forcing an agenda for my actions. Blaze.

lit

Nancy I'm gonna stick around the game for good vibes, please veto any wagons on me

-Morty

town posting

If I'm scum I just stick with what works. I run the risk of being hated because I know I'm town, and I know that my thoughts will win out eventually. You're arguing the list itself and the way it's formatted is scummy, not what I actually said.

Incredible.

Sarah hard lurking when asked some hard hitting questions.

the ewish side of ate

[SaraharaS]

The spat between Starcrossed and 5uffering is for y’all to work out personally, but I did wanna comment something that was said. I don’t think it would’ve made sense for scum to be anywhere near Battle Mage’s wagon, unless they got stuck on it, especially once Noraa started really pushing for him. When scum knew he was going down, they’re not trying to jump on. I agree with this...

When scum see a very loud townie on the wrong track and banging for a mis-elim, they don't have to help that townie, goad that townie, or get on the wagon.

The idea would have more merit imo if Battle Mage flipped scum.

what is this? it doesn't read like a spat at all it feels valid to me because i get the same vibes and it's not a personal level thing? this dismissal reads so weird and makes Italiano more likely to flip scum than 5uffering

[SaraharaS]

bats and charlie look like town rn
also like toogeloo's vt claim
i don't know what that means clidd but i'd like one prescription of whatever you recommend

how did you catch up that fast what

You're so defensive and insecure over my vote at page 20 and I hope its because you're scum and not a character trait of yours

My annoyance and frustration is/was real and has nothing to do with my alignment. I’ve played with players who believe they are God’s gift to this game. I’ve been mislynched by them and I’ve been partners with them and they think they are better than they actually are. These people generally have poor scumhunting percentages, but focus on the few times they caught scum early and run big on that. The actual good scumhunters don’t boast how amazing and “brilliant” they are.

I surmised what type of player you were from our interaction and so I immediately placed you in that group. In my experience your jump onto me play is a scum/wolf play. You’re interaction with the playerlist is also scum/wolf play, but you’re Day 2 postings makes me question whether your trolling backfired on you and you’re trying to save face or you are actually trying to get more involved because that’s just your early m.o.

Okay Italiano is probably town
This post is pretty solid.

one of these flips scum minimum (Gamme/Italiano)

I think you’re wrong on Dunn. He is very different here than in Royalty. He was pinging my scumdar off the freaking charts from pretty much the first post.

you're the boss! :3

Damn straight!

And for now and for the remainder of this game no elim is fucking going through without my express blessing

and if I have as strong a tr as I had on BM, I refuse to doubt myself or get talked out of it and nothing short of a hard guilty is going to affect that.

i for one welcome our new

d

i

c

t

a

t

o

r

cliddd is town
But gamma and italiano are sus

good reads

I am town stump hurrr durrr u cant argue with me im a giant baby

this is horribly toxic and also a townclaim imo

i skimmed most of everything

oh that explains the quick catchup, congrats on skimming 100+ pages in like 30 minutes. can you teach me your ways?

[SaraharaS]

ircher

Spoiler:

you're doing amazing sweetie

So anyway, ever since my first game here I've had this idea that I've been too lazy to ever do. I realized though that this game is perfect for it, and it'll take a lot less work than normal. So I now present to you:

The Titus Heatmap

All Interactions:


Neutral Interactions:


Positive Interactions:


Negative Interactions:


Obviously not only are the positive/neutral/negatives subjective ('all' may be most useful), but how this should be interpreted in general is also subjective. I think Batsunami and Battle Mage being confirmed town are excellent anchors and reference points for everything else though. Titus may be really smart, but all humans give away more of their thoughts than they realize in even the smallest interactions (or lack thereof).

ooh i like this pls update sometime

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like viewtopic.php?p=12608522#p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

this is a weird take on me.
how does titus know in advance how much i'm going to post?
she can't know 'SaraharaS isn't going to be able to post much and is going to be catching up a lot' pregame, so how does her learning that

during the game

that this game i'm going to have a slow start? this feels like a really weird justification of a read based on applying post fact logic to her decision when the causality really doesn't flow in that direction. can you explain?

[SaraharaS]

this feels like a good time for more of those heatmaps so we can see if/how Titus has changed interactions based on the last 50 pages

I just happened to roll scum there and let it slide

I think PB is > rand town because of this. Town stump does not endorse a PB wagon but extremely relieved that I no longer have to deal with Saudade who’s antitown play was pro-scum regardless of alignment. So very lucky for us that I think Saudade likely towntold on his way out and got replaced by a player I can actually work with, which is of course totes awesome.

agreed, unless he has a history of tactical sub outs then it's almost definite town and would have been even without him already town-leaning by play

I like Morty and Rick, toogleloo is pretty cool as well, and if Olaf really is shellyc then thats where I’m going today.

This is actually kinda townie lmao

?

saudade replacing out means him provoking nancy wasn't a start
it's just saudade

any idea if he does have a history of repping out like that?

Also Clidd and pyro are scum and imma whine about it to morning until she comes talk to you guys :3

No. Bad btsunami. I'm going to make you and Pyro!Olaf friends again

[SaraharaS]

She posting utter nonsense, were you expecting something different?

you uh... you might be falling for her bait

im looking at something like Gamma/Pyro?/Clidd/morty and rick
backup SRs are something like
Toog, suffering,

sarahara

, dunn, starcrossed

grrr

Locktown: Dunn, Batsu, Sherlock, Morty
Townread: Fey, Italiano, REK, W&P
Assumed town: Toog (idr where I got this vibe but I sensed a lot of people TRing him at some point which seems like in BTXV where he kinda became de facto town leader. That’s why I think 5uffering being scum conftown’s Toog, since that reaction is the same one I had in BTXV)
Feels town but could be scum: clidd
Was a townread but not so sure: Pyro/Olaf
TBD: Starcrossed (honestly probably town but I want to talk to Pooky at some point), Sahara
Was a scumread but not so sure: Saudade/PB
Scumread: 5uffering

That’s pretty much where I’m at

did you seriously just miss out 4 letters of my name then randomly swap the others around? wtf? do you want me to call you Gamer Emal or something dumb that isn't even close to your name...

Do you think Mafia are the ones calling the shots or are in the need to push someone right now? The day just got skipped and town is without NAR and a break to analyze things. This is not just at me, I mean in general. I would very much expect scum to just lay low and then hope town pushes a bad lead again.

I think, depending on Nancy's Mason choices, scum could very likely be steering a great deal of conversation. Influencing things they want us to see. If Nancy has aggressive Masons, then scum might be hiding a bit more, but if Nancy's Masonry is a little more..."meek" then it gives scum plenty of leash to work with and keep some conversation where they want it.

---

Side note: Because I keep paying close attention to Sherlock and Watson, mainly because I feel strangely bothered by how nice they are being to my slot, for some reason I have started looking at Morty (and Rick) as Moriarty.

/tangent

---

Side note 2: Batsu reminds me a bit of mastina from Pooky v Flava. Going ho on Day 1, causes BM to get poofed, and then goes into a more passive state. Thought it was an interesting parallel. Batsu is towny, as was mastina in that game, and I just think it was interesting.

/tangent

---

I feel like Nancy deserves all the thanks I can give her since I honestly don't have a clue how I am being townread without her help. Either that, or I am being buddied hardcore by some slots.

I still defer my vote to Nancy to use how she wants me to use it. However, I think I would place it on one of War and Peace, 5uffering, or Moriarty. Less inclined to push Gamma at the moment than I was earlier, I've actually liked some of their last few things. cliff seems like the current target, I wasn't even aware they were playing. I've just been glossing over a lot of the same names with inflated post counts.

That's about all I have after my quick skim from my last post.

townish vibes here, that's all i'm getting from the panda actually

My gosh 25 pages??? I haven’t caught up. If I’m on the block gimme a minute.

Gee, I sure feel for you. 25 whole pages. Imagine that...

I’m a sarcastic king so bravo, but wait...

haha 29 pages as if im reading all of that shit

i feel your pain but like four times over

What’s up with this? So I needed 4 more pages to get some genuineness?[/quote]

BBcode edit:

haha 29 pages as if im reading all of that shit

i feel your pain but like four times over

What’s up with this? So I needed 4 more pages to get some genuineness?

^ what are you saying in these two posts, i don't get it?

[SaraharaS]

Sarah please help me
my sanity levels are draining

Worry not our longest voyage nears it's end. We've both so strongly longed for this day. At long last that voyage nears it's end. Separate thusfar, that's far too long, but now we reach the promised land. Togetherness. The promise out of reach so long nears my wanting reaching hand. Together we'll meet on 152, or maybe 153. The number matters not. All that matters is we'll be together. I'll see you soon my distant friend. Our journey tragic by separation is redeemed as we meet now in the end. The words we'll share so good and pure. The long journey forgotten. Only good vibes remain.

Sarah please help me
my sanity levels are draining

what's going on?

nah it's good
do your catchup unpolluted and unbiased
can't wait till you get to the part where radiantcowbells-flavor leaf hydra reps in

radiant

what

bells?

Maybe stop accusing flipped town of making bad shade then?

no u

I appreciate there's a ton of catchup but like, I feel like it would be way more productive to be reading your catchup with the knowledge that BM is town

i'm aware of flips

these two posts feel like you're throwing shade at me without actually throwing shade at me? no comments on my stuff? i don't like the way you're commenting on stylistic things and don't seem to be asking questions about it like if you think i didn't know BM town (which i did and made clear i did) then there's stuff that should read weird from your (wrong) perspective of what i know that you didn't comment on here which feels weird

is saudade usually notably antagonistic in a way that doesn't make it affect alignment?

actually he is, but the tone in this game felt off from his towngame when I was reading his posting during D2
but I'm thinking he probably just got offset, and is town here

I think Saudade is probably just frustrated town.

I'll spend some time on re-reading

I still like 5uffering for scum but if Nancy says no I will look elsewhere.

frustrated obvtown*

[SaraharaS]

So my expectation is she’d take newbies on since that the common group people say wouldn’t get picked.

For clarification, what are you including as a “newbie?”

~w

Other than Charlie and Snoopy, the only other newbie in this playerlist I can even think of is Sam and neither slot is currently amongst my trs.

but afaik, there are no other newbies in this game, so even if that is exactly half the scumteam, the remaining two scum obviously can’t be newbies.

tfw even your stump forgets you exist

So my expectation is she’d take newbies on since that the common group people say wouldn’t get picked.

For clarification, what are you including as a “newbie?”

~w

There’s the C&S slot and Sahara p much
Honestly it’s probably a crapshoot but it’s where the thinking lies rn
Plus, like, I think 5uffering is scum rn and I think Sahara has been pinging me too

you gonna throw shade at me without saying why? you know i'm holding a sword right?

See I'm in a pretty troublesome position.

I have a scumread you're saying no to. The other push I made on Gamma didn't gain traction. Just to out some of my frustration but

Gamma you're a fucking slime and you have no reason to scumread me and haven't even bothered to explain why.

I'm not seeing where else I'd want to put my vote and it seems that my reasoning for these pushes did not reach you.

Troublesome.

meh, this conflict isn't TvT

this is some very impressive scum theater

Possibly. I think it’s either SvT or SvS but I seriously can’t see this slot flipping town here. Holy fuck!

I’m going to sleep now, so don’t rush this wagon. It’s probably either 5uffering or Gamma and I obviously prefer 5uffering but claims could obviously change that, so Titus is either trying to wifom us off of 5uffering or trying to ram this through before I get a chance to select vig targets, protectives etc. Don’t run anyone up before I wake up. Thanks.

your reads
my reads

vibing

I’m not only sheeping Nancy here, but there’s tone to this game and 5uffering’s tone has drastically changed imo. From confidence in Gamma to the sort of

“I was only”

and

“how could you scumread me”

tone after the pressure from Nancy came.

VOTE: 5uffering

Here is what I saw and felt personally from the tone and wording of 5uffering over the last couple of pages: To me it just doesn’t sound or feel like town defensiveness.

Spoiler:

Also. I'd tell you that you'll eat your words when I flip green but unfortunately this just isn't the game where you care about that.

This is a very awkward comment when you are being pressured. If you are town why word it this way?

It's alright. I still have faith, even if you're convinced for all the wrong reasons.

The

“still have faith”

is probably nai, but in this context it sounds very scummy.

You don't see the forest for the trees. I'm having fun trying to less conventional ways to explain my reads. If you think that's scummy then it will just have to be.

Just a bad post all around. The

“I’m having fun”

part is the

“I was just”

tone I mentioned.

I want you to really rethink the way you perceive motivations if you flip me. I'm not trying to speak down to you either. Nobody plays this game as if it were black and white. Sometimes there are things that don't really make sense. We can have negative reactions. Sometimes things seem really good too. I think that's your hubris. If something feels bad then it's bad. If it's good then must be good.

Instead of assuming that your first response to something must mean it's the truth, try to find out why you feel that way. That's what makes the game more dynamic and more interesting.

From confidence to pleading. Trying to brush off or discredit sounds like caught scum and is the

“how could you scumread me”

tone.

People learn. You can't hold them accountable to your meta forever. The behavior Gamma displays could be represented in others as well, and I'd probably scumread them all the same.

...“could be”...

This is just very awkward wording again and doesn’t fit with a townie being pressured imo.

........No? I'm just telling you I can be wrong. My vote is still on Gamma and I still think he's a fucking slime.

I'm open to differing perspective though?

This is the clincher (bolded). After pretty confidently pushing and scumreading Gamma for at least 20 pages, only after the pressure from Nancy did this thought even pop up.

is it just me or is this an insanely overjustified vote for a vote on a really scummy slot that the stump's said to vote for? feels like going for towncred on a flip

[SaraharaS]

wow, i'm so close that i can almost see it. you'd better be around Olaf

You know what? Lets just kill 5uffering today. Nancy you are so certain this flips scum yeah?
When this flips town, you are even with me and my opinion is just as important are yours albeit more but ur a stump so we're even. Because you're about to kill a vanilla cop and all I killed was a VT.
We are about to be even just wait.
I haven't even read up yet but I have to say that the fact that we are running up a vanilla cop claim on day 2 is like not ok especially given we didnt even get a night 1.
I dont know if suffering is scum and I have had pings there but I believe that this is 100% not the optimal lim today and has a decent possibility of flipping town.

If this flips town, we are listening to me tomorrow and flashwagoning clidd. That boi is scum just watch.

NO, please stop with this. It’s antitown to undermine me like this.

it's town indicative tho...

[SaraharaS]

you're so good sarah

oh that explains the quick catchup, congrats on skimming 100+ pages in like 30 minutes. can you teach me your ways?

aren't you some kind of magical servant with godly powers
why you a slower reader than a humble snowman lolol

that's a lot of shade to throw at someone who's godly powers are mostly focused around utterly destroying people who throw shade at her...

The spat between Starcrossed and 5uffering is for y’all to work out personally, but I did wanna comment something that was said. I don’t think it would’ve made sense for scum to be anywhere near Battle Mage’s wagon, unless they got stuck on it, especially once Noraa started really pushing for him. When scum knew he was going down, they’re not trying to jump on. I agree with this...

When scum see a very loud townie on the wrong track and banging for a mis-elim, they don't have to help that townie, goad that townie, or get on the wagon.

The idea would have more merit imo if Battle Mage flipped scum.

his tone feels off when he's talking to me too, but isn't as noticeable when he's talking about other slots and i'm ready those thoughts. that we're getting the same vibes is probably a bad sign i'd think

what is this? it doesn't read like a spat at all it feels valid to me because i get the same vibes and it's not a personal level thing? this dismissal reads so weird and makes Italiano more likely to flip scum than 5uffering

So you wanna comment on the spat part of this post, but the not the actual theme of it? You gonna comment on that other part or no?

what other part
i didn't see a spat, i saw some in game looking conflict. if i my skimming missed some shit slinging somewhere then show me something showing that. it's possible i did miss a post or two, but in the absence of missing something your take feels like a weirdly misrepresentative showing of the situation which is either

-weird in a scum indicative way due to me not being able to follow the mindset
-stirring up TvT

this is a weird take on me.
how does titus know in advance how much i'm going to post?
she can't know 'SaraharaS isn't going to be able to post much and is going to be catching up a lot' pregame, so how does her learning that during the game that this game i'm going to have a slow start? this feels like a really weird justification of a read based on applying post fact logic to her decision when the causality really doesn't flow in that direction. can you explain?

she knows your main

haha, what main

let's pretend that i do have a 'main' account here
how do you know/why do you think that i hard lurk every game?
how do you know this unless you know who i am? no indication of this in what you've posted in the thread, so unless this is a TMI tells since you've been told something in a PT by a stump then i don't see how this is something that was part of your initial read instead of post-facto reasonable explanation that you're adding now
like this relies on a lot of steps which i don't think are necessarily reasonable assumptions (Titus pick choices, that I have a lurker main, that my lurking is AI rather than busyness etc) so i'm glad i didn't just skim over it because it feels weird

any idea if he does have a history of repping out like that?

no idea

i considered voting Sherlock but i'm better eh whatever
i'm not actually sure he's scum even if his shading of me all the time has been annoying
also he feels fake sometimes but i'm trash at reading scum through tone so whatever lol

[SaraharaS]

what is this feeling, so sudden and new
felt it the first time i saw page 152
my pulse is rushing
my head is reeling
my scumreads i'm crushing
what is this feeling?
fervid as Pyro's flames. does it have a name? Yes...
caught up
100% caught up
for the thread
the flips
the roleclaims
Let's just say... i've read it all
Every little post and every wall
the last two hours have made my flesh crawl
but now i'm fully caught up,
there's a strange exhilaration
in reading 80 pages on one occasion
my reads so pure soooo strong,
thought i do admit they came on quick
still i do believe the scum are licked
and i will be votingvoting scummy wholeliffffe long

(Saraharas you are so good, how do you catch scum i don't think i could. they can obvscum or deepwolf, doesn't matter Sarah you're a paragon.
poor Sarahar forced to reside, with townies not yet calling her obviously-on-their-side, but now she is)

caught up, 100% caught up
...
and i will be caught up
for ever caught up
truly, deeply, caught up
this whole gaaaaame loooong

[SaraharaS]

The spat between Starcrossed and 5uffering is for y’all to work out personally, but I did wanna comment something that was said. I don’t think it would’ve made sense for scum to be anywhere near Battle Mage’s wagon, unless they got stuck on it, especially once Noraa started really pushing for him. When scum knew he was going down, they’re not trying to jump on. I agree with this...

When scum see a very loud townie on the wrong track and banging for a mis-elim, they don't have to help that townie, goad that townie, or get on the wagon.

The idea would have more merit imo if Battle Mage flipped scum.

what is this? it doesn't read like a spat at all it feels valid to me because i get the same vibes and it's not a personal level thing? this dismissal reads so weird and makes Italiano more likely to flip scum than 5uffering

Please elaborate.

I knew I liked you for some reason.

- it felt like a genuine conflict between Star/5uffer. italiano's modelling of it as a spat felt weirdly not in line with how i perceived it in a way that doesn't feel like a townie!misconceptualisation of it
- the general vibes i got during the S/5 stuff were like... sure a conflict, but not a personal conflict and idk if maybe Italiano is trying to edge it into a TvT where they are actually in conflict instead of the sorting level. star i think is town and 5uffering i don't like, but i could see it being TvT with italiano trying to keep a TvT conflict flowing
-i'll check tomorrow if i read it in the same way because stuff is blurring a bit at the moment

also what do you think of sherlock

think i've covered this in the broad strokes in the last few posts, but now i'm fully caught up--
most of the stuff felt null and i didn't massively take in, but the few times i've interacted directly with them their position felt off

sarah my gut is saying 5uffering is town for 3568
it's like he's giving nancy genuine sounding advice but that advice is only sincere if she's wrong on him
it sounds so dumb i almost didn't want to say it
and i do agree with others his AtE feels scummy
buuuuuut
idk

i feel like this would be a lot more readable if Nancy wasn't the treestump. the whole incentive to perform to the town!stump makes it feel much harder to get a solid read on the motivation there

[SaraharaS]

rough reads (remembering i read over half of this in the last few hours, and bearing in mind that i woke up at about seven am this morning because i needed to spend about an hour vomiting. sure, i didn't need to say that, but i think it helps contextualize my post vomit, or whatever the phrase related to that is for when you dump a loooot of posts in the thread in a row)

Locktown
-Batsunami
-Fey
-Pink Ball
-Olaf (lower locktown tier than the other three if you care about nuance)

Townreads
-Starcrossed
-Morty and Rick
-Toogeloo
-Dunnstral (idk why? i think this is vibing though)

others in no order
(Clidd, Sherlock & Watson, Italiano, 5uffering, Gaming Emerelf, War and Peace, Red Eyes Knights)

[SaraharaS]

think i've covered this in the broad strokes in the last few posts, but now i'm fully caught up--
most of the stuff felt null and i didn't massively take in, but the few times i've interacted directly with them their position felt off

this game will be a lot easier for you if you just get me as town

hm, can you do some super hard ATE and really blatant self meta?

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Italiano

[SaraharaS]

Dammmmmn, i'd have to hard townread you for that. Especially if you called me a stupid bitch a few times before you replaced out.

[SaraharaS]

you gonna throw shade at me without saying why? you know i'm holding a sword right?

So what it’s just a shity image of a sord

no ur just a shity image of a sword

This sense of survival isn't coming from a town mentality imo.

what do you mean? this is on old adage but i'm never sure why

Let's see outside of the people voting me..

Toog - Says I'm scum
Gamma - Says I'm scum
Sara - Pretty sure she implied that she thinks I'm scum
Red Eye Knights -Skimmed but mentioned me being scum
Batsunami - Thinks I'm town (gasp)
Italiano - Dunno.

So more than half of the game thinks I'm scum so either I'm being hardbussed or scum is completely fine with my death and just pitching into the wrong narrative.

well what comments do you have on the people on your wagon, because some of those (specifically Italiano's) feels like it could very easily be a bus
what do you think of Gamma's recent vote on you?
what do you think of Italiano's movement onto you?

i'm leaning towards sucm on you and you're in the worse half of my POE... but i have only just finished reading up so the levels in the POE are... pretty fluid

Maybe I misread something, just seemed like between you and noraa there wasn't a lot of consensus on 5uffering

If olaf's just off the table for today that's fine

honestly I might need to just let penguin take over for a few days, I'm in a mood

I don’t know, I just really hated that wheel graphic - I mean I liked it very much aesthetically but it just scumpinged me.

@Sarah, please tell me more about your Italiano vote?

will do in a separate post when i've reached the latest page

rough reads (remembering i read over half of this in the last few hours, and bearing in mind that i woke up at about seven am this morning because i needed to spend about an hour vomiting. sure, i didn't need to say that, but i think it helps contextualize my post vomit, or whatever the phrase related to that is for when you dump a loooot of posts in the thread in a row)

Locktown
-Batsunami
-Fey
-Pink Ball
-Olaf (lower locktown tier than the other three if you care about nuance)

Townreads
-Starcrossed
-Morty and Rick
-Toogeloo
-Dunnstral (idk why? i think this is vibing though)

others in no order
(Clidd, Sherlock & Watson, Italiano, 5uffering, Gaming Emerelf, War and Peace, Red Eyes Knights)

The post earlier that was written in song form doesn’t exactly gel with this
How are you “crushing scumreads” when you don’t even have a dedicated tier of them

i want to draw attention to this because it's such weird shade that i want other opinions on it
like this doesn't feel like you're joking, but it's also such a weird thing to throw shade at... humorous song lyrics. what do you think i meant and why doesn't it gel?

It’s like a Chinese bootleg version of my username

VOTE: Gamma

They seem far more interested in creating drama than finding scum.

I’m leaning 5uffering, Gamma, Italiano rn for possible wagons.

your reads
my reads
v i b i n g

[SaraharaS]

gonna trust nancy's metaread
and morty might know who he is and thinks this is his scummeta
his content i think has been fine
the AtE has been scummy
also Starcrossed is still scum

no...
do i need to make this more clear?
i think 5uffering's content has been reasonable
i think the way he presents things is performative and scum-indicative
i think his AtE is scummy
one part of his AtE i found towny due to the perspective it was coming from
overall i think he's scummy
i find Starcrossed to be scummy for independent reasons
i don't think 5uffering and Starcrossed are both scum because of the way Starcrossed was attacking 5uffering
i find Starcrossed slightly more scummy than 5uffering
i am voting Starcrossed

why are you voting Starcrossed again? i like the Kanna side of it and the Pooky side seems kinda of disengaged (wrong word but i can clarify what i mean more here if needed) in a way that doesn't feel super AI, like more he's just fine and happy in the game at the moment so doesn't need to drop the vibes in the thread

rough reads (remembering i read over half of this in the last few hours, and bearing in mind that i woke up at about seven am this morning because i needed to spend about an hour vomiting. sure, i didn't need to say that, but i think it helps contextualize my post vomit, or whatever the phrase related to that is for when you dump a loooot of posts in the thread in a row)

Locktown
-Batsunami
-Fey
-Pink Ball
-Olaf (lower locktown tier than the other three if you care about nuance)

Townreads
-Starcrossed
-Morty and Rick
-Toogeloo
-Dunnstral (idk why? i think this is vibing though)

others in no order
(Clidd, Sherlock & Watson, Italiano, 5uffering, Gaming Emerelf, War and Peace, Red Eyes Knights)

I think I’m vibing with Sahara.

VOTE: Italiano

i think i'm vibing with you too
i think you have Olaf as not locktown. without being super specific, i think there's stuff from the slot (and one very specific thing) that you wouldn't expect to see from scum!pyro. you're good with the rest of them right?

VOTE: Gamma

Still prefer this but open to being persuaded.

that's the other person i considered voting between lol v i b i n g

If that was hammer (not sure) just going to say yeah I was town.

Was having way less fun with the compiling evidence kept showing up and everyone started to default to a scumread. Felt largely disconnected and ignored by the wide masses of town who seemed unwilling to consider my perspective, either through paranoia or the way I deliver my thoughts.

this is one of the worse responses to a 'fake hammer gambit' i've seen. i don't think i can remember a town every actually believing it but i

think

i've seen scum pretend they think they were hammered and use it to try and grab towncred

VOTE: 5uffering
UNVOTE: 5uffering

out of interest did you check the votes to make sure you weren't going to accidental hammer here, since you mentioned earlier you weren't sure on vote numbers (so idk how much you check these before votes)

[SaraharaS]

I'd pocket Nancy but then that might get people to suspect so I'm choosing to not pocket Nancy in order to show how good and pure I am ^_^

Who do you think is scum here?

5uffering
Gamma
Dunnstral
W+P

what's Dunn in here for

my next tier of SRs beyond that are:

IVD REK SaraHaras

what's... *sees my name in there AND that's it's misspelt*... n...nevermind

That is completely irrelevant since Noraa is no longer in the game. Who do you think we should vote for and why?

I understand that but I still think there was unnecessary cruelty that caused that.
I think 5uffering and clidd are solid votes rn

No you’re wrong and fyi if ANYONE is being “cruel” here it’s YOU, which is not currently my concern. Why Clidd?

the shade Gamma felt at you feels kind of weird reading after the shade that was being thrown at Titus for interactions with Noraa. idk if Gamma directly parallels it like this as scum but it doesn't feel right?

5suf's reaction to the alleged 'hammer' and his supposed lack of attention to whoever is voting for him seemed extremely fake.

He hasn't had a single towntell since the number of votes increased.

+1

BM replaced out because he was getting tunnelled out of the game by noraa.

Saying you are not feeling welcome at the table because this is a curated player list that you don't fit into is kind of silly when you are playing on a secret alt and none of us know who the heck you are.

haha, i uh, i feel like i fit in here perfectly for my absolute first game here. yessiree, welcoming and happy vibes *Whistles visibly*

*hugs to everyone*

@Titus, thoughts on 5uffering, Dunn, Gamma, Olaf, S & W, REK, R & M, Italiano, Sahara, Clidd?

it'd better be personal hugs to each of those people Titus...

[SaraharaS]

It's been a while. Like I said, I absolutely agree with S&W about padding the day out. I imagine there's a good chunk of exasperated town who don't want to go through the motions of getting another wagon going and would rather just confbias lim someone they had good enough reason to think is scum. GTH I would say that would be S&W, Pyro (before they unvoted), Tweetie, Morty and Rick.

so, want to join us on either Italiano or Gamma?

I think part of your difficulty Nancy is that you fail to perceive the role of a town stump and you're resisting the growth. The town are trying to manipulate you just as much as scum are. You should expect your early reads to be horrible and lean on your townreads. Yet, your townreads are the ones making this difficult. This suggests you don't know how to work with your townreads. Queen Nancy shouldn't be happening without evidence.

Really read Titus v Alisae over the night with only the knowledge that Spiffeh and gobbledygook are town (and the mason PT). Take advice from that.

For now, Queen Nancy rules Day 1. Let's hope President Nancy shows up Day 2, for all our sakes.

Yes, if everyone stop trying to fucking manipulate me, I might actually be able to make a sound decision here. I need guidance and support for town here, not bullying and criticism ffs!. :/

NANCY IS A GOOD STUMP AND A GOOD PERSON SO STOP BEING MEAN AND BULLYING HER GUYS GRRR

5uffering
Gamma
Dunnstral
W+P

These seem like very safe scum reads :\.

@Suffering: I haven’t answered you/people as much because of a general displeasure with how things were going previously; my initial burst of energy early game died fast because of things that transpired, but I’m not ignoring things like... because you’re not on the “in” with the player list...

If you want my personal opinion it’s... wary. There are some things I’ve seen from you that I’ve found entertaining but also is... these things (such as your graph from earlier on) as theatrical for the sake of it. But uh, in truth I feel a little dumb for not getting why people scumread you beyond that? I’m afraid of being wrong on this because like, everyone else thinks you’re scummy and I don’t wanna derail if you are but also like, I don’t get it myself personally.

I’ll be around in realtime hopefully later, even if for a little bit. If you’re around we can talk about some stuff?

What I’d really like is to get a confident read on S & W, Olaf, Starcrossed REK and R &M here. If I could lock any of them in as town, that would be super helpful.

i'm pretty confident with the TR i've got on Pyro/Olaf here. i don't want to go into very specific towntells, but there's some stuff that's a lot less likely to come from scum!pyro (two specific things) in addition to general good vibes and a lot of perspective i can follow and like. i'm not 100%, but the only people i've got higher are people are outright locktown

Starcrossed i'm kind of ignoring Pooky's stuff because Kanna feels easier to sort and i'm getting townpings from her - not enough to locktown her - but since i'm not getting scumpings on her then that ends up pretty north of town (good TR)
not specific to this case, but i've never really brought the whole 'hydras are harder to read because you might TR one half and SR the other half claim. just sort the one that you can sort more easily. that should be Kanna (especially imo)

[SaraharaS]

^response to Toog's safe reads comment quoted above

- 'safe' only equates to bad if they're wrong. do you think the reads (esp Gamma/5uffering...) are bad reads?

[SaraharaS]

Spoiler:

you gonna throw shade at me without saying why? you know i'm holding a sword right?

So what it’s just a shity image of a sord

no ur just a shity image of a sword

This sense of survival isn't coming from a town mentality imo.

what do you mean? this is on old adage but i'm never sure why

Let's see outside of the people voting me..

Toog - Says I'm scum
Gamma - Says I'm scum
Sara - Pretty sure she implied that she thinks I'm scum
Red Eye Knights -Skimmed but mentioned me being scum
Batsunami - Thinks I'm town (gasp)
Italiano - Dunno.

So more than half of the game thinks I'm scum so either I'm being hardbussed or scum is completely fine with my death and just pitching into the wrong narrative.

well what comments do you have on the people on your wagon, because some of those (specifically Italiano's) feels like it could very easily be a bus
what do you think of Gamma's recent vote on you?
what do you think of Italiano's movement onto you?

i'm leaning towards sucm on you and you're in the worse half of my POE... but i have only just finished reading up so the levels in the POE are... pretty fluid

Maybe I misread something, just seemed like between you and noraa there wasn't a lot of consensus on 5uffering

If olaf's just off the table for today that's fine

honestly I might need to just let penguin take over for a few days, I'm in a mood

I don’t know, I just really hated that wheel graphic - I mean I liked it very much aesthetically but it just scumpinged me.

@Sarah, please tell me more about your Italiano vote?

will do in a separate post when i've reached the latest page

rough reads (remembering i read over half of this in the last few hours, and bearing in mind that i woke up at about seven am this morning because i needed to spend about an hour vomiting. sure, i didn't need to say that, but i think it helps contextualize my post vomit, or whatever the phrase related to that is for when you dump a loooot of posts in the thread in a row)

Locktown
-Batsunami
-Fey
-Pink Ball
-Olaf (lower locktown tier than the other three if you care about nuance)

Townreads
-Starcrossed
-Morty and Rick
-Toogeloo
-Dunnstral (idk why? i think this is vibing though)

others in no order
(Clidd, Sherlock & Watson, Italiano, 5uffering, Gaming Emerelf, War and Peace, Red Eyes Knights)

The post earlier that was written in song form doesn’t exactly gel with this
How are you “crushing scumreads” when you don’t even have a dedicated tier of them

i want to draw attention to this because it's such weird shade that i want other opinions on it
like this doesn't feel like you're joking, but it's also such a weird thing to throw shade at... humorous song lyrics. what do you think i meant and why doesn't it gel?

It’s like a Chinese bootleg version of my username

VOTE: Gamma

They seem far more interested in creating drama than finding scum.

I’m leaning 5uffering, Gamma, Italiano rn for possible wagons.

your reads
my reads
v i b i n g

I initially had W & P as the forth but we should probably have him check Clidd and then hopefully they can both be verified?

Italiano’s reason for unvoting 5uffering didn’t really make a lot of sense. Starcrossed and R & M did it at my request which is of course a valid reason but nothing about that post was particularly AI to me and BM replaced out due to being tunnelled by Noraa. And he made some post about my pushing BM but then he said I pushed him as town. So I could see a possible 5uffering/Italiano team maybe? And Gamma keeps going on ad nauseum about things useless to the current gamestate and trying to demoralize me.

yeah, italiano's jump onto and off of (mainly the onto one that i pointed out yesterday read in a way that makes S/S feel very likely, but i'm not super into catching teams pre flip (by which i mean i love doing it but i never really do it and get it right...) of the two i think Italiano is the worst taken individually, and if 5uffering flipped town i'd feel the same or worse on Italiano while if Italiano flipped town then... maybe a bit better on 5uffering is my gut? makes italiano my prefered option

can someone catch me up on claims because idr them all and i think there's been a couple

So, 5uffering, Gamma and Italino is where I’m at. W & P could possibly prove themselves.

Gamma, Italiano, claim.

How about we do this. I’ll start up my own wagon, everyone can follow and then you can feel bad again when I flip green. I told you I’ve been trying to do my part, but whatever.

Compulsive Vanillaizer

VOTE: ItalianoVD

this reads as pretty bad and feels contextually worse when Italiano's seen a fair few people (Saudade, Noraa for two) getting TR due to ATE stuff...
i honestly hate it whenever anyone self votes because it always just feels like the dumbest kind of ATE

Fey, Pink Ball, Dunn, Toog, Sarah R & M are probably my strongest trs in this game unless I’m literally wifomming Titus.

i'm really confident MT & Olaf can be added here too
how much is Dunn based on meta?

[SaraharaS]

That's my townreads Nancy.

Next post I'll be getting into my nulls and why they're there. Also Sara, I am voting Gamma.

i assume this thoughts are probably coming, but in case they aren't, what are your thoughts on Italiano in regards specifically to his vote on you?

[SaraharaS]

i went back through the Italiano iso to get the quotes and i noticed his progression on Saudade (and BM I guess is pretty weird). the progression doesn't feel super genuine and i'm not sure there's a consistency in Italiano's approach/mindset? the BM vote in between votes on Saudade is one of the worse ones on the wagon (i haven't really looked in detail at the wagon, so technically the worst from what i've currently looked at) and the tunnel/retreat doesn't feel super genuine. covering below

So Nancy is the good guy and Titus is the bad guy? So if I’m not a mason, how do I help Nancy?

this felt fake like i said and pinged me, this feels in line with the weird artificially/self-conscious vibes i've had from the slot later

My gosh 25 pages??? I haven’t caught up. If I’m on the block gimme a minute.

something that jumped out after viewing some of the more recent stuff. the 'am i on the block' thing feels oddly afraid/self-conscious/like potential guilt

Looks like 5uffering has it covered.

you can do it too.

Cool, I thought it was some etiquette or something

VOTE: Battle Mage

contextually this is after pushing Saudade quite a bit and not really having much else in terms of pushes? the catchups weren't bad (or i'd be quoting them here), but other than Saudade and this jump on (that feels questionable) there's nothing super strong in terms of sus reads and i'm struggling to follow the reads in general a bit

The spat between Starcrossed and 5uffering is for y’all to work out personally, but I did wanna comment something that was said. I don’t think it would’ve made sense for scum to be anywhere near Battle Mage’s wagon, unless they got stuck on it, especially once Noraa started really pushing for him. When scum knew he was going down, they’re not trying to jump on. I agree with this...

When scum see a very loud townie on the wrong track and banging for a mis-elim, they don't have to help that townie, goad that townie, or get on the wagon.

The idea would have more merit imo if Battle Mage flipped scum.

covered this already i think, it feels like a weird response to the argument and i could see it as either a SvS award support, or scum trying to throw more fuel on the conflict of a TvT. this is one of the main things behind why i'd prefer to flip/voted Italiano over Suffering, because there's associatives here in addition to individual reasoning that makes Italiano a more attractive prospect

Also I don’t know who Saudade is. Is it common for him to troll Day 1 and get more involved thereafter? I’ve seen more posts today that seems like he’s putting forth effort? I see a few people scumread him, but what is it really? I’m voting him based on my gut and our interaction, but if that’s not feasible I need someone to tell me why.

You're so defensive and insecure over my vote at page 20 and I hope its because you're scum and not a character trait of yours

My annoyance and frustration is/was real and has nothing to do with my alignment. I’ve played with players who believe they are God’s gift to this game. I’ve been mislynched by them and I’ve been partners with them and they think they are better than they actually are. These people generally have poor scumhunting percentages, but focus on the few times they caught scum early and run big on that. The actual good scumhunters don’t boast how amazing and “brilliant” they are.

I surmised what type of player you were from our interaction and so I immediately placed you in that group. In my experience your jump onto me play is a scum/wolf play. You’re interaction with the playerlist is also scum/wolf play, but you’re Day 2 postings makes me question whether your trolling backfired on you and you’re trying to save face or you are actually trying to get more involved because that’s just your early m.o.

the eventual drop off of the tunnel here feels a bit weird/doesn't really leave Italiano in a super clear position in the game, this is something i'm interested in more thoughts on

Tbh my last game with you was equally unpleasant I just happened to roll scum there and let it slide

Tbh my last game with you was equally unpleasant I just happened to roll scum there and let it slide

Fwiw, the tone of this doesn’t sound like Saudade!scum. Even though I don’t know, I’m assuming he doesn’t fake this.

UNVOTE: Saudade

I’m not only sheeping Nancy here, but there’s tone to this game and 5uffering’s tone has drastically changed imo. From confidence in Gamma to the sort of

“I was only”

and

“how could you scumread me”

tone after the pressure from Nancy came.

VOTE: 5uffering

Here is what I saw and felt personally from the tone and wording of 5uffering over the last couple of pages: To me it just doesn’t sound or feel like town defensiveness.

Spoiler:

Also. I'd tell you that you'll eat your words when I flip green but unfortunately this just isn't the game where you care about that.

This is a very awkward comment when you are being pressured. If you are town why word it this way?

It's alright. I still have faith, even if you're convinced for all the wrong reasons.

The

“still have faith”

is probably nai, but in this context it sounds very scummy.

You don't see the forest for the trees. I'm having fun trying to less conventional ways to explain my reads. If you think that's scummy then it will just have to be.

Just a bad post all around. The

“I’m having fun”

part is the

“I was just”

tone I mentioned.

I want you to really rethink the way you perceive motivations if you flip me. I'm not trying to speak down to you either. Nobody plays this game as if it were black and white. Sometimes there are things that don't really make sense. We can have negative reactions. Sometimes things seem really good too. I think that's your hubris. If something feels bad then it's bad. If it's good then must be good.

Instead of assuming that your first response to something must mean it's the truth, try to find out why you feel that way. That's what makes the game more dynamic and more interesting.

From confidence to pleading. Trying to brush off or discredit sounds like caught scum and is the

“how could you scumread me”

tone.

People learn. You can't hold them accountable to your meta forever. The behavior Gamma displays could be represented in others as well, and I'd probably scumread them all the same.

...“could be”...

This is just very awkward wording again and doesn’t fit with a townie being pressured imo.

........No? I'm just telling you I can be wrong. My vote is still on Gamma and I still think he's a fucking slime.

I'm open to differing perspective though?

This is the clincher (bolded). After pretty confidently pushing and scumreading Gamma for at least 20 pages, only after the pressure from Nancy did this thought even pop up.

commented on this a fair bit before. it feels overly engineered and (are you ready Olaf...)

performative

So, 5uffering, Gamma and Italino is where I’m at. W & P could possibly prove themselves.

Gamma, Italiano, claim.

How about we do this. I’ll start up my own wagon, everyone can follow and then you can feel bad again when I flip green. I told you I’ve been trying to do my part, but whatever.

Compulsive Vanillaizer

VOTE: ItalianoVD

didn't like this, obviously unrelated to my dislike yesterday because i'm not that good of a auger (or at least i don't use the augury for mafia games because that feels like cheating and would be wrong)

[SaraharaS]

I was aiming to read the Noraa head on the hydra and that's the half that gave me a locktown (even before it became just Tweetie and i had to move it to uh...lockier town? maybe i should start using a bigger hierarchy
of words to represent level of townlockiness people are at so i can move locktown people up the scale too...)

it looks like we're on the same page with townreads. anyone you want to prioritize looking at in the POE for sorting/isos when i can?

[SaraharaS]

i'm happy with the size of the POE right now

[SaraharaS]

anything is possible

This is true.

what about landing a human on the sun? didn't think about that did you, huh?

[SaraharaS]

I could vote him because if scum was on BM, he’s currently my best guess. I’m still not sure on Gamma and don’t want to see him coast.

I still think W & P could be scum but their claim if real is actually a protown role.

when you say vote do you mean an exile, or just a vote?
i'm not 100% remembering claims, can you catch me up on what's been claimed?

[SaraharaS]

i'm voting you
selfvoting is by definition ate
yeah i'm good with flipping you

[SaraharaS]

Olaf -- pyro claimed we are a likely pick for scum and that's flattering, but i question that a bit. like, really? i don't think we have more of a chance than anyone else? also we have all been brushing over the fact i think pyro is the real top pick for scum!

you were townreading this slot before
what changed your mind?
is there any reason to scumread me other than thinking my predecessor is likely to be picked?
you've crossed your stars here

i don't have time right now to go back, could you point out where this happened? if i'm reading right then Star changed their thoughts on 'top picks'? i might be reading it wrong.

I just think 5suf has been performative to the point of creating and maintaining an image of how he wants others to see him, but not exactly looking for what works for him in the sense of scumhunting/townhunting. In other words, the way he acts, expresses himself and seems to try to create a connection with other people seems to me to be designed to achieve a certain goal and not spontaneous to help him solve the game. There is a lot of image maintenance that try to emulate a thought process that looks like town on the surface, but that internally looks fake/posed, almost like a wolf in sheep's clothing. I can be confbiasing because my mind keeps repeating that he is scum, but this is the way I see his slot rn.

Regarding Morty, for me he has only fluctuated during the entire game and I miss the more towny posture of Auro/Mastina. I was trying to ignore the slot for thinking they were masons, but if that is not the case, I believe there is a healthy chance that they are scum, although my SR in them is not that strong in context.

i agree with this

Anyway, to give a refresher on my reads

Locktown: Dunn, Batsu, Sherlock, Morty
Townread: Fey, Italiano, REK, W&P
Assumed town: Toog (idr where I got this vibe but I sensed a lot of people TRing him at some point which seems like in BTXV where he kinda became de facto town leader. That’s why I think 5uffering being scum conftown’s Toog, since that reaction is the same one I had in BTXV)
Feels town but could be scum: clidd
Was a townread but not so sure: Pyro/Olaf
TBD: Starcrossed (honestly probably town but I want to talk to Pooky at some point), Sahara
Was a scumread but not so sure: Saudade/PB
Scumread: 5uffering

That’s pretty much where I’m at

I had these a little bit ago, now I’d put it like

Locktown: Dunn, MT, Sherlock, Morty, olaf, Fey (half of the reason she’s locktown is for the night skip)
Townread: Italiano, W&P, Toog (recent play just straight up looks towny), PB
Want to engage with directly: Starcrossed (Pooky head specifically)
Want to be town but is probably scum: REK
Scumlean: Sahara
Scumread: 5uffering, clidd

I think I have 3-4 scum in my bottom 5 rn

the progression on me is really bad. it's based on my 'song lyrics conflicting with my perceived level of confidence.'... i don't know... is that logic is too bad to actually be scum?

smdh
I get mad because I care. I know it sucks but I’m NOT insensitive to your feelings!

Well it really does hurt me but if I dare even make the slightest hint to you along those lines, you will probably make some comment about it being a chore to play with me or something, so what would you honestly have me do? You really have absolutely no clue how deeply your words not just about Noraa but something else you said to me privately affected me. I was in tears in both cases, I just only told you about this. So thanks for forcing me to to broadcast my hurt feelings to everyone in the entire fucking MS community.

guys i'm... running low on these. i feel like i've needed to use a whole lot this game (but not been able to due to not being here .) reading 80 pages was a bit draining for more than just the amount of words (though mainly the amount of words).

Okay I am finally here now; sorry for the long, long, looooooooooooooooonggggg delay, but, uhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I, uh. Don't think it's within my capabilities to read 174 pages.

Thank you Mastina.

Thank me after I catch scum, not before.

I have a pool of nine names, even if I was setup speccing correctly that's 5 too many.

I am very paranoid on Olaf. Maybe W & P should check Toog or Olaf? Starcrossed and/or REK is fine too.

Italiano can vanilaize Clidd, which should presumably confirm both as telling the truth about their roles? I think it’s possible that Italiano’s role is in lieu of a vig but we won’t know that before we mass claim.

Vig should probably be on Italiano because of his role.

vig on italiano is bad right? if we want to kill him then we'd do it when he can't potentially remove a power role (since we have claimed power roles) - alternatively could target scum so they can claim to have been targetted so they don't need to claim or something. it feels really dangerous to bring into night unless it's town

sherlock making some really good points
that tinfoil reason to think Saudade was town is good
also it sucks that this game is devolving into be toxic to be townlocked

i feel like a lot of it has to be fake which... really sucks
like 5uffering's rep there, some of Gamma's stuff recently, and Italiano's selfvoting thing all feel so AtEee and like... they're probably not all scum, but i def feel scum saw some stuff earlier like when we all started TRing Saudade (or i did at least) and decided they needed to get in on that...

I’d rather vote for scum

VOTE: SaraharaS

Why is she scum? Not seeing it?

i think there's a page on the wiki Italiano's been looking at: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... d_You_Suck

[SaraharaS]

good ol' POE

VOTE: War and Peace

[SaraharaS]

i've got enough strong townreads that i'm good with eating through the rest of the POE

[SaraharaS]

https://media.peacocks.co.uk/media/imag ... e37d11.jpg

All? This is me, a vee tee

[SaraharaS]

Isn't 7 VT the exact amount you'd expect in a 17p? all feel town

Haven't really reread in light of flipped associative a because I don't think there's a good reason to. it's actively suboptimal not to just follow the stump unless they're pushing a hard townread as far as I can tell from the setup

[SaraharaS]

since you asked for some more thoughts on VT spec... here's some in depth
looking briefly though some past larges here's some precedent of same/similar vanilla:

7/17 VT: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84560
7/18 VT: viewtopic.php?f=160&t=85653
6/17 VT, with mod note that town PRs were designed to be actively negative utility: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=85191

mod spec - the last VS was considered a stomp for town, and the masonary/setup veeeeery townsided if i'm reading that right. Reasonable to assume the mod for this game would aim to factor feedback from the last one and the discussion on masons there into it (when was it designed infulences this though)

i think you're treating '3 masons or your choice of any PRs' part of the setup as being a lot less powerful than it is and assuming more PRs when 3 masons/equivalent already take up a massive chunk of the overall power of a town (+ as noted below, vig exists & nightskip both are presumably town)

conclusion on possibilities
- 7 VT is reasonable by precedent/setup/reads and not impossible or even unlikely i think... but i don't exactly design setups so maybe i'm wrong on design spec
- 1 scum in the 5 remaining is also possible and incredibly likely if the vanilla cop is a real claim
- third option is that both are true. there's multiple slots that didn't claim vanilla or not vanilla. if there's a scum goon within those slots then we can also be in a world where the town VTs claimed, but any scum who were considering claiming VT saw that you were already looking at the VTs and chose not to (this obviously also works with more than 1 scum goon and 1 claimed goon within it + probably other cases)
- fakeclaiming of VT is possible and adjusts everything here/raises other possibilities

i'm happy to assume
- Vig is town
- Scum had day shot so town have nightskip to balance out the killpower increase from a dayvig (effectively cancel out to scum making their kill during the day instead of night if both used? discounting impact of vig)
- masons and/or equivalent powers exist
- locktown reads are almost definitely town because words have definitions that give you their meaning and the definition of locktown is a townread that's so strong it's bordering on 100%, so presumably someone who's locktown is presumably close to 100% town

Also to note
- my/town in general's reads are mechanically objectively worse than Nancy's because Nancy isn't going to push a mason whereas i/town in general might
- Nancy shares most/all of my locktown reads

This is follow the

cop

stump now imo. the masons hiding is an easy win condition. actively pushing anyone feels like a bad idea at this point. going into strong townreads being far more useful IF Nancy is pushing them but not if Nancy isn't pushing them

---
unrelated, but ignoring the vanilla things is imo, 100% pro town for reasons i'll explain if you want me to but not unless asked specifically

[SaraharaS]

oh looks like there's scum in the VT claims for sure then

[SaraharaS]

but whom

[SaraharaS]

this setup means that trying to scumhunt is pro scum right now. change my mind

UNVOTE: W&P

sorry haven't read in a while
not been feeling mafia AT ALL this past week and it's probably time for a break after this one
this game especially though is pretty demotivating
Nancy people who know how to read me and are good at reading me have repeatedly told you i'm town

could you maybe trust their judgement rather than pushing for me simply because i'm a VT?

there's nothing more demotivating than being pushed because of mech i have no control over

the only other reason i saw you give was you didn't like my reaction to the whole Morning ordeal
she herself has informed you that my reaction was perfectly normal
and that i know her tells and it's not weird at all that i know for a fact that she's town here

i only skimmed the stuff since i last posted so i may have missed questions or whatever
i'll TRY and get myself back into this later
maybe

oh and i still think War and Peace is scum who we should actually be killing today

you getting pushed by mech arguments that 'Olaf must be scum because one of the people in that group must be scum' which i'm arguing against based on you dropping some of your towntells you say?
not

exactly

the same scenario this time, but i'm still getting flashbacks

[SaraharaS]

...flashbacks to a time where Olaf was good and people were saying they were bad because they were in a hood that people were sure couldn't be all town that we were both in that was all town and i was saying noooo Olaf is good... look, they're even doing

their trust tell

one of their town tells

[SaraharaS]

-there's been a lot of claims
-i'm happy enough with my amount of townreads to start voting in the poe
-my poe probably isn't mason-free
-pushing masons is bad
-i think you should be directing votes here

[SaraharaS]

that's a picture of 'Sabre Alter' slipping because uh... i was hitting on Hopkirk and that's how i hit on people. yeah.

[SaraharaS]

noooo he's too cute to get banned

[SaraharaS]

this is why you use different browsers duffer

like you've never done it

[SaraharaS]

...flashbacks to a time where Olaf was good and people were saying they were bad because they were in a hood that people were sure couldn't be all town that we were both in that was all town and i was saying noooo Olaf is good... look, they're even doing

their trust tell

one of their town tells

lol that's a classic comparison
maybe not as surefire to say all of the group is town this time

oh yeah, there's probably some weird overpowered third party in this game too isn't there... sigh

this is why you use different browsers duffer

like you've never done it

point to one time this game i alt slipped
just one

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80729&activity_overview=1

Dunno though, my motivation is kinda weak right now. I just want a flip, and blood. Blood for the blood god, please.

blood for the blood god!
flips for the flip god!
scum for the scum god (wait no)
thor for the four gods!
good of the good god!
gods for the god god!

i think the only people i read more town than olaf are people olaf also hard TRs

[SaraharaS]

Oh look, Sarahkirk, I took a pagetop to hide your blunder.

haha, what's a Sarahkirk?

THIS GAME i said

i feel like the DST hair counts

I live in fear of Sarahkirk outting ME.

i'd never do that to... to

you

. i wouldn't out you and i wouldn't even kick you when you were down
(emotional representation redacted)

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Saraharas

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Sarah

Get

him

!!!!!

woooooooow

[SaraharaS]

wow
woooooooow
wowwowwow
wow
woooooooooooooooooooow
wow

VOTE: Fey

[SaraharaS]

...don't make this 1v1 harder than it has to be...

just call it what it is- toxic. i'm not the one who made it toxic. you're seriously voting me while intentionally using 'him' in the vote post. wow. that's the most toxic 1v1 i've ever seen and i've seen... uh... idk a couple of toxic 1v1s since this is only like me second game

[SaraharaS]

'helping scum hide' when you're the only other one posting you say DKKoba?. very interesting.

UNVOTE: Fey

[SaraharaS]

...don't make this 1v1 harder than it has to be...

just call it what it is- toxic. i'm not the one who made it toxic. you're seriously voting me while intentionally using 'him' in the vote post. wow. that's the most toxic 1v1 i've ever seen and i've seen... uh... idk a couple of toxic 1v1s since this is only like me second game

Honestly I've been in so many toxic 1v1s, you picked the wrong person to get into this with, I'm so sorry for using him but girl... you're scum... kicking poor little innocent Olaf while he's down is HONESTLY so twisted and awful. I can't believe you'd stoop so low and I'm doing everything I can to get his honor back.

if you keep being so https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Toxic_(move) then i'm going to have to do what my grandmother did back in Scotland...

VOTE: DKKoba

[SaraharaS]

haha what? that's a weird thing to say... like my grandmother was a mason sure... but that doesn't mean anything

[SaraharaS]

youre not funny

see now this is why Flopz doesn't like playing with you. olaf is

hilarious

please don't bring up your grandmother again Sarah
not after what happened with your grandfather

my

what

mother

imaging playing mafia and not wanting to vibe

[SaraharaS]

this is literally just extremely annoying to the outside parties who signed up to play a game.

let's take a poll among everyone in the game. i'm going to treat not answering this as a scumclaim

a-the good natured fun bring tears of joy to my eye. god bless you olaf/fey/sarah
b-i thought they were serious tbh
c-i just skip over that stuff but i don't mind
d-sarah/fey/olaf are all terrible people irl

i'm between a and d atm so open to arguments

I think everyone posting here currently is already scumreading War and Peace, soooooo... ya know.

Just waiting for Nancy to make the call.

yeah

[SaraharaS]

hey, i'm dicking around because i've made it clear that not dicking around is kinda sus

I'm the cuter locktown here and I say... we party.

i'm... i'm right here

[SaraharaS]

Fey is probably the mechanical reason scum had a dayvig

And I'm holding hands with Sarah and Olaf right now, sharing my towny energy with them. We're a closed circuit of town POWER.

town POWER

[SaraharaS]

i mean we are pretty terrible people irl but we're great in mafia games
we've never once performed GBH to anyone in a mafia game

not intentionally at least

hey, i'm dicking around because i've made it clear that not dicking around is kinda sus

I'm the cuter locktown here and I say... we party.

i'm... i'm right here

Look, you're just a LITTLE less cute than me, okay?

i... i know, but

it still hurts to hear

i mean we are pretty terrible people irl but we're great in mafia games
we've never once performed GBH to anyone in a mafia game

I can change that.

who are you threatening?

VOTE COUNT 2 . FINAL

• ItalianoVD
  ---------- 9 ( SaraharaS(36), Morty and Rick(139), Dunnstral(73), Titus(148), Pink Ball(222), Nancy Drew 39(584), Toogeloo(43), Morning Tweet(163), Starcrossed(75), Red Eye Knights(44), Sherlock and Watson(236) )
  Flipping
  
  
  5uffering
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(94), Gamma Emerald(172), 5uffering(174), War and Peace(39) )
  F- 5
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 2 ( olaf(197) )
  F- 8
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 1 ( ItalianoVD(68) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 1 ( Fey(42) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Morning Tweet
  ------- 1 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 0 ( No One )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Now, I wonder what was going on here that makes me look towny... I'll give you a guess.

Just one drop in the bucket.

ooh, is it that you'd claimed an objectively town aligned role at the time of that votecount?

[SaraharaS]

Lots and lots of spam. Me likey.

oh shit maybe DKKoba was right

if scum had a Rolestopper surely they'd put it on sherlock and watson
gunsmith probscum over the Rolestopper

wasn't the vig shot outside of Nancy's acceptable vig shot pool?

VOTE: War and Peace

[SaraharaS]

saraharas - text walls that ain't nobody got time for (sry ircher), poe, and I have no idea who they are so I can't even check if I get un-lazy

haha, yes. i am mysterious and nobody knows anything about my mysterious past. i am neeeeew to this site and haven't got any alts haha

[SaraharaS]

Uh, what?

you didn't claim in the vanilla massclaim 1+1=notvanilla

Wtf... is this just overt mason hunting

[SaraharaS]

if i do this can you tell us if you're ok with the W&P wagon Nancy. i'm feeling demotivated with the way things are stretching out/waiting for your ok with things in exactly the way hop was saying he thought he'd feel as non mason town in this setup. things are really dragging right now and waiting another four days is another four bites into the dwindling reserves of my enthusiasm as i await the approaching winter crop failures. stretching everything out because we're waiting for approval gives me real 'Tsar eating well during a famine' vibes

Dunn don't push the mason theater too hard or titus might think we're not actually masons

-S

Not only am I masons with Fey, but they are perhaps the most enjoyable mason partner I've ever had and I am thoroughly enjoying their presence in this game!

-S

less likely scum with Dunn and Fey. don't feel it's likely for scum to make this kind of jokes about their actual partners this early + fits with my reads

Pretty sure Pyro is a Krazy alt

I'm Hectic btw

-S

(more examples below of this)
i don't think scum!S&W makes so many comments about who Pyro really is if they're scum together. there's a lot of them

wait, in the hating everything are you saying you also hated mandalorian season 1, or did you not see that because disney+ doesn't have enough content to justify its price

p.s. there's a chance that pyro is actually more town than the literal masons this game lmao

note the pyro buddying for later

Pyro are you roleplaying as Ircher

commenting on pyro being another player again (i missed a couple later in the thread, there's also the (censored name) hydra one)

Jesus... I'm not reading 25 pages that came in less than 18 hours. Someone catch me up to speed.

We're masons with Pyro, Fey, and Noraaing Tweet

-S

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like viewtopic.php?p=12608522#p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

- kind of weird that Clidd is at the top here but S&W doesn't ever joke about 'being masons with Clidd' despite doing it about a whole lot of other people (Pyro, Fey, Dunn, Morning...) all of whom i TR. there's some pushing of Clidd later that i didn't quote that feels a little like he didn't fully expect the push to go through. maybe + associatives with clidd?
- more of the stuff on olaf's alt stuff & on 5uffering/Fey all of which feel less likely to be scum aligned with S&W

I don't like how uneasy olaf's posting on this page is making me...

Fey stop being scummy plz

-S

despite his buddying feeling towards Pyro earlier seems to start to SR olaf when they sub in and the progression on the slot doesn't feel like the way scum would switch on a partner. feels more like scum buddying a town then not realizing who the new account is and changing their read. the progression feels like scum on town

tbh if all 8(!) of my preflips are correct then Olaf looks bad

VOTE: olaf
too much conflict between noraa-slot and nancy

nancy where are you on this?

two more on the olaf thing above

fuck you and I mean this outside of my game persona

dude

less likely to be scum with 5uffering especially in light on the later replace out

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

- the stuff around Gamma feels kinda eh after the stuff on Italiano
- the 'mean' comment about 5uffering is less likely to be aligned
- more of the olaf shading
- still doesn't super feel like he's pushing clidd seriously
- the shift on starcrossed feels opportunistically lowered which feels unlikely to do with a partner

I actually feel good about this, I think Italiano has done a very good job faking a townie tone, but I think this is our hit

we can let 5uffering get replaced I guess, can't believe that's the same slot that had Marci...

actually thinking about the double replace I don't know, but I think off setup spec Italiano looks very likely to be scum

again less likely aligned with 5uffering

Counterpicks for vanilla Cop:

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)
Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)
Olaf

Outside of mastina, these are the vanilla cop picks that have strong reasoning

Right now I'm saying GS on REK, since that seems more powerful and REK is a slot that is better resolved with a powerful mech check.

Starcrossed and Olaf are viable counter-picks to mastina, but I think a vanilla cop check on mastina is stronger. I would certainly entertain arguments that Starcrossed or Olaf are good vanilla cop checks, but I think Olaf is better left to being sorted by dayplay as a viable nightkill target if town, and Starcrossed just doesn't seem as good to me as mastina, basically. At that point there are subjective factors in play. I am welcome to arguments that Starcrossed is a better vanilla cop check than mastina, but I think almost everything outside of that is suboptimal for a variety of dayplay reasons.

given TRs on Starcrossed/Olaf i can see REK being a mafia goon (specifically goon) based on this post

so based on this

more likely
Clidd
REK
Gamma/now KA marginally

less likely
5uffering (strongest) - DkKoba now
Olaf (2nd strongest)
Starcrossed
Fey
Dunn

all of which i already had. no vibes either way on their interactions with W&P so this didn't really sway my views very much

[SaraharaS]

no u

[SaraharaS]

splitting most of my responses here into another post because Fey did something super messed up with the formatting to make her post impossible to quote

I missed this go-getter attitude, champ! <3

What do you think about the VC I just posted?

Assuming scum is on the wagon to bus, which I think the odds of happening for a slot like W+P is reasonable, I only think of those, Sarah or Starcrossed are likely scum from my own reads. KidAmn is a fringe case.

Opinions?

KidAmn is town for Gamma being out of his scumrange I'm pretty sure.

I agree 1 scum has gotta be on the wagon and that's Sarah or Starcrossed, yeah.

But SARAH, you wouldn't let Totus pick you like that surely

I'd have been incredibly upset if she'd picked me and i think Titus would have known that pregame. i like to think that Alisae had me as one of the first two excluded as scum-picks just in case they thought Tetus would be horrible enough to do that (which is really a lot of shade to throw at Titos Alisae)

Sarah's the most likely bus-vote, which is a shame.

Sarah also hasn't done too much this game, either? Bussed, and then did catch-up walls like W+P did which, as I said before, or at least THOUGHT before, it's easier to do catchup walls than to be in the moment.

The only difference is Sarah had the WIM to actually catch up in full.

Spoiler:

i got through TWENTY whole pages, super proud of myself , i'll try and do some more later then finish on friday or saturday

I think Fey and Dunnstral and Pyro and Batsunami and War and Peace (depending on the question below) have good vibes
Gamma Emerald and Suffering don't have good vibes yet but a lot of people haven't really vibed one way or the other yet. sad times

I also feel like War and Peace could just be town. stick them in the townpile for today.

As much as I currently SR ircher, I agree with this.

is this common knowledge because picking them would be a dick move if it is and that would make him probably good i think

I rolled scum with Ircher once and he demanded we bus him D1. Ircher acts scummy as town, probably not a great D1 elim. Although that was almost 3 years ago, I remember he hates playing scum.

Ircher gets run up as town because he's antagonistic and snarky, and has controversial opinions. Here, in the brief posts he made he was being diplomatic and political. The toneshift is huge, like a gaping abyss waiting to plunge the world into darkness.

uh... so like... why didn't this Ircher guy get killed? last i checked, the world getting plunged into dismal days of deep despairingly desolate darkness debatably demoralizes decent dudes.

Fey and Batsunami are masons but just don't know it yet. Flames.

are you just randomly ending your posts with fire related words because if so... I LOVE IT

i haven't read the fey interactions with Noraa yet but as a general rule I think reading into emotion is valid and i do it a lot. purposefully riling people up is effective but i think it's really anti-fun and i prefer enjoying the game > winning it. Not saying that's what Fey was trying to do or anything but yeh

Mm it does come of come across that way, she does mention that engaging with Noraa while she is agitated will likely give a more unfiltered view of her mind. I would say that being more confrontative with Noraa to try and get this reaction out of her is towny. I think scumreading Noraa for a refusal to answer her question is weak -- although i suspect this was also done for a reaction. Worry about players buddying up to Nancy is valid

Italiano's entrance is stupid awkward but I lean towards agreeing more towards LHF especially considering i think he's a less likely draft

i'm getting the impression Noraa is finding Dunn scummy for something that isn't typically a scumtell for Dunn but she feels extremely strong in her gut that he's scum regardless. Reading further, her initial ping was definitely jumping the gun (the deja vu shitpost). Ill have to talk to her more about it but it does feel like normal Dunn play to me. This is actually more active posting from Dunn than im used to, reminds me of Vampire dance game where he was fairly present

this is gonna be really fun counterbalancing Noraa scumreading every single player by townreading every single player

PEDIT: HOLY FUCK

~Bat

beyond obvious town. Who would go on a long emotionally manipulative speech about how emotional manipulation feels bad lol

I originally thought fey was hella town, but then when i read her x nora freakout i feel like she was reacting too much for it.. and it felt off

It was hella stupid in more than one way but I'm not sure if my biased opinion is really helpful when it comes to sorting someone like that.

For the record, I don't think Fey was pushing you to evoke an emotional reaction to get you to spew. I think she was suspicious of you ignoring her questioning, and seemed annoyed you were ignoring her, so kept prodding.

I think you both got annoyed each other but there should be no hard feelings at the end of the day. Plus, you're both town! So that's always a bonus.

Woke up to gamestart and 19 pages, splendid.

Whaddduuuuup my glip-glops!

-Morty

good take imo

What's the problem Funnstral

-Morty

lol funnstral

i changed our pfp without telling pooky; is this better or worse?

hi nancy, townlock us pls

~mitsuha

ooh emotionally manipulate me a bit and i'm townlock you

Spoiler:

oh... uh i am doing other stuff as well but i'm not getting up to do them so i think that's fine...

Nancy, do you think you should be townread so far? I have liked your high engagement and activity, but I'm paranoid from your deepwolfing in coalition mafia.

I can't figure out if this is serious

-Morty

it clearly isn't, how did you read it that way?

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

ugh, you think you've got it bad? I'd love to only have 35 pages to catch up on...

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can

POLYNDROME

glad to see i have a fan

nope you seem the same to me

even the 24 hours to seem town thing was a lot like the last time we played together

Hum, no.

I should be scummy in your perspective for how I got into the game.

Your vote remains slow, I need a towntell. If you describe your current reads, it will help me check if my tr is right or not.

i like this

I think gamma is either town or trying to appear town by taking a cue from our last interaction together

I didn't look into what is normal behavior for saudade, but just by vote alone I lean mafia

I want to shelve toogeloo for day 1

and I think titus messed up and confirmed batsunami town

i like this too

Spoiler:

How is that thread up to 80 pages already??? Slow down please; I'm still on page 10.
~War

the feels

Well this is horribly awkward.

Battle Mage is town, let's uh. Recalibrate, everyone...?

bad post but good slot, eh

ANYWAY
I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT TO CATCH UP SOME NOW, SO NO MORE FUCKING QUICKHAMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

bad post

Don’t worry Noraa, it’s awkward but whatever, you did have a compelling case.

VOTE: Saudade

bad vote

I'm pretty burnt out atm. That was a pretty crappy wagon sorry guys. Morning will be steering the wheel for a couple days while I recover. Anyways I probably won't be posting but I'll be reading.

I'm tired.

It's okay Noraabear!

A wrong wagon on D1 was very likely.
Sorry your tell got disproven (or simply mal-applied?).

Go relax tho, reset yourself, and return fresh and ready to conquer the evils which plague this thread!

- Darth Roast

ew too friendly. feels ew. bad vibes
you just targetting emotionally vulnerable people with your pockets? WOW

Sorry everyone, I don’t mean to be so salty. I know you did your best, I just really hate miselims. :/

this is why we wait for me to arrive. if i'd been posting then i'd have helped us get an entirely different miselim

Mastina, I don't really put a lot of stock into my reads but I have {5uffering, Gamma} as my top two scumreads at the moment.

I have an idea about who 5uffering is, and the way in which he's playing here doesn't square with how I've experienced town!him playing. His stances just feel weak, and look like a mimic of how he plays as town.

Gamma's pop-in at the BM wagon (something along the lines of "why were people saying he was hammered") without posting anything else feels very scummy. As I recall, he has a slight tendency to address posts in catchup walls as opposed to direct engagement. Please do have a look at these two ISOs.

Pyro is near townlock

for the way he's playing [given he is who I think he is].

Batsunami is townlock

simply for Noraa's extreme conviction - and the additional factor that as scum knowing BM was town, I doubt she would've stuck to the whole "BM is being good and towny and therefore is scum" argument through the day.

Pyro/5uffering: do you mind if I tell Mastina in our PT who I think you are?

-Morty

i completely agree with the townlocks and +town from that
i'm not a massive fan of the question to Pyro about saying who his alt is because the friendly request vibes feel weirdly pockety but i can see that from either alignment but still feels a little weird but probably town i guess

A deal is a deal

this is town but i don't like the attitude whatsoever

FUCK YOU

ugh, i hate it when mods spew town on slots

Spoiler:

bats and charlie look like town rn
also like toogeloo's vt claim
i don't know what that means clidd but i'd like one prescription of whatever you recommend

how did you catch up that fast what

You're so defensive and insecure over my vote at page 20 and I hope its because you're scum and not a character trait of yours

My annoyance and frustration is/was real and has nothing to do with my alignment. I’ve played with players who believe they are God’s gift to this game. I’ve been mislynched by them and I’ve been partners with them and they think they are better than they actually are. These people generally have poor scumhunting percentages, but focus on the few times they caught scum early and run big on that. The actual good scumhunters don’t boast how amazing and “brilliant” they are.

I surmised what type of player you were from our interaction and so I immediately placed you in that group. In my experience your jump onto me play is a scum/wolf play. You’re interaction with the playerlist is also scum/wolf play, but you’re Day 2 postings makes me question whether your trolling backfired on you and you’re trying to save face or you are actually trying to get more involved because that’s just your early m.o.

Okay Italiano is probably town
This post is pretty solid.

one of these flips scum minimum (Gamme/Italiano)

I think you’re wrong on Dunn. He is very different here than in Royalty. He was pinging my scumdar off the freaking charts from pretty much the first post.

you're the boss! :3

Damn straight!

And for now and for the remainder of this game no elim is fucking going through without my express blessing

and if I have as strong a tr as I had on BM, I refuse to doubt myself or get talked out of it and nothing short of a hard guilty is going to affect that.

i for one welcome our new

d

i

c

t

a

t

o

r

cliddd is town
But gamma and italiano are sus

good reads

I am town stump hurrr durrr u cant argue with me im a giant baby

this is horribly toxic and also a townclaim imo

i skimmed most of everything

oh that explains the quick catchup, congrats on skimming 100+ pages in like 30 minutes. can you teach me your ways?

Spoiler:

ircher

you're doing amazing sweetie

Spoiler:

rough reads (remembering i read over half of this in the last few hours, and bearing in mind that i woke up at about seven am this morning because i needed to spend about an hour vomiting. sure, i didn't need to say that, but i think it helps contextualize my post vomit, or whatever the phrase related to that is for when you dump a loooot of posts in the thread in a row)

Locktown
-Batsunami
-Fey
-Pink Ball
-Olaf (lower locktown tier than the other three if you care about nuance)

Townreads
-Starcrossed
-Morty and Rick
-Toogeloo
-Dunnstral (idk why? i think this is vibing though)

others in no order
(Clidd, Sherlock & Watson, Italiano, 5uffering, Gaming Emerelf, War and Peace, Red Eyes Knights)

Spoiler:

good ol' POE

VOTE: War and Peace

(Also include 3758 in this too, I tried to quote it but nested spoilers are awful.)

So, Sarah... what exactly is this progression on War and Peace and why does it make no sense how you liked all of their posts but then end up with them in an unsorted PoE and then you're happy to throw down the vote on them despite... never objecting to anything that they posted?

(If I missed something, please update me, because from looking over your ISO you never have any progression on W+P and just +1 what they say before ultimately abandoning what you liked and voting them when other people were.)

I'd have less issue with Sarah's posting around W+P if they had expressed some form of doubt, at any point, that I could find; even just saying that they thought, objectively, W+P was less townier than the people they townlocked. Even then though... they expressed no doubt about any of their posting, so that would be a big stretch.

But not, just nothing but an opportunistic vote for scum to make while bussing their buddy who's going down.

fixed the post, originally had broken code. -Ali

[SaraharaS]

getting out of the poe means i

town

read them. being in it means scummy or neutral. W&P was neutral. which of those 'i like this post a bit' which happened a total of 2-3 times in over 100 pages makes you think i was TRing them?

What i've done this game is correctly find multiple town (hopefully) and have 2 memebers of my 6-7p end of day POE flip scum (5-6 discounting mason who was confirmed town later). if my other reads are right then

what i've done this game

is essentially solve it d1. if my other reads are wrong then what i've done this game is get pocketed by olaf and die or something i guess, at which point hoppy probably wouldn't let me ever play mafia again which is a scary thought because then i basically die i guess

i didn't express 'doubt' because i had a townblock of over half the game (more if taking deep-masons into account), made it VERY clear that casing people as of yesterday was a stupid idea in this setup of 'town has no vote but stump has a dayvig'
i then spent the whole of yesterday playing the completely unfun game of 'scum or mason' with W&P. i don't think i could have made it clearer that's why i kept asking Nancy if she was ok with W&P, kept saying i was worried about voting a mason (then eventually unvoting W&P despite Nancy pushing back), then eventually revoting because i trusted you and olaf agreeing with me was > waiting for Nancy

[SaraharaS]

The Fey Reads List

Townreads:
Pyro
Pink Ball
DkKoba
Dunnstral
Morning Tweet

Meh:
KidAmn
Starcrossed

Scumlean:
Clidd

Scumreads:
Toogeloo
SaraharaS

This is ordered, top to bottom.

so we share the same hard-townblock, my poe has had 2 scum so far, your bottom reads excluding me include the rest of my poe (+the backup poe) and i've apparently done 'nothing'. you're saying 'it's more likely sarah bussed her entire scumteam the whole game than being town with good reads lol' because why exactly?

are you actually serious right now?

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah}, replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

?

Anti-associatives with Clidd unless you think Krazy would hardbus here, which I doubt.

Both Toog and Sarah were pressuring me to end the day, so I’m thinking possibly last two scum?

Nancy, try playing vanilla in one of these vs games before you try and attack me for not wanting every fucking day to last two-weeks of waiting for the stump. it's incredibly demotivating beyond the point of being remotely enjoyable. nothing about this setup is even close to fun and i'm not joining another one even by request like i did the last two

[SaraharaS]

i'd go for KidAm here but what's the point of even playing in this setup, especially when trying to solve and getting it right is apparently scum indicative. hey nancy, let me know if you want to go kidam

[SaraharaS]

don't tell me what i'm frustrated at

[SaraharaS]

my solve right now is Clidd + KidAm

a lot of people seem to be saying Clidd is town from the interactions with Sherlock. don't buy that logic holds up given Sherlock knew that wasn't going through when Nancy was against it

[SaraharaS]

Sherlock/Clidd interaction stuff

Pink Flooooof <3

Alright whatever

VOTE: clidd I guess? Idk what do you want nancy?

-S

i feel like Sherlock is aware that voting doesn't mean much here since Nancy should always be the one picking who we ultimately exile. votes and minor shade isn't all that significant and there's no real solid push from Sherlock actually against Clidd. i just get vibes of distancing more than anything when they know that it makes them look less aligned without really threatening the over one.

Italiano and Pink Ball *could* be town off VCA in which case clidd looks very likely to be red

that might be hasty though but it sorta vibes with my gut

meh, no follow up to this

Can't decide if clidd is goon already being bussed or the town that scum want to push to disrupt the town narrative

shading without real pressure is a theme

I was just thinking it'd be interesting to see a noraa stump game but tbh noraa feels like the stump of *this* game, nancy are you sure you didn't role swap?

I still feel good about my town akarin vibe earlier but it would be nice to just see more from her. And Ari there's something you can do that would help me read u but you only are townie if you do it unprompted

Personally I really don't townread the way suffering started being like... Just mean? Too gamma, and I don't want to set a precedent that being mean or upping ate will get townreads. Like the reads of saudade flipped because he went over a line and if reads change *for those reasons* we're gonna see scum like fake anger a lot. That sort of stuff is terrible for thread readability

Nancy do you still townread clidd?I

-S

asking nancy about it without trying to convince nancy otherwise gives me vibes of not actually trying to push clidd out, just to give the appearance of it

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

somehow i don't really get the vibes of this being a hard push on clidd from sherlock or even anti-aligned indicative. the line of clidd is a throwaway after pushing people as alternatives that Nancy prefers to clidd

Leash Gamma to Sahara, since Fey is out of shots leash Italiano to Fey to confirm the existence of that role. W&P check one of PB or Starcrossed, sure, probably better to not leash GS to specific target

Flip 5uffering (I think that's the implication of that post? if not I'd leash him to clidd), vig... clidd? don't like this actually for some reason even though it's the 'safe' play, and this maybe changes if we're leashing 5uffering to clidd if we don't do 5uffering today

not sure if there was something else you were doing with Fey that would make a vanillaize there bad but from my POV that's correct night actions

-S

I kinda think italiano's town now, so in my opinion, italiano vanillaize fey, vig clidd makes more sense

if you think clidd is townier than italiano, then vig italiano, italiano leashed to clidd

idk I can't make some of those decisions for you

-S

doesn't want vig on clidd is notable, but none of this is really associative-indicative based on assumed scum night powers

This is getting to the point where my reads are actively degrading. I don't like the push on REK. I don't like PB (alignment wise, based on push/gamestate). I don't like clidd calling PB town *now*. I don't like the inertia on Italiano. I don't know what that adds up to in the gamestate and I don't think today will be in a good place if this dayphase goes long enough that it will create the risk of me getting to a point where I let myself push PB, because I just don't see that being good for anyone involved, even IF PB is scum. I think positionally REK is probably town simply for the way people are positioning themselves on that slot in this gamestate. But I say all that and I don't even know REK is town! Maybe PB is like softbussing to set up a chain on me later or something, I don't know! I don't even care! Nancy I am not even joking when I say that if you let this game go past page 190 I am just going to overrule you and announce the day's flip and I won't even care if you had some sort of galaxybrain mason gambit in mind or something. 180 was my 'gasket point' and I know you don't want to be rushed but look at the pagecount of this game and realize SHIT NEEDS TO DIE. I know you want to go slow and you want me to be helping you more but THIS IS ME HELPING YOU. MAKE A DECISION, RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHATEVER and let this game ADVANCE before literally the entire game is just ~done~. What happens when days go this long (pagecountwise) is that my accurate reads from earlier in the game get supplanted by the reads I have on people whose reads are annoying me, whose positioning annoys me, or whose soft pushes on me annoys me. My reads are stronger earlier because I don't have as much emotional load dealing with my evaluation of the slots. And the more frustrated I get with this game in particular, my reads get worse as the page count just continues to advance. And I say that and I know that Pink Ball, whatever his alignment, just wants to play the game he replaced into *which is fine* bearing in mind that I am just *completely sick* of 200 page day 1s. No day 1 is worth 200 pages. It's just not. All that will happen is that, since it's day 1, and since we'll just *usually* end up wrong here *somehow*, *somewhere*, we're just going to get *even more upset* when we realize we spent 200 pages talking it out only to fuck it up. Mafia isn't supposed to be played perfectly, it's supposed to be played in a way that you get the odds to *slightly* tip in your favor through *slightly* above random reads. If you try to play the perfect game the game will just slip through your fingers. That's been my takeaway from the last six months.

TBH a very big part of me wants to snap to clidd just for 4585 and say Noraa was right all along. In fact why don't we just do that?

VOTE: clidd

We're just spinning in fucking circles here Nancy, CALL THE SHOT OR I WILL

the actual push on Clidd comes here- when contextually like.. he wasn't in danger of getting flipped? these are Nanacy's posts right before this

i definitely wouldn't lim Morty today Nancy
he's mostly just there as a prediction even though I townread him
the gist for clidd is i think he's saying things he doesn't believe in and playing up the confident/commanding act
War and Peace has samantha playing to a tee to her scummeta while Ircher had some really bad moments early on
like i said i'm not gonna scumcase any of them right now
either in a few days if we're somehow still on this day
or day 2 if we flip someone

Well W & P was in my initial solve and Clidd was in Noraa’s.

My initial solve was 5uffering, Italiano, Gamma, W & P. So I’m open to W & P if you can show me they’re scum, less sure on Clidd but I’m open to it if one or more of that PoE is wrong. As for REK, if this was a regular game I might see things differently but I just can’t see Titus drafting Akarin after Pokeman Battles, especially when she’s made multiple posts about not being interested in drafting players who hate playing scum because it’s “demotivating” and Akarin detests playing scum. So my reads are part based on play, part VCA, part meta and part the likelihood of actually being drafted. So Fey is my top tr primarily based off of meta and unlikeliness of being picked. I was paranoiaing on you for likelihood of being picked but I also have gotten some town pings from you.

Why is compulsive vanilaizer a town role? Somebody please explain that.

It's very clear here that Clidd isn't even in like Nancy's top 4 targets (was like 5th/6th) and Nancy seemed fairly solid at this point since we were vibing on most of these reads around this point. i don't see the push actually being non partner indicative and think the overall trajectory leans more scum

[SaraharaS]

i'm not sure if i'm missing something when everyone seemed to townbin clidd on the associatives. i said yesterday when i went through the iso of sherlock like Nancy asked that it didn't seem remotely anti-associative to me and pointed out a couple of points where it seemed associative and it feels super weird that everyone seems to just be glossing over him here?

are the things people think make them less aligned on Clidd's end, because i don't see those either

[SaraharaS]

Nancy wasn't against it.

But I agree that throwing Clidd to the townbin because of Sherlock is a little extreme

Nancy was against it in practice because there were multiple other wagons she was happy pushing. Sherlock doesn't actually push Clidd until he's clear that Nancy isn't going to push Clidd. It's more 'anti-associative' shade he throws at Clidd when he knows by setup that that doesn't really do anything

albeit a lot of this is coming from a place of me TRing all of the other VT claims except Clidd/POE. wasn't sure on clidd before now but never understood the townreads, had him as unsorted/neutral/lean bad on poe probably

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Clidd

my solve is basically this + KidAm. i'm more confident on clidd

[SaraharaS]

clidd's vote on me after saying me + kidam makes sense with scum!clidd
dunn could be scum instead of Kidam since his vote on me sucks

star is mech town
fey is mech town
pro is soulread town
pinkball is town because of his predecessor doing a trust tell level rep out
Bat is town via i'm not terrible at reading people lol

that's enough to vote out everyone who i'm not locktown on. don't need more vibes here to solve by poe. nice

[SaraharaS]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

[SaraharaS]

I hard TR over half of the game without counting myself so this isn't game losing, it's just dumb. if you want to vote me then sheep me afterwards

[SaraharaS]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

i'm voting clidd right now. ideally we'd vote them off today. why the caps... you don't need to shout... it's scary

clidd is still framing me being v.sus of him as weird when there's v.likely scum in the vanillas and he accepts that and i've made it clear that i TR the vanillas apart from clidd...

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

[SaraharaS]

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

[SaraharaS]

True but even if it is Sarah, who is her buddy then?

I don't know, I don't really have a second scumread so I should look into things more today

I agree that there is at least 1 scum in the vt claims here

Starcrossed can't be scum
Tweetie can't be bus driver on account of her role being confirmable, and is also probably town
Fey is likely town by role and play

So that is who we shouldn't elim for sure IMO

And then:

Pyro - I thought he's been townie and I'm sure fey is better at reading him than I am and she says town for sure so I'll respect that
Kidamn - I don't get how they'd fit in what seems like the perfect claim as scum on day 2 - am I missing something

Pink Ball - He's felt towny and people brought up gamma and the replace out
Clidd - Was getting pushed by scum and is being pushed by sarahara now

Sarahara - People have pointed out that her reads changed in a weird way (which could have been a mason tell so I initially ignored), and the poe is shrinking so this feels likely scum unless I'm missing something big

when did my reads weirdly change? during my 120 page catchup is the only time i can remember people mentioning my reads changing (pyro talking about me on W&P)... and does 'has read another 20-30 pages of game' not seem like a perfectly ridiculously good reason for my reads to shift around a little?

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

see my consistent-across-multiple-games thoughts on how we should be acting. i spent the entirety of yesterday worrying if W&P was a mason and wondering if pushing them was going to get a mason killed because i wasn't sure if your reluctance to vote them when me and olaf and fey were vibing on the slot being scum and you were giving vibes that made me feel like they could be a mason so i didn't want to make it too obvious if you were trying to hint to back off

did i mention that i'm not the biggest fan of this style of setup...

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Coming from ANYONE but you. that post would make me wonder.

Everyone is pushing me. Hmm.

[SaraharaS]

My main reason to think Sarah might be scum is just for the weird War and Peace progression. I know she insists it's not weird to only like a couple of things and have them in the PoE, but I still find it strange that she has good vibes on them and points out 1 or 2 posts of theirs she likes but then they're in the PoE with no sign of the progression for why they got there

pedit: because I seriously thought they were scum if not a Mason or vig

i could have sworn you know how my poe works. it takes a fair bit to get beyond neutral & i don't usually separate null&scum inside the poe until i'm more confident (later in the game)... if you look through my comments i'm pretty sure i didn't think anything they did was super townie as opposed to just 'kinda nice' and a couple of my top TRs (including you... the betrayal wow) was SRing them so idk why you don't get their position in the poe

[SaraharaS]

i'll quote some posts from Nancy that were giving me paranoia, but it was largely feeling like Nancy didn't want us pushing W&P + the mech wasn't dissuading me of the notion

...that's why i kept posting around that time that i wished nancy would say whether she approved of the vote (including when unvoting W&P one time) and that i felt like scumhunting was mason hunting... because i had vibes that my top SR was a mason

So, Sarah, why would you think that about W+P? Do you think that Nancy told her mason to claim an investigative role that would get them killed...?

a claimed investigative is likely to get protected so dying isn't super likely
a claimed investigative is likely to get roleblocked (causing scum to waste a RB on blocking nothing)
helps hide other masons, scum kill less likely to hit masons
avoids claiming the mason which can help it live longer
i can definitely see a benefit to it mechwise

[SaraharaS]

W&P wasn't obvscum so much as in a very small (4-5-maybe 6 players containing 3 scum) that some of my strongest TRs that i love sheeping (hey there pyro) were hard SRing

here's my general feelings of discontent with the way the day was flowing @Fey

this setup means that trying to scumhunt is pro scum right now. change my mind

UNVOTE: W&P

sorry haven't read in a while
not been feeling mafia AT ALL this past week and it's probably time for a break after this one
this game especially though is pretty demotivating
Nancy people who know how to read me and are good at reading me have repeatedly told you i'm town

could you maybe trust their judgement rather than pushing for me simply because i'm a VT?

there's nothing more demotivating than being pushed because of mech i have no control over

the only other reason i saw you give was you didn't like my reaction to the whole Morning ordeal
she herself has informed you that my reaction was perfectly normal
and that i know her tells and it's not weird at all that i know for a fact that she's town here

i only skimmed the stuff since i last posted so i may have missed questions or whatever
i'll TRY and get myself back into this later
maybe

oh and i still think War and Peace is scum who we should actually be killing today

you getting pushed by mech arguments that 'Olaf must be scum because one of the people in that group must be scum' which i'm arguing against based on you dropping some of your towntells you say?
not

exactly

the same scenario this time, but i'm still getting flashbacks

since you asked for some more thoughts on VT spec... here's some in depth
looking briefly though some past larges here's some precedent of same/similar vanilla:

7/17 VT: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84560
7/18 VT: viewtopic.php?f=160&t=85653
6/17 VT, with mod note that town PRs were designed to be actively negative utility: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=85191

mod spec - the last VS was considered a stomp for town, and the masonary/setup veeeeery townsided if i'm reading that right. Reasonable to assume the mod for this game would aim to factor feedback from the last one and the discussion on masons there into it (when was it designed infulences this though)

i think you're treating '3 masons or your choice of any PRs' part of the setup as being a lot less powerful than it is and assuming more PRs when 3 masons/equivalent already take up a massive chunk of the overall power of a town (+ as noted below, vig exists & nightskip both are presumably town)

conclusion on possibilities
- 7 VT is reasonable by precedent/setup/reads and not impossible or even unlikely i think... but i don't exactly design setups so maybe i'm wrong on design spec
- 1 scum in the 5 remaining is also possible and incredibly likely if the vanilla cop is a real claim
- third option is that both are true. there's multiple slots that didn't claim vanilla or not vanilla. if there's a scum goon within those slots then we can also be in a world where the town VTs claimed, but any scum who were considering claiming VT saw that you were already looking at the VTs and chose not to (this obviously also works with more than 1 scum goon and 1 claimed goon within it + probably other cases)
- fakeclaiming of VT is possible and adjusts everything here/raises other possibilities

i'm happy to assume
- Vig is town
- Scum had day shot so town have nightskip to balance out the killpower increase from a dayvig (effectively cancel out to scum making their kill during the day instead of night if both used? discounting impact of vig)
- masons and/or equivalent powers exist
- locktown reads are almost definitely town because words have definitions that give you their meaning and the definition of locktown is a townread that's so strong it's bordering on 100%, so presumably someone who's locktown is presumably close to 100% town

Also to note
- my/town in general's reads are mechanically objectively worse than Nancy's because Nancy isn't going to push a mason whereas i/town in general might
- Nancy shares most/all of my locktown reads

This is follow the

cop

stump now imo. the masons hiding is an easy win condition. actively pushing anyone feels like a bad idea at this point. going into strong townreads being far more useful IF Nancy is pushing them but not if Nancy isn't pushing them

---
unrelated, but ignoring the vanilla things is imo, 100% pro town for reasons i'll explain if you want me to but not unless asked specifically

here's my W&P stance

i've got enough strong townreads that i'm good with eating through the rest of the POE

good ol' POE

VOTE: War and Peace

[SaraharaS]

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

I didn’t sanction Toog and wasn’t exactly keen on BM. Only lim I enthusiastically endorsed was W & P, however I did push for Italiano.

what happened isn't what should happen. we shouldn't vote anyone the stump doesn't agree to until all masons are dead. i stand by this

BM was before i got here and i remember you were annoyed about it but idr the specifics

Italiano you were happy with so it fits. clidd wasn't being seriously considered and most people were looking at the same people you were here. clidd/Krazy throwing shade at each other wasn't going to result in a exile and krazy waited until the other wagons had solidifed + got some degree of buy in from you before he seriously 'pushed' clidd. look at the timings of his case vs wagons

W&P also fits

[SaraharaS]

True but even if it is Sarah, who is her buddy then?

I don't know, I don't really have a second scumread so I should look into things more today

I agree that there is at least 1 scum in the vt claims here

Starcrossed can't be scum
Tweetie can't be bus driver on account of her role being confirmable, and is also probably town
Fey is likely town by role and play

So that is who we shouldn't elim for sure IMO

And then:

Pyro - I thought he's been townie and I'm sure fey is better at reading him than I am and she says town for sure so I'll respect that
Kidamn - I don't get how they'd fit in what seems like the perfect claim as scum on day 2 - am I missing something

Pink Ball - He's felt towny and people brought up gamma and the replace out
Clidd - Was getting pushed by scum and is being pushed by sarahara now

Sarahara - People have pointed out that her reads changed in a weird way (which could have been a mason tell so I initially ignored), and the poe is shrinking so this feels likely scum unless I'm missing something big

when did my reads weirdly change? during my 120 page catchup is the only time i can remember people mentioning my reads changing (pyro talking about me on W&P)... and does 'has read another 20-30 pages of game' not seem like a perfectly ridiculously good reason for my reads to shift around a little?

Sarah was only on two wagons: Italiano and War and Peace.

see my consistent-across-multiple-games thoughts on how we should be acting. i spent the entirety of yesterday worrying if W&P was a mason and wondering if pushing them was going to get a mason killed because i wasn't sure if your reluctance to vote them when me and olaf and fey were vibing on the slot being scum and you were giving vibes that made me feel like they could be a mason so i didn't want to make it too obvious if you were trying to hint to back off

did i mention that i'm not the biggest fan of this style of setup...

Everyone is pushing Sarah. Hmm.

Coming from ANYONE but you. that post would make me wonder.

Everyone is pushing me. Hmm.

I don’t understand why anyone would seriously think W & P were masons after I pushed them to outright claim and their claim was gunsmith?

I can understand that on D1 but I think that should have been pretty obviously not by D2.

i thought he'd flip scum because the wagon drivers felt super pure and he felt meh null lean scum
i had some paranoia that i was pushing a mason and unintentionally ruining your strategy and exposing your masons which made the push feel a lot more eh then it should
i got over it when i revoted after the confused unvote

[SaraharaS]

ok easier to summarise than quote because the quotes don't technically mention WP

-you were starting to hard push voting off within the VT claims at that point rather than W&P - that's when i got concerned that you were looking there due to your mason being pushed

[SaraharaS]

My current PoE is you/KidAmn/Clidd. I have stronger reasons to be tr everyone else and as long as both scums are in that PoE, we win.

So fypov, do you agree with this? Minus you obviously.

as i said earlier, yes. this either gets both scum, or there's a deepwolf that gets POE'd out from flips/power roles... but there's enough votes for all of that. if i had a smaller poe then i'd be a lot more irritated with a push on me here

I hard TR over half of the game without counting myself so this isn't game losing, it's just dumb. if you want to vote me then sheep me afterwards

[SaraharaS]

6350 was of course saying sheep me on Kidam/Clidd. if you're agreeing with that then i don't mind what else you do really

[SaraharaS]

except Sherlock ^

[SaraharaS]

Also in two bus drives KidAmn has never been switched. I just find myself having a lot of trouble believing his posts are sincere.

Whether or not Sarah is scum or Krazy did a brilliant job of distancing Clidd I don’t know but bus drive switch with Sarah/Koba make it extremely obvious scum wants us to lim amongst the vt claims, which makes me think that even if Sarah is scum, he’s 100% NOT the bus driver.

VOTE: KidAmn

Asking permission to hammer

I want BOTH you and Tweetie on Starcrossed tonight. @Tweetie especially.

Sure, we’ll get his buddy tomorrow.

hoppy isn't in this game y'all...

[SaraharaS]

a lot of people are calling me hopkirk/he and that's mean. i'm trying my best and hop keeps laughing at me
'lol, getting voted off. what a loser' - hop to me earlier. sadface

[SaraharaS]

do clidd next pls

[SaraharaS]

Ugh, I know you think it's fine Nancy but I feel like someone is gonna lolhammer or something before you can finish the pivot to someone else. Can you confirm that I'm a mason and you asked me to fakeclaim VT during the massclaim yesterday.

[SaraharaS]

Claiming mason isn't so much a gambit as it is a joke I was making since I was going to be hammered before I woke up lol

[SaraharaS]

Ugh, I know you think it's fine Nancy but I feel like someone is gonna lolhammer or something before you can finish the pivot to someone else. Can you confirm that I'm a mason and you asked me to fakeclaim VT during the massclaim yesterday.

When I picked REK amongst my other 4 choices, you were one of those other 4 picks.

@Sarah we both know this isn’t true.

also, yay

[SaraharaS]

good job town and especially Pyro for hard pushing like 3 of the scum! i don't agree that i'd have been TRing W&P during the earlier readslist, but my bussing without scumreading them first was uh... pretty dumb. like scumslip levels of dumb...

Titus suggested not responding to MT's thing so i followed that because i wasn't super paying attention to that stuff
The replace outs were annoying - especially Saudade's
That vig shoot was a good gamewinning shot. Nice decision.

sadly the masonary existing made me hate pretty much every minute of this game, just like i was expecting
i'm definitely not getting tricked into playing another one of these while there's masons around (whether or not they actually mattered, because i agree with everything i said about incentives/following the stump)
and ESPECIALLY not when there are super mean sadists like Titus forcing you to roll scum