Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys, I'm not big strong or townie but I am very polite, and I heard people liked that round here.

[furtiveglance]

I have one townread so far: Hiraki

[furtiveglance]

ok I lied, I also think Lucian is town.

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Infinity sus, lowkey but also highkey like very sus.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Infinity

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uwu

[furtiveglance]

What's the likeliest ratios in the setup? 10/3 and 10/2/1?

[furtiveglance]

Ok, I actually didn't see that froggo voted Infinity.

[furtiveglance]

I just found them sus

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I also think Lucian is town though. And I think Aisa is town. CSF is kinda sus vibes for me.

[furtiveglance]

I just found them sus

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

"They seem fine" on Infinity. That ain't paired. It's T/T or imo, S/T.

[furtiveglance]

Didn't mean to quote that

[furtiveglance]

And do you have infinity as town?

Not really, but the Infinity vote is already outdated because 4 ppl were on it super early. So I'm starting a new trend.

[furtiveglance]

@furtive: Elaborate on the CSF sus vibes?

It's not really an elaborate sus. It's a caveman sus, from deep inside me.

[furtiveglance]

And do you have infinity as town?

Not really, but the Infinity vote is already outdated because 4 ppl were on it super early. So I'm starting a new trend.

Why were you scumreading Infinity when you placed your vote there?

Voting froggo who I TRed was a sus move, that's it really, but I've done a U-turn now.

[furtiveglance]

I think Lucian, Aisa, Infinity and froggo are all town.

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

[furtiveglance]

They were mod confirmed to be town.

[furtiveglance]

GE, were you making a point in asking me that? I forgot in that moment that they existed, I was just thinking who seems towny.

[furtiveglance]

GE, were you making a point in asking me that? I forgot in that moment that they existed, I was just thinking who seems towny.

Klick listed them tho so I wanted to try to see if you'd say something weird

What would I say that's weird? A cringey joke about them being scum?!?

[furtiveglance]

The reason why I suspect CSF is that going from saying that Infinity "seems fine" to voting them was odd. Now, I'm not suspecting her for voting someone she said seems fine, I know building wagons for the sake of wagons is a thing. But if it's a Townie doing that, they usually seem more present for the wagon building, or at least show more interest in it afterwards? While CSF's thought process seemed to be more like "vote Infinity so it looks like I'm having progressions!"

It's a bit difficult to explain, let me know if I didn't get the point across. Like, I'd expect more interest from a Townie that voted someone for the sake of building a wagon on them to read them, and I'm not sensing that interest from CSF.

I think Lucian, Aisa, Infinity and froggo are all town.

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

The reason why I think BBT is Town is because "scum isn't more likely to be relaxed! That is completely NAI!!" is a very stupid hill to choose to die on as scum. Scum usually has a bit more self-awareness, he reads like a stubborn Townie to me.

I've seen scum do things like this, and done it myself. Because it makes people townread you until your push flips.

[furtiveglance]

And do you have infinity as town?

Not really, but the Infinity vote is already outdated because 4 ppl were on it super early. So I'm starting a new trend.

Why were you scumreading Infinity when you placed your vote there?

Voting froggo who I TRed was a sus move, that's it really, but I've done a U-turn now.

Why didn't you say froggo was a townread in 45?

Wasn't as strong a townread I guess.

[furtiveglance]

Gamma Emerald, I am a dead fish apparently (according to others). Read newbie 2097 dead chat, Bell called me a blockhead and dense!

[furtiveglance]

Not sure how much furtive's play has evolved since I spectated a scum game of theirs a couple months ago, but I think this might be town!furtive.
p-edit: aha I have perfect timing

You'd have caught me if I was scum for sure! (did I just TMI you as town?) uwu

[furtiveglance]

I need to stop saying uwu. This is my last post containing that dreaded, cursed phrase all game. This I swear.

[furtiveglance]

Gamma Emerald, I am a dead fish apparently (according to others). Read newbie 2097 dead chat, Bell called me a blockhead and dense!

your responses to me feel pensive tho, like you don't wanna give too much away

[furtiveglance]

anything other than what you said specifically or something along those lines would've been interesting. Even just saying no read because no posts is more content than what you said.

Do you get anything from me calling Hiraki scum?

you at least felt comfortable enough to make that joke, so you get a townpoint.

You've played on this site for 6 years. Have you never seen mafia *make a joke*?

[furtiveglance]

Don't get me wrong, I TR Lucian, but that's just some low level analysis, it looks lazy.

[furtiveglance]

It didn't seem that way, considering you read alignment into my straight-up response enough to vote me.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah furtive’s scumgame seems to be pretty dry between that and my own example of chromavalon

I'd say the key difference is the amount of analysis that I give (and that also depends on how invested I am in a game). If I'm scum I'll probably post more irrelevant stuff, and show little to no progression on reads. I'm also prone to tunneling as scum. This post is an example of a nothing post, I'm just talking generally about my playstyle.

[furtiveglance]

I don't like the way Lucian has responded about their read on Aisa

207 following 203 is suspicious from furtiveglance

Is it, why? I didn't realise I had to keep everyone up to date with all of my thoughts. It's disappointing that people sell (and buy) the 'inconsistency = scum' argument. I don't think it really applies to games I've played, in fact I'm less consistent as town because my thoughts constantly change, I'm not playing one solid character all game.

[furtiveglance]

I admit that there was an inconsistency, my reads were pretty fluid at the time. I'll direct you to the post just above yours about why inconsistency is a towntell more than anything.

[furtiveglance]

I'm glad you "followed the whole multiquote" as you say, but I don't think we need VAR on this one because I haven't committed a foul!

[furtiveglance]

Ok seeing as some people started getting a bit shady towards me I thought I'd lazily pocket the conftown, and suggest we all vote with Hiraki, use them as a Day Vig in a way.

[furtiveglance]

furtive feels like mafia. they are giving content but they aren't actively questioning people, just reading and then saying things into the sky. like they aren't actually using their voice to solve, just to show they are doing things.

VOTE: furtiveglance

i have some other thoughts to share too but i think they are better left unsaid -- so i will just give you this cryptic statement instead!

I usually scumread the opposite - when people are just asking others about their reads and not producing enough analysis themselves. So I'll take this vote as a compliment.

[furtiveglance]

Also, froggo, if there are secret reasons you scumread me, I can't really refute those.

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Mala I sus you.

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Why use the word 'kill'? Is that on the brain?

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I set a new trend. Unsurprising.

What is surprising is that froggo is straddling scumreading me and sheeping me? Have you got any splinters there froggo, with all that fence sitting?

[furtiveglance]

This wagon feels quite gucci, like a red or purple flip will happen.

[furtiveglance]

Purple = SK

[furtiveglance]

GE, I noticed your absence from this wagon. Does it make you nervous?

[furtiveglance]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

[furtiveglance]

THINK FURTIVE THINK!
WHY WOULD

I

TAKE NOTICE OF

YOU

TALKING ABOUT COLORS?

I do know, but I don't think you really have a point. If you think you do, you can share it with the group.

I'm going to let my votes do the talking.

[furtiveglance]

SK is purple (Killer) on my home site mafia.gg, that's why I said that.

[furtiveglance]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

[furtiveglance]

I set a new trend. Unsurprising.

What is surprising is that froggo is straddling scumreading me and sheeping me? Have you got any splinters there froggo, with all that fence sitting?

voting on the same wagon as you is not sheeping you. i would rather kill you than CSF. but i would also rather get a wagon going on a scummy player than on no one.

1) It is
2) We're both scummy then. Am I bussing, what's going on here?

[furtiveglance]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

do you have reason to sus me other than that I'm not voting CSF?

You haven't mentioned CSF once - high partner equity.

[furtiveglance]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

do you have reason to sus me other than that I'm not voting CSF?

You haven't mentioned CSF once - high partner equity.

For low-level scum that would be +partner equity, but I'm not low-level scum.

Ok, I didn't mean to offend you, high level scum it is!

What do you actually think of CSF then? They just voted Aisa without acknowledging the wagon on them, is that towny or scummy?

[furtiveglance]

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

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The thing that sticks in my mind is them asking GE whether they would sheep them on a read - the concept of having good reads or bad reads showed a Town POV.

[furtiveglance]

If i was IC would you follow me?

This post.

[furtiveglance]

Not watertight but better than null.

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I townread Aisa. They seem really genuine.

Yeah I'm not sure about Klick myself, or froggo, but I TR Lucian/Infinity.

[furtiveglance]

I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

Did you ever go into this beyond vibes?

349 is probably the most analysis I've seen from you this game. I voted you because I wasn't sure what your reads were or if you had any, which is instant partner equity with everyone. Then there's vote hopping which I don't really like in general. And when a few of my townreads hopped on, it made me think we'd all voted mafia together.

[furtiveglance]

CSF, you townread GE quite early on, are you still thinking Town for them?

[furtiveglance]

CSF, you townread GE quite early on, are you still thinking Town for them?

Because I don't really think you're paired looking at it, I just sus you both individually.

[furtiveglance]

I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

Did you ever go into this beyond vibes?

349 is probably the most analysis I've seen from you this game. I voted you because I wasn't sure what your reads were or if you had any, which is instant partner equity with everyone. Then there's vote hopping which I don't really like in general. And when a few of my townreads hopped on, it made me think we'd all voted mafia together.

yeah that's fair

I've been kind of out of it these last 2 days so I haven't gotten my head into the game. so I can kind of understand the wagon on me, if that makes sense

p-edit: I don't remember townreading GE like super early, but I do think he's town now, yeah. I don't really know how to explain it beyond "gut" - like these posts just make me think he's town: 302, 303

Those are two of their scummiest posts for me. It's "wow you're trynna sus me lMaO" and *caps about something irrelevant*

[furtiveglance]

It's one of those where GE's superior attitude and pointed comments are simultaneously a *general* towntell and rubbing me the wrong way regardless of alignment. I've seen it from both alignments, and I don't like it either way.

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Talking to you makes me want to unvote. I'm a bit of a softie.

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I don't know anymore. Don't hammer before I come back, I'm going to bed.

[furtiveglance]

I have awoken from my slumber. I was tossing and turning all night, fever nightmares of unexpected town flips and scum claiming PR and living forever.

Anyway, the only votes I like on this here Votecount 1.13 are on CSF and Malakittens.

[furtiveglance]

I cc townreading Aisa, I did that first, I disagree about GE but since everyone else TRs them I'll accept it. Lucian is so town.

[furtiveglance]

I guess Aisa voting Lucian is a little weird. If they find a vote that pleases me more all will be forgiven.

[furtiveglance]

Oh, I worry about the fact I misread you in Terminator all the time. I have a notes PT (more like memes and sillyposting PT) this game and made this a couple days ago:

Spoiler: the meme I made

You just feel... really different. If you're scum this game the difference in motivation is staggering

Oh jeez. Now I have to consider whether or not someone would generate a meme in order to prove a town POV as scum.

I don't think CSF has got any townier either, still like my vote there. BBT needs to give more content. Enchant still leans town to me. Froggo is giving me sus vibes lately. I would love to post more, if I'm alive by tomorrow evening I'll start being more active again - I didn't say VLA because I thought I'd get wifi in the hotel I'm in, not sure about the youth hostel tomorrow!

[furtiveglance]

Oh - I quoted that post bc sus vibes from froggo, seemed a bit LAMIST.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not sure why BBT is declining to share his thoughts about the Enchant/CSF wagons - the most likely eliminations. It's partly why I'm scumreading him, but also his interactions with froggo look like scum grilling town to me.

[furtiveglance]

I see BBT paired with CSF not Enchant - that would explain why BBT's vote for Enchant was unexplained.

[furtiveglance]

but also his interactions with froggo look like scum grilling town to me.

any way you can explain this further? might help myself and others see what you see

Yeah. You gave ground and said sorry, which goes further than scum usually do.

As for BBT, they didn't sound that authentic in their reasoning and even after talking to you, they didn't finish with an update of their current thoughts, just opened it up to the floor, which doesn't convince me at all and looks like scummy indifference rather than towny zeal. First thing I noticed is that they're not even voting you.

[furtiveglance]

Deadline is in 3 days. I've seen people give 24 hours for CCs to a claim (although CCs don't seem particularly useful in this setup considering multiples of the same roles are very possible).

So when do we bite the bullet and put someone to E-1? We're only getting closer and closer. I don't have any super confident SRs rn so if people can start making clear and concise cases on who they think is the best choice that would be lovely

Conftown is on Enchant so probably the bookies' favourite (yes I'm British), my preferred choice is CSF (or even BBT).

[furtiveglance]

Deadline is in 3 days. I've seen people give 24 hours for CCs to a claim (although CCs don't seem particularly useful in this setup considering multiples of the same roles are very possible).

So when do we bite the bullet and put someone to E-1? We're only getting closer and closer. I don't have any super confident SRs rn so if people can start making clear and concise cases on who they think is the best choice that would be lovely

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

[furtiveglance]

Where did my CSF wagon go? I feel like they are scum still.

[furtiveglance]

But, I prefer voting BBT to Enchant, and seeing as everyone else has moved, I will too. I wouldn't do this is CSF was close to plurality.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: BBT

This feels good.

[furtiveglance]

Comment on Enchant, CSF and GE.

[furtiveglance]

I've had you in my sights, and now others see the light.

Half-rhyme

[furtiveglance]

Not voting froggo?

[furtiveglance]

Not voting froggo?

No. Shading me for all of D1 and not voting me

190, 202, 301 and 342 mention you, not many of my posts, before I started explaining my read on you in earnest earlier today.

I also pushed/sussed Infinity, CSF (a lot), Dunnstral, GE and Malakittens today. You're not special.

[furtiveglance]

Can you remind me why you suspect me

Because you have so few reads (me/Klick scum) so as to pair with all of my scumreads, and probe others to explain their reads without contributing much yourself.

[furtiveglance]

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

I've seen scum do things like this, and done it myself. Because it makes people townread you until your push flips.

Talking about me ^^^

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

I don't think CSF has got any townier either, still like my vote there. BBT needs to give more content. Enchant still leans town to me.

I'm not sure why BBT is declining to share his thoughts about the Enchant/CSF wagons - the most likely eliminations. It's partly why I'm scumreading him, but also his interactions with froggo look like scum grilling town to me.

I see BBT paired with CSF not Enchant - that would explain why BBT's vote for Enchant was unexplained.

As for BBT, they didn't sound that authentic in their reasoning and even after talking to you, they didn't finish with an update of their current thoughts, just opened it up to the floor, which doesn't convince me at all and looks like scummy indifference rather than towny zeal. First thing I noticed is that they're not even voting you.

Conftown is on Enchant so probably the bookies' favourite (yes I'm British), my preferred choice is CSF (or even BBT).

But, I prefer voting BBT to Enchant, and seeing as everyone else has moved, I will too. I wouldn't do this is CSF was close to plurality.

VOTE: BBT

This feels good.

All of Furtive's shading before finally feeling like he has the support to vote me.

Scum angling for a BBT wagon, 100%.

Before 507 you were just in my poe. From that point on I started scumreading you more, and it did feel good when others agreed. I voted you because everyone moved off CSF and I didn't want to eliminate Enchant, not for the very reason that other people voted you.

[furtiveglance]

507 is particularly scummy from Furtive.

He states that I have 'declined' to comment on Enchant and CSF wagons. Firstly, I wasn't asked about them at that point so to use the word 'decline' is a misrep. I was simply focused elsewhere at the same and it's that simple.

He also says I haven't commented on the CSF wagon - it had 2 votes when I had caught up? Like, what?

I didn't say that people asked you to comment. I expect people to engage with the leading wagons, that's basic gameplay. CSF had 4 at one point.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

Maybe not. This is a good vote on Furtive.

I also said this early on in my catch up, so I have clearly disliked Furtive's play from the early game. I only looked into his progression on me as it became more and more obvious that a) a potential BBT wagon was coming and b) Furtive was looking mighty opportunistic.

To call me opportunistic is laughable. What's opportunistic is silently sheeping the conftown on Enchant, which you've still never acknowledged or explained. I've led counter wagons to the confirmed's vote twice, because that's how confident I am in my scumreads. I know how I look if Enchant flips scum, or if you flip town. That's a risk. That's the opposite of opportunistic play.

[furtiveglance]

Cool.

Well, I tell you what. I'm happy to be the elim Today if you're the elim on D2 on my green flip? How about that? Because I can't be assed with the effort of defending myself in yet another fucking game.

I'll do you one better (worse).

Vote me now. GE will hop on, Dunnstral, maybe CSF or froggo. There's an appetite for it.

If you CBA to defend yourself, then what's the point in playing anyway? This is the game, you've chosen to lurk and selectively interact with the playerlist, it makes you look scummy. Do you think that's unfair?

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: BBT no longer thinking this flips scum

Acc he has a point on furtive I retract my townread there

There you go, elim me today!

[furtiveglance]

Cool.

Well, I tell you what. I'm happy to be the elim Today if you're the elim on D2 on my green flip? How about that? Because I can't be assed with the effort of defending myself in yet another fucking game.

For anyone confusing this for towntelling, don't worry.

Town doesn't just shut down and go "I flip town, wanna bet?" when they have no more points to make. "Idc just vote me" is not a towntell. Swearing is not a towntell.

[furtiveglance]

Ok. You never talked about Enchant or CSF, the main 2 wagons for most of the day. And when I asked you just said No. That's a choice that you've made. Why?

[furtiveglance]

CSF and now BBT are looking scum, I think BBT's push on Lucian is way too agressive, just looks out of place and kind of restless, agitating for someone to push.

Your CSF and BBT reads are stale as fuck. You have held them since here and shown 0 signs of reevaluating. You just paint everything from either slot as scum. As you said in your own self meta, you're tunneling.

This should be plain for anyone to see.

Also, if you're town leaning Enchant, why haven't you tried to stop the wagon?

What do you think I'm doing right now? I'm opposing the Enchant wagon, I have done several times.

[furtiveglance]

I don't explain myself to scum.

Translation: My partner CSF was being voted, so I caused a distraction.

[furtiveglance]

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

[furtiveglance]

Pre-flip associatives are bad and you're going to look very silly.

I play every game running this risk and very often end up looking silly, but it's better to be loud and wrong than agreeable with no opinions.

[furtiveglance]

i mean after the past few pages i still don't have more than a slight scumlean on BBT. still prefer csf to be honest. i guess furtive is towny for agreeing with me there (also i don't really see a reason for scum to be starting a big fight here? maybe if like enchant is a buddy. idk)

Do you mean 'prefer' eliminating CSF? Because you unvoted them.

[furtiveglance]

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

With this list, the phrase 'have done enough for a temporary townpass' was only really about Infinity and Klick. The other three I'd say haven't done enough to be town, but also haven't stood out to me as scummy in the same way that my bottom three have.

[furtiveglance]

Also, other people are free to make their own lists. In fact, that's probably a better way of sharing information than taking issue with one or two of my placements.

[furtiveglance]

I really like CSF's 582.

I looked at Terminator. From what I gathered, Enchant replaced into a hame, and within half an hour hammered a choice in that phase (after voting a different person for seemingly no reason too).

When asked why he hammered, this was his response:

I'd consider enchant.

Enchant, why did you hammer me for leader instead of hectic? We were both at e-1

Idk i saw message "if you heal CSF day will end", i didn't really look votecounts.

Compared to that, this line here:

Need to think before i vote.

feels like a blatant lie.

Yeah, this is quite convincing. My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

[furtiveglance]

Enchant is always hard to read.

[furtiveglance]

Bad list ^^

[furtiveglance]

How is 'seems ok' different from 'eh'?

[furtiveglance]

I've basically given my thoughts on this day 1, and have nothing else to say.

[furtiveglance]

I think I've given quite a lot of input.

[furtiveglance]

Is there something you want to ask me? What input are you missing from me? I've given my thoughts on the gamestate, each individual player, pairings, claiming, strategy.......

[furtiveglance]

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

[furtiveglance]

I have awoken from my slumber. I was tossing and turning all night, fever nightmares of unexpected town flips and scum claiming PR and living forever.

Anyway, the only votes I like on this here Votecount 1.13 are on CSF and

Malakittens

.

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/

Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass

, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

Hmm?
For the record the only Mala post between these two posts is

I have a bunch of exams and hw due this week all scattered so I’m focusing on that sorry guys

Could you explain this furtive?

I explained that in 604. Mala hadn't seemed as scummy as other players.

[furtiveglance]

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

so to break this down

• OMGUS
  
• disagreement on reads
  
• vague platitutde about how scum play
  
• disagreement on reads again

The first part isn't omgus, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy when you called my scumread on you 'BS' even though your reasoning for your own scumread on me is next to non-existent. Disagreement on reads is something I consider alignment indicative, I didn't realise that was a foreign concept. As for the 'vague platitude', you're not ruffling any feathers apart from mine and Enchant's. Enchant was already the consensus scumread, and there's an appetite to push me as well from several players so both of your scumreads are quite safe.

[furtiveglance]

Hello everyone welcome to my quote wall. Make yourselves comfortable

Spoiler: quote

507 is particularly scummy from Furtive.

He states that I have 'declined' to comment on Enchant and CSF wagons. Firstly, I wasn't asked about them at that point so to use the word 'decline' is a misrep. I was simply focused elsewhere at the same and it's that simple.

He also says I haven't commented on the CSF wagon - it had 2 votes when I had caught up? Like, what?

I didn't say that people asked you to comment. I expect people to engage with the leading wagons, that's basic gameplay. CSF had 4 at one point.

Would you expect Enchant to engage with the leading wagons? If you wouldn't that shows people have different playstyles and may not always feel the need to engage with the leading wagons?

Spoiler: quote

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

Maybe not. This is a good vote on Furtive.

I also said this early on in my catch up, so I have clearly disliked Furtive's play from the early game. I only looked into his progression on me as it became more and more obvious that a) a potential BBT wagon was coming and b) Furtive was looking mighty opportunistic.

To call me opportunistic is laughable. What's opportunistic is silently sheeping the conftown on Enchant, which you've still never acknowledged or explained. I've led counter wagons to the confirmed's vote twice, because that's how confident I am in my scumreads. I know how I look if Enchant flips scum, or if you flip town. That's a risk. That's the opposite of opportunistic play.

Leaning into the WIFOM heavily eh?

Spoiler: quote

Cool.

Well, I tell you what. I'm happy to be the elim Today if you're the elim on D2 on my green flip? How about that? Because I can't be assed with the effort of defending myself in yet another fucking game.

For anyone confusing this for towntelling, don't worry.

Town doesn't just shut down and go "I flip town, wanna bet?" when they have no more points to make. "Idc just vote me" is not a towntell. Swearing is not a towntell.

I actually don't find the quoted post from BBT particularly towny. Like, everything else in their interaction is what I found towny. This strikes me as possibly the type of post scum might misjudge as seeming very towny?

Spoiler: quote

I really like CSF's 582.

I looked at Terminator. From what I gathered, Enchant replaced into a hame, and within half an hour hammered a choice in that phase (after voting a different person for seemingly no reason too).

When asked why he hammered, this was his response:

I'd consider enchant.

Enchant, why did you hammer me for leader instead of hectic? We were both at e-1

Idk i saw message "if you heal CSF day will end", i didn't really look votecounts.

Compared to that, this line here:

Need to think before i vote.

feels like a blatant lie.

Yeah, this is quite convincing. My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

Enchant is always hard to read.

Convenient how this read on Ench changed just as:
- The BBT wagon lost a little steam
- More pressure built on furtive
- Enchant has a lot of votes on them and we're at end of day
(Though if furtive is scum it's interesting to consider what alignment Enchant is)

Spoiler: quote

I've basically given my thoughts on this day 1, and have nothing else to say.

This doesn't feel like a towny thing to say. Now, I haven't been the best at following people's read progression and remembering every single post people have made this game, sooo I could be wrong. But as far as I remember, furtive hasn't really substantiated their CSF read much beyond "it's a sus from deep inside me, a caveman sus". I think that town in furtive's position has plenty of things they can still do. furtive's made a lot of statements like "X is sus" but done comparatively little to actually get votes on their scumreads.

Spoiler: quote

Is there something you want to ask me? What input are you missing from me? I've given my thoughts on the gamestate, each individual player, pairings, claiming, strategy.......

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

First post: "I've said everything I could possibly say. What input are you missing?"
Gamma: "You haven't backed up your SR on me"
Second post: "I don't have much evidence but don't believe I need to provide the evidence"
This reads to me like furtive doesn't actually have a consistent internal process

6 points here, I'm not good with strip quoting so a listed response will have to do. I'm going to assume you're town for the purpose of this response.

1) I would expect BBT to engage with the leading wagons.

2) No, not deliberately. I was called opportunistic and I don't think that's fair, I always want to be outspoken.

3) That post did make me question my death tunnel on BBT a bit, and that reply from me was mostly fuelled by emotion rather than logic.

4) Well, Lucian made a good point about Enchant, and I also recall our Chromavalon game in which they were prodded as mafia. So I'm wondering whether I've been on the wrong side of history. Why wouldn't I question my position, when confirmed town and my strong TRs are on Enchant?

5) Maybe this wasn't the best response, but I was more than slightly annoyed that I was asked to 'provide some useful content' or something similar, when I feel like I've given more than the average player this game, and definitely more than the player who made that comment.

6) It's more like:

First post: Is there something more specific you want to know, rather than just accusing me of not contributing?
GE: Your scumread on me was BS, explain it more
Second post:

Explains my read

. I said that I read alignment into difference in reads, and that GE has played a safe game (this was in 635).

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Enchant

That's E-1.

Time to claim.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not really buying it, but I'll unvote anyway to see what others think.

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: Enchant

[furtiveglance]

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

This you?

Yes it's me. I literally said I'm not buying it, but I want to allow discussion first. If others also doubt the claim I will re-vote.

[furtiveglance]

My idea of something both fun and useful in this game is not getting into an argument about the semantics of 'shading' when it's really clear that I'm saying I think furtive!scum barely interacts with his partners and puts them at null-scum, which would fit if he was scum with you.

Especially not useful as I don't really think furtive is scum here.

I'm gonna put you in null/scum now.

[furtiveglance]

I think Klick is town for doubting the claim so hard, I think mafia would approach it more like froggo is doing.

[furtiveglance]

Malcolm. I'll take that as a compliment.

[furtiveglance]

i think they meant malcolm tucker, another user

[furtiveglance]

ok. no exploiting from me anyway.

[furtiveglance]

Sounds like you're regretting it?

No I just don’t see how my reaction is scummy when I could’ve ended the day and not allowed for any of this discourse to happen.

But you didn't know that we would start sussing you more at that point.

[furtiveglance]

I don't really like the "I could have hammered" thing. It implies that you TR Enchant, which you also claim not to.

[furtiveglance]

If you’re scumcasing me for a bad reaction to the Doc claim then you are also assuming Enchant is legit lol

No, I'm saying if your towncase on yourself is "I could have hammered X", it only makes sense if X is town. If X is mafia, "I could have hammered mafia and didn't" isn't a towncase, it's a scumcase. See what I mean?

[furtiveglance]

Hot take, scum doesn't usually say "goddamn, I wish I had done this scummy thing when I had the chance". I'm guessing froggo is Town.

Literally lol'd

Do you agree or not?

[furtiveglance]

mmm. I love vibes.

[furtiveglance]

Furtive, you still think Enchant is town?

I think you should have been able to tell I didn't when I said I thought they were lying about being Doctor.

[furtiveglance]

I think Aisa and GE both have sus reactions to this claim, whatever it flips.

[furtiveglance]

I do want Enchant to be the elimination, I'm aware that we have a day to talk still.

[furtiveglance]

If we ignore Enchant for a second, Aisa/Dunnstral have gone down in my reads and BBT/CSF have gone up.

[furtiveglance]

Froggo is my lowkey SK read, they're scummy but not really paired with anyone because everyone susses them.

[furtiveglance]

But CSF complained about my furtive scumcase, so I was going to reconsider that.

You don’t have to agree with me!

Also, Aisa, I responded to that post. What did you think?

[furtiveglance]

I think Aisa and GE both have sus reactions to this claim, whatever it flips.

If no reaction is a scummy reaction then ig my reaction was scummy
If that’s not what you meant then you’re pulling things out of your ass

As for Aisa, I don’t like the essentially nothing that she said about the claim itself but I feel like she’s been towny enough before that to still be a TR.

Yeah, you voted someone else (froggo). You're staying off but not really saying to unvote Enchant either.

[furtiveglance]

If we ignore Enchant for a second, Aisa/Dunnstral have gone down in my reads and BBT/CSF have gone up.

Why has Dunnstral gone down?

Should have been lower in the first place, just little thread presence and kind of active lurking.

[furtiveglance]

furtive does enchant's flip change your reads at all?

-simon

Short answer is no.

[furtiveglance]

You, Dunnstral, Malakittens, Froggo and even Aisa.

[furtiveglance]

I also don't think a lot of Froggo's analysis is genuine.

is this anything I can refute or just a vibe you get from me?

You should omgus

[furtiveglance]

The only stances Mala had were
>kill enchant
>Don’t kill Gamma
>don’t kill CSF
ig if CSF is town/SK it’s possible Mala was killed by mafia for low-info and to snuff out some solid reads

Oh you smoked Mala to say they TRed you? Nice one, I TR you now

[furtiveglance]

I'm actually thinking slightly differently on Klick. I said I TRed them for their confidence in the scum flip. Funnily enough, that was because I was thinking Enchant might flip town.

[furtiveglance]

I and others DOUBTED the claim, but Klick was very confident indeed. It's the kind of thing where I wouldn't vote Klick today, but maybe keep that in the back of my mind.

[furtiveglance]

Skimming through when enchant first got voted and furtive is catching my attention.

Spoiler:

Was initially opposed to the enchant vote:

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

The thing that sticks in my mind is them asking GE whether they would sheep them on a read - the concept of having good reads or bad reads showed a Town POV.

and mentions Enchant when talking to other players multiple times, but never once tries to actually interact with Enchant. this is something I thought was scummy of furtive earlier in the game but now that it applies directly to a flipped scum I think it's a lot more concerning.

My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

this also doesn't align with their earlier TR of enchant

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

With this list, the phrase 'have done enough for a temporary townpass' was only really about Infinity and Klick. The other three I'd say haven't done enough to be town, but also haven't stood out to me as scummy in the same way that my bottom three have.

here is furtive trying to sneak Enchant into their "townpass" list

I'm not really buying it, but I'll unvote anyway to see what others think.

could see this coming from town but it's certainly fence-sitty and an unvote on scum is an unvote on scum.

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

This you?

Yes it's me. I literally said I'm not buying it, but I want to allow discussion first. If others also doubt the claim I will re-vote.

nice one from BBT again, wack that yall think BBT is scum

Cat Scratch Fever (E-2): furtiveglance, Lucian, Infinity 324, froggodoggo, Klick

and to backtrack a bit, furtive was on the early CSF wagon, and i'm pretty sure CSF is town. Klick and Lucian also look pretty good IMO so I think furtive being a scum on this wagon fits nicely.

VOTE: furtiveglance

BBT and others who TR furtive, talk to me about why please?? this ISO is riddled with scumpings that connect them to Enchant and I want em outta here

Ayo why me breh?

On the real though, I was initially wrong on Enchant but reconsidered when Hiraki and Lucian (conftown and strong TR) voted them, and Lucian in particular made a strong case on them. As for "unvote on scum is an unvote on scum", I didn't want a Doctor to get hammered before anyone weighed in. I literally said I didn't buy the claim and supported that elimination.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sus

[furtiveglance]

But I just voted Dunn. Town points pleeeeeeease

[furtiveglance]

I do think my Townread on froggo did go down quite a bit. The "damn I should've hammered!" read I had yesterday is probably not that Townie, considering Enchant did flip scum.

froggo also fits in the group of players that didn't vote Enchant up to claim, but did vote him after the claim.

True but I had intent to put Enchant at E-1 until furtive beat me to it

New term: Intent to E-1.

That's not a thing LMFAO

[furtiveglance]

Froggo really trynna scrape himself some towncred for 'intent to E-1', this slot needs to go today or tomorrow.

[furtiveglance]

I do think my Townread on froggo did go down quite a bit. The "damn I should've hammered!" read I had yesterday is probably not that Townie, considering Enchant did flip scum.

froggo also fits in the group of players that didn't vote Enchant up to claim, but did vote him after the claim.

True but I had intent to put Enchant at E-1 until furtive beat me to it

Cmon man. You did this to yourself, I'm not putting anything in your mouth.

[furtiveglance]

Putting Enchant at E-1 in 6 hrs if no one else has done so already

Why make this post? Why 6 hours?

Has anyone else seen 'Intent to E-1' before? I haven't.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah vote me off, not the guy who 'Intent to E-1'ed mafia then brought it up when someone said he didn't vote said mafia. :LOL:

[furtiveglance]

I guess we could be partners in terms of vibes, or like star-crossed partners with different alignments. Also, isn't it sus that I just showed up when I was namedropped? Shows a real survivalist mentality, furtive wants to live and doesn't care about solving.

[furtiveglance]

Infinity, I like cereal. And we should work together.

[furtiveglance]

Basically, I'm softing Serial Killer so that we can chill on each other and vote town together.

[furtiveglance]

That vote was always coming. I might need to do a cheeky self pres soon.

[furtiveglance]

Let me put my serious hat back on.

Infinity isn't self preserving on Froggo, or Dunnstral, or Gamma, who are kind of the consensus scumreads (or were earlier today).

They're trying to widen the poe by including me and CSF, it looks paired with another popular scumread, so I think we're doing well.

OR they just sus me and CSF and are town.

[furtiveglance]

I guess I'm some kind of hero now for generating some content. Just a day in the life.

[furtiveglance]

Basically, I'm softing Serial Killer so that we can chill on each other and vote town together.

Why did you say this though?

I thought it was funny.

[furtiveglance]

Is it you I'm wrong on furtive?

Is it me you're looking for?

[furtiveglance]

Seriously though why town lean Dunnstral? They're so sus. Just so wolfy.

[furtiveglance]

I should probably 'give my thoughts on the main wagon' since I scumread someone for not doing that D1.

Infinity is sus, don't get me wrong. I feel like scum!Infinity didn't have to go for me though, froggo was an easier pivot (maybe I misread the room on that one).

So I'm basically thinking either froggo/Infinity are paired, or Infinity is town.

[furtiveglance]

Infinity, my vibes are very towny!

[furtiveglance]

also i need to see if i need to review my furtive read. vibes feel very towny but a systemmate is telling me that an enchant red flip would make furtive look bad

-ash

Here.

There is an acceptance that Enchant will flip red as they're already pre-emption their next moves upon said red flip.

It's hardly a surprise that they have stuck with this read.

Yeah maybe they thought I was the easier pivot. As for the setting me up, yeah I don't really like it.

[furtiveglance]

Maybe I should try and set up GE on an Infinity red flip, just to pay it forward.

1152 feels a bit "I will vote my partner if their death is inevitable, but not if someone else is at risk of elimination".

[furtiveglance]

I should probably 'give my thoughts on the main wagon' since I scumread someone for not doing that D1.

Infinity is sus, don't get me wrong. I feel like scum!Infinity didn't have to go for me though, froggo was an easier pivot (maybe I misread the room on that one).

So I'm basically thinking either froggo/Infinity are paired, or Infinity is town.

ngl that would explain froggo’s jump on you.

Oh you just agreed with me? But then I sussed YOU!

[furtiveglance]

I just thought it was funny timing.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not attacking you, I just thought "I'll vote Infinity later" gave me reluctance vibes. Pay it forward is usually used in a wholesome sense so that was just the phrase I used.

[furtiveglance]

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

why?

This reminds me that part of my Dunn TR is him reacting as I would have hoped to me pressing furtive on using specific colors for specific alignments, since furtive got caught on that in Chromavalon

I didn't get caught for anything in Chromavalon. My Merlin just banged on about it to show that they had a guilty on me.

[furtiveglance]

I don't like thinking about that game. I had the right solve and my teammates disagreed.

[furtiveglance]

1196 is making me doubt my old townread on froggo even further, so consider him back on my list of suspects I guess.

Town: CSF, furtive, Gamma, BBT, Hiraki
Town-ish?: Dunn, Aisa
PoE: Infinity, Klick, froggo

The recent few posts from Aisa seemed alright.

Pedit: you're welcome!

Can you move me down to Town-ish? I don't want to be nightkilled.

[furtiveglance]

I'll scumcase Dunnstral when I come back in about an hour.

[furtiveglance]

Dunnstral's voting record is Klick and Malakittens, both yesterday. From what I gathered of their actual reads, they've sussed Lucian once and me twice. I have no idea who they think is mafia right now, they aren't voting, just making really pointless reads like BBT/Froggo aren't paired.

[furtiveglance]

No, I went out for an hour and then looked at your 48 post ISO for a few minutes. I would've quoted but I didn't find much of note.

Who are your scumreads?

[furtiveglance]

@furtive, have you ever elaborated on your Dunn read/vote? If not, can you?

I'll scumcase Dunnstral when I come back in about an hour.

Dunnstral's voting record is Klick and Malakittens, both yesterday. From what I gathered of their actual reads, they've sussed Lucian once and me twice. I have no idea who they think is mafia right now, they aren't voting, just making really pointless reads like BBT/Froggo aren't paired.

No, I went out for an hour and then looked at your 48 post ISO for a few minutes. I would've quoted but I didn't find much of note.

Who are your scumreads?

Is this the progression of what you were doing? I take issue with you calling me scum and then looking for reasons why afterwards.

I thought of you as scum before, because I remembered you not doing anything.

[furtiveglance]

I see that my vote on Dunnstral is doing nothing, so I'll move to froggo.

VOTE: Froggo

[furtiveglance]

Hiraki is promising me locktown if this flips red, so I need to at least vote this.

[furtiveglance]

I think we should follow Hiraki again. :smort:

[furtiveglance]

it's doesn't make sense from either Town or scum

i feel like it actually does make sense from scum? like either as a cheeky joke thing or as an actual ill-conceived sk crumb. idk I've seen traitor claim traitor to people as a "reaction test". maybe i'm silly for seeing that kind of thing here but it raises alarm bells.

Yeah it was a reaction test. Not serious at all. I would never 'choose a player to visit and kill every night' or 'win if among the final 2 alive.

[furtiveglance]

Hiraki I love you. Take me to the promised land.

[furtiveglance]

I said that as well, paired with froggo maybe

[furtiveglance]

I'm around

[furtiveglance]

If one mafia wanted the kill, the others might agree.

[furtiveglance]

Dragging out days for the sake of dragging out days is anti-town.

It's clear that on this Day it is going to be Froggo or Infinity - so let's get it done.

I disagree, longer days is more information.

[furtiveglance]

No way to live.

[furtiveglance]

But then you'll kill us!

[furtiveglance]

Who's mafia right now Froggo? Me and someone I'm guessing.

[furtiveglance]

I see the argument, but if I knew there was a Doctor in the setup I'm not sure I'd out myself as 1-shot Doc just to back Enchant's claim.

[furtiveglance]

As for Froggo, I don't really read them as PR right now. I'd expect from a Doctor about to die some information about who they protected (or protected no one).

[furtiveglance]

I'm not unvoting, 1-shot Doc isn't even a great loss if Froggo is real.

[furtiveglance]

simpy

[furtiveglance]

Fingers crossed...

[furtiveglance]

Wow well done Aisa! I'll probably suspect anyone with their own PT of being PR from now on.

Having an IC definitely helped town a lot, but with 4 nightkills after 2 nights it would have been 1/1/4 I think, so much harder for town, so the Doc saves were very important.

[furtiveglance]

Dead thread is good fun. Almost sad I didn't get to join you.

Agreed Alianna did some great modding.
Great vig shot and 11th hour mechanical play by Klick. Would nom for a Best Mechanical Play scummy if that were still a thing.

My Notes PT. There isn't a lot in there because I went off it after The Post, but I think furtive may enjoy this:

I have an excel spreadsheet in which I assign people probabilities of being scum
Just knocked 1% off furtive for the uwu post
...Don't tell people I am that easy to pocket

My instincts were right. This could have been the start of something great. It is really is a shame I started doubting them later.

....

uwu

[furtiveglance]

sorry to everyone for not really giving 100%, we were already pretty demotivated and then got shitty sleep for 3 days

It's fine, once you got ran up D3 I think it was over for mafia. Hope you find your love for the game again, some games can be hard for mafia with the IC + Doc combo especially.