Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[usesPython]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[usesPython]

HURT: usesPython
HURT: Doctor Drew
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Enchant
HURT: Merlyn

[usesPython]

HURT: usesPython
HURT: Doctor Drew
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Enchant
HURT: Merlyn

That is a really weird statement. Care to explain how you got all these townreads?

Nightmare doesn't need to be full town when I can probably talk one of them into voting with me and trust Enchant to just hammer whatever

[usesPython]

What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?

[usesPython]

What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?

Probably nothing, but if I interpret the OP correctly we can only use vig with 5 players in the nightmare. Unless actually it's 5 minimum and we get more powers with more players? In which case vig is OP.

Fair enough, handing out an Innocent Child invention which

As an unmodified passive ability: The moderator will confirm your alignment.

with the Normal Invention is better than a Vig shot though

[usesPython]

my guess is it's a joke

If you ask a scum mason if they're a scum mason they have to tell you, it's like the law

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[usesPython]

I was in the middle of pushing Doctor Drew when suddenly D1 was ended fue to scum powers, and then the game was compromised D2.
So now I finally get to VOTE: Doctor Drew

This is a scum claim, I was town in the OG game.

But you will be dealt with later.

VOTE: python

Kill them before someone brings up mech talk and maths.

You're too late, we already meched on why giving Innocent Child inventions with the Normal Invention is optimal

[usesPython]

If it's given to non-town then it's not normal and would presumably fail/we get told it's not normal which would do the same thing as successfully giving it to scum? It depends on how the rule is interpreted actually when it comes to Town/Scum/SK exclusive roles

[usesPython]

If it's given to non-town then it's not normal and would presumably fail/we get told it's not normal which would do the same thing as successfully giving it to scum? It depends on how the rule is interpreted actually when it comes to Town/Scum/SK exclusive roles

@mod can we get a ruling on handing out inventions that are normal only for specific alignments?

[usesPython]

Oh cool so Innocent Child invention is still optimal. We can also give a Cult Leader Enabler to someone scummy and kill them to stop recruitment

[usesPython]

HEAL: prior proposal
HURT: everyone

I think handing out a Cult Leader Enabler to someone scummy n1 and limming them d2 is probably the optimal play and for that everyone needs to know who the Enabler is. There's likely Cult due to Cult rules being in the setup specific rules so stopping that'd be pretty good. After that just handing out IC inventions to turn the game nightless is probably best

Fair enough, handing out an Innocent Child invention which

As an unmodified passive ability: The moderator will confirm your alignment.

with the Normal Invention is better than a Vig shot though

It'd be best to clarify with the moderator if the role would function as advertised and only work if the player using it is town.

We don't want to operate under any false pretense of scum being unconfirmable only for the mod to announce the scum player as a town IC.

From the first iteration, I

believe

the IC should work as town-only. It's best to confirm 100% though.

That's not how IC works actually, IC mod confirms your alignment regardless of your alignment (so a scum IC is mod confirmed to be scum)

As an unmodified passive ability: The moderator will confirm your alignment.

---

HEAL: prior proposal

HURT: Ranger, usesPython, Doctor Drew, Save The Dragons, Abnegation, Aureal, Merlyn, camelCasedSnivy, Titus, biancospino

Once we have a dedicated town core then I believe trying to only put the town core into the Nightmare would be the best choice.
But we don't have a dedicated town core yet.

And hear me out, but there's going to be something keeping us from just using the vig invention from the nightmare as a second elimination. Scum having a doctor or such, rendering it unusable in that case if scum are in the nightmare. (If perhaps semi-confirming the targeted player to be scum.)

Giving people IC sounds like a good proposal since even scum that knows about it can't fake that... unless it's ruled that in this game Normal ICs are only confirmed at game start as opposed to confirm on request as both of those variations are Normal-valid. In which case it's then useless. Let me do a look over the other bits and see what I can figure out though...

So with that in mind

@Korina

: If there are multiple variations of a role that are normal valid, would we be able to choose which variation to give as an invention? And if not, which variation of IC would be given to a player if it is picked as an invention?

Having said all of that though.
HURT: Abnegation
Right now I think having everyone in the nightmare and just... a plan where it doesn't help scum to know what will happen from the nightmare is best.

If ICs are confirmed at the start of the game then an Activated IC invention would still work and would be even stronger

[usesPython]

Loyal Fruit Vendor is only really better than an IC assuming that there are no blocking/interfering roles, which... would be very odd in role madness I think?

It'd be very odd to not have any Roleblocker/Ascetic/Rolestopper/Alien/Commuter/etc.

Wait if we can specify a modifier too...

Bulletproof IC, easy game

Bulletproof is considered a Modifier on the Normal page and a Passive Role on the Bulletproof page so best to get a ruling on that

[usesPython]

Cult Leader Enabler is interesting, but I don't think it works unless we know the name of the cult leader role?

Kind of depends on if we can even specify variations of roles or not outside of adding modifiers.

An Enabler is linked to a specific role (such as Doctor), not types of role (such as protective); the Normal version of an Enabler is self-aware (and knows which role they enable). When the Enabler dies, all players lose the role that they are linked to, e.g. the death of a Doctor Enabler will cause every Doctor in the game (and every JOAT's Doctor ability) to become useless.

There is no requirement that the role being Enabled actually exists within the game.

[usesPython]

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

It's achievable but Activated IC/Bulletproof IC inventions are stronger

If we're handing out IC inventions then it's theoretically optimal to exclude scum so they don't get shot but getting a correct towncore of 7 people's probably impossible so yeah better to just put in everyone

[usesPython]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

[usesPython]

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

How is CL-Enabler not a normal role? Enabler's considered a Normal role

Do you really believe that if you designed a game with a [non-normal role]-Enabler Implo would let you run it as a normal?

Look just because Implo wouldn't let us run it doesn't mean it's not Normal by the rules

[usesPython]

Weird Dreams Mafia is a conspiracy by Implosion to make Normal-legal bastard roles so they get patched in the next set of Normal rules

[usesPython]

JOAT is a modular role so would a JOAT (IC, Fruit Vendor) be legal?

[usesPython]

JOAT is a modular role so would a JOAT (IC, Fruit Vendor) be legal?

I would guess not, since it says we grant "one action"

I'd see it as 1-shot JOAT giving you 1-shot of the JOAT action (so JOAT (IC, Fruit Vendor) can either IC and lose the Fruit Vending or Fruit Vend and lose the IC)

[usesPython]

I mainly didn't understand what you meant by this post. Are you nominating the entire playerlist? Or only people who posted? Or?

Entire playerlist

[usesPython]

Yeah. And I mean. We could even make it compulsive IC actually.

Strictly worse than Activated IC since Cult cant recruit them until they use the IC and scum will still nightkill them. Just force the person to IC or get limmed

[usesPython]

Like yeah we got your compulsive IC right here, it's called VOTE:

[usesPython]

I will say, keep in mind we probably (almost certainly) have a cult to deal with as well.

Hand out Activated IC's to people who'd still get limmed by ELo but aren't on the chopping block yet so that we get like 2-4 IC's going off at once?

[usesPython]

Hmm.... day 4 ICs maybe?

No reason to specify the day instead of just having it be activated and telling everyone when to use the IC but yeah that'd probably be really strong

[usesPython]

Wait if we can specify a modifier too...

Bulletproof IC, easy game

This is either Town or Cult

[usesPython]

Actually does Cult even matter when it comes to giving out IC's? Like even if they get Culted scum/third party is just gonna shoot them unless we only have one groupscum and no third party

[usesPython]

That's what the Bulletproof is for

Gonna wait until d3 before commenting more on this if Bulletproof is okay'd as a Modifier instead of a Passive Role

[usesPython]

Oh jeeze 9 pages.

I aint playing catchup.

Tldr da beef for me?

9 pages of figuring out how to give people Bulletproof Innocent Child inventions with the Normal Invention nightmare thingy. On the bright side the mech's pretty much over

[usesPython]

I work more on mech later when i have more time and can be actually invested in game. I honestly think the invention talks must wait till night phase and be in the nightmare itself and for now everyone must just focus on nightmare team to be as close as it can be to all town to be voted regarding that mech

If we're handing out Bulletproof IC inventions does it even matter if scum are in the Nightmare? Like even if we somehow got a full towncore in the nightmare either we give it to town in which case everyone knows what just happened or we give it to scum in which case everyone in the nightmare knows what happened and everyone outside it can pretty reasonably guess what happened when everyone who was in it decides they should all lim a specific person after there was a big hubbub about Bulletproof IC inventions

[usesPython]

The only situation I could see where it matters is asking people to claim their IC invention so that it's like it's 2-shot instead of 1-shot (since if non-town gets picked for the IC invention then they don't get told) if we're 100% confident on the nightmare being town, but that seems like it'd be pretty risky if we're not confident on who town is?

[usesPython]

Ah ok using it as a n1 hood makes sense

Put me in the hood I have mech stuff to talk about that I'd rather scum not see

[usesPython]

game is bastard and there might be cults and other stuff so it matters who you targeting with ic (even more if it also has a bp)
the night discussions in nightmare can be really important - and not just for invention - there are many things in this game that might be an important topic to discuss in n1

also did mod confirm a bp IC is a valid invention or not? IC is like passive on its own and can be considered modifier.

Honestly I think this is something the nightmare group better discuss in private at night phase and check with mod instead of publicly discussing here what we intend to give away right now. Based on details that can come up in a nightmare topic they might change decisions.

Worst case scenario 1-shot Activated Innocent Child is Normal legal and completely sensible. The Bulletproof part is rules-lawyering from it being considered a modifier on the Normal page but a passive role on the Bulletproof page, we're waiting on a ruling for it

[usesPython]

If we put someone in the nightmare and then lim them the same day I'm assuming they can't post/vote for actions in the nightmare?

[usesPython]

... Are PGOs Normal?

No, also you can't fake it with Reflexive Vigilante because Reflexive also isn't Normal

[usesPython]

The list of Normal Roles/Modifiers

[usesPython]

What happens if we give a 99-shot Fruit Vendor Invention, do they get 1-shot or 99-shots?

[usesPython]

Fair enough.

Had a brief vision of Disloyal PGO, which would be very spicy, and potentially change how I wanted to approach this whole thing

Disloyal Universal Backup that turns into a PGO

[usesPython]

Fair enough.

Had a brief vision of Disloyal PGO, which would be very spicy, and potentially change how I wanted to approach this whole thing

Disloyal Universal Backup that turns into a PGO

Wait no this wouldn't work

As a passive ability with a modifier: You will inherit the role of the nth faction power role who dies OR faction power roles who die on day n, losing this ability in the process.

[usesPython]

VOTE: Rautherdir

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Serious Vote btw

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Serious Vote btw

sorry I cant tell if this sarcasm or not please

Not sarcasm, it's a legit vote

[usesPython]

Let's be real here, there's like 3-4 people who are interested in mech and the rest are just waiting for it to be over so they can start playing the game

[usesPython]

Can we do something more interesting like wagoning Star?

[usesPython]

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

[usesPython]

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

[usesPython]

We're still talking about mech?

VOTE: Rautherdir

[usesPython]

i continued to vote python for their lack of meaningful content

and not using c++

but at least they're anti-mech so

only other scumlean I have is bianco since they just voted me and started talking about mech

Even C is better than C++

Also wdym no content? I know it's diluted from hyperposting but we've made our reads pretty clear and even bothered explaining some of them

[usesPython]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[usesPython]

Also wdym no content? I know it's diluted from hyperposting but we've made our reads pretty clear and even bothered explaining some of them

...who's we?

also who else is scum/scumlean to you OTHER than wheme?

We're plural

Also Rautherdir's a scumlean just less than Wheme, which hopefully should have been obvious given that we voted there before we even talked about policying anyone

[usesPython]

And also that's more scumreads than 50% of the playerlist when we were townhunting so idk why you uniquely expect so much from us

[usesPython]

We're still talking about mech?

VOTE: Rautherdir

Yes because I'm realizing that putting everyone in the nightmare is potentially a bad idea/suboptimal to a severe degree, and giving the explanation as to why.

Who do you think is town?

[usesPython]

VOTE: Rautherdir

[usesPython]

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

I am not used to this python.

I like it, but not used to it.

I mean we literally speedran the mech and came to the conclusion by like page 8 that we should give BP IC inventions if it's legal and Activated IC if it's not, any further mech talk is literally pointless and shouldn't have been going on for another 5 pages especially because like 75% of the playerlist is lurking because of it and I just want to play the damn game

[usesPython]

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

idk who said it feels like town!dragoneater from a previous game but I'll second the fact that this is just how he talks

[usesPython]

I actually feel like Snivy is itchy trigger finger towny(my new term), ready to butt heads when someone calls them scummy.

I definitely have been there lol.

Only reason I'm not sring snivy rn is cause I don't think scum go balls to the wall "highest poster has done nothing" and then "oh you have no reads" as a deliberate strategy cause it just destroys cred for 0 gain. Like I can see it being done thoughtlessly as either alignment but that's not a reason to drop an SR there

[usesPython]

Haven't played a game with this many people before. I have some initial thoughts written out but hopefully I can make a list of reads (with a top 7) tomorrow.

Game's big enough that you'll burn yourself out trying to get a read on literally everyone, just try to sort like 3-7 people that you can reasonably sort and then sheep them on reads they've sorted if you think they're town

[usesPython]

how many votes does rauth wagon even have?

Should be 4. Rat, Python, Drew, Aureal

[usesPython]

Aureal being consistently on our wavelength with scumreads and the explanations for them makes me think she's town

[usesPython]

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

Do not talk about ongoing games

[usesPython]

I don't get all the people saying it's town!dragon. Any links to read where he does this as town? In fact, 43 and 47 seems like a specific evolution of this trope to make him look towny. Not really a scumread but more of a at this point.

It's not "Dragon's talking in this game like town!Dragon normally does, therefore Dragon's town", it's "town!Dragon sounds LAMIST as hell normally so tone-reading him as scum off of that is a bad read"

[usesPython]

Also isn't this how it already works? Otherwise the

Players

must

submit 5-x names when submitting a Nightmare Runner vote, where x is the number of confirmed Runners. Once a player is confirmed, they cannot be removed from Running, except via death.

Make no sense

[usesPython]

Once a person is in a majority of Nightmare votes they get locked in as a nightmare participant yeah

[usesPython]

Coalition voting is hard

[usesPython]

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger

basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.

to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC invention

[usesPython]

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

I meant other than Wheme since I thought voting someone who hasn't made a single post was pretty counterproductive. Other reasoning looks fine

...Do you like not consider TR's as actual reads?

[usesPython]

Why the hell are we still talking about mech

1 billion votes on Rauth please

[usesPython]

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: abnegations proposal

mostly because it's 100% identical except for the order

[usesPython]

I can't see why anyone trs kkfc must less has them as top TR.

They vibe town, which I think is the wrong way of going about a KKFC read cause they're really good at doing that even as scum.

Ranger go check out Mini Normal 2303 when you have the time, it's a bit of a shitshow and we still haven't read the first 1k posts there but they definitely vibed town there as strong as they do here

[usesPython]

I can't see why anyone trs kkfc must less has them as top TR.

They vibe town, which I think is the wrong way of going about a KKFC read cause they're really good at doing that even as scum.

Ranger go check out Mini Normal 2303 when you have the time, it's a bit of a shitshow and we still haven't read the first 1k posts there but they definitely vibed town there as strong as they do here

How do they vibe town?

idk they just do

[usesPython]

Is... is this really Python, can someone go check and make sure their account didn't get hacked or something because this "stop talking about mech" and "idk they just vibe town" is really confusing me

How does this influence your read on us?

-A

[usesPython]

Merlyn's response to sheep is kind of nitpicky do you always vote in exact predictable fashion based on what you've written in previous posts, what if something changes or if you think about it differently later

I guess that's like, something you could say in response to any inconsistency ever. Is voting Abegnation over me scum indictative though ? Just, why?

I voted Abegneation because a bunch of votes, lots of fluff, no towniness, plus questioning why people that do townread them are townreading them sus! Plus, I guess I'm leaning Rauth is a townie who posts filler ? So might as well start there

Hot take: consistency is scum indicative

-A

[usesPython]

Titus' push on KKFC is not scum!Titus pushing town!KKFC

-A

[usesPython]

To be fair I kept thinking that bulletproof IC was too powerful to just... Be allowed like that without something to mitigate it's power. So I assumed alternative strategies would be required. Though it really isn't as powerful and setup breaking as I kept thinking about given we're in a Korina game. (There's almost certainly a recruit mechanic of some kind)

Are you still going on about how BP IC might not be that good? And also still talking about mech?

-A

[usesPython]

I meant this part

-A

Though it really isn't as powerful and setup breaking as I kept thinking about given we're in a Korina game. (There's almost certainly a recruit mechanic of some kind)

[usesPython]

Is... is this really Python, can someone go check and make sure their account didn't get hacked or something because this "stop talking about mech" and "idk they just vibe town" is really confusing me

How does this influence your read on us?

-A

Maybe it doesn't, just my confusion levels

Hmmm...

Anyways Merlyn's right that most of those posts weren't from Nameless or me (Also smh Merlyn I'm not as bad as Nameless) but I'm stanning the "stop talking about mech" since we've been going in circles on that front for the past 15 pages with nothing new and people just straight up aren't playing while that's going on

-A

[usesPython]

Flea and bianco need to be prodded I think

-A

[usesPython]

Anyways this wagon's getting stale

VOTE: kkfc

-A

[usesPython]

Am I getting voted for town vibes or b/c of Titus?

We're not voting you for giving off town vibes when you can do so as scum

-A

[usesPython]

Wait so why are you voting me then

It seemed like a good idea at the time?

-A

[usesPython]

There weren't any new votes for Drew between 438 and 560 so it can't be a triple voter either, this was straight up a day ability

UNVOTE: KKFC
VOTE: Drew

-A

[usesPython]

Also that makes the 5-X rule make way more sense

-A

[usesPython]

9 pages of figuring out how to give people Bulletproof Innocent Child inventions with the Normal Invention nightmare thingy. On the bright side the mech's pretty much over

Any update on the rest? Lol

BP IC inventions are still optimal and also can't be prevented or redirected

-A

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus

Don't even know if there's a point to trying to get a pure Nightmare with Drew in it

-A

[usesPython]

Oh my god Drew was literally had that ability last game lmao

-A

[usesPython]

Was anyone even TRing Drew before 560?

-A

[usesPython]

Oh my god Drew was literally had that ability last game lmao

-A

Seriously? Was he scum, did he use it on himself?

Actually, does anyone have a link to the first game? I think I'd like to take a look

He was town and used it on the Mentor (Third party Cult Leader but if the Mentor dies everyone they recruited also dies)

Weird Dreams Mafia I

-A

[usesPython]

@mod

- what happens if someone gets confirmed to run in the nightmare, but then we execute them during the day?

Once a player is confirmed, they cannot be removed from Running, except via death.

They don't get in the Nightmare

[usesPython]

Spoiler: Also this was how the last Nightmare Lock went in the other game

Oh my god, imaginalitys iso is bad I hate the TL read and the stated confidence. I like the talking with the bats post

Maybe imaginality is just really scummy as town? He was pretty convincing that one time he was scum in a game i was in. But I think he's suspicious here. Would need to see a read other than "TL is faking being townie!helpful" which he mentions in 3 or 4 of 7 posts

I voted Meg because I largely disagreed with almost every conclusion. I was thinking Ranger!Scum Enchant!Town, Drew!Town (obviously). Why is Porkens and Ranger your top townreads (above Kyoko who you state what i thought were better reasons for. Maybe respecting the scumrange but still idk.)



Also, I hate the wordy comment by Meg because it's true

Do you want to run the Nightmare?

Pork is probtown, MT is about as town as town can get.

TL I think maybe scum, Ranger I love for making me the towniest town that has ever towned.....but don't really get why tbh.

I bitch about getting strung up as town, but I get why someone not familiar with me will scum read me, so this continual town read of my by her.....is a bit odd to me

Meg, I can't really ever figure her out, hope she responds to my post above though.

Yeah I wanna be in the nightmare

UNVOTE:

@Meg

Dragon is proba bly like one of my most confident townreads and I havent even bothered to explain that shit to *myself*. i dont need to. i just let myself be blow n away by the towniness. Your elaboration abt kyoko makes sense and im not really suspicious of porkens now that i contextualized myself more



Imagine, i would like to request a status report of your read of TL. if possible. if thats still a thing

hmhmhmhmhmhmhmhmhm

I considered taking Kyoko out because I have no posts of her in recent memory but the Gimli/Kyoko exchange felt very tvt to me at the time plus i dont know if i have a team of seven yyet

HURT: Morning, Dragon, TemporalLich, Gimli, Drew, Kyoko, Porkens

I could actually take anyone out im not really confident on anything besides Dragon, Maybe middling confidence on tl/gimli/drew, then lowest on everyone else

Flea and Enchant both vaguely towny (we all have polarized thoroughly on Enchant and I dont really trust myself to go further than that) to my memory but not to the point of party membering. Maybe Meg.

I do think Drew is town. I disagree with his takes on TL and Dragon. It's like, I dunno, the thought process for the Dragon read feels.. cant put it to words, can't every time i try. Theyre thought processes i wouldnt personally have but ones i can buy him believing. Maybe it's a poor read. I'm definitely not able to figure it out right now. Later

Morning Tweet has been forcibly confirmed to Run The Nightmare tonight! VC to reflect this, and a normal VC later tonight.

Any additional votes cast on MT will not count, and any unvotes for MT will not count.

[usesPython]

and like in that game MT was pretty set to already be getting into the nightmare anyways going off votecounts and I'm not really seeing anyone here going "Yeah Drew's gigatown get him in there"

-A

[usesPython]

oh right, should have read the op.

I'm thinking we do an 8 person proposal and lim Drew so that we get a 7 person nightmare but I also don't know who to put as the 8th and kinda don't want Kirigiri in there right now, you got any suggestions there?

-A

[usesPython]

oh right, should have read the op.

I'm thinking we do an 8 person proposal and lim Drew so that we get a 7 person nightmare but I also don't know who to put as the 8th and kinda don't want Kirigiri in there right now, you got any suggestions there?

-A

i'm liking ranger recently. how do you feel about her?

She's existing? Not really feeling the vibes there but I can sheep you I guess

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Ranger

-A

[usesPython]

I also don't like this: a couple of folks including me were expressing doubt on Abnegation, who said she'd get some reads done for real this time. Then suddenly she started talking about the drew notice from the mod and now she's the co-chair of the nightmare proposals with python. It's an awfully effective way to get attention of you

Counterpoint: In your scenario if it's being done with the expectation to deflect attention onto Drew with the idea that it's a scum ability then it's also reasonable to assume that Drew gets limmed for the wombo combo of scummy + in nightmare when people want a pure nightmare + scum ability at which point him flipping green would make it really obvious that happened? idk I don't want to be paranoiaing onto strong townreads like this

[usesPython]

I was very null on Doctor Drew before 560. It's definitely doesn't very town for him to get added to the nightmare but also I am confused since he was at N-2 (heh) and it was super likely he was going to get into anyways?

4 of those votes were from the "everyone" voters, the people who had him in individually were: bianco (hasn't posted in 3 days), ranger, camelCasedSnivy, and Rautherdir. I wouldn't really consider that likely to get in

[usesPython]

Also still pretty skeptical of people saying they do or don't get townvibes from me. I've completed one game on this site.

You don't need meta to viberead someone? You just look at their posts and figure out how they make you feel

[usesPython]

You don't need meta to viberead someone? You just look at their posts and figure out how they make you feel

Seemed handwave-y and I am skeptical when several people comment on it and give completely different reads.

You think scum are more likely to townread or scumread you on vibes?

[usesPython]

So I'm supposed to not try to solve anything because something else could have happened, and not ever ask questions because the answer might be different than what I expect?

I acknowledge it's not an airtight case or anything, I point out the lurking possibility already, but I'm working with what I have here. And I do find it curious that you're already presuming Ranger would deny responsibility. Know something I don't?

Why would town!Ranger put Drew in the nightmare when she was also shading him?

[usesPython]

I think radical rat is town

Same, I'm just not vibing with 647

[usesPython]

That came out wrong I think, I don't like the post but it's probably town?

[usesPython]

Like it's that brainfart where you think someone's scum and that if you ask them straight up they'll admit to being scum for some reason

[usesPython]

The mafiascum website has not been letting me connect today, not sure if anyone else is having that issue.

Not sure what to think about Doctor Drew especially with them being in nightmare. I'm going to assume that they wouldn't use an ability to do that on themselves though, so. I'm wondering if scum has that power, targeted Drew, and then pushed Drew for it.... Though that also seems foolhardy.

We've also been having connection issues. Also for what it's worth Drew claims to have not done it

I can confirm I had nothing to do with it, at the very least.

[usesPython]

The mafiascum website has not been letting me connect today, not sure if anyone else is having that issue.

Not sure what to think about Doctor Drew especially with them being in nightmare. I'm going to assume that they wouldn't use an ability to do that on themselves though, so. I'm wondering if scum has that power, targeted Drew, and then pushed Drew for it.... Though that also seems foolhardy.

Had that exact same issue

HEAL: previous proposal

I'm probably not gonna get into the nightmare so

HURT: Ranger

? You're literally in the proposal you're voting for (Also that'd be an 11 person Nightmare which at that point no shot it's pure and we might as well be putting everyone in)

[usesPython]

.... I really shouldn't expect any role from the previous game to be perfectly preserved though, so for example it might be part of a JOAT or such. In which case town with that power probably shouldn't claim yet.

They wouldn't need to claim the JOAT then? Last game it was 2-shot so literally all they'd have to do is claim they did this and they'd probably be a low priority target PR wise

[usesPython]

The scene of the crime is mafiascum.net

If they posted in the thread, during the estimated time the crime was committed, they were online at the time.

There's not an easy way of knowing who was online and didn't post, so it isn't an exhaustive list, but it's a starting point. Of those that we knew were there, Ranger is the most likely, and while her evasiveness isn't on its own proof of anything, the suspicion is strong enough that I don't want her in the Nightmare because of it.

Why would scum!Ranger be evasive instead of just saying she didn't do it when thread consensus seemed to be that it was scum doing it?

[usesPython]

Because Ranger's smart enough to know that refusing to answer is +Town, and that if she Did do it and gets caught later after a hard denial it'll be even more difficult to talk her way out of it than it already is.

I'm giving her space because of it, but I don't trust her enough right now to want her in the Nightmare, especially when we already have the numbers without her.

If she's smart enough to know it's +Town to refuse to answer as scum then she's also smart enough to know it's +Town to refuse to answer as town?? Because it's a pro town action?? And like if we get information that she did it we should probably lim her anyways and this sort of non-denial still wouldn't let her talk her way out of it??

[usesPython]

She could definitely be doing it as Town, yeah. I'm not saying it's impossible. Notably I'm not voting her over it. I just don't trust her right now.

My point is that if she'd do the same thing regardless of alignment I don't see how you'd read anything AI from it

[usesPython]

I think the methodology is flawed and that if we're looking to be accurate on who did it we should be looking at people who normally post in that time period but didn't (Especially if they then posted a few hours later)

[usesPython]

I also think talking about this during the day like this is pretty unproductive and that either we'll get information from night abilities and can do stuff then or we don't and it's something to deal with when the number of players has been narrowed down enough through lims/ICs to accurately predict who did it

[usesPython]

So Doctor Drew, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus? Also

HEAL: Doctor Drew, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus

It's Python's proposal, minus Ranger.

I officially no longer want to eliminate Drew (today), but Ranger is a big enough question mark for me that if we ARE trying to make a pure Nightmare, I don't want her in it yet.

Please use the hurt tags to submit a proposal or to vote for an already existing one. Please use the heal tags to unvote a proposal, or to withdraw your proposal.

You're not actually voting for a proposal there

[usesPython]

UNVOTE: Drew

[usesPython]

HURT: Rats proposal

[usesPython]

what's the tl;dr reason for not putting everyone

7 person PT to co-ordinate night actions

[usesPython]

7 person PT to co-ordinate night actions

Also there was some worry about scum being able to counter stuff if they knew what's happening but given that the BP IC invention can't be blocked/redirected I don't think that's a problem

[usesPython]

.... wait do kills happen before invention awards.

Is this really a question you should be asking in the main thread? Like we also have a few mech questions on how exactly BP IC inventions work but you don't see us asking that where scum can see

VOTE: Rautherdir

[usesPython]

And no, if NAR is being followed then kills happen after the invention is handed out

[usesPython]

We should get more votes on Rauth

[usesPython]

Literally all you had to do was PM Korina about it. Even in the scenario where the kill happens before the invention the sheer fact that the kill happened at all tells you there's someone good at mech on the scum side and rules out possible team compositions

Unlimited votes on Rauth please

[usesPython]

Literally all you had to do was PM Korina about it. Even in the scenario where the kill happens before the invention the sheer fact that the kill happened at all tells you there's someone good at mech on the scum side and rules out possible team compositions

Unlimited votes on Rauth please

And personally I'm of the opinion doing this doesn't help town as a whole. Scum should do this because they want to find flaws that town doesn't.

Even if BP didn't work we'd still be handing out BP IC inventions anyways?? Literally all asking this question does is help scum

[usesPython]

Like we'd trade one (1) suboptimal Invention (BP IC instead of Activated IC) to get information on the scum team

[usesPython]

That is actually the conclusion that I just came to as well.

Which conclusion?

[usesPython]

I'm confused why people think scum!rauthe would do whatever rauthe did to make himself look scummy

The original vote was like 50% frustration, it became more serious when he tried to justify it instead of going "oh damn u rite"

[usesPython]

Ranger you better not put Merlyn, Aureal, and Artichoke above me.

No promises.
I

Drew

what I want to.

this is a very weird post. At first I was hesitant to mention this here in my skim as it felt like a soft. but it doesn't look like any soft at all. it feels like you're hinting something at drew like how a traitor would - maybe?
or am I the only one not getting what you mean with the way you phrased this?

scum meter 0.5

It's a pun with Doctor Drew's name:

I do what I want to -> I Drew what I want to

[usesPython]

but it feels so out of place. or am I the only one who felt like that?

Wait now I'm seeing it too

Doctor

Ranger here. Expect a Win.

This somehow didn't go through earlier;

VOTE: Drews-a-licious

There's many things I'll

Drew

. Voting a town-him not among them.

Well, you could always check. I think it would be a waste of an ability, but it can be done

Fortunately, nothing about Normal roles prevents a Miller from being an IC, so if IC reveals are accurate, then a Miller can still be cleared.

Ranger you better not put Merlyn, Aureal, and Artichoke above me.

No promises.
I

Drew

what I want to.

{usesPython}
{Abnegation}
{Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew}
{Aureal}
{Merlyn}
{camelCasedSnivy, Radical Rat}
{Titus, biancospino}
{DragonEater70}

Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely

Hey, I

Drew

what I want to.
STD asked, and I wanted to honor his request!

[usesPython]

Why did you italicize this? i saved this as a crumb

To emphasize the pun.

Whatever I

Drew

, I'd

Drew

it again. Bad puns included.

It's literally the only persons name she's punned all game

[usesPython]

It's literally the only persons name she's punned all game

Yes, I went into this game deciding to make Doctor Drew puns. Just 'cuz.

Can't believe you didn't pun our name, this is so sad

[usesPython]

Thinking about it,

{usesPython}
{Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub}
{Radical Rat}
{Rautherdir}
{Doctor Drew}
{Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{Save The Dragons}
{Flea The Magician}
{Titus}
{Random Nurse}
{WhemeStar}
{Aureal}
{Merlyn}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{DragonEater70}

How confident are you on KKFC? He's pretty nullish for me

[usesPython]

then would you mind elaborating on this "reason" you have for scum reading me or making up something fast about it in your next post? cause you only have a limited time to convince me this interaction is not fake af and is just because you're scum, and essentially force me to tunnel you.

Ranger's town here

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Ranger, Abnegation, Radical Rat, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal

We can be convinced to drop KKFC and Aureal but the rest I want in right now

[usesPython]

can you elaborate on wheme and rauth reads you had here like 1 sentence about each?

uhhh Wheme confirmed and was available to post but wasn't posting so that was sus and Rauth I'm pretty sure was for similar reasons as Radical Rat but I'd need to double check cause I don't actually remember

[usesPython]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

[usesPython]

If I'm wrong (about maybe being wrong I guess?) I would very much like to know why

Go read page 34 and then re-ISO her, she's defo town

---

Kirigiri and Rauth are the two people we're willing to wheel and deal to get a lim through, rest are either in our townbin or null

[usesPython]

rest are either in our townbin or null

or scumleans but not strong enough to hard push rn

[usesPython]

case rauth. you just above said you forgot why you were scumreading rauth, so you have new reasons for it?

I said I forgot why we were scumreading him 5 days ago, not that we haven't been scumreading him for a while. And nah, other people have cased him enough that I'd just be repeating their points at this point; Go read RR's ISO if you want a case.

[usesPython]

Why the hell are we still talking about mech

1 billion votes on Rauth please

But this post wasn't about mech. scum meter 0.1

For what it's worth I think there's a chance at least one scum is pushing me, I'm just trying to figure out why. DragonEater I don't think is that though, and I like a lot of what else they're posting. Drew I'm going to agree with Ranger on and keep them as town... Python and Radical Rat I think were decent enough though the latter should probably be resolved one way or another at some point due to their claim.

THOUGH. I believe we can actually do that without flipping them... by using Inquiry to ask if Radical Rat would investigate as an alignment they are not. (Doesn't actually confirm alignment on it's own since both scum and town can have roles that can do this.)

That leaves... Aureal and Abnegation... Abnegation I'm... not sure about... I don't see much in the way that leans me town or scum from them. Aureal is just... not present mostly? Hmm. Let me look elsewhere as well, but.

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Ranger, Abnegation, Radical Rat, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal

We can be convinced to drop KKFC and Aureal but the rest I want in right now

What is the heal/hurt thing you're doing?

Nightmare Redux

Once again, the Nightmare returns, this time as The Nightmare Redux. Players will once again be voting on Inventions to award someone else in the game, but there's some more interesting options, and a more dynamic selection of player pool. The minimum amount of players needed for The Nightmare Redux to be available is 7. If the game drops below 7 players, The Nightmare Redux will cease to be available.

Additionally, in contrast from the first go-around, the amount of players allowed to participate is dynamic.

A minimum of five players are required to run The Nightmare Redux each night, while it is available,

but the maximum number of players allowed to participate is the number of players

still alive

. There is a whole list of actions available for the Runners to vote on.

If there is no ability that can be awarded with the number of Runners, the Nightmare will occur, but players will be unable to award any ability.

Actions requiring Five Players or more:

~

Inquiry

: Runners will vote on one question to ask the moderator about another player's role, excluding anything alignment specific. The answer to this question will be posted at day-start. The full exceptions to this is listed at the bottom.
~

Double Vote

: Runners will vote on one player to award a double-vote to. This double-vote will be publicly revealed.
~

Vigilante

: Runners will vote one player to kill tonight. This player will not flip their Role PM publicly, and it will instead be posted in the Nightmare PT should it be successful. Their alignment will still be revealed.

Actions Requiring Seven Players or more

:
~

Normal Invention

: Runners will vote on a Normal invention to award to another player. Inventions can have one modifier, and one action, but must fit into the Normal guidelines. If I have to message Implosion about it and ask, it's not normal. The only restriction to this ability is players

cannot

award any action that appears within this list.
~

Friendly Neighbor

: Runners will vote on one player to award a 1-Shot Friendly Neighbor invention to. This ability will fail to be awarded to a player who is not aligned with

The Good Dreams

, and this player will

not

be informed of this happening.
~

Cop

: Runners will vote on one player to award a 1-Shot Cop invention to. Results are given as "Horrible Dream" or "Not A Horrible Dream."

Actions Requiring Nine Players or more

:
~

Housing

: The Nightmare PT will remain open at the end of the night, and will function as a Neighborhood for the rest of the game.
~

Roleblock

: Runners will vote on one player to award a 1-Shot Roleblock invention to.
~

Tree Stumps

: The Runners will vote on one player in the Dead PT to become a Tree Stump, or one living player to become a Tree Stump upon their death.

Spoiler: Exceptions to Inquiry

All alignment specific questions are prohibited, which include such questions as "Is X (alignment)", "Is X (role specific to one faction)?", "Is X aligned with Y?", or "Can X win with Y?". A notable inclusion to this list is the question: "Can this player change the alignment of another?" This list is not fully cohesive, and will never be fully cohesive. In the event I reject your question, I will substitute it with the

best

alternative I can think of.

Addendum added in the review of this game: "What is the name of X's alignment" is specifically banned too, and this ability is not limited to yes/no questions, but you'll likely get the best results out of yes/no questions.

Nightmare Voting

This has been changed in favor of Coalition styled voting. Players

must

submit 5-x names when submitting a Nightmare Runner vote, where x is the number of confirmed Runners. Other players may vote another’s player’s proposal or submit their own proposal, following the above rules. Once a player is confirmed, they cannot be removed from Running, except via death.

Please use the hurt tags to submit a proposal or to vote for an already existing one. Please use the heal tags to unvote a proposal, or to withdraw your proposal.

tl;dr use Hurt tags to make a proposal on who to bring into the nightmare tonight. Drew's automatically in every proposal due to a day ability and ideally we should have 7 people in it so that we can hand out a Bulletproof Innocent Child invention with the Normal Invention action

[usesPython]

I just realized python is a hydra. That changes some stuff in my head

We're plural, not sure if that counts as a hydra exactly?

Am I getting voted for town vibes or b/c of Titus?

We're not voting you for giving off town vibes when you can do so as scum

-A

This post makes no sense. he asked are you voting me for giving good vibes and you said you're not? why would you consider ever voting someone for good vibes. wont it be NAI at worst if you're worried of their play?

Because that was a vote to get reactions instead of a vote to get them limmed

[usesPython]

Like last game scum!KKFC flew under the radar with pretty much 0 pressure on him so we wanted to see what would happen if there's votes on him

[usesPython]

and for people who cant follow that line of thinking: in ranger mind, being questioned for signaling drew name in early game = being questioned for being responsible to force drew in nightmare

that is a conscious that equates those two jobs means it was her doing.

Why is this non-Town indicative?

[usesPython]

Ranger is definitely responsible for drew being in nightmare and is definitely without day chat with drew - meaning ranger is probably having a lawyer like interaction with drew.

I don't want to have ranger in a nightmare party.

lol. If you think Ranger is a Drew Lawyer then either Drew is scum/3p and the Nightmare's already tainted or Drew is Town and it's optimal to bring Ranger in in that worldview

[usesPython]

or Drew is Town and it's optimal to bring Ranger in in that worldview

explain. I don't get it

Wait I just realised Lawyer does something different than what I was thinking, are we talking about a Savior?

[usesPython]

Yeah so if Ranger is a Town Drew Savior then her win condition is advanced by having all the scum dead as fast as possible, which means she'd be a pro-town 3p and should be in the Nightmare. And if Drew

isn't

town then having her in the Nightmare doesn't matter because it's already tainted from Drew

[usesPython]

it also suggests drew and ranger don't have a chat if scum. so why give them another?

The chat doesn't matter because it gets locked after the night is over and she can't be open while the nightmare is open because there's enough town to call her out by d2

[usesPython]

Yeah. Overwhelmed by the mechanics in this game.

I'll be starting from this point onwards.

I think the only actually relevant pieces of mech are that:

• it's optimal to use the nightmare to hand out Bulletproof Innocent Child inventions as a Normal Invention action (Needs 7 people in the nightmare)
  
• the BP IC inventions can't be blocked or redirected in any way
  
• Drew has been forcibly placed into the Nightmare through a day ability
  
• it'd be nice if we could get a high confidence full town nightmare to co-ordinate night actions

[usesPython]

oh and also that if non-Town get awarded the invention then it just fails (Since IC is only normal for Town) and that nightkills go through after the invention gets handed out so scum can't kill them when they know in advance who's getting it

[usesPython]

oh and also that if non-Town get awarded the

IC

invention then it just fails

EBWOP

[usesPython]

VOTE: Rautherdir

My be a policy but a wagon is goof.

Tag fix
- Kori

Get well soon

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote

[usesPython]

Huh. I don't remember anything being said about nar so I must not have been paying even less attention than I thought.

On another note though, I think Kyoko is definitely onto something with Ranger and still haven't figured out why Python is after Kyoko now, I think she's town.

Seemed pretty obvious to us that Ranger was softing Masons with Drew, guess we were wrong though

[usesPython]

... Doesn't feel like town or scum would logically suggest 3p wouldn't it. That... would make sense.

If Kyoko thinks it's signalling then bring it to the logical conclusion (assume Drew is town for this):

• town!Kyoko doesn't know Drews alignment so it could be traitor signaling scum or 3p signaling their target
  
• scum!Kyoko knows Drew isn't scum so therefore it can't be traitor signaling scum -> must be 3p signaling their target

it's TMI

[usesPython]

Hmm actually on a second read through there was talk about it being traitor!Ranger for like 20 minutes

[usesPython]

Huh. I don't remember anything being said about nar so I must not have been paying even less attention than I thought.

On another note though, I think Kyoko is definitely onto something with Ranger and still haven't figured out why Python is after Kyoko now, I think she's town.

Seemed pretty obvious to us that Ranger was softing Masons with Drew, guess we were wrong though

To clarify, we figured it out like 2 minutes after posting 848

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

Except that you don't.

You and Alianna had a chat in your PT to make sure she could get post 1000?

He's done the split posting in Mini Normal 2303, I think you're reaching here

Spoiler: Example

Cook, you should definitely investigate one of the people who said "cOoK iS tRuEcLaImInG aS sCuM".

Assuming you are town, those are likely to contain the types of people who want a town rolecop dead, i.e. scum PR's.

If Cook lives today are these results even going to be informative/truthful on Day 2? I think they would only matter if another town investigative role could corroborate things right?

I’m staying here. If it gets me killed then so be it, I’ve always said I don’t need to be alive for town to win.

... Do we need an Odd Night Neapolitan to win?

-A

[usesPython]

That is defeinitly not mason. and it was so obvious that it isn't so I'm really confused how that thought even came to you

How? Ranger only ever punning Drews name + Rat's case on why Ranger probably put Drew in the nightmare + Rangers 782 made it seem like a Mason Nightmare Decider

-A

[usesPython]

Also curious to know why you didn't ask rat that either given that 1006 exists

-A

[usesPython]

I think it means common parlance.

KK, are you aware I am a lawyer?

there are many different variations/naming of the role but what I have in mind is closer to savior you linked. by lawyer I mean someone who wins if their client wins. (not neccessirly loosing if the target gets voted out). they don't know their client role but they don't care about town win. naturally they will do whatever they can to signal to their target they are with them, and will use their boost skills if they have any to help them.

basically the attidue I see from ranger here.

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:

[usesPython]

My strong gut scumread hasn't magically vanished, and nobody else I want wagoned has momentum.

Rauth wagon's getting stale. I'll sheep, who do you want wagoned rn?

-A

[usesPython]

Also can you update your nightmare vote to not include people you're actively scumreading?

-A

[usesPython]

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

[usesPython]

Can we just IC Ranger/Kyoko I'm feeling my will to play mafia drain with every wall that gets posted

-A

[usesPython]

I want a 1v1 with ranger.

Wish granted

VOTE: Kyoko

-A

[usesPython]

Those two might not a mechanical nerd and a crazy setup designer and game mod like me who saw countless games from above perspective.

Oh cool you're bringing us into this. If you wanna talk about this from a setup spec perspective then we're gonna be able to pull up 20x the games with masons in them compared to Traitor/Lawyer, especially when we can already assume the game's Cultiball from the last game + the rules post. None of us see a reason for there to be a Traitor in this setup from both a historic and a theoretical perspective assuming it's similar to the last Weird Dreams Mafia

-A

[usesPython]

wouldn't you call your own reads too safe and shallow

Considering I've objective proof people copied my reads after I made them? Nah.

how is other sheeping your read make your read not shallow? what?

Because either everyone sheeping is scum or there's Town that saw the reads and went "Yeah that's a good point, kill em"

-A

[usesPython]

or "Yeah that's a good point, townbin em"

-A

[usesPython]

Those two might not a mechanical nerd and a crazy setup designer and game mod like me who saw countless games from above perspective.

Oh cool you're bringing us into this. If you wanna talk about this from a setup spec perspective then we're gonna be able to pull up 20x the games with masons in them compared to Traitor/Lawyer, especially when we can already assume the game's Cultiball from the last game + the rules post. None of us see a reason for there to be a Traitor in this setup from both a historic and a theoretical perspective assuming it's similar to the last Weird Dreams Mafia

-A

comparing a game to other games to figure out the setup is the most stupid approach one can do to do any kind of setup spec.

what I'm doing is reading this game and this game only and trying to understand the events in this game based on my knowledge about whatever is possible to happen which is a completely different and actually a practical approach.

regardless this was clearly not a mason soft and I still cant see how people saw that initially. again that might be cause I read the game in a different manner than you all with the sudden catch up and having everything in my mind all at once.

lol ok. You've somehow dropped below Rauth for us, that's pretty impressive D1

-A

[usesPython]

I would prefer a smaller set of players but more is... Fine. We could potentially do housing before we lose too many of this group but confirming someone+bulletproof probably better? Not sure, housing has good long term benefits and if a certain role still exists might even end up as a large pseudo-masonry at some point. (I mean except recruiting probably a thing so... Yeah.)

Oh look it's happening again

-A

[usesPython]

Ironically, this post appears to be a lot of words to make a nothingness point.

What sort of 'evidence' are people supposed to have here other than the words people have written?

What do you mean by this?

[usesPython]

Why would a mason put in so much effort to 'sort' their partner who wasn't in any sort of trouble?

Where does this happen? Ranger spent the first like 1k posts this game just providing reads lists with little explanation

[usesPython]

Like we can believe Ranger spent time sorting Drew out of the public eye but why did

you

think she was sorting him before it was explained?

[usesPython]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

Rauth wagon's getting stale. I'll sheep, who do you want wagoned rn?

Honestly, any of:

Those I'd vote:
{Save The Dragons}
{Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse}
{Titus}
{WhemeStar}
{Aureal}
{Merlyn}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{DragonEater70}

I'll say of them, only {Merlyn, Kyoko Kirigiri, DragonEater70} are strong scumreads.

Aureal's largely feeling something's off, yet not strongly. WhemeStar's not looking town. Random Nurse has given nothing in a potentially suspect way. Flea's limited content hasn't been good, yet Flea's currently absent. STD's null. Titus, need to read her most recent content, her placement may change.

[usesPython]

I initially had a gut townread on him.
I then thought his contributions were closer to his scumgame.
Then, I saw signs of his towngame.
Now, I also believe he's been spewed town (or at least not groupscum) by those I think likely scum.
I maintain it's possible he's 3p, because of the potential red flags I saw. So any alignment flip from him wouldn't surprise me. Town, scum, 3p, all possible. Yet with what I have, I believe he's not scum. He's demonstrating strong signs of being town, and if I had to guess I would say town. Even if 3p, on D1 3p aren't a focus, so as long as he's not groupscum, he's to be treated as town because he's either town or 3p and there's a fairly high chance he's just town.

This is all fairly clear to every player in the game--except apparently, you.

@_@

Whatever you are supposedly trying to say here is not clear to me at all. Don't claim to speak for me.

What don't you get?

• If you're looking for town you look for signs of towniness.
  
• If you're looking for 3p you look for signs of unaligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)
  
• If you're looking for groupscum you look for signs of aligned scumminess (which D1 will involve pre-flip associatives if you're not groupscum)

Ranger thinks Drew had some towniness and some scumminess and also has the people she's scumreading be pushing Drew both on and off wagon which would point to Drew being either 3p or Town

[usesPython]

Didn't realise you were in the game twice. My bad.

Whoops, we altslipped :p

[usesPython]

I mean what I said. It's a lot of words (in a post complaining about someone using a lot of words) to make the point "I'm town therefore pushing me is bad and suspicious."

You're kinda missing the point being made which is that regardless of Rangers alignment (scum/traitor/3p/town) the push on Ranger instead of pushing Drew/not pushing anyone makes no sense from town!Kirigiri's POV. The town scenario is there for completeness sake

[usesPython]

I am only going to read tke Kyoko/Ranger thing if I have to, probably on D2. Right now I don't really think there's a way to tell who's town or not from the argument.

It's pretty simple: Ranger town, Kirigiri sussy baka

[usesPython]

I am only going to read tke Kyoko/Ranger thing if I have to, probably on D2. Right now I don't really think there's a way to tell who's town or not from the argument.

It's pretty simple: Ranger town, Kirigiri sussy baka

Here me out.

Merlyn doesn't want to be forced to fake a read?

Good point, Merlyn we're expecting a 500 word essay on why Ranger or Kirigiri is scum with MLA formatting.

[usesPython]

I am only going to read tke Kyoko/Ranger thing if I have to, probably on D2. Right now I don't really think there's a way to tell who's town or not from the argument.

It's pretty simple: Ranger town, Kirigiri sussy baka

Is the crux of your assessment of this situation just that you think Kyoko should push Drew instead of Ranger if she thinks it's a traitor relationship, because Drew is already confirmed for the nightmare?

No because if Ranger is confirmed a traitor signalling to Drew then Drew would be scum and you'd flip him first because Drew would be scum

[usesPython]

Like run through the logic:

If Ranger is Scum then she's not signalling

If Ranger is Traitor then Drew is Scum (in which case flip Drew)

If Ranger is Lawyer/Savior then sort Drew and flip Drew if necessary

If Ranger is Town then there's no reason to push Ranger

[usesPython]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how a traitor works?? A Mafia traitor is still Mafia and needs to be eliminated for town to win, right??

No actually

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

• is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead

[usesPython]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how a traitor works?? A Mafia traitor is still Mafia and needs to be eliminated for town to win, right??

And also misses the point that it's not 100% confirmed that Ranger is Traitor so it's still optimal to sort Drew instead (since if Drew's hard town you can assume it's not traitor signalling scum and the initial reason for the push falls apart)

[usesPython]

Sorry, that permit just lets

Ron

do what he wants, you're still on the hook

[usesPython]

This is not a normal game though. The wiki seems to indicate no certainty whether a traitor would continue on or not if they were the lone scum remaining. So I can readily believe that a townie would be fine going after a scummy possible traitor first.

No because if you actually think Ranger is a Traitor signaling scum!Drew you flip Drew first because on the off chance that Drew flips green you no longer have a reason to flip Ranger

[usesPython]

What is your read on drew?

Probably town

[usesPython]

If that was your ONLY reason. If you think Ranger is just scummy in addition to the possible traitor signalling (and that's where I am), Drew being green isn't really that helpful for sorting Ranger.

What do you think is scummy about Ranger outside the traitor signalling thing?

[usesPython]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Is this a gamestate read or are you also independently scumreading Drew?

[usesPython]

... I'm now realizing I forgot to actually change my vote. This has probably caused confusion.

HURT: Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus, Save the Dragons

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Is this a gamestate read or are you also independently scumreading Drew?

Mostly gamestate, but I'm certainly not Townreading Drew.

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

[usesPython]

A little unclear to me why Drew is making multiple posts when a single one would suffice. Possible signaling?

Either way, I scumread him for this!

Seriously?

[usesPython]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how a traitor works?? A Mafia traitor is still Mafia and needs to be eliminated for town to win, right??

No actually

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

• is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead

(Unless they're a Lazy Traitor)

Oh my fucking god why are you still doing this

[usesPython]

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

You thought that most recent push was *town*? It seemed pretty NAI to me, with it being total bullshit

town!Drew's a fellow Pepe Silvia enjoyer

[usesPython]

kinda wanna IC Rauth instead of wagoning them

[usesPython]

town!Drew's a fellow Pepe Silvia enjoyer

I would be excited if I knew who that was.

Barney didn't tell you? Gonna need to dock his pay, what a slacker

[usesPython]

usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town?

Why is it confusing for us to side with the person getting shitpushed for the past 15 pages?

[usesPython]

Abdeg and Katy are prob scum

Wait what's the Abdeg case?

[usesPython]

unless you're talking about the pagetop in which case nvm

[usesPython]

the stuff I see every time I check the thread makes me think fully reading the last 15 pages isnt worth it

It's the same 3 arguments repeated for 15 pages so yeah you're probably right

[usesPython]

VOTE: merlyn

do worse (also how many votes on Merlyn rn?)

[usesPython]

like let's focus in on aureal for fun. aureal has done nothing wolfy to me and I could totally see her as town. but like, I know she's physically capable of being insanely towny. the second she subbed into the last game I played with her, she immediately made posts that were like wow that's some of the most pure in-depth stuff ive read. so the fact that she hasn't done that here is like slightly >rand wolf by poe, even if that's an unfair expectation. she also apparently hasn't wolfed before which makes it feel valid to be like "she's wolf struggling to get into the game!” is my best guess rn. I dont rly support her inclusion in the current proposal altho I havent seen why abnegation townreads her

Auriel was scum with us in Fire and Ice

[usesPython]

I don't think we can get a consensus pure nightmare without compromises anymore just due to the fact that we had an anti-mind meld with Aureal and don't tr her hard enough to put her in the Nightmare.

[usesPython]

HURT: Ranger

[usesPython]

StD's ISO is just a big nothingburger, what about sheep?

[usesPython]

StD's ISO being a big nothingburger is how you know he's Town.

I thought he did that regardless of alignment?

We can also do snivy