Open 536: Faith Plus One Game Over! Mafia Win!

[XScorpion]

obvious bus
VOTE: scarlet yoshi

[XScorpion]

Taylor, are you new to mafia? What's the story?

[XScorpion]

Is that relevant?

I certainly think it is not.

I disagree.
VOTE: Taylor

Dodging a question that is irrelevant to the game is worthy of a vote, willwang? Would you say that your experience playing mafia is relevant to your alignment?

No, but knowing your experience with the game helps the town to determine whether how you play is due to your experience (or lack thereof) as a player or due to your alignment. What pro-town reasoning is there for hiding your familiarity with the game?

[XScorpion]

Who are you?

[XScorpion]

What pro-town reasoning is there for hiding your familiarity with the game?

[XScorpion]

I don't care that you are a hydra. You have still not answered my question.
When I play against newbies, at least I know they are newbies and I can attribute their behavior to that. Even if someone is using an alt, they still can tell me how long they've been playing mafia for.
Why are you so intent on dodging this question? Why is it such a big deal that you don't want to say how familiar you are with mafia? Why do you want to hide your identity so much? Honestly I don't think I would even play significantly differently if I knew who you were (because in all likelihood I don't even know you), but I don't see what the fuss is about.

[XScorpion]

I sense that Taylor is not a courteous hydra.

Not that it is relevant to their alignment

(I know Taylor is worried about town thinking that).

[XScorpion]

can't you just let me hope...?

anyway, you're scum VOTE: XScorpion

No, there is no hope for you.

Why are you so intent on dodging this question? Why is it such a big deal that you don't want to say how familiar you are with mafia? Why do you want to hide your identity so much? Honestly I don't think I would even play significantly differently if I knew who you were (because in all likelihood I don't even know you), but I don't see what the fuss is about.

You're the one making a fuss. When I say I think it's irrelevant, and I don't wish to disclose the heads, and basically ask you to use your own wits to determine my alignment, then you should respect that. The heads will be anonymous because this is a learning project for me to get better at mafia. Arguing about it and trying to get me to reveal the heads is just rude and a waste of time. If you wouldn't play significantly differently, than what is the big deal?

If it will make you focus on the game and not whether I'm a newbie or not, I have been on the site almost a year. I don't know how long the other head has been, but longer than me.

p-edit: mollie I'll tell you when I'm ready.

Alright, I'll leave it up to the rest of the town if they care about who you are. They are more likely to know you anyway.

(I know Taylor is worried about town thinking that).

Ew. You just "stressed" it's not alignment indicative and then throw this out there. Pretty blatant attempt to cast suspicion with something that is not suspicious.

You think what I said is an attempt to make you look suspicious? Is it impossible for town to worry about what the rest of town thinks?

[XScorpion]

Are there more hydras these days, or is it just me? I feel like back when I used to play, it was a much rarer thing.

[XScorpion]

You were already voting me. Pay attention please.

[XScorpion]

Alright, now if you're scum just keep being sloppy and it's all good
If you're town then start paying attention; there are two of you so you had better be at least twice as smart as me.

[XScorpion]

Let me rephrase then:
if you are scum, don't let your partner talk too much
if you are town, try not to do anything your partner wouldn't do please and thank you ^_^

[XScorpion]

Oh that reminds me, in future when it isn't RVS please don't make votes unless both of you agree. It's confusing enough that there are two of you and I will not approve of nonsense like 'oh sorry I voted for you yesterday but I didn't consult my partner and he told me I was wrong herp derp let me just vote hop over here'.

Well he caught you before I did, but we seem to be on the same page, so you shouldn't worry too much.

Caught what now?

[XScorpion]

Let's wait and see what mistake you make then.

[XScorpion]

No problem. I found a new wagon I like anyway.
VOTE: pecanpie

[XScorpion]

There are at least two hydras
helium-3 is pirate mollie and antihero
Taylor is ____ and ____

[XScorpion]

The population of the town gathers around as speculation flies of the true identity of one of their players. But yet inside everyone is trying to find who they are and what they believe. For an onlooker this suggested violence may seem evil. Until they understand that there is a Fear within everyone they could be the next to die.

This is a lie. I am not afraid. Mod is lying and therefore scum. Anyone want to lynch him w/ me?

[XScorpion]

2 unless someone is hiding

[XScorpion]

Oh god can you imagine if the scumteam is all 3 hydras?

@XScorpion & phokdapolees

What's to like?

Your reasoning sucks and I think it's scummy.

[XScorpion]

Oh god can you imagine if the scumteam is all 3 hydras?

@XScorpion & phokdapolees

What's to like?

Your reasoning sucks and I think it's scummy.

To clarify, the reasoning sucks, and your vote is scummy.

[XScorpion]

I guess I did.
"It's my first vote" is not an excuse for opportunism.

[XScorpion]

oh mollie why are you so nice to me always

[XScorpion]

Not this game no

[XScorpion]

I haven't been scum for years ha ha ha

[XScorpion]

oh wait thats wrong, i was scum with antihero

[XScorpion]

MM I feel the delicious OMGUS. Can you feel it?

[XScorpion]

Keep em coming I don't have nearly enough on my wagon yet for this to be any fun.

[XScorpion]

Is that what I'm doing?

[XScorpion]

VOTE: XScorpion.
I am aware of the dissonance. We'll be talking it out. XScorpion is more scum than Pecan to me.

This is both of you voting right? Not just one head? I want to be sure.

[XScorpion]

Shos, you're learning. I'm so proud of you. GG should be ashamed.

[XScorpion]

eh, anyone has anything to say about the setup maybe?

I considered but decided that discussion of the setup is not helpful at this stage of the game and it is more productive to use this time scum hunting and not speculating.

[XScorpion]

Well this Day just got easy.

VOTE: Taylor

The wording of this post seems to contradict your first paragraph, Paschendale.

[XScorpion]

Nobody said anything about a quicklynch. Ever. Pecan is literally calling for a policy lynch because he doesnt like that we are anonymous. Not because he thinks we are scum.

Does that make it better?

[XScorpion]

Let me rephrase:
Is it better that he's calling for a PL of you than a quicklynch?

[XScorpion]

Blueberry used the word quicklynch but otherwise yes I agree completely.

[XScorpion]

None of this should be construed as defense of Pecan

(though votes on him are really bad at the moment)

, but I have to ask what's with all the misreps and bad assumptions? Why not make a case based on what Pecan actually said rather than obvious misreps? What do you have to Hide?

Not solely.

[XScorpion]

With respect to Blueberry sure.
But I am not voting pecan because he proposed a quicklynch. I am voting pecan because he voted for a policy lynch that, being 'easy', meant he wouldn't have to pretend to scumhunt.

[XScorpion]

You are correct that the reaction of my partner was overblown.

Can you at least sign your messages as Head A or Head B or something? Because I swear if this is just the beginning of more nonsense then I'll eat my own words and actually policy lynch you just for being a nuisance.

[XScorpion]

Then stop posting until you have. I am already frustrated at you for being uncooperative since the beginning of the game, and I am at the edge of my patience about this hydra chaos. The next time there is a discontinuity between the two heads I'm just going to lynch you.

[XScorpion]

You are correct that the reaction of my partner was overblown. But you have my word that it is null, coming from someone who was eager to play and who is expecting to learn. That is the only defense I can offer about it.

The problem with this 'defense' is that there is no actual way for anyone to tell which head is which. For all we know, the reaction and this defense are both from the same head.
All this thinking of different heads and different personalities is annoying and frustrating and I don't want it anymore. No more please.

[XScorpion]

I'm starting to understand why Albert B. Rampage didn't want to be in this game if there are hydras. I'm probably going to take the same viewpoint in the future unless there is no more hydra bullshit in this game. Keep your stories straight and I'm just done if I see a SINGLE more instance of 'oh it wasn't me it was my partner'.

[XScorpion]

Additionally, we will be cooperative with people who deserve it.

If you don't think I DESERVE to be cooperated with just tell me and I can lynch you right the fuck now.

[XScorpion]

Ok fuck you then.
VOTE: taylor.

[XScorpion]

I don't give a shit what you think.

[XScorpion]

You obviously have no interest in helping me so why should I give a fuck

[XScorpion]

That's not the issue here

[XScorpion]

If you are town why are you so uncooperative? How is that useful in any way shape or form

[XScorpion]

Confusion regarding your activities as a hydra makes it difficult if not impossible for people to read you. Lack of transparency in your actions is distinctively anti-town. Hiding things from town is not pro-town, and don't even think to lie about saying you aren't hiding anything.

[XScorpion]

So what exactly is anti-town here? We are forthcoming with our opinions, our observations, and our conclusions.

Bullshit. You literally just said that one head had an 'overblown' reaction, implying the other head thinks differently.

[XScorpion]

And again, the confusion is because we're out-of-synch.

And we're right back to where we started. You are creating confusion. You ADMIT you are creating confusion. How the fuck is this a good thing?

[XScorpion]

As an aside, the usage of "anti-town" here rather than "scummy" or "pro-scum" pings as being scum-oriented language usage.

This is the second game since I came back where people use language as shitty justification for their suspicions. How often does this actually work for you people?

Where are you confused, Scorp?

The entire beginning of the game is a mess of confusion. I have no idea, until you started signing your name, which head was which and who said what.

So what exactly is anti-town here? We are forthcoming with our opinions, our observations, and our conclusions.

Bullshit. You literally just said that one head had an 'overblown' reaction, implying the other head thinks differently.

You say it's an example of us not being transparent, when it's an example that proves we are. Saying that one of us had an overblown reaction is not hiding behind our hydra. That same exact statement could come from a slot that has only one player, simply replacing "one head" with "I". "One head had an overblown reaction, but trust me, it is alignment-null." Is exactly the same as "I had an overblown reaction, but trust me, it is alignment-null."

I tend to lynch people who pull shit like this.

[XScorpion]

If I said "I'm sorry about this whole game, it was an overblown reaction and alignment-null", would you unvote me? Of course you wouldn't because that's fucking stupid.

[XScorpion]

Where are you confused, Scorp?

The entire beginning of the game is a mess of confusion. I have no idea, until you started signing your name, which head was which and who said what.

So your confusion is entirely based on who is speaking, not what is being said?

T

Yes. I can read, thanks.

[XScorpion]

Where are you confused, Scorp?

The entire beginning of the game is a mess of confusion. I have no idea, until you started signing your name, which head was which and who said what.

So your confusion is entirely based on who is speaking, not what is being said?

T

Yes. I can read, thanks.

So, what we are saying isn't confusing to you?

T

I can read and understand English, yes. Pretty sure everything I've said about you being confusing is because you are two different people and I can't tell who is who.

[XScorpion]

This is the second game since I came back where people use language as shitty justification for their suspicions. How often does this actually work for you people?

Decently. It's not a 100% tell, but it's reliable enough to be worth pushing. Your reaction to it, for instance, looks terrible, so even if it weren't valid, the reaction to it was worth mentioning it.

I think it's bullshit and I think that you pushing it is bullshit and it's you just scraping to find more justification to accuse me of being scum when it totally isn't valid.

The entire beginning of the game is a mess of confusion.

This implies that there are things to you that are confusing other than us. What were those other things?
Also, what makes the mess of confusion in this game different from a mess of confusion that you'd experience in another game?

No it's literally just you. You are a mess of confusion. Besides me you have the most posts in the whole game, everywhere, and it's confusing as fuck trying to guess who said what.

If I said "I'm sorry about this whole game, it was an overblown reaction and alignment-null", would you unvote me? Of course you wouldn't because that's fucking stupid.

Not worded like that, and not necessarily from you. But yes. I would, given select circumstances. The timing of the move. The wording of the move. The familiarity with the style of play. (You might not know who I am, but you can tell what players I am similar to even without an identity.) If it was a town-oriented confession, hell yes I would unvote them. You're implying that the only thing mattering is the words, when words are useless; it's everything surrounding the words that's important. But theoretically speaking in just the words, you left out the most important ones. "Trust me" changes the entire message presented.

'Trust me' sounds like you are trying to manipulate people which is scummy. What happened to you not caring what town thinks about you?

My game-related alignment-related issue is that if you are scum we have literally no way to find out because we can't read you because we can't tell who is speaking and if the person who is speaking speaks for both heads or just one.

You might not know who I am, but you can tell what players I am similar to even without an identity.

I'd like to nominate this for dumbest fucking thing I've heard in the whole game.

[XScorpion]

I'm not a genius, but I decided I'd rather just play for fun and not to get better. Funny indeed.

[XScorpion]

Do you always base your reads off

who

is saying things and not what is being said?

T

Always? No, but it matters.

[XScorpion]

I think it's bullshit and I think that you pushing it is bullshit and it's you just scraping to find more justification to accuse me of being scum when it totally isn't valid.

We're not looking for justification to accuse you of being scum. We're looking for signs of your alignment. And all signs point to you being scum who is ticked off that he's gotten caught for what he perceives to be bullshit.

No it's literally just you. You are a mess of confusion. Besides me you have the most posts in the whole game, everywhere, and it's confusing as fuck trying to guess who said what.

The statement stands. You're trying to read who's made the posts, rather than the content in it. What, exactly, about that is town?

'Trust me' sounds like you are trying to manipulate people which is scummy.

Uh-huh. "Trust me" is manipulation.

My game-related alignment-related issue is that if you are scum we have literally no way to find out because we can't read you because we can't tell who is speaking and if the person who is speaking speaks for both heads or just one.

Funny that someone who seems to place importance on words is placing so much importance on an aspect that is entirely separated from them. Our identities do not change that we said the words in the first place. They

may

influence how the words are perceived if our styles of play are too different. (I am working on synching us up to be the same.) But you certainly don't believe this, because you explicitly say that you think it's stupid that our identities could influence things, here.

You might not know who I am, but you can tell what players I am similar to even without an identity.

I'd like to nominate this for dumbest fucking thing I've heard in the whole game.

You're contradicting yourself.

I'm on my phone so I can't format properly, but
1) I put forth the alternative explanation that I'm town who is fucking tired of bullshit language arguments being used to accuse me.
2) this whole game is about figuring out WHO the scum is, or am I playing the wrong game?
3) the reason its the dumbest fuxking thing is because I CANT compare play styles because I have no idea who is who

[XScorpion]

3) the reason its the dumbest fuxking thing is because I CANT compare play styles because I have no idea who is who

You're saying you can't compare our playstyle to anyone else you have played with on this site ever?

It's hard enough that I've only played with one hydra before this game; I can compare individuals but since you guys are disconnected it's difficult if not impossible for me to compare, yes.

2) this whole game is about figuring out WHO the scum is, or am I playing the wrong game?

This dodge is hilariously obvious. I asked you why you were trying to figure out our identities, rather than scumhunting off of our posts. You say...this.

This isn't a theme/bastard game, where one head can be town and the other scum. We share the same alignment. You're not trying to figure out who the scum is. You're trying to figure out who we are. Not WHAT we are.

To me these things are linked.

[XScorpion]

If you think playstyle has nothing to do with alignment you have a lot to learn.

[XScorpion]

Are you being serious right now? You're claiming that who the person is has any bearing whatsoever on the role they were randomly assigned by the mod game to game!

That is hilarious to me.

T

No, I'm claiming who the person is affects their playstyle with respect to their role.

[XScorpion]

It's hard enough that I've only played with one hydra before this game; I can compare individuals but since you guys are disconnected it's difficult if not impossible for me to compare, yes.

We're beginning to synch up. You can compare us to individuals. You're choosing not to.

Let me know when you finish synching up so I actually can, thanks.

2) this whole game is about figuring out WHO the scum is, or am I playing the wrong game?

This dodge is hilariously obvious. I asked you why you were trying to figure out our identities, rather than scumhunting off of our posts. You say...this.

This isn't a theme/bastard game, where one head can be town and the other scum. We share the same alignment. You're not trying to figure out who the scum is. You're trying to figure out who we are. Not WHAT we are.

To me these things are linked.

Do explain how knowing us helps you. Yes. You can read alignment from our playstyle. No, that doesn't

require

you knowing the players behind the hydra. You're focusing on the identity rather than the personality. Playstyle

does

have a lot to do with reading alignment. But you're explicitly

not

trying to read our playstyle. Instead, you're trying to read our identities. So our statement stands. You're focusing on who we are. Rather than what we've done.

Require? No. But you are making it pretty much as hard as possible.
It is because you have two identities that you have two different playstyles and thus I can't compare. Your argument would make sense if you were making decisions together, but you haven't. You've already failed to stay consistent with each other so what do you expect me to do?

Ok. Then use what you see here to determine out alignment and stop making excuses for not scumhunting.

T

You say this as though most of the town has managed to actually contribute something outside RVS. So far, all I see is you and me bickering for the last 3 pages because you won't play nice with me, pecan being sketchy as fuck, paschendale's post which applies to blueberry and to no one else on the wagon, and shos not doing anything productive. Did I miss something?

[XScorpion]

Sorry that should say:
paschendale's first post which accuses you & your weak-ass defense of it, paschendale's second post which applies to blueberry and to no one else on the wagon,

[XScorpion]

I'd actually like to hear mollie's input on shos

[XScorpion]

I'd actually like to hear mollie's input on shos

Is Anti's input less valued?

T
(the last post was also me)

I don't know, but I know mollie and I played with shos recently. Anti can share what he thinks all he wants.

[XScorpion]

Require? No. But you are making it pretty much as hard as possible.

No. We aren't. You are. We have responded to everything you have brought up, in detail, and, I might add, have both been saying the same things and making the same points.

This is a lie. If you want to actually make it easier then tell us who you are.

It is because you have two identities that you have two different playstyles and thus I can't compare.

Ok, does the same apply to the other 2 hydrae in this game? Or just us because "reasons"?

So far the Scarlet Yoshi hydra has only had one head talk. If they behave like you then yes it applies to them too, but if they are transparent enough to distinguish between heads and make exclusively collaborative decisions then I will be satisfied. In addition, the identities of the heads are revealed, the mere fact of which makes them more pro-town than you.
I know antihero and I know mollie so the same certainly does not apply to them.

Your argument would make sense if you were making decisions together, but you haven't. You've already failed to stay consistent with each other so what do you expect me to do?

Another falsehood. We have both agreed that you have shown scum motivation. We have both agreed on voting for you. We have both agreed that your reasoning is unsound and displays a scum POV.

And you did not both agree on making post 93.

Do you think it will be different?

T

Only if antihero writes what he thinks independently of mollie, which is possible.

Rather, are you hoping it will be?

T

I'm not hoping anything. I am merely curious.

[XScorpion]

I would agree, Taylor, if I wasn't convinced that it's eventually going to happen again.

[XScorpion]

This game hasn't been fun yet but I'm sure things will change one way or another. When it's more than just Taylor and I posting I'll be happier.

[XScorpion]

Shos I agree with Mollie's opinion of you. What do you have to say about it?

[XScorpion]

In post 73, XScorpion wrote:
Oh god can you imagine if the scumteam is all 3 hydras?
How do you know how many scum there are?

...seriously? Get in the game.
Also can you like actually scumhunt instead of boo-hooing about having to read through the arguments? I don't like unvotes that aren't followed by new votes.

Could you point me to a game where you used meta in your scumhunt? You're making a big deal out of something I suspect you don't even employ in your towngames.

I could find an example if you are really really interested but trying to recall details of any game I played three years ago is a bit much to ask. That being said, I think you are mostly correct. Meta is something that
a) others are probably better at analyzing than I
b) I probably won't even bother using until lylo (when the whole game is behind us and everything can be looked at in perspective)
But that doesn't mean it's useless or that it shouldn't be an available tool.

Let me know if you want me to go dig through the old games and look.

XScorpion, clarify this for me though: why are you giving Taylor such a hard time over this but are giving a pass to Scarlet Yoshi and Helium3?

Scarlet doesn't get as easy a pass as helium, but
1) I know exactly who helium is
2) I didn't have to harass Scarlet to do something as simple as sign posts with different names. I shouldn't have to.

He's basing his attack on a logical argument. The problem is the logical argument is actually a defensive one: the defense against the argument that mysterious hydras are scummy. It's easy to make an argument against this argument. But it's a bridge too far to use it as an attack as well.

Um, mysterious hydras ARE scummy. Mysterious ANYONE is scummy. I'm always suspicious of people who have something to hide, almost as much as people who dodge questions.

Speaking of which,

In post 109, pieceofpecanpie wrote:
@BlueberryI have heard of asking questions, thanks, you can start by giving me your opinion on Taylor? What, if anything, makes them town?

Taylor has been very confusing with her hydra stuff and I don't really like that she and scorp wasted like 5 pages bickering. It's not scummy though.

Try again?

[XScorpion]

If you want literally the first example I found,
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2404091
where I identify Scott (correctly) as town based on meta.

[XScorpion]

'Taylor has been confusing' does not answer 'what is town about Taylor?'

[XScorpion]

Very insightful. Do you always sit on the fence with respect to your reads?

[XScorpion]

Helium, can you explain the gg vote?
I'm assuming the last Taylor post is from the 'genius' since it isn't signed with a T?

[XScorpion]

Oh paschendale already asked. Helium why are you dodging questions?

[XScorpion]

Oh paschendale already asked. Helium why are you dodging questions?

because I thought "he is wearing eau de scum cologne, can you smell it" should be rather obvious I mean I am not sure why I would have say it tbh.

I can't smell it. Would you mind describing it to me?

[XScorpion]

Oh paschendale already asked. Helium why are you dodging questions?

because I thought "he is wearing eau de scum cologne, can you smell it" should be rather obvious I mean I am not sure why I would have say it tbh.

I can't smell it. Would you mind describing it to me?

strong hints of surface-level scumhunting combined with soft underlays of going after low hanging fruit based on superficial reasons with the faintest hint of him looking a bit nervous.

Are you suggesting that voting for Blueberry is 'low hanging fruit'? Do you think blueberry is scum or town?

[XScorpion]

On one hand helium has a point in that unless I am mistaken, this is actually blueberry's first open game (majority have been marathon, plus a number of micros), so the skill level argument has some merit. On the other hand I really don't see GGscum at this point and I think that it would be more productive to push blueberry than GG (who has contributed quite a bit so far).

[XScorpion]

On one hand helium has a point in that unless I am mistaken, this is actually blueberry's first open game (majority have been marathon, plus a number of micros), so the skill level argument has some merit. On the other hand I really don't see GGscum at this point and I think that it would be more productive to push blueberry than GG (who has contributed quite a bit so far).

you are getting distracted by shiny things scorp

Why are you defending blueberry?

[XScorpion]

On one hand helium has a point in that unless I am mistaken, this is actually blueberry's first open game (majority have been marathon, plus a number of micros), so the skill level argument has some merit. On the other hand I really don't see GGscum at this point and I think that it would be more productive to push blueberry than GG (who has contributed quite a bit so far).

you are getting distracted by shiny things scorp

Why are you defending blueberry?

if you don't stop pestering me I am going to get cranky

BLUEBERRY IS NULL. I AM SCUMHUNTING GROOVY KID RIGHT NOW. IF BLUE DOES SOMETHING WEIRD I WILL BE ON HIM LIKE WHITE ON RICE BUT GROOVY KID IS BEING SUPER WEIRD RIGHT NOW HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU MISSING THIS

I don't think going after blueberry is a scumtell. Do you have something better than that?

[XScorpion]

And every other player is scumhunting totally up to your satisfaction?

[XScorpion]

And every other player is scumhunting totally up to your satisfaction?

to what end are you hoping to achieve with this line of questioning? I am not trying to dodge what you are asking, cos the answer is yes and no or

we would not have been pushing on multiple people.

Who are you pushing? Because it looks to me like you are pushing GG and that's it. Saying "shos has caught my attention" and voting him but not actually asking any questions does not count, and makes your argument against GG seem very hypocritical.

[XScorpion]

And every other player is scumhunting totally up to your satisfaction?

to what end are you hoping to achieve with this line of questioning?

I am not trying to dodge what you are asking

, cos the answer is yes and no or we would not have been pushing on multiple people.

You seem really concerned that I don't think you are dodging questions. Are you worried I will think you are scum?

[XScorpion]

His frustration and indignation did not feel genuine to either of us.

Rule 8: "Please treat your fellow players with respect. At the same time, please try not to take comments personally whenever possible." Please don't take things personally, and be respectful, thank you.

[XScorpion]

As for the only thing in here I actually think is worth answering,

What is it about unvotes that you don't like?

Unvoting is fine. Unvoting without applying pressure elsewhere with a new vote is a sign of relenting on scumhunting, which is scummy to me.

[XScorpion]

Taylor please let me know what "genuine" frustration looks like.

[XScorpion]

I must have read my role PM wrong then, because I thought I was town. Please tell me more about how Taylor is town just because they are hiding themselves.

[XScorpion]

And I don't think I have to state my intense dislike for shos' last post.

[XScorpion]

A joke vote for the biggest wagon? Why don't I believe you?
Also I am interested in shos pulling a complete 180 from post 100. Can you explain this?

[XScorpion]

TSO can you explain why town shouldn't lynch you?

[XScorpion]

Not particularly, seeing as I've done nothing wrong.

I may be confused as to what your post meant, but are you going to be analyzing alignments exclusively based on RVS behavior?

A joke vote for the biggest wagon? Why don't I believe you?
Also I am interested in shos pulling a complete 180 from post 100. Can you explain this?

first line: +1
second line: well duh, that was less than 24 hours from gamestart, and 300 posts ago. you posted BOOKS since. am I obliged to keep a third-post read through the entire game?

You are obliged to explain your votes though.

You're town, Pasch. I know you are, you know you are. But I'm also town. We're also town. I can see where you're coming from. But simply put, it's wrong. We aren't scum. We're about as far from it as you can get.

Honestly what is with you and buddying? This is the third time now.

[XScorpion]

Since one of the heads of the taylor hydra told me about the replacement slot I joke voted for them...

Why are you joke voting when we are on page 16? Do you plan to slide through this game completely unnoticed?

[XScorpion]

has the identity of that slot been made public yet?

It wasn't the biggest wagon when I voted (it was joint biggest )
UNVOTE:
Until my read

Whoa whoa wait a second
This is a lie
The next biggest wagon was GG with 2 votes, and Taylor had 3.
What are you trying to pull here?!?

[XScorpion]

Not particularly, seeing as I've done nothing wrong.

I may be confused as to what your post meant, but are you going to be analyzing alignments exclusively based on RVS behavior?

Most certainly not, but it will factor in.

1/4 through the game.

OK I just wanted to clarify, because a 'yes' answer would merit a vote from me. Carry on

has the identity of that slot been made public yet?

It wasn't the biggest wagon when I voted (it was joint biggest )
UNVOTE:
Until my read

Whoa whoa wait a second
This is a lie
The next biggest wagon was GG with 2 votes, and Taylor had 3.
What are you trying to pull here?!?

Yes you're right. I miscounted

Stop lurking and scumhunt.

I have questions:
@Blueberry: What are your reads on myself, Taylor, and Helium? I will not accept "Nothing is town about Taylor. Nor scummy." as an answer.
@TSO: Where is the game where you successfully determined alignments using RVS? How do you know it was RVS examination that led you to these conclusions? I won't ask anything else until you finish your read.
@Taylor: Explain the 180 from:

Even after reading Taylor's wall, I still don't know where they stand. Everything from that slot is purely reactionary.

Town reads:

grim

, helium
Probably town: pecan, pasch
Null: blueberry, obscurity
Maybe scum: shos
Scum: xscorpion

Pasch, I'm a little surprised to see you say this when I stated both my town and scum reads by name in there.

T

It seems like most of GG's wagon is on him for meta-related reasons except N64Lord, who actually thinks GG is town and just hasn't changed his vote. Is there a reason to vote for GG OTHER than "this isn't how town GG plays"?
BTW someone lurking is scum so if you could all get into the game that would be great.

[XScorpion]

FAKE meta-related reasons.
Don't know who Taylor is, but what he's saying is false. 10+ posts in a row is not weird for me, and neither are 1vs1's spanning more than a page.
And Antihero and pirate_mollie really do know me better than that. This "low hanging fruit"-bullshit is just that...bullshit. It's based on quicksand. Blueberry was not low-hanging fruit. He still is not low-hanging fruit. I called him out for specific reasons that outweigh anything that has been presented against me. I am very curious where people see the town intentions in helium's posts.

Blueberry made a new post where he voted for shos. What do you think about that? (I'm not sure if you were too busy arguing with the hydras to notice it).

[XScorpion]

That's not scumhunting.
VOTE: Guyett

[XScorpion]

Sure, I'll just vote you then. That seems fine.

[XScorpion]

Even after reading Taylor's wall, I still don't know where they stand. Everything from that slot is purely reactionary.

Town reads:

grim

, helium
Probably town: pecan, pasch
Null: blueberry, obscurity
Maybe scum: shos
Scum: xscorpion

Pasch, I'm a little surprised to see you say this when I stated both my town and scum reads by name in there.

T

Honestly what is with you and buddying? This is the third time now.

Fuck buddying being a scumtell. That's what. I'll buddy as much as I'd like to, your objections be damned.

VOTE: Grimgroove.

I'm back in the game, though I expect some synching up with my partner is still needed.

... that 180!!!

You're literally copying my posts. What the fuck.

[XScorpion]

Ok I am being intentionally anti town (but not scummy), in doing so making myself a nice big mislynch target for the scum, to draw said scum out. It is not the first time I have done this gambit. Feel free to lynch me if you do not believe me and when I flip town you'll have a nice list with our scum on it to reference.

Don't pull this bullshit here. Actually scumhunt and don't be a VI.

[XScorpion]

Sorry mod, I didn't notice :X

[XScorpion]

Shos: Shos hasn't been screwing around at all. Props. Seems to be a little tunnel-y of XScorp, but not too much. I'd definitely like more reads on other people from Shos. Town.

In my universe, "hasn't been screwing around at all" and "votes without explanation" do not fit together.

[XScorpion]

Shos: Shos hasn't been screwing around at all. Props. Seems to be a little tunnel-y of XScorp, but not too much. I'd definitely like more reads on other people from Shos.

Town.

Blueberry: Bad vote, misrep, and a big wall of wtf. Quotes with argumentative comments are not content.

Shos vote is maybe okay.

Weak scum.

Something doesn't fit here.

[XScorpion]

VOTE: Taylor

What's your justification for that vote?

Whoa I didn't even see that vote. What the hell is with the lurkers in this game?
Mod can I become a dayvig please? I have a lot of people I want to shoot...

[XScorpion]

A lot of things I want to respond to, I'll get something up later today.

[XScorpion]

Quality post coming later but,
Hi ETL. It seems like we are destined to always fight on day 1.
I'm less convinced of Taylor-scum now.
I started the game liking Pasch but I like him much less now and starting to lean scum, especially with the shos defense.
shos is still sketchy as fuck
I think GG is town and no one directly answered if there is a non-meta argument for scum-gg. Vote for Taylor is really bad though, especially with 2 lurkers on the wagon.
I don't like helium's play, doesn't feel like good scumhunting. I want to hear helium's reads on everyone (it might be in the last few pages, haven't gotten a chance to analyze, but if it isn't there then I wanna see it).
pecan is now actively lurking which I really don't like.
Guyett is doing much much better now and I agree with a lot of what he said. I'll UNVOTE: and VOTE: Paschendale. I want an explanation for why shos is town considering his vote on me has no explanation at all.

[XScorpion]

Just gonna go page by page here:

I would say it was hydra dissonance, that T made that list without my consent. However, that'd be inaccurate. T is beginning to come around to my point of view. T made that list without my input; that is still true. However, I cannot claim hydra dissonance anymore because T is actually agreeing with my revised reads, and not T's stated reads. Thus, this IS a question that can be answered, but not by me. By T.

The basic reason behind it, though, is that T--like me--feels that there is something off about Grimgroove's play this game. Going off of our guts, we're both beginning to see a lot of the same things, and they're the things I've been pointing out. For instance, that your posting has gotten much better.

So are you confirming that this is a meta call and nothing else? I'm a bit tired of saying this, but why should anyone suspect GG besides meta?

I don't share Guyett's views of Taylor (I don't think the 'defensive' argument thing happened here) or TSO (I only have a null read, not sure how you can be so convinced of TSO scum from such little content), but otherwise I think Guyett is spot on with the reads. The Pasch one I would have agreed with if not for his latest posts which are making me reconsider my town read of Pasch.

Random thought of the moment: GG is going to be pissed if TSO votes him for those 2 RVS votes.

He's treating Helium like they are town. Like he knows they are town.

This argument doesn't work because you do this all the time.

A mere repetition is not an answer to my questions.

Because presenting yourself as a "mislynch target" in a playerlist with far easier targets is disingenuous.

Also, I think mollie was just agreeing with me. Or she was correcting my hydra slip.

Ah, the low-hanging fruit thing again. What makes these targets easier?
Paschendale isn't acting scummy at all in this game, good luck getting him lynched. Don't know what had gotten into him in that Reboot game, but if he had played like how he's doing here he wouldn't have been a mislynch.
Blueberry, well, you keep saying he's low-hanging fruit, but I'm still not seeing that.

I agree with GG here; Helium, why do you think those 3 are easy lynch targets?

also pasch wasn't fuckin scummy in reboot i did not understand that lynch at all. he's scummy here.

T

You say this but I haven't seen you vote him. You're still on what I consider to be a stupid wagon considering helium's tunneling.

Xscorpion: Before calling the vote on Taylor bad, you should take a look at what surrounds the vote.

A post full of emoticons. I voted Taylor when I was pissed off too and now you're doing the exact same thing I was.
If it wasn't an OMGUS vote AND wasn't on a wagon that currently is populated by 50% lurkers then maybe I wouldn't call it bad, but it's bad.

Xscorpion is right. You should give a readslist. That would be a real reach out. What you've given me now is not a reach out. It's a threat.

HELIUM

if you ignore this I will lynch you so fast it's not even funny.

XScorp's 502: The what now? You think Shos' vote is scummy but you're voting for me? Shos looked (at the time of 429) to be decently town to me. He's providing content. It's a little tunnel-y, but it's a lot better than all the shouting you do.

Are you reading the same game as me? Shos hasn't contributed anything remotely useful at all. And where exactly is he tunneling? He doesn't even suggest the idea that I'm scummy, he just puts down a vote. Give me a REAL reason why you think he is town because you haven't so far.

Guyett, as above, makes a good point that's causing me to reconsider the townread, but Shos certainly isn't going to get a strong scumread from me. Your point is nonsense, though, and if you want Shos to defend his vote better, bug him, not me.

His point is literally one line saying 'shos looks like he's contributing but he really isn't.' Do you agree or not? If you do, then how on earth do you still refuse to see him as scum?
Why do I suspect Pasch isn't paying full attention to this game? First the assumption that everyone voting Pecan had the same mindset as Blueberry, now the complete failure to analyze shos... I'm willing to believe Pasch is town if he admits he was not paying attention whatsoever when he analyzed shos.

I don't think I can without outing one of the heads of the hydra and until they're happy to not be anonymous.

Then why should anyone trust you about it?

You don't have to but it could be very important if either TSO or Taylor get lynched or if we get a result on one of them.

The hydras are outed. What do you have to say?

Guyett - Nullscum (really not buying that supposed meta-study he did on me, it's something small but it really pings hard. The other stuff is better.)

I don't like this read at all.

shos - Nulltown

WHY?!?!?!?!?!!
What the hell is with so many people thinking there is anything town about this guy? Am I totally missing something here?

anti and I are talking right now and 1 of the things that has come up is how

nearly every1 is OMGUSing in this game

and it makes the game murky and hard to get reads. and I probably need to do a reread through.

This is actually a very valid point, and makes me think that people are getting too emotional here.

so I haven't been able to get on the site for some time for some reason, and now I have SIX more pages to catch up. SHEESH GUYS

If you are actively lurking I will massacre you.

[XScorpion]

Random thought of the moment: GG is going to be pissed if TSO votes him for those 2 RVS votes.

RVS posts***

[XScorpion]

you are literally sheeping me for a while here now. not only this line, but also the call for guyette-lurker which is in fact wrong since he only replaced in(my bad btw) - you're faking it. faking it all.
~~~

This is gonna be good. Can't wait till you get to the end.

[XScorpion]

this is a scummy rubbish post. you literally went over my entire ISO and read it for us. they can read, telling them what I do is of no use. not to mention that half of what you said there is just plain wrong.

I did state why i was voting scorp

, and I never called BB 'too stupid to be scum'. I mean where the hell did that come from? see above for why BB is town.

What, because I disagreed with Taylor? Try a bit harder plz

[XScorpion]

Haha I'm not sure it's even worth my time to respond to shos' "case".

[XScorpion]

shos give me your reads of all the players or I'll vote you.

[XScorpion]

shos give me your reads of all the players or I'll vote you.

VOTE: shos

[XScorpion]

Wtf Lurker vote, Shos? Losing that townread that I had on you.

I told you. I fucking told you.
Shos is not scumhunting. Period.
Shos is not reading the topic. In fact, shos refuses to read the topic.
Shos is deliberately hiding by voting for lurkers. You guys think GG was going for 'low-hanging fruit'? Here is the lowest of the low right here.
Now why am I the only one voting shos?

[XScorpion]

The instant you synch I want your reads of all the players. No dodging.

[XScorpion]

Let's see what I've missed.

the moral of this game is when you start to enjoy yourself, get some townreads and generally hunt scum, a Lurker replaces out and who comes in? Sthar8.

Seems like almost everyone knows sthar8 except me. Can you explain this comment, TSO?

I like this replacement.
on to Obscurity, please.

Why? And nice continuing to not scumhunt.

He seems to really like easy targets, and that's making the inside of my nose sweaty.

Are you sure you are referring to me? Who is an easy target exactly?

can anyone please freakin explain to me why people always mention mastin?

Just a reminder to everyone that shos is not actually bothering to pay any attention to the game.

Not an easy target to lynch, but an easy target to have a big, overblown, meaningless argument with. ETL will recall that I tried to do the same thing twice in antihero. Save Shos, I have no idea who scorp wants to lynch or doesn't and that's a red flag for me. I'll dig up some examples of him and n64 later.

Why would I want to have a "big, overblown, meaningless argument"? I'd rather not spend the whole game being pissed off because people don't cooperate with me.
If you want to know who I want to lynch, why don't you bloody well ASK me??? I don't like your attitude at all.
Presuming you actually care, right now I don't see why we should lynch anyone but shos. The 'policy lynch' bullshit is just shos' way to get away from actually scumhunting, so to quote N64Lord, shos is either scum or is woefully incapable of reading through the thread. I don't think town shos would be this lazy, so I suspect the former.

shos's Blueberry-bullshit, argh, and NOBODY IS CALLING HIM OUT ON THAT.

I am forgotten
Grim, why don't you vote with meeeeeeee

Lets get taylor a bit more uncomfortable then

VOTE: taylor

L-1 now

This is really really bad. Putting Taylor to L-1 when two of the votes on the wagon are obscurity(lurker) and willwang(replaced)? What the hell? I'm not liking the frequent Guyett vote hops.
Anyone who hammers here without a decent explanation from these two slots should be lynched tomorrow regardless of what Taylor flips.

Taylor should definitely be our first lynch. That said, letting some of our less prolific posters (like Obscurity and Blueberry) get to day 2 with so little to go on worries me. But Taylor is the obvious choice. I can see town or scum interpretations of most of the people I suspect. There's room for argument. There is no such room for Taylor.

I do think that a Taylor lynch gives the most information, but I don't think Taylor is scum, and we are losing information by having two of the votes on the wagon being from WW and obscurity.

okay is a list of our reads so far:

town:

taylor
scorp thing
tso
I

want

to put guyett in here

need to sort

lord something
blueberry
sthr8
pecan pie

scummy

thinking 1 of pasch or groovy kid is scum, thinking they are both not on the same team.
obscurity

Can you give maybe at least a sentence or two about why each person is here? I'm still not 100% convinced you are actually scumhunting and not just tunneling grim. In particular, wtf @ the obscurity read.

Very noticeable that you avoided mentioning shos in this.

Mega scumpoints for helium.

VOTE: guyette

so opportunistic.

also, he is again and again having his 'town reads getting a massive hit' the moment someone speaks.

GG, I really have no idea what's wrong with you this game; taylor is lik 95% town on my end, and me well I have no idea why you'd even think I am scum. do you think my scum-are-in-the-lurkers idea is wrong? do you think scum would be the ones to make a 28-page D1 in less than a week? as scum I wouldn't even have answered scorp when pinged for my heads. I'd say no and shut up.

what 'speaks for itself' in obs' iso? what's town in pecan? the both posted last content in like 600 posts ago, in the first 10(?) hours of the game maybe.

what is the * on TSO?

Taylor's hydra inconsistencies is not a scumtell, imo. hydra inconsistencies is a towntell teh way I see it, bcauese it shows that two heads are thinking, and these two heads might not agree with each other always. if two heads ALWAYS agreed, I'd say they're scum, cuz what are the odds.

calm the fuck down, think. you're better than this as town and I'm thinking you're town.

As said.

Players: *denotes a prod

Suddenly shos drops the policy lynch and votes for guyett. So are the lurkers not scum now, shos?
Note the bolded text. Guyett only said this ONCE and shos is already making it out to be a scumtell. This is not town looking for scum; shos is finding someone he can vote for/lynch without drawing attention to himself (he can't lynch Taylor because he already said Taylor was town, it would be too suspicious).

Shos - scumread him earlier, right now nullscumish

While shos is probably town...

WHY?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

Blueberry's vote for Pasch isn't terrible, but unvoting shos is. SERIOUSLY???

We've weaponized the near-mislynch. It's scum-driven, Pure and simple, and you can win the game from lynching entirely within it. Guaranteed.

Guaranteed? I don't think all 3 scum are on it. Two maybe, but 3...no.

[XScorpion]

I spoilered ahead and saw the claim, so I'll read the last 3 pages with that in mind.

yes

I only have 1 or mebbe 2 completed games with shos, so he is not a real strong presence for me. in the first game I was scum so there was a natural barrier there wrt getting to know him and in the other game I don't remember which 1 it was and I don't remember anything about it.

I am a meta player so my on read on him is not in anyway firm since I don't have a strong baseline in which to do a comparison. in the game where I was scum and he was town, he impressed the hell out of me, I was decently afraid of him. I do not have that same feeling in this game, mainly cos I don't see him really trying to figure things out, he is just not playing the same as he did in that game where he seized control early and really tried to organise town. but I am wondering if that game is an anomaly.

He's certainly not being impressive here. So why don't you vote with me?

In post 696, XScorpion wrote:
Very noticeable that you avoided mentioning shos in this. Mega scumpoints for helium.

why is this mega scumpoints for him without a scumflip on me?
has it never happened to you that you forgot someone? it is worth a question of 'why I am omitted'(actually I'd like an answer to that too) but mega scumpoints is supermeh,

especially when your vote is still parked on towntaylor.

I don't think it's even worth arguing with you when you're not paying attention to the game.

Are you really accusing me of not-policy-lynching? seriously?
the lurkers still have a good, solid chance to include a scum. as far as I can see it, scum are split between the inactive ones and the taylor wagon.

I'm having troubles seeing any scum active

and not on the wagon currently, lol. the reason that I discharged this for a guyette vote is obvious, lol;

any vote with practical, solid reasons to it is better than a policy lynch, no matter how much you'd think that the lurkerlynch is correct.

The bolded is true, so why have you spent ANY TIME AT ALL voting for lurkers???
The italics is suspicious; you literally don't see any active scum at all besides guyette? Was your vote for me just for the lulz?

I'm pretty sure that guyette hasn't said that only once, but I may be confusing people. anyway that vote was bad, and I was suspecting guyette earlier too, so really I didn't need too much to make me vote him.

Read: "I didn't need too much to make an excuse to put a vote on him".

You are not scumhunting.

And you are also a hypocrite, see:

the more you post the farther you get from the town-GG that played with me in my last 3 games.

Which is literally the same thing that Guyette said.

You just keep saying that I don't scumhunt, oh here's more not scumhunting, etc etc; but ffs, take a look at people in the game. specifically, take a look at pecan, Obs and guyette. compare to my own ISO, and then bang your head to the wall a tad, and look again. it might Clear your vision.

This does not say "I'm sorry, I will scumhunt now", this says "I'm not scumhunting, but the lurkers aren't either." This is not a defense.

VOTE: TSO

Nothing much happening there. No reads... no votes.

You're not seriously joining the shos "let's lynch the lurkers to avoid scumhunting" party, are you?

shos, mini 1510. Go to Grim's #659, read from there.

pedit: good point son!!

vote: Guyett

The OMGUS train continues. How many people AREN'T voting for someone who accused them of being scum? Goddamnit guys.
And good luck getting shos to read things.

I believe GG's claim which makes me furious because I feel like the odds of us winning just plummeted. Thanks a lot GG, I really appreciate it. </sarcasm>

lol firstly read up the 500 posts you skipped

Have you said one sensible thing this game?

Dear Pecan:
Please help me vote out the scum. You're looking at him right there.
Love, XScorpion

Why not tso or shos?

Taylor WHY NOT SHOS?????

[XScorpion]

The 50-50 split plan is fine, not a big fan of making faith healers claim but IDC really what we do.
I'm torn because on one hand I am certain shos is scum but on the other hand obscurity's post is just so bad I don't even know. shos/obscurity/XX scumteam?
Not liking the vote hopping from pecan and helium.
XScorpion's scale of town to scum: (note: the middle area is a little fuzzy and I'm not as certain)

Town

GG
Taylor
N64Lord

~~fuzzy zone~~

sthar8
Pasch
Blueberry
TSO
guyett

~~fuzzy zone~~

helium
pecan
Obscurity
Shos

Scum

I'd like to get a better read on my fuzzy zone people, so:
@Sthar8: What are your reads of all the players right now?
@Pasch: Do you think the scumteam includes Taylor/shos? If so, who is your third scumread? If not, who is most likely to be paired with each?
@Blueberry: why have you not bothered to ask questions to the people you are not sure about?
@TSO: what did you determine exactly from the RVS thing? I don't think you specified.
@guyett: you have to explain your hunch because it's not acceptable that you claim the scumteam is TSO/Taylor/Shos without the town knowing why.
Finally @Obscurity you damn well better post a wall of content next time you are here or I am just throwing caution to the wind and conceding to shos and lynching you.

[XScorpion]

This sort of discussion that's been going on in the thread lately is about as useful as my 4 page tirade with Taylor. Can we stop getting pissed at each other and focus on scumhunting?
There are way too many null reads because of people lacking content posts, or because people aren't bothering to question those they aren't sure about to try to get a better read.
Taylor, why don't you like the push on shos?
Helium, why haven't you questioned any of your 'need to sort' reads?
Guyett's explanation for his 'hunch' is really bad and makes no sense.
TSO, what is your read on shos?
Helium, why is sthar8 town?
shos, can you explain my 'towntell'?

[XScorpion]

Xscorp: what is your read on guyette? will you be willing to have an Obscurity lynch assuming he keeps going like this and doesn't replace out?

My perception of Guyett has wavered over the course of the game and at the moment, after that really lame excuse for tying TSO and Taylor together, I'm leaning scum. I also don't like that his 'case' on you was basically just paraphrasing all of the things I've already pointed out.
Obscurity will contribute or be replaced or get lynched.

I'll

Vote: Shos

For now but I really don't have time for explanations.

Make time.

In post 962, shos wrote:
questions, you know, a part of scumhunting? that thing that you're not doing

ikr

As much as it pains me to type this, shos is right.
VOTE: Blueberry

[XScorpion]

Can I get a votecount? I'm probably going to switch my vote to Obscurity but I want to see who is voting for who.

[XScorpion]

What the holy fuck.

Apparently, active lurking as a tactic has been voted out by

vox populi.

If that's truly what MS has come down to, fuck you all very much.

@Mod: replace me, then.

I strongly disagree with the notion of a moderator bending to the will of the players as far as force-replacing. But who am I, anyway.

Pardon me for having no sympathy.

[XScorpion]

My thoughts:

I don't like the overreaction from helium to pasch's post. Seems unnecessary and I really really don't like the "you are a complete and total fucking idiot if you think that is the best post in the game." This is helium working way too hard to get people to not vote for/suspect them.
I like my blueberry vote and am not sure what makes anyone think he is town.
Don't like Taylor defending helium, but I do like attention being brought to the fact that pecan is actively lurking.
I have a feeling that 1 of Pasch or Helium is scum but I am not sure which. If pasch is scum that doesn't really help me identify his partners, but I am pretty confident taylor and helium are on the same team.
Huge scumpoints for shos trying to get obscurity lynched using obscurity's last post. Pasch's post isn't the best post in the game, but 1067 could be one of the worst.

Looking at the two wagons, I am not opposed to lynching either one, although I'd prefer the shos lynch. Since we're getting close to deadline, I will go back to VOTE: shos even though I dislike being on the same wagon as Blueberry. Very interested to hear thoughts about the two wagons from everyone who is not on them (Pasch, N64, Taylor, Helium, Majiffy).
Also Majiffy I would really like it a lot if you gave as much content as you could before the lynch because no one has any idea about the alignment of that slot and if they say they do they are wrong.

Also my connection to mafiascum.net has been really sketchy lately so I apologize if I am slow with posting or don't get a chance to communicate effectively. I'll try to respond to anyone who has questions for me as soon as possible though.

[XScorpion]

@Helium: If I was dead set on it, I'd have voted you by now. I still don't see why you are being so antagonistic. There isn't a need to flip out whenever someone suggests they think you are scum, and insulting people for thinking so is hardly helpful and only serves to further convince them you are suspicious. I see where you are trying to come from with your voting/scumhunting strategy but it's really unhelpful to the rest of us how your thoughts are unclear at times. It's also hard to get a read on you when no one is pressuring you


p-edit:

Also Majiffy I would really like it a lot if you gave as much content as you could before the lynch because no one has any idea about the alignment of that slot and if they say they do they are wrong.

lol, this coming from someone heaping the "scumpoints" on

anyone who even gives the obscurity slot a funny look

You know, scorp, I've been holding my tongue, but I'm getting fed up with you scumreading us regardless of what we do, turning mollie's playstyle into a scumtell, and

chainsawing everyone attacking the obscurity slot

The fuck are you talking about? Literally shos is the only person I've accused of that, and only after Obscurity replaced out. I WAS TALKING ABOUT VOTING OBSCURITY MYSELF JUST A FEW PAGES AGO!

[XScorpion]

There isn't a need to flip out whenever someone suggests they think you are scum

...this seems familiar (grim groove at the beginning of this game?)...

...nah...

You aren't wrong. I never said I approved of GG's play, I just don't think he's scum. Maybe you aren't either, heck, I can think of several players (shos, Blueberry, pecan) who I think are more likely scum than you. I'm just not 100% convinced you're town.

[XScorpion]

and at the risk of a bare-knuckle brawl with majiffy, i'm still pretty sure obscurity is a scum slot

people think that you need a certain amount of "content" to read someone, but those people are wrong

Why are you sure?

[XScorpion]

I accept your terms.
But I really want to know how you are so sure obscurity is scum and not just a really useless town player with such little information to go on?

[XScorpion]

That makes sense, although like you say, he could just be 'as much of a jerk as eric cartman' which is a possibility considering no one else plays like he did ('actively' lurking, i.e. prod dodging only).

At the moment, you couldn't possibly convince me to vote out that slot right now without hearing from Majiffy. If he turns out to be paragon of scumhunting then I'm willing to believe Obscurity is just a really bad player. I would not be surprised at all if the slot is scum and I totally would have lynched him if he didn't replace out but I still think shos is scummy for immediately jumping on him before Majiffy came in. That said, I will be watching Majiffy very closely and the same 'lots of content or I will be happy to lynch you' ultimatum I gave Obscurity still applies here.

[XScorpion]

Scorp, you called me megascum for saying precisely what you just said makes sense. You also ignored the fact that i *brought it into attention*, and not *OMGDISSLOTSOSCUM* as your post suggested. Ill respond further at home.

You are arguing semantics. You still brought it up immediately, and whether what you say makes sense or not, jumping on him so fast after requesting replacement looks sketchy, like you wanted to build a case while there was no one to defend it.

[XScorpion]

That being said, I'm not liking Majiffy already.

[XScorpion]

And for a second, I was almost convinced shos actually reads the topic, until I got to here.

that is 150% correct imo.

p-edit:

Also Majiffy I would really like it a lot if you gave as much content as you could before the lynch because no one has any idea about the alignment of that slot and if they say they do they are wrong.

lol, this coming from someone heaping the "scumpoints" on

anyone who even gives the obscurity slot a funny look

You know, scorp, I've been holding my tongue, but I'm getting fed up with you scumreading us regardless of what we do, turning mollie's playstyle into a scumtell, and

chainsawing everyone attacking the obscurity slot

The fuck are you talking about? Literally shos is the only person I've accused of that, and only after Obscurity replaced out. I WAS TALKING ABOUT VOTING OBSCURITY MYSELF JUST A FEW PAGES AGO!

[XScorpion]

where have I exactly tried to get Obs lynched? I am the one who initiated his replacement, and I didn't do it just because. that wagon had some tide - I could just as easily hop on it and probably ride through a lynch. I chose not to, and attempt a force replacement. Then, I took attention to that post. THAT IS IT. If you took your time to actually READ THE POST, you'll see that its intention was to see if anyone knows who Obs is, any meta etc. the only one who answered it is Stahr so far. I'll just assume that the others say no as well.

The difference between "taking attention to" and building a case for lynching a goldfish is a fine line considering the replacement wasn't even there yet. And how is anyone supposed to know who obscurity is?
Do you think the slot is scum?

[XScorpion]

my play here deserves a D1 lynch :/

How do you explain your play here?

pretty shit :/

I know I can do better too which is the irritating thing.

dat AtE.

goddamn.

Yeah this is a reason I'd be okay with lynching Guyett too, but I want to wait and hear from the people who aren't voting shos or Guyett.

[XScorpion]

now, let's see what I did there.
1. look more closely.
2. bring it up that obs admitted to have active lurked as tactic.
3. ask if there's a reason for town to do that(which I also did in my last longpost, after stahr said that there are such reasons)
4. ask if anyone knows whose alt he is so that I can research meta and gain info.

^^^is a case???

Not a case in itself, but the first steps towards the makings of one.

I'm not supporting a Taylor lynch. The other two wagons are much better.

[XScorpion]

see, this is exactly what I meant when I agreed with 'everything we do is a scumtell'. earlier you accused me of not scumhunting; now when I actually dedicate my time to scumhunting, you take the thoughts I bring up(which, btw, seem to be shared by others as well) and call me scum for it for making a case. so I confront you, showing you that you're shitting out of yer mouth, and you 'correct yourself' - "oh it's not a case, it's the first step towards making a case. you gotta be scum for it". You see, in that post, I didn't do anything, not even as much as state a freakin opinion about anything. and you overblow things, way out of proportions. again and again and again.

So what, you expect me to overlook everything you do and conclude that you are town because it's all a big misunderstanding? If there was only one instance of this happening then I might agree, but 'again and again and again' I notice something that ticks to me and I point it out. If you don't think this is appropriate scumhunting, please explain what I should be doing differently. Do you think I should just avoid speaking about things people do I am suspicious of and keep everything to myself?

If I recall correctly, you have lots of scumreads. me; guyett; BB; pash; pecan; N64 - am I remembering correctly?
*sigh*

No, I never said I thought N64 was scum, and although I am suspicious of Pasch I think there are much more likely scum candidates among the others.

Post 1200 works for Majiffy, but not for the rest of us because shos' replacement request makes perfect sense if both are scum.

Taylor we aren't lynching pasch today so you need to move your vote; please don't be stubborn about this. Same goes for anyone on the non-shos non-guyett wagons, although I'm sure the people voting Taylor don't want to listen.

[XScorpion]

see, this is exactly what I meant when I agreed with 'everything we do is a scumtell'. earlier you accused me of not scumhunting; now when I actually dedicate my time to scumhunting, you take the thoughts I bring up(which, btw, seem to be shared by others as well) and call me scum for it for making a case. so I confront you, showing you that you're shitting out of yer mouth, and you 'correct yourself' - "oh it's not a case, it's the first step towards making a case. you gotta be scum for it". You see, in that post, I didn't do anything, not even as much as state a freakin opinion about anything. and you overblow things, way out of proportions. again and again and again.

So what, you expect me to overlook everything you do and conclude that you are town because it's all a big misunderstanding? If there was only one instance of this happening then I might agree, but 'again and again and again' I notice something that ticks to me and I point it out. If you don't think this is appropriate scumhunting, please explain what I should be doing differently. Do you think I should just avoid speaking about things people do I am suspicious of and keep everything to myself?

If I recall correctly, you have lots of scumreads. me; guyett; BB; pash; pecan; N64 - am I remembering correctly?
*sigh*

No, I never said I thought N64 was scum, and although I am suspicious of Pasch I think there are much more likely scum candidates among the others.

Post 1200 works for Majiffy, but not for the rest of us because shos' replacement request makes perfect sense if both are scum.

Taylor we aren't lynching pasch today so you need to move your vote; please don't be stubborn about this. Same goes for anyone on the non-shos non-guyett wagons, although I'm sure the people voting Taylor don't want to listen.

[XScorpion]

I am willing to drop the shos wagon if it can prevent a Taylor lynch.
VOTE: Guyett

[XScorpion]

I am willing to drop the shos wagon if it can prevent a Taylor lynch.
VOTE: Guyett

What kind of thinking is this anyway?

I think Taylor is town, pretty straightforward thinking IMO

p-edit: Feeling pretty ok about my vote too.

[XScorpion]

It's 7 votes to hammer, Taylor.

[XScorpion]

if I'm getting lynched today, mark my words:
{

scorp

, obsslot, guyett,

BB

, sthar} packs all the scums in it.

my bet is stahr, maj,

N64

, guyett has all the scums.

What happened? Why the changes?

[XScorpion]

Happy scumday Shos!

[XScorpion]

Shos lynch: best
Guyett lynch: good
Helium lynch: okay
Taylor lynch: bad
N64 lynch: why is this even an option??

[XScorpion]

I had thanksgiving last month lol

[XScorpion]

Taylor you gotta change your vote.

[XScorpion]

Taylor you gotta change your vote.

Where? To Guyett, a townread? (Hell no.)
shos, a back-and-forth read? (Leaning town right now.) Probably not.
To helium? (Fuck no.)
To sthar8? (Okay. That one I can be receptive to.)

If I thought our vote was better placed elsewhere...I'd be placing it elsewhere.

Why is Pasch town to you?
...Or, hell, why isn't Pasch scum to you?

Pasch isn't scummier than Guyett or Shos, both of which are better wagons.

Emotions are running high, #1453 felt like a slap in the face as far as FH suggestions go.

There is not enough time to consider the merits of this, but - much like GG's cop claim - I don't want to go against it in Day 1. Taylor stays.

Taylor-lynch: No
Helium-lynch: Okay
Shos-lynch: No
Guyett-lynch: Yes

N64-lynch:

So why aren't you voting Guyett?

[XScorpion]

Yes. Why do I expose myself now, you ask? Because you're fucking lazy asses. A lazy town deserves a lazy cop. I see no reason not to be lazy as well in this kind of envrionment.

Actually... I don't care anymore.

lol, I don't think anti and I really care anymore

Seriously? Can we stop being whiny and actually play the game? I'm honestly getting sick and tired of all of the complaining and bickering and 'oh I don't care anymore so fuck the town I'm just going to role claim and screw my team over'. This is just getting ridiculous and I would feel really good if my townreads on you guys are totally wrong and you're the scum team just so I don't feel like I'm playing with people who aren't actually trying to win.

[XScorpion]

scorp thing we

have

been playing the game and there really is nothing else to say.

nlord and pasch are making up shit and groovy kid is cheering them on. it is depressing and there is nothing that I can do that will shake some sense into him. he will not be happy unless taylor or I are lynched.

Fortunately, the game has more than just 4 players, so maybe you can help get Guyett lynched instead?

my play here deserves a D1 lynch :/

Guyett do you really think so? Because it seems to me like you are trying pretty hard to get someone else lynched.

[XScorpion]

Yes. Why do I expose myself now, you ask? Because you're fucking lazy asses. A lazy town deserves a lazy cop. I see no reason not to be lazy as well in this kind of envrionment.

Actually... I don't care anymore.

lol, I don't think anti and I really care anymore

Seriously? Can we stop being whiny and actually play the game? I'm honestly getting <a href="http://magiccards.info/query?s=cname&q= ... er=AUTOANY" class="mtgcardextensionlink" name="Sick and Tired">Sick and Tired</a> of all of the complaining and bickering and 'oh I don't care anymore so fuck the town I'm just going to role claim and screw my team over'. This is just getting ridiculous and I would feel really good if my townreads on you guys are totally wrong and you're the scum team just so I don't feel like I'm playing with people who aren't actually trying to win.

what do the chances are that you think we are all town being retarded?

Earlier in the day I would have said pretty high; now I am not so sure. I think one of my townreads on Taylor or GG is wrong but I don't know which.

also our vot eis on guy so what

There is more to the game than just voting for the person you think is the scummiest.

[XScorpion]

To protect GG without having the faith healers block each other, presumably.
Or you know, maybe he's just vanilla town and you're over-analyzing these 'crumbs'?

[XScorpion]

His 876 reads are all really close to mine and I like his pressuring of shos. He doesn't feel like scum to me at all.

[XScorpion]

To protect GG without having the faith healers block each other, presumably.

This also doesn't make sense from a FH point of view. If he is one of them, you are saying it is realistic that he would ask to out both, to prevent blocking each other... it just doesn't make sense.

Of course he

could

be vanilla, but he is the only other person to crumb FH, and it absolutely, most certainly, was a crumb. We know we are one and we have an idea on the other. Which means he cannot be.

E

Unless you are wrong on the other one. And why doesn't it make sense? If I was FH, I would certainly protect GG tonight, but I have no idea if the other FH would do so or not, which means you need both FH to out themselves (in case scum fakeclaims), then one FH can protect the other and the other FH can protect GG. The plan is meant to ensure that GG is protected.

p-edit: Ok, so because his reads match yours, and he is pushing someone, that means he's town? What if your reads are incorrect, and you are simply agreeing with scumreads on town?

It's about motivation. I'm asking you to consider the motivation to out both FHs. Assume all the possible scenarios: if he was VT, if he was a FH, and if he was scum.

Which is more likely: I'm wrong about everyone and sthar8 is scum, or we are both town and see things the same way? I lean towards the latter as to not insult myself.
If he was VT, he could be trying to save GG using what he considers the best possible strategy. If he was FH, he could be asking town to make sure everyone agreed with what he wanted to do (claim). If he was scum, then there's a fair chance GG is also scum and he just wants to get the FHs killed.
I think GG and sthar8 are town so I am not convinced of the last case.

Is this how either town-mollie or town-antihero would react? No. They would at least scrutinize that claim. Ask additional questions about the arguments for scum-Taylor that would remain unadressed despite that claim.

I thought they were town the whole time. Why would I scrutinize the claim?

Cough815Cough

[XScorpion]

To protect GG without having the faith healers block each other, presumably.

This also doesn't make sense from a FH point of view. If he is one of them, you are saying it is realistic that he would ask to out both, to prevent blocking each other... it just doesn't make sense.

Of course he

could

be vanilla, but he is the only other person to crumb FH, and it absolutely, most certainly, was a crumb. We know we are one and we have an idea on the other. Which means he cannot be.

E

Unless you are wrong on the other one. And why doesn't it make sense? If I was FH, I would certainly protect GG tonight, but I have no idea if the other FH would do so or not, which means you need both FH to out themselves (in case scum fakeclaims), then one FH can protect the other and the other FH can protect GG. The plan is meant to ensure that GG is protected.

I understand the reasons for the plan presented on the surface. And in a world without manipulative scum, that would be great. We are FH and did not wish to out ourselves. I'm pretty sure the other one doesn't want to either. But Sthar8 as a FH does? I don't think so. A real PR wouldn't put themselves in danger of being outed D1 simply to catch fake claims. On D1. Regarding protecting GG... whether there is a plan in place or not is not going to stop scum from targeting him, if he is indeed the cop. Mastin made his own intentions clear. I will follow his lead on whatever he decides is optimal for our target tonight.

As far as being wrong about the other one,

I don't think that you can completely understand what we see

. The difference in play between the two is stark.

We have been outed and have stated, in no uncertain terms, we will not be protecting grim tonight.

This is why it is hard to cooperate with you.

p-edit: Ok, so because his reads match yours, and he is pushing someone, that means he's town? What if your reads are incorrect, and you are simply agreeing with scumreads on town?

It's about motivation. I'm asking you to consider the motivation to out both FHs. Assume all the possible scenarios: if he was VT, if he was a FH, and if he was scum.

Which is more likely: I'm wrong about everyone and sthar8 is scum, or we are both town and see things the same way? I lean towards the latter as to not insult myself.

It is your prerogative to hold onto your reads with an iron grip to protect your ego. I don't think that is a good idea.

Which of my reads do you think I am entirely unjustified in holding on to?

If he was VT, he could be trying to save GG using what he considers the best possible strategy.

Do you believe that this is what most VTs would suggest? Why or why not? I know that Sthar8 is an excellent player. I don't believe he would suggest such a naïve plan as a VT.

Most VTs? No. But sthar8's attitude of coming up with the plan (i.e. as 'an excellent player', like you say) makes me think that there should be an exception.

If he was FH, he could be asking town to make sure everyone agreed with what he wanted to do (claim).

So, if he was a FH, you believe the most plausible reason he would ask to out the other FH is to see if they agreed? To what end? Why? Why would he seek approval to claim?

Plan doesn't work if all FHs are not on board with it.

If he was scum, then there's a fair chance GG is also scum and he just wants to get the FHs killed.

I don't think I understand this link. Why would Sthar8 being scum suggest grim being scum?

Why would sthar8 scum suggest this plan otherwise? If sthar8 is scum and GG isn't then it is in his interest to make sure no one is protecting GG so that GG will die tonight with 100% certainty rather than 50%. GG/sthar8 team makes sense because then they are basically getting the FHs to both out themselves and protect the wrong people (while the scum try to NK the actual cop).

I think GG and sthar8 are town so I am not convinced of the last case.

So you did not actually consider if Sthar8 could be scum, you just answered my questions to shut me up?

I considered if sthar8 is scum, but that only makes sense to me if GG is scum too, and I don't think that's the case.

[XScorpion]

Taylor the problem is that if you are scum and refuse to protect Grim then both of the real FHs will and he will die. Whereas if we tell you to protect Grim and he dies then probability suggests you are scum, because otherwise scum have to not only choose to lynch grim but also do so knowing he is protected AND win the coin flip for protection.

[XScorpion]

By lynch I mean nightkill

[XScorpion]

^ What do the fonts mean

[XScorpion]

Town
{

Guyett

,

shos

, TSO}

Scum
{

Taylor

,

Grim, Pecan

,

Helium

}

Null
{XScorpion, N64Lord, Blueberry, Paschendale, sthar8}

This is what I'm working with so far.

If these are your reads then you should definitely agree that Taylor should protect Grim because that way the two real FH's will protect actual town. What do you say?

[XScorpion]

The idea of making the scum play a wifom guessing game is fucking stupid when we should be ENSURING GRIM IS PROTECTED.
I am on helium's side here.

[XScorpion]

Either you believe us, and are willing to work with us, or you don't and you're not.

False dichotomy.

[XScorpion]

YOU because you refuse to protect grim!

[XScorpion]

YOU because you refuse to protect grim!

You don't want to work with us because you disagree with a choice that we have made and explained. And you don't agree with our choice, because

you think

it's wrong,

because you do not understand why we think our plan works better.

Is that right?

ETL

Yes.

[XScorpion]

Because you're being stubborn about protecting grim?

[XScorpion]

Well I think you are wrong and helium is right.

[XScorpion]

If it did, I'd already be on your wagon. That doesn't make you right, or clear you as town.

[XScorpion]

If we aren't scum, then what are we? There is only one alternative.

Wrong, of course. Perhaps you are scum after all. It's hard for me to trust you with you refusing to protect grim, which is the pro-town play here. Why should I listen to you if you won't listen to anyone else?

[XScorpion]

Hey other Faith Healer, we are going to protect grim so you don't have to. - tells scum: dont touch grim and dont touch Taylor, get guaranteed kill elsewhere

This is 100% wrong. The other faith healer can protect whoever they think is best to protect. Not only that, but this gives Grim the best chance of surviving to tomorrow, which is optimal for town.

[XScorpion]

I don't agree. The end result is essentially the same whether we target him or the other FH targets him.

Also false. If you are scum, then this basically guarantees grim has no protection and thus minimizes his survival chances.

[XScorpion]

NO ONE ELSE KNOWS THAT

[XScorpion]

I refuse to trust you because you refuse to act in the town's best interest.

[XScorpion]

I'm not convinced pasch is scum because I think he has good arguments which you still refuse to listen to. Even though he was mistaken about faith healers being 50% chance, I still agree with him in that you should protect grim because it only tells the scum who you are targeting and not the other faith healer(s). I'd have more to say on this but you have already given up on discussing it.
Guyett's attack on pasch is fucking terrible and just further convinces me I am voting the right person.

[XScorpion]

I'd take up his arguments in his place but you've already given up on discussing them so why on earth should I agree with you?

[XScorpion]

I'm not asking you to take up his arguments. I'm asking you to

look at the logical disparity in his arguments, the sheer lack of coherence!

Just because a monkey can push the button doesn't mean they can explain why. Pasch is simply vomiting the same shit from the loudest people in here. He has not updated his reads. He has not discussed his reads with anyone. He has not attempted to engage anyone. He has not attempted to actually scum hunt in any way whatsoever.

Look at his ISO!

ETL

You say this as though he is literally the only player who is guilty of this. Did I not spend a huge chunk of the day arguing shos was scum for not scumhunting? Where were you then? Oh wait, being wishy-washy ALL GAME. Yet now you are 100% convinced Pasch is scum for the same reasons? Okay.

He has not updated his reads.

Pasch's updated reads (sort of)

:/

[XScorpion]

Did you compare them? Did you gauge them with where the reads of the rest of the town were going? Did you notice the timing?

Elaborate.

Where was I when shos was being wagoned? Discussing with mastin about how I thought shos was scum and he thought shos was town. That's where. I no longer believe he is scum.

ETL

Again, don't agree.

shos has actually tried to engage people, scorp...

ETL

After I pressured him non-stop for not scumhunting. Whether or not he was doing it to actually gauge who is scum/town or because he wanted to make you think he was scumhunting is pretty unclear.

[XScorpion]

I don't disagree, but how does this not apply to shos, guyett, majiffy, or anyone else?

[XScorpion]

I don't agree with your reads on shos or guyett. The sthar8 read is not relevant to anyone else until you have flipped, in which case if you are indeed FH then we can push it. Agree about Majiffy.
From what you say it sounds like Guyett deserves to be lynched regardless, since he is going to be anti-town at best and scum at worst. Pasch may be scum but I think Guyett is a much better lynch.

[XScorpion]

You are presuming Guyett is town. I am not convinced of this. I also would prefer that a mislynch be on someone who is anti-town than someone who is contributing. The deadline is approaching and a Pasch lynch seems very improbable. It is entirely unacceptable for us to fail to lynch someone today.

[XScorpion]

Good thing I don't think Guyett's town.

[XScorpion]

The difference is, one gives the scum information that they need to make better nightkills ("We're protecting Grim"), while the other leaves the scum guessing as to what to do ("We're not protecting Grim").

The idea of making the scum play a wifom guessing game is fucking stupid when we should be ENSURING GRIM IS PROTECTED.
I am on helium's side here.

Whatever clearly you won't listen to me so

other FH please protect grim tonight because Taylor refuses to

and if we lynch a FH then Taylor you damned well better protect grim or we lynch you tomorrow.

[XScorpion]

you haven't been lynched yet so stop being a whiney bitch

I'm happy lynching either you or jiffy at this stage

I'm slightly less happy with being todays lynch but it's a deadline lynch and I'm a VT so its no big loss....
plus I can shove it in TSO, shos's and scorps face when I'm flipped. That alone would make my lynch worthwhile

There's nothing to shove in my face; you haven't even TRIED to convince me you are town. In fact, you really haven't contributed to the game much at all lately. If you are a mislynch then I am going to shrug my shoulders and carry on with the game. If I'm right then I will mock you for being obvscum.

[XScorpion]

^^^ anyone against a stahr lynch? I'd actually prefer it to guyett

^^^ anyone against a shos lynch? I'd actually prefer it to guyett

[XScorpion]

Grim, like all other town players, is ironically more protected by the wifom guessing game than by having an explicit target laid out. I explained this already. Scum don't like guessing. Scum like certainties. Scum like to have guarantees.

If I was scum and GG was actually the cop I would be totally up for just attempting to night kill him every night regardless of whether I knew he was protected or not. Am I the only person who would think this?

[XScorpion]

I have a sickening feeling that the number of lurkers in this game is going to cause us to have a no lynch.

[XScorpion]

Vote for someone who currently has no votes and leave the currently biggest wagon, yes that's the best way to ensure a lynch today.

[XScorpion]

helium come and vote guyett plz

[XScorpion]

Who else would vote majiffy? I'm not going to switch if it is a waste of time and not going to lead to a lynch.
TSO, Shos, Helium, who else?

[XScorpion]

TSO I agree but I'm not going to switch to majiffy unless you do too.

[XScorpion]

Ah fuck it.
This isn't as good as a guyett lynch but it's more likely to go through and it's certainly better than a helium lynch.
VOTE: majiffy
Guyett get your ass on this wagon now.

[XScorpion]

I just killed it.

[XScorpion]

Shos Taylor plz come end the day.

[XScorpion]

Shos (2): Blueberry, sthar8
Guyett (2): pieceofpecanpie, shos,
Paschendale (1): Taylor
helium-3 (3): Majiffy, Paschendale, Grimgroove
Majiffy (5): helium-3, XScorpion, N64Lord, Guyett, TSO
Not Voting (0): none

[XScorpion]

'mollie is avoiding me' =/= plenty of sound reasons.

[XScorpion]

I would be glad to lynch blueberry but I am even less confident that such a lynch would go through.

[XScorpion]

'mollie is avoiding me' =/= plenty of sound reasons.

Uh... Yeah, it kind of is.

I grok you aren't privy to the relationship Mollie and I have in this game, but if there's a disconnect, there's usually a reason

why

.

Beyond that, I've provided other reasons Helium is scum in my more recent posts, including pointing out falsities and lies, such as saying I'm active lurking.

No, it's one reason.
No, I am not. Why should I care?
You say 'reasons' and 'falsities' and 'lies' and 'recent posts' when I can literally only find one instance of any of these things.

[XScorpion]

Is one instance not enough? How many lies does one need before they're a liar? What are they pushing me for? What are you voting me for?

That is not the point at all. The point is that you are overexaggerating your evidence on helium by saying helium is lying multiple times when there was actually only one instance of this.
I am voting you because your slot has not provided sufficient reason for me to believe you are town. I would rather you be lynched than a townread (helium).

[XScorpion]

That is not the point at all. The point is that you are overexaggerating your evidence on helium by saying helium is lying multiple times when there was actually only one instance of this.

They continue to lie, avoid, and misrep. I recommend you go ISO myself and Helium together and read

carefully.

I am voting you because your slot has not provided sufficient reason for me to believe you are town. I would rather you be lynched than a townread (helium).

Do you not feel I have provided sufficient evidence for you to disbelieve your townread in Helium? Like the lie you admit you have seen?

The continuance is irrelevant to my point. You still overexaggerated your evidence. This is at least as dishonest than helium's 'lie' about you active lurking, which is subjective at best. No, you have not provided sufficient evidence.

[XScorpion]

I would prefer a helium investigation.

[XScorpion]

helium who is scum?
I want to lynch pasch, sthar8, or blueberry today.
VOTE: blueberry for now.

[XScorpion]

Oh maestro is blueberry.
VOTE: maestro

[XScorpion]

antihero

[XScorpion]

but he's scum why don't you just kill him

[XScorpion]

It felt really good though

[XScorpion]

As weird as it sounds I agree with Guyett on his last two posts.