Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[votato]

first

VOTE: votato

yeah same, me too.
VOTE: votato

FoS on lilith cuz peer pressure is bad.

[votato]

first

VOTE: votato

yeah same, me too.
VOTE: votato

FoS on lilith cuz peer pressure is bad.

I like ur hat and ur vote.

ill consider u town for today.

i like ur hat qt

All challenges must be in BOLD, or they shall not count.

What does this mean? is a challenge different to a vote?


regardless, I'm first too
VOTE: votato

the next rule mentions votes like normal. im so close to getting "chosen" on page 1!!! yay!

[votato]

i level up turn into a real boy, and shoot laser beams out of my eyes at all the scum

[votato]

Hmmmm, maybe it's in here for a reason, like fine print in the terms and conditions that gives you a million dollars if you actually read it

Challenge: Firebringer

LETS GO BRO

u just activated my trap card.

Spoiler:

you just activated my trap card

[votato]

who can say, really

[votato]

the fact that firebringer hasnt claimed scum yet gives me a hard town read on him....

also, are we to believe that scum dont have a PT in this game? it mentions a PT in the rules during the night phase, but thats the only place i found it mentioned. the rules have already been noted as flawed tho. also, I'm getting dangerously close to not getting page 1 lynched. step it up!

[votato]

well im voting for me too. if im town then im voting for a known townie. thats pretty scummy. if im scum im voting for a known scummer, thats pretty townish. i think we should probably lynch me just to gather some info.

[votato]

yoink

[votato]

Are 5.5 roses and 5.5 guns optimal

I feel like I'm missing something

Youre missing the ability to reason logically. UNVOTE: votatoVOTE: farside only scum would be such humorless illogical people.

[votato]

Because he has a gun, clearly

if he has a gun he must be scum. if he were a town gun, there'd be four town guns.

[votato]

this is my main. im new here. hellow!

[votato]

I have one or two thoughts about it, they do seem kind of familiar.

I will state now that I am also, obviously, an alt, but good luck figuring it out. As I’m playing on this for the purpose of remaining anonymous this is the only reference I’ll make to it and will not be indulging any speculation that may or may not occur regarding my main.

youre the second coming of our lord and savior jesus christ?

[votato]

fair enough. I've taken a peek at a few recent games to give me some idea of what to expect. from what I've gleaned its basically several hundred pages of shitposting followed by random voting and whoever is the best at making up a compelling story controls the vote. you just hope that the storytellers are on your team.

[votato]

dont be so sure. i know enough to know that something like that could get your town-lynch-x-wing stuck in a nice wifom swamp if im scum.

[votato]

Also, not persuaded that votato isn’t an alt who doesn’t want to admit to being an alt.

you might want to look into the other games im currently playing. cant provide details cuz im not sure how the rule about discussing ongoing games works. but i think i can say that im playing other games.

remember how the rules mentioned challenges?

[votato]

what even prompted linking previous games? did i miss something?

at this point im not sure if we are still in RVS... things seem a bit serious, but still pretty shitposty. especially firebringer.

chkflip is acting weird tho... gets some pressure and then immediately jumps on the biggest bw and accuses someone of bussing.

[votato]

forcibly aligned

This sounds......... ominous

that sounds like a good time is what it sounds like.

@mod

Are 5.5 roses and 5.5 guns optimal

I feel like I'm missing something

Youre missing the ability to reason logically. UNVOTE: votatoVOTE: farside only scum would be such humorless illogical people.

[votato]

Actually, chkflip is doing the non-RVS version of my vote on farside, so ill UNVOTE: farside and instead VOTE: chkflip. I'm probably wrong, because I automatically read twats as scum, but im getting a pretty big clue here

Spoiler:

[votato]

fair enough. I've taken a peek at a few recent games to give me some idea of what to expect. from what I've gleaned its basically several hundred pages of shitposting followed by random voting and whoever is the best at making up a compelling story controls the vote. you just hope that the storytellers are on your team.

my life is a lie, but not that statement

[votato]

Why am I a good lynch if town, exactly?

also, are we to believe that scum dont have a PT in this game? it mentions a PT in the rules during the night phase, but thats the only place i found it mentioned. the rules have already been noted as flawed tho. also, I'm getting dangerously close to not getting page 1 lynched. step it up!

Ping one.

well im voting for me too. if im town then im voting for a known townie. thats pretty scummy. if im scum im voting for a known scummer, thats pretty townish. i think we should probably lynch me just to gather some info.

Ping two, even though it's pretty obv a joke, struck a chord with me.

VOTE: votato

Obvscum

Push for leaving RVS on p2 which, while I appreciate it, sits strangely with me given that it's on an RVS wagon.

you seem to be more concerned about the wagon on me than i am... why? its jokes, bruh. what exactly is pinging you about me?

[votato]

well obviously its normal, but this is a theme game, so I thought things might be different? it was a genuine question, and should probably be read as NAI. or it was an intentional townslip...

[votato]

Because if my vote is going to be by itself (the two highest wagons that aren't me don't really appeal to me rn, i.e. I don't see the case), it's not going to hang out on a new player you lot are giving a free pass to after they just openly admitted to purposefully trying to townslip. It's not a hill I feel like dying on, sorry.

The initial gut ping from ABR hasn't been swayed by their recent posting. I understand where you're coming from re: my bus theory only being plausible if vot is scum and, therefore, that's where my vote should be; however, to reiterate, if I'm going to solo vote I'm not solo voting there.

i didnt say it was an intentional townslip. i just said maybe. as in scum!votato did it as a townslip. I do have a reason for saying it beyond curiosity. No, I'm not scum claiming.

@paragon my wagon came purely in RVS. they werent serious votes. there was no case, hence nothing to say about it. i dont see brushing off an RVS wagon as AI. if someone has a serious case against me Im happy to address it.

[votato]

ok. I read ABR's iso. the full extent of the case is "obvscum." what do you want me to say? no? I dont think much of the push either way. I dont know him well enough to know tells. id say its very much NAI. I said a thing that could go either way. with more context maybe ill make more sense, or maybe his case will. towncred for helping move out of rvs i guess, but need to see more substance from him to really form an opinion.


chkflips case seems more serious in that he seems to actually mean it rather than just putting a quasi-serious vote out there to get the game moving. Thats also why i think its a lot worse. It seems to me to be a very bad scum strat to start bussing that early. Why call attention to your scumbuddy without any need to, and then why call attention to yourself by getting such an early read on a nothing case once the buddy flips scum? fluff - ok granted, its early game, shitposting seems to be acceptable, just look at firebringer. rulebreaking doesnt seem to be AI. in 54, chk votes me, which is just after this:

Spoiler:

Really love the flavor and detail in the role PMs.

My role PM is town and contains no flavour or detail. Yours does. Ipso facto, you are scum VOTE: chkflip

EZ game, folks.

. getting scumread and immediately pushing another wagon to deflect is scummy. then we have a few more posts of being pretty defensive and really digging for reasons to lynch me and ABR. finally the last couple posts actually contribute to gamesolving by discussing the whole massclaim thing.

Overall, I give this a SL, tunneling that hard that early seems like a bad play. That's why I asked the question about the PT anyway. Its great bait for scum to make a shitpush on. And I was actually wondering, but that's why I asked in the way I did. Being an ass and doing an early shitpush and making pre-flip associations he knows he can back out of if he really does get me lynched seems pretty scummy. But again, its too early to make a really serious push imo. And my reads are probably shit anyway.


As for the massclaim, best case scenario we get a 1/4 chance of hitting scum lynching a claimed gun. That's nice and all, but 1/4=4/16, while if we lynched completely randomly that would give us 21.4% odds of lynching scum. Such a small improvement is not worth telling the mafia that much info about the town. Plus if we lynch guns we start lynching the only night actions the town actually has. And if it goes wrong, we wind up losing 3 townies plus the people lost to night action for one scum. thats a pretty terrible trade. it might be worth reevaluating the mass-claim after lynching a scum, but this is a terrible awful idea right now. scum points to anyone who supports it, and extra scum points to Knightmare for not reading the thread.

[votato]

As for the massclaim, best case scenario we get a 1/4 chance of hitting scum lynching a claimed gun. That's nice and all, but 1/4=4/16, while if we lynched completely randomly that would give us 21.4% odds of lynching scum. Such a small improvement is not worth telling the mafia that much info about the town. Plus if we lynch guns we start lynching the only night actions the town actually has. And if it goes wrong, we wind up losing 3 townies plus the people lost to night action for one scum. thats a pretty terrible trade. it might be worth reevaluating the mass-claim after lynching a scum, but this is a terrible awful idea right now. scum points to anyone who supports it, and extra scum points to Knightmare for not reading the thread.

That's not the best case scenario. You make no sense.

you're right, scum could make a play for a scenario we all agree is worse for them. its possible. but realistically, they split 1/2 gun/rose. then if nothing goes wrong its 1/4 chance of hitting scum. if things get messed up because a townie fakeclaims or night actions mess things up, the odds go downhill. Plus we are hoping that the guns get their shots off night 1, which we cant count on.

pedit: yeah i was gonna do fractions but 3/14 isnt nice so had to swap. but like... thats what youre upset about?

[votato]

rather than speculating about what night people would pick, lets look at the past iterations of this game. lots of town guns picked nights other than 1. some picked as late as night 4.

[votato]

I agree that knightmare is probably town and the push on him is probably scummy going for lhf. I am inclined to think that people who continue to talk about the massclaim instead of gamesolving are a bit scummy.

[votato]

Is nitpick ad infinitum a scumtell, or is ss always that way?

[votato]

Because your attack was poor.

Consider it free coaching.

ah yes the guy with 3 completed games is now an expert and offering free coaching. Where can I sign up? I really wanna lynch you just because the game would be more fun without you.

[votato]

well except that you werent mafia in any of those games, so it really doesnt show much. And I'm happy to move my vote when a better wagon comes along, I'm just saying your shitty attitude means i get to have a bit of extra fun tunneling you.

[votato]

didnt one of them say V/LA for the weekend?

[votato]

i don't like that iconeum finally shows up and doesn't contribute anything. I was gonna swap my vote but then chk gives that super weak abr vote, so it gets to stay

[votato]

i re-read chkflip's iso, and yeah, there's probably not a lot there other than a shitty personality. UNVOTE: chkflip
i'll stand by my comment that ico isn't saying much. A bunch of social posts, a bunch of mech talk, some sheeping, but not much in the way of contributing to gamesolving. VOTE: iconeum

The newbie card is basically the only card I have, so please forgive me for playing it. By becoming LHF at least the game moves forward with a real wagon and there's some interesting interaction to analyze. For example, who was pushing both for KM and myself? Going for two separate LHF wagons would be interesting.

[votato]

after a quick look through the thread, the set of people on both my and KM's wagons is: {Chkflip}

[votato]

Knightmare is probably the other wagon, tbf. Or me.

KM isnt a good wagon. Its basically the same wagon as mine, but under different circumstances. I SL you because you want these two wagons, both of which are LHF, but beyond that you seem to be genuinely trying to gamesolve, so I'm not yet sure what to make of you.
ABR, if you want another wagon, why not make a case against someone? Maybe its because I'm new but I'm having trouble coming up with cases against anyone. I SL ico and chk, but its a lot of gut.

FWIW I TL DonCorleone, paragon, KM, vecna, and eyestott, with nulls on everyone else.

[votato]

I don't really understand why people are TRing Lilith either tbh. Is it just because she's got the most posts or?

this

[votato]

i played a handful of games on another site more than a decade ago. I was not by any means an expert, and probably not even good. I'm starting totally fresh in terms of game-knowledge, effectively. All of the knowledge I have is from reading the wiki and from the one game I started prior to this one (again, still ongoing, can't really say much).
I thought I was having some interactions with people, but if you disagree, sorry - I'll try to step it up. I wanted to throw a few thoughts out there and see how people reacted. I'll contribute more later on but mostly want to read for now and get a feel for the game. I have been contributing my thoughts as I have them, but I'm not yet confident in any of my reads. I feel like its still pretty early anyway to have people locked in as either town or scum. As the game progresses I'll probably get more vocal and more confident.

The reason i dont see KM as scummy for talking about the massclaim is that KM is new. I also have some experience with KM to go off of, and don't read him as scum. The rest of you should know better than beating a dead horse about the massclaim.

[votato]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

[votato]

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

[votato]

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

I'm leaning towards farside being scum, and using this and other posts to try and buddy with town!lilith

[votato]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

What does this mean?

the three of them are having an interaction I'm reading as being partially forced. I don't think its just a disagreement between townies. I think one is probably scum. Too much infighting, not enough attempt to collaborate. Especially from farside, again strengthening my growing SR on her. the read on their interaction is gut, I can't really point to anything specific in the text yet.

[votato]

So are you saying votato’s post was genuine based on his tone or based on probability?

All reads are based on probability, so that one.

SS, I’m going to attempt to put words to my scumread on you now.

This entire game thus far I feel like you’ve approached others with a purely mechanical engagement, which prevents me from reading you as a person. In your back and forths with me you’re bringing up probability, you’re asking me rhetorical questions, you’re questioning my reasoning, but have yet to reveal what YOU are thinking or feeling about the players we’re talking about. It feels like you’re questioning people just to question people and it isn’t backed by your personal perspectives or you trying to follow up on your own reads. It’s like there’s a disconnect between you as a person and the posts you’re making. There were maybe a couple posts where I saw a glimpse of the person, but not nearly enough to change my read.

So that about sums it up.

could you quote a few posts that you feel are particularly mechanical? I'm reading but will respond properly to questions asked of me later on.

[votato]

Spoiler:

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

buddying lilith. not much on its own, but first instance of buddying/sheeping.

Spoiler:

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

I addressed some of this in 749. why is ico LHF? does being inactive make you low-hanging fruit? if so, wasnt it also scummy when you called for a wagon on inactives? how is it scummy to have certain people as town-leans? you apparently town-read paragon at the time, so why was it unacceptable for me to do the same? seems forced. Now that we've established that I'm new, can you coddle me again?

Spoiler:

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

again, paragon as a town-read. And I still dont like having such a long scum-list and not stating reasons for your reads. I see that if scum know who the locktowns are, they know who to target. But doesn't it help even more if town forces everyone, including scum, to publicly state their reads and reasoning so we can see inconsistencies and logical flaws? By hiding your reasoning for your reads you are helping scum fly under the radar. But i guess thats more a mechanics question than an accusation. I'm new here, so if people tell me thats the way to go I guess I'll listen.

Spoiler:

Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?

VOTE: Iconeum

Lossing town points more and more.

Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.

Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,

That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.

Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.

Farside, can you explain your thought progression from “votato is a newb stop pushing him for a townslip he wouldn’t have known to make as a newb” to this post?

I never played with the guy and I thought he was newb in my head. Looking back and rereading I realized I missed that he played before and how he postured himself to know how to fake a town slip.

In short. I got tunneled onto other things.

losing points more and more for not being on the wagon you want? what, its scummy to disagree with you? Look at Ico's ISO. He really hasn't explained anything. It still seems like maybe his vote on me was a misread of someone else's post. In context, it seems like youre really reaching for things to latch onto to push this case. You're trying to look for reasons why im not new. But even not being new isn't scummy.

Spoiler:

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

You seem pretty focused on me, to the point where mostly what you're currently saying about stuff other than my wagon is that people should be commenting on my wagon. Really forcing the issue of getting people to latch onto my wagon. why?

Spoiler:

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all.

I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

I bolded the part you missed.
I don't talk about town reads. Anyone not listed is either town or light town. I don't put a preference in that category because I would rather not inform scum whom I find to be the most town and have them dead.
It's cute that you want to call something a scum tell but it isn't. For me it's NAI. I would do it as either alignment because as scum it leaves options, for town I'm still trying to wade through those I can't read and want more information to determine if they are scum or town.

I mentioned my thoughts about your reads. not stating your reasons allows you to fence-sit and be wishy-washy. Im not a psychologist, but its interesting that you mentioned your scum reasoning first, like it was at the forefront of your mind. Perhaps someone more versed in psychology can comment.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Farside

u have my attention on this bad vote.

<3

Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.

any chance i can have until the end of the day, or at least until close of business? again, this seems like really forcing the issue when I said I'd get back to it.

[votato]

i realize this isnt exactly what I initially said I thought, but on further reflection and looking at farside's ISO, this is where my suspicions led me. dont know what to make of paragon asking for a replacement tho

[votato]

i realize this isnt exactly what I initially said I thought, but on further reflection and looking at farside's ISO, this is where my suspicions led me. dont know what to make of paragon asking for a replacement tho

[votato]

also DonCorleone's avatar isnt wearing a hat. Talk about a scum tell.

[votato]

o. mine is a horn. definitely not a hat.

[votato]

what string? theres no string. its not a carrot. i didnt get it at the grocery store. its a horn. im a unicorn. you can trust me.

[votato]

Ico is town.

whys that?

[votato]

I dont like any of the wagons currently. I don't particularly like eyestott's iso, but it reads not like scum so much as confused town. Advocating for the massclaim and then attacking KM for doing the same reads to me as a townie who changed his mind. It seems like a bad scumplay to attract attention like that. KM is again just new. I have some experience with KM and read him as town. If myself/eyestott/KM are basically policy lynches then maybe? but seems like kind of a waste. if it really is bad for me not to be on a wagon, ill UNVOTE: ico and VOTE: farside. I guess I don't see why we need to be pushing so hard at anyone yet.

[votato]

I will tldr my reason my vote on votato hasn't changed is the a few reason he called me scummy multiple player have done the same thing. 1) making a scum list with players listed as a scum read.
2) hiding the reason for my reads, again many have done this and he isnt calling them out to explain.
3) using strawman arguments to make a case.
In short his whole scum read is based on nothing more then omgus and things he hasnt called anyone out on doing the same fucking thing.

I'm not ignoring you. I don't feel like you properly addressed most of the things I said, but no one else seems to see what I saw. I'm thinking that our interaction is probably counterproductive right now. I'd rather not get tunneled on you, so I'm going to sit back and let people who are more competent and confident do their thing. I'm going to leave my vote on you until i find a better place to put it, but I'm not going to be aggressive either, at least for now. I definitely don't like any of the current wagons though.

[votato]

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] - Knightmare491, SirCakez, Firebringer, Albert B. Rampage
Knightmare491 [2] - eyestott, DonCorleone
votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22, Iconeum, chkflip
Iconeum [1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna
Firebringer [1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Votato has been a wagon almost all game, and I think they've made some pretty genuine posting. It also has 2 people I'm fine with voting at the moment. Shockingly, they're mostly townread (Lilth and farside) so this'll at least get someone to start talking. As for Eye, I need to go iso them because I'm pretty sure I skipped the point of the game where they posted at all.

could you elaborate on lilith and farside? not that i particularly disagree.

[votato]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

it seems like you're really trying hard here to be open minded and reasoned, and not at all tunneling.

[votato]

That was a great game the bp was amazing ah, fond memories fun game.What were you scumreading about my slot before this Vecna?

attempt to pocket?

[votato]

You're saying MariaR is lazyscummy because she thinks Lillith is scum and I am town, and the evidence you presented was that I publicly told Lillith our reads would be aligned which you thought was me giving Lillith my vote.

I'm questing her calling you gun ho for your iso, when the majority of your game play is following lillith's lead. That was why I thought her catch up was a joke and a lie.

Lillith is clearly following my lead, at least until now. She presently seems to be riding the farside/vecna train.

And for the last time woman GUNG HO, stop disrespecting my Texan waifu gun ho.

is she? I don't think she's going after farside, she earlier said she was townreading farside didnt she?

[votato]

You're saying MariaR is lazyscummy because she thinks Lillith is scum and I am town, and the evidence you presented was that I publicly told Lillith our reads would be aligned which you thought was me giving Lillith my vote.

I'm questing her calling you gun ho for your iso, when the majority of your game play is following lillith's lead. That was why I thought her catch up was a joke and a lie.

Lillith is clearly following my lead, at least until now. She presently seems to be riding the farside/vecna train.

And for the last time woman GUNG HO, stop disrespecting my Texan waifu gun ho.

that is 100% not true, you're voting farside and she's my strongest townread?

why is it so important to you that you arent sheeping ABR though?

[votato]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

it seems like you're really trying hard here to be open minded and reasoned, and not at all tunneling.

I tunnel till someone tells me that my read makes no sense or this player does X typically.
Or if I'm not sure about my reads on a player.

but it doesnt explain why you started tunneling. also earlier, you said you were pretty clear that you weren't tunneling me, so what changed?

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?

[votato]

Your last post here it made me think and step back.
You still believe despite the number of inconsistencies I pointed out that you think I'm scum. No one stepped up to take your side. No one said hey this kid is trying and although it's bad, blah, blah, blah.
You looked like a lone solider battling a dragon you had no right to try to go against in any realm.

so you stepped back, decided you were tunneling, and your reaction was to tunnel even harder? that seems backwards. Like i said in this post, I don't feel like you addressed my points, but I dropped it since no one else seemed to scumread you. Now people do, but perhaps for different reasons. Me stating a bad case for my read does not mean the underlying gut read was wrong. Yes you're better at this than me. Bravo. Maybe I'll learn. But its not a good look for you to talk like that. Kinda rude, but whatever. Rudeness isnt necessarily AI.

Well that and I figured, you know i could take care of a problem later.

are you softclaiming gun? why would i know that?

[votato]

Your last post here it made me think and step back.
You still believe despite the number of inconsistencies I pointed out that you think I'm scum. No one stepped up to take your side. No one said hey this kid is trying and although it's bad, blah, blah, blah.
You looked like a lone solider battling a dragon you had no right to try to go against in any realm.

so you stepped back, decided you were tunneling, and your reaction was to tunnel even harder? that seems backwards. Like i said in this post, I don't feel like you addressed my points, but I dropped it since no one else seemed to scumread you. Now people do, but perhaps for different reasons. Me stating a bad case for my read does not mean the underlying gut read was wrong. Yes you're better at this than me. Bravo. Maybe I'll learn. But its not a good look for you to talk like that. Kinda rude, but whatever. Rudeness isnt necessarily AI.

Well that and I figured, you know i could take care of a problem later.

are you softclaiming gun? why would i know that?

I did respond to you post. How did i not respond to it?
Like i replied directly to the post in a post i made.

bananas are blue.

[votato]

see how i responded to your post without addressing any of your arguments? I shouldn't go around saying your arguments have been forever vanquished if you dont explain that bananas arent blue.

[votato]

Spoiler: S_S vs Lil

Lilith, I have a bad feeling that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

nope

lynch this please

Why does no-one have any interest in whether or not votato is town faking lack of knowledge of scum having a pt or scum faking it?

What am I, chopped liver?

Yes

The downside of a gut read is that it's impossible to engage.

I’ll get back to you once my read is further substantiated on something you can defend then.

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

As you can see it starts off really aggressive and then a sudden stop randomly. 'Huh I'm tunneling' See that'd be cool if that thought was genuine but Farsade made that post about 30 posts before that and lilith was still posting after

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

See? So did that thought randomly hit her brain or something? She was posting in live time so you can see how fake that thought process and how timed it is. The aggro on S_S is for the sake of getting a townread exaggerated. Voting Chk who was suddenly getting a wagon going. It's called opportunistic vote hopping.

Spoiler: Examples of 'anger'

Tbh I don’t trust ABR reads whatsoever so that basically means votato is conftown for me

This was originally sarcastic but whatever I plan to ignore all ABR reads

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Revising an opinion when you get new information, like, oh, actual confirmation from ABR that it was a legitimate vote, is called backtracking now?

Yeah you’ve taken everything that’s happened in this thread incredibly seriously

One post happened to actually be serious

So?

Sure she's calling some of her posts 'not serious' when it gets talked about but uh, excuses anyone?

Spoiler: not pressued

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

Lilith, why did Faraide convince you that you were tunneling rather than correct about an early gut scumread?

I actually already dropped my SS push in 116 on the basis that all I had at that time was a read I couldn't explain to anyone, which evidently is not a very convincing case for building a wagon. 163 is the next time I'm in the thread and I explicitly moved on to interacting with a different wagon there. I'm not saying my scumread is wrong because I still have that read, but with farside calling me out I realized that pushing my read without evidence was not going to be productive so I decided to move somewhere else and revisit my SS read later.

whoa, it's not Faraide's fault he got dragged into this!

oh. Sorry Faraide

When people aren't disagreeing or pressing her she's back to go lucky and casual. With farside her 'top townread' she's extremely nod nod happy all the time. I just don't think this is how someone would act in a game of mafia

I can keep going but you get my point. You can be all happy with your townreads. You can be all 'grr' with your scumreads. But when you overdo your emotions to try and get an advantage on the gamestate? That's where we got an issue.

Anyone want points for telling me what is wrong with this post?

not enough unicorns?

[votato]

Spoiler: S_S vs Lil

Lilith, I have a bad feeling that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

nope

lynch this please

Why does no-one have any interest in whether or not votato is town faking lack of knowledge of scum having a pt or scum faking it?

What am I, chopped liver?

Yes

The downside of a gut read is that it's impossible to engage.

I’ll get back to you once my read is further substantiated on something you can defend then.

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

As you can see it starts off really aggressive and then a sudden stop randomly. 'Huh I'm tunneling' See that'd be cool if that thought was genuine but Farsade made that post about 30 posts before that and lilith was still posting after

Don't talk about ongoing games votato.

Those slips are faker than pro wrestling wtf.

More votes on this will get you into my goodwill.
Also lilith, less tunneling. Ss is at least responding and trying to engage.
Unlike chk who is poking with unless garbage.

See? So did that thought randomly hit her brain or something? She was posting in live time so you can see how fake that thought process and how timed it is. The aggro on S_S is for the sake of getting a townread exaggerated. Voting Chk who was suddenly getting a wagon going. It's called opportunistic vote hopping.

Spoiler: Examples of 'anger'

Tbh I don’t trust ABR reads whatsoever so that basically means votato is conftown for me

This was originally sarcastic but whatever I plan to ignore all ABR reads

Hard and immediate backtrack noted.

Revising an opinion when you get new information, like, oh, actual confirmation from ABR that it was a legitimate vote, is called backtracking now?

Yeah you’ve taken everything that’s happened in this thread incredibly seriously

One post happened to actually be serious

So?

Sure she's calling some of her posts 'not serious' when it gets talked about but uh, excuses anyone?

Spoiler: not pressued

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

Lilith, why did Faraide convince you that you were tunneling rather than correct about an early gut scumread?

I actually already dropped my SS push in 116 on the basis that all I had at that time was a read I couldn't explain to anyone, which evidently is not a very convincing case for building a wagon. 163 is the next time I'm in the thread and I explicitly moved on to interacting with a different wagon there. I'm not saying my scumread is wrong because I still have that read, but with farside calling me out I realized that pushing my read without evidence was not going to be productive so I decided to move somewhere else and revisit my SS read later.

whoa, it's not Faraide's fault he got dragged into this!

oh. Sorry Faraide

When people aren't disagreeing or pressing her she's back to go lucky and casual. With farside her 'top townread' she's extremely nod nod happy all the time. I just don't think this is how someone would act in a game of mafia

I can keep going but you get my point. You can be all happy with your townreads. You can be all 'grr' with your scumreads. But when you overdo your emotions to try and get an advantage on the gamestate? That's where we got an issue.

Anyone want points for telling me what is wrong with this post?

not enough unicorns?

Do you see mariah's pov in the post?

im not saying there arent other issues. thats just the one that most obviously jumped out at me.

and I'll maybe address your other post at some later time if i feel it merits fleshing out. for now consider it dropped. Like I said, probably counterproductive. Dropped =/= you're conftown.

[votato]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I dislike how farside is treating/talking to my slot like it's already scum instead of trying to ya know. Just talk normally but that can just be a dif in playstyle and annoyance more than anything else.
pedit: It makes me want to wagon Vecna even more!

I'm sorry you rolled scum. If you were town I would be really nice and try to see your pov but so far everything you posted look made up and vague.
Thank you for replacing. Much love to you for doing that.

it seems like you're really trying hard here to be open minded and reasoned, and not at all tunneling.

Why do you take issue with this but don't take issue when maria basically does the same thing to me?

i didnt say i don't take issue with Maria's approach. But right now I feel that there are two people being unfair to her, while she's only one person being unfair back. And she seems to be more measured in her approach than farside at the moment. Its a question of degree.

[votato]

Where do you see someone else being unfair to Maria?

you're ganging up on her a bit. your posts by themselves are mostly fair, but i think maria is right to some extent about you being aggressive and emotional. these made me roll my eyes for example:

.... am I not allowed to have emotions while playing mafia now?

Okay, is this better: you're calling me fake for playing emotionally

mostly i think all three of you should step away for a few hours and do some introspection.

[votato]

it seems like farside made some initial reads, and is now going full confirmation bias. farside, do you think you could go through some of maria's posts and try to explain them yourself from the lens of town!maria? could you do the same for me? I'm not sure I like all of Maria's posts that much either, but you seem to be giving her the same treatment you're giving me, which is: "you're scum. I've decided you're scum, and therefore you are. And since you're scum im going to read your posts as coming only from scum, and treat you like you're a bad person." You seem to be getting really ticked off, and maybe you've just tunneled really hard, but it seems more likely that you're putting on an angry facade for some AtE action. How dare we be scum?

I kinda like this post. I've felt the same way as town more than once.

Lilith SRs = ???
Maria might not be scum here?? I like her response to this push honestly. It's very reasoned and she seems legimitaely frustrated.
Meanwhile someone else on the sidelines is coming off hella scummy

VOTE: ABR

care to elaborate?

[votato]

eyetoast isnt a good wagon right now anyway cuz afk sitewide for a couple days it looks like... 60 hours or so afaik. might as well pressure an alive slot until he returns or is replaced

[votato]

You need to get out of my life and shut up.

Ruining all our lives and eating all our steak.

No but really the turnaround in play from, ahem, the unicorn is too telling for me to ignore my dude.

also i love how you were voting me cuz i was scummy/noob, and now you're voting me because im not scummy/noob? A) give it time, im still very new, im sure itll slip out like a boob at the superbowl. B) what kind of logic is that? are you just gonna vote for me whatever my posts look like?

[votato]

I think eyestoot and knightmare are aligned. Most likely both town, but possibly both scum therefore both pushing the same shit play and then distancing. Their conflict is a bit overdone. But still probably both town. I'm leaning towards Don c, lilith, and chk being scum. Im still Sl on farside. I could be talked into an ss, vecna, or maria wagon. I still maintain that yesterday's push on Maria was awful.

[votato]

How does progression lie is pushing an afk?

[votato]

I think there are better lynches. We still have time to not do a mislynch. How many interactions does etesoos even have?

[votato]

UNVOTE: farside. Either ABR is town, and then probably right, or scum, in which case this is a really bad play. Why would scum be this aggressive pushing 1 townie? Worst case ABR is town and wrong, but then we still probably find out tonight with NKs. this is wayyyy better than any of the other wagons, and even if DC flips town, this is real progression. I don't know any of you, but im leaning towards lilith being naive and town, with farside giving intentionally bad reads. Farside is in queue for at least one other game, so doesn't currently feel overwhelmed. If play is subpar for her, its probably on purpose. Vecna flip-flop is a bit odd, and vecna does some off somewhat as tyring to sheep-without-sheeping this game. He has been reading most people the same way town~majority does, iirc. VOTE: doncorleone

[votato]

UNVOTE: farside. Either ABR is town, and then probably right, or scum, in which case this is a really bad play. Why would scum be this aggressive pushing 1 townie? Worst case ABR is town and wrong, but then we still probably find out tonight with NKs. this is wayyyy better than any of the other wagons, and even if DC flips town, this is real progression. I don't know any of you, but im leaning towards lilith being naive and town, with farside giving intentionally bad reads. Farside is in queue for at least one other game, so doesn't currently feel overwhelmed. If play is subpar for her, its probably on purpose. Vecna flip-flop is a bit odd, and vecna does some off somewhat as tyring to sheep-without-sheeping this game. He has been reading most people the same way town~majority does, iirc. VOTE: doncorleone

why it seem like ur copying pasting and mixing other peoples opinions.

because the last few pages have been a bit over my head. I don't know anyone's meta. I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing. But based on probabilities, this is my synthesis of what other people have said. I think you'll find some of my own thoughts in there. The main point (my reasoning for sheeping ABR) is my own, and i haven't heard anyone else articulate it. And i think I've been pretty consistent in going after lilith and farside. That shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

pedit: im not scumreading vecna, he just pinged me a bit. I'm just noting my thoughts, although vecna I'll grant you that. Was prolly just a bad read or maybe i got you confused with someone else. Its the hair throwing me off maybe. you should put a hat on. I'll retract my statement about vecna, at least for now.

[votato]

UNVOTE: farside. Either ABR is town, and then probably right, or scum, in which case this is a really bad play. Why would scum be this aggressive pushing 1 townie? Worst case ABR is town and wrong, but then we still probably find out tonight with NKs. this is wayyyy better than any of the other wagons, and even if DC flips town, this is real progression. I don't know any of you, but im leaning towards lilith being naive and town, with farside giving intentionally bad reads. Farside is in queue for at least one other game, so doesn't currently feel overwhelmed. If play is subpar for her, its probably on purpose. Vecna flip-flop is a bit odd, and vecna does some off somewhat as tyring to sheep-without-sheeping this game. He has been reading most people the same way town~majority does, iirc. VOTE: doncorleone

why it seem like ur copying pasting and mixing other peoples opinions.

because the last few pages have been a bit over my head. I don't know anyone's meta. I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing. But based on probabilities, this is my synthesis of what other people have said. I think you'll find some of my own thoughts in there. The main point (my reasoning for sheeping ABR) is my own, and i haven't heard anyone else articulate it. And i think I've been pretty consistent in going after lilith and farside. That shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

pedit: im not scumreading vecna, he just pinged me a bit. I'm just noting my thoughts, although vecna I'll grant you that. Was prolly just a bad read or maybe i got you confused with someone else. Its the hair throwing me off maybe. you should put a hat on. I'll retract my statement about vecna, at least for now.

ok so how did you conclude with voting DC? are you scumreading him and why?

ABR convinced me. I don't know any of you, I have no personal bias towards any of you. Consider it an outsider's perspective. Like I said in the initial post, it seems like following ABR here has little downside. worst case we get a lot of progression/info from flips. But ABR seems really convinced, and unless he was sure he was gonna get lynched, this seems like a really bad play for ABR!scum. At this point ABR is either getting NKd or lynched tomorrow. He's very convinced, so I'm willing to go along with it, at least until someone presents an actual argument as to why hes wrong. so far people just seem to be panicking and saying "no, you're scum! you're scum!"

and whats up with hotdog recently?

[votato]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

OOOOOH

so if they lynch YOUR scumread and then shoot DC its all fine huh?

You advocating it is all fine n dandy

I should probably wait with this post to see if lilith also will jump all over this statement, but im sure that wont happen anyway

I dont believe abr is town. Im calling his bluff.
Apparently you can only read abr.

walk me through the bluff from his perspective? what does he gain/lose?

[votato]

ABR just shoot DC.

VOTE: MariaR

This^^^^

OOOOOH

so if they lynch YOUR scumread and then shoot DC its all fine huh?

You advocating it is all fine n dandy

I should probably wait with this post to see if lilith also will jump all over this statement, but im sure that wont happen anyway

I dont believe abr is town. Im calling his bluff.
Apparently you can only read abr.

walk me through the bluff from his perspective? what does he gain/lose?

Lets say scum abr has a gun, that give scum more then one kill night 1. Abr can claim the one he did and scum get to kill town free of charge.
Scum abr is free day 2 for shooting who he claim. Scum get 3 dead townies by day 2.
That is all scum need is to lynch town.

can you make an actual case against abr then?

[votato]

please don't post like this

He's been posting like that all game where tf have you been?

i was gonna say... whats the difference between this and my other posts? actually, if someone would take the time to explain itd be helpful.

[votato]

Farside, I will bring up posts you made

only yesterday

.

Cakez moves up on the scum radar.
Weeeeeeee

You agreed with me Sircakez was scummy.

Sigh.
I swear im going to just lurk the rest of this game day

You agreed with me that laying low was a valid town strategy.

some have it more than others
some never have it

this sounds deep.

anyways, u should be voting eyestott buddy

Did she lose her smile?

yes

Meh
VOTE: eyestott

You agreed with me that eyestott was a meh vote but we both half-heartedly voted him for like a second...we were both looking for someone better to vote.

Catching up, but farside I don’t understand your progression on me — I thought I was a SR for you, what did I do since then to not be in your solve?

Your not my highest scum read, but im not town reading you.

We were both not town reading DC.

In the past 24 hours we have been looking at the game with similar lenses. I am angry because of what you did in the last two hours, but I want to let that anger go and understand how we could be so aligned and then you think I'm scum.

Is there a small part of you that thinks confirmation bias is playing a role? Can I really be that great of a scum actor, or am I actually town, and we both see things similarly?

I am grumbling at you and swearing up a storm.
So revised would be dc/mariah/(knight/eye/venca)

From page 46 to page 47, DC derails both bandwagons to vote for yours truly. Who is she protecting, is it eye or MariaR?

I'm not done. There's a LOT more to sift through and a very strong case to be made against DC.

Okay I mean it seems like DC basically tried to derail every existing wagon in that case. You're saying they did that deliberately in order to wagon you?

It wouldn't be the first time abr did something intentional.

I checked the meta. I thought about what was said....i swear.

VOTE: don

at some point you'll need to explain this more.

[votato]

i was gonna say... whats the difference between this and my other posts? actually, if someone would take the time to explain itd be helpful.

It's not as bad as it seemed like on the first read, but it reads like you had to force yourself to come up with reasons to vote Don, and you stuffed a bunch of short, disjointed, awkwardly-worded sentences with no transitions or structuring into one paragraph that desperately should have been several different ones. Half of the things you said in that post don't even relate to the vote at the end, but the vote reads as the conclusion of the paragraph, which is jarring and it looks like you're just trying to make up random shit to justify yourself (it took me several close readings of that post to realize that you were not).

yeah, sorry for the shit writing. I was trying to get the post out fast, because there were a ton of posts all at the same time, and I was tired of hitting submit a ton of times before the post actually got sent. I actually moved the vote from the very beginning of the post because i dont like the aesthetics of unvote being next to vote. I guess I'll take my time in the future, but i really dont like reading other people's posts from the preview pane.

I guess my vote should have been after I discussed DC. My read on DC was pure sheep, but i explained why. To me, ABR seems to be legit, and we should sheep him.

pedit: is it worth it for me now to go back and ebwop? or do you understand what i was saying? see its happening again. every time i hit submit theres 5 new posts i have to respond to, and it feels like this post is just gonna get longer and longer.

[votato]

so scumcakez is making no effort to bus.
lilith is pondering while they discuss in PT
farside is freaking out and thought, cant wait for PT, better just bus.
something smart is thinking "if i just stay the hell out of this, they wont realize im scum"
FB is trying to get a counterwagon going to distract/pull votes
vecna and chkflip saw this coming, and hopped on the wagon early.
everyone else is afk
thats a lot of scum tho... some would say too many scum...

[votato]

VCA this game will suck a bag of dicks.

nah fam, i gotchu

[votato]

the third scum is in {lilith, FB, (ico)} but unlikely ico. These three options on an advanced statistical algorithm. I'm surprised that the algorithm puts farside and chkflip as town.

[votato]

cant we just let DC and ABR shoot eachother? why waste a lynch? I'm gonna UNVOTE: DC. Its not just that he's shouting, its that he seems to be insisting on things that make sense. Therefore, VOTE: cakez.

@farside: still waiting on you to explain your flip-flop in more detail. The algorithm has nothing to do with them being on or off the wagon. It has nothing to do with the content of any posts. Its based on posting patterns, and I don't want to reveal any details in case it proves to be accurate. It probably isnt.

[votato]

cant we just let DC and ABR shoot eachother? why waste a lynch? I'm gonna UNVOTE: DC. Its not just that he's shouting, its that he seems to be insisting on things that make sense. Therefore, VOTE: cakez.

@farside: still waiting on you to explain your flip-flop in more detail. The algorithm has nothing to do with them being on or off the wagon. It has nothing to do with the content of any posts. Its based on posting patterns, and I don't want to reveal any details in case it proves to be accurate. It probably isnt.

"he" is abr.

yeah thats still not enough explanation farside.

[votato]

yes. im glad my opinion is so important to you. VOTE: donC

[votato]

Looky, looky what someone caught.

And now for DC backtrack to begin.

This kind of post

is

not

helping

isnt it amazing how many of farside's posts are like that?

@DC why are you now thinking ABR is town, yet youre gonna vig him and still voting him?

[votato]

I really dont like the last two sentences of that ABR post.

[votato]

actually with his new avatar suddenly im scumreading ABR. vote ABR.

[votato]

honestly how could you get a new avatar, acknowledging the flaws in the previous one, and still not be wearing a hat?

[votato]

yeah if you guys are town you both do owe it to your wincon to keep cooler heads - notice how once people got so butthurt the game completely died. or maybe it was ABRs new avatar that caused it.

[votato]

Also at least I don’t read me as scum lmao

If you’d town that is, if you’re scum then you’re playing in a pretty shitty way but eh, scum gonna scum

at this point, even believing you we are pretty committed to listening to ABR today.

i do like those reads, although i still dont see the merit of the eyestoad/knightmare wagons.

[votato]

also, this might come in handy:

https://khn.org/news/saying-goodbye-the-right-way/

[votato]

is there anything to be said?

[votato]

UNVOTE: dc im ok with a cakez lynch, but it isnt my most preferred option. Yesterday Cakez had some really bad takes, and I also think he was going way too hard on the eyesnot wagon for it being an afk slot. If cakes flips scum doesnt that mean DC has to die? VOTE: cakez

[votato]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

[votato]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

Yes but any night could be picked. Do you think every player picked n1?

i know not every player picked n1. abr and dc picked n1 tho, unless theyre lying. if theyre lying theyre probably scum. what do you want us to do here farside?

[votato]

yeah I'm really not sure what to make of ABR/DC anymore. But i think perhaps whats left of them is best left for day 2. DC's reads have consistently been similar to mine, which is hard to scumread for. Parts of the defense were too AtE and seemed a bit forced possibly. Like i said yesterday, I'm not sure how to read ABR, but it seemed like a bad scumplay to push DC like that. The trade just isnt worth it. ABR seemed super sure. Looking back, if you have a read that strong, i feel like you (ABR) need to reveal who you think the main of DC is so we can judge for ourselves whether your case has merit.

My lynchpool for today is currently: {chkflip, cakez, farside, lilith}.

@lilith why is it scummy for chkflip to get on the DC wagon with me after SRing me, but not scummy for me to do the same after SRing chk? also, your lynch pool now stands at 7 people, right? do you scum read all 7? There's something in the way lilith changes her mind that feels off, but its just a gut feeling. Maybe a close look over her ISO would shed light. I might do that later if this wagon gets going.

that said, I noted opportunistic behavior from chkflip earlier: he was on both KM and my initial wagons, both of which were for super low-hanging fruit. I've made previous arguments for this wagon too.

farside always seems to be arguing against me. I'm sure I'm wrong about some things, maybe even most things. But it seems hard to believe that a fellow townie could be this diametrically opposed to me on reads. I've made previous arguments here.

cakez is largely a sheep. I dont like the defense of DC earlier. the 100% insistence on DC's innocence to me either says scum defending non-scum for townpoints post-flip, or scum defending scum. I don't see why a townie could be that confident. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the confidence was played up to increase the likelihood of being taken seriously? I'll leave that for more experienced players to decide. For me, it seems scummy tho.

pedit: I don't think theres anything to be gained from metaing me at this stage. even within this game i think my playstyle has altered drastically.

[votato]

how am I a sheep? I'm the only one still on ABR at this point.

to clarify i meant that my scumread on you was sheeping largely. I said early on that I'd likely do a fair bit of sheeping of reads, and that it would happen less as the game went on. I'm learning, bear with me.

[votato]

the fact that that's the one part of my post that you latched onto makes me scumread you even more.

[votato]

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

[votato]

Somehow I missed that you were also scumreading chkflip. So why were you okay with joining a wagon with chkflip on it if you’re still scumreading him?

Don’t think you answered this

bigger fish, momentum of the game. you think that just because someone i SR is on a wagon i should immediately think the person is innocent? that seems strange. I don't think i've done anything opportunistically. I sheep reads sometimes - but ive never denied that and made it pretty clear why. being new doesnt make me not scum, but i think that even when i sheep reads i give my own reasoning.

maybe im just having trouble seeing whats a read and what isnt. you mentioned me and didnt think you were convinced. whatever. its fine. I will get back to you tomorrow. For now it doesnt look like we're gonna lynch you, so lets just focus on who we are gonna lynch.

has cakez always been on the maria is scum wagon? or is he trying to distance pre-flip?

[votato]

Votato is opportunistic because he literally developed his scumread on me in one post. I actually have progression.

almost like you've been trying to plant distancing seeds for days now, while you suddenly became the wagon, and I had to decide to support or oppose it. You aren't my top choice for a lynch. But after yesterday I'm ok with lynching you. Also, didn't i mention a few scummy things you said yesterday? I'm not sure, but it would be in my ISO. I've been pretty clearly stating my reads and lynchpool as we go along.

[votato]

newb im not just gonna lynch u cause I don't like u. Baka

are you gonna lynch me just cuz you dont like me, baka?

[votato]

drunk vecna jere


ama

what is ur biggest dream?

imnalready living it!

rate me based on my body on a scale of 1-10 please

[votato]

the horn could ne bigger you slender beast

this is my little horn I use on fairies like ABR. the other horn is bigger and ready for u daddy

[votato]

DC cant be RC because Im RC

[votato]

i cant tell you that or people might start believing im RC

[votato]

my honesty levels are at 100 fb

cmon, im in a talking mood

are you scum?

[votato]

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

i think youre basically right. but shes also saying that shes fence-sitting. I sorta feel the same way she does though, too. I get some scummy and some towny vibes from both you and maria. But since i FoS lilith, im inclined to think that she's fence-sitting opportunistically.

@vecna, about 28 hours

[votato]

yeah theres gotta be scum in {farside, lilith, maria}. the question is how many

[votato]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Knightmare is obviously avoiding this thread.

Speedwagon?

it was site-wide.

[votato]

Okay, SirCakez.

SirCakez, okay.

Okay, SirCakez.

Tell me, in great detail -- nay, the

greatest

detail -- how "FaKe DrUnKpOsTiNg LoL" helps any player, of any alignment, at any point, in any game in the history of this entire website. I'm talking links. I'm talking parenthetical references.

Because if you're going to waste the game's time with that goofy shit you better put the legwork in son.

I have no idea
but tell me I'm wrong that it looks fake

@lilith, cakez, Maria, S_S -- what do you think of Iconeum?

I have been waffling on Ico all game. Apparently they have a scummy playstyle but also they are really scummy! So idk. I think he is a good shot. I would vote it but not top priority for me.

If we do lynch cakez today then I'm shooting icon, in response to your question from before, ABR.

don't worry i'm returning the favour

what does this mean?
we have a confirmed scum in the gun claims now don't we?

do we? we have 2 gun claims and then ico who claimed gun and then the PT told him it was a bad idea so he unclaimed. 2(3)<4. we'd need 4 gun claims to confirm a scum among them. and 1/4 is no better than random chance.

[votato]

with 11 hours to deadline, it would be nice if people would decide to show up...

[votato]

VOTE: Knightmare

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

@dc: abr did say he would......lets just say i lost some trust with my reads and had a panic thought processes so im going to just shut up and let each gun claim person decide whom they will shoot.
Just dont shoot each other, it helps scum.

Before the day ends each claimed gun player should say whom they will shoot.
Dont shoot what someone else claimed.

at this point shouldnt we leave knightmare for day 2? i dunno, he is definitely ignoring this thread, but we gain so little info on associations from lynching him. The main thing to be gained is that I defended him i guess. he had a couple early interactions with eteyoos and chkflip, but thats it. ill get on the KM wagon if thats whats needed to have a lynch, but i think there are many better candidates, at least for today.

[votato]

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

[votato]

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

What do you want me to do? Go through 500 pages of shit posting? no, I'm not interested thanks.
I've given my reads and my position on the wagons. I don't see a need to do anything else.
I give you scum you refuse to lynch it, can't do anything else.

oh god. if you don't think you can handle it, don't play? super scummy that you show up to defend yourself as soon as the finger is on you. that said, i still think there are better wagons than knightmare.

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

Yes.
Why?

seems really strange that when youre under pressure you have good reads and logic, and then when the pressure is off suddenly your reads go down the shitter. almost like you were actually being helpful to seem town, but now theres no pressure so you can go back to misleading.

[votato]

claim?

mmmmm this is scummy

Why

well i feel like its too easy to fake-claim. even under pressure, claiming prolly helps scum more than town.

[votato]

Vecna is still my most solid scumread with his stances the day before and nothing has made me want to change my mind

I was going over it in my head and the way Lilth/Farside grew apart had to have either been planned in advance or it was just natural. We have 2 people who were hard budding half the game and then grew apart to 1 of them scumreading the other. Now, this can be distracting and in fact it's a classic move. However, I think the way they did it isn't SvS because it didn't turn into an auto tunnel. It got a bit defensive on Lilith's side and Aggro with farside. This is very odd SvS behavior where the only way I could see this being SvS is farside bussing Lil. But if that is the case and they're SvS? Why not just keep going for me or something like that. It's not like I was unlynchable the day before.

That leaves Votaro who has had good posts that I really like and then some that make me boggle my head. And Eyescott who has been...afk.

FoS on you for really liking some of my posts. Im objectively bad at this game. although i did say knightmare was town and a stupid lynch...

[votato]

preferred wagons were cakez, lilith, chkflip at least. well really pretty much anyone, although knightmares posts at the very end had me reconsidering.

is it strange that both ABR and DC are alive? those are safe shots for scum right? or are they not good shots cuz they give town too much info?

scum probably shot both SS and firebringer right?

[votato]

preferred wagons were cakez, lilith, chkflip at least. well really pretty much anyone, although knightmares posts at the very end had me reconsidering.

is it strange that both ABR and DC are alive? those are safe shots for scum right? or are they not good shots cuz they give town too much info?

scum probably shot both SS and firebringer right?

DC needs to claim now.

There's a very real chance that DC is scum who took rose and fakeclaimed gun yesterday.

Why not see if there is a CC? Or what makes you think scum wouldn't lie about being a rose N1

Im just wondering what makes one more likely then the other for claims.

well if DC says I shot xyz and xyz is alive and picked rose n2 instead of n1, then we know one of them is scum.

and killing one scum is a free win? you were so sure yesterday that DC AND cakez were scum. We now know at least one of those was wrong. Why should we still think that the other part is right?

[votato]

didnt ico retract the claim? or was that just pussyfooting to claim but not get shot by scum?

[votato]

Can you be more clear on what you're asking? More so I don't get what you're asking.

Oh right, also this: I think we should be sorting into two pools — most likely scum on-wagon and most likely scum off-wagon, then decide which group to lynch within. I’m thinking off-wagon is stronger if we have 2 ICs within it (again, assuming no CC on icon who I’m still struggling to believe is town and am quite frankly astonished that no one has CC’d his gun) and then 2 left. Which would mean pretty much a lock on 1 scum in (vecna, votato) unless all 3 scum were on the D1 wagon which I find unlikely

those pools seem wayyyyy more complicated than they need to be. why not just sort people into either scum or not scum? then we lynch all the scum and go home. ezpz.

[votato]

better lynch me because i'm shooting you tonight

Hardclaim gun

have fun with that

I find it mildly hilarious that I explicitly called how bad it was for town for a massclaim to happen and yet all 3 guns have now claimed D1.

i'm not a gun, probably, but i was making a statement that 20 pages in less then half a day is a little much to keep up with

fair warning if i'm a gun i'm shooting in the pool of anyone in the +200 post count

hmmm... that is all

[votato]

FoS on you for really liking some of my posts. Im objectively bad at this game. although i did say knightmare was town and a stupid lynch...

[votato]

Saying im bad is iioa, and it's info everyone knows.

[votato]

No I didn't.

Is there any reason to think that ABR’s reads today are any better than his reads yesterday?

No. That said i agree with abr on Lilith. I think the other two are chkflip and vecna at this point. Vecna is almost tstbs. VOTE: lilith

We've already effectively massclaimed. Unless there's gun in afk, everyone town aligned is a rose

[votato]

Scum definitely shot a gun n1.
Eetoot is the only one not to post today, although it's been a minute for Maria, so maybe she didn't see the three gun claims?

[votato]

Have you seen the flips vecna?

vecna means they used a gun.

[votato]

at least one. Even if dc is scum. Unless an unclaimed town gun (eyeslut) shot a townie last night

[votato]

I think farside is much more likely to understand my flipflopping though

?? farside has been trying to convince you that uncced guns are ICs.

Did you just scumclaim buddies with farside..?

Can you stop this and get out of that tunnel and actually try to look at what im saying?

You know, im town here and im trying to explain to you the other side of this coin. But youre just going "LALALALALALA cant hear you"

except you definitely arent town.

for me clear list is: {ico, ABR, DC, me}
for me scumpool is: {farside, lilith, vecna, eteyost, maria, chkflip}

in scumpool i TR farside and prolly tyeseot. that leaves lilith, vecna, chkflip, and maria, of whom maria doesnt fit very well. preferred lynches are lilith and chkflip.

yes, in each prior iteration scum chose at least one rose. theres no reason to think they did that again though.

the knightmare wagon was objectively bad.

[votato]

except you definitely arent town.

preferred lynches are lilith and chkflip.

?? Why are you calling vecna scum but he’s not in your lynch pool?

oh yeah whoops i meant that my ideal lynches for today are lilith and vecna. chkflip can wait because im a bit less sure there.

[votato]

You lynched knight and wanted to shoot two confirmed town guns.

I was wrong about 2 players you were wrong about 3 players.

I wanted to shoot you because you’re arrogant, wrong, and annoying

you have both been arrogant, wrong, and annoying. but please figure out who's arroganter, wronger, and annoyinger later.

[votato]

not if you lynch me though

[votato]

yoink

[votato]

yeah i had a scumread on chkflip from very early on d1.

vecna has been spewing some crazy bullshit today, cant tell if its stupid or desperate.

[votato]

Interesting.

[votato]

Also, DC - why are you taking Farside having a N1 rose as a strong reason to townread her?

Dont you feel most town would take it for later days? Like all the 4 people that have flipped town so far?

you want to be rose on the nights where most killing takes place to be the safest. there were quite a few night 1 guns, and she was in fact shot last night. a night 1 rose seems to have been a good call, at least in her case. later roses didnt do much good for anyone shot last night did they? its hard to know ex ante, i dont see why any particular night is anti-town.

[votato]

I really wish Votato or Eyescott were shot last night over Cakez. This game would've felt so much easier but, no point in whining about that now.

Why do people sr my most confident townread?

why do you think im scum? who is your most confident townread?

honestly why does anyone think eeoysttt is scum?

[votato]

What’s your solve vecna?

I honestly think any solve is gonna involve MAX 1 in (Eyestott Votato)

Maybe im just stubborn because ive been townreading those two since the beginning and I want to be right.

I think Chk is only scum if Maria is scum, but I have no real strong reasons for that besides the way maria latched onto me in her catchup for voting and unvoting chkflip. I still think that mightve drawn her attention for partner reasons, and chkflip has been completely utterly unphased by anything ive thrown in his direction regarding this.

a bit behind. this post really struck me, because I also think steyeoat and votato are town. Yet we are two people who were almost universally scumread early in the day yesterday. And Vecna is 100% scum here. Don't let him escape by using dumb arguments and AtE. Scum!vecna latched on to the two most likely mislynches early in the day. Just like he latched onto the actual mislynch late in the day. He conveniently townread all three of us, hoping to get towncred post-flip. To me this clears myself and ayeschott. I'll put myself out there and say that if vecna flips town ico should vig me. If i flip town, spare tneysott

Also, DC, in what universe could (me, eye, chk) be the scum? I've hard defended eye and been pushing chkflip hard the whole game. Super obviously. They're the two players (along with farside) i have the most associations with. Do you really think we would make it that obvious?

[votato]

I think it’s vecna/chkflip/?

so this tells me its vecna maria and lilith, and chkflip is innocent. maybe. or fuck, it could be aoiaaoyett, he hasnt said much. I just think because of the lack of contribution/content for irl reasons the push there is prolly scum-motivated going for lhf.

DC yes your ISO is really long, but about half of it is just you whining about how hard your life (in this game) is, and how hard it is to be a woman in the 21st century. The sort of AtE fluff posts that would make me wanna vote you if you werent clear. i dont see how your posts come from a pro-town mindset. honestly.

[votato]

VOTE: vecna

thats L-1.

what do we get out of lynching ayiueyt%tt? he has been pretty much idle most of the game. we learn so little. its basically like lynching knightmare again. i really see no merit in it. we've identified a scum here. lets kill it.

[votato]

What’s your solve vecna?

I honestly think any solve is gonna involve MAX 1 in (Eyestott Votato)

Maybe im just stubborn because ive been townreading those two since the beginning and I want to be right.

I think Chk is only scum if Maria is scum, but I have no real strong reasons for that besides the way maria latched onto me in her catchup for voting and unvoting chkflip. I still think that mightve drawn her attention for partner reasons, and chkflip has been completely utterly unphased by anything ive thrown in his direction regarding this.

a bit behind. this post really struck me, because I also think steyeoat and votato are town. Yet we are two people who were almost universally scumread early in the day yesterday. And Vecna is 100% scum here. Don't let him escape by using dumb arguments and AtE. Scum!vecna latched on to the two most likely mislynches early in the day. Just like he latched onto the actual mislynch late in the day. He conveniently townread all three of us, hoping to get towncred post-flip. To me this clears myself and ayeschott. I'll put myself out there and say that if vecna flips town ico should vig me. If i flip town, spare tneysott

Also, DC, in what universe could (me, eye, chk) be the scum? I've hard defended eye and been pushing chkflip hard the whole game. Super obviously. They're the two players (along with farside) i have the most associations with. Do you really think we would make it that obvious?

What? Ive never latched onto any easy mislynch - unless you want to call Dc an easy mislynch, which seems patently false.

This is the second or third time you make these claims, after which you back down after being corrected.

--------------

in fact:
I was one of the first people to call Icon town based on early game reads and never wavered on that read

I correctly called knightguy town and tried to persuade people from wagoning it

Ive harddefending you, Votato, for the entire game, and called you as town at every single step of the game

Ive had gut townreads on Stotts the entire game and held onto that.

never have I voted any of the above people, and ive actively questioned and tried to stop wagons on all these slots

So, what are you talking about? Because im confused as fuck by yours posts

actually, thats exactly what im talking about. i think youre TMIing myself and aoiduhett, and knightmare too. you have all these townreads that everyone else disagrees with. You keep defending people that look like they might get lynched. Im saying youre defending them to get towncred postlynch, knowing theyre town.

ive been pushing at you all day. I just hadnt voted you because i was still hoping there would be momentum towards lilith. that aint gonna happen. so here we are. people are starting to vote, it looks like a lynch might happen soon. I think youre a good candidate, and i think oehfpuheyt is a bad candidate.

[votato]

no 3+1+1=5

[votato]

dont worry, i triple-checked. and again now. assuming the vote count is accurate, thats not a hammer. 5<6

[votato]

yeah itd suck if we accidentally lynched scum, wouldnt it?

[votato]

i guess i should say that it might not be the best idea to vig me tonight. but if venca flips town, lynch me tomorrow cuz id have to commit honorable sudoku anyway.

[votato]

Eyestot is obvscum, everyone on vecna change your vote to eyestot.

why? i dont see that case at all. but maybe hes just pocketed me

Im surprised that you or anyone else would think I actively go about attacking our ICs though. Without a plan to back that up. Ive been constantly stuck in the mindset that scum WOULD eventually cc the gun guys, because not doing so is just not sensible. Why give everyone a 50% PoE when we have a lynch and another gunshot? Having 1 person do a proper gun claim changes the odds to hit scum to 25% in the gunpool and 33% in the rose pool. its a fucking stupid scum strategy, but they sure got me to look like a buffoon by using the suboptimal approach.

In my mind I have liked a few of your posts today, but that's more on the logic of I think if you're town here you're playing the game horribly. You'd have to misrep a ton of things and have logic that I would just...never expect to come from town you because it's so bad. It's more of a respect thing and your actions making more sense than anything else. I would flip to 1 of Votato/Eyescott if the other is vigged. Or just Lilth, but none of those are happening at the moment.

I dont really think you should be making that statement, because besides DC everything ive stated strong opinions on and that has flipped has been correct so far.

Heck, votato is even voting me over that shit

as it happens i also townread oihoiaughr and knightmare, but i based my read on KM on another game, and my read on adoiouhsedf was partially connected to that. you had access to none of that info, and yet you townread both of them and me. townreading three of the scummiest players without a good reason is pretty scummy. and yeah to some extent that implicates me, but i had some prior info, you just had TMI.

[votato]

also, what do we gain from an eoesfuiot lynch? seems like a low-info lynch regardless of flip

[votato]

votato is scum unless he switches to eyestot now

im also willing to unvote vecna and drop the hammer on vecna once someone else votes, making me double-scum.

[votato]

farside being useless 1st vote sleeping and ur sheeping scum maria, wake up.

or maybe scum is sheeping me? you dont think theyre just bussing? im staying the hell away from sdfoiuhstght's wagon. for one thing id have to be able to spell the name for the vote to count. UNVOTE:
i can do that much for you though. I'm ok with any lynch other than the confirmed, farside, and aseoirfhsv. oh and id rather not get lynched either.

[votato]

NO

noone shoots votato

they can shoot me tonight if they want .

i have this awful feeling that somehow ABR is scum and a town gun fucked up.

[votato]

NO

noone shoots votato

they can shoot me tonight if they want .

i have this awful feeling that somehow ABR is scum and a town gun fucked up.

This is scummy as hell

VOTE: Votato
Let me just give a bit of incentive

incentive to what? i strongly disagree with that wagon. there are four perfectly good wagons out there. excluding vecna there are still three. im not getting on a wagon i disagree with just because at least some townies agree. if vecna and maria are scum, doesnt that mean there was only one scum on the vecna wagon?

[votato]

im really thinking its maria now. so that makes it maria vecna lilith? maybe still chk.

[votato]

townread on eadishastse is weak. I just dont think theres been much content. i guess recently ive been hard defending aodfhadfeah because everyone else was attacking so much while he wasnt even here to defend, but the push seemed to come from a bad place. the original FoS i think came from the talk about mass-claiming. It seemed like the same logic between aorfuhaf and KM, and i TRd KM (who flipped town). I mostly think the other options are better. lynching an afk teaches us little. we need to at least give asdkljahdaw plenty of time to talk and incriminate himself if we do lynch that way. should NOT be a rush lynch, but a deadline lynch. vecna is a pretty good candidate now, even if that would mean both scumbuddies are bussing. i think thats plausible. especially since maria unvoted (scum) and the lilith is now asleep.

[votato]

townread on eadishastse is weak. I just dont think theres been much content. i guess recently ive been hard defending aodfhadfeah because everyone else was attacking so much while he wasnt even here to defend, but the push seemed to come from a bad place. the original FoS i think came from the talk about mass-claiming. It seemed like the same logic between aorfuhaf and KM, and i TRd KM (who flipped town). I mostly think the other options are better. lynching an afk teaches us little. we need to at least give asdkljahdaw plenty of time to talk and incriminate himself if we do lynch that way. should NOT be a rush lynch, but a deadline lynch. vecna is a pretty good candidate now, even if that would mean both scumbuddies are bussing. i think thats plausible. especially since maria unvoted (scum) and the lilith is now asleep.

Do this for me. pretend im town, and think how the world looks then.

Then act based on this new reality, and win the game

ive done that. i dont see how you could be town in reality, but maybe you just werent reading the thread for a minute there. im just concerned now that youre trying to pocket me. you not reading seems less likely than trying to pocket the noob. but i want to believe youre town. i want it to be maria, lilith, and chk. i really do.

[votato]

We have
Maria Lilth farside votato Chkflip eyescott YOU

Let us remove you for obvious reasons from your pov
Maria Lilth farside votato Chkflip eyescott

Now we remove your votato tr that you've had for a bit. Now let us see what we're left with here:

Maria Lilth farside Chkflip eyescott

My issue with you is, if eyescott just started pinging you recently why haven't you been

hard

pushing Chkflip? The team isn't me farside Lilith anyone who looked at how we treated each other can gauge that interaction. Meaning 1 scum from your pov is in Chkflip/eyescott. Yet you unvote eyescott here and I haven't seen you push Chk at all?

Like, I ask for your scumreads because I wanna see where your head is at. Plus you called me scum with farside. If that's the case, why aren't you voting me? Why aren't your pushing me? Your words and your actions just don't line up to me.

so by that logic im totally clear in your eyes?

[votato]

so by that logic im totally clear in your eyes?

I'm using this logic in a Vecna POV with what he's said.

In my eyes I can see you and him being scum. If farside is a scum rose she isn't getting lynched today but even in another world I want Vecna dead or 1 of you/eyescott dead with the other vigged.

but swap me for him. i did exactly what you said he should do from that POV. we had essentially the same POV with the same reads.

[votato]

god damn it vecna is making too much sense.

VOTE: mariar

now this i can get behind. VOTE: maria.

[votato]

god damn it vecna is making too much sense.

VOTE: mariar

now this i can get behind. VOTE: maria.

You only started pushing me when I was pushing your death...

throughout today my suspicions of you have been growing. I'm sure its there in my iso, at least implicitly. Dammit Vecna has me pocketed now. I feel like our brains are similar. At first i didnt believe it, so I scumread him for it. But he understands me too well for it to be fake. and while i can see myself being able to fake actually understanding myself, thats a huge risk to take as scum!vecna. that probably makes no sense. essentially, vecna and my brains are twinning, so i think hes town.

i TR farside, vecna, doihatawroif. that leaves chkflip, maria, lilith. apparently the maria lynch isnt gonna happen today (i still cant articulate the read, its largely gut and her accusations sounding increasingly desperate and her moves looking opportunistic (look at her votes and posts around the time her vote moves and other peoples votes move to her). chkfliip im less confident in. that leaves lilith, who has been incredibly lurky today after being town leader yesterday. VOTE: lilith.

Also, i dont see any world in which both myself and soetihoat or myself and vecna could both be scum. probably not both me and chkflip either. dont know why some people have both of us in their pools at the same time.

[votato]

i think if nosedad is scum, then probably chkflip isnt scum. im basically sold on lilith and maria. but eh, could be wrong.

[votato]

interesting.

[votato]

interesting.

shut up you stupid unicorn

jk, i agree. your logic makes sense to me.

[votato]

Scum probably all 3 picked gun, killed FB/something smat/farside.

Lilith is scum fore sure.

i dont think farside was an optimal shot for scum. maybe theres still a gun out there with scum.

[votato]

DC's reads make no sense. townreads maria, farside, and lilith.

So what you think scum is vecna/votato/eyestot?

And these 3 decided to not kill a single claimed gun?

Come on.

i think DC's reads are largely based on male/non-male. townreads all three women, scumreads men. DC i think youre still letting emotions from yesterday cloud your reads.

[votato]

yeah honestly i still dont see the motive for scum to not kill any gun claims, and then also not claim a gun themselves. seems that if youre gonna leave the guaranteed kills alone, then you want to at least mislynch some of them. this would be way more complicated if we had to lynch 1/4 in the ICs plus a cc.

[votato]

on the other hand, last night the guns werent really seen as ICs. the two that had hardclaimed were n1, and the softclaim was a n1 softclaim. Theres not much reason to shoot people who arent confirmed town, and theres not much reason to shoot guns who are gonna get their shots off anyway. plus there was a pretty real chance that one of ABR and DC shot the other. I think maybe scum rolled the dice and got unlucky. I cant really explain why their next move wasnt to cc, cuz a CC would have almost certainly resulted in a DC or ABR mislynch. That tells me that we arent in mylo right now, or they would have gone for the high % play for today.

[votato]

VOTE: votato

I can fucks with this.

why is that?

[votato]

If there are two ICs on this wagon then a lynch is gonna happen, and scum dont even really have to get on the wagon if they dont want to. I've said what i want to say. The sad part is, i cant even bring myself to fully trust the one person actually defending me. If i'm scum, then the scum team is what? {votato, vecna, aoiahatarfu}? Yeah, that doesnt make sense. If you're really thinking I'm town at this point you not only have a really really bad read on me, but you also have a really bad picture of the gamestate. If you are town and honestly think I'm scum, you've gotta go home and rethink your life.

[votato]

thats odd. usually at this time of night people are posting. but suddenly the wagon turns to me, and all the possible scum disappear magically. almost like theyre very happy with where the lynch is and are waiting for more townies to hop on the wagon. hmm. really strange.

[votato]

thats odd. usually at this time of night people are posting. but suddenly the wagon turns to me, and all the possible scum disappear magically. almost like theyre very happy with where the lynch is and are waiting for more townies to hop on the wagon. hmm. really strange.

can you expand on this with quotes or post references and stuff plz

can i quote posts to prove people weren't posting? Not really. But you can flip back a page and look at timestamps. Pressure shifts to me, game dies.

[votato]

Wow i really need to proff read my post.

ironic.

[votato]

nope, im happy with you now that youre voting lilith.

[votato]

scum dont win when they outnumber roses. they win if all roses die. also, we have 4 flips.

[votato]

chkflip is refusing to engage with anyone.

[votato]

fwiw: the SS kill actually seems a bit strange. SS wasnt widely townread was he? that suggests that maybe he saw something he shouldnt have. his townreads were: farside, lilith (although lilith was just based on the fact that she recruited him to play and he didnt think shed immediately tunnel him). his scumreads were: adijkuhsatliuga. is that worth reading into?

[votato]

as for FB, he scumread maria and aiuathiauh, and thought lilith and vecna couldnt be a scumpair. Not sure what he thought about me, on at least one occasion he was ok with a wagon on me. he had townreads on everyone who died.

[votato]

gee i wish the other ICs would show up

[votato]

do i not get credit for trying to gamesolve here?

[votato]

Spoiler:

Okay I only made it through about 60 pages but here's what I have so far:

Independently I would say eyestott and votato are the scummiest. They tend to join wagons late; eyestott seems almost afraid to place his vote as if he doesn't want to rock the boat and basically doesn't vote anyone who isn't already being wagoned; votato seems to be following most of the major wagons D1. A point in votato's favor is that he was trying to push farside when she was fairly townread. On the flip side, he's on the cakes counterwagon to an all-town wagon on maria at end of D1, the DC wagon, and the D2 vecna wagon. eyestott ends up on the knightmare lynch but only because his vote was already there from before; however, he put the original vote on knightmare only after someone else voted there and then seems to have dropped the push once others said knightmare was too scummy to be scum (this might have overlapped with his RL absence from the thread though). eyestott is also on the D2 vecna wagon. So overall I think they are about equal but not necessarily on the same team.

disclaimer: shitty wagon analysis incoming
eyestott vs maria wagons: if eyestott is scum and maria is the town counterwagon, then that implicates vecna I think
maria vs cakes wagons: if maria is scum and cakes is the town counterwagon, then that implicates votato, chkflip, and/or farside
votato D1 wagon: I think at least 1 scum is on this wagon (farside or chkflip)
DC D1 wagon: I also think at least 1 scum is on this wagon (chkflip, vecna, votato, farside)
ABR D1 wagon: also probable for at least 1 scum to be on this wagon (vecna, farside, chkflip). farside, vecna, and chkflip probably more so because they are on both the ABR wagon and the DC wagon.
vecna D2 wagon: at least 1 scum on this wagon regardless of vecna alignment; at least 2 scum if vecna is town. (maria, farside, eyestott, votato)
eyestott D2 wagon: likely at least 1 scum on this wagon regardless of eyestott alignment (vecna, maria)
lilith D2 wagon: at least 1 but probably 2 scum on this wagon (farside, chkflip, votato, vecna)

I think that leaves me with {eyestott, vecna, farside/chkflip} or {maria, farside/chkflip, votato} or smaller chance of {maria, eyestott, farside/votato} if both the eyestott/maria wagons are on scum (I think this is less likely because their wagons got derailed by DC who is conftown)

I feel like people have been saying that Maria/farside doesn't make sense because of D1 but actually Maria pushed farside really hard on D1, dropped it, and basically hasn't engaged with farside since. Even though farside was originally one of her top scumreads at the beginning of the day, Maria has said pretty much nothing about that slot after that. farside was also scumreading Maria based on their D1 interactions but in D2 does not seem to be pushing her at all or considering Maria to be part of any possible scum team to the point that it seems like she is now townreading Maria. Also at the end of D1 I was trying to question Maria and farside kind of chainsaw defended her by attacking me for it.

On reread I'm actually feeling more confident in a Maria/farside team due to the lack of interaction/disconnect in reads vs tone D2 so I'm leaning towards {maria, farside, votato/eyestott} or {eyestott, vecna, farside/chkflip} as secondary team

you shade me for being on the vecna wagon and also have vecna on your scumlist in many of your solves. which is it?

[votato]

I mean it’s not that wagon in particular but that you seem to just follow whatever major wagon is happening at the time

thats not true either, is it? i stood up to the knightmare wagon, my own wagon, the maria wagon, the toiushetrset wagon... today ive also made it pretty clear that there are some wagons i will not support. i wont vote farside, i wont vote vecna now, im starting to come around on soeituh, but was pretty adamant about not voting there either earlier.

[votato]

yesterday i was the first im aware of to FoS farside, was very early yesterday to FoS lilith. Today I think i was the first to actually vote lilith. i wasnt just on the vecna wagon, i was arguing my case there. you might not like my reasoning. but you cant say that i've been sheeping for the majority of the game. you also cant say that ive been on whatever wagon was most popular. ive stuck my neck in some nasty places for people i now scumread, and im now sticking my neck out for people i previously scumread. and i think the progression on those people is clearly laid out in my iso.

[votato]

This is before the DC vs ABR screamfest

I'm leaning towards Don c, lilith, and chk being scum.

This is after the screamfest in which you were on the DC wagon (btw, you unvoted DC in 1851)

DC's reads have consistently been similar to mine, which is hard to scumread for.

How do you go so quickly from "scumreading DC" until 1851 to "DC's reads have been similar to mine so I can't scumread him" in 1885?

my reasoning for sheeping a lot yesterday, and my reason for getting on the DC wagon, was that I knew i was new, and I was neither confident nor skilled. ABR seemed really confident, and i lent him my vote even being unsure of whether his logic was right. He seemed so confident that i figured there had to be 1 scum out of the 2, so either way DC flipped itd be worth it. I think most people wound up agreeing. So yes, I sheeped ABR. I think sheeping ABR worked out better than continuing as i had when i was going after farside. I dont think you could say that I'm sheeping today. And even yesterday when I wasnt confident, I didnt only sheep. I stood up to a few important wagons, as mentioned above. I think we all agree that my play was really bad early this game. But i also think that my play is better now.

[votato]

VOTE: eyestoad.

Late on a wagon again, but the wagon merely formed overnight. I also still dont know how i feel about the wagon, but i trust firebringer. I have reason to believe fb is town. Will explain later

[votato]

Oh fuck, i did not realize it was l-1

[votato]

yes it is. But here i only saw four votes. Well i guess I'm the lynch tomorrow

[votato]

yes, ill be the lynch tomorrow. thats what i said.

and i dont think abr was about to compromise on mislynching me.

also, DC, youre confbiasing so fucking hard right now. I bet scum doesnt even kill DC because the reads are so fucking skewed by misandry. well whatever. DC i hope you can take a step back after this game and look at your reads. every single townread you have is female, and every single scumread you have is male. Now lilith is suddenly in your solve with me i guess.

[votato]

meh i think even if it flips scum i get lynched tomorrow.

[votato]

(Votato, Lilith +1 vecna/chkflip) if this flips town

If it’s scum then idk tbh, maybe still votato bussing for the cred?

see? DC has decided Im scum and no matter what will be pushing for my lynch. no need for scum to even shoot here because the confbias is so bad that the gamesolving is gone. DC will be alive tomorrow 100%.

[votato]

yes, ill be the lynch tomorrow. thats what i said.

and i dont think abr was about to compromise on mislynching me.

also, DC, youre confbiasing so fucking hard right now. I bet scum doesnt even kill DC because the reads are so fucking skewed by misandry. well whatever. DC i hope you can take a step back after this game and look at your reads. every single townread you have is female, and every single scumread you have is male. Now lilith is suddenly in your solve with me i guess.

talking like you know this will flip town?

im concerned that it might. i trust firebringer and SS, but my read is still null due to lack of content, and then theres the logic around the massclaim that was TSTBS.

[votato]

also there was a whole page of votes since the L-1 vote. The fact that no one pointed out it was L-1 means im not the only one who didnt realize.

[votato]

Vig votato or chkflip

#killallmen

[votato]

also DC you seem to be the only one who thinks all the women are town. Even the women think theres scum among them. Everyone else has a mix. Please take off your blinders and see that underneath our genitalia, we're all just people. And right now, we're all just internet people who arent real anyway.

[votato]

Like how tf are you meant to sort in (chkflip, votato) if there isn’t scum in there

Sometimes you got to trust the people when they are very adamant they can read slots like this.

People have different strengths on the type of players they can read well.

also, if there isnt scum in there youre supposed to sort them as town. even if they are evil men. but i still think theres likely scum in there.

[votato]

if scum please shoot in {maria, lilith}

[votato]

so there is one rose left, and two scum. I dont know why ico didnt shoot in lilith and maria. RIP. VOTE: lilith. its maria and lilith. Fortunately, scum took the bait and didnt shoot me, so we can still win this. I'm a night three rose.

[votato]

The good news is that scum is gonna shoot me tonight regardless, so we will all be alive tomorrow to discuss.

[votato]

Who the hell makes that kind of move? Well, regardless I suppose that makes it kinda obvious from my pov. Even if I didn't think this was the scumteam...like at all.

what kind of move? the kind where you try to keep yourself alive when youre exposed just long enough to be safe? it seems to have worked. so long as people listen to vecna and farside, we win now. and if its so obvious to you, why not vote?

[votato]

so what youre saying is that youre waiting for lilith to get on to see if youre gonna bus one of you or if youre gonna go for the win today by lynching me. you cant really leave it to tomorrow, can you? tomorrow you lose.

[votato]

here she is. whatll it be, bus or guts?

[votato]

God I'm gonna hate this game regardless by the end of it I just know it LMFAO. I came into this just wanting to play a nice relaxing gam-you know that should've been my first clue

so what youre saying is that youre waiting for lilith to get on to see if youre gonna bus one of you or if youre gonna go for the win today by lynching me. you cant really leave it to tomorrow, can you? tomorrow you lose.

I don't really care who I lynch first between the two of you. I'm excited regardless. If I had my choice? I'd probably rather face you than Lilith tomorrow. But I'll take what I can get

excited to hate the game?

[votato]

now i just need to somehow convince DC (lol) or ico. Maybe ico will see the error of his ways after shooting a townie?

[votato]

so we're going with bus. ok. I'll argue for why its maria lilith and eatsnot, sure. maria's metagame should be a tell, no? trash town but good scum? you already scumread her for that. Also, on day 1 people said there was no point in lynching me because if i were scum id slip and be obvscum. i dont think ive done that. most of the dead also townread me. gimme time to dig through maria, lilith, and eartoast's interactions/isos