Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)
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Soul2277 Goon
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Soul2277
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Sixty you said you caught piggy with meta. At the same time what is her meta from your point of view since that isn't explained by you at all? Thor I know you've played reverse mafia and do you not see a difference between her more detailed self now and then.
I've already seen piggy link precinct mafia and at the same time her play reminds me of her town self. Lazy is something I've heard her say enough times as town (best example is I don't like reading long posts right now or something similar). That and she posts longer as town (I know she's said the opposite before, but experience shows she does right now).
Thor looks normal.
Cerulean why meta search piggy, but not absta who you're voting right now? Artemis Fowl micro would be a start. It'd also show similar play in just acting. Beyond that they look fine in their sixty questioning along with the current back and forth with thor. They also got the same idea I have on n and I agree with them there. Sixty how do you flip off absta and to piggy like that. You gave multiple reasons on absta so it feels strange to drop off like that in the next post.
Equinox feels weak. Vote absta then go back off quickly without really explaining why (yummy isn't a reason) and the way he's treated just getting her to L-1 combined with that makes it feel worse.
Voided's 60 along with the following post feels like a bigger absta scum read while still calling piggy a good wagon and staying on her without really explaining why she's a better wagon.
Seeing two scum leans pushing absta also makes him feel more likely town so read wise voided/sixty/equinox all have scum leans. Ceru is a weak town read, thor normal, n/absta/piggy town read. Piggy I would still like you to continue on who you think is scum on your wagon (and why at least 1).
Lastly I'll talk with OS later when he finishes V/la more on reads. Don't want to vote until he shows up.
P-edit: Voided can you explain why piggy is scummier then absta (and how she compares to dirty dealing mafia where she was town)?
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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You were already in that game so how did it not affect your read more before it ended. While you couldn't have referred to it saying the wagon is fine when you knew she played similar already feels off. That and signing posts a bit would help me keep track of you two (I'd ask sixty but I doubt they'd want to).
~Mehdi-
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Thor opinion on any of my three scum leans (since I really think cerulean's reads and opinions along with changing out weigh this one strange thing). Primarily equinox and voided since you've already mentioned sixty a decent amount.
One other question to ceru being why argue so much with thor who's a town lean like that?
~Mehdi (and ceru signing is never too tough and makes later re-reads so much easier to skim through)-
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Soul2277 Goon
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I think you and voided are scum. You're both pushing absta. That makes him feel more likely town (and it's secondary reason for absta town). Read that game I mentioned since you're voting him and it'd give a better idea on his town play?
And ceru os is v/la so what does that actually mean? I won't vote til he shows up since I want to hear from him first. Best I can say there is scum reads go voided > sixty > equinox.
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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Meta. Meta explains absta so well (specifically while hard to describe it's his act play style where he just acts and plays). Artemis fowl being the example given (while it has 25 pages isoing him gives an idea of style and he mostly posts short).
Me and OS are both male even though I'm like anime.
And unless I'm seeing the wrong 60 that post focuses on absta not piggy.
P-edit: It's a secondary reason for absta. Do you think both scum bussing is likely in a white flag set up (well with the extra black rules).
~Mehdi-
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In post 137, Thor665 wrote:In post 102, Soul2277 wrote:Equi voting piggy to L-1 with minimal explanation or force. That clear enough?
~Mehdi
Except for it being a scumtell - yes.
Not sure whether this is asking how is that a scum tell or you seeing it's a scum tell. If the second I thought he was scum until his response to the two bussing felt genuine and changed my read. If the first did you not see how helping a mislynch (since I have piggy as a town read) happen is scummy? And how continuing to joke a decent amount when getting to the point of near lynching someone isn't good either? Although meh it's now irrelevant to me.
Voided I've been calling absta town. He's a town read not a scum read.
And voided quote yourself then with what you said toward piggy and what you said toward absta (before I made that post). The main point isn't that you haven't talked about both is that the amount of talking you've done on absta felt higher then how much you talked on piggy before yet you kept your vote on piggy.
~Mehdi-
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I've played with town voided once in dirty dealing and read his play in Reverse Mafia Rudex. Specific difference wise I don't see one although meta while he's commented on piggy his experience of her to be affecting his read more (specifically she faked a pr as town). OS actually knows his scum meta well and I can wait til Tuesday vs reading his scum games fully.-
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Soul2277 Goon
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That is the point on absta. Do I have to explain how similar play in two games with one being town and then attacking him for an aspect in a previous town game is bad? Honestly haven't read or experienced his scum play but when the argument is on something he's done as town and that the way he did this game to get a town read quickly look town I'll think of him as town.
Anyway continuing what is you current read on both right now. Not how much you've talked exactly, but just what is it. Response to sentence 2 (or 3) of my last post would also be nice even though it wasn't directed at you.
~Mehdi-
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In post 154, Thor665 wrote:You answer was functionally 'barely know what I'm talking about and am outsourcing to OS' so I was waiting for him as I thought you asked me to.
Well returning that do you think meta is needed for all reads? And how is two town games of him 0 knowledge of him (absta's meta is from a single town game while piggy is from two town and one scum so neither is much different).
P-edit: jesse I think ceru already explained her feelings on thor. And why wait to out reads? Reads are malleable and trying to hide them is never useful (especially in a nightless game).
That and what does noting this mean? Noting it as a town tell, scum tell, future associative tell, what? Being that vague doesn't say a thing there.-
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Soul2277 Goon
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You're asking someone to have done something. I think they already have. Purpose being unless you think they didn't already answer it?
Noting sounds like it's worth remembering. So what's interesting about it.
Waiting to give reads is an excuse to not deal with early read construction. Is there a bad thing to outing reads (they can be changed)? Can you not see a benefit to outing reads and then discussing them more in detail?
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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In post 120, Cerulean wrote:Equinox - why are you townreading Thor?
In post 106, Cerulean wrote:In post 100, Soul2277 wrote:
One other question to ceru being why argue so much with thor who's a town lean like that?
Thors a lean town read. I get my best reads from interaction, and thors fooled me before. I'm leaning town on him, but we can argue to make sure. Besides once he realizes we're town, if he's town as I think, it will make it that much easier for town to work together and win.
I think that answers her own question fine.
And you haven't answered at all why you can't out reads now and then change them as new info flows to you. Sure you're opinion changed of me but what was it before and after. Hiding reads because they're going to change is a stupid reason.-
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Soul2277
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In post 166, Thor665 wrote:Except I didn't.
And some knowledge is no knowledge with meta - you either have knowledge you will claim awareness of or you don't. You are citing him as scummy for things I have seen him do as town and wanted to see how you defended it - and you backed off. I don't see why that matters with your Absta and Piggy commentary.
I just disagree then for the first line. End part is relevant just because it felt like you were focusing on the amount of knowledge I have with voided when it was similar to the amount I had on the other two.
@Ceru yes equinox.
@Jesse I misread it although I do think you're reaching on ceru and equinox there. Don't think it's bad to answer someone else's question if you think they're leaning town or are a town read.
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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In post 173, JesseSheffield wrote:
just came out of arationalmafiascum player's mouth. Give me some good reasoning behind that or I'm just going to assume you're not.
You arguing with someone I think is town is likely for you to suspect them unless you change your mind. I'll want you to change your mind since lynching a town read I don't want.
Anyways I've argued near identical things before:
In post 41, Mehdi2277 wrote:I think he's town. I'm going to defend him.
That's one quick example.
@Thor specify where you said why you brought it up only on him. I do want to know have you ever played with town piggy or town absta (if no then I think I understand). My focus was just understanding why you asked on voided (os dealing with his meta still being what will be done later).
~Mehdi-
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The logic behind the two for doing so is the same (and while different can you not see how the reasoning can apply to both). I can quote something that says I think answering questions is fine (I'd rather not dig through games to find that specific point). Anyways it's primarily when the question felt useless when I read it.
Jesse what do you think of people you haven't interacted with much yet?
~Mehdi-
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In post 196, Sixty wrote:Run that last part by us again.
By the by, please stop disgracing metamancy as a science with posts like 182.
He's being called scummy for the way he intentionally just tried to do something and get reads. It reminds of me of his town play in artemis fowl where he tended to change reads a lot and the same tone and post style (particularly concise posting) which again I can best describe as just acting.
And sure if I'm disgracing metamancy why don't you wow me with your meta powers and bother to explain piggy's meta more. Explaining it in rudex mafia is nice, but we're not playing that game and this is a different set of piggy posts.
Sixty you also seem to agree absta is clueless (which since it got him a read is debatable), but if you can see him as clueless and he's already explained clueless --> town do you want him to repeat himself?
Piggy a. I'm not voting anyone til OS appears, and b. I don't suspect jesse. I don't think having fairly contrary reads, actually pushing them, and having an interesting path of logic with that question to ceru are scummy.
I will say the most interesting bit of association is the number of people who can just ignore sixty without being pushed to comment on them.
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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Sixty does that mean the other head is the meta using head. Saying I don't like to use and at the same time have used meta before doesn't work. Meh, VOTE: Sixty. OS can argue with me later if he doesn't agree.
Jesse you make logic sound town. It's fairly easy to fake and that's what a lot of what sixty says is. Simple logic without bothering to take in player factors and a tendency to assume vs question and decide for a scum read. Weak, but I'm kind of missing the usual bit of set up spec I'd expect both to be able to give (weak because how this set up isn't that special but still noticeable).
Next you do know who thor is right? I called thor normal for a reason. He's a player most are paranoid for so treating it like it's a big deal is exaggerating quite a bit (or you've never played with the mastermind named thor).
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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Here voided:
In post 146, Soul2277 wrote:Specific difference wise I don't see one although meta while he's commented on piggy his experience of her to be affecting his read more (specifically she faked a pr as town)
connected to this:
In post 116, Voidedmafia wrote:I guess I can take a gander during my break in college tomorrow, though.
So what do you results show (that and I do think the main point being her willingness to fake a pr kind of shows she acts uniquely)?
As for responding to that I did. If you're expecting a complex response it doesn't really exist. It's mainly similar tone and play style (which remains best description is just act) along with how he used it to get a town read.
~Mehdi-
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In post 228, Voidedmafia wrote:Oh, sorry. Thought that was referring to your Absta meta-read, not Piggy.
Sorry for lack of clarity (since that's not what I meant). I meant I agree to disagree on piggy.
I also think ceru called sixty buddying jesse not me.
Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).
~Mehdi-
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In post 240, Sixty wrote:
OhSoul 229 wrote:Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).do tell. Go on. See what we did, and what we got, and show us the wonderful secrets we've been hiding. Preferably without lying.
I believe I already responded to this.
In post 242, Thor665 wrote:Oh you
Though, question, and I apologize ahead of time. But have we ever played a game together?Are we sharing names of alts, or not so much?
Stalker power. I've read some of your games where you were an IC, later part of Experimental role mafia and political something mafia. Reverse mafia already mentioned, a micro where you hydra'd with majiffy and likely some others I don't remember.
"Soul: Can you give an updated reads list?"
Town: Piggy = Absta > Ceru > Jesse > Equinox
Neutral: Thor (honestly town lean but I just feel paranoid on him until later game) and N
Scum: Sixty > Voided
OS should be done with v/la now so he should be talking to more later though read wise.
While I accept the voided wagon I still would rather have the sixty one. Summarizing tammy:
Piggy. Piggy interactions. Continuing from a case that feels misdirected at best and scum at worst after being attacked they've focused primarily on just defending when both can be done. They've clarified parts of the argument on piggy, but have they really continued to push their big scum read? The answer is no.
~Mehdi-
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Sixty you're really barking the wrong place. Let's quote where I responded to that (since I basically got asked the same thing twice). Arguing something that's fairly objective and easy to show wrong. Skimming too much?
In post 236, Sixty wrote:Soul2277 229 wrote:
Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).
We answered this already:
In post 238, Soul2277 wrote:And sixty I didn't say you haven't responded to it. I was asking voided what he thought of the actual response.
In post 240, Sixty wrote:Soul - People making cases in good faith don't normally ignore the truth when it compromises their comfortable reality.
Soul 229 wrote:
Lastly other main point on sixty is do you follow their reason for voting absta (which they said didn't really reveal much reaction wise and I'd expect more there).
Oh do tell. Go on. See what we did, and what we got, and show us the wonderful secrets we've been hiding. Preferably without lying.
~Mehdi-
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Except that's not what that comment was for. Anyways you voted absta and responded with this later:
"1) A chance to look active and push a counterwagon for <reason to be read into>.
2) Answering your question as posed, sheer probability suggests itself. Disregarding what specifically you asked, we wanted to see who would jump and why, not specifically drain votes from PiggyGal."
Response for 3 was:
"3) The mod PMd us with a Guilty, but we might be Insane, so etc. Looking at the thread, it more or less didn't get acknowledged - Thor didn't say a word, Voidedmafia and PiggyGal mentioned absta but didn't do anything, Cerulean didn't try to tubthump on the wagon, thus frankly as far as reactions go nothing happened."
Focusing on the end part you're result was just lack of reaction and stopped there. If you're going to push another wagon to see responses and then not analyze the meaning of lack of response (or just say what that actually meant for him) then yes it looks fake.
~Mehdi-
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Multiple people mention him as scummy but not enough to swap over and only really do so when piggy is out. Conclusion -> Trusted more then piggy, but at the same time the general paranoia is a weak town tell considering I'd think someone would defend him more earlier if he was scum.
That's one conclusion. You can reason out others, but point is lack of really analyzing something you were checking yourself is scummy. I think you're a good enough player to be able to take lack of much reactions and still draw some opinions from it.
~Mehdi-
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In post 16, PiggyGal15 wrote:I should make an alt account as ZombiePiggy, and then finally,finallypeople might stop wanting to eat me
Did you see that v/la post? Holy crap guys! Scum has seriously been caught!
(jk UNVOTE: )
I understand N bandwagoning, he likes bandwagons, but Equinox didn't even put a silly sentance in there to make me feel better about being brought to L-2 on page 1
VOTE: Equinox
Clearly a lazy band-wagoning scum looking for an easy lynch.
On my read through (page 1 don't hate me) this immediately stuck out to me...
Notice the similarities?
Ya. I'm investigating this further.
~ OS-
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As a person who walls. I find myself completely unwilling to read any of them. Like in reading a text book.
In other news, I broke my toe!
Still not done with my reread and I am going out in 10 minutes. I really am sorry I'm not giving this game te proper attention it deserves. >_> thank god I hydrad (<3 mehdi)
But seriously, I don't think I've ever seen Tierce or Vi do something like that before let alone TOGETHER-
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I think they are scum.
I have not seen Tierce or Vi ever just come out of left field and hammer someone who isn't here or who they have not been recently engaging and I highly doubt one would Do that without the consent of the other making the hammer itself that much more peculiar.
Especially given the context that Empire just post a huge ass wall addressed specifically to them that they willfully ignored in lieu of the hammer.-
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Reg explain the meta more. I'm fairly sure I fence sit more as scum then town so saying the opposite doesn't work well (that and I see a bigger easier difference to spot between my current play and other town play so it's strange you're missing it in your meta reading). Along with why only skim my scum games (or only mention them)? The entire meta thing on me is really weak.
Sheep ceru more on sixty same there like usual. And how were they not obv town before then? I realize you couldn't have spoken about the game but similar to tammy's early piggy thing you could have pushed them as town more without mentioning that (and with one of you being mod of the game means the reason I didn't know their alignment til game end doesn't work since Vi could just push ceru as obv town more when talking to tierce). Kind of even goes against the past piggy read. Really though our arguments are mostly circular at this point. Plus acting like voided's flip isn't obvious based on his reaction to being hammered.
Piggy depends on OS spending time explaining his scum read on her when his internet likes him more.
~Mehdi-
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In post 433, Soul2277 wrote:I realize you couldn't have spoken about the game
This applies both to here and in the hydra itself. Considering piggy's essentially had a town case given for her in thread vi writing one without ever mentioning or hinting the other game is perfectly doable with 0 comprising of a game.
~Mehdi-
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Regfan + Faraday, I am pretty sure you guys never read me right when I am town and you are proving my point by thinking I would bus Sixty.
I'm not even joking, bussing is so unorthodox in this type of open that it has become orthodox. It is fuckin dumb and I find it offensive you think I would do it as scum.
More later. A lot of classes today-
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In post 444, Justin Timberlake wrote:In post 443, Soul2277 wrote:Regfan + Faraday, I am pretty sure you guys never read me right when I am town and you are proving my point by thinking I would bus Sixty.
I'm not even joking, bussing is so unorthodox in this type of open that it has become orthodox. It is fuckin dumb and I find it offensive you think I would do it as scum.
More later. A lot of classes today
lol except sixty weren't getting lynched so it'd be more distancing than bussing but OK
FUCK YOU
Those were the very words that came out of YOUR fuckimg hydra mouth. You were having a "convo" with reg saying that Sixty and I were cross bussing.
Do you want me to quote it? Stop trying to slander our name when it was you who fucking said it.-
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Faraday seriously you are pissing me off. You are reaching MoI levels of antagonization ad quite frankly I've had enough of that to last me for a lifetime.
I haven't read the thread completely so even if I did present reads I am sure you'd fucking twist it an spin them to fit your own needs. I had already planned on leaving BEFORE you even responded so don't give me that crap that I am leaving when you asked me for reads. I'm not fake raging this is legitimate anger. I don't expect this from you or Regfan. Yes Mehdi voted but that doesn't mean I had no involvement. It's a fucking hydra. He asked me if it was okay to vote Sixty and I said yes. Do you want me to show you our hydra logs because I will do if it will stop you from acting all high and mighty like this.
Honestly this scenario is almost exactly like god damn dirty dealing where MoI was so convinced we were scum because we had a differing read on him.
If you really want a read from me Farday it's that I think you are scum if Sixty is scum. You are twisting my words in a way that I have never seen from your town play and you are being an asshole about on top of it. Your words about us being scum belies that you somehow "know" for a fact that Sixty is scum. You are tryin to fucking tie us to a sinking ship hence all of your twisting of words.
Let me ask you this question, what is your opinion of Sixty if Voided flips mafia?
Now fuck off and I'll be back later.-
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In post 437, Justin Timberlake wrote:
I skimmed them because I had a horrible headache and a lack of real time to sit in and do the reading and stated I was planning on reading them in much greater detail later (Probably sometime in the next few hours) but I said all that in Post 402 so this just comes across as you attempting to chip away de-crediting us by saying 'the meta is weak!' when I haven't even had a chance to go through it properly. And mentioning the links were so Empire could have a chance to read them too so we could actually talk about it properly rather than with less than full information.
It is weak. There's a difference between a small bit of good content and a small bit of just bad content. I still do want clarification on how I assert more as scum (last I checked I had 0 scum reads except for bussing until lylo in one of my scum games, was scum for two days in another and didn't really convince anyone and just played weak, and then open 443 which is the only one I could see I asserted somewhat even though I still got lynched day 1).
@Sixty in reference to how ceru suspected piggy but then when a game ended tammy was in read changed (and that unlike her not knowing alignment doesn't fit as a reason to push it). I just disagree with the remainder. If you have a town read it should be clearly stated and agreed upon.
JT, I'll let OS fight his war (you're honestly both being stubborn on something minor right now and are just distracting). I will say reads wise I gave them pretty clearly a while ago and only one that's split (and remains so until we're both online at the same time) is piggy.
Thor reasoning behind the vote? In your words I don't grok it.
Ceru either have tammy explain her read on me or you do for her.
As for sixty past applies. VOTE: Sixty
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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I think fighting over semantics is you two being pretty stubborn (the root cause of this argument) nor was the yelling match worth much (especially when outside of that OS agreed with me on your slot). Already said I'll let OS deal with actual war on you (partly because I haven't talked to him since yesterday). If you want to ask a question that relies on that ask me after he shows up again or just to him. That and comment to my response on the meta would be nice.
~Mehdi-
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Soul2277 Goon
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- Posts: 573
- Joined: October 5, 2012
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