New York 180 (Endgame)

[Kitz]

So yeah, here's a fun plot-twist.
Thanks Marq for ruining WIFOM to make others slip, I'm just going to say it right out.
Now that it's revealed, Scum will just use that information too.

I believe Marq Town-Slipped.

Whatever - lynch me then - I am

VT

i'm vt,

or "citizen"

. my final switch back to fa_q2 yesterday was me being dumb and thinking fa_q2's

"vt" claim was fake

due to him being scum being

forgetful/unaware of the actual normal town role.

I'm a Citizen, not VT. The fact that Marquis also uses that odd "vt" and "citizen" wording makes him informative aware of the VT Flavor provided by the host.
The reason you voted FA was because of exactly this, correct?

I believe some Scum might be blind to the fact, and just use the cultured names of the role due to the repetitive "Newbie" thing.

Also, why I didn't initially suspect Marquis is because of his Dumb-Slip, seeming a bit clueless / confused as the game went on, until we told him what's actually wrong.

How can you 'refine' a VT claim???

Failed a Spot-Check.

---

That said, I'm just going to be real blunt here.
I suspect SilverWolf, goodmorning and Shinobi.

I also believe that T S O is being too forceful about this, and he could actually just be wrong about his read.

Again I'd like to say this : Meta is bullshit, and can be manipulated at all times. If meta is the sole reason anyone is scum / town, you're in for an illusion and manipulation.

Here's some things you can look up on your own : Associatives, Buddying, Informative, Too Town To Live, Protected Class, Voting Reluctance.

[Kitz]

Dropping a bunch of catchwords and saying that three people are scum without explaining why isn't going to cut it

I already gave a reason and you chose to completely ignore it. I think everyone did.
Gee, logic doesn't work. I disown the idea of "confirmed based on meta", too easy to slip under the radar and manipulate.

[Kitz]

Why exactly are you scumreading Silver, Kitz?

Case on Wolf :

Everyone is townreading her absolute due to the meta, even though there's been hiccups in the behavior which caused some to scumread before it magically vanished back as it adjusted appropriate.
In addition, an oddly protected class case. Why is someone this towny who has no potential lynch in sight, roaming free? Scum would just really want everyone other than themselves to be lynchworthy. If it's 1v2 and she's around as actual town, it would mean 1 town and 1 scum as potential lynches instead of 2 towns and a scum.
This is a red button, with a reverse-thought that reason they haven't died might be due to them being scum.

I'll repeat this tho : I suspect, but don't scumread. Scumlean?

If you guys want to argue this, just explain the lack of kills, together with a "Vigi" shooting alone while No One claims being healed.

[Kitz]

Now that you mention it... I really hope it's not another case of ABR Syndrome.

[Kitz]

Town = Marquis, GM, Silver

What makes SilverWolf on the "totally town" list?

---

Just because someone is a neighbourizer doesn't mean they're a confirmed town.
Curious, is it normal that they're able to talk during day? *
If scum can talk during day in a secluded chat, they're far more powerful.
This is the reason why I think so :

I'm a 1-Day only variant, apparently.

[Kitz]

Elusive, what's your opinion abot my unpopular thoughts and opinions?

[Kitz]

You're forgiven by me.

[Kitz]

So, here's a question :

If Viking lied just to cred himself, would it mean there's just 2 kills as opposed to 3?
When we can say that's the actual truth, how much weight does the SK thing hold?

Poking a hole in this whole thing, one does not need a master plan, but to just go on with it.

Also, random question. What Non-SK neutral killers are accepted in Normal Large?

[Kitz]

Not even a

Spoiler:

wall scum-case that we can read and reffer to any time?

[Kitz]

ctually he's more likely to be groupscum than he is to be SK at this point, imo.

With who?

[Kitz]

I am actually close to screaming irl.

Well, if this cheers you, just saying that I believe your efforts on trying to find scum.

[Kitz]

Marquis isn't happening and I'm the alternative.

Well, how about... making so you're not the alternative? Should be obvious to defend yourself, nay?

[Kitz]

I think the best interest is to shoot GM so it can confirm the 2 others as town, OR as scum.
Unpopular opinion, but confirm outweights a lot.

[Kitz]

How does it confirm them? Goodmorning isn't a Friendly Neighbouriser, which would make them conftown. She's just a Neighbouriser.

Well, cut a bit of it then.

I think the best of our interest is to shoot GM to confirm if it's a whole scum team claiming to be neighbourizing (lie), or not.
If GM flips scum with no neighbour role, the ultimate red button.

[Kitz]

T S O, I have a question.
Do you read Wolf as a Town? If so, why?

[Kitz]

This is perplexing and confusing.
My vote stays.

Shímöby needs to stop going all "Ermagud I told you gaiz already ahmaaagahwd I told you, just fewking read oooooohgod".

[Kitz]

So... He's L1?

[Kitz]

T S O, I have a question.
Let's say we get a scum and you manage to kill another scum, which leaves down to 3, would you accept being lynched if it's necessary since if you don't die?

I'm thinking ahead on what the players here would try.

[Kitz]

SilverWolf, can we have a X Time notification before a hammer?
Say you intend to hammer in like 30 minutes or an hour, we'd at least be notified and (somewhat) prepared, instead of a "yoink hammer BB M8".

[Kitz]

So either situation Shin is town?

[Kitz]

My scumgame sucks sorry team

So you're the Mafia.
Can you tell us one thing?

Is Piss, from your team?

[Kitz]

Plz answer Aero.

[Kitz]

After a quick read, I see some suggests to shoot me.

If you must, go ahead then. However, I did a major dumbslip / townslip, so keep that on the conscience.

[Kitz]

If you decide to kill me, will you take my reads serious?

[Kitz]

This game is fucking weird with the lack of kills and the sudden burst of kills early on. Is it possible for the Mafia to be a PR unable to kill because they are a PR?

[Kitz]

Well, I claim that I was not neighborized. Process of elemination.

So here's my absolutely terrific theory. There's two mafia factions with two members, Piss died leaving his team with just 1 guy left, and now Aero dead his team is also 1 guy left.
If this affects their ability of killing by being solo, then it can make sense... I think this is my best theory so far and ready to be butchered anytime.

P-Edit : Wouldn't the Vig claim being RB'd as Vig#1 or counterclaim if it's Vig#2?

[Kitz]

Since T S O is dat guy who's either SK or Vig, we can safely assume that his intend to kill is true.
Could it be that GM is a bulletproof role / scum?

[Kitz]

Wouldn't a Scum Neighborizer with a Scum Doc justify the amount of power to the town?

[Kitz]

As weird of a setup it is, we can just call it Expert Level Setup.
Should be more satisfying to win thinking you won a higher difficulty.

Just for motivation sake. You look a bit dry on energy.

I have one question : Is either of these roles possible in Normal? Kill visitors, Multi-Direction-Shot.

[Kitz]

On the hypothetical scenario that Viking lied, could you be roleblocked and we can assume that there were really just 2 attacks that night instead of one?
I'd rather believe not.

[Kitz]

I wonder if scum is just as confused as us.

[Kitz]

There's no jail... Otherwise town is even more OP.

[Kitz]

What's the VC?

[Kitz]

Cheer up and move on, I don't want to see some fight.
That said, I'm suspicious about the whole GM

Neighbour Ring

.

Would it be best to lynch GM to confirm roles? Being a scum, big red alert to the other "neighbours", and if town then we can drop off the suspicion on the "neighbours" based on the neighbour thing itself.
The attack by T S O already failed, and I don't see a reason for him to lie as Vig or SK on the situation.

GM didn't vote on Aero so that might help a bit.

[Kitz]

Can you please forgive eachothers? I don't want to see friends become unfriends.

[Kitz]

First the ultimate trolling with ABR, the episode with Math, and Viking, and the modkill of NJ, and now this...



Elusive, I understand how you feel, but I'd like to ask you to not vent it out on the public. Maybe you can do this in PM after the game?

It's awkward to witness, and I feel uneasy. I'd rather have you in the game, but I don't want to see this.

[Kitz]

Because I didn't feel there was much point.

VOTE: Goodmorning

I'm sorry but the paranoia has overflown.
By not expanding, you make sure to keep to a "certain group of players".

If I were you, I'd continue with more players to prove it's not just a scum team and that anyone can be part of.

[Kitz]

It's not a group. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that's only open the Day after the Night I Neighbourise them in.

Has this not been clear?

The issue is that you have a select amount of players floating about in the neighbourhood.
Potentially, all of these could be scum with you, faking the concept of neighbourhood.

That's why it would be critical for you to expand it to more players, to confirm that you're actually a neighbourhood and not just a sillywilly scumteam.

It doesn't matter how it goes, team factions can pull this off.

I even crumbed this logic to the game multiple times that this needs to be confirmed, yet you go all "Nay, I don't feel like it, no point".

Reason that I believe there can actually be that many mafia, is based on the amount of TPR.

[Kitz]

Rest In Peace, Elusive.

Hmmmmmmmmmmhnhg can we move on? You guys wanted to take Elusive for whatever reason.

[Kitz]

Uh. So.

What do I need to know?

N1 Boon the Doc and Piss the Roleblocker died, Viking the Cop claimed to be roleblocked and attacked.
ABR gamethrew.
NakedJogger got modkilled.
T S O claims Vigilante.
Has only been one kill the nights ever since night one.

[Kitz]

No, it's a new thread every time. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that opens ONE DAY ONLY.

I don't know how I can make this clearer.

Are you ignorant on purpose?

If all of you are scum together, then obviously the Neighbour thing can be forged and you can claim it's a thing, but it isn't.

[Kitz]

Are you saying you think GC is Scum?

Is the reason because "SW is town"?
The reason of that was pure based on meta, it's not something I'll take in consideration.

She's been under the radar pretty much the entire game, did some personality slips before adjusting, but still under the radar.
Being the ultra-obvious-town why are scum not killing her? Note lack of kills for a long time, the scum should find different targets if it ain't working out.

The thing about you seem to have "magically vanished" too. Why ain't you dead? You're supposed to be dead because of T S O.

It's highly suspicious that you didn't target a different player to join the neighbourhood to confirm the facts of neighbour other than the potential scum-circle.
By being ignorant of the issue, it'll make me look more towards your direction as scum for attempting to avoid the whole thing.
I'm actually more suspicious that you don't try to "understand", and instead argue that the others are town. This game is quite different.

Ohhhh by the way Elusive flipped a Commuter, if you forgot.

Aaaand why are we even pushing for SK's? Why is T S O off the radar on that one? We have a Vig or a potential SK under control, so the whole attack on Elusive made no sense.

I'd rather believe T S O on his attempt of killing GM and the reason he's alive is because..? 2 doctors are dead who NOTE are non-consecutive, there's a flipped commuter, a vengeful, tracker, debuty, cop, and all we know of is an opposing mere goon and a roleblocker.
Where does a Neighbour fit in with such a powerful setup? Vigi seems just as unlikely, but Neighbour is far unlikely now.

The lack of kills, and eventual lack of protection, doesn't warrant an excuse of you living.

I should renew my vote. Your flip is the first piece of the puzzle.
VOTE: Goodmorning

[Kitz]

also kitz the neighborizer itself is pretty dumb to doubt exists. whether the role as gm is/is using it is town or scum is the main issue

Wouldn't a flip help in any case? T S O attempted to kill, and failed.

[Kitz]

I'd lynch Ozgin > gm.

Make a TLDR case while you're here, why?

[Kitz]

If you want to make a scumcase on me because of what others did, you should vote me or ISO me instead of using others.
I don't really understand the cases made on me early game, really.

[Kitz]

What's your read list Ozzie?

[Kitz]

Kitz - Null - I honestly haven't read you yet. SW gave me points for why you might be town, but I don't totally buy them.

"Hey, my neighbour told me someone is town and gave me points, but I don't buy it.

Better not read her!

"

[Kitz]

you haven't even cared about this game.

I have cared for majority of the game. There was a point I was at neutral mood, but it was because of the fuckups made by the others.
That's a rather bold claim of you. You've just basically said I don't care, at all, at any point, of the game.

Maybe you're the one who doesn't care?

[Kitz]

This game is going directions.

[Kitz]

Why are you not mentioning the stuff about House and me, and why not quoting this? If you want to consider scumreading me on associations...

I'm voting Kitz because I'm unsure if Elusive's on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm.

[Kitz]

What stuff about House and you?

You're antagonizing me by attempting to associate me with Piss because he voted me and saying "it's for no reason".
From what I see, in the game he played the "I scumread House", and because House said he couldn't read me then Piss voted on me because of that statement, and House was like "Why don't you vote me instead?"

If anything, you should look at House and his replacement Ozgin.

Meh, I can't read Kitz.

If we get close to deadline and need a lynch I'll hammer.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Looking over the wagon that built up on it, I actually do like most of the names voting for her (NJ, Grib, SW), so fine.

VOTE: Kitz

What makes you refer to a post 30 pages ago as your sole reason to vote? And why did it come right after the flashwagon on Kitz?

vote: Kitz

If I'm a scumread of yours, why aren't you voting me instead of the latest wagon that cropped up out of nowhere?

I'm voting Kitz because I'm unsure if Elusive's on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm.

Busted. I'm scum and Kitz is totally my buddy. Damn you and your meddling dog!

[Kitz]

I know. I'm still waiting for Marquis to give his case because I don't like the Ozgin wagon and I'm having trouble finding alternatives.

Why is it such a huge deal with Ozgin for you? Just curious.

[Kitz]

Alright.

I'm the town 3-shot vig.

TSO is lying and is the SK.

VOTE: TSO

Extremely suspicious for the overly long delay of the counterclaim.
Claiming 3-shot is also counter-productive, with no more basis. Where did your shots go? Why is there an absurd amount of kills?

VOTE: Green Crayons

[Kitz]

I'm not townreading your slot and has been suspicious of it for majority of the game.
We have also established things about T S O, and the lack of a counterclaim has been far too long.

I may conclude you might be a mafia killer.

P-Edit : Have you seen how this game have gone? I'm probably the only one who can see past that.
Your slot : Protective, "super town" by absolutely everyone, has not even been attempted for being murdered. If I were scum, that slot would have been gone far early. Neither SK or Mafia wants some "confirmed town" in meta-sense or play-sense roaming about.

[Kitz]

I don't even know what things you're referring to regarding TSO.

Further proof that I don't know what the hell is going on. I just know that TSO is SK and I am 3-shot vig.

How do we know you're not a mafia, and probably allied with Ozgin, hmm?
3-shot vig with no basis, yeah... Good job there.

You know, wouldn't Scum already have discovered this role by now? Yeah, another case of "too town, too un-touched".

My suggestion, instead of taking the excuse of "I don't have an idea of what is going on", and "I just know X is 3P", read the game.
Here's a clue : There's far too many TPR. We assume the mafia is very powerful. There was 3 attacks in the fight night, one survived with claim Roleblocked and Healed. There was 2 doctors in this game. There was also a Cop and a Deputy. Town Tracker and a Vengeful. All we seen flip scum, is a roleblocker and a goon mafia.

Your slot has also scumread a few town.

[Kitz]

Here's a quiz for you :

If you have 3 bullets, why is there a lack of kills (3 attacks night 1, 1 kill per night after)?
Why werren't the super-scummy players killed?
Why can T S O claim Non-Consecutive?

You should have a Neighbor who would tell you stuff. It would be quite a stretch to replace in a game and not even told what your actions were.
A 3-shot vigi in a setup with (Flipped) a Tracker, Cop+Deputy, Vengeful, 2x Non-Consecutive Doctors, a Commuter. Only two Citizen has flipped (Mind you, not VT), and majority of us has just claimed that.
Goodmorning has claimed Neighbourizer, which again is just absurd with all these players, and didn't neighbourize more players out of the neighbour ring, which pinged me a red alarm to that these could in fact be a Scum Circle claiming neighbour (but isn't) just to give the illusion of that. It were extremely obvious that he should've neighbourized more.
T S O claimed Non-Consecutive Vigilante, and he claimed attacking GM who didn't die for whatever reason, and regardless of Vigi/SK we have to take that as truth that he can't kill scum.

See the problem now?

P-Edit :
@ GC, god. Anyone can claim Pisskop. NEXT?
@ GM I would absolutely not be surprised by a 5man mafia team. Why else is one a stupid role Goon in such a powerful town setup?
@ GC again, if it's GM, T S O is the one who claimed it first. Shouldn't SW have claimed by then?

[Kitz]

There was also a N4 target who is still alive.

which is who exactly? No reason to hold back now.

The reason no one was named is so they could finese their claim after someone gave them appropriate information. Scummy as hell.

[Kitz]

Honestly? N4 and N1 claim? This means that out of N2 and N3, either one or two was skipped.
This makes absolutely no sense as the shots were mandatory both of these days for the super-scummy players at that time.

[Kitz]

Why would the shots be mandatory n2 & n3

Remember the ABR & Math incident?

[Kitz]

Why would the shots be mandatory n2 & n3

Remember the ABR & Math incident?

Oh shit, I just said it loud.

Now they're going to claim having to shot Math.

[Kitz]

What about them

ABR gamethrew claiming 182510285 different roles and claims, and Math screamed, roared and screamed more about wanting to be lynched, while trolling around.

[Kitz]

Seems to me that of tso was a serial killer abr would have been killed night 1. A claimed cop is no threat to a SK. A claimed tracker is.

A claimed Tracker, who retracts into a VT after reading the PM wrongly from another game (which in itself is Bad Bad Bad to mention), then retracts into a Cop, who then retracted back into a Tracker.

[Kitz]

What if Ozgin and SW were scum together? Just saying.

[Kitz]

We might... y'know... No-Lynch and watch the world burn as the two vig claimers attack eachothers?

[Kitz]

My vote STAYS on GC.
That's 1 less against T S O.

[Kitz]

Ozgin is the 3-shot vig. His discussion in the PT looks super genuine, and I believe him 100%.

I claimed so scum would kill me tonight so I can get out of this game. And so you lot wouldn't lynch Ozgin today. But I'm not going to suffer a mislynch because town lynches a counter-claimer WHO HAS NO REASON TO FAKE COUNTERCLAIM.

But then why didn't Ozzie claim?
Now I really suspect the two of you lel.

Vote stays.

[Kitz]

kitz for mafia, tso for sk

Seems legit, mafia defending a SK.
Next shitty theory plz.

Hm, should I vote Ozgin or keep it at GJ...

[Kitz]

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

[Kitz]

We already established that T S O is a possible Vigi or a SK, meaning he's not the Mafia.
There were supposed to be a CC for ages and there never were. If it's the true Vigi, they did a very anti-town thing.

The way these two buddy, it could either be an orcestrated lie that they made, or... Well, they're more likely Mafia than SK, which is who we want to bring down.
The SK won't kill the town yet.

For all we know, neither SW or Oz would even claim Vig in the first place.

[Kitz]

For something completely different, I give this game 10/10 for the confusion.

I again say that I don't want to see TSO lynched yet. I'm moving my vote to Ozgin. If there's a true neighbour thing but that Ozgin is a Scum, GC could be defending unknowingly.
VOTE: Ozgin

[Kitz]

I held my shot last night

Maybe I took a random shot because this is my first time being the vig, and I got both trigger-happy and lucky. Speculation as to why I took my shot is so fucking stupid, it's numbing.

last bullet

GC already said my shots. I killed pisskop and whiff'd on elusive

You claim to have killed Piss? Wasn't that House at that time?
You held a shot? Let's see, three shot, so it means you shot Piss. You had a shot on Elusive. You claim this is also the Last Bullet.

There was also a N4 target who is still alive.

elusive was N4

Piss N1, Elusive N4.
Why didn't you shoot ABR, Math, NJ, FA? Why did Scum have to be the ones to do those killings and everyone to do the lynching?
Why did it even have to be Elusive?

[Kitz]

Also, didn't Elusive claim 1st and 3rd night action? Or am I remembering wrong? If that's the case, the 4th would be a kill. Anyways, off I am again.

[Kitz]

I asked a million fucking times about 3P being something else than SK and all of you said SK is the only acceptable role.
This changes

everything

.

Everyone denied the "Visit Kill Role" suggestion.

I think GC is town. I realised that he could have been a manipulated town and Ozgin is the true bad one.
Either way, the manner and the way it was done made me completely tunnel the pair.
Wasn't I also the one who pushed from GC to Ozgin? I could've stayed with GC.

I'm moving my vote to Ozgin. If there's a true neighbour thing but that Ozgin is a Scum, GC could be defending unknowingly.
VOTE: Ozgin

There were supposed to be a CC for ages and there never were. If it's the true Vigi, they did a very anti-town thing.

"Defending unknowingly" = a town defending scum situation.

---

Unvote

guys

guys seriously why so quick

This makes me confused, would scum unvote at this point with a vote so close? I dunno at this point.

I just don't really feel like Kitz is scum. :/

GM : Town points for unvoting me, I'm not sure how I can interpret the whole ordeal about linking Piss with me, without checking the rest of the things, like if it's an excuse to get me. That combined by the UP mafia roles and OP town roles, logic just says this one is scum based on roles. Hmm. But MM isn't normal, so exceptions?
GC : Town points for fucking up with Ozgin, could genuine be a town who was verbally manipulated.
Cheetory : Town points for not wanting to lynch me, could've hammered me.
Dragon : Null, but the nature of him seems towny.
Shinobi : Scum points for not voting at all since the Elusive vote, has points against Oz but never voted him.
Marquis : Town points for not keeping the vote and moving votes. Scum points for not having a better case on me, suggests I'm dumbtown but would lynch anyway.

Conclusion from my point of view, Shinobi could be the remaining scum. If there's another scum, I'd like to FoS on GM but only when the game drags on after another scum flip.

Also, seriously? I have screamed all this fucking game that Meta is bullshit. You're associating me with Piss out of the blue as an early bus, I counter-logiced it with the circumstance that something's wrong with House and you should look there instead, and now you use House Meta against me? That's some meta bullshit right there.

VOTE: Shinobi

[Kitz]

About the visit thingie that I asked a million times.

Spoiler:

Oh wait. I get it.
It's possible it's a role that kills all visitors. Provoke everyone.
... I don't even think it's that.

1. Three attacks.
2. Healed, two deaths.
3. Single attack two nights.
= Visited a visit-killer. That's possible, right?

I still have that theory about a visit killer... If that's possible.

I have one question : Is either of these roles possible in Normal? Kill visitors, Multi-Direction-Shot.

Am I really the only one who's able to think outside the box here?

Anyways, soon off to the doctor so I won't be around for a bit.

[Kitz]

OH LOOK A SCUMCLAIM

How is that a scum claim? I think you're just tunneling me at this point.
If this was a scum claim, I'd be all like "Hey fucks, I'm the actual serial killer".

I don't disagree, but I think there's more evidence for Kitz.

Nobody's said anything about anyone's meta.

How about, shut up? Your tunneling is rather blatant and annoying now, with excuses and tunnel-slips everywhere.
If you want to get me, be more constructive and stop contradicting yourself. Here's the 2 most recent examples on meta on House.

I should probably see if House claimed Scum with anyone other than Kitz.

Meta 1. This is Your piece of the meta. Otherwise, you wouldn't see it as a meta thing, it's a House related thing.

house busses his scum buddies like crazy when he is scum. I can see his sarcastic comments being truthful

Meta 2.

[Kitz]

Honestly, if it wasn't for that unvote, I'd tunnel the hell out of you.
If you were scum, that was the most stupid move you could've done.

This troubles me :
If this is the town, unwilling to look at player's claims and just sheep/tunnel, Town will not get anywhere at all.
In that case, I might randomly vote myself and watch scum jump on, because I'm not going to cooperate if half the players are uncooperative and unproductive to the actual game.

[Kitz]

You backseat too much, you reserve the votes too much, you have objected the wrong players, you have scumread the wrong players, some of your reasoning didn't make sense at all, your reaction on my poking with you on a stick were a very big blast from you as if you thought I were a cop who found you guilty of scum.

[Kitz]

Except none of that is true.


What is this nonsense?

B PLZ

Spoiler:

you reserve the votes too much

Didn't vote at all since this vote, who mind you, were town, and it looked sheepishly.

my first thought was some sort of jailkeep

also this spec is ridiculous

VOTE: elusive

only thing i'm doing today

bye

I was literally about to post the same thing.

VOTE: elusive

Let's get this done.

---

you have objected the wrong players

I know. I'm still waiting for Marquis to give his case because I don't like the Ozgin wagon and I'm having trouble finding alternatives.

The Ozgin push reads as a bunch of garbage but so does the TSO push.

---

your reaction on my poking with you on a stick were a very big blast from you as if you thought I were a cop who found you guilty of scum.

I've also got a bone to pick with Kitz but I accept the fact that I could be biased in that regard. I don't know where her townread on me from earlier came from and it seems like her scumread is based on me not talking to other people, so I don't really know how that could affect her read.

Shin's scummier too.

And I'm taking kitz off of my townlean list for her #2402.

Lmao no it doesn't. You've been listing me as scummy for stupid bullshit since the start of day 2, and kept putting me as scummier because of imaginary reasons afterwards.

That's when you don't have reason. "Stupid bullshit" is "he's scummier"? Couldn't you have said that? You did not even see the reasons.

I want to kill Kitz.

Kitz is annoying me again.

Poking "Nobody Special", "Shinoby", "T S O" and "Aeronaut".

Literally the worst scumlist of all time.

I found it suspicious that Kitz kept coming up with 50 billion excuses to scumread me which gets tiring after a while. I have issues sorting newer players attacking me sometimes since it's hard for me to tell if them being wrong is a matter of newness or scumness.

So if we don't lynch either of those two players, who do we lynch?

I propose Kitz. It will be fun, if nothing else.

(I'm aware that feels don't make someone town but, with Kitz' life on the line, why not take a chance?)

I'd be pressing the issue harder if I didn't have the opportunity to get people to lynch Kitz.

I've also explained that killing Kitz would be grand because she keeps calling me mafia for little to nothing, and it seems like she keeps coming up with excuses to scumread me. She's been on about lynching me since day 1 and hasn't really ever gotten to it nor has she had any interest in questioning me.

And it suddenly evolved to "Since day 1".

The third, I didn't push a lynch on you.

Here's my read on you : You're not endangered. You have biased opinions. You have selective reading. You're defending lynchbaits and scummy players in a very oddly neutral way. Because of my poking and suspecting of you, you're now passive-aggressive and semi-tunnel on me, with just that as a basis and none else.

Because I'm conflicted about you, I'll leave this vote here. You say I've been meaning to lynch you, but here's the thing : I have never voted on you, until now.
VOTE: Shinobi

Everything you post is stupid.

Nobody fucking cares what you think about the interactions or how they matter at all. Kitz is voting me for bullshit as of right now and she was on the exact same spot on your lynch list as I was, and it didn't seem to bother you at all.

I can see these are words but I don't see how they coincide with actual things.

*Where is the lack of initiative?
*Where is the lack of direct discussion on "appropriate things" and where do you think my attention should be?
*Why does me "freaking out" about how many votes I have make me scum?

[Kitz]

Read the fucking game you moron.

VOTE: Kitz

[Kitz]

I didn't even consider a reflexive element to the SK as being a possibility, though it does seem the logical conclusion now it's been brought up.

You knew there was one. So, looking back, did Ozgin.

It's the explanation of the first night, it's logical. Stop turning logic against me.

[Kitz]

Stop turning logic against me.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously. 3 attacks on first night and then either 1 or none. I was either thinking mass murderer (I couldn't find it on the wiki), so I thought it was the town role (off-site names) veteran / grandma / hateful. Everyone said no, one way or another.

[Kitz]

3weird5me

It's a standard role where I'm from, and some other places.
At least it wasn't an electromanaic, gambit, strangulator, professor, demolist, zombie, spectre, engineer, devourer, satanist, warlock.

[Kitz]

Mass murder though is very much a real role.

Will you share its variant? There's the visit variant, the house variant, and both.

[Kitz]

Here's one piece of information I know about mass murderers.

The normal variation kills whoever rests at a location, so everyone who visits that target is at a location and if target has targeted another they have moved to a different location.
Killing more than one puts them to a cooldown unable to act for a while.

If that's the one, it leaves the question : Why did all these get attacked?
1. Boon visited Viking.
2. Piss roleblocked Viking.
3. Viking couldn't move due to roleblock.
= Boon, Viking and Piss got attacked, healing Viking.

That's 3 attacks with two kills, which should trigger the MM's cooldown.

[Kitz]

I fucking solved N1.

[Kitz]

I fucking solved N1.

which increases your odds of being scum since they already knew the night actions.

Stop this antagonizing.

Viking claimed roleblocked and healed.
Piss died a roleblocker.
Boon died a doctor.

Anyone can see it.

[Kitz]

Killed :
N1
- Pisskop - Maifa Non-consecutive Roleblocker killed night 1
- Boonskiies - Town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 1
- Viking (attacked & healed)
= All by T S O. Where's the mafia kill? It went on T S O?
= All visited Viking and Viking couldn't move.

N2
-Ellie - Town deputy turned cop killed night 2
= Mafia. Can visit.

Mathblade - Town vengeful killed night 3
= Mafia? Or MM? Cannot visit.

Nobody Special town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 4
= Mafia if heal N2 and N4 (Visit N4), or add in possible MM if N1, N3. (No visit N4)

T S O - Mass Murder Killed night 6
= Mafia.

Lynched :
- Klingoncelt town citizen lynched day 1
- vikingfan - Town Cop lynched day 2
- Albert B. Rampage - Town Tracker lynched Day 3.
- FA_Q2 - town citizen lynched day 4
- Aeronaut - Mafia Goon lynched day 5
- Ozgin - Mafia goon/Neighbor - lynched day 6

Honestly I'm probably going to vote Kitz. How long I take to vote is up to you guys.

Then why did I defend T S O so much if I'm mafia as opposed to getting him lynched?

[Kitz]

Theory #1
T S O claimed having attacked GM, but didn't succeed.
If GM is a mafia neighbourizer, he could be the one to attack, meaning he visited.

[Kitz]

If GM is a mafia neighbourizer, he could be the one to attack, meaning he visited.

Ozgin were a Neighbour to a town. What's the fucking point if two mafia were neighbours together? GC cleared.
GM as a Neighbourizer who hasn't done much afterwards... And coincidentally T S O died.

Neighbours are capable of manipulating and influencing the town.

I really believe T S O, because he did not have anything to loose in his statement about GM being attacked.
Scum would've been attacked if they attacked the same target as the MM. (post night 1).

VOTE: goodmorning

[Kitz]

Yeah, I'm certain it's GM now because of that logic actually makes a lot of sense.
If one more scum flips and this game continues, I'm at a complete blank at who the next one could be.

[Kitz]

So let me get this straight, everyone wants to lynch me and doesn't even understand or wish to even see the logic.
FUCKIT
If this is how it is going to be, then I cannot convince otherwise and scum has just won anyway. Logic is god damn banned.
Citizen/VT, non-neighbourized, no clues.

VOTE: Kitz

/lurk

[Kitz]

You've not been using anything that remotely resembles logic lately. And that outburst we completely emotional, much lime ozgins before we lynched him

Nah, I just don't want to play if everyone refuses actual logic.
Everyone refuse to look into that I initiated the lynch towards Oz, and other things.

For example, you don't like the following logic.

Code: Select all

T S O is a Mass Murderer.
Mass Murderer kills those in a location.
Those who don't target, are in their own location.
T S O attacked GM, GM is alive.
Therefor, GM could be a scum who attacked someone.
It resulting in moving to a different location and avoid the attack.
GM claimed not targeting anyone either.

[Kitz]

you make a good point. I'll rethink it.

plz I only repeated it

what logic? Seeing rambling. Not much logic to it.

You've not been using anything that remotely resembles logic lately

[Kitz]

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

[Kitz]

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

Elaborate. Composition? Doc?

[Kitz]

In a different post, you claimed of having not neighbourized anyone the night T S O intended to attack you, because you did not feel like it.

Just saying.

[Kitz]

VOTE: goodmorning

[Kitz]

Though, it'd be great if Kitz started saying more things

I already said what I can say, and no one cares about it.
My logic and deduction is not adequate in any shape apparently.

[Kitz]

I already said what I can say, and no one cares about it.
My logic and deduction is not adequate in any shape apparently.

K.
Why are you voting for GM then?
Who are you townreading and who are you scumreading and why?
Why not try to engage people?

I feel this line of questiioning is very disconnected and missing the main point of mine.
I said no one cares about it, and see, no one even bothers to look it up. Reduces chance for me to engage with others because they don't listen / care.

Why do I scumread GM is what I post here :

I already deduced the logic behind the night actions and GM makes both contradictions and excuses.
1. I breadcrumbed for GM to neighbour someone, didn't because "omg reasons", even though it was very important.
2. Claims to have attempted to neighbour a dead target, which means no claim to it.
3A. T S O has no reason to lie that he did try to kill GM but failed.
3B. It failed because GM was sendt to do the kill so GM wasn't at "home". Refer MM mechanic.
Obviously also was the one to kill T S O.

Due to the apathy and how the game runs, I'm more or less inclined to just vote self because logic is banned.

[Kitz]

For refference, look at

#6367
#6334

[Kitz]

Are you so convinced that GM is scum that nobody else in this game matters anymore?

Town paranoia fuel syndrome.

Why am I not hammered yet? Scum would do that. Multiple opporturnies, still no hammer.
The list with that cuts short with just Dragon and GM, and GM is the most questionable of all the players.

Look, Shin there could've voted me, and you too. Unless you're some high-adrenaline scum ofc.

SK

NOPE

Quiz : What is T S O's role and his mechanic?
This is extremely important.

---

I chose to believe a 3P because he knows who the other Scum is and did fail an attack, he was in a full situation that required him to help the town to get them.
ABR just blatantly gamethrew.

[Kitz]

Or maybe TSO's role didn't kill people when they're at their own house and it instead only kills the people who visit them?

Here's one piece of information I know about mass murderers.

The normal variation kills whoever rests at a location, so everyone who visits that target is at a location and if target has targeted another they have moved to a different location.
Killing more than one puts them to a cooldown unable to act for a while.

Killed :
N1
- Pisskop - Maifa Non-consecutive Roleblocker killed night 1
- Boonskiies - Town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 1
- Viking (attacked & healed)
= All by T S O. Where's the mafia kill? It went on T S O?
= All visited Viking and Viking couldn't move.

N2
-Ellie - Town deputy turned cop killed night 2
= Mafia. Can visit.

Mathblade - Town vengeful killed night 3
= Mafia? Or MM? Cannot visit.

Nobody Special town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 4
= Mafia if heal N2 and N4 (Visit N4), or add in possible MM if N1, N3. (No visit N4)

T S O - Mass Murder Killed night 6
= Mafia.

Lynched :
- Klingoncelt town citizen lynched day 1
- vikingfan - Town Cop lynched day 2
- Albert B. Rampage - Town Tracker lynched Day 3.
- FA_Q2 - town citizen lynched day 4
- Aeronaut - Mafia Goon lynched day 5
- Ozgin - Mafia goon/Neighbor - lynched day 6

[Kitz]

I still don't know what this means. If you could give me any clarity on this, that'd be great.

If GM is the neighbourizer, why no neighbour on the night that T S O had claimed to attack GM?
Coincidentally, no neighbourizing at all, when that was important.

Then T S O dies and GM claims to have visited T S O.

... Actually, that might be the truth, but instead of neighbourizing, killing.

If there's a last scum and GM neighbourized someone alive or a more probable target like me, you or anyone but T S O who were obviously chosen to be killed clear as day...
Let's just say that neighbourizing someone alive would give a very high boost of town cred.

It were very obvious that T S O would be killed at that point for being such a threat to the mafia, so why did GM even chose to target him?

[Kitz]

And just FYI, if my logic keeps dripping the wrong direction and it doesn't go directions, I'll just go all "fuck it all".

[Kitz]

So, is your general argument that you think GM can't be neighborizing anymore because she has to be making the kills at this point?

At least the most recent one. I'm not sure about the other ones, however there could be some wifom involved.

I'll let you articulate on the matter and come to a conclusion.

The following actions make no sense : Skipping neighbourizing, Made a shitty excuse doing so, Targeting someone who were quite obviously the target of the night.
The third there could be some biased alibi : Not targeting anyone would be scummy due doing the kill, but targeting someone dead is just fine.

[Kitz]

Why skip neighborizing if it brings your claim into question? If GM could neighborize someone on whichever night it was that she didn't, I can't see a reason why she would skip it on purpose.

Reason. I called out on it heavily too.

Gm why didn't you neighorize anyone again?

Because I didn't feel there was much point.

It's not a group. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that's only open the Day after the Night I Neighbourise them in.

Has this not been clear?

No, it's a new thread every time. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that opens ONE DAY ONLY.

I don't know how I can make this clearer.

[Kitz]

Shin, do you intend to hammer?

[Kitz]

Not seeing another lynch happening at this point.

This is hypocritical in my opinion. I'm the only option because I'm having most votes on, but everyone can easily vote another. No one's V/LA.
If this mindset sticks around, I'll just hammer myself because it's impossible to lynch another due to this logical fallacy.

[Kitz]

Why did Dragon get killed?

[Kitz]

i think the dragon kill was a kill in obvtown+setting up further suspicion for me

I thought Dragon could be scummy, since everyone else had a chance to hammer me at some point.
GC is the obv-town, unless the "Neighbours" thing with Oz was a way for scum to have a night chat...
... Hmm.

---

If there's really 1 scum left, I wouldn't mind being put off. Everyone can agree I'm questionable.

This game is four months old.
Eck.

And we're still sane!

[Kitz]

So I'm town because I'm too bad to be scum and too bad at mafia in general?
Tanks gaiz, u niec, hier hav sum bitchslaps
This game is far too mindfucking and long drawn with not much. It causes a brain drain.
Maybe you didn't have to call me bad if you actually understood my logic and what I said?

GC, why don't you make a case on me instead of saying I'm scummy with no own basis? Will it remain with "basis on GM"?

Anyyyyway, my reads are :
Cheetory is definitively a member of the town.
Green Crayons has this scummy vipe, but is auto-town because why the heck would you neighbour two scum together?
Shinobi seems to be trying very little and is just sitting back watching, while being snarky. Inbetween towny and scummy.
Marquis is totally the "save the trees" and "them feels" guy, and is inbetween of scummy and towny.
I myself am scummy for genuinly thinking that Aero was town pre-lynch, and that I "bussed" Oz and was bussed by Piss. (What?)

Personally, I want to hear from Cheetory who to lynch because he appears unbiased.

[Kitz]

It's either Shin or Marquiz.

[Kitz]

I'm getting really paranoid about Kitz and GC both saying they'll sheep people and just how quiet they've both been this cycle.

I'm quiet because I just read multiple times that I'm a bad player so I just watch and see why.

[Kitz]

Btw I'm leaning towards killing Kitz today, jsyk.

Then make a case on me?

[Kitz]

She realized that she didn't have the answer to the game in yet made no effort to question her top two suspects.

Huh?

[Kitz]

Is that seriously your case?

[Kitz]

Could've brought it up earlier, and you might've just written that while not home...

[Kitz]

Well, Shinobi, it's been so long that I forgot some things. Wouldn't mind a reminder.

Altho, if my lynch is the most beneficial with information and there's 1 scum left, I can vote myself. It's the best I can do, if it helps the game advance in the correct way.
Want to do it here and now?

[Kitz]

Kitz, if I'm not mafia, why is Marquis mafia?

Detailed reasons plx.

I know neither of the two of yours meta, and I'm not going to try meta either.
Limited info as a Citizen / Vanilla Town.

That said, let's look on the vote stances of both you and Marquiz?
Who were most willing to vote, and who were fencesitting the most?

[Kitz]

VOTE: Kitz

You're too stubborn. You'll regret that.

Anyway, screw logic. I think you will gain zero information lol.
VOTE: Kitz

[Kitz]

I think we two are the only ones who ain't townreading Shin.
Altho Marquiz, you two are on the same potential slot. It's a matter of figuring out who.

#Edit : GM had bad effort and biased by a questionable / bad play depending on the perception of how things went.
GM wouldn't have been lynched if GM actually bothered to do a few things.

[Kitz]

you should probably vote shinobi if you're town and don't want a mislynch

The problem is that I'm not sure which of the two of you are and if I'm left alive then I'm just a lynchbait anyway.
Better to get the low hanging fruit, eh?

[Kitz]

The GM effortpost is literally "statistically, based off of other normal games, shin is 90% likely town based on being a late-game wagon competing with a scum-wagon," not things he should or shouldn't have done in this game.

A statistic or meta, is the same. It can be influenced and differated. Holds no water.

[Kitz]

you should probably vote shinobi if you're town and don't want a mislynch

The problem is that I'm not sure which of the two of you are and if I'm left alive then I'm just a lynchbait anyway.
Better to get the low hanging fruit, eh?

...

i dont

...

...

...

maybe we should just lynch you then

pedit i do think aero's jump on the shin wagon was a dying moments bus though

Let's look at this way. Either of the two of you are scum.

If we lynch Shin, how do we convince the rest to lynch you over me?
If we lynch Marq, how do we convince the rest to lynch Shin over me?

[Kitz]

basically if you're actually town kitz you're doing absolutely nobody but scum a favor by selflynching/voting

even just putting off the pressure until tomorrow is better because i'd like to think lylo reads are more easily confirmable/bounceable

Then convince GC?

[Kitz]

We have 6 hours left?

[Kitz]

Sorry, I'll bite a bullet doing this.

VOTE: Marquis

[Kitz]

And Kitz, you were extremely impressive this game. You were the only one who correctly called me out for being alive still.

It made sense tho.

---

What the heck?! Cheetory was the scum all along? Neither Shin and Marq?
Mass Murderer, Scum-Neighbours, Traitor, 4+1 Mafia.

#Host, can we get to know The Error / Thing that happened earlier in the game only the dead would know?
Unless of course it's in the deadchat.

#Edit :
#Wolf : Say sorry to Elusive and just forget this, please.

[Kitz]

Altho half of the alive players at the end called me bad at this game, lel.

[Kitz]

Oh, and how likely was I getting killed? Just curious what the scum has to say.

[Kitz]

Sooooo... I read the chats and yeah, good luck trying to read me. I'm weird and insane.

It is indeed sad though that no one listened to me. Can't wait to read the scum chat, want to see how much I messed up their brains.

[Kitz]

I feel like I'm the king of a mountain of salt.
I don't know how I feel about it.

Is that the salt of everyone's tears?

[Kitz]

What was interesting to me was that you figured out the setup even though it wasn't a typical normal, like I don't even know how you did that and its epic.

I have no limits to thoughts, stuff like meta doesn't affect me, and I consider everything a possibility.
Out of the box thinking : The more I thought on things, the more it made sense.

[Kitz]

Sure. Acronyms ftw, makes me have to google.

[Kitz]

I know you mentioned teaching yourself English, I find that really interesting. Do you want to talk about it or like why? Is that part of your self-education?

I didn't do school so I'm pretty much self taught

through video games

. English is the primary language of the internet

and games

. Since none is teaching me about the language and its rules, grammar is oddly good / oddly bad together with lack of certain words.
Wouldn't mind if someone could teach me proper grammar. I tend to mix Is / Are for example, same thing no?

As for self-education, it's basically just to be less stupid. Random wikipedia, news and videos can be a rich source of information.
So related to Mafia, it's a great way of interacting with others through the language of english.