NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I confirm that I have received my role.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@MichelSableheart: Do you think it's a good idea to add the replacement list? You know, people who can potentially replace?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Also guys, I have a great idea. Let's scum hunt pre-game and then we might be able to make serious votes from Day 1.

Vote: Chronopie

"Good morning Crono, would you like to eat pie for breakfast?"

Doesn't mesh well with me at all.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Seems like you need to confirm in different ways. In that case:

/confident

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Sorry, I mean /ready

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: Oh really? We'll have to find out at the end of Day 1 if we caught a scum or not.

Unvote: Chronopie, Vote: Parama

@Mod: Please note we're playing around and not actually voting for each other.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Votes don't count pregame. Don't see why you're so nervous already.
And I wasn't talking about you anyways, but you can join the list if you want to <3

I obviously know that votes don't count pregame, hence why I said that we were not being serious about the situation. I'm also not nervous at all, I do get nervous when I'm close to getting lynched, but saying that I get nervous pre-game is ridiculous.

Also, thanks for clarifying that up.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Reaction test failed. I did imply it was you, considering it was in response to your post. Can't believe you bought that.

Delayed vote: SSSF

Note to mod: this vote should not be recognized until Day 1 starts kthx

Contradictioning much? In your first response toward me, you said that it was not directed toward me? If it truly wasn't, who were you responding to? If it was me, why change the story?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Yeah, um, I think I'm going to stop the argument between me and Parama now. I realize it's going nowhere.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So I think you actually say.

"I'm going to stop the argument now because people start figuring out I'm scum."

lol, Super Smash Bros Fan, I wonder why you are very tense, heh

Let's just say that I'm just getting a bit excited, that is all. I wasn't meaning to get into a super-serious argument with anyone here pre-game anyway.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Everyone: Make sure to confirm via PM if you haven't noticed this. Otherwise, you may get replaced.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Pre-game arguments are useful for revealing alignment. Ever had a scum role before SSBF?

I was scum once in Smash Bros. Mafia. You probably haven't heard of it, since you're probably not a fan of Nintendo and it's not on this site, but Smash Bros. Mafia was a 12-player game on Smash World Forums. Me, along with ChibiCat and The Paprika Killer (Vi Veri now) were scums in the game.

I didn't do well at alll. My computer broked early into Day 1 and wasn't able to post for most of Day 1. Only a mod error deadline extension manage to give me time to survive Day 1, as I was acting really scummy (Fatchu got the chopping blocks). I cracked under pressure in Day 2 and self-lynched myself. People were pissed off at me. I was lucky to be in a ongoing Mafia game there as the mod noticed big time. If I self-hammer one more time in that site, he will blacklist me, no execption. That's why I so disapprove of self-hammering.

Scum still won, but I felt very dissatified with myself. Every game I die in counts as a lost to me. Expect a lot more losing then winning with me due to my inexperience in games. I have been town in my other games that I fliped in, thought.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

^Fluff

Basically, most posts here have been fluff. And beside, while you do have a point about pre-game discussion being beneficial, they aren't as important as they are in-game when they are necessary. Here, we can choose to cool out or start scum hunting pre-game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@daniel and Lowell: Glad to see you confirm through here. Now just hoping both of you confirmed through PM as well.

Really excited for the game, as a matter of fact, this may be my best Mafia game yet.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just wanted you guys to be aware of this pre-game. In this game and Thrillville Mafia, I will be introducing a new gimmick by me. It's basically where I rank other people. I'll explain.

First off, it's just me doing it, I don't really want anyone else doing this. Secondly, I want to have something that distinguish myself from other people. Third, it helps keep my thoughts on players somewhat organized. I will be updating this on a semi-regular bases.

These are the three arrows that I will be using:

You have gone up in ranking. This is done by making positive contribuation to the game. You can go up until you reach 1st.
You stay in place. You may have done nothing to convince me to give you a more towner read or a scummier read or you may have done a equal amount of scumminess and positive contribuation.
You've gone down in ranking. You have been guilty of commiting scummy acts and thus deserve to go down. Or it could be simply because I noticed another player making more pro-town contribution to the game.

This is how I'm currently ranking everyone here:
1st:askbob
2nd:Chronopie
3rd:daniel94581
4th:Dr. Robotnik
5th:Dry-fit
6th:foilist13
7th:Leafsnail
8th:Lowell
9th:LynchMePls
10th:Midnight's Sorrow
11th:nhammen
12th:Parama
13th:pman5595
14th:Pomegranate
15th:Seraphim
16th:SerialClergyman
17th:Sevis
18th:SGRaaize
19th:The Goat
20th:Timeater
21st:Unsight
22nd:Vezopiraka
23rd:Vi

If you're high up, then you're doing great and I encourage you to do just as well or even better. If you're in the middle, you're safe for now, but I want to see more out of you. If you're low, you're on thin ice and if you're in the lowest ranking, expect a vote from me.

Don't fret now, thought. Everyone has a neutral read from me now, since this is after all, pre-game. Plus, this is in alphabetical order for now. There is nothing to worry about until the rankings actually start to change.

Hope the idea is interesting. If not, then I will discard it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Your best game is getting lynched D1? <_<

No it is not (It's my worst game). My best game would be either Tree Stump Mafia or Newbie Mafia 5 in Smash World Forums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

How often are you going to be making this fully ranked list?

I'll start updating it with my first random vote in the game. Then when I make a serious vote, I'll make another update. Will update once I find another top lynch candidate, or if there's a considerable shake up in my list.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Chronopie, Parama, and Vi: All of you make good points about my list. Just want to say thanks.

It's fine to give general Town reads. Identifying Townies is just as important (and at times easier) than finding scum. I don't buy the "directing the NK/clueing the scum in" argument tbqh; I have to wonder from where people are hearing it.~

This. I also find it weird that people are so afraid of giving out town lists. They're so commonly done here and I didn't bother them at all, so why start now?

On top of that, let's bring up Smash World Forums, another great place to play Mafia games (They're quicker, thought). If you mention even one person who has a town read from you, they will freak out. Did this in two games that are ongoing and the reactions weren't that good.

Last, I have to agree that I find your avatar unsatisfactory. What do you want it to be?

You'll see in a minute.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Your new avatar: I don't understand what it's meant to represent. Clue me in.

Time for a longer explaination of it.

My avatar is the symbol of the Super Smash Bros. series. It is a fighting genre consisted of many Nintendo characters over the year. It plays quite differently from other fighting games.

This is personally my favorite video game series. I had a ton of memory with the first two games and the 3rd one on the Wii (

Super Smash Bros. Brawl

) is great as well.

The original on the Nintendo 64 called

Super Smash Bros.

was released in 1999. If you have a Wii, you can hook it up online. All you need is a Wii Point Card, a online Wii, and a Classic Controller/Gamecube Controller. The game cost 1,000 Wii Point Cards in Japan, Europe, North America, and Australia under the Virtual Console, which is a service dedicated to reviving older games on a weekly bases. It's a fantastic game IMO, you should check it out sometimes.

If you have a Gamecube/Wii, you can get

Super Smash Bros. Melee

. This is considered by many to be the best installment in the Super Smash Bros. series and it's my persona favorite game for the Gamecube (Although the original will always remain my favorite Smash). If you have a Gamecube or a Wii, try to go by your local Gamespot and pick up a copy if you see one. Get a Gamecube controller as well. This is the 2nd installment in the series.

Finally, the latest installment is

Super Smash Bros. Brawl

, which released on March 9, 2008. Despite the horrible online, it is a really great game and I do recommend it to you.

Give Smash a try and you will most likely love it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@askbob: I have done this before. I can't mention ongoing games, so the one finished game I have done this in so far is Tree Stump Mafia in Smash World Forums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

We should be lynching SSBF D1 anyways, I don't see why it's important.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie. Let's run Day 1 ful or at least almost full course before deciding on the list.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Timeater. I like your idea for *99. I'm willing to accept that. However, some questions:

1. Will you notify us if someone commits a scum tell?
2. If they commit townie acts, do you plan on removing scum points?
3. What order will they be in?
4. Do you still plan on doing the gimmick?

And as for Vi's question:

1. I haven't really have any completed games that has already run it's full course on this site. However, I do play on Smash World Forums as well. So far, I have played four games that have been entirely completed. My record on that site currently stands as a 1-3.

2. As of now, no. I'm hoping to become experience thought.

3. I wished.

4. Probably not. If we are, then yea.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Seraphim

and

FoS: nhammen

because they didn't post during pre-game period.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Seraphim

and

FoS: nhammen

because they didn't post during pre-game period.

Do you think any of the people who DID post during pregame are scummy?

Not at all. This was completely random. If I was serious, I would have driven my vote to Parama.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Dammit, I screwed up!

Let's just say that I'm just getting a bit excited, that is all. I wasn't meaning to get into a super-serious argument with anyone here pre-game anyway.

Explain how this post is a scum tell. I am not seeing it.

ALSO.

Vote: Seraphim

and

FoS: nhammen

because they didn't post during pre-game period.

Do you think any of the people who DID post during pregame are scummy?

Not at all. This was completely random. If I was serious, I would have driven my vote to Parama.

So you'd OMGUS me?

Absolutely not. I have reasons for suspecting you. As a matter of fact, you're my top lynch candidate. I do find you slightly suspicious, but not enough to place a vote on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Regarding my post where I briefly talked about someone quick hammering me, this can apply to basically anyone. Quick hammers are much more likely to miss a scum because we haven't gathered enough information to decide upon a lynch. Plus, any quick hammer leaves us with limited information to work on and we're more likely to have to start from Square 1 instead of just leaving off where we started. Now granted, we do get the likely Night kills, but that isn't really much unless a power role is killed.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Cannot...resist....too...suspicious with that one post....

Vote:SSBF

Which post is it? Can you direct me to it?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If you would read carefully, you'd see the question has already been answered.

I think what they were meaning was that they wanted a better case on me to get them to convince that I am acting scummy. So far, your case on me is not very good. This is especially supported because multiple people are rebutting your comment.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Case against Parama

Less then six hours into the game and I already have a case on Parama. I'll try to explain why Parama has landed onto my top suspect list.

I started to become suspcious of Parama waaaay before the game started. He started out as a /caught scum already post. Thinking it was applying to me, he responded to me. He said he wasn't talking about me. Less then fifteen minutes later, he contradicted himself by saying he was implying it to me.

Today at 5:53 AM, before the game even got started, he begun to campaign for my lynch. This is way premature. I can understand doing it when we have a lot to go off and your reason for voting a person is legitimate, but that was pre-game, so this makes absolutely no sense.

I should have brought up this quote earlier:

We're lynching you Day 1 but I never said it had to happen quickly. Though if it takes too long I'll be pretty mad.

I noticed another contradiction here. He said he didn't want me lynched too quickly. Then why did he on the EXACT same post say that he'll be pretty mad if it takes too long to lynch? This is another contradiction.

He also said that he didn't like the fact I was trying to be cautious. I don't see how that's a problem. Being cautious can actually be helpful in the game. It means you're trying to think before posting and if anything, it benefits you.

This was all before the game started. Now let's see what Parama has done to earn my suspicion on Day 1 so far.

He started off Day 1 with a half-assed case on me. When Vi explained what was the purpose of my vote, I said it was random, but if my vote was serious, it would voting toward Parama. He then goes to immediately accuse me of doing an OMGUS if I were to do that, which I call BS on.

When Seraphim and Leafsnail asked Parama to explain why I was suspicious again, Parama gave half-hearted responses multiple times. From ISO 17-21, Parama completely neglected to mention why I was scummy when they both asked.

On top of that, out of all the people on my bandwagon (him, Unsight, Chronopie, Dr. Robotnik), no one and I mean no one has tunneled me as much as Parama. Almost all of his posts has been dedicated toward me. Most of his pre-game post were related to me in some way and I swear,

every single post

in Day 1 are in some way related toward going against me. It makes me wonder if he's even considering other suspects.

It's really disappointing to say this, but Unsight is actually pushing a better case against me. At least Unsight is actually responding when challenged against his/her (Genre clarfication please?) case against me, so that's why I'm not suspcious of Unsight at this moment.

Until Parama shows signs of improvement, I am going to

Unvote, Vote: Parama

. And no, this is not an OMGUS reply, nor an OMGUS vote.

I'd like to ask everyone a question. Who are your top suspects? List at least two and explain why you find the person scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Unsight (#180): Will get to your question tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon (Latter is more likely, since I only have like ten minutes to go on the computer in the mornings before school). It's too late tonight to address, as I will have to re-read Leafsnail's post.

@Midnight's Sorrow: I don't see how Vi's mind games are scary, let alone a reason to vote him. Can you explain why Vi's mind games are worthy of placing your vote on him?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: You said the deadline was Juli 4, 2010. It sounds like a mispelling. Is this how they say either June or July in The Neatherland? If so, clarify which one you're meaning.

@SSBF - What's your opinion on leafsnail?

I'll give him a slight pro-town read. His response to Parama on getting him to explain why I was scummy at the time was good and he is starting to contribute more. However, I'm not concrete solid that he's getting a pro-town read from me yet, as I want to see more out of him (As a matter of fact, as with most other people in this game).

Now a question for you: What is your opinion on Parama/Leafsnail? Both or choosing just one of them will do.

Why would you place a random vote when you had a better than random reason for an actual vote?

So why are you voting randomly, if the pregame should definitely be enough to get some real reads. You have a scum read on Parama, why didn't you vote on it?

At the time, I wasn't really certain that Parama was scum. As a result, I wasn't prepared to place a serious vote. However, his scum bar increased and I finally decided to move my vote toward him.

Now this is where I get to Parama's post against my case on him:

It's called a reaction test, and you failed. Yes, I lied. It should have been obvious because it was heavily implied I meant you. When you eased up after this I knew I had caught scum. You didn't even ask who I said I was mentioning.

Just want to say that lying continuously can get you lynched for Lynch All Liars. This isn't a bad enough lie that it qualify for the Lynch All Liars position (Something like lying about your role would be an example), but I suggest refraining from purposely lying. In that case, why did you heavily imply you meant me? How is easing up after a pre-game argument suggest you've caught scum? And why was it necessary to bring up that I didn't ask who were you refering to?

So you're denying that anything in pre-game is worth mentioning.
What would be the point of having a pregame then?

Absolutely not. What I basically said in that post was "It's way premature to campaign for a lynch pre-game, wait until we get enough information later on a Day before actually pushing a lynch."

And as it stands, pre-games IMO when allowed will always be important, especially in large games.

LOL. I didn't imply any definite times, and you act like I did.
Too quickly = less than 3 days
Too long = more than a week

Contradiction =/= exist

Okay, so I see your point about less then three days being too quick, but a week is not enough for Mafiascum to decide upon a further lynch. By then, a three-week Mafia day would have only run 1/3 of it's course. Lynching someone closer to the deadline would be much more beneficial.

Scum are the ones concerned about looking scummy. They act cautious. Townies have reason to act aggressive - it pressures the scum into slipping up. There's no reason to be cautious as town.
And you just admitted to being cautious. GG.

Townies are also concerned about looking scummy in people eyes because they know if they get lynched, it will only help scum and hurt town. Also, it is not clear cut to define a scum from a townie based on how aggressive they act. Scums can act very aggressive when townies can act relatively catious. Being catious should not be a scum tell as long as it doesn't hinder you from playing the game well.

As a matter of fact, acting way too aggressively can be dangerous. Look at the Horrordude0215 vs. Ythan argument near the end of Day 1 in Mafia 110: Hell in Michagan. Horrordude was getting close to lynch. He and Ythan got into a big argument. Horrordude eventually resorted to petty insults against him. Not only did it got on a few people nerve and the mod mad, Horrordude was quickly lynched because of it. He was a Vanilla Townsperson.

You didn't give any reason to suspect me - implying you had no reason to want to vote besides me voting you.

I didn't give reasons publicly on why I was suspecting you. I did say I was slightly suspicious of you at the time, but I did not have a concrete reason for voting you then. Look at my response to Dry-fit's and Pomegranate's response to me for more information.

I'm tunneling to draw out scum - it works in two different way.
1. Pressure a target to see their reactions
2. See what sort of crowd the wagon attracts

Both these can be used to get reads on the player being tunneled as well as the bandwagon voters. Very nice and it's working quite well. Though with 2 scumteams it won't be quite as efficient.

I see your point here, but the problem with tunneling is that it's considered a major scum tell by some people, especially of this magnitude, where it gets to the point where you outright ignore other people in favor of one person.

Wait, so he's your top lynch candidate, but not quite scummy enough for your vote? Huh?

Vote who you find scummiest. Which is Parama, it seems, at this point.

I'll repeat myself. At the time, I was suspicious of Parama, but not enough to place a vote on. I waited to see how he played later on and after seeing his posts, I was not impressed, therefore, I casted a vote on Parama.

By the way something I realized right after making this post but couldn't get a chance to post:
He builds half his case on me based on pre-game stuff, and then he says that pre-game content isn't very useful.
Hello, contradiction much? Also chalk up hypocrisy because you're accusing me of contradicting myself while you contradict yourself within your case on me. Yay!

I really don't see how that is contradicting. I already attempted to refute both points you made against me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@MichelSableheart: Okay, thanks for letting me know.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm going to mention my other suspects at the moment:

Midnight's Sorrow:

He's been completely useless throughout the game. There is no excuse for this, especially since he's been relatively active and productive in Kingdom of Loathing. Remember his BS excuse for not contributing? Yeah, that needs to go.

Whats the case with Dr. Robotnik. I somehow missed that while reading. What page?

Just read the case below or ISO him and my discussion with him.

Dr. Robotnik:

Also guilty of being useless throughtout the game. He has only made THREE posts in the game. One was to confirm, one was to place a vote on me, and another was an attempt to unvote me, but fails due to him not bolding his vote. I'd also like to add that he fails to answer one of my question on what post he found suspicious, which gives him a little more shades of scumminess then Midnight's Sorrow.

daniel94581:

I agree with the case on him. He's been almost useless throughout the entire game. I understand he might be new to the game, but this does not excuse his rolefishing, hard as hell to read posts, very poor responses, and giving a bad reason for voting someone (Askbob is doing okay so far). He also makes responses to long quote with half-hearted effort put into it (ISO: 13 was an epic fail of a quote, it didn't even work).

vezopiraka

: Not a fan of him either. I agree with everyone that the too premature asking to roleclaim was suspicious. I also agree that up until then, vezopiraka wasn't really providing much much contents. However, what strikes me is that vezopiraka was also guilty of performing an OMGUS vote on Vi on #200. Also, look at this post:

I have somewhat of an inside source and I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf.

And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

unvote:vi
vote:LynchMePls

That bolded point was so scummy, it completely ruins the entire post. He outright said he was scum. Seraphim, tell me you were not kidding in your Mason claim.

Also, this is Day 1. There has been no Night 0. How do you know who's a Mafioso member and who's a Werewolf?

Basically, I'm listing my suspects in these orders:

5th: Midnight's Sorrow
4th: Dr. Robotnik
3rd: daniel94581
2nd: Parama
1st: Vezopiraka

My case against Parama still stands as it is and I am no less suspcious of him, but Vezopiraka has been almost useless and his scum tells is enough to get me to change my vote. At least Parama is finally starting to get serious. With that said:

Unvote: Parama
Vote: Vezopiraka
HoS: Parama
HoS: daniel94581
FoS: Dr. Robotnik
FoS: Midnight's Sorrow

Other thoughts:
I don't see why LynchMePls is suspicious. He has clearly been putting forth an effort toward the game, unlike Vezopiraka, daniel94581, Dr. Robotnik, and Midnight's Sorrow. Sure I didn't like his contradiction, but he has a null read from me at this point.

I am not buying Seraphim claim at all. IMO, it's completely useless to claim now as I'd rather wait until you're in danger of a lynch. I especially did not like the fact he claimed for vezopiraka and daniel94581, he even said they might be werewolves. For God's sake I hope either vezopiraka or daniel94581 are werewolves, they truly have been acting scummy.

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010? He's doing it very quickly. First a vote on Vezopiraka, then LynchMePls, then SGRaaize, and finally Dr. Robotnik. On the last one, all he mentioned about Dr. Robotnik is that he's probably scum. I agree with Dr. Robotnik being scummy, but he didn't explain why.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Vi: Fair enough explaination.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

This kinda of thing always makes me facepalm. I hate it when people put emotion over logic in these games. This is a game of logic, I don't see why people feel the need to dampen that with their emotions

I was not using emotion in that post. All I was doing was giving an example of why being too aggressive can hurt you later on.

Also SSBF, not to

dampen

what seems like a good case against me. Kingdom of Loathing is an ongoing game that should not be talked about. Please refrain from doing so please.~

I see your point and all, but even if I didn't include it as an example. the fact that you weren't contributing at the time made me suspicious of you.

However, I'm finally starting to notice you contributing, so my case against you isn't really that valid anymore.

2 masons are in my top three suspicion list, I am an idiot

yes

Thing is, we don't know whenever or not Vezopiraka or daniel are scums or not. While I do think Seraphim is slightly pro-town, I don't believe his claim, especially not on Vezopiraka or daniel.

Vote: askbob. Do you have any scumreads? As far as I can tell, you've just been swearing at people for bad play and, in your last post, voting a lurker (with what seems to be a bandwagon).

I think he actually considered Dr. Robotnik as a suspect. Look at my case against him for more information. He agreed with it.

Is there a way to search a specific thread through google?

Completely off-topic and gives us nothing to work on. It's not hard to read a thread. Sure it might take a long time to do, but in Mafia games, these are valuable information. If this is your excuse for not really contributing much, then your excuses are crap. Welcome to my watch list.

If there an ugly chick among Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox and Jessica Alba, it is Angelina Jolie. That does not mean Angelina is ugly, it means that of those three, if I had to say one was ugly, I would say Angelina Jolie. If you still don't understand, I can't help you.

Deciding between which one of the three are scummiest is more complicating then your example. You need evidence to back-up why either Seraphim, Vezopiraka, or Daniel are scums. With your example, opinions are all you need.

@LynchMePls (#323 and #324): Very hypocritical. You accused Midnight's Sorrow of misrepresenting you, yet after he got a satisfying answer, you said it wasn't exactly what he meant. That response wasn't necessary, so had you'd left it alone, the argument probably would have ended. Now it's most likely going to continue and not in your favor.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Chronopie: I'd like for you to answer this question.

Who are your suspects now? You can list up to six, but no more then that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Midnight's Sorrow: Your reasons are fair enough. Also, I am looking forward to seeing more out of you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@nhammen: Two days is enough to get you prodded. Read the rules.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Some thoughts in the game: I'm not liking how Seraphim is suddenly disappearing from the thread after being active beforehand. He has not posted in this thread since Tuesday March 18, 2010 at 9:52 PM Central Times. Strangely enough, he was very active earlier. On top of that, looking at his profile, he posts 4.35 per day, as of now. This brings him down to a neutral-scummy read.

I will bring down an

FoS: nhammen

for now. Your case on foilist is terrible. He has been in some form productive in the game and I agree with Parama, he is not rolefishing. Especially making your case on folist bad is that you failed to explain why he was rolefishing.

You gave minimal explaintion on most of your responses from 328 to 382. With the exception of Chronopie's rolefishing (Which I agree with), I am nott buying any of your responses. Explain them in more detail to get me to see what you're saying.

I'm noticing Parama improving recently. He's actually starting to scum hunt and is focusing on other players. My suspicion of him still remains, but if he keeps improving, then I may take him off my scum list.

Above all else, as much as it pains me to say it, vezo is not scum. Any lynch of Vezo is a guaranteed mislynch.

How do you know Vezopiraka is not scum? Just because Seraphim is claiming him as a mason doesn't mean we know if he's scum or not. Sure if Seraphim is right about his claim that it does reduce the chance of him being scum, but Vezopiraka has been acting very scummy, I'm sorry, but as long as he continues to not contribute to the game and commit scum tells of his magnitude, I am going to keep my vote on him.

But along those lines, as mentioned before I disagree with LMP - vezo is the more likely scum between the two VIsons, and I'm curious as to why people are pushing or half-pushing daniel more.

I agree with you. Vezopiraka has been acting more scummy then daniel has been.

ISOing daniel, he just seems to not care about the game much. Vezopiraka has been throwing scum tells left and right throughout the entire game. Even for someone new to Mafiascum, this is not an excuse for what he's been doing. But it can't even be used as an excuse because as other have pointed he, he is experienced at Mafia.

@askbob 364: Please scumhunt instead of commenting on the Mason stuff. And for your info, Seraph's play was the right play.

I saw a little scum hunting going on in that post. Also, how is Seraphim's play was right? He deserted this thread for two days already shortly after his mason claim. How can you say that's the right play?

You don't see any rolefishing in this post? It's all just rhetoric to you?

I'm not seeing any rolefishing in that post. It felt like genuine scum hunting to me.

Current scum ranking:
6th: LynchMePls (Just barely, thought)
5th: nhammen
4th: Parama
3rd: Dr. Robotnik
2nd: daniel94581
1st: Vezopiraka

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF: But less isn't

Even if you do avoid prods, people still call you out if you're inactive compared to other people. You were doing the same thing that Seraphim is doing right now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I plan on doing an analysis on everyone after Pomegranate comes back from V/LA and post some substance. There is so much substance in the game now, I have some form of opinion on everyone.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Okay, first Seraphim claims that he, daniel, and Vezopiraka were masons. Vezopiraka claimed monk and LynchMePls claimed monk as well. This is defindently confusing.

Although I am suspicious of nhammen, I think the bandwagon is going waaaaay too fast. Because of one scummy post, he's at L-2. We have over a month, let's use that to our advantage. Don't lynch him this quickly.

@The Goat: Please hurry up with your analysis. Right now, you're slightly suspicious to me. I'll give you until midnight today to get your analysis up.

@Pomegranate: I'm just responding to some things now. Analysis coming up later.

Unvote
Vote: nhammen

lol, this is too easy. Nice catch, Parama. I retract what I said earlier about you being an idiot. 8D I hope we can be buddies now.

This is all you have to add after coming back? Another vote and an agreement with Parama? Pretty disappointing. I was hoping to see more contents out of you.

FomS: Seraphim

@nhammen (#428): We have legitimate reasons for suspecting you. If I was in your position, I would be embarrased.

What does this tell us: First and foremost, since no one in Seraph's group can be mafia, and no one in my group can be werewolf, and Vezo is in both, VEZO IS CONFIRMED TOWN. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO LYNCH HIM.

Actually, Vezopiraka being scum is very well possible, even as an Monk/Mason. He has a lower chance of being a scum, but it is possible. Please stop trying to denide the possibility of them being scum.

1) We lynch Daniel/Vezo
2) They town, oops
3) They mafia/werewolves, the other two go

Just because they are masons/monks and one of them flip scums doesn't mean all of them are scums as well. It doesn't hurt to look for connection between them, thought, if one of them do flip town.

So you only vote players that you are certain are scum? (The way I play, unless it's RVS or something, you vote whichever player is scummiest, even if it's not that scummy, because scummiest=more likely to be scum than any other player, at least in my book.)

Not really that certain. For example, take my vote on Parama. I unvoted him and replaced his vote with a vote on Vezopiraka. I only want to make a vote on a person when I think I can get a solid case going against that particular person. I do plan on avoiding frequently changing votes, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to change if I find another top suspect.

All of you lets lynch nhammen. Every town roleblocker claim I saw was just the scum roleblocker. My vote stands.

Okay, not this early. The game started less then a week ago, so we need to give him a little more time before lynching him. When it gets reasonably close to the deadline, then I won't mind a lynch, especially not on my top suspect.
@Timeater (#482): No offense, but aside from vote Chornopie, you didn't really give us much to work on. All you did was basically summerize up the day.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And SSBF, thing is, I was suspecting a fake Mason claim before, until having LynchMePls on the mix

I think you have a point there. Seraphim was the only person as the time with a town read (Now he's mildly suspicious to me, due to his actions lately) out of the three. Suddenly, because he wanted to get us out of a situation, he decided to claim for him, Vezopiraka, and daniel. I really did disapporve of this claim and I always kept it in thought that it could very well be false. Even if it wasn't, it is possible that at least one of them could be a werewolf.

But with Vezopiraka and LynchMePls claiming monk, the mason/monk situation is really confusing.

Now I'd like to ask everyone this question. How do we get out of this situation about monks/masons and start focusing on the main thing that matter, scum hunting?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

My vote is currently on Vezopiraka if you haven't seen the latest vote count.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF - uh, so even though he can't be a werewolf or a mafia member (the two scum factions in this game) he could still be scum?

Actually, a Mason/Monk can still be one of the scums as well, just that there's a lower possibility of it, since most Masons are town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You might want to look at this article.
The second section under "Mafia Masons", which makes this a possibility, although unlikely.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@LynchMePls: Okay, I think I see your point now.

Unvote

Will make another vote in my analysis. I will disregard Seraphim, Vezopiraka, daniel, and LynchMePls due to the confirmation that masons and monks are not scums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Doc Robot is back, and completely missed the giant nhammen bandwagon. While I feel he certainly has been acting suspicious, the fact that the wagon formed so fast, with some just hopping on with no explanations is also worrysome.

Did you just parrot me on the matter? You basically said what I said earlier in my latest decent-size post of today.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

LURKERS:

# Dr. Robotnik

# Dry-fit

# pman5595

# Sevis

Nice catch on pman5595. I'll be looking into him more closely. Dr. Robotnik is obivous lurker who hasn't really posted much substance.

But the bolded, Dry-fit and Sevis, I disagree with. Dry-fit isn't the most active person, yes, but he is at least putting forth some efforts into his game here, with some of his posts being decent.

Sevis has been posting daily since March 18, 2010 and has giving us a fair amount of substances in the game. He's put forth about the same amount of effort as Dry-fit and has been slightly more active then him.

They aren't really lurking that bad.

What about these people?

The Goat: Almost no substance from him and he promised an analysis tonight. He has about thirty minutes to get it in or I will FoS him.

Timeater: He has been active lurking as well. He's only made like one or two decent posts in the game and his analysis was basically him voting Chronopie and summerizing up what happen in the day, which gave us little to work on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@nhammen: Not everyone is able to come up with six suspects in this game you know. For most people, that's asking a bit much.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just saying that I'll do an analysis today on everyone, even thought Pomegranate hasn't completely caught up. I may reponse to some posts beforehand, thought.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Here is my analysis on well, everyone expect the claimed masons/monks:

askbob

: He's doing fine so far. He hasn't made a super pro-town post that everyone has loved, but he has been putting forward some efforts into the game in scum hunting and his defending of himself is adequate as well. Digging out pman as a lurker is nice as well. I have a slightly pro-town read on him.

Chronopie

: I heard that Chronopie had an reputation for being scummy and I can now see why. He's been doing an fair amount of role-fishing in the game, which sounds like an attempt to derail the topic. Some of his posts are pretty fluffy. He has also not given out many original thoughts in the game, supported by the fact that he was in my bandwagon and nhammen's bandwagon, without giving much of a good reason. Did I mention that he was dodging questions in the game? He's not looking very good in the game, so I'm giving him an fairly scummy read for now.

Dr. Robotnik

: He's been lurking pretty badly. Started off by failing to explain which post of mine was suspicious. He's been parroting a bit in the game as well. Very little scum hunting has been put forth by him and most of his posts were talking about Masons. I'm getting a scummy read from him, he's currently my top suspect.

Dry-fit

: He's not very active in the game, but other then that, he's been doing good. Shown some effort of scum hunting in the game and most of his posts have been good. I'm currently getting a neutral-town read from him.

foilist13

: Like Dry-fit, not very active, but I'm currently liking him. He made a pretty strong case against Vezopiraka and according to his last post, defends himself pretty well. Currently a slight pro-town read.

Leafsnail

: His activity level has been acceptable in this game. He's been doing a fair amount of scum hunting, his mini-case against Parama was solid, and his defense is okay. I'm giving him a slight pro-town read for now.

Lowell

: His posts hasn't been too long, but he has put up some substance in the game. He has original thoughts on the game. However, two things I don't like about him is his low activity level and that he contradicted himself once, saying that he didn't like my bandwagon at the time, but in the exact same post, he said that no matter how hard I try, I will still get lynched. I have a null read on him.

Midnight's Sorrow

: Started out completely useless, which is why I originally had a case on him. However, he hasn't really redeemed himself in my eyes. Some of his posts are too short and could have been added into another post, which almost gives me the feeling that he's active lurking. He's only made a few decent posts that actually really contribute to something. I'm getting a fairly scummy read on him.

nhammen

: The current bandwagon so far. Currently not liking him. His case on folist13 in my opinion, sucks. Part of ISO: 5 were totally useless, specifically the latter part without the quotes. His defense his not been very good and he has been relatively demanding, as shown where he asked Chronopie and askbob to list out six suspects, something that is not easily accomplished, even in a large game like this. His case on Parama isn't that good either. And finally, his claim is ridiculous, as scums can be role-blockers as well. Pretty scummy read if you ask me.

Parama

: Initially my top suspect for having an awful case on me (Read my case on him to see why I was very suspicious of him), he has however, somewhat redeemed himself. Ever since he stopped tunneling me, he started to actually scum hunt, made a very solid case against nhammen and a few other people, and his defense has improved. I'm still slightly suspicious of him, but if he keeps improving, he'll be off my suspect list.

pman5595

: Almost useless throughout the entire game. Only one post from him has been acceptable, the rest doesn't really contribute to anything. Oh and he's been lurking even worse then Dr. Robotnik. I give him a fairly scummy read.

Pomegranate

: I like her so far. Her activity level has been acceptable in this game. She has been doing some form of scum hunting in the game. I don't have much of a read on her right now, but I'll give her a slight pro-town read.

SerialClergyman

: He's a good player as well. He has done some pretty good scum hunting in the game. I do appreciate him having original opinions on the game as well. Considerable town read for now.

Sevis

: Nice to see him posting some substances in the game. I disagree with people on Sevis being scummy, he has been putting forth some effort into the game and did some scum hunting. I have a neutral-town read from him, because despite daily posting, I want to see more of him.

SGRaaize

: I could go either way with him. On the one hand, he claims to be very defensive, which I see as a poor excuse for not scum hunting and he quotes too much, but respond to little. However, he has been relatively active in the game and has done a bit of scum hunting. My read on him is null for now.

The Goat

: So glad he is finally contributing, I was going to call bullshit on him if he remained inactive and failed to provide contents (He almost became one of my suspects). But it's nice to see him finally contributing to the game. Nevertheless, he's getting a neutral-scum read from me.

Timeater

: Posts have been relatively fluffy and he has been almost useless in the game. I mean, his analysis was basically describing what happen in the game with a vote on Chronopie to look like he's scum hunting, but he's not. I have a fairly scummy read, keep your eyes on him.

Unsight

: Pretty active in the game, did some strong scum hunting, and it's nice to see original opinions in the game from him. Also, out of all the people, he/she was the only person with good reasons for voting me. Pretty townie if you ask me.

Vi

: His activity level has been very high in the game. Very strong scum hunting, most of his posts actually contribute to the game, solid defenses, etc. He's also been helpful in a few instances. He currently has the strongest town read from me.

These are my top six suspects from least suspicious to most suspicious:

6): Midnight's Sorrow
5): pman5595
4): Timeater
3): Chronopie
2): nhammen
1): Dr. Robotnik

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You know... I don't like this nhammen wagon.

I actually do agree with you on this. Sure nhammen is my 2nd suspect, but he at least seems to be trying in this games, while Dr. Robotnik doesn't seems to care about the game at all, hence why Dr. Robotnik is my top suspect now.

I also don't want to put nhammen at L-1 this early in the game. The bandwagon went way too fast on him and went way too hard on him and if he gets lynched this early and flip town, I don't want to be responsible for putting him at that position.

I'm going to give nhammen the chance to revive himself. If he fails to do so and becomes my top suspect when it's nearing deadline, then I might vote him, but not now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@LynchMePls: I do think Vi is townie, but it is a bit suspicious that he would shamelessly jump on Leafsnail, even thought he has been more pro-town then pro-scum. Should have commented on that on my analysis.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Chronopie: No offense, but you are seriously not helping town with your discussions of mason posts. Start contributing or you will die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

As for lurking, I've only been able to get on the computer once a day. I have explained about my reasoning for the masons, and about my distrust of the nhammen bandwagon and the speed of which it has been formed.

I really don't see that as a good excuse. I looked at your profile and you've been able to post 1.33 per day. So surely you have enough time to post at least once a day here and contribute to something.

You say pman was even more suspicious then me, yet it looks like your trying to form a second bandwagon on me. Explain yourself.

Pman5595 hasn't posted much substance and has been less active then you, but your activity level has also been terrible and you haven't really posted much substance either. Plus, you've parroted a bit, which made you more suspicious in my eyes then pman5595.

Also, I am not attempting to form a bandwagon on you. I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You have until your next post to vote me or die a horrible death.

Why do you want votes on you? I see no benefits in this whatsoever. As any factions, you want to avoid votes period.

@Timeater: You are seriously not helping. I'm tempted to vote you just because of that worthless post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Vi (Post #629): Isn't Sevis voting for Dr. Robotnik as well?
@Vi: Just want to say, I'm not a fan of constant vote hopping. It takes me awhile or some convincing to get me to change who's my top suspect for the moment. This means if you want me to switch my vote to a person who I find suspicious, but not as much as my top suspect, you're going to have to put forth some serious efforts.

FYI LS: You're wrong about me in this game too.

Unvote, Vote: Foilist

I'm unsure on which bit you'd like me to comment on Vi.
TBH, maybe having ~10 ongoing games is a bit much, divided resources and what not.

Vi looks town to me, LS looks like (misguided) town, Vez is confirmed town (in my eyes), the others masons (Dan, Seraphim), and LMP-monk are mostly confirmed town.

This entire post has contributed almost nothing to the game. This shows no scum hunting, vote on Foilist that sounds like bandwagonning, and gives us absolutely nothing to work on. Congratulation on a scummy post.

Hmm. Well, I've had people parrot me in regards to the nhammen bandwagon, so I guess that works for you...and yeah, I've posted more then he has, which does make me more suspicious because I'm somehow lurking more...

I did say that pman5595 was lurking more then you in my analysis and in a response to you.

And when you vote for people, its because you consider them dangerous enough to be hung. No, you may not have actively campaigned to kill me, but one other person immediate followed you in voting for me.

While you are my top suspect, I am willing to give you time to revive yourself. When it gets closer to the deadline and if you remain my top suspect, then I'll start campaigning for your lynch. Right now, I'm thinking you're the most likely scum, but not I'm not absolutely sure you are.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: Okay, you're starting to make yourself look really bad again, especially with that last post. Just want to say you're rising up on my scum bar again.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm making myself look bad because foilist is lacking any sort of logic in his posts and instead seems satisfied with calling me a VI and calling my points crap without giving reasons. Right. You're a terrible scumhunter then, sorry to tell you.

To be honest, you yourself haven't been making too much sense with your case on foilist13. Also, foilist13 has been using some sort of logic. It seems like you're pushing suspicious on him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm making myself look bad because foilist is lacking any sort of logic in his posts and instead seems satisfied with calling me a VI and calling my points crap without giving reasons. Right. You're a terrible scumhunter then, sorry to tell you.

To be honest, you yourself haven't been making too much sense with your case on foilist13. Also, foilist13 has been using some sort of logic. It seems like you're pushing suspicious on him.

He's incriminating himself while defending nhammen by calling my case crap - he admitted to what nhammen accused him of under the assumption that nhammen was accusing him of a lesser offense.

I really don't see the problem in admitting that you've commited a scum tell. That means that the person who is pushing the case is doing something beneficial to town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: Why did you list Unsight as a list of brick walls in this game? He/She has been doing pretty good in this game so far.

@nhammen: Why do you expect people to give out a top six suspect list? Some people may not be able to even find that many.

@Chronopie: Answer this question from Leafsnail. Stop dodging it:

Chronopie - I want to ask you a fairly simple question - who do you think is scum? I ask as your last 4 posts don't seem to contain any mention of it. Your last two posts especially look active lurky, discussing how stupid the masons are instead of looking for scum.

Okay, so I'm leaning scum toward Sevis, especially since Vi successfully pointed out he was being hypocritical.

I'm not liking foilist13's case on Leafsnail. I for one give Leafsnail a slight pro-town read and Leafsnail is actually defending himself well. This is giving me the feeling that foilist13 is suspecting people because the person disagrees with him or finds something scummy with him. Congratulation foilist13, you've just lost your town read from me.

To be honest, Dr. Robotnik's defense has been okay, so

Unvote

for the moment. I would vote nhammen, but I think he'll improve later on.

Now I agree that Chronopie is dangerous to town. I agree with the case here, he has been completely useless! Chronopie, you're officially my top suspect, try getting out of that mud:

Vote: Chronopie

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why do I feel that everyone has forgotten that I'm part of this game?

It's probably because you haven't really been active lately. The prod that you just got today supports that conclusion.

@SerialClergyman: I honestly say I do agree with you. This game is getting confusing and I believe it's affecting the quality of my game play here. I feel like eventually I'll lose interest in this game and I don't want that to happen. That doomed town in Newbie Mafia 934 where I was town and basically lost commitment to the game (It was in LyLo). As a result, I was lynched and flipped town, thus, scum won.

Let's review the bandwagons. First, it was me and Parama, then it was Dr. Robotnik, then it was nhammen, and as of right now, it's Chronopie's turn. I honestly hope we settle into Chronopie because I'm satisfied with a lynch on him already. Who's next, foilist13? I'm tired of changing votes so frequently and I myself want a soild ground to place my final vote in.

Now who is to blame for these numerous bandwagons in the game? I personally think it's a manipulative scum tactic that is trying to confuse town with mislynches, which would lead to an easy scum victory. We should all keep this in mind for now on. Everyone needs to re-read the thread to see who is most likely responsible for all these bandwagons made.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I disagree with you SSBF, I personally like seeing how people react to bandwagons. For example the way nahmen reacted to his, I dunno, bandwagons help me make easier reads.

Also pman should freakin post. I mean seriously dude.

The problem isn't that there is bandwagons (They can be beneficial if done properly), the problem is that too many bandwagons has been formed in such a short time and then disappear a couple days later. If the amount of bandwagons goes out of control, we may end up scrammbling for a terrible lynch or worse, end up with a no lynch. Eventually, we need to settle upon a good lynch candidate to lynch, but in order to do that, we need to start solidfying our vote spots.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Every day during the school day, I have to do some sort of catching up. It sucks to do it, but at least it shows that I'm having a lot of fun in this game and that I am very commited to it.

Like I said, I think we've overdone bandwagons long enough. A bandwagon on Sevis makes me groan because I despite a neutral-scummy read, I really don't want him to get lynched ToDay (Save him for later). More on this later with a seperate post dedicated to this.

@nhammen: You ask people to list out six suspects. Now, list your six suspects as well and explain why you find them suspicious.

Wait what? Putting forward some effort? scum hunting? defending himself? Where do you see any of this happening?

In his ISO I see him A) attack vezo for rolefishing B) unvote and spend many posts discussing whether people should be voting Masons (I agree that people shouldn't) C) attacks lurkers. He has stated that his supisions are lurkers + me.

Want quotes on where he scum hunt and defend himself? Here they are:

Scum hunting

:

@daniel: Your last post looked really bad. Why did you made a bigger size and bold? And you know how I got that information.

My top two suspicions are pman and nahmenn. Nahmen doesn't say a whole lot of anything until he's attacked then suddenly its pages upon pages. That doesn't add up for me. Also a roleblocker role while possible IMO is rather unlikely and has a higher likelihood of hurting the town. Also I agree with paranama above. Nahmen goes from posting hardly anything to posting books, to posting nothing. That seems like scum to me. While I wanted to prolong the day phase with voting pman and getting him to speak up, I'm comfortable after reading his posting amount to suspect that he's mafia. I mean posting a lot when you're attacked, posting nothing when suspicion dies down. Unvote pmann, Vote Nhammen

With that said i may just be more suspicious of him because pman has had like 3 posts. One of them hopping on the nahmen bandwagon without any discussion and a post back 4 pages saying he was "going to catch up" I think he's lurking.

I'm was voting pmann in an attempt to prolong the day phase so that pman and some other silent people speak up.

Defends himself

:

wait wtf? He wasn't saying he could if he wanted to? I he was rolefishing. I don't know how you can't get that from what he said.

How have I done no scumhunting? I just went through the entire thread and counted posts and found some lurkers.

I also don't really buy that there is a townie roleblocker.

So my suspicions are the lurker list above combined with you. Particularly pman as I said above, he's had like 3 posts, 1 of them randomly jumping on the wagon with no analysis.

Since i want this day phase to last longer and get pman to slip up: Unvote Vote pman

I agree with his statements about robotnik. But wait, he finds robo suspicious for mainly talking about Masons... Who else has been mainly talking about Masons? askbob!! And he thought askbob was slightly pro-town.

@SSBF Why do you find a difference in robo's talking about Masons and askbob's talking about Masons?

Dr. Robotnik has made very few successful contributations to the game overall and it seems like he's not even trying. His "I can only go on the computer once a day" excuse sucks because he's post more then once a day. askbob is at least trying to contribute to the game in some manner.

substance? original thoughts? Were you reading the same Lowell I was? I admit, there are some, but very little. Not enough to mention.

Substance and original thoughts in order:

2) Super townpoints for midnight. NO way scum follows 181 with the hilariously-honest 183.

^^^ that was the longest post to add nothing ever.

unvote, vote robotnik. Why is it that people bandwagon early, but by page 10 or so everyone loses their nerve?

I agree with your assessment of 319, and robo's latest is no better. Moreover, I'd dispute that a 6-person wagon is a big deal. That's not even halfway there, so if you're suggesting this will become a convenient "quicklynch" then I doubt it. If he gets lynched he'll deserve it.

I find SCs explanation satisfactory, and consider him pro-town (I also see a little bit of SC-buddying from robo in his last post, but I think that's trying to latch onto a confident player rather than them both being scum).

Not once have I remembered anyone else saying any of those things before Lowell said them.

Activity level acceptable!? Are you crazy? Most of her posts have been "catching up" posts. WHy is this considered acceptable?

To be honest, I think it is getting bad, so I have no choice but to agree with you on the matter.

In multiscum, scumhunting does not equal Town. And his scumhunting looks off. I can still see a neutral-ish lean though.

Actually, scum hunting when done well is always pro-town, regardless of circumstances. How is this a exception to the rules in multi-scums games?
Sorry about so many quotes that makes it seem more important that it is, I'm having a bad day due to me finding out I failed a state test. Hopefully, my mood will be up again later so I'll get my big post about bandwagons up.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Vi: Okay, so you're basically saying you want the more active people like me, you, Parama, and others to back off and force them to take center stage? No thanks, I'd rather be active then lurk in the game, look what happen to daniel due to his lurking.

Now granted, I would love to see more out of all of them in this game, but don't force the active people into inactivity and the inactive people into super-activeness. Prods or replacements can fix that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

May I have all of your undivided attention here for one moment?

Just yesterday, I realize we have another problem. As if trying to find scum and dealing with unhelpful/scummy people isn't bad enough for town, we have another major problem. It's the consistent bandwagons that are being formed like every day or two, then suddenly disappear.

Now granted, bandwagons are useful for giving us easier reads on a person and it jump starts the game into serious discussions, early bandwagons that don't go into lynches when we have plenty of time left are always good. However, I feel that there has been way too many of them in such a short time period. This means that their isn't really enough time for some people to actually analyize the person being bandwagoned and the people on the bandwagon. As people are more concerned about current events, some people may ignore past events entirely, which lies important evidences that people may not have used.

Some of the bandwagons have been beneficial to the game, I will admit (Parama, Chronopie), but others have been unecessary and feels like people are voting for the sake of bandwagonning or end up not getting much off of (Sevis, Dr. Robotnik).

As a matter of fact, I'm worried they're actually starting to hurt town overall. Most people seem to have the "I think this guy is scummy, but he has a bandwagon on him, I'll vote for him! Even thought I may have other more major suspicion that haven't really been pressured a lot yet." mentality. Ladies and gentlemens, this mentality is dangerous to town and we need to think about that

now

. If we continue to make multiple bandwagons without really coming to a conclusion on who we think is scum, eventually, we'll realize that deadline is coming up very soon and because we wasted it on making bandwagons, we don't know who to lynch. We're most likely going to end up with a terrible lynch or worse yet, a no lynch at all.

The bandwagons frenzy nearly got nhammen lynched before even a week passed in the game and we currently have over a month to decide on a lynch. That's a lot of time to decide on a lynch folks, so we need to use it to our advantages, and using most of the time forming bandwagons that disappear quickly isn't going to benefit town.

When a relatively experienced player complains about the frequency of bandwaggoning that ends quickly (SerialClergyman), you know it's being overdone to the point where it can hurt town.

Another thing, this is giving excuses for lurkers to hide even more in the mess we're in. Dr. Robotnik and pman5595 are HUGE examples of this. Continuing at this pace will let them give them more oppertunity to lurk and avoid major bandwagons.

On top of that, this could eventually cause another problem to town, inactivity. Pomegranate is feeling that she's losing interest in this game because there's too many things going on in this game. I'm worrying about losing interest in this game as well, as the bandwagons are starting to make the game confusing, instead of helping us. On top of that, Faraday had to replace daniel due to daniel being inactive in this game and theit wasn't really any reasons for him to drop out. Inactivity is basicaly disrespecting the mod who is in charge of the game. If you're inactive, you're getting replaced. Being replaced due to inactivity is a waste of time for mods. What if MichelSableheart needs to replace someon for a valid reason but can't find one? He will have no choice but to perform a mod-kill. If it's a townie, we go into Night. Sure we'll be lucky if we hit scum, but mod-kills should not be occuring with people who has to leave for valid reasons.

So how do we end all these unecessary bandwagons bullshit that benefits no one but scums? Well, do these things:

1. Start coming to concrete conclusions:

Try your best to stay firm with your votes. Only switch votes when you're absolutely certain a person is a top suspect or if it is needed for a lynch. Votes that sound like bandwagons isn't coming to concrete conclusions, it's just switching votes around for what might be valid or invalid reasons. For those who rarely change votes during the bandwagon incident (Not pointing fingers, you know who you are), I'd like to give you the time to say thank you, you are really benefitting town.

2. Find people who is the most responsible for the bandwagons and attack them:

I'm getting the feeling that this is a well-planned scum tell to confuse townies with multiple bandwagons and they plan on using this usually town tactic against us. The best way to counter this is to re-read the entire thread (It will be a pain, but it could be worth it) and the worst offenders of the bandwagons should have more focus put upon. Therefore, they'll actually have to defend their reasons for all this bandwagon shennagian they've caused. It is very well possible that a scum might be involved in this.

Either way, in order to help win the game for town, we need to shut down this problem right in it's path. If you're planning on making a bandwagon, be absolutely sure we can gather something from it.

Tomorrow, I will re-read the thread to see what I can find (If possible). I expect everyone else to do the same. I know you may not agree with me, but this is an another issue we need to worry about.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Although I am usually uneasy about lynches when we have plenty of times, I'm perfectly comfortable with having Chronopie lynched. He has been incredibly scummy in this game and has barely contributed to well anything. I swear if I here Vanilla Townie I will shout something to him.

However, in the circumstance that he flips town, we need to look at the people on Chronopie's bandwagon. It seems like some of them jumped on the bandwagon for the sake of it and I don't like that.

Faraday is improving over daniel. It's nice to see him contributing to the game, even thought he's probably not done re-reading. He's still scummy, but he's a lower priority for now.

No. I'm voting Chronopie.

Way to completely dodge a simple question that wouldn't have hurt you much in the first place. With twenty-four people, naming off four suspects should not be that difficult.

Would like to hear more about this.

Okay, now I'll explain more in detail. To be honest, I really don't think Sevis is deserving of a bandwagon. A bandwagon on Sevis would give us very little information to work on and it wouldn't give us much more if he were to get lynched, unless he flipped scum. Even then, I don't see much of a connection Sevis has with other players. If I want a lynch, I want one on a person who has played much worse then Sevis did. A Chronopie lynch for example, would give us something to work on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So Chronopie, you gave up and self-hammered.

I honestly do hope you flip scum. Your game play was absolutely terrible from start to finish. Your death was completely and utterly well-deserved.

If you do flip scum, I will be looking harshly at Midnight's Sorrow for trying to buy you time to defend yourself when you were already doomed.

Oh and I'd like to tell you something. You just disrespected the mod of this game by giving up via self-hammer. If you self-hammer to kill yourself, you are a quitter. I suggest reading over your posts in this game in the future and I hope you facepalm.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I had a really strong town read from Vi, as did most other people. This is something worth looking into. We need to look at people who conflicted with him and who thought Vi was scummy.

@vezopiraka: That would be animorpherv1.

@Parama: We have to remember that Vi got a strong town read from a lot of people here, especially me who at one time consider him my strongest town read, so no surprise he died.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

We must find out who the mafia targeted. I think the werewolfs killed Vi because they thought it was from an opposing faction.

Finding out who the Mafia targeted will probably put us in a WIFOM situation that'll leave little room for scum hunting, plus putting us in danger of being lynched.

I remember using that argument in Newbie Mafia 934 at the beginning of Day 2 and it didn't turn out well. So yeah, main focus should be scum hunting.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow. Your ISO made my head hurt... almost EVERYTHING you posted is irrelevant fluff, and none of your posts seem to be even vaguely connected to each other. You also jump on the chrono wagon for no reason at all.

You are pretty much the most active-lurkery player I have ever seen.

This. Had it not been for a possible role block and nhammen's roleblocker claim, I would be going stright atfter him. Until nhammen tells us who he blocked...

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

No offense. Well, might as well do other stuff now and laugh at the argument that will ensure be halirious later.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

who did nhammen roleblock? Whoever it was that's who I'm voting for.

For all we know, nhammen's Roleblocker claim might be a safeclaim. We shouldn't vote for that particular person based solely off what he said that he roleblocked. We need to look at the evidence of the person he roleblocked and then if we think he's scummy enough, vote for the person.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Timeater: There are legitimate reasons for suspecting Midnight's Sorrow and placing a vote on him. This isn't one of them.

And before I forget,

HoS: Timeater

.

@Unsight: Vi had a town read from most people here, with a few exception (You for example). As a matter of fact, he was generally considered the strongest townie. Everyone saw this coming, not just Mafioso members.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Really?

There are??

I can think of three:
1. You posted a LOT of fluff. Most of your posts don't really contribute to much of anything. Prove to me that the majority of your posts have actually contributed to the game.

2. You're currently being very, very defensive. Most of your posts can ben summed up as "I am not scum, stop attacking me!".

3. Making promises, but not really fufilling them. Your first promise said you would contribute a lot more, but most of these posts have been fluffs. You promised HUGE contribution during Day 2. Please make due, I will be watching you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF:



Im so sorry that I rarely make big wall posts like you do. Im sorry that I sometimes feel that only a few lines, and maybe a few paragraphs are all that's needed sometimes. I'm sorry I don't scum hunt the same way you do. I can't believe what I was thinking trying to be an individual in here and make my own way in this low some world. I'm sorry that have to defend my self from the great onslaught of stupid that is my wagon, I'm so lost a to what to do, your post made me smile~ Im sorry that my contribution is not good enough for you. I bow to you good sir

Sarcastic or not, that way one big Appeal To Emotion. I'm LOLing that you're failing so hard.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Okay, time to look at SGRaaize's actions before placing a vote on him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Jimbob...wrong game -.- AGAIN!

Uuuh, yeah, you were skimming big time.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And @ SSBF, I wasn't skimming I'm just popping in between the two games that Midnight sorrow unfortunately is in.

I was talking to Midnight's Sorrow on that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

*raises eyebrow*

How exactly was that skimming...


....You people confuse and confound me like nobody's business~

You said that askbob (jimbob to you) was using the wrong game again. He wasn't. That's why it was skimming.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Don't we have to at least allow for the possibility of a doc save? nhammen could have gotten targeted as a claimed PR and someone could have doc saved him for the same reason. If we do lynch SGR and he flips town, we can't assume that means nhammen scum, and if SGR flips scum we can't assume nhammen town. Just saying.

LynchMePls brings up a good point. We don't know if nhammen actually killed the person, he might be a lying scum bag under a safe claim. This is why I am not prepare to lynch SGRaaize quite yet.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I was thinking that he was killed because almost nobody saw him as scummy, and he was producing content and good reads. Why would looking at who thought he was scummy help?

You do have a point there, but the truth is, it is rare when a person doesn't receive any kind of suspicion in a Day, especially later in the game.

But to be honest, it's kind of difficult to give a good answer to your question. Maybe I'll check back later, unless you really want it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I just thought up of something else. The scums on the Werewolf side may have very well chosen not to kill anyone as a strategic plan. Hasn't anyone taken that into consideration?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Foilist13, ISO: 31 was very hypocritical out of you.

You said this:

Jesus Christ, what is it with you people and wagoning?

Then you went on to say this:

Right now nhammen's blosk is the best bit of evidence we've got, so for now vote:SGR

You condemn us for wagoning, but you basically followed the SGRaaize bandwagon yourself. On top of that, we don't know if nhammen actually blocked SGRaaize, as a matter of fact, he even said that he didn't know if he actually roleblocked SGRaaize.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

ISOing SGRaaize, this is what I found out of him:

1. Emphasize too much on quotes. Example is ISO: 10 where most of the post contained of quotes.

2. Attempts to pull a case against Lowell, but initially failed to explain why he found those both quotes suspicious. Basically, he asked us to read the quotes and see what we get out of it, which some people will just not want to do.

3. Claims to be defensive, but doesn't really defend himself.

All this gives me a null, leaning scum read from him. While nhammen's claim that he roleblocked SGRaaize is not concrete proven true, it is some form of evidence, as nhammen did claim Roleblocker back in Day 1 and nhammen might be right. Overall, I am fairly suspicious of SGRaaize, but I'm still not ready to lynch him yet. Give the replacement time to contribute to the game before killing that slot off, it wouldn't be right if we did that, plus, in the circumstances that he is town, we wouldn't have gotten much out of Day 2.

Plus, while this might be evidence that SGRaaize is a scum, we shouldn't kill him yet. As me and Parama has stressed, we don't know if nhammen is right about this and we shouldn't jump to conclusion that just because nhammen said he role blocked SGRaaize, it doesn't me he's instant scum.

Basically, these are my suspects from least scummiest to most scummiest:
6. nhammen
5. Parama
4. pman5595
3. Dr. Robotnik
2. Timeater
1. Midnight's Sorrow

HoS: Timeater

HoS: Dr. Robotnik

FoS: pman5595

FoS: Parama

FomS: nhammen

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So again we have someone saying they think someone is scum...and yet they don't vote them?

Put your votes where your mouths is people....this is starting to get ridiculous >.>

The reason why I'm not voting for any of my five other suspects is because you're currently my favorite lynch candidate for ToDay. Having multiple suspects in this game is good because it means you're willing to focus on other people aside from your top suspect while putting key focus on your top suspect.

I'll

Confirm Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

.

@Mod:
1. I've already voted for Midnight's Sorrow, I'm just confirming it.
2. If you're having problems finding a replacment for SGRaaize, why not contact Goatrevolt or Nikanor? Both signed up to be a replacement in your signup thread.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Wrong SSBF

You practically said you found evidence that SGR is scummy, but say keep him alive for now?

SGRaaize has dropped scum tells, but not in the magnitudes of my other suspects so far.

The reason why I want to keep SGRaaize alive for now is because first of all, no one, NOT even nhammen knows if SGRaaize was actually roleblocked, let alone a Mafioso member. While nhammen did say that SGRaaize was his top suspect, we can't confirm that this is true. Although it is evidence, I take it with a grain of salt for the moment.

Also, SGRaaize is getting replaced. Which means we shouldn't lynch him yet, wait until his replacement gets to contribute to the game and claim before going for a lynch. It's too early to lynch a person yet.

Not only that, but he seems to have failed to hit your scummy list...right after you siad he was scummy?

How does that happen SSBF? Is he scummy or not? That is the question~

Given the chance that nhammen's claim that SGRaaize has been roleblocked is true, I do find SGRaaize fairly scummy, but I want to see what his replacement does before supporting an SGRaaize lynch.

He is a suspect, but I'm putting less priority on him then my top six.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

With 24 players and 1 NK, I'd say there was probably at least TWO kills blocked last night, not just one.

So if nhammen "blocked" someone, I'd say it's a good guess that person has a killing role.

I highly doubt there's two roleblocker in the game. Plus, if you haven't paid attention, Chronopie got lynched.

We now have twenty-two players left. I highly doubt we have a vigilante in this game.

But this is all role speculation that's eventually going to fade away anyway, so let's all stop this nhammen role speculation until we actually get some proof.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Okay, defindently

FoS: askbob

. He has produced little substance ToDay and there's absolutely no reason why not. He followed a bandwagon with not really that much backing and voting SGRaaize even thought we don't know if nhammen is right or now. Nhammen was also right about most of askbob's posts containing talking about masons. There's also no excuse for not contributing much ToDay either, he's been active in another game. His reasoning for voting Midnight's Sorrow didn't really make much sense either, while others at least had legitimate reasons for suspecting Midnight's Sorrow. Might as well read askbob's ISO.

@Lowell: You do realize that the only way to prove role and alignments without getting our butts kicked out by the mods is by lynches? We have plenty of time to decide on a lynch, lynching now would give us little information to go on, especially since SGRaaize had to replace out. Plus we are still waiting on a replacement for SGRaaize, give the replacement some time to contribute and even claim if it comes that far. If he fails to prove himself as a valueable member, then we can lynch him. Not now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF:

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But are you actually (In context) saying that the only way you can scum hunt is by targeting the 'lurkers'? That is pretty much 90% of your list...

Absolutely not. I look at many other things in the game other then activity and lurking. I look for fluffy posts, contradictions, hypocritical points, etc, etc.

Also, 50% of the people I listed above are not passive lurkers. They include nhammen, Parama, and last but not least, you.

@askbob (Post #1051): Congratulation on one big awesome post. Let's dissect all your wonderous post as I praise each and every one of them:

I don't know why I'm getting flak for voting SGR

Nahmen role blocked him,
there was no kill


Yes there could have been a doctor or a bulletproof. However the best lead I have is nahmen's roleblock.

He gives a glorious reason for voting SGRaaize, even thought it is basically the same as almost every single vote on him. This means he does such a great job of parroting other people. And wait, it is brillant that he's following stuff said by nhammen that may or may not be true.

Now for Midnight's Sorrow he just seems to be acting differently than the other game especially with everyone bandwagoning on him. No one's done that in the other game i'm in so I wouldn't know if his reaction would be the same.

Another downright fantastic section of this post. The main reason for this is because he is very hypocritical, but to add icing to the cake, he makes himself hypocritical twice. First off, he was in Midnight's Sorrow bandwagon when it was relatively hot, not to mention without good reasons. Secondly, he right now is in SGRaaize's bandwagon when we don't know if we have evidence or not, making him hypocritical twice.

Scumlist:

SGR
pman (i mean come on like one post a day, he's just posting to not be prodded)
nhammen (had a scummy feel on him yesterday due to his posting a ton whenever anyone calls him out most of which is just quotes)
Midnight's Sorrow (just an overly emotional defense that seemed weak to me)

The best part about the post, his scum list. All of these reasons have already been explained before, making him a great parrot to be around. No original reasons makes everything awesome.

Congratulation askbob, you sir have made one of the greatest posts ever made in this forum. By resorting to parroting other people, voting someone based off stuff that may or may not be true and being very hypocritical, I bow down to you in godliness. And as a reward for all these efforts you've put into that post:

Unvote, Vote: askbob

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Like others, I find it suspicious that animorpherv1 said "I can't keep up, I'm replacing out!", which is a relatively crappy excuse for not playing. I want to suspect him but I'll get attacked maliciously by other people because Seraphim claimed Mason and apprently, we can't suspect Masons and Monks.

Someone give me the right to suspect claimed monks and masons and I will look at vezopiraka, Seraphim/animorpherv1, LynchMePls, and daniel/Faraday more.

@foilist13: What order are you planning on analysis on other people?

Animorpherv1 hasn't contributed anything yet.

@SSBF: If you're concerned about parroting you should add Animorpherv1 to your scum list.

Except one problem. If we suspect the claimed Masons/Monks, we'll be attacked with the "I AM A MASON/MONK, I AM TOWNIE!" excuse that I don't want to hear again.

You know what? Screw that excuse. I need to look at these players that claimed masons/monks more.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Of everyone in this game, I am the worst possible lynch for those reasons.

Yeah, I disagree. I have people with better reads from me. As a matter of fact, I'm becoming suspicious of you. You're not exactly my top lynch candidate, but you are in my suspect list.

Foams: foulest

Also, you and Parama need to stop arguing with each other so god damn much. This will either go absolutely nowhere and turn out to be a ton of fluff or something really detrimental to town. Either way, both of you need to cool down for awhile.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Sorry for the mispelling, I meant "foilist13". Not meaning to insult him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I would like to announce "The Claimed Masons Mini-Series!". I will go through three of the four confirmed mason (The one I'm not mentioning is Vezopiraka, because he's a "confirmed townie"). First off, Seraphim/animorpherv1.

Seraphim claimed Mason along with claiming Mason for Vezopiraka and daniel. This was meant to clear up a situation. However, when Vezopiraka and LynchMePls claimed Monks, things got really confusing. Basically, Seraphim's claim did nothing to help the situation, aside from "confirming" Vezopiraka as town.

After May 18, 2010, he goes into inactivity period. When he came back on May 20, 2010, he did it simply to join nhammen's bandwagon, which was big at the time. I was pretty mad about this because I was hoping for a lot better return from him then just agreeing with Parama on nhammen and placing a vote on him. He goes inactive again.

He comes back May 23, 2010 for the last time to say he's catching up. Sadly, this never happen. He got replaced by animorpherv1.

In the signup sheet, he showed excitement for this game saying he love Mafia and Werewolf mixtures. If he loved it so much, why did he flake out?

He went from a slightly town read to a considerable scum read.

animorpherv1 decided to join the SGRaaize bandwagon, saying it was the only semi-reasonable thing that could be a lynch. I highly disagreed, even thought I found SGRaaize suspicious, I wasn't prepared to kill him off. Plus nhammen was right that roleblocking could not have happen and that a doctor's protection was possible.

He also let other people do the talking, alas ISO: 5. His last post basically said "Too much posting, I can't keep up, need to be replaced!", which is bull because instead of two, MichelSableheart has to find three replacements. Whenever MichelSableheart will find them, I don't know.

Seraphim/animorpherv1's play has not been very good and animorpherv1 might have been slightly disrespectful.

I'm currently happy with my vote on askbob for now, but I'll give that slot an

FoS

.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Timeater: Can we at least explain why?
1st: askbob
2nd: Midnight's Sorrow
3rd: Parama

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Welcome Nikanor and Nachomamma8. When you get done reading the thread, tell us of your suspects.

Will work on daniel/Faraday's analysis now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And now, the second installment of "The Claimed Masons/Monks Mini-Series!", which will focus on daniel/Faraday.

daniel made almost no contributation to the game whatsoever. Most of his posts have been fluff written all over it. Sometimes, he can't seem to make up his mind, like for example, saying that I was town, but later saying he didn't know. He has been rolefishing in ISO: 9, saying that Vezopiraka was some sort of cop, but never backs it up. He usually fails to explain well why he found a particular person suspicious. Some of his posts are hard to read because they're in color. He makes big quotes, but adds very little. His promise of more content in his last post has not been fufilled. Overall, very poor play.

Faraday started out by jumping on the biggest bandwagon at the time (Chronopie). His reason for it is basically agreeing with other people on Chronopie. From ISO: 2 to ISO: 9, all he basically did was list his town reads and said he was re-reading. Town reads are nice, but if it gets in the way of scum hunting, that's feigned contribution. Then when nhammen said he role blocked SGRaaize, Faraday deciding to move his vote to SGRaaize, which is him basically bandwagoning. He has also not done much scum hunting throughout the game. Sadly, he is slightly better then daniel. Overall, I find daniel/Faraday suspicious and they are in my scum list.

Tomorrow, I conclude with LynchMePls.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: askbob has not posted within the last forty-eight hours

@Vezopiraka: Why am I suspicious to you? Would you mind explaining?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I am suspicious of you because..... Parama said you could be scum.

I swear by the name of God. If you weren't a "confirmed" townie, I would so place a vote on you. That was terrible explaination. If you're going to suspect me, give me reasons why.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

At last, the final episode of "The Claimed Masons/Monks Show!" is about to unfold in your eyes. Presenting, LynchMePls!

Interesting, but not good or bad: Numerous times, LynchMePls would use the "you're misreping me/another person" argument. I'm not sure why he does it so much, but I'm interested to know why.

The Bad: LynchMePls was relatively hypocritical where he asked accused Midnight's Sorrow of misreping him. Then he gets hypocritical when he said that Midnight's Sorrow answer wasn't what he really meant, which means he was misrepping him, therefore, making him hypocritical.

Day 2, he seems to tunnel Midnight's Sorrow a fair bit. Although it isn't nearly as bad as a few other people did, it is still there.

The Good: Unlike the other claimed Masons/Monks, LynchMePls is actually looking fairly town. He has done a lot of scum hunting in this game. His defenese has been relatively good as well. For a newbie, he has contributed a lot of substance in the game. I also like that he has original opinions on things.

The good outweights the bad on him, so for now, he's fairly pro-town and I'm willing to believe his claim.

There you have it. The show has officially ended. Please give thoughts on the mini-series I made throughout three days.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm not liking Leafsnail's tunneling. Yes I wasn't a fan of Midnight's Sorrow (Hence my previous Day 2 vote on him), but Leafsnail went on and on and on about Midnight's Sorrow and now foilst13. It's also hypocritical because he called Parama for tunneling, when he's doing the same thing now.

I agree with Unsight. Unsight made a good point about Pomegranate lack of contirbuation to the game. I also noticed that Pomegranate frequently makes content promises, but never delievers them. I'm going to

FoS: Pomegranate

@Nachomamma8: Your vote seemed to contain absolutely no reason why you voted nhammen? Was this a placement vote until you found your top suspect and finish reading or was it serious? I'm fixing to call foul on that post.

Suspect list coming up at the end of this post. If you want me to explain, tell me and I will.

@SSBF Apparently I AM taking crazy pills.

1. Please show me where I misrepresented anyone especially MS, or where I tunneled MS D1.

I disagreed about MS over what I said, as he kept saying that I was saying daniel was scum. I wasn't saying that, I was saying that if there was a Mason/WW daniel was most likely to be it. We argued about that, but I certainly didn't "tunnel". I don't even remember if I voted him, but if I did, it didn't stay that way for long. Compare this to Parama, and I don't know how you can call that tunneling.

2. Please, for my sanity, show me where I misrepresented MS. I'll either apologize for the misrep, or explain why it wasn't one. The last thing I want to be is a hypocrite.

1. You just misrep me there.. I accused you of tunneling Midnight's Sorrow Day 2, not Day 1.

Most of your posts from ISO: 50 (First post from you on Day 2 I believe) to ISO: 72 have been focused on Midnight's Sorrow. The tunneling isn't as clear cut as from Leafsnail or Parama, but it is still there. I can pick out the part where you responded to Midnight's Sorrow if you want me to.

This is where you misrep Midnight's Sorrow:

This is exactly what I meant.

It isn't what you said. You said

Please come up with a better reason as to why you think daniel is scum LMP.

I asked you why you thought he was scummy

You accused Midnight's Sorrow of misrepresenting you here. Yet you did the exact same thing. It makes you look hypocritical.

1. I also think your Mason/Monk "mini series" was a complete waste of time. Almost distracting. I don't think any of the Masons or Monks are anywhere near as scummy as other players in the game,

and I think your efforts would have been much better used on those players.

2. And you calling me a newbie makes me laugh.

1. I did the Masons/Monks series because I wanted people to realize that just because you claimed Masons/Monks, it doesn't mean you're auto-town. Even with the claim, I'm suspicious of Seraphim/animorpherv1 and daniel/Faraday.

2. As for me calling you a newbie, it's because this is probably your first game on the site (Correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not indicating that you're a bad player at all, it's just that this is the first game I've seen you played on this site.

@SSBF

Are you any closer to finding scum with those 3 walls of text or were you just cluttering the thread to make it harder for the rest of us?

I'll explain why I did this. I was suspecting some of the claimed masons/monks and currently doubt two of the claims. While it is less likely for us to find scums within masons and monks, it cannot be ruled out as a possibility. I also wanted to rest assure that I will not be underestimating people because of claims any longer.

Suspect List (In no order)
1. askbob
2. daniel/Faraday
3. Seraphim/animorpherv1
4. pman5595/Nachomamma8
5. Parama
6. Timeater
7. Dr. Robotnik
8. Midnight's Sorrow
9. foilist13
10. Pomegranate

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF: Why isn't leafsnail on your suspect list? You put up 10 people without mentioning the person you went after line 1 of your post. I am confused by this.

I currently have a null read on Leafsnail. It takes me a while to put a person on my suspect list. I am willing to put him up on the suspect list if he continues to get worse, but not right now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What gives you ignore my question and go for a contentless vote on nhammen. Y u do dis?

ya i ignore u questshun cuz it suck and i alredy fond scum nhammen and askbob, with a socrates scum on the other team.

nd i dnt c y votin scum iz bad or contentless?

This posts made absolutely no sense whatsoever and I'm calling foul on it. If he keeps posting like this, I might as well be his English Correction Translation (Not that I want to do it (I don't) and kill him off later on if he doesn't improve.

Yes, I ignored your question because it sucks and I have already found nhammen and askbob to be scums, with Socrates being scum on the other team.

No I don't see you voting for these scums, which is either bad or not producing contents.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm pretty sure that's not what the second line said, but I honestly don't care that much. I've played with nacho before and I recall him having much better logic and english. I don't know what his deal is here

Same with me. I thought he was a fantastic player in my first game here (Newbie 934, he was my IC, got killed off Night 1, but still proves my point), so I'm not sure why the sudden change either. For now, lets assume these possibilities:

1. He's making these posts to rest assure he's still around and has a big post coming up.

2. He's caught up, but not really willing to share his honest thoughts.

3. He's a Jester (Unlikely, but still possible as Mini Normal games have had Jesters before).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

We need to deal with the claimed role. He wasn't killed despite being a claimed role and he claims to have blocked a kill. This needs to be dealt with, it's important.

In that case, let's start figuring this out. Basically, these are the four groups IMO and the people in them:

Townies:

SerialClergyman
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Unsight

People who have claimed:

Seraphim/animorpherv1
daniel94501/Faraday
vezopiraka
LynchMePls
nhammen

Null:

Dry-Fit
Leafsnail
Lowell
Sevis/Shrinehme
The Goat/Nikanor

Scums:

askbob
Dr. Robotnik
foilist13
Midnight's Sorrow
Parama
Pomegranate
SGRaaize/Socrates
Timeater
pman5595/Nachomamma8

There are two problems with this list:

1. The townie list is probably too small. With a group of three, this is going to be difficult to market any success out of this. We need a larger group.

2. The scum list is too high. Nine people that I'm currently suspecting. We need to try to trim it down to six or seven.

Despite that, what I'm trying to accomplish is this. I want to try to scruntize the scummy people first. If that fails, we go to people with a current null read. If that fails as well, our last choice is to pick out the claimed roles. This will be difficult to accomplish, I know, but it can be done.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If you want to scrutinize the scummy people first, why did you waste a whole day on that Mason/Monk review? Why not spend that time scrutinizing the scummy players, since you claim that you want to do that first?

1. I want people to know that all the claimed Masons/Monks were not completely spared (Except vezopiraka), as a matter of fact, you are the only person who has a town read from me out of the three people I talked about.

2. I've already dedicated a post very early in Day 1 about Parama. As for others, they've been mentioned numerous times so taking on each and every one of them would basically end up to be a big parrot of what has already been said.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

First of all - vezo is absolutely town. It'd be impossible for him to get 4 other people to verify his double mason status. So that's another in the town group. Next, I'm almost certain Parama is town based on read.

vezopiraka:

vezopiraka sounds like a good choice and I am going to add him to the Townie list, however, the problem is that he has played very anti-townie in my opinion, so I'm worried about cooperation. We can only hope it doesn't plauge the team.

Parama:

That would require both of us to settle our difference and work together. There has been very few instances that we've agreed with each other and I have a considerable scum read on Parama and vice versa. Plus cooperation problem may exist. Would you enlighten me to explain why Parama is almost certain town to you?

That picks us up to 5. Most of the scumlist could well be scum, but I don't see a huge difference between null and scum.

In some cases, scummy reads and null reads aren't that far off (foilist13 currently has a slightly scummy read from me, could be null if he keeps improving). However, in other instances, the difference is huge.

I think Lowell is probably town too, I've played with him 3 or so times and he seems to be being his town self, although his meta makes it tough to tell.

If I had to guess now, I would say he's townie. However, that's just gut feeling. Quality-wise, he has a null read from me. I'm not really comfortable with letting him in either unless I get some serious convincing.

However, I did forget I gave LynchMePls a considerable town read, so I guess he wouldn't be that much of a problem if he joins. However, he seems reluctant to our idea, so I'm not sure if we'll be able to convince LynchMePls to help us.

Townie List:

SerialClergyman
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Unsight
vezopiraka

Potential Candidates

Lowell
LynchMePls
Parama

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Nachomamma8: I do find Dr. Robotnik suspicious, but I don't think he scummy enough to warrant a vote. Why is he your top suspect?

Also, would you comment on me and SerialClergyman's ideas back in Pg. 54 if all else fails that can actually convince you to actually play the game?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@LynchMePls: I'll get to your question now:
Unsight has a pretty strong pro-town read from me. Unsight has contributed a lot of stuff in the game. Out of all the people, he pushed the best case on me so far, giving legitmate reasons for suspecting me. I also like how he actually focuses on his own suspects instead of following bandwagons like sheeps in most cases. One of my strongest town read.

Wow, not only are you lining up the town players, you're lining up the useful town players.

Vezopiraka has been very anti-town throughout most of the game and has been extremely unhelpful. Parama has a considerable scum read from me. Lowell hasn't really done much either. Not all the people have been super useful to the game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Nachomamma8: Very well, I will fufill the conditions in term for your case on Dr. Robotnik.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Yeah, Nachomamma8's post was fantastic:

Unvote, Vote: Dr. Robotnik

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF - How does a "I think these people are town" list help the town?

I'll explain what me and SerialClergyman were attempting to do:

SerialClergyman wanted in some way or form get the claimed roles dealt with and that it was important. He suggested that we formed a town group and I agreed. So I decided to set up four groups (Townies, Claimed Roles, Null, and Scums). My idea attempted to single out the scum reads first, then the null reads, and under the last circumstances, the claimed masons. I thought the group was too small, so we decided to look for more. We thought about a few candidates. Then we started to get attacked on (For legitimate reasons) by vezopiraka and foilist13, earning me and SerialClergyman a spot in foilist13's scum list. Others replied negatively as well.

Given that we've been called out on for attempting such things, I decided to drop the whole thing and move on with the game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Defindently going to do an analysis eventually. I want to get one done before a Day 2 lynch. Oh and this game is fixing to really heat up.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Sorry for acting like a newb, but what exactly is deflection? I haven't really seen it on Mafiascum Wiki.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm going to agree with Midnight's Sorrow in where a scum roleblocker is pretty high, but there has been examples of town roleblockers. However, scum roleblockers tend to be more helpful to there alignment then town roleblockers. nhammen's actions has mostly made up for the mistakes he's made, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility that he could be scum.

@vezopiraka: Seraphim claimed Masons for him, daniel (Now Faraday), and you. You and LynchMePls also claimed Monks. And the third replacement is SpyreX.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@vezopiraka: I might have said this before, but I might as well say it again:

I swear, if you weren't a confirmed townie, I would be pushing for your lynch right now. But you are a confirmed townie, so help us out here.

11 on each LIST. Need more townies itt.

This. Just below half the remaining players here are currently scummy in some way and form IMO (You are one of them, although not as bad as my more primary suspects). Out of the ten or so people I'm suspecting, one of them must be a scum member. However, six scums is the most likely combination here. As a matter of fact, I have a good idea for a question:

@Everyone: I want you to list out your top two to six suspects here with explaination why (No need to put in order, except that you mention your top suspicion). Also, do you think we're ready for a Day 2 lynch?

I'm planning on making a list of everyone's top two to six suspects. It won't include the explaination as it would make it too long, but it will include all suspects. I plan on updating this list daily.

One point is added to a person when they land on another person's second to sixth most scummiest group. Two point is added when a person is on another person's top suspect choice, which will be bolded.

askbob:
Faraday:
Dr. Robotnik:
Dry-fit:
foilist13:
Leafsnail:
Lowell:
LynchMePls:
Midnight's Sorrow:
nhammen:
Parama:
Nachomamma8:
Pomegranate:
SpyreX:
SerialClergyman:
Shrinehme:
Socrates:
Super Smash Bros. Fan:
Nikanor:
Timeater:
Unsight:
vezopiraka:

The benefit of this list is that it could help us find an general opinion on who we think is scum.

Once everyone has send in there choice, the six people with the most points will be put under death watch where they are guaratee to die unless they improve well enough (I will only do tallies at the end). Note that people suspicion's can still change as points will be taken away and added. People under death watch can be removed if enough people think they don't deserve it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF Isn't Spyrex already doing this, except without the crazy clutter that will be involved with close to 20 players all post 2-6 suspects and you spamming us with constant updates?

I'm not really seeing a similarity with his death list with my list here. This was not meant to be in competition with SpyreX's death list. If it was, then I wouldn't have came up with this list. Could someone (Preferably SpyreX or you) prove the similarity with SpyreX's list?

Spyrex's death list is fine enough, why derail it with? Do you disagree with his death list?

Shrinehme is slightly scummy, but not lynch-worthy yet. nhammen has a null read from me. I disagree with SpyreX on killing these people yet. His post was great, thought, I will give him that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

==Irrelavent to the game.==
@Dr. Robotnik: I'd recommend getting an avatar. Just saying as it will better identify you.
==Relavent to the game from here.==

Another bandwagon on me, simply because instead of simply totally lurking, I actually try to post unlike a bunch who actually just don't post at all and get away with it. Jesus.

First off, you haven't been nearly as active as other people here (Me, Parama, Socrates, Leafsnail, and LynchMePls are good examples of more active people then you).

Secondly,

this is completely wrong.

Nachomamma8's case on you deliberately explained all of the scummy acts that you have commited, such as being lazy, hypocritical, failing to explain things, poor responses, etc. Read his case on you and response to them properly.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Stale game is getting staler. Still a week to deadline.

Actually, there's over a month left to decide a lynch (July 13th, 2010). You miscalculated.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Thoughts on Dr. Robotnik lynch: As I am on his bandwagon, I would most defindently be glad to see him gone. However, I suggest waiting until Dr. Robotnik claims at L-1 before deciding if we should lynch him then or not.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Robotnik? Really?

You guys better be right or be prepared for a mega-touchlashing from me. What's the count, should I jump on or what?

I think I might have spotted a contradiction. You said that we should expect mega-touchlashing from you, but then you said if we should jump on the bandwagon. Why are you attempting to punish the people in his bandwagon if you ask if we should jump on?

This also sounds like you're planning on bandwagoning.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Lowell: That should be extremely obvious. Do I need to clarify it? Here's the quote:

Why are you attempting to punish the people in his bandwagon if you ask if we should jump on?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm going to look into Lowell more. I'm starting to get a bad vibe off of him.

@ssbf- because this wagon is in not smart, but I'm tired of arguing the point. I've explained why socrates is the obvious choice, but I'm willing to vote robo if that's what we're doing.

Okay then, here's a question. Do you think Dr. Robotnik is town?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Leafsnail and Midnight's Sorrow, stop catfighting with each other for awhile. This argument between the two of you have drag on way too long and I'm feeling like we're no longer getting much out of it. It also makes me feel you're tunneling on each other, which is making both of you look bad. Please remove some steam from each other and focus on other people.

I looked through Lowell's ISO and I'm not liking what I'm seeing out of him. I already called him out for two contradictions that he made. He is guilty of doing a ton of bandwagoning, giving either no reasons or poorly supported reasons in most cases that he does provide one. On top of that, Lowell has been active lurking. He managed to successfully slip by most people's (Mine as well until yesterday) radar by making low contents post with the occasional half-decent posts that he makes.

Not really looking good.

FoS: Lowell

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF:

It''s not a cat fight. He's been saying he thinks Sevis/Shrine is scum. Therefore he shouldn't be having any trouble joining it's wagon. He is seemingly adamant now about not lynching Sevis/Shrine anymore, and I just wondered why.

-shrug-

I wasn't concerned about the reason behind why I think that, it's the duration you and Leafsnail have been at each other throats for. You've been basically arguing at each other for the most of Day 2 and I'm sick and tired of hearing both of you arguing with each other.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF being neutral on me is kind of weird. He gave me Town vibes though, so I dunno.

Actually, I have a slightly scummy read on you. Just that I don't consider you lynch worthy for the moment.

My vote is on scum and I'm happy to keep it there. Both Socrates and Midnight's Sorrow are far more likely to be scum than Dr. Robotnik or Sevis/Shrinehme.

Didn't you say earlier you weren't completely satisfied with starting the Midnight's Sorrow bandwagon?

And we already did push Midnight's Sorrow. The result was practically zero scum hunting and lots of "lol wut" type posts. That's not the "oh let's go look elsewhere" signal, that's the "DIE SCUM DIE" signal.

Basically sums up what I think we got from Midnight's Sorrow. It also created a huge mess for town to clean up (As if finding scum wasn't challenging enough). How do we balance cleaning up the mess and finding scum is the question.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just based on a quick bandwagon analysis Vote: vezopiraka

That was a horrible vote. vezopiraka is basically confirmed townie, as he was claimed to be both a Town Mason and a Town Monk. Therefore, it is impossible for vezopiraka to be scum. Yes his play has been anti-town, but we can't afford to lynch vezopiraka.

If not from that, why is vezopiraka your top suspect?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Seriously dude, I clearly said "After a quick bandwagon analysis..."
Hence, that is all I did - analyze bandwagons, quick reads coming up I hope

The main point of that post were that you voted a confirmed townie and that you gave us absolutely nothing to work on, which was absolutely inexcusable. You didn't explain why the person was worthy of a vote. Even a quick bandwagon analysis, you could have at least given us something to work on.

And please, do your catch-up post. I don't want excuses for not particapating in this game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@LynchMePls: I agree, although I don't think the game is stale. For example, I'd like to see a fitting conclusion to Nachomamma8's case on Dr. Robotnik.

@Parama: Yes, shorter deadline would be fantastic. We would still be on Day 1 had we not lynched.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I also seem to recall SSBF talking about how shorter days are bad for the town (was that this game?) so it's downright scummy to see him going "Woohoo shorter deadlines!"

Shorter days then usual are bad for the town, obviously. This is why I like to have lynches when it gets close to the deadline.

However, a deadline that last for over a month is

too long

. I'll explain why.

Let's say that we waited until near the end of Day 1 deadline (Which hasn't really even arrived yet and we're on Day 2!). Then we got two Night Kills per Day. That means it would take about eight Days to finish the game. If we waited until near the end of each Day, this would round up to about a year in real time. By then, we would have received a bucket load more replacements then we already had to deal with and activity will be a lot lower then it is now. People are already starting to call this game stale.

I'm all up for three weeks deadline. With this, we would have a satisfactory amount of time that has already been dedicated to a Day and we run a lower risk of loss of interest in the game. Two weeks deadline are fine as well, as a matter of fact, when I start modding Mafia games, I'm planning on imposing this deadline onto my games. However, anything above a three week deadline (Unless it was some form of endurance challenge) puts the game at risk of tons of inactives and low activity near the end of the game,

when activity is most important

.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Battle Mage: Why are you asking one or two people to die Tommorow if Shrinhme flips town? I honestly don't see how that's going to reflect on the town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Does anyone noticed that Midnight's Sorrow is tunneling Shrinehme now? Most of his posts recently has been dedicated to attacking him. His defense isn't that good either.

I was asking for a couple people to demonstrate courage in their convictions. The results will become clear tomorrow. I'm glad that Nikanor is here. lol

You're not making much sense here. It makes me feel like you're going to randomly choose a person on the bandwagon IF Shrinhme flips town. Sure you ask people to step up, but if we kill Parama/another person willing to risk his own life Day 3 and that person flips town, what do you think we'll accomplish?

Has everyone seemingly forgotten that there are two scum groups, Mafia and Werewolves?? Cause I swear to God, every time I see some of your posts I feel that you have...>.>;;

Weren't you the one to say it didn't make a difference, regardless of scum alignment? I think this is some serious flip-flopping here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Leafsnail: IMO, Midnight's Sorrow is one of the scummiest people in the game. His play has been ridiculously scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

. It's outrageous how long we kept you alive. You seriously need to die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

About Nachomamma8's claim, I'm mixed on it. He's a one-shot vigilante, since he already used it, he can't shoot anymore. I will only believe it if we do not ever receive anymore then two kills per Night. If another 3rd kill were to happen, I'm going to be suspecting that he could be a Serial Killer. It is very well possible (Although unlikely) that we had a doctor save and a roleblock Night 1.

If he's so scummy then why did you spend the last half a dozen pages voting Dr. Robotnik?

I wanted to find out why Dr. Robotnik was Nachomamma8's top suspect at the time. I asked him a few times. Finally, he made a deal with me that he would provide a case on Dr. Robotnik under one condition: I would either have to refute the argument or vote Dr. Robotnik. After seeing his case on Dr. Robotnik, I voted him.

I might be town

I find this post scummy. So you're basically admitting that you could be scum? I don't like it.

FoS: Socrates

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Regarding the four bandwagons, I'm willing to support either a Dr. Robotnik's bandwagon, a Midnight's Sorrow's bandwagon, or a Socrates's bandwagon, although I prefer to lynch Midnight's Sorrow ToDay. I would be very uncomfortable with an Unsight's lynch, thought.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Super Smash Bros Fan: Would you be willing to support a Socrates wagon now? That seems to be the most prominent wagon with several people off the wagon having voices serious suspicions.

Not yet. I have scummier people I want to deal with, like Midnight's Sorrow. While I wouldn't mind a Socrates lynch Day 3, I prefer a lynch on Dr. Robotnik or Midnight's Sorrow over Socrates instead. I do want him gone before Lylo, that's for sure, but I will only support a lynch on him under one of two conditions:

1. Socrates is the only lynch that's going to happen.
2. He becomes my top suspect.

I'm not going to switch my vote yet just because nhammen said he blocked Socrates. We don't know if nhammen actually blocked Socrates or if Socrates was town that was saved by a doctor. nhammen saying that he potentially blocked Socrates is evidence, but not proof.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So glad that Midnight's Sorrow is a choice. Midnight's Sorrow should die ToDay. There's no excuse for him living this long.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Dr. Robo was extremely scummy yesterday, so my aim was to push his lynch and kill nhammen during the night.

If you've thought that Dr. Robotnik was so scummy, why didn't you choose to Night Kill him instead of nhammen?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I do find it suspicious that SSBF says he finds four people scummy, including Socrates, but won't vote for him unless A) He's close to being lynched (Which he is) or B) A bandwagon against anyone else doesn't form (Unsight has a little one, but Socrates still dwarves that one).

These were my two reasons:

1. Socrates is the only lynch that's going to happen.
2. He becomes my top suspect.

I never said I would jump on his bandwagon if he's getting close to lynch. I also didn't say that a bandwagon against anyone else has to form, I said that I would only switch my vote to Socrates if he is the only lynch that's going to happen. I'd also like to add to the first possibility for me voting Socrates that I will only choose to vote him if it gets close to the deadline. Yes, I'm willing to keep my vote on Midnight's Sorrow until that time.

I'm wondering why SSBF is still pushing for MS or myself, where we have a much better chance evidence wise of getting scum by lynching Socrates.

I personally find Midnight's Sorrow and you scummier then Socrates. Yes SGRaaize/Socrates has commited some scum tells, but the only evidence that everyone generally agree upon is that nhammen might have roleblocked Socrates. You and Midnight's Sorrow have commited more scum tells then SGRaaize/Socrates.

NOPE!

I don't like this response to foilist13's question. You didn't even explain why you found him scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Two more, please. Then I promise I'll scumhunt tomorrow.

I know that you think you've caught obvious scum, but that does not excuse you from contributing in this game. I don't like how you're trying to make excuses for not really contributing Day 3. If Socrates gets lynched and flips town, I'll be looking harshly at you Day 4.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Socrates: Why not at least claim?

Here's a little experiment: Raise your hand if you think Pom is town.

The only way you can even hope to gain any accurate result out of that experiment is if Pomegranate were to flip scum. If she were to flip town, then you would have wasted your time on your little "experiment".

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'd like someone to outline the case on Unsight. So far, I do not see a solid case on him and I'd like to be proven otherwise.

It should be obvious that I am just a townie.

How is it obvious? You haven't even claimed yet, plus most people are gearing for your lynch in some way or form. Additionally, you are one of my scum reads.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: Try getting Goatrevolt in the game. He sign-up as a replacement after all.

I'm tired of Lowell not doing anything in this game. He has no excuse to deliberately not contribute to the game in Day 3. He needs to realize that there are other scums in here.

Considering I was the one who got the Socrates train going

That point isn't going to help you much now, especially since you are no longer voting Socrates. I won't award town points to starting a bandwagon and leaving it when it still has a lot of heat, but then using it as a defense.

All right, my suspects:
Midnight's Sorrow (My top suspect)
Socrates
Lowell
Dr. Robotnik
Parama
CryMeARiver

If people want me to explain my suspicion on them, tell me and I will be glad to do so.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Yo SSBF, gonna be a hypocrite(Cause I can ) and say you arn't really doing all that much contributing this DP either~ Stop accusing people of something when your doing the exact same thing please~

Let me just say this. That accustion is downright laughable. There has been people who have contributed less then me (Socrates and Lowell are two examples of this) ToDay. Plus if you consider Day 1 and Day 2, I have done so much it's not even funny. I certainly didn't make fluff posts after fluff posts like you did.

mother of god 80 pages
may I have a summary?

If I were to explain it, it would take hours upon hours of re-reading the thread, possibly even days. I think it's best that you try to read the entire thread by yourself, you'll make a lot better post that way.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Yo SSBF Read the post again and tell me if its still laughable ;P

A couple good posts isn't going to completely make up for all the scummiess that you have commited. You're going to have to do more then just that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Do it.

Midnight's Sorrow

: This guy. The fact that he has over 200 posts does not indicate a town read obviously. The vast majority of his post has been fluff after fluff after fluff. When called upon by Leafsnail and recived pressure on Day 2, Midnight's Sorrow did pretty badly under pressure. His responses were very poorly formed and sound absoutely ignorant to any criticism. I absolutely

fail

to see why I am scummy by his perspective, especially since I have done a lot more then he has overall and I have less then 150 posts overall. I'm actually surprised a large bandwagon hasn't stayed stable on him because he is deserving of it. People seriously need to take a second look at his ISO. I will be extremely disappointed if he isn't dead by Day 5. Yes, this is just a summary of him.

SGRaaize/Socrates

: Obviously, there are strong evidence indicating that the slot is scum. I don't take it as proof, but it is something to note. SGRaaize claims to be defensive, but didn't really defend himself well. He emphazied way too much on quotes that made his posts longer then necessary. Socrates Day 2 play wasn't bad, but the quality of his play took a dive Day 3. He didn't defend himself very well and actually gave up, which is very annoying and anti-townie. Saying that "he might be town" gives him some scum points and I also didn't like how he declared himself to be an obvious townie when his behavior exhibits the opposite.

Lowell

: If anyone is an active lurker, it's Lowell. Most of his posts doesn't have the satisfactory amount of contributations in it, only once in a blue moon will we see them. His admitted refusal to contribute under any circumstances is definently noted and I'm surprise not that many more people actually catch on to it. I'm keeping him under close watch and I suggest people do as well.

Dr. Robotnik

: Also guilty of active lurking. His defense against Nachomamma8's case is poor at best, scummy at worst. Here he called me suspicious:

I do find it suspicious that SSBF says he finds four people scummy, including Socrates, but won't vote for him unless A) He's close to being lynched (Which he is) or B) A bandwagon against anyone else doesn't form (Unsight has a little one, but Socrates still dwarves that one). I'm wondering why SSBF is still pushing for MS or myself, where we have a much better chance evidence wise of getting scum by lynching Socrates.

When I made a rebuttal to that comment, he immediately stopped. No further pressure pushed onto me. Combine that with Nachomamma8's case and you have a very scummy player.

Parama

: My suspicion on Parama never really went away. Sure he has made some good points, and thus, I have yet to vote him again, but he isn't entirely clear. I agree with other people in where I despise that he declares a person scummy beyond any doubt and then lose focus on them. The majority of my original case on Parama still stands. He's not as scummy as other people here, but he is still worth mentioning.

askbob/CryMeARiver/furcolow

: Another slot that is pretty scummy. askbob played pretty badly Day 2 before replacing out and looking back, his Day 1 play wasn't the greatest either. Like Dr. Robotnik, he put an unecessary amount of focus on regarding discussions of masons. I agree that he put too much focus on lurker hunting. CryMeARiver did

absolutely nothing

contributive in this game. He promised contents, but didn't deliever on them. We'll see about furcolow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Lowell, I'm getting really frustrated with your lack of contributations here. You have done next to zero in terms of pushing Socrates lynch ToDay, with most of your attacks Day 3 being "He's obvious scum, I will contribute Tommorow". If he is such an obvious scum, why not help push his wagon a little and I don't know, put some effort toward getting him lynched? If Socrates gets lynched ToDay and flips town, I am for sure going to consider either voting you or Midnight's Sorrow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Midnight's Sorrow: I recently made a summerized version of your case. I also said that I would support your bandwagon and I've already mentioned more then a few times that I want you dead, not to mention scummier then Socrates, the probable lynch ToDay. I am almost confident that you are a scumbag and will most definently be voting either you or Lowell if Socrates flipped town. Certainly more then Lowell is doing with his "obvious scum" candidate.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: I'm going to be honest with you. We should have lynched Midnight's Sorrow or Lowell yesterday instead of Socrates. I am absolutely confident that either Midnight's Sorrow or Lowell is scum, possibly two of them are scums. I say let's go after Midnight's Sorrow ToDay. We will gain more out of his flip then Lowell.

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Nachomamma8 (#2112): What if ToDay is actually LyLo/MyLo and if we receive a mislynch ToDay, we lose? Then you won't be able to go further into your reason for your theory.

foilist13, you are at L-1. Please claim your role. However..

I have a really bad feeling that foilist13 is going to end up as a mislynch. I have a null, leaning slightly town read on the person. We haven't even receive thoughts from everyone yet (Unsight hasn't posted ToDay). Let's not lynch until everyone gets to make at least one serious post ToDay, we have to remember that we are in a potential MyLo/LyLo situation. One more mislynch could result in a scum win.

I am not scum, in fact, I am one of the only people trying to scumhunt at all.

*facepalm*

What productive thing have you done? Do not tell us what your predecessor did, tell US what you yourself have done. Almost everyone else has been more productive then you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You didn't even claim.

Why would you self-hammer? It is possible that it may have just costed the town the game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm not sure how no kills during the Night happened. I think one of them was due to the second doctor save, but the other, I'm not sure, especially since nhammen, our town role blocker, is dead.

@RichardGHP (Post #2162): Or maybe you could read the damn game and decide what to do. I will not be answering those questions for you, if you seriously want those answer, read the game. I do not care how long it is, there's a ton of valueable information in the game, definently more then you would get out of those questions. Also, I dislike how you said you would blatantly bandwagon on the person most likely being lynched. If you're going to follow the crowd, at least be sure that it's your top suspect and within good reasons of your own.

HoS: RichardGHP

Your predecessor was scummy, but #2162 was just awful.

My top three suspects:

3rd: RichardGHP
2nd: Midnight's Sorrow
1st: Lowell

These three people are seriously scummy as hell, but the worst-case is Lowell. He has active lurked throughout the entire game and did pratically nothing to help scum hunt during Day 3 and YesterDay. This guy needs to die. No seriously,

Vote: Lowell

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Midnight's Sorrow: The Day ends in a mod-kill if the person is town. If the person flips scum, the day continues. If Unsight's claim is true, the day ends.

SSBF: Maybe you should refrain from sitting on it, and answer the damn questions. Reading the game is, in short, not an option. Therefore, your point is invalid.
Having said that, answer the questions.

You are not going to gain nearly as much information from those questions as you would actually reading the page. Yes it's ninty pages long, but prehaps you could bring something new to the table and make yourself I dont know, actually look like you're contributing! Also, I am not your slave. Other people have not answered your questions, are they scum for it?

Vote: SSBF
For criticising me for an entire post and voting for someone else. That's more horrible than anything I've posted in this game.

That OMGUS vote you've made at the time was just downright halirious. Haven't you taken into consideration of Dr. Robotnik, who has been very scummy this game? You are making the situation worse. I have every right to call a post scummy, as long as I am pushing an even scummier person lynch.

For the record, you guys can ignore the questions if you wish, but I will not tolerate you blatantly denying me my right to the information I have requested.

The information you request can be better obtained by reading the entire thread, no matter how long it is.

vote unsight, fine by me.

Way to completely and obvious bandwagon on a person without giving any sort of information. You promised that you would start scum hunting Yesterday, yet you have done none of this Day 4 and ToDay. So tell me, why is Unsight suspicious? Use your own reasoning.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

vezokpiraka, the death of your monks and masons have confirmed you as town as realistically as possible. Please for our sake us, help the town. We need everyone who is a townie here.

Town:
vezokpiraka
Tubby216

vezokpiraka is litterally confirmed townie. Tubby216 is likely townie as well.

Scums:
Lowell
Midnight's Sorrow
RichardGHP
Ythan
??? {Either Dry-fit, Parama, Nachomamma8, Pomegranate, Nikanor, or AGar}

The first four people I have mentioned have commited numerous scummy actions and needs to die. The fifth scum I really don't know who fits best. If I had to take a stab, I'd say Parama, but I'm not completely sold that he's scum (Then again, so is everyone else on the bracket). Either way, one of Lowell, Midnight's Sorrow, RichardGHP, or Ythan needs lynching ToDay.

Vote: Lowell

HoS: Midnight's Sorrow, RichardGHP, Ythan

@Everyone: Who do you think are the remaining five scums?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Ythan: I will re-cap my case on Lowell.

Lowell scumminess is off the wall. I am disappointed that he hasn't been lynched yet, especially since he is the best lynch for ToDay. Let's begin.

First off, he is the absolute worst case of active lurking. Out of everyone here, he has produced the least amount of contents in this game and shows a lack of motivation to actually participate, especially as of late. That's just the iccing, thought.

ISO: 3 and ISO: 4 are major contradictions of each other. In ISO: 3, he express dislike of my bandwagon. Then in ISO: 4, he basically said look at how hard I was trying, but I was still going to be lynched. Him saying he's basically unlynchable while not doing nearly as much set bells ringing as well.

He's done a ton of bandwagoning without good reasons. First example is ISO: 11 where he votes nhammen, litterally saying "good enough for me." Absolutely hated this. Others moments include:

ISO: 35: Votes Shrinehme because he thinks a Socrates lynch wasn't going to happen Day 2. This is ridiculous, we had plenty of time before the deadline to decide on a lynch, so I don't see why he should have voted shrinehme in the first place.

ISO: 50:Votes foilist13 because he agrees with other people. Doesn't bother to give his own explanation on why he voted for foilist13. Since foilist13 flipped scum, I assume he was trying to gain town cred with very little effort put into it.

ISO: 53: Votes Unsight for the same reason. This is worse then the foilist13's vote because Unsight flipped town. The vote for Unsight really does sound like it's out of the blue. Let's get to Lowell's other scum tells:

ISO: 15 gives me scum vibes. He said since nhammen wasn't being lynched, he switched his vote to sevis so he could be early. Is he trying to avoid suspicion? Sounds like it from this post.

ISO: 30 is another noticeable contradiction. Look at #1497 in where I explain why the contradiction is scummy.

Let's look at Lowell's push for Socrates's lynch. Day 3, all he basically said why "Let's lynch this guy!". He puts almost no effort toward trying to get him lynched, he basically let other people do the work for him. And this is coming from someone who thought Socrates was obvious scum. What little work he put into the Socrates's lynch Day 3 didn't pay off, Socrates was town. Therefore, he basically wasted an entire day that he could have used to look for other scums or at least try to further convince people that Socrates was scum.

I don't like how Lowell deliberately put off making contents in ISO: 41, where he said he will not scum hunt until tommorow. Just because you think a person is obvious scum does not mean you can't be wrong and it definently doesn't excuse you from not scum hunting. Socrates gets lynched. You'd think Lowell would come through with his promise. But he didn't. All he did Day 4 and Day 5 was basically vote for the biggest bandwagon, which is downright scummy.

I'd also like people to note that Lowell has also put near-zero effort toward defending himself. When criticism is brought against them, he either ignores it or make a face-palm worthy post.

This guy is scum and I have absolutely no doubt about it. This is the perfect example of what a scum is. He doesn't try, he's scummy as hell, he has active lurked throughout the entire game, and I'm absolutely shocked that people have basically ignored him throughout most of the game.

This isn't just a post for Ythan, this is a post that is outright stating this:

I want this guy dead and I want him dead as soon as possible.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Poll: Who would you say has done more this game- Pom, Lowell, or Dry-Fit?

•Pom
•Lowell
•Dry-Fit

My personal answer would be you. However, don't get all excited yet. Your amount of contributation isn't exactly something I'd write home about and you have done considerably less then other people (Parama is a very good example). Even then, the amount of contributation does not make you immortal or perfect, as you can still commit scum tells.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Just want to say that I'm not ready to lynch yet. We have not received inputs from everyone yet (RichardGHP and Parama haven't spoked ToDay) and given that Parama is V/LA until July 24th, 2010, we should give Parama and RichardGHP at least one chance to produce contents before lynching anyone. Beside, there's no need to rush as we have plenty of time left.

---

@SSBF- one could make a living on this site just by pointing out my "obvscum"-ness. don't bother, no one will ever believe you.

That doesn't prevent me from putting forth effort into getting you lynched and trying to convince people that you are the most likely scum out of everyone here. Funny part is that you were slightly better Day 1, but gotten worse and worse as the game dragged on.

We should be hunting for Werewolves today. Bringing the scum down to even numbers will hopefully put pressure on them to cross-kill, which is what we really need right now, especially if the scum started with four members each.

I highly doubt we have four-man scum teams for both alignments. If we did, town would have lost already. I'm assuming we have three Werewolves and two Mafia's left. If we had four Werewolves and three Mafia's left, that means there would be seven scums to six townies and the Werewolves would have already won. Since the game is still going, I'm assuming we have eight townies and five scums left.

And I don't disagree to finding Werewolves, as they are a threat to town, but we still need to be concerned about the Mafia. If we hit Mafia ToDay, we'll have three Werewolves, but only one Mafia left. If we have a scum crosskill, that will wipe out the scum faction and leaves the town with only two Werewolves. Prehaps it decreases the cross scum-kill possibility, but it's not impossible. Whereas killing a Werewolf and having a scum cross-kill will leave us with one Mafia and one Werewolf.

The advantage of hitting Mafia ToDay and having a scum-crosskill of both scum alignments is that we are only left with one scum alignment and only one scum Night Kill to worry about. A Werewolf lynch and a scum-crosskill will still leave us with two scum factions to worry about.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Mmm. The offensive insults. I've seen this somewhere before...

Anyways, someone hammer Pom. We caught another mafia, that's a successful day in my books.

Parama kind of did that already.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Anybody up for a Ythan Vs. Midnight's Sorrow argument during Twilight? I'll bring popcorns.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Ythan: You might want to look at the cases formed at people who were in your slot (askbob, CryMeARiver, and furcolow) and go from there.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Town, you can win this game for us. Don't let us down.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I really did enjoy playing this game with you all. Really, this is probably the most entertaining Mafia game I've ever played and maybe someday, I'll take a re-read on this game on.

I personally was really surprised by how well I've played this game. Due to my behavior confirmation stage, at the time, I was expecting myself to be one of the major lynch candidates Day 1 and I would have to fight hard to get out of it (And I would have probably failed), especially since I was a Vanilla Townie (No disrespect to the role).

Surprisingly enough, most of the suspicion fade away. What felt great was that I wasn't a major lynch candidate for most of the game, an accomplish that I rarely managed to handle before.

But to be honest, I learn something that I never thought would learn in Mafia: Don't play the game to see how long you can avoid being lynched, play the game to get rid of scums. This is an important lesson that I feel will influence me on future Mafia games and I will make sure to apply it to them.

The fact that I did so much to the town, I knew I was a threat to the scums and it was a matter of time of not when I would get lynched, but when I would get Night Killed. I was surprised it didn't happen sooner, especially Night Three when foilist13 said I was an OK NK (I think he said I was). But it's good to be a threat to scum because you need to get rid of them.

Probably my worst mistake here in this game was doubling up with SerialClergyman in the "Let's form a town alliance!" plan. I should had known that he had scum intentions there and should have immediately distance from him. Another bad mistake was not persuding my first top scum read Parama. Had I not gotten vezokpiraka in the way at the time, I probably still would have pushed for a Parama's lynch Day 1 and prehaps he would have been lynched. But oh well, both SerialClergyman/Parama did great and I was fooled by them, not to mentioned was surprised that SerialClergyman/tubby216 fliped scum.

The playerlist was pretty good and some of the replacements were great as well. Players that I really enjoyed playing with are the folllowing:
Vi
Seraphim
SpyreX
Parama
Nachomamma8
Unsight
foilist13
Pomegranate
Ythan
SerialClergyman
tubby216
LynchMePls
nhammen
Leafsnail
Nikanor
Battle Mage
Faraday
Socrates

No biasness toward other people, thought.

Town did surprisingly well in this game. The fact that they managed to catch four scums in an unlikely win situation proves that they didn't always BS around, plus we had some strong players.

Probably the biggest problem with the town was the bandwagoning issue Day 1 and to a lesser extend, Day 2. Granted, bandwagons are great, but I felt we went through way too many of them and cause not only confusion, but lose of interest in the game. We need to be more solid with opinion before voting someone to lynch.

I would like to thank the mod for mostly solid flavor. It was enjoyable to read and I never skimmed any of it. Modding during the day was great and the fact he was so vigilant in finding replacements shows that he was determind to prevent mod-kill based off anyone.

I was pretty angry that Unsight got himself mod-killed, thought. By Day 5, he was one of my very few town reads and I would be really uncomfortable over his mod-kill, especially since he did play well.

Overall, I feel that I came off better then I did when starting the game. Hopefully I will continue to learn and become a solid player here. Because I love Mafia and Mafia is game of logic, something that I like as well.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Don't worry, I don't dislike anyone here at all.