Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[Ika Musume]

vote: Varsoon

[Ika Musume]

i don't find parabola's posts scummy. or Ranger's, for that matter.

vote: GM

free town points to anyone who can guess why i made this vote. bonus points for being first.

[Ika Musume]

Why are you asking for people to "guess why i made this vote", Ika? Why not say why instead of hiding your reasons that way?

reasons

[Ika Musume]

p-edit: yup, definitely a reaction test then

boorrrinngggg

fyi i have a serious reason for voting, but it's an ultra weak one.

why do you find parabola's posts scummy?

[Ika Musume]

hi ppl what have i missed?

[Ika Musume]

hi ppl what have i missed?

jpg

YOU GOT TO BE SQUIDDING ME! I CANT POST BULLSHIT?

Well this is jsut Squidtasitc.

[Ika Musume]

While I'm at it, Ika needs to give some solid reasoning for her vote on goodmorning before I start getting suspicious.

if you are refering to me (ika the player) im a he. if you are refering to pie, then you got it right.

pie was the one who placed the vote and i knwo the reaosning but i feel no obligations to explain it

[Ika Musume]

hi ppl what have i missed?

You missed a great party, everyone was wasted.

good times were had by all.
Please tell me Ika you will post more content posts than this game, right?

-Firebringer

It depends, if you arent going to identify yourself i will have very little to give you. i want you to be a better player but when you start assoicating with players who have a rep of being a negavie i will just treat you as scuh

[Ika Musume]

1)I will identify myself in this game. I will say that sometimes I don't like your playstyle and get frustrated by you just as much as I can get frustrated by Hermits playstyle.

2)Their are different playstyles though and I try to respect them all because their is no 1 way to play the game. No perfect way to win, no X is only way to win. I have less respect for players who don't play and lurk because I don't think its playstyle, I think its a lack of playstyle.

3)Just because someone has a negative rep, doesn't mean they deserve it.

-Firebringer

4) BTW I don't want a huge discussion on this, lets both go back to scumhunting.

1) good, thats all i need form you. As for playstyles you should acutly realize if your an abraisve player my play is very much a mirror of you then and that youa re staign you dislike your own playstyle. The diffrence with my abrasivness and yours is that people here do understand my stance toward a lot of things and i dont demaner them to a point its unenjoyable.

2) if you are saying my plystyle it to be lurk you are sorely mistaken i have already said thes more akine to my scum side then my town side. All players have their own definition of "lurk" and that how i play i would disagree on me lurking. There are some playstles thought that are jsut bad in general.

3) actualy with how this site is, it very much is deserved based on how he has been playing and how he plays. hes just a blaitent anti-town player who doesnt give a regard for anyone but himself. other have tried to help him but he thinks hes fine with how he can be confirmed town, lukr and be prodded and do nothign. his playstle is exactly what you describe you hate

4) i dont want it to be huge either but i do want this dicussion so you know where i stand

[Ika Musume]

hi varsoon!

[Ika Musume]

you should l-1 it so i can hammer

[Ika Musume]

pie head here. my major priority game-wise just ended and i'm free tomorrow, so i should be able to

catch up

take over the world then.

[Ika Musume]

on this page alone, i see someone arguing scum wouldn't hard defend each other d1 in a game of this size. to that, i have to say:

Spoiler:

[Ika Musume]

It occurs to me that ika's kinda playing to his Scum meta atm.

Kinda? I'm 100% doing ym scum meta intentionaly i was waiting for ppl to realzie it.

Hi gm how ar eyou

[Ika Musume]

ok im here

[Ika Musume]

whos here im gonna force myself to play now even though i have very little

[Ika Musume]

im also fine with being runned up for a cliam

[Ika Musume]

fire.......

are you going to interact with me?

[Ika Musume]

or am i gonna wait for nightfall do shit

[Ika Musume]

ok my eyes glossed trying to triple iso................

im gonna go on gut calls right now for this soooooo

town
would lynch
town
need to iso

[Ika Musume]

VOTE: Trivium

Im here though, i already knwo scums wont nk me either cus they will think im myslnchable

[Ika Musume]

dont disagree about another pr but disagree on the setup your speccing right now

[Ika Musume]

that being said, the idea thta they left you alive fire is bad all around, its prob cus your not voal and jsut wrong

[Ika Musume]

well i know your wrong varsoon cus we are the last PR in the setup right now.

i got work but i will come back tonight, feel free to speculate on wha i am

[Ika Musume]

your running under the assumption we have no B to begin with

[Ika Musume]

hey varsoon remmeber how you dislike POE, did you knwo what your doing right now is a way of POE?

[Ika Musume]

I sometimes do what Varsoon is doing as scum.

dont care be in you fuckign hdyra

[Ika Musume]

sorry when im mobile i cant switch as easy due to passwords

anyways im not inherntly opposed to it right now. the only thing is that it basicly makes a roadmap of kills

[Ika Musume]

us and anyone else who hasnt.

i mena its obvious what we are by now though

[Ika Musume]

i will say we targeted marka

[Ika Musume]

pie is reading up

[Ika Musume]

Duppin, claim.

Everyone should be claiming.
Seriously, I am being ignored and its making me angry.

-Fire

You realize here most ICs are ignored. I mean if it was just you in the game i would chat but i donot deal wiht your partner scince he seems to be seteering it all

[Ika Musume]

im waiting on pie

[Ika Musume]

ill talkt o pie tonight.

also if anyone take at least 5 fuckign seconds to iso me and read the talk i had with varsoon it should be apparent what i am claiming

i dont answer to you saint

[Ika Musume]

so many people need to die this game.

I (pieguyn) am fully caught up but I'm still half-delirious from power reading the game. first order of business: I find Brunneis to be incredibly, incredibly town and the only thing that would make me question it is ika disagreeing on it (we should have this sorted out when he gets off work or tomorrow if I'm asleep by then). my next two town reads are on Errant and makara/Persivul, but these are such weak reads I don't put any faith whatsoever in them at this juncture. that, plus not having had a chance to sync with ika yet, means I'm thinking the best approach for this situation is to play a round of question danmaku.

Errant, I like and agree with your recent point on Ranger, but I'm weirded out by the fact you haven't done anything outside of that this game day (and the fact you've been on V/LA hasn't had anything to do with this - my point here is when you *have* been here you still haven't given much in terms of outside reads). when you come back I'd like your reads on everyone in the room. just a tl;dr version is fine, we can work from there.

Persivul, I don't like your recent posts based around pushing Brunneis over having 3/4 town in their scum reads. what makes it coming from scum as opposed to misguided town? that said, I'm giving you a bit of leeway bc I'm assuming you haven't read everything yet, so I'd like if you could read the game, ISO Brunneis, etc. and give me updated reads based on actual play.

Maxwell, I think some of your recent posts have looked kinda town, but I strongly dislike your D1 play, namely the way you were perpetuating the Trivium/Brunneis shitfight that was going on. did you not have any other major scum reads? if I missed one, link please.

duppin, where the fuck are you?

Gray, you've done basically nothing but pdodge this entire fucking game, and I sure as hell don't remember you doing this in EOSD. why (538) do you think scum would necessarily have pushed a Brunneis lynch through if they were town when leaving them alive and lynching them later is a perfectly viable course of action (hell, you saw me/bork chain 3 mislynches in EOSD), and why do you not think this is what's happening on this game day? do you have any reads elsewhere? again, tl;dr version is fine, we can work from there.

Ranger, there is a lot I dislike about your posts, but the blaringly obvious thing is that you were pushing Errant was scum due to the L-1 wagon on her when _it was an RVS wagon_. someone being at L-1 means jack shit in RVS when random flashwagons can happen just for the sake of it, and objectively speaking, this should be common sense. you also pushed this, while mostly flat-out ignoring most of what happened elsewhere in the game. I also pretty strongly disagree with your recent read on Brunneis (which came after a sizable wagon on Brunneis had developed and I'm pretty sure you refused to elaborate on it when asked?) so I'd like if you could walk me through (or point if I missed it) what you're seeing there in more detail. I have more and this will come when I'm not half lucid, but I'm starting here.

if it's not obvious, lack of a vig claim means Varsoon is confirmed town, and thus if there's a vig trying to remain hidden for <insert shit reason here> they need to claim right the fuck now or be policy lynched.

[Ika Musume]

also, as I'm caught up, I should be active in this game from here on until I invariably get killed for being the only person here. the level of lurking in this game is unacceptable (I'm aware I've contributed to it, but NO MORE ~).

[Ika Musume]

the setup is MCDBTTT, which means scum have 2 goons and a roleblocker, and a SK.

both Varsoon and me should be confirmed since either of us lying means an extra T, and thus no double kill in the setup.

[Ika Musume]

Varsoon, if you ignore Brunneis, who do you think is scum?

[Ika Musume]

In fact, I actually think this is Maxwell's scum-game, but I'm not a great authority there.

is his day 1 play re: Trivium/Brunneis factoring into this? that was what stood out the most on my readthrough of the game.

[Ika Musume]

also I'm gonna preemptively state I haven't synced with ika yet so I likely won't place a vote at the current point in time. with any luck we should be able to sit down and discuss stuff tomorrow.

[Ika Musume]

let's see if I can post

[Ika Musume]

My scumread on Brunneis came even before The Fire Hermit's. Note my 91. Fire Hermit actually asked me why I was scumreading Brunneis. So no, my scumread on Brunneis did not come after a sizable wagon had formed; I was the first one to hold it the entire game and it has not faded. You're right that I haven't elaborated, but mostly that's laziness. I feel no need to explain myself, so...I don't.

It's a bad habit that I should break, Brunneis is no longer my preferred lynch, and since someone that's pretty much guaranteed to be town is asking (rather than the person in question themselves, Brunneis), I've got some motivation to try, so I'll see what I can do to break it at some point. Not right now, but in the near future. (Don't hold me to a date.)

even if you supposedly had a scum read at that point, you did literally nothing to push it. I'm looking through it again and you did actually nothing to explain said read or try to pressure them throughout the entire D1. so no, that doesn't really count as a "scum read".

I also really strongly disagree with your mentality of "a lot of people in this game have you as a scum read, so you're getting lynched today". I think scum are significantly more likely to say things like that than town are. the town approach in that kind of situation would have been to try and convince other people to vote along with you in some way, either by laying out actual reasons for Brunneis being scum or even something along the lines of "will you wagon Brunneis with me"/"what is your read on Brunneis" if you don't want to elaborate on it. but you didn't do this, you basically said Brunneis was getting lynched because a lot of people were scum reading him. I tend to make appeals like that when I'm scum when I'm looking for an easy way to push a consensus read in a way where no one will question it.

this is all more so the case when Brunneis only has like 3 votes - wagons can easily rise/fall in this time. it was no way set in stone Brunneis is the lynch and you were claiming it was.

I don't think you really care about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through here. what I'm seeing here is you jumping on the Brunneis wagon when it gained momentum and backing off when it stopped.

[Ika Musume]

duppin, I want your reads on everyone in the game. doesn't matter if you have strong reads or not, just give reads on _everyone_.

you've hardly taken any stances at all this game, and you being inactive has nothing to do with that

[Ika Musume]

I really can't see how you could possibly reach this conclusion.

I'll get to this this evening btw.

[Ika Musume]

PEDIT: Varsoon, I get that you're annoyed, but please keep posting.

I agree though, massclaim is our best option. I'm not seeing a reason to think that Varsoon is scum, this setup (open setups in general) make fakeclaiming dangerous, and asking for a mass claim on top of that would be over the top.

I'd suggest we do a methodical mass claim lead by the IC, but considering activity in this game it would reeaallyyy drag things out, and I think damage the atmosphere further.

I'm a VT.

No, I think you DO have a reason to be less vague, Ranger. And: I don't like this 'I'll prove I won't vote you at L-1." Who are you trying to prove this to, exactly? Brunneis is the one accusing you, yet you're saying you'll prove it to them. Why do you feel the need to prove yourself to scum? (You're very confident about them being scum)

I don't like your recent exchanges with Brunneis. I feel like you're trying to prove you're not dismissing them by interacting, but all I'm seeing is a weird conversation between you two that is just a series of 'no, you're interpreting this thing wrong' from both sides.

UNVOTE:

Who still needs to claim? Let's finish this up.

Oh, and Duppin: Whether or not you found Brunneis scummy was not obvious, which is why I had to ask.

^ I like all of these posts. free town points to the first person who sees what I'm seeing here.

[Ika Musume]

I wasn't going to say anything, but GrayFox has been one of my strong candidates for being the serial killer. I don't think he's part of a scumteam, but I also did get a not-town vibe from him.

why do you say he's not part of a scum team? tbh, if I consider him being scum, I would say if he was SK he'd be likely to be doing more legitimate scum hunting than he's doing here.

the way he's lurkfucking the hell out of the game makes me think he's mafia having trouble fabricating viable content, not an SK who'd be more than able to.

[Ika Musume]

vote: duppin

[Ika Musume]

Alright I'm back.

My initial read was actually Trivium and Brunneis as scum partners. That is why I asked Trivium what he thought about them, but based on what has happened now I'd say that is unlikely.
I do however still believe there is a scum between the two of them, just not entirely sure I believe it is Brunneis.

Kling please convince me you guys aren't scum.

what made you think Trivium and Brunneis were scum partners here, and what specifically made you think there was scum in one of them afterward (rather than having individual reads on the two of them and going from there)?

[Ika Musume]

I disagree with Trivium's arguments against Brunneis, and it makes me pause. It's hard to explain, but Trivium is saying that Brunneis should be trying to advance the game, instead of trying to 'look town'? Usually when scum want to look town, they try to ask questions, share reads, etc. Or, well.. Basically I don't like Trivium's case, and it makes me second-guess myself on Brunneis. Like, accusing then of trying to look town while also saying that they should be doing more to advance the game... There's no other way to look town without doing the latter, is there?

I don't get this. How exactly does Trivium using flawed reasoning to push Brunneis make Brunneis less scummy?

this was a good observation that mirrored what I thought at the time - my impression of Maxwell's 253 when I read it, as you can probably guess based on what I said last night, was that the focus on Trivium vs. Brunneis for this argument was entirely unnatural. the reasoning there was incorrect: Trivium posting a poor argument about Brunneis has nothing to do with Brunneis' alignment. I could potentially see it coming from scum, but I think it makes a lot of sense as town who's worried that the entire D1 shitfight is all-town and attempting to scum hunt those surrounding it.

Here's where I'm at. I think Ika is probably scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ika

pie head here. my major priority game-wise just ended and i'm free tomorrow, so i should be able to

catch up

take over the world then.

promises to catch up and then posts like 3 fluff posts since then

It occurs to me that ika's kinda playing to his Scum meta atm.

Kinda? I'm 100% doing ym scum meta intentionaly i was waiting for ppl to realzie it.

Hi gm how ar eyou

this is such a shitty defense I can't even


If I had to choose between Brunneis and Trivium I would say that Trivium is more likely to be scum based on his awful defense. However, I think it's pretty scummy to make today's lynch a choice between these two players.

I didn't mind the case on me, tbh. if I saw a player basically lurkfucking the whole game when I thought the major focus was on town, I would point it out immediately, as ... I and other people are ... currently doing with people like duppin.

now, up to this point, I will admit that the sheer lack of any sort of push in makara's ISO makes me feel like all of this is irrelevant to anything because he didn't do anything to push it: it's fairly easy to take stances if you don't do anything to convince other people of them, build wagons on your scum reads, derail wagons on your town reads, or so forth. but this could as easily be explained by him being inactive in general, and if I think if he was scum, he would have been less likely to go about it in such a natural way (pointing out things that would have been less relevant to anything than his observation re: Maxwell), so I don't really mind it.

I'm still not scumreading Brunneis. I feel that most of what Brunneis is posting is town motivated.

My current scumreads are errant, ranger and a scumlean on greyfox. I'd like to see more content from duppin though.

I wouldn't be opposed to a massclaim and agree with Varsoons reasoning for it, although I'm not really good at setup reasoning.

I liked this reads list, in a position where I feel Brunneis is likely to be the scum-designated mislynch.

OK, per doc there's a roleblocker, so we have at most 4 Ts, i.e. at least 3 letters.

I thought Persivul making a beeline towards the setup as the first thing he did to get reads in the game looked town. it's relatively fakeable, but if I was looking at the game from the outside and wanted to get reads, it's the first thing I would have looked at, too (it's tempting to try and break shit so you can be lazy and not read anything).

Yeah, that'll teach me for trying to liven up a dull game.

Later...

this basically sums why I didn't mind Persivul's entrance. in a gamestate like this, I think someone walking in and trying to generate content and reduce apathy is, on the surface, a town trait - there is a nonzero chance scum would prefer to not put too much effort into doing shit and instead just sit back and let stuff happen, especially if the major wagon is on town. I would obviously expect to see it coming from scum if they were hoping to do something like gaining town credit by coming in and "shaking things up" or making a town-looking entrance, or scum hoping to take control of an apathetic game by posting a lot and hoping people follow them without actually thinking through it. the thing is, Persivul's "reads" were a troll vote on my slot and Brunneis being scum because of what all the conftowns did, which isn't what I'd expect from scum attempting to do any of this (it won't convince anyone and would probably only serve to piss people off, which, surprise, is what happened).

in other words, in either case, there's less direction here than I would expect from a scum player replacing into this situation. I can, on the other hand, see it coming from town attempting to generate content out of a game where they don't know what the hell they should be looking at.

Note that it's also based on a number of conftown voting him (seemed to be the only trend in their votes other than the actual D1 lynch), and especially that gm was on him before she died. I have high respect for her reads, and not much has happened in D2 to change things.

I'm responding to this while I'm here. having a bunch of conftown voting you is the same sort of thing as you voting a bunch of people who wind up being town: it doesn't mean shit unless you have reason to believe they're all not just misguided (and this is part of why I disliked this angle, it's in similar vein to why I dislike Ranger's angle Brunneis is getting lynched bc a lot of people are reading them as scum).

on the other hand, I do think this sort of POV kinda fits with what I pointed out earlier about him focusing on the setup, but I might be reading too much into it.

Post link to the soft claim please.

I would like duppin to respond to this (and in turn to know where Persivul was going with this).

[Ika Musume]

unvote:

I would like thoughts on the above post, I'm going to go through Brunneis at some point but they have a lot more posts so I wanted to get this out of the way first. I'll be back probably this afternoon (or if not, this evening).

[Ika Musume]

unvote:

I would like thoughts on the above post, I'm going to go through Brunneis at some point but they have a lot more posts so I wanted to get this out of the way first. I'll be back probably this afternoon (or if not, this evening).

this is going to have to be tomorrow, unfortunately, I'm tired as fuck rn.

[Ika Musume]

Taly:

1. what didn't you like about Persivul's entrance?

2. I'm conftown, so you shouldn't have to worry about forming a read on me.

[Ika Musume]

"brunneis wagon is town led" arguments are ridiculously awful

all town on town wagons are in no way rare, especially in a mini game and _especially_ given Trivium (the counterwagon) was also a town wagon

if this goes through and Brunneis is town, I would probably power lynch my way through anyone pushing that argument

[Ika Musume]

This was the train on Brunneis 12 hours before the deadline day 1.

Brunneis - GrayFoxxxx,

The Fire Hermit

,

Trivium

,

goodmorning

.

That is 3 confirmed town.

if anything, this is more an indicator of grayfoxx being scum than Brunneis being scum, but even then, I wouldn't put any stock in it.

it is scummy as fuck that you're conveniently ignoring the grayfoxx-scum explanation and twisting it as a reason to push the main wagon.

[Ika Musume]

In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

Post link to the soft claim please.

Persivul, where were you going with this?

[Ika Musume]

@Ika: I do agree, when I first saw that post by duppin, I felt that it was a good indicator of GrayFoxxxx scum rather than Brunneis scum.
It's the sort of play I would do as scum to try to levy a lynch on someone outside of my team. If anything, I feel that it's indicative of Duppin/GreyFox scum.

could easily see this. I'll have more to say this afternoon when I have time to actually sit down with the game.

[Ika Musume]

so ika is back time ot read up

[Ika Musume]

i really dont get how people are mistaken me for pie....

also persival is scum

[Ika Musume]

pies not here...

[Ika Musume]

The game cannot reasonably advance if we do not lynch anyone other than Klingon. That slot just HAS to go.

This is ridiculous. I like the duppin wagon better. If duppin is scum, he's more dangerous than brunneis. But brun is looking scummier by the post, and it's apparent that nothing else is going to get done while they're still in the game.

these are incredibly poor arguments. you don't just lynch someone because "the game won't advance if we don't lynch them". that isn't how the game works. *if* this was D1, I potentially wouldn't object to it, but there is a nonzero chance a mislynch today loses the game (3-3-1 is basically impossible to win). so, no.

I'm actually here now and can finally elaborate on why I think Brunneis is town. hopefully I'm not too insanely late that I can't do anything about it. -.-

[Ika Musume]

the first thing I want to point about Brunneis is that I find their frustration for basically the entire game to be incredibly town, and I have no idea how everyone is overlooking this. it's difficult for me to pull up specific posts about this because it's more of a body of work thing, but in short, take a look at their D2 play. their D2 play has consisted of basically antagonizing every single person in the game. look at their reactions to, e.g. grayfoxx and duppin throughout this game day, and look at how they've been reacting to the IC

the next thing is that I'm pretty sure just about everyone in this game has voted them at some point? if they're scum, they're being bussed by somebody, and at this point in the game, I don't feel particularly good about the odds of scum bussing unless the scum team is playing suboptimally (they basically win if they can reach tomorrow with no scum deaths), which is not an assumption I would want to make. in this situation, when they're clearly being pushed by at least one scum, I think it's significantly more reliable to scum hunt in the people pushing the wagon as their pushes will come off at least somewhat disingenuous regardless (scum know that they are correct, but not why they are correct).

Ika Musume - Ika straight-out claims to be playing by his Scum meta. Does that mean he's Scum? If it does, then he's playing against his win condition. Town.

I thought this was pretty hilarious, but I also think town are more likely to push stuff like this and actually believe it than scum are. their behavior towards us throughout the game was consistent with this statement - they were suspicious of us up to this point and then didn't push us at all afterward - . I could see scum pushing it, but I wouldn't expect them to claim it as truth like they're doing here, I would think if scum wanted to push something like this it'd be more of an uncertain thing that they could backpedal on later (scum don't want to outright clear people when they don't need to). I don't think it looked like scum attempting to buddy up to someone or bullshit a read, I think it was them actually believing we were as good as confirmed town for it and acting as such.

I didn't mind the rest of the reads in this post, either, but this is the main one.

I checked the Wiki and posted it - there's a 1 in 4 chance of there being 4 Scum, yet you knew there are 4 Scum in this game.

this post is incredibly misguided, but I think posts like this are more likely to come from town than scum; scum would know what they're pushing here is blatantly wrong and realize it would do them basically no favors with Ranger (the person they were pushing) or anyone else in the game. with Brunneis in the position they're in, as I alluded to in the first paragraph, I think it's more of a town tell than it would otherwise be, since scum-them should be searching for allies here or trying to do ... something ... to derail their lynch.

Cool, while you keep your vote on one person the same person you've had it on for the past 8 pages without responding to that much at all

You then cast suspicion on the person they pushed against.

this was a good thing to point out; in a vacuum pushing someone your scum read is pushing is OK, but grayfoxx's thought process here wasn't the correct one

My reads other then what I quoted to you weren't a direct answer to you. I'm not voicing my thoughts and opinions in accordance to what you want to hear, sorry.

I thought the needless antagonism here looked p town. there are times when deliberately antagonizing someone can be a scum tell (when it's entirely uncalled for), this isn't one of them.

@brunn

Reread the specific post regarding Ranger.

Why wouldn't I keep my vote on you? I think you're scum. I'm not as confident in you being scum recently , because your last few posts look a little better.

But you have alot of pressure on you, so it's kind of forced content.

Ide like to hear back from ranger, as he is the only other person I would be comfortable voting right now.

What the hell?

I've been the top wagon MOST OF THIS GAME. Are you seriously mostly voting me because "apparently everyone is trying to force me to make content"

That's a terrible reason to stay idle on a wagon this long and I can't believe nobody has called you out on it.

And I'm not even the only person you're willing to vote? This reinforces to me that Ranger may actually be a scumbuddy of someone.

Why are you keeping your vote on me this long, and have pushed nobody else - supposedly? Ugh.... I just can't see this as town.

this is actually an excellent point that is something I'm going to look into in more depth now that I'm able to sit down with the game. and no, it's not "desperate" - regardless of alignment, calling out scum reads on your wagon is a fairly standard thing. people who are pushing them as desperate for this should feel bad.

tbh, I find most of what Taly is posting about grayfoxx to make a lot of sense and I don't know why anyone is taking issue with it

Because I seriously do not get the suspicion on duppin. At all. He seems to be posting really, really strongly in a ridiculously-town manner.

He is not posting strongly.

Okay you sniping jerk, let me rephrase that because my normal speech patterns seem to have left an opening for you.
duppin IS posting really, really strongly, no 'seems to be'.

His posting is very, very strongly town.

In some alternate reality maybe.

I'm liking the Duppin vote more now.

this makes a lot of sense to me as a reaction to someone defending someone you're scum reading and I know this because I had the same reaction when reading that Ranger post - when I read it, my first thought was that she was just making it up and that nothing in duppin's posts could have been considered "very strong". I like the way they basically snap-called Ranger on it, it didn't come off like there was some kind of ulterior motive behind it.

+ more needless antagonism that I liked.

Because it looks like you'd rather go on a long-running wagon instead of actually looking at every possibility?

This is just a hella bad picture considering that Gray was the first on my wagon in that, you're excluding the idea of looking at him before actually making a push to vote and lynch me.

Oh, and I've been suspicious to you THIS ENTIE GAME for no stated reason? Cool, now you've almost confirmed to me that you're scum trying to conceal my mislynch. Thanks.

I like (and sympathize with) this post a lot.

[Ika Musume]

well fuck me, that posted when I was only half done with it.

@MOD: can you spoiler that?

[Ika Musume]

TAKE 2: the first thing I want to point about Brunneis is that I find their frustration for basically the entire game to be incredibly town, and I have no idea how everyone is overlooking this. it's difficult for me to pull up specific posts about this because it's more of a body of work thing, but in short, take a look at their D2 play. their D2 play has consisted of basically antagonizing every single person in the game. look at their reactions to, e.g. grayfoxx and duppin throughout this game day (some of which I'm pulling for this post but that's not all of them) - in general, they believe one or both of them are scum and, rather than attempting to deflect the pressure, they're addressing it head-on and escalating it by pushing them as scum to counter it. I think this kind of play, when done to the extent it is here, makes a lot more sense coming from town as opposed to scum - I would expect scum in this position to be a lot more generally agreeable and not so "gung ho push everyone and not give a shit about what people think".

there's also a significant lack of appeals to anyone in the game (the IC being the main one) which is the sort of thing I would expect more from scum in this position - it's not scum attempting to get out of being lynched, it's town hoping to make as much impact on the game as possible hoping people will listen to it after their flip. I could see scum adopting it thinking it was the only real approach they could take, but there's literally fucking nothing there; it would take a particularly confident scum player to double down on it so hard as they would have done here. and, if you look at their interactions with everyone else in the game, there's basically nothing there in terms of appeals, either (hardly any interactions at all in some cases).

the next thing is that I'm pretty sure just about everyone in this game has voted them at some point? if they're scum, they're being bussed by somebody, and at this point in the game, I don't feel particularly good about the odds of scum bussing unless the scum team is playing suboptimally (they basically win if they can reach tomorrow with no scum deaths), which is not an assumption I would want to make. in this situation, when they're clearly being pushed by at least one scum, I think it's significantly more reliable to scum hunt in the people pushing the wagon as their pushes will come off at least somewhat disingenuous regardless (scum know that they are correct, but not why they are correct).

Ika Musume - Ika straight-out claims to be playing by his Scum meta. Does that mean he's Scum? If it does, then he's playing against his win condition. Town.

I thought this was pretty hilarious, but I also think town are more likely to push stuff like this and actually believe it than scum are. their behavior towards us throughout the game was consistent with this statement - they were suspicious of us up to this point and then didn't push us at all afterward - and the point itself at least makes sense coming from someone who has this view of how the rules work (which Klingon confirmed later in 325) even though it's poorly reasoned. I could see scum pushing it, but I wouldn't expect them to claim it as truth like they're doing here, I would think if scum wanted to push something like this it'd be more of an uncertain thing that they could backpedal on later (scum don't want to outright clear people when they don't need to). I don't think it looked like scum attempting to buddy up to someone or bullshit a read, I think it was them actually believing we were as good as confirmed town for it and acting as such.

I didn't mind the rest of the reads in this post, either, but this is the main one.

I'm sorry, but I keep looking at your ISO and not seeing a consistent amount of reasoning against Errant to suggest tunneling.... Which I've yet to see town do.

So could you please explain this bit by bit to me? Why is Errant still the best lynch even after the flips from others we saw previously?

I thought this was a p good point, which if you've read my previous posts this game day you'd know I agree with.

I checked the Wiki and posted it - there's a 1 in 4 chance of there being 4 Scum, yet you knew there are 4 Scum in this game.

this post is incredibly misguided, but I think posts like this are more likely to come from town than scum; scum would know what they're pushing here is blatantly wrong and realize it would do them basically no favors with Ranger (the person they were pushing) or anyone else in the game. with Brunneis in the position they're in, as I alluded to in the first paragraph, I think it's more of a town tell than it would otherwise be, since scum-them should be searching for allies here or trying to do ... something ... to derail their lynch.

Cool, while you keep your vote on one person the same person you've had it on for the past 8 pages without responding to that much at all

You then cast suspicion on the person they pushed against.

this was a good thing to point out; in a vacuum pushing someone your scum read is pushing is OK if you have reason to suspect scum bussing, but grayfoxx's thought process here wasn't the correct one. he essentially just came up with it on the spot and it read more like a throwaway excuse than anything.

My reads other then what I quoted to you weren't a direct answer to you. I'm not voicing my thoughts and opinions in accordance to what you want to hear, sorry.

I thought the needless antagonism here looked p town. there are times when deliberately antagonizing someone can be a scum tell (when it's entirely uncalled for), this isn't one of them.

@brunn

Reread the specific post regarding Ranger.

Why wouldn't I keep my vote on you? I think you're scum. I'm not as confident in you being scum recently , because your last few posts look a little better.

But you have alot of pressure on you, so it's kind of forced content.

Ide like to hear back from ranger, as he is the only other person I would be comfortable voting right now.

What the hell?

I've been the top wagon MOST OF THIS GAME. Are you seriously mostly voting me because "apparently everyone is trying to force me to make content"

That's a terrible reason to stay idle on a wagon this long and I can't believe nobody has called you out on it.

And I'm not even the only person you're willing to vote? This reinforces to me that Ranger may actually be a scumbuddy of someone.

Why are you keeping your vote on me this long, and have pushed nobody else - supposedly? Ugh.... I just can't see this as town.

this is actually an excellent point that is something I'm going to look into in more depth now that I'm able to sit down with the game. and no, it's not "desperate" - regardless of alignment, calling out scum reads on your wagon is a fairly standard thing. people who are pushing them as desperate for this should feel bad.

tbh, I find most of what Taly is posting about grayfoxx to make a lot of sense and I don't know why anyone is taking issue with it

Because I seriously do not get the suspicion on duppin. At all. He seems to be posting really, really strongly in a ridiculously-town manner.

He is not posting strongly.

Okay you sniping jerk, let me rephrase that because my normal speech patterns seem to have left an opening for you.
duppin IS posting really, really strongly, no 'seems to be'.

His posting is very, very strongly town.

In some alternate reality maybe.

I'm liking the Duppin vote more now.

this makes a lot of sense to me as a reaction to someone defending someone you're scum reading and I know this because I had the same reaction when reading that Ranger post - when I read it, my first thought was that she was just making it up and that nothing in duppin's posts could have been considered "very strong". I like the way they basically snap-called Ranger on it, it didn't come off like there was some kind of ulterior motive behind it.

+ more needless antagonism that I liked.

Because it looks like you'd rather go on a long-running wagon instead of actually looking at every possibility?

This is just a hella bad picture considering that Gray was the first on my wagon in that, you're excluding the idea of looking at him before actually making a push to vote and lynch me.

Oh, and I've been suspicious to you THIS ENTIE GAME for no stated reason? Cool, now you've almost confirmed to me that you're scum trying to conceal my mislynch. Thanks.

I like (and sympathize with) this post a lot.

the exception to all of this is if they wind up being SK, but I'm not really interested in lynching the SK over group scum today, soooo.

[Ika Musume]

A this point, I'd prefer Duppin over Brunn.

what are your thoughts on grayfoxx?

[Ika Musume]

I kind of like duppin's posts on the last page, I disagree with most of them but there are some idiosyncracies there I think are more likely to come from town than scum (the first paragraph of 812, 814 wasn't bad either).

I might have to kick Persivul out of my town reads bc not enough room

[Ika Musume]

@brunn

Reread the specific post regarding Ranger.

Why wouldn't I keep my vote on you? I think you're scum. I'm not as confident in you being scum recently , because your last few posts look a little better. But you have alot of pressure on you, so it's kind of forced content.

Ide like to hear back from ranger, as he is the only other person I would be comfortable voting right now.

this post singlehandedly sums up why I hate grayfoxx's play this game day.

"you've been town posting, but you have a wagon on you so I don't care!"

[Ika Musume]

Looking a triv wagon I think brunn and/or max are scum.VOTE: max

Brunn is claiming VT. I need to go back and see who voted for him. Why didn't scum run his wagon up, like they did trivs?

I'm ok with voting either, but wanna vote max for pressure.

I thought this looked shallow and not like he was actually thinking it through all the way; he says this but then he drops it immediately and there's no further questioning re: who the scum on the wagon would be if Brunneis is town. (and no, just one vote/scum read on maxwell is nothing in terms of serious consideration.)

[Ika Musume]

Except it wasn't. Maybe it began IN the RVS, but that doesn't make it an RVS wagon. My vote was dead-serious, and pretty much most of the other votes were explicitly serious, too. The peak of the wagon was well after the RVS had ended, in fact.

mm, I'm in the middle of reconsidering my read on you, but this is something that still gives me pause.

Wanted to ask.
Whatever happened to the Errant wagon?

Errantparabola - (6) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

We had this, and now...it's down to just three.

Errant escaped from L-1 unscathed.

I still have less than zero idea why you think this means anything in terms of Errant's alignment. it is, on the other hand, the kind of angle I would come up with as scum if I was looking for an easy excuse to push what I think is a consensus read in a way where I don't want people to question it.

and even if the votes on the wagon were serious (I'm looking at it again and GMI guess had a serious vote even though she backed off it later?), it's still awful because it was 7 fucking pages into the game. you seem to be implying that people would actually consider lynching someone (see ... GM backing off of said read), on like page 7-8, with hardly any info or solid content to actually form a read based of, and pushing Errant as scum as a result of that.

this argument still looks entirely facetious to me.

[Ika Musume]

I think I said this before, I feel duppin is more likely scum than Brunneis, but Klingon/Tally AtE and flailing has done nothing to encourage me to actually move my vote.

Just continue being attacked and attacked.

Right now:

Varsoon-Town
Ika-Likely Town, potential SK? Doubtful.
Duppin-Scum
Ranger-Scum leaning
Persivul-Town
Max-Town leaning
Grayfoxx-Scum leaning
Errant-Town

this Fire or Hermit?

would you consider a gray wagon?

[Ika Musume]

also, Ranger, if you want to sway me on a Brun lynch (aka finally elaborate on why you think they're scum), now's your chance.

[Ika Musume]

vote: grayfoxx

also while I'm here Ranger pushing 4 scum isn't a "slip". 3 mafia/1 SK was confirmed as soon as we softed we were a PR.

[Ika Musume]

I still can't find anything incongruous about anything Brun is posting. which by itself isn't a town tell, but it's nowhere near "ATE" or "desperate" like people are claiming it is.

[Ika Musume]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

so I'm doing some armchair meta (o god). what I'm seeing here is a lot more hedging in the scum game (scum being overly careful with the statements they're making) than in his play here; not a certain tell or anything but it's something I'm noting.

[Ika Musume]

Stop offering ways for Klingon and Persivul (Makara) to slime their way out of the inevitable.

then tell me exactly what about Brun's posts is scummy besides "ATE/flailing" or otherwise explain why I'm wrong about them, because that continues to be a horrible reason for scum reading them. I don't give a shit if you usually "don't need to explain your reads".

[Ika Musume]

tbh I don't town read Persivul but it in no way implies Brun-scum and even that relies on Persivul being scum in the first place; I could see any number of gamestates with both Brun/Gray as town and Persivul as scum or even Brun as town and Persivul bussing

which is why I think you haven't really thought through this all the way

[Ika Musume]

you wouldn't want that. my play in live mafia was pushing tammy as scum in every single game i played

[Ika Musume]

Wait, why not? Doesn't getting the SK save a life?

lynching SK today means 3-5 MYLO tomorrow unless scum misses a kill. lynching groupscum means 2-1-6 going into tonight with a chance of cross kills, if not we can lynch the SK tomorrow and it'll be 2-3 LYLO D4 - key point here is we need the same lynching accuracy (no mislynches)

allowing for the chance of a cross kill is the better option imo

I can understand why scum would do this, but ranger has stuck to it with such dedication throughout this entire game that I think that his belief is genuine.

mm, I don't think it's particularly difficult to act stubborn about a read as scum. or am I missing something?

[Ika Musume]

Brunn says I'm scum, because I'm pushing his wagon.

this is pretty distinctly not true. even if you don't agree with their reasoning, they clearly have reasons for scum reading you here.

@brunn

Reread the specific post regarding Ranger.

Why wouldn't I keep my vote on you? I think you're scum. I'm not as confident in you being scum recently , because your last few posts look a little better.

But you have alot of pressure on you, so it's kind of forced content.

Ide like to hear back from ranger, as he is the only other person I would be comfortable voting right now.

What the hell?

I've been the top wagon MOST OF THIS GAME. Are you seriously mostly voting me because "apparently everyone is trying to force me to make content"

That's a terrible reason to stay idle on a wagon this long and I can't believe nobody has called you out on it.

And I'm not even the only person you're willing to vote? This reinforces to me that Ranger may actually be a scumbuddy of someone.

Why are you keeping your vote on me this long, and have pushed nobody else - supposedly? Ugh.... I just can't see this as town.

did you ever respond to this? I looked and the only response I found was you calling all of it "misreps" without any explanation.

[Ika Musume]

I'll go with this. He doesn't call me scummy, just says my play is bad.

is this directed to me?

[Ika Musume]

"You've been town posting, but you have a wagon so idc" leaves out the fact his other posts are scummy.

After his sudden influx of AtE. I'm more confident than ever that he's scum. Not 100 percent, but it's my best guess.

#nope

[Ika Musume]

K.

we're lynching grayfoxx today. ftr, 852 is not a town response to my scum read on him.

[Ika Musume]

This is why I'd be voting Persivul if I had the opportunity.

you think that looks like bussing, as opposed to scum searching for a bullshit reason to push the big wagon?

i would bet on the latter if Persivul is scum

[Ika Musume]

i would still like you to elaborate on the Brun scum read, as it will likely tell me a lot about your alignment and, potentially, if compelling enough, whether i'm (god forbid) wrong about my town read on them

the first sentence doesn't really address my point; at the time you initially started pushing that angle, she was a consensus scum read, yes.

p-edit: @Ranger. also i thought that was L-2?

[Ika Musume]

I'll go with this. He doesn't call me scummy, just says my play is bad.

is this directed to me?

#yep

OK hold on.

were you saying *i* was saying your play was bad, or were you saying Brun said it? this is what i meant but i don't know if it came out right

[Ika Musume]

it's 6 to lynch, though? that's L-2

[Ika Musume]

I was talking about ika calling my play bad. Not you.

OK. that actually just confirms my initial thought that 852 wasn't a town post, so thanks, i guess? (i was worried i had misread it)

[Ika Musume]

Ika, what do you think about Ranger?

conflicted, which is why I've been asking her to explain her reads for basically this whole time since I was in the game.

I'm mostly just waiting for the wagon of death on Gray to arrive.

[Ika Musume]

I could lynch Ranger but I mislynched her the first game we played (albeit I was scum) so I'm scared to lynch her until she actually answers my question so I can solidify a read on her. granted, I doubt she will actually get around to it before the deadline

[Ika Musume]

I'm forgetful; you'll have to remind me what question it was.

elaborate on the Brun scum read

[Ika Musume]

fox posting elsewhere and not checking in here makes me feel at least somewhat optimistic it was a scum lynch

inb4 he comes in here right after I post this

[Ika Musume]

I'm assuming this is StC?

I gave you a perfectly fine chance to sell me on Brun when I started derailing it. you didn't, and instead handwave dismissed it. if it turns out you *were* right and you don't want this to happen again in future games, change your habit of expecting people to blindly follow you with no reasoning given.

[Ika Musume]

I refuse to be apart of a second mislynch. Let my other head take the blame (or credit?) for however grayfox flips if he wants.

Just know that is is incredibly stupid that you all caved in and left Brunneis.

actualy no, you get both blame if its wrong as well. you did nothing to stop it and what pie has been saying, you jsut want blind "follow me" shit, you dont get that crap here.

you can take all the blame instead for trying to abolish yourself

[Ika Musume]

i think maxwell is scum

from there, i would say {duppin, Ranger} as the next two scum, but i don't remotely feel confident about it

no one vote

[Ika Musume]

@MOD: what would happen if a mafia RB and a town RB roleblocked each other?

[Ika Musume]

i'm looking at maxwell's bussing meta btw and no, his vote on ranger yesterday does not prevent them from being partners.

my most recent issue with maxwell is more or less his approach to the fox wagon; he essentially just said "not feeling it" with no reasoning given. this is a thought process that is typical of scum who want town credit when a mislynch goes through without wanting to do anything to derail it. in this case, fox wasn't town, but from the POV of scum, they wouldn't have been distinguishing between town and SK for purposes of this. and, i still hate basically everything about his d1 play. the closest thing to a town post i remember would be his massclaim posts on d2 where he tried to push it forward immediately, rather than the scum alternative (letting it drag out), but that is easily fakeable.

this is more so the case *if* i'm right that ranger is his partner - he wouldn't want to derail it because then ranger probably *would* be lynched and he'd have to have an excuse for not actually pushing her

my issue with ranger is that she's mostly spent this entire game mostly tunneling her reads without any sort of reevaluation or awareness of anything going on elsewhere. i was looking at her again and i don't get the impression she's actually finding scum, rather pushing predetermined reads to look like she's generating content when in reality there is none. the fact that she was passive enough to not bother pushing brunneis while supposedly doing this is also bad in hindsight, and then, even when she *did* have a strong scum read (Persi), she still did fucking nothing to push it - rather, we got stuff like 779 which read more like she was just finding a reason to act pissed off than actually having a reason to take issue with Persi's post (Persi's point itself, that he didn't think duppin was doing anything town being a valid thought).

duppin is POE. i need to look at my town reads again

i will flashlynch anyone who votes Brun today, even if it's the IC. that said, i'm kind of hoping i can work with you (Fire) as i don't think you're on the right track, but we need all town votes to lynch scum.

[Ika Musume]

also, i find ranger's magical SK-read on fox to be problematic because i would expect it to be a legitimate read alignment regardless, but it is significantly easier to distinguish mafia vs. SK when you know who the mafia is

no, i will not give you any town credit for being right when you displayed no visible thought process behind it

[Ika Musume]

in case it's not obvious, i think Brun is the scum-designated LYLO mislynch, which, incidentally, both Ranger and duppin are pushing.

[Ika Musume]

uh ... no?

if Brun is town and gets lynched today, the game is fucking over. so yes, i will point it out if i think scum are attempting to fabricate a push on someone. there is also that, in general , someone making a disingenuous push on someone is a fairly good sign the person being pushed is town (because it is likely to come from scum fabricating a scum read on a town player), and the fact that bad pushes are ... bad and should not be allowed to be pushed through to a lynch.

these are just a few of the reasons there is nothing wrong with my approach to the Brun read. you attempting to discredit my read based on how i'm approaching it, rather than addressing my arguments themselves, is scummy as fuck.

Can this please stop? You (and Brunneis) seriously need to drop this "everyone vs Brunneis" already.

Now I do have a question. Why wasn't Brunneis lynched day 1?

Trivium - (5) Brunneis, MaxwellPuckett, Varsoon, Makara, duppin
Brunneis – (4) GrayFoxxxx, The Fire Hermit, Trivium, goodmorning
Goodmorning – (2) Ika Musume, Vedith
Errantparabola - (1) Ranger
Varsoon - (1) Errantparabola

i imagine at this point if Brun is town (which i think is the case), the scum team didn't really give a shit about which wagon went through to a lynch. both Brun and Trivium had a fair amount of suspicion on them iirc

[Ika Musume]

my scum read on you is POE based, it has nothing to do with Brun; my comment about you/ranger both having scum reads on Brun is part of why i think the game makes sense this way, but it doesn't make you more likely scum (this would be a circular argument) unless Ranger does flip scum.

i would look in {Errant, Persi} if you're town but i haven't yet looked in enough depth to figure out which

Then makara (Persivul's slot) voted on Trivium, even though Brunneis was the leading train. Why?
Also If I was scum, I would have chosen to lynch Brunneis day 1 and keep Trivium around for a mislynch day 2, not the other way around.

this is based entirely around what you would do as a player - you're projecting how you would approach the situation onto what other people would do when in reality this isn't the case. some scum might have preferred to lynch trivium first, or it could just be as i said (they didn't care).

this is actually an instance of the sort of circular logic you thought i was using - you're pointing this out with the preconception Brun is scum and searching to come up with stuff that matches the conclusion, rather than fitting the reads to the evidence.

[Ika Musume]

and I do not believe Ranger and Errant could be aligned

can you walk me through this in more detail? i'm aware of their early interactions etc. but i'm looking for why specifically you think it's not distancing

[Ika Musume]

@duppin: i've talked about why i feel preeeetty sure Brun is town, but to reiterate

i don't think their d2 play comes from scum. like, at all. it comes off like town attempting to make as much of a splash on the game as possible by pointing out who the scum on the wagon are. i do not think it looked like they were pandering or appealing to ... anyone in the game. the kind of attitude they took, in my experience, is entirely atypical of scum. their frustration and conviction read to me like it was really obviously not faked - scum will fake it in brief instances, but have a lot of trouble faking it on a body of work level, as they would have done here if they were scum - and, in most cases, i can see why they got frustrated with the arguments being pushed on them (most of which were pretty shit). i legit don't remember any argument i saw for Brun scum that looked even somewhat compelling.

the Taly head raised several points that were not only sound but showed a depth of thought i think would be more likely to come from town. i could point out specifics, but on a general level, most of what they pointed about fox (contrary to how Ranger played it, this is what a *town* player pushing a read in that position would do. i don't think scum's first instinct when being wagoned would be to SK-hunt off of their wagon, i think it would be to misdirect away from themselves in other ways, a la appealing to other players, which they explicitly did not do - what they did is what i would expect town to do in that position) and a lot of their points about Ranger resonated with me a lot (one thing in particular being how Ranger just kinda sorta tunneled all of her reads for most of d2 rather than legitimately game solved).

regardless of your alignment, Ranger's push on them looks entirely fabricated. it looked more like she was simply going with the flow, in that she started to apply pressure after a majority of people had done so, but was passive enough to back off when everyone else did. moreover, she's continued to post no fucking reasoning whatsoever for scum reading them. does this look like town who had Brun as a top scum read most of the game, or does it look like scum following a consensus scum read?

which of these reasons do you disagree with and why?

@Fire: i was briefly following Antihero vs Fakegod and, from what i saw, i didn't see any ATE there although i haven't read all of the game. can you give examples of what you're talking about?

[Ika Musume]

i *think* i agree Ranger/Errant aren't partners based on that page although tbh it's more that i thought Errant's side looked town irrespective of Ranger's alignment, rather than any one thing not looking like scum/scum interactions.

In other news: the only reason I'm not voting Brunneis right now (because their posting on page 22 makes them painfully obvious scum)

also, this post (also from that page) backs up my point above about Ranger's Brun push.

[Ika Musume]

moreover, she's continued to post no fucking reasoning whatsoever for scum reading them.

btw @duppin, i think this is specifically because she's worried if she *does* elaborate i'll point out why it's wrong (as i've been needling her over it pretty hard) and it'll make her look bad

she's not engaging in more depth about the Brun read because she knows she can't without looking like obvious scum and being unable to push it through - the longer she goes without explaining it, the longer people will think she has a compelling reason for it.

[Ika Musume]

I'm not entirely sure what to respond. I am not townreading them, so obviously I believe their d2 play could come from scum.

i am more interested in why you disagree, as opposed to just the fact that you disagree. i.e. in response to the first point why do you think they, as scum, would see a wagon on them again on d2 and think "obviously the best way to get out of this is to attack everyone, since that's clearly the best way to sway them off of me" - rather than "i'll try and convince players X and Y that i'm town so they stop pushing me"

what town things has, e.g. Ranger or maxwell, said this game?

She claims that me being a low-volume poster isn't alignment indicative, yet she chose to townread me for it day 1, which makes me believe that she was indeed buddying.

i'm not reading into this - i think they were just applying meta incorrectly, and erroneously thought you wouldn't lurk as hard as scum (which they then rescinded).

Anyway, about Ranger I don't know. She could very well be scum, but I honestly don't really feel like pursuing it today, because I am convinced there is at least one scum between Brunneis and Persivul. Obviously this is easy for me to say since I know I am town, but there has to be at least one scum between them.

might i be able to sway you onto Ranger given enough effort?

i don't see myself voting either of those today

[Ika Musume]

The follow-through question is, if both wagons were on town, how did they form? This, again, comes back to Errantparabola's L-1 wagon.
Makara switched from the Errant wagon to the Trivium wagon. This fits with the pattern of scum who are coming off of a bus-vote, onto a wagon on town.

i don't agree. why couldn't it just be scum moving off a ... town ... wagon onto another town wagon?

i would still like a more in-depth explanation for WHY you're (or were) reading Brun as scum, and why Errant is scum outside of the wagon etc. you claim withholding reasoning until later in the game is beneficial. it's fucking MYLO, this doesn't work anymore.

[Ika Musume]

i would like to see Persi's response to that to be sure but as it is i don't agree.

[Ika Musume]

I am not an amateur. More than any other thing, I resent the thought of a player thinking I would be stupid enough to play like rookie scum.

this reads like you're deliberately overreacting in order to get town read as "frustrated town". which, conveniently, you also did with Persi D2.

will respond to the rest of the post later, if i decide to

[Ika Musume]

holy jesus fuck calm the fuck down.

if i don't respond to a post, it's because i don't think it will lead anywhere at that juncture and will only serve to create a bunch of noise which will obfuscate actual discussion. if we wound up getting in a huge wall vs. wall shitfight at this point, either no one would read it if you're scum (bad for me) or it'd be entirely pointless if you're town.

your explanation re: Brun and Errant was what i've been looking for this whole time, but i don't have enough time to analyze it in-depth rn

[Ika Musume]

you don't have enough faith to think that i'm willing to reconsider my stance even when i'm _explicitly backing off_? if that's the case, then wow

[Ika Musume]

^ i do not see how any town player sees the above as scum.

[Ika Musume]

Not sure what to make of Ranger and Ika atm. But I'll read I depth later... Already fulfilled my capacity for thinking today.

i'm still conftown btw - if i was lying, it would be CDMTTTT and there wouldn't be an SK in the game.

[Ika Musume]

sidenote IF ranger is town, i would be looking at some combination of {persi, errant, duppin, maxwell}

which i could actually see, tbh.

[Ika Musume]

listen up, fuckwit

i cannot even begin to explain why those last few posts are the most disgustingly awful posts i've ever seen in a game. your read on brun is absolute fucking shit and you scum reading me is similarly shit because I'M LITERALLY CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN, and you blind voting in MYLO shows you have literally no understanding of literally anything about this game.

play the fucking game properly or replace out and leave the game to firebringer who actually has the mental acuity of a human being

you are the worst player i've ever had the (mis)fortune of playing with

[Ika Musume]

i would call for a force replace on you for being so awful it's actually disgusting, but i doubt the mod would allow that

[Ika Musume]

i think i'm just going to work with mafia from now on because hopefully they'll give me an honorary victory for siding with them over town

HEY MAFIA TEAM, HOW ABOUT THIS? WE NO LYNCH, YOU LEAVE ME ALIVE, AND I'LL VOTE THE FIRE HERMIT FIRST POST TOMORROW AND CALL IT A DAY. SOUND GOOD?

[Ika Musume]

ok pie stop

[Ika Musume]

you need to cool down. take a breather and come back lacter for me, i dont disagree that saint is a terrible player overall but this should eb saved for psot game

[Ika Musume]

you all know none of this matters since the game is an autoloss as long as constantine continues being a dumb fuck, correct?

we might as well flashlynch him for the lulz instead of trying to lynch scum cos we can't lynch scum with only 4 town votes

[Ika Musume]

3. This is a scum slip. In your desire to frame me you just admitted that this is your scum game. This, along with your prediction of an SK kill, is pretty damning evidence.

i haven't fully read all the posts i missed but this isn't a scum slip

Ika thinks this is a towntell, but some of us do not. I personally get way more frustrated as scum than I do as town, especially if I believe the reads on me are bullshit.

and this isn't what i said. just frustration in a vacuum can be easily faked. the thing that is a town tell is that they've been consistently frustrated, throughout basically the entire game, for reasons that make sense. all of their posts are coming from the same, frustrated, mindset, and i think this is what is almost impossible to fake. i never see scum fake this much frustration in a game and when i do it's for nonsensical reasons (e.g. Malakittens pretending to get pissed off at me "confbiasing" a read on her when i clearly wasn't), not reasons that make sense (as i said, i can see exactly why both of them are getting pissed off in most cases).

[Ika Musume]

I'm sure he will move his vote if he has to.

sadly, i don't think he will

i assume even if we get 4 votes on someone, with no hammer, he'll still be like "HERP DERP LYNCH BRUNNEIS BECAUSE I SAID SO". he is literally that bad at the game.

I want Kling to engage me, and if I feel it is town I believe we should lynch Persivul.

i was kind of meh on what i saw of Persi's response to you. i haven't read it in-depth, though

[Ika Musume]

i don't think he was overreacting. most of his posts reminded me of posts i used to make a lot when i thought someone was scum pushing me - he thinks all the arguments against him are hilariously poor and tries to break them down in as much detail as possible, be as loud as possible, etc. so that people will read and hopefully agree with what he's writing. i didn't agree with all of his reasoning but i thought most of it made sense (even despite the fact i think you might be town atm)

it's not really effective, but i can see why he did it

[Ika Musume]

because both of us believe the arguments against us are terrible.

i don't think he thinks this?

I personally didn't like his reaction* I mean. To me it felt like he was overreacting at least.

Anyway, what do you think about Maxwell?

probably scum. two things i can think of OTOH that i disliked about his play have been 1. the way he kinda sorta just sat and perpetuated trivium/brun d1 without really getting involved in it, and 2. him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it. i also don't like the fact that he's absent today

[Ika Musume]

o. i thought quite a few of taly's criticisms of your points were actually valid - which is a large part of why i specifically liked their reaction to it. i can break it down in-depth if you want

[Ika Musume]

what do you think of my thoughts on maxwell?

[Ika Musume]

kling, i would like to ask that you step back for the time being

most of what you pointed out isn't indicative of anything. i get the feeling that you started with the preconception duppin is scum, and pointed out every single thing you saw to match the conclusion, rather than fitting the read to the evidence. moreover, even if you *are* right, you won't convince anyone by doing this.

i think you're on the wrong track with this (duppin could be scum but if he is it's not for the reasons you've posted) and i'd like if you could step back, work with me and consider possibilities elsewhere.

[Ika Musume]

you're both town, fucking stop it

worst case, just fucking ignore her. you won't make it to endgame anyway

[Ika Musume]

and fucking lol at you complaining about her attitude when you walked in here and parked your vote on her without any consideration whatsoever

you continue to prove you're nowhere near worth talking at

[Ika Musume]

i don't even disagree kling's last post was unnecessary

but what you're doing is as fucking bad, if not worse, and what you've done up to this point is equally worse

so

[Ika Musume]

i think i'm going to

vote: maxwell

i would like people to comment on whether they would vote here today and why.

[Ika Musume]

duppin can win if he's scum solely for being like the one person in this game who's actually attempting to refine their reads and work with people

i no longer care enough to read any more into it than that

[Ika Musume]

I feel slightly more confident Errant may be town? Not sure about Pers and Ranger; but they very well could be buddies with someone.

But Ika - you haven't given a huge case on Max, I want to see more of your scumread reasoning on him.

if persi is scum i don't think ranger is scum with him although i haven't checked the interactions properly

i'll explain the maxwell scum read in more depth probably tomorrow when i have more time

[Ika Musume]

Ika, what's your read on me, and who out of Pers/Ranger is more likely to be scum?

don't know and don't know. if i had to pick one out of {persi, ranger} right at this second i'd probably say persi but i wouldn't have any faith in it. i'll have a better response after i do some rereading

I gotta stop the tunneling my head is doing.
Like I think Hermit can be good, but this tunneling is doing nobody any favors.
UNVOTE: Brunneis
I need to relook at the game, but this push on Brunneis isn't going anywhere and frankly so many are pushing against it I don't think it would just be scum diverting it.

And @Ika it was the Midnight Sun game. I can see it maybe being a Null tell. Kling once told me she can go AtE too hard sometimes, I just don't like where she took it and it was blinding me to the events of the game.

-Fire

<3 fire. i'll look through it when i get the chance.

[Ika Musume]

I don't see duppin or max being scum

why on both of these

[Ika Musume]

unvote:

[Ika Musume]

I'm around, I've read the page this is on, I'm in no shape to be posting. See you all tomorrow.

PEDIT: Pffft

[Ika Musume]

Did I miss something, Ika? Why did you unvote Max when Ranger voted?

cos

she said i would

i do not want to see a scum team containing some combination of {you, duppin, persi, errant} quickhammering him

[Ika Musume]

PIE WHY DID YOU SET THE GENDER FOR FEMALE?

[Ika Musume]

i don't think ranger can be scum with anyone besides duppin or maxwell

i'm checking interactions atm

[Ika Musume]

Idea I've been kicking around: the conftowns each give a full reads list, then we vote for a No Lynch, see who scum kills, and go from there tomorrow. It could prove to be a very entertaining cup of wifom.

this is an awful post. :/

I'm not sure if you realize this, but if we lynch the RB today, I may be able to block a kill tonight and give us an extra mislynch. if we no lynch today, though, one of {me, Fire} is guaranteed to die as I can just be blocked.

[Ika Musume]

Did the votes just reset? I thought we were much closer to a lynch than this.
Anyways, my other head probably is feeling less motivated to play this game, and I can understand why.

Right now, I just want to lynch someone and call it a day. Would prefer someone in Ranger/duppin/Brunneis.

-Fire

this is literally all of my town reads

can you please consider maxwell-slot? I haven't had any time to look at the game you linked, but I will when I have it.

[Ika Musume]

ika blew it off with a "meh" and IIRC no one else made significant comment on it. So why bother?

i wasn't "blowing it off". i didn't find any of it compelling.


i should hopefully be around this weekend.

[Ika Musume]

except i explained why, specifically, it was awful in the same post, so if you disagree, you should be able to explain *why*.

i don't like the way you're attempting to preemptively discredit scum reads on you without appearing to care about the reasoning behind them.

[Ika Musume]

what do you think about my, and others', reasoning for scum reading maxwell?

[Ika Musume]

I don't like the way duppin discredits scum reads on himself by just repeating that he knows he's town. That doesn't seem to bother you. Go figure. To each his own I suppose.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

You promised a case on him Sunday and never made it. Mind reading is above my pay grade. At this point I'll wait for Troy to post before saying more on the slot.

i'm aware of that, but it's not like i haven't laid out *any* reasoning at all in the game thread.

if you're going to ask me for further elaboration on either of these reads, i'll have to get a rain check on giving you a proper answer until i have more time (might be as early as tomorrow). the only reason i haven't been here is because i literally have had no time to be here.

[Ika Musume]

He starts on brun, switches to triv, and stays on triv for the rest of the day. What's the problem with this? Have you considered that it may just be a play style issue? While you presumably see the question to duppin as perpetuating brun/triv, it could just as easily be his method of pushing triv. Some people would rather influence others by asking questions and planting seeds than being direct. Someone with a more direct play style could "kinda sorta" see this as not "really getting involved."

the problem with this is that there was literally no focus whatsoever outside of either Trivium or Brun. anywhere. *if* he had other scum reads elsewhere, or was questioning other people in the game, or getting people to take stances outside of that, I would agree. but there is basically fucking nothing, outside of one or two posts which I can only really see as scum reads or questioning if I squint. he had a scum read on GM for like one post, and apparently a weak scum read on Errant - which he did nothing to push at all - and that was it.

regardless of playstyle, town *do not* play an entire game day around nothing but consensus reads without any effort to engage other scum reads whatsoever. they just don't. most town players will look at, or at least make any attempt whatsoever to develop, at least some reads elsewhere. he did not

another issue I have with how he played this was, for all the focus on Trivium/Brun, there was hardly anything directed *to* either of them, just passing comments. I could see him pushing them via asking other people questions (hell I do it all the time), but if he was doing this, why wouldn't he bother to ask at least something towards themselves? any sort of comment on what they were posting would have done, but literally

nothing

after 292, no "I don't like post X" or anything at all seriously go and check.

I guess it is possible he thought that, despite Trivium/Brun pretty much dominating D1 to the point of there being a severe lack of discussion elsewhere, that the best way to approach it would be to follow along with it as much as possible ... and then deliberately avoid taking any hard stance on anything they had actually done ... but I think it makes a lot more sense as scum wanting to keep a 1v1 going without wanting to commit too hard to a stance either way (thus looking risking bad after a town flip).

So, that charge rings hollow to me. But this does raise the question of the change on triv from 193 to 253. The reasoning given is somewhat rambling and ambiguous: "I disagree with Trivium's arguments against Brunneis, and it makes me pause. It's hard to explain, but Trivium is saying that Brunneis should be trying to advance the game, instead of trying to 'look town'? Usually when scum want to look town, they try to ask questions, share reads, etc. Or, well.. Basically I don't like Trivium's case, and it makes me second-guess myself on Brunneis. Like, accusing then of trying to look town while also saying that they should be doing more to advance the game... There's no other way to look town without doing the latter, is there?"

That's not very good, but is it scummy? The scum motivation would be if brun is also scum. Max gets on brun early for distancing, but a wagon builds, so he moves to a counter wagon on a pretext. However, I share your opinion that brun is likely town, so that reason doesn't hold, and I don't see scum motivation to move off town!brun.

disagree. I think there's a fairly straightforward scum motivation with both Trivium and Brun as town: having a giant town vs. town shitfight going on is really beneficial for scum because it'd generate a bunch of noise and keep everyone in the game distracted. thus, scum would benefit greatly from attempting to keep something like Trivium vs. Brun going if they were able to do so.

I take issue with 253, in particular, for specifically this reason. the line of thought he gave there makes literally no sense. in the first place, when someone accuses someone of "trying to look town" or "not advancing the game", the obvious implication is that they don't think anything they've done has *actually* advanced the game (that is, scum faking it). but, moreover, even if we're working under the assumption he believed it, there is no progression from 193 to here. Trivium's arguments not holding up logically seemed to be a weak enough point to not take issue with it when he made 193, so why is it a big deal now?

it's inconsistent because there is no real thought process there. he's not legitimately forming reads, he's using it as an excuse to flip flop in between Trivium and Brun in order to fuel the 1v1.

the scum motivation for moving off town-Brun is the same idea. he moved off because it didn't matter which one got lynched; they're both town, and given people's universal scum reads on one or both of them and how it played out, whichever one didn't get lynched would almost certainly be lynched the next day or at the very least put under heavy scrutiny. in fact, I would say Brun flat-out _would_ have been lynched if it wasn't for me coming in here and derailing it, so I don't have any idea why you'd disagree there is scum motivation here. I don't think there necessarily had to be any further strategic reasoning behind it, but it is a valid course of action and pretending to flip flop back and forth between the two reads would be an okay-ish way to look like you were generating content.

the last scum game I played was essentially an autowin for me and my partner for similar reasons: _three_ (not just two) town players got into a massive shitfight with each other, and all we had to do was sit back and watch it happen. and - as I think was the case with Brun and Trivium - we mislynched _all three_ players in succession and won the game.

Regarding "him token opposing the fox wagon yesterday without a real thought process behind it":

First, fox has flipped SK. Knowing that, why would scum oppose the wagon?

Going to the ISO:

SK != mafia - from a mafia POV, any lynch on someone who isn't them is the same in terms of their alignment. he likely just didn't care

526 - Gives a really wishy-washy read on grayfox, but there's no wagon on him at this point.
873 - "From skimming this pages posts I'm seeing a Grayfox wagon. While better than a Brunneis one I'm not sure if I'm feeling it. Ranger or Errant would be better imo but I haven't properly read up yet."

And that's it. Seriously - you have two points against him and that's one of them - that he'd rather wagon Ranger or Errant?

This is pretty underwhelming. You need a lot more than this for a mylo lynch. You could easily be scumreading him for having a different playstyle and being less competent and eloquent than yourself. The only way I would buy this would be with a clear meta argument showing more directness and greater certainty in reads.

that wasn't my point at all; I don't have any issue with him wanting to lynch someone who wasn't fox. what I take issue with is the complete lack of any depth at all behind it. he had literally no fucking reasoning. even if he isn't an eloquent player, or isn't good at explaining his reads, he should at least have *some* reasoning for being held up on the fox wagon, or *some* thoughts on what had happened since he posted, or any reasoning at all.

he didn't. on the other hand, I find it is ridiculously common for scum to attempt to oppose wagons for ambiguous reasons, since it allows them to point back and say "I was right about this!" in order to gain town credit when a mislynch goes through when in reality they weren't actually posting relevant content or doing anything to derail the wagon on one of their supposed town reads.

[Ika Musume]

in 386, maxwell acknowledges it would be a poor idea to just lynch the other one of {Brun, Trivium} if one flipped town.

D1 ends, and D2 begins with Trivium flipping town.

521: his first D2 post, where he has a scum read on Errant. 526 and 528 are his next two posts, where he doesn't pressure Errant at all. this might be OK, except for the next post.

548: backtracks on his previous town read on Brun, ignores his scum read on Errant, to vote Brun for "soft defending Errant" - this despite the fact this is reliant on Errant flipping scum - when Brun was the leading wagon and

despite

the fact that an Errant wagon would have been viable at that time (see: VC on that page).

moreover, in this whole progression, he dropped the "lynching the other one is dumb" idea immediately: no attempt at divining whether, or who, the scum who were taking of advantage of it were, and he fucking votes Brun instead of Errant himself when, given what he's posted, the Errant vote should have been more appealing AND VIABLE. what does this look like? town who believes their reads, or scum preparing for that second chain mislynch they were planning on D1 after the first of Trivium/Brun got lynched?

seriously, what the fuck do people read as town here?

[Ika Musume]

their progression on Errant might just be distancing, tbh.

reading their ISO from the top, they push Errant all game, even after 548, and then ... never ... vote her, despite what I just pointed out about the votes and despite backing off of Brun after the wagon dissolved.

[Ika Musume]

Can you explain your Ranger and Duppin townreads? I can see Duppin being town at this point.... but eck, I'm not a fan of his posts overall. I appreciate their recent engagements, however.

duppin town read on a general level is that he's put more effort into game solving than would be necessary from scum in this position - I don't feel remotely strongly about it, though, and want to ISO him (and Errant) in depth after I finish scanning through maxwell's ISO again.

I thought most of Ranger's recent posts were fairly solid, plus it would kind of suck if she thought she'd have to fake frustration as scum to get out of being scum read.

[Ika Musume]

Errant was kind of a low-key scumread for most of the game. I've never really liked her posting when she's been around, but my interest in her was overshadowed by Trivium and Brunneis. I thought both of them were more worth looking at, especially since other people seemed to be seeing what I was seeing.

they say this, then after Trivium got lynched they _still_ didn't bother pursuing the Errant scumread. if their reason was really that Trivium/Brun were overshadowing everything else in the thread, they would have done so after the shitstorm between the two of them stopped, not kinda sorta sat around until finding a reason to keep voting Brun, which is what they did.

and by "pursuing" I don't even mean voting, I mean literally anything at all, which they still didn't do, and no, one line in passing is not pursuing it.

[Ika Musume]

what I'm getting out of this, is a solid, body-of-work scum read, based on their actions over the course of the entire game. I usually don't like to pull specific posts this late in the game; what someone does on a body of work level is usually a lot more telling to me. I think in terms of the stances maxwell took when it actually mattered most, there is a severe inconsistency in the approach they said they were taking and what their reads actually were (Brun D2 being the main one), and basically all of their stances have fairly compelling scum motivation behind them (Brun/Triv D1, Brun D2, Errant D2, Gray D2, on and on and on and on).

it might not look like much, but yes, this is a lot of evidence for someone who only made 45 posts - as I said, I don't like to nitpick on every single post someone makes.

[Ika Musume]

I don't like the way duppin discredits scum reads on himself by just repeating that he knows he's town. That doesn't seem to bother you. Go figure. To each his own I suppose.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could be town for reasons elsewhere.

it does, actually, i just think he could
be town for reasons elsewhere.

you lose

next time, read my posts before trying to discredit them as "sloppy"

[Ika Musume]

ops, I quoted the wrong thing.

I'm 100% sure I said I found duppin's D1 play scummy, though.

[Ika Musume]

like, seriously, read the kind of shit I was saying about duppin D2

duppin, I want your reads on everyone in the game. doesn't matter if you have strong reads or not, just give reads on _everyone_.

you've hardly taken any stances at all this game, and you being inactive has nothing to do with that

vote: duppin

This was the train on Brunneis 12 hours before the deadline day 1.

Brunneis - GrayFoxxxx,

The Fire Hermit

,

Trivium

,

goodmorning

.

That is 3 confirmed town.

if anything, this is more an indicator of grayfoxx being scum than Brunneis being scum, but even then, I wouldn't put any stock in it.

it is scummy as fuck that you're conveniently ignoring the grayfoxx-scum explanation and twisting it as a reason to push the main wagon.

my town read on him comes from his D3 play, which was ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO HIS PLAY D1/D2. I AM TOWN READING HIM BECAUSE, DESPITE, PLAYING SCUMMY EARLY IN THE GAME, HIS POSTS ELSEWHERE HAVE LOOKED KINDA TOWN. MAXWELL'S HAVE NOT

so tl;dr you're full of shit

[Ika Musume]

quote one fucking post maxwell has made that looks even somewhat town and then we'll have this conversation

what you did is an actual deflection

[Ika Musume]

ya I look at that Persi post and I still have the same opinion of it as I did when I first saw it.

he literally cherry picked ONE point out of like 4 or 5 points I had for maxwell being scum, and is trying to push that my entire argument for maxwell-scum is invalid because I didn't apply that same, specific, point to duppin - while 1. ignoring all my other reasons for maxwell being scum, 2. not bothering to explain why he otherwise thought maxwell was town, 3. ignoring the fact what he was saying was actually just false, as I had said I found duppin's early play scummy, and continued to push him all the way until the start of this game day.

it's horrendous reasoning, and I'll give him one chance to correct it when he arrives, since it could just be that - horrendous reasoning. there are many, many other factors that play into my reads on the two of them than that one, isolated, point.

[Ika Musume]

in other news, at the very least, this causes me to empathize p strongly with Ranger's POV in her one post directed towards Persi D2 that I initially thought looked like scum deliberately overreacting.

this kind of argumentation is seriously annoying.

[Ika Musume]

ftr I do think Persi and maxwell are scum partners, but I don't think Persi's defense of maxwell is straightforward; I think he's operating under the assumption people would assume he wouldn't defend a partner so blatantly obviously as scum (for a few reasons, including, but not limited to, him pushing an angle like this in thread).

also, Troy's entrance is a scum entrance

[Ika Musume]

I'm more interested in which one out of those 2 is more likely to be the RB. I have no fucking idea how to distinguish between mafia goons and mafia PRs, though.

[Ika Musume]

i'm going to read into Errant and duppin more in-depth tomorrow, and then throw down a vote

solely so i can attempt to figure out who the final scum is in case i'm not around tomorro

[Ika Musume]

*tomorrow

[Ika Musume]

And you already have theories even when you HAVEN'T finished reading through the game? Do tell.

this is part of why Troy's entrance is a scum entrance btw

And

Ika,

do you think Ranger is town?

yes, mostly due to her posting this day phase

[Ika Musume]

i (pieguyn) have made 90% of the posts this game, and basically all of them this game day, except for the ones where ika popped up after StC's vote on you and told me to calm down

i'll be looking through duppin/Errant this evening, probably.

[Ika Musume]

i'll be here in like two hours

[Ika Musume]

i was going to make a more in-depth post, but tbh, Taly's Errant stance mostly mirrors where i'm at with them. i'm seeing a lot of words, but no firm stances or any sort of strong push anywhere, and not much effort to really resolve it either (even if i'm viewing their two major analysis posts as this, i would have expected more follow-through from a town player which i didn't really see) which in this position i think is more indicative of scum - compare to duppin who hasn't been around much but had a definitive "maxwell and Persi are scum and i'd lynch either one"

the only thing that has me somewhat worried is that Persi has sat back and done fuck all when it's fairly obvious the lynch is either Troy or him, but i could easily enough see it as him attempting to WIFOM everyone (along the lines of "he didn't save his partner when he could have") or him just not knowing how to approach the situation in a way that wouldn't make him look bad, and troy has done fucking nothing to save his slot, so i don't really care

also, i skimmed that midnight sun game and it took me all of 2 seconds to notice kling's play was different there than it is here.

[Ika Musume]

i was referring to the completed one that fire brought up forever ago that i said i would check and never did

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63134

[Ika Musume]

vote: Troy McClure

[Ika Musume]

not gonna lie, i saw that vote and freaked the fuck out cos i thought it was a quickhammer

i hate LYLO

[Ika Musume]

if we just lost, i don't give a shit. this game had too much ridiculous crap that it wasn't worth dealing with a hypothetical player who doesn't bother playing the fucking game

[Ika Musume]

if troy is scum, and i'm not alive tomorrow, i think lynching Persi -> Errant is most likely to win. i feel pretty sure about Persi, but don't take Errant for granted (although i will say if i'm right on the first 2 interactions point towards Errant as the last scum).

[Ika Musume]

vote: Errant

when they flip scum, I'm blocking Persi next. if a kill happens, he'll be conftown and we'll be in 5p with {him, Fire Hermit} conftown and {Brun} 99% town for the win. if scum wants to keep no killing and turn this into a nightless, also fine with me.

I'm p excited.

[Ika Musume]

I don't think scum would no-kill gambit here cos lolol forcing themselves to need another mislynch, plus it could just backfire in their face if I block one of them anyway.

[Ika Musume]

No NK...? o.0 And holy shit, we actually killed the scum RB.

the no kill happened because i blocked Errant last night

there is no "doubt" about it, unless we think the scum team did a no kill gambit, which i don't think they would have

[Ika Musume]

i see Persi lurking. game, set, match?

[Ika Musume]

ya you're not town

[Ika Musume]

kk

REMEMBER THIS IN CASE I DIE:

when they flip scum, I'm blocking Persi next. if a kill happens, he'll be conftown and we'll be in 5p with {him, Fire Hermit} conftown and {Brun} 99% town for the win. if scum wants to keep no killing and turn this into a nightless, also fine with me.

[Ika Musume]

mod-saaaan ~ doko ni iru no?

[Ika Musume]

i was expecting a flip cos mod is usually online in the evenings from what i can tell. RIP me.

[Ika Musume]

hi. you replaced into a scum slot. sorry Persi ditched us and left you in this position.

vote: Titus

with love, pieguyn

[Ika Musume]

if Titus flips town, I'm blocking duppin next.

fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk

was bound to happen :<

[Ika Musume]

I blocked you last night and no kill happened. in addition to Persi being the most obvious scum that ever scummed D3, and interactions pointing heavily to him.

if you're scum you might as well make it fast and concede because your chances of victory are approximately 0%. ~