Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Elyse]

VOTE: I am not I am not Varsoon

I planned on voting this once I looked at the player list.

So ha

[Elyse]

Titus crumbed godfather in her first post

VOTE: Titus

[Elyse]

Reading now

[Elyse]

In summary:

Dwlee's tongue emoji use was weird.

TSO has only been here 2 years and 364 days. I joined three days before him.

Suzune is being really awkward and taking that tell seriously pings my scumdar.

VOTE: Suzune

The first two words in Titus' posts began with g and f. Godfather. When she flips GF I take credit for it.

grapes is Suzune's buddy.

P-edit: and dwlee is #3

[Elyse]

You had two chances and didn't change then to than.

[Elyse]

Elyse this is not the time to tunnel titus and then reveal as an innocent child. :3

What if Titus is scum??????????????????????????????

P-edit: oh my god

[Elyse]

Can someone make me a doublevoter pls

So I can vote for Suzune and Dwlee

[Elyse]

If you are talking about my then mine is correct.

No I was talking to SirCakez

Elyse what is your problem. Do you actually think I am scum or are you trolling me

Now I do

[Elyse]

I'm wondering if Dwlee is scum or actually thinks someone would crumb being a godfather...

[Elyse]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Elyse]

Dwlee is super awkward, especially 105 and 113, but I'm not sure if it's his playstyle or legitimate scumminess.
The GF crumb stuff needs to go away though, that would be absurd.

He was more confident last time I played with him by a lot.

[Elyse]

Vote: Venmar]

Scum #4

[Elyse]

I am not confident this early unless something pings me hard. And last time I tunelled town for two days and they were a power role. Maybe sleepy posting comes across as scummy, that might be it. But I am pretty sure i got wagoned in denmark mafia d1 elyse. Just like this.

I don't remember that. Could be true.

But I remember you being assertive in saying you were town and almost like people were stupid for even considering you were scum for a second. It's a stark contrast from "I think I'm mislynch bait".

[Elyse]

I decided to stop declaring myself town because people scum read me for it. god damnit elyse.

Am I supposed to know this???

Being "obvscum"as town is fun because yoi get all the people voting for you feeling like total idiots when ya flip

Who called you obvscum? This is so premature.

[Elyse]

Rob13 dies next.

Good work TSO. Here's a townread. Don't let me down

[Elyse]

Rob dies next because his vote for dwlee looked begrudging

[Elyse]

Why

[Elyse]

Reevaluate.

[Elyse]

RIP 30 minutes of my life.

YT is a good vote.

If you flip town I will crusade for YT's lynch.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Elyse]

I'm drunk tell me who to voyr

[Elyse]

^vote

[Elyse]

I haven't read anything since my latest post so

Scum
Dwlee
Rob13 {posisbly]
Aafter or the other a who fencesat
Someone else I can't remember jk it's YT

TOWN
Titus
Probably TSO
PeregrineV

Maybe SirCakez

I can t remembe anyone else on this game.

[Elyse]

You got it dude.

VOTE: beeboy

[Elyse]

I will post hopefully later when I have a block of time to deal with this monstrosity of a game.

[Elyse]

Yo elyse what do you think of my reads that aren't yt?

pedit: Lol aafter you scum?

The ones in 408? They're good except I don't have Rob or wguerts as town.

1st (@SirCakez): NO. I did NOT read between Ranger's where she said posted a "needs to post" on top of 2 dices and where I said she meant we should not hammer. The post(s) where you refer to a player who is not in game I did NOT read.

The thing is whenever I try to post there's always some new posts, and if I read them first then some more will be posted, and so on. So, I just read up to some point and start typing and when I submit I do not read the new posts.. I just confirm my post to be submitted anyway. (This is a temporary situation and should not last long).

2nd: I have decided Dwlee to be 3rd party but NOT a member of the main mafia group. There's NO WAY 12 or even 10 townies will agree on a lynch in the opening 24-48 hours. So it follows that 3-4 mafia are on that wagon, if not even all of them. TSO voted him then Titus (who is town to me) joined in and everybody started piling up line ants on sugar. He did make a slip (Dwlee; that is) that I can't see as an "innocent" one, but still doesn't justify the pile up on him like there was a "be won Dwlee's wagon" kind of win-con in their role PMs.

So, not town (bc he did tell a lie) and not mafia (bc they're voting him) = self-aligned 3rd party. Remains to be seen whether he is likely harmful, bc .. YES .. I have seen town-aligned 3rd party players (ex: Survivour Doctor). They may turn against the time in later stages of the game if needs be, but at the start of the game chances are they want the town to win fast so they can also win.

Whenever someone suggest a third party so early on, it makes me think they're scum who genuinely thinks someone else is scum, but knows they aren't groupscum.

SirCakez's over the top reaction to Varsoon's fake hammer is noted.

Well I can safely say this is the fastest day 1 I have ever had in a large game...

For someone who hasn't really posted anything of substance (that I remember at least), it's interesting you post this as what could be your last post of day 1.

I went from... wait, did that just happen, to it's varsoon, this is probably a play of some kind, to Beeboy what are you doing?! Beeboy STAHP!

Again, what's the point of this?

This has been fun 10/10, would do again.

Or this

Jesus, if YT just keeps spouting theory at us I am going to want to policy lynch him.

Why policy? Why don't you take a stance and say, "YT is scummy for spouting theory and not scumhunting"? It reads to me as almost coaching.

Scumread on BRantz.

Don't y'all fret. I promise to make up ground next day phase which is hopefully longer.

Wtf is this

why wouldn't multi-ball be more likely?

The question is "why would it?" Have we seen anything that indicates a MB game? Did your role PM mention something about it?

Assuming multi-ball w/o a valid reason only complicates matters further for me. I will assume MB when I see something that points to MB. For now I'm comfortable thinking this would be a straightforward entertaining game, so please just let me enjoy my dream while it lasts.

P.S. Are you suggesting this IS a multi-ball?

This pointless speculation is making me scumread Almost.

If someone legitimately hammers then it's basically a scum claim.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, I can say I really hate how YT used the hammer as an excuse to not post any reads or do any scumhunting.

Mhm @ the second part

Elyse needs to be doing more. Don't like how she just popped in, dropped a troll vote and left.

Lol

Maybe I like have a life. Ever consider that? My world doesn't revolve around MS.

I just don't believe that you went from completely familiar with a dayvig gambit in a past game to completely ignorant of what they are, like you claimed, two months later. It's not just the fact that it happened once and you forgot. It's that you talked about it multiple times, discussed it as if you were

already familiar with it

, and then were unable to recall when asked specifically if you've ever seen it before. Surely, the memories would come back after you realized this one was a gambit? If not, when someone asked you directly about past games?

The chances of you telling the truth are way too remote not to lynch you. It's not conf biasing. I actually would have a town read on you if not for that one thing, probably. It's just that T S O pushed your shit in pretty hard.

This explains exactly why I want to lynch Dwlee. Like we can't keep him alive long anyway with the doubt surrounding his slot.

Early in the analysis, I'm on the fence about Elyse. She's particularly forceful with her assertions. She seems eager to pass people off as scum, suggesting she's eager to lynch scum. On the flipside, this could be a ploy on her behalf designed to make us believe she is town in that she's actively scum hunting.. I will look into her more if DWLee is lynched and flips town.

How does that fence feel up your butthole???

Peregrine is usually a lurksack as scum, as seen in MGSV and YCBA IV. The fact he's active and pushing people here makes me pretty confident he's town

Yeah. I feel like I can read Peregrine pretty well and I think he's town here.

Peregrine is usually a lurksack as scum, as seen in MGSV and YCBA IV.

Actually Peregrine just lurks most of the time. I wouldn't call him super active here either.

There's a difference between his scum and town lurking though. His town lurking actually has meaningful content. As scum, he pretends to not know what's going on or randomly votes the top wagon.

Ok. So I decided I'm just gonna netdeck. Which generated enough time for me to read and catch up on this thread.

I feel like TSO's slip catch thing is legit. Legit enough. 100% foolproof, no, well beyond significant enough to justify a lynch in the game of mafia where most things are far less concrete.

My bad penny post might be the most quoted post in the thread now, with unanimous agreement that it is scummy. I'm glad to at least have generated discussion. It was really just a stream of consciousness post that went both ways because I genuinely had feelings both ways on it, and I generally don't triple down on the preview button and distill my posts into one streamlined position when I play town, I try to be glassy.



Using theory to avoid posting content can be a scumtell, but if you look at the way YT has been doing so it hasn't been a very damning style. - points to those leaning on keyword tells instead of intuition.

I'm good to lynch this whenever.

beeboy is whiteknighting Dwlee so hard.

Stopping at the end of page 30 for now. I have to go. Varsoon is town for his post on page 30.

[Elyse]

Ok starting at the top of pg 31

Since beeboy isn't proposing a better target, allow me.

VOTE: beeboy

His derail is ignoring all new information. It's clear he didn't understand the wagon fully (either willfully or unintentionally) when he started decrying it, but rather than react to new information that directly contradicts his narrative of why Dwlee would not have remembered things, he's desperately trying to plug the holes each bout of explanation creates. In his last post, he literally said that he had no idea how dwlee could have forgotten, and yet he still must have. This isn't someone forming reads to the available info. It's someone fitting the info to the read that's convenient.

Ironically, he's making me rethink Dwlee, but only because his white-knighting is so atrocious here. More likely that it's multiball and he thinks Dwlee is town.

Agree with this, except why is it more likely that it's multiball?

Moreover, in 795, you say the Dwlee might be town. Even if it is multiball and beeboy is scum, why would you trust him to read Dwlee as town?

All this arguing between Rob and beeboy is pointless. Beeboy doesn't think Dwlee is scum and Rob does. There's really nothing else to be said. You're not going to convince the other that you're right. Rob is right though and I don't understand why beeboy is being so insistent on Dwlee town since even if he did tell the truth, that doesn't make him town.

Oh I get it now, also I have come to the realization you where scum after reading Rob's explanation on how memory works and your explanation on your memory loss.

VOTE: Dwlee99

lol

I don't really have a good read on pops. The fence-sitting accusation definitely isn't wrong, but I also kind of feel like it's one of those low-effort "easy" reads that generally result in mislynches. Pops' willingness to stand up to the bad Dwlee wagon (the one pre-TSO's discovering the lie) was a + from me, but at the same time, yeah, he did kind of not commit fully in that direction. So idk. Everything from him since that early thing that I talked about in my stream of consciousness is pretty null. Like I just don't remember any of it.

pops + Rob team

To anyone who thinks that I am scum because I didnt remember the fake dayvig:
What is your read on me outside of that?
Why are you confbiasing so hard?

1. scum
2. loaded question

awful

Repeating that you forgot isn't going to get you anywhere, Dwlee. That argument has been thoroughly debunked. Equally, attempting to tell us that you forget where items are in your kitchen won't garner you any support.

I'm liking grapes a lot this game. Much different than last time.

Well, thanks for putting yourself at L-3, Dwlee. It means a lot.

See that's the issue with TSO. He's so fun to play with that I don't want to scumread him and put blinders on. Hopefully Dwlee's scumflip will allow me to put him firmly in the townpile.

Once I die I am going to multiquote every time someone said I was aid I mist definitely wasnt town like you just did, rob. I am them putting them all in google docs and once the game ends I am postjg a huge wall of that.

The fact that you continue to argue that everyone is stupid for thinking you're scum makes me think you're even scummier. Like how don't you understand why you're being lynched and that it's valid? You are continuing to wail and be unhelpful instead of finding scum.

Titus' reads seem whack. Sucks that she can't elaborate on them.

I think it's multiball because everyone on my wagon actually thinks I am scum. This means that both scum teams think I'm on the other.

How can you tell this?

The resistance to the Dwlee wagon makes me feel better. This slot needs to die. It will help me sure up my reads on TSO, beeboy, SirCakez, Peregrine, and pisskop.

snip

My first thought when I saw your reads was questioning if we were reading the same game or not. lol

Not sure if that means anything yet.

Phrases like "not sure if that means anything yet" always ping me.

YT's posts are getting better. My #588 was a troll vote. I was already voting Dwlee and fake hammered him as a joke because a bunch of other people did. I was briefly checking in and read the latest few pages at that point. I do question why he moved me from unsure to his third or fourth biggest scumread when I hadn't posted in between.

tl;dr, CooLDoG has this random scum tell he has been working on, Nero fit into that mold, thus CooLDoG believes Nero is scummy.

Out of interest though, I would like nero to respond to the line after the quote above.

Seems legit. Do you actually think you can get a Nero wagon going based on that though?

If there's a cop in the set-up, I would consider targeting him during the night phase, honestly. I wouldn't mind myself getting targeted either so I'm confirmed town.

Yikes.

YT, almost50 and someone else that I'm forgetting have been like, blatantly SK hunting and the best part is that they're new enough to not realize how universal that scumtell is.

Yeah you're right. YT's "I wouldn't mind getting cop-checked" reads to me as a third party with investigation immunity.

Just saw that you grapes, and suzune are masons. So that means suzune and grapes are pretty much confirmed town, right? I'll have to research the role to get the gist of it. Also like the case you brought up against aafter, the post you referred to is a lot of whitewash dressed up in a long post. I'm game when it comes to voting him, though I'm still putting pisskop on priority for now. Call him my #2 for now. We need more out of him.

This is something else that pings me. Why would you bring this up???

Everybody else is null for me.

Dwlee is null for you?
Edit: nvm, answered later

I think that people should know I'm town based on the fact that literally everyone wants to lynch me but apparently not.

If I was your scumbuddy I would have bussed you so hard the minute TSO exposed you. But there are a bunch of (misguided) people who don't want to lynch you. I mean, you're still alive.

VOTE: Dwlee99

P-edit: What does "would almost want to look at" mean????

[Elyse]

Ok all caught up. Hopefully I don't have to do that again.

[Elyse]

wait

You find me calling everyone stupid scummy? You said that I was scum earlier for NOT doing that. .-.

The difference is that in the last game you said this when people mentioned you as scumread. Now you are doing it when you are the inevitable lynch of the day. It's a lazy way to not be productive instead of the confidence you showed last time.

DWLee, updated read on Elyse? Do you still think she is conclusively town?

Why did you change me from null to scum when I didn't post in between?

P-edit:
This should be good.

[Elyse]

The difference is that in the last game you said this when people mentioned you as scumread. Now you are doing it when you are the inevitable lynch of the day. It's a lazy way to not be productive instead of the confidence you showed last time.

[Elyse]

When did I say you were scum? Point it out. Are you referring to my ordering of people on that one post? I think I had you as fifth most likely to flip scum. I just hadn't gotten a town vibe out of your posts.

Yes that's what I was referring to. I assumed that having me at the bottom of such a long list meant you thought I was scum.

The difference is that in the last game you said this when people mentioned you as scumread. Now you are doing it when you are the inevitable lynch of the day. It's a lazy way to not be productive instead of the confidence you showed last time.

People are mentioning me as a scumread right now. I am not the guaranteed lynch today. You're just making up bs reasons to scumread me.

People are VOTING you now, not mentioning you. And yes you are the guaranteed lynch today. How can you not see that

[Elyse]

[Elyse]

Do you understand what I said?

[Elyse]

What are those reasons

[Elyse]

I was scumhunting earlier in the thread.

[Elyse]

Why

P-edit:
Suzune got better. I've continued to engage Rob in my catch-up posts.

[Elyse]

Everything in your catchup posts related to Rob is agreeing with him though. Did the scumread dissipate?

No.

I could see that though since I agreed with a lot of his thoughts re Dwlee. Maybe it just doesn't show in my catchup. I thought he said a couple wonky things, I think one was about multiball and saying that Dwlee might be town because it could be multiball and beeboy could be scum.

[Elyse]

Promise me you're killing elyse.

I'm reaching out to you.

Do I need to explain myself again?

[Elyse]

Why the fuck are you reaching out to me if you think I'm scum?

I'm trying to get you to understand why you're wrong.

Do you know I'm flipping town and you're eating rope tomorrow? Are you scared?

I'm shaking in my boots.

[Elyse]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm trying to prove why you are wrong. But instead of interacting with me, you're putting your fingers in your ears and shouting that I'm scum.

[Elyse]

Ok bye you're not even trying

[Elyse]

You keep saying you're going to look at me as if Dwlee will flip town

[Elyse]

VOTE: Pops

I hear you on this.

But today Dwlee needs to die.

[Elyse]

I'm calling BRantz scum btw.

I want credit for that when he inevitably flips.

[Elyse]

motherfuckers killed my only townreads like motherfucking why

vote: popsofctown

Bit of an overreaction but I'll join you here.

VOTE: popsofctown

[Elyse]

Does anyone have experience with beeboy? He doesn't seem like a ballsy scum player who would put himself out there like he did.

[Elyse]

Does anyone have experience with beeboy? He doesn't seem like a ballsy scum player who would put himself out there like he did.

Well, I know he was scum in the last game I played:

Here if you want to view: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65087

This game seems like an utter contrast.

I think 23 posts is hard to judge. I don't want to run up beeboy right now.

I kinda wanna wagon 50.

Oh, I'm so sorry I've hurt your delicate feelings by stating you weren't on top of my schedule. I promise to give you proper attention when I'm less occupied trying to get obv!scum lynched. You see, when I see scum I tend to try to lynch them rather than keep it to myself and try to engage with someone else who could potentially mess up with my mind. Your case though will become more apparent towards the middle of the day, so I will -by then- decide on whether you're still a suspect worth inspecting or have actually lift up yourself towards the more secure slots. Until then, feel free to do whatever makes you happy. BEST OF LUCK.

Yeah this is awful.

[Elyse]

Elyse put the Pops wagon on the backburner and vote one of the active wagons please.

No. More people need to check in. I don't want to abandon pops yet.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Nicole Mimi Tithel

@Almost, pisskop, etc.

Why are you ignoring Rob?

[Elyse]

Like he's claiming a guilty on someone and you guys keeping puttering away with your nonsense.

[Elyse]

As long as were clear youre still pushing it as a mechanical guilty.

You mean this pisskop? What does this mean?

@Almost
What do you think about Rob's guilty?

[Elyse]

It means Ima let others do their thing and observe.

I'm asking you what your thoughts on the guilty are.

[Elyse]

I disapprove on outing it so early, I dislike that they are explicitly claiming 'not cop', and I dont like how they are hedging their bets.

That said Im always open to lynching based on claimed guilties. Those are usually wins. But multiballs. They complicate things like that.


I dont think I could make it any clearer that I havent read 90% of the game, so I have no explicit opinion on the D1 play of either. I dont like TSO and AI pings me in a way he has failed to in the handful of other games Ive seen him in.

Cool. I agree with this.

[Elyse]

Why are you ignoring Rob?

I'm not and wasn't. I'm just a slow reader and even more so a typist, and I'm still a page behind as of now. I will finish catching up & sign off, but I have by now voted Mimi.

OK

[Elyse]

@Almost
What do you think about Rob's guilty?

Elyse, I did vote her when I got to that part. You can see where I'm at by the quotes I respond to. If I'm responding to post #1000 (say) it means I've only read to that one, and have yet to read post #1001

I said ok.

I was serious.

I ever mention elly was nommed for a scummy in one of my games w/her? for best scum? she put in more effort than most town, and her cases were built out of mediocre discussion.

Are you trying to scumread me for putting in effort?

[Elyse]

Are you trying to scumread me for putting in effort?

Im trying to scumread you for asking questions and then agreeing with every answer.

1) where have I done this besides your assessment of the guilty
2) why is that scummy
3) what does that have to do with my past scumgame

[Elyse]

I'm sorry this week has been crazy for me. Looks like I will have to do another catchup post soon but I don't have time today either.

[Elyse]

Bear with me and the length of this post as I try to catch up on 50+ pages.

Part of me is like mimi's claim is so bizarre that it couldn't be fake but the other part says "Would that really be here?" and I think not so consider my vote on Mimi is spirit. Still don't trust Rob though.

Why is this all you have to say?

I would like anyone who doesn't buy the guilty result on me to explain why the hell scum-Rob would claim a guilty on me, when all it'd do is probably get him lynched the next day. And ya it could have been a legit guilty even if he is scum here, but if he was scum, with an info role and got a guilty, why would he openly post it and basically tell the other scum team to shoot him?

To be honest I can't grasp the situation at all which is why I am aborting.

This is scummy. There's nothing to grasp.

Rob went so balls to the wall to tryign to allure his role without claiming that I think he should just claim at this point because if he's town he's fucking dead anyways.

I get being suspicious of the guilty, but I don't see why Rob would do what he did as scum.

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

Nicole Mimi, claim now. If not, you're getting quick-lynched. I have an incriminating result, but I'm not going to say what type so that the counter-claim cannot be tailored. I want a full claim - name, role, and who you targeted last night, including result of said action.

I would like anyone who

doesn't

buy the guilty result on me to explain why the hell scum-Rob would claim a guilty on me, when all it'd do is probably get him lynched the next day. And ya it could have been a legit guilty even if he is scum here, but if he was scum, with an info role and got a guilty, why would he openly post it and basically tell the other scum team to shoot him?

If you read his claim, it directly contradicts yours. If you are telling the truth, how do you think HE is telling the truth?

Adding Peregrine to the firm town pile.

I didn't even check my PMs until the moment I made that post, you dolt. I didn't forget a guilty.

The day started while I was working on some stuff due this morning, and I just saw the thread open. I haven't been getting emails when I get PMs lately for some reason.

I frequently miss getting PMs, so this is understandable. I also think that if Rob were to fake a guilty, he would have planned it at night and come out with it as soon as the day started. Unless he did it on the fly, which is highly unlikely and risky, him not checking PMs seems legit.

I didn't even check my PMs until the moment I made that post, you dolt. I didn't forget a guilty.

The day started while I was working on some stuff due this morning, and I just saw the thread open. I haven't been getting emails when I get PMs lately for some reason.

So you used an investigative action and didn't think of it. You also saw at least 2 new messages in your inbox and decided to not read them. Ya this is way too fishy to be legit.

VOTE: Rob

Liking beeboy more for scum.

If you think Rob is scum who has decided to Guilty Nicole then you should still be voting Nicole.

This. Venmar and co's reluctance in believing the guilty and going as far to vote Rob is really scummy.

I think Rob is a scum investigator who was being honest about the claim (or simply lying scum). In multi ball right now Rob being a scum investigator makes sense. Also as town if you are investigating people you actually care about I doubt you wouldn't check your pms to see what the result was but as scum it is reasonable to assume that the result isn't important to you which is why you didn't bother to check it.
If my theory is true determining whether rob is investigative scum or just lying scum we can just watch him flip and if he flips an investigative role we can confirm that Nicole is also scum.

OR we lynch Nicole and if she flips town, we lynch Rob and if she flips scum, he should be NK'd anyway. And if he's not then we can deal with that later. Losing an investigative for no reason like you're suggesting is mindboggling. I don't see how that comes from a town mindset.

I saw ZERO FUCKING THIGNS UIN MY INBOX.

I DON'T GET EMAILS WHEN I GET PMs. I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING WAS THERE.

I clicked a bookmark to come to the thread while I was procrastinating on an assignment I was in the middle of working on and checking up on my mod commitments. I noticed the thread was open and started reading . THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND

You are a scum investigator if you are an investigator at all. Town would want to check there pms if they actually cared about the results of the night action but to a scum investigator those results aren't that relevant until the night phase.

This is complete bullshit.

I'm convinced pisskop and starbucks are scum partners.

I think its customary for new players to play in newbie games first before omgusing people to death

Oh look, pisskop is continuing to comment on random shit and not scumhunt!

Beeboy is waffling more then actual waffles. Second time now he's heavily whiteknighted someone then turned around and voted them.

Mhm.

Some people even as scum in multiball will play it as if they were single-faction scum (i.e. playing for survival). Could easily enough see Aafter going for this approach.

Gonna go with occams razor for now and say he probably just doesn't have that good a scumgame.

Flavor point doesn't really do it for me either.

I wouldn't rule out multiball based on this. Aafter could just be a shitty scumhunter.

In the earlier part of the game, I thought she was townieish. She seemed like she was scum hunting. But as the game has gone on she has lost some of that strength and I began to question whether she just happened to fall into a good spot early on. I'm kind of scum leaning on Elyse. She is taking the quite way out. She is not really talking about much and is being over defensive in the posts that she talking with other people. She asks a lot of questions but does not allow us the same insight into her because she does not share much either just agrees or lets the question hang. This really pings me.

This is mostly due to a lack of time, but sometimes when I ask questions, people give me a satisfying answer. I'm not going to pretend there's something wrong with it if there's not. As far as being defensive, I tend to respond when people mention my name and I've learned that defensiveness isn't scummy.

If Mimi is confirmed scum, like you said, then as far as I am concerned the reads don't matter. If Mimi is town, then she can knock herself out I guess.

Like Rob said, this is a drastic change from wanting to lynch Rob to wanting to lynch Mimi without even letting her share her reads. What's the harm in letting her post? If she's scum, we can disregard her reads. It's not like it's any effort on your part.

For the most part, I really like Mimi's reads. Obviously her read on me is wrong, and I'll address that next, but she puts a lot of thought into her reads and they generally make sense. There's just no way I don't want to lynch her from Rob's "unless this game is bastard, you have to be scum" declaration. If it weren't for that, Mimi would probably be a strong townread for me.

First off, I think dwlee's Elyse point he made before he got lynched was mostly solid, although there's more to it than what he said. In 134, she claimed she explicitly remembered him exuding the aura of town confidence where anyone who pushes you is dumb regardless of how good your posts are objectively. Then in 1287 she pushes him for doing the same thing. Her justification is that in the previous game it was in response to him being "scum read" while here he was the "de facto lynch", which is probably true. My issue with it is that even if this was a true statement, it isn't actually a valid justification. It's the same fucking mindset, regardless of if you're being scum read or seriously pressured, and in fact I would expect it to be the other way around: it'd be _more_ prevalent if you're under more pressure, not less. I think the justification she made was a complete afterthought, and so was her "reaching out" to him afterward, as I said before - you don't fucking reach out to someone who you think is practically confscum.

It absolutely is a valid justification as I explained. Exuding confidence when not under pressure is something I expected from townDwlee. Then when he was the de facto lynch, instead of doing what you're doing here, he whined and called everyone stupid. Instead of acting protown and giving reads or something, he just bitched about it. That's not something I expected from townDwlee. I don't understand why reaching out to a player you're scumreading is scummy, but there's really nothing to debate there.

I usually don't mind posts like this, but this actually is a scummy redirecting-conversation attempt. Someone getting a guilty doesn't just mean that everyone else needs to shut the fuck up and follow it immediately; there is nothing wrong with alternate conversation in the meantime as long as people acknowledge it in due time eventually. This reads more as an attempt to appear proactive and useful, without actually doing anything.

One of my favorite scumtells is when players avoid commenting on something like a guilty or a dayvig because they're unsure of how they're supposed to act. I tried to engage people into talking about the guilty on you to get them to react to it and see if it was fake or not. I was satisfied with pisskop's response, and Almost was catching up. It was not an attempt to shut down discussion at all.

Like, almost50 needs death bad. My vote is on that over a cop guilty. Yea that bad.
Plus Nicoles CONTENT though.

Still dunno. My brain says yes and my heart says no kinda thing.

Yeah Almost's posts are awful. He's trying to feed into the "look I'm posting crazy theories!" thing but under that mask he's not doing much of anything. But then he softclaims and while I hate softclaims, I don't expect him to use that as a crutch if he's scum.

Right.
I am your God now and we're doing what I say today or you commit deicide.
Any protective roles out there should be on Rob tonight. Then depending on what Rob answers to Mimi the town vig (obviously out there as there were three kills and if we have three scum kills Skull has some explaining to do) should or should not vig Mimi.
In the meanwhile we shall lynch scum; namely Pisskop.
I'm am your Lord. You are my servants. This is my will.

Gladiate: Pisskop

I sir, challenge you to a duel.

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I could totally see Mimi lying about the specifics of her role/wguerts trying to get another night result from her.

It's absolutely WIFOM for you to high effort it and then claim only town you would do that, since you were already planning your defense when you decided to high effort it.

This.

Maxous's entrance was pretty weak. Didn't drop any reads and instead asked a pointless question that I'm sure Nicole would have answered by now. Need to see actual content from there.

Plus BRantz was a scumfuck.

Mimi's stance of "You have to lynch me but let me post content first" to "Anyone who is scumreading me sucks" is super scummy. I just think she's really freaking good and the possibility of multiball helps as well.

After I flip, you'll be run up and forced to fullclaim, and then if you're town I can almost guarantee that someone will figure out some bullshit reason (either an oversight or role info) which explains what happened today which, if claimed today would have just cleared this up immediately.

That's the point I'm making.

You're not getting lynched today because of the gladiate. Why not let Rob have another night of results without being outted.

I'm sorry this week has been crazy for me. Looks like I will have to do another catchup post soon but I don't have time today either.

This is really hurting my overall read about you. I just might change my mind and visit you instead of grapes.

I don't lurk unless my real life commitments force me to. This was just one of those weeks.

Ok breaking and posting this now. Starting at the top of page 91 soon...

[Elyse]

I can't get over how people are fine with wgeurts' gladiate. We have a guilty on someone and she was at L-1...that is not the time to gladiate someone. It reeks of just trying to keep Mimi alive for one more night, ESPECIALLY because he's calling for a vig on her. Like...why couldn't we have lynched her and you called for a vig on pisskop?

Most of wgeurts' 2274 is good, but the way he went about the gladiate still doesn't make sense. Posting that first and then using the gladiator out of frustration would still be stupid, but it would at least make sense.

I'm considering just full claiming, but I'm not 100% sure.

Is your role gonna flip like Varsoon's?
If not, make sure you claim before the end of the day.
The last we want is you dying and leaving a vague guilty behind.

It bothers me that this is the only thing you decide to comment on.

But seriously if you protect someone with a claimed GUILTY on them, you're going down, hard.

If you copy all of your plays out of the textbook, no one will ever ask you to write one.

I like this.
pisskop's reaction to being gladiated after realizing it (finally) reads as genuine to me.
Nvm I don't like this string of posts:

I mean you understand he's pushingfor your death, not because of anything youve said, but because he claims to have a magic guilty he wont claim? And the only one who is apparently entertaining that his claim is faulty or was subverted is not-you.


pedit: sweet. I get to call him stupid for the rest of the day.


His case is full of shit. Lynching me is the laziest thing you guys can do.

Do you really want such a moron in charge and governing what lynhes will happen?

vote: wgeurts

I mean, look at the quality of th people who jumped for it as soon as it came around

He went from all "lol someone cop wgeurts and then if he's inno ignore him" to fighting the lynch. Not that I expect him to lay down and die, but it's a drastic change.

Im a conditional doc. Only girls

Hmmm.

Wgeurts has done this 1v1 despite a claimed guilty. That just doesn't parse. For some reason, he insists on the vig being used to kill Mimi, not the lynch. If there's a Mafia Doctor or even Jailkeeper floating around, that would explain this move. I can't think of any town motivation whatsoever to insist the claimed guilty is vigged instead of lynched.

This is key.

I've seen a townie pardon obvscum. Twice in the game iirc. There's a difference in the matter-of-fact de-facto anti-town impact of an action and determining whether you think it's a plausible course of action that player might take as town (and players have egos, and can be more worried about what they're doing than what else is going on.).

Pisskop's play lately has been dramatically better. But he was so deep in scumminess that that doesn't bring him anywhere near a player with a decent post history that used an obscure town power role incorrectly.



I want to point out that lesbian power bomber is an awful claim.

1. We have a commuter, which already thwarts kills.
2. It encourages massclaim, and the goal of all good setup design is to discourage massclaims (if skullduggery has a rep for designing shitty setups or if lesbian power bomber has been a common role around here lately regardless of that obvious flaw that might mitigate that, this is my first game in at least six months if not a year)
3. Homosexual characters tend to be unnamed nameless background characters in the more recent edition of Borderlands (my knowledge is limited though, I haven't played the first one nor some of the DLC on the second. The game seemed to go out of its way to share anecdotes involving homosexuals in some tapes you pick up in the Wilderness reserve and meet its "quota" without actually introducing a major homosexual character.) (Tannis tries to get into the pants of any character you play, so she's bi) (and a paedophile since DLC added an adolescent character) (let's not get into that)
4. Doctors tend to play a little more defensive and focus on townreads, the most charitable interpretations of pisskop's play have him as a player who is not afraid to risk his neck to piss people off and try to get a scummy reaction.
5. I think he would have targetted Titus (and succeeded) as lesbian power bomber.

pisskop's claim adds little value and he definitely doesn't become the more desirable lynch target by virtue of how he's played. Giving him a pass for this power role claim is extremely lazy mafia play. And if he's going to use it to protect people like YT in what may be a multiball I'm not sure the claim even suggests he's more useful than a VT.

Vote: pisskop

This is an awful post. It's basically a list of possibilities that you decide make pisskop scum.

You're right, a scum team probably doesn't have two protective roles. So more likely that we have {Mimi, pops, wguerts} and {Aafter, ???, ???} than {Mimi, pops, wguerts, Aafter} and an SK.

I don't think you're working in concert. I think you seriously misfired in talking about saying you had a jailkeep after the gladiator thing because you were worried I'd track you to protecting Mimi or something. You probably didn't get what wguerts was trying to do in setting up Mimi as the vig instead of the lynch.

Like, can you provide an alternate explanation of your claim that you want to protect a claimed guilty that actually makes sense? Because so far you've told me that you just want to be innovative or some shit, and that doesn't cut it. My explanation explains a lot more and seems way more likely than yours.

The two protective roles being gladiator and JK/Doc? In Anything Goes Mafia, there was a scum Gladiator and a JOAT which I believe had a doc shot. Not unheard of.

Did pops actually claim JK? I thought that was a joke.

I have not claimed

Ok nvm.

I guess I will suggest it again. Why not a bus driver? In the two large games I have run, not here but elsewhere, in order to balance either two faction of mafia or a large gambit of abilities a bus driver is suggested. This would mean that even though you targeted Nicole you got another. The mod would not have lied, but you would not have had any knowledge that you move got deflected.

I'm trusting Rob on this. For example, if he was a cop that got back Mimi was scum and he was bus driven, the PM would have to say "Result: Scum" or something. It couldn't say "Nicole Mimi Tithel is scum" because that would be a direct lie.

There were 3 kills last night. It's not hard to figure out how that resolves that discrepancy.

Why go with a maybe over a

claimed guilty

that we have a wagon about to be completed on? It makes zero sense.

From his PoV he seems 95% sure pisskop is scum and 95% sure he'll win the gladiation. There's a decent chance he could get NK'ed before getting to use his gladiation on what seems to him to be obvscum. He think Mimi is scum but she will die either way, but bringing his hard read on pisskop to fruition requires him to use his gladiation, while still alive.

It makes

sense

to me althought it's probably awful play.

Why would there be a decent chance wgeurts could be NK'd?

Pops + wgeurts + Nicole is making more and more sense. The gladiation timing, the defense of wgeurts by Pops, the guilty on Nicole, the scumminess of Pops not being addressed by Nicole.
Like look at Nicole's read on Pops

POPSOFCTOWN: I'm thoroughly meh on him. His push today re: Rob being a lyncher seems very not-what I'd expect of scum, and makes sense to me coming from town, and I've agreed with most of his positions (i.e. thinking TSO's slip was "valid enough" on D1 and his Elyse read today). None of it seems particularly unfakeable, though.

This is super generic reasoning to null read someone.

I agree with this, and I hate associative tells before flips.

But if it is actually multiball, though. YT and Mimi are scum on opposite teams confirmed.

Why?

But if you flip scum or don't flip at all, no, I'm not going to agree to full claim tomorrow, because I can continue using my ability in an attempt to find scum. Outing would only give more information for scum to tailor their fake claims. There's no point in giving that info out with no reason.

In reality, "not fullclaiming" is nowhere near as positive-utility as you seem to think it is. You severely overvalue keeping your role "secret", because "it can catch scum". In this situation, it absolutely is positive-utility to lay this info out sooner as opposed to later (and in this case it's not like I'm even telling you fullclaim right now, given the wgeurts-gladiate which would allow you one more result if you don't get NK'ed).

Do you actually expect to live any substantial amount in this game given you've made it completely obvious you're an investigative role. Kind of relevant but somewhat-unrelated question.

No, just no. Stop trying to get Rob to claim. Also, you doing all this shit under the guise of "I'm trying to prevent chain mislynches" is bullshit. No one is powerlynching Rob if you flip town. It's not as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.

Why are you so bent on him role-claiming?

We know he is a form of cop what do we lose by knowing what kind of cop? He said the one of the reasons was because it would discredit his guilty which is incredibly suspicious.

This is also awful. We lose a lot. What if he says, "I have a guilty on PerV" and PerV goes "I'm a miller" and he goes "lol I tracked you visiting the person who died last night." You aren't thinking things through like a townie should.

Is there anyone who is voting wguerts for pisskop's claim? There shouldn't be. He's obviously lying and I don't understand why I'm the only one pointing this out.

Why is he obviously lying? I mean the lesbian power bomber flavor is obviously a joke, but a doc that only protects female characters doesn't seem crazy to me.
I do agree the YT placeholder protect is weird af and definitely deserves scrutiny, but I don't see scumpisskop attacking other players when his only shot at surviving is going balls to the wall against wgeurts.

Rob - can you explain what scum-wguerts who is partners with Nicole was thinking? I don't see how his thought process comes from scum.

TSO pointing out the conclusion which obviously makes the most sense.

Which no one else so much as thought of because they're death-tunneling hard enough to think wgeurts would do something so blatantly obvious in order to save me for ... DERP

That's funny. In Anything Goes Mafia, there was a confirmed guilty on me, and my buddy used the gladiator shot, sparing me one day and ending up winning the game in LyLo.

So either wguerts is town and pisskop is ???, or they're both scum. In the latter case pisskop is still a better lynch, because we know wguerts is a scum-Gladiator, but we don't know what pisskop is.

No, I don't see how you came to this conclusion.

So either wguerts is town and pisskop is ???, or they're both scum. In the latter case pisskop is still a better lynch, because we know wguerts is a scum-Gladiator, but we don't know what pisskop is.

Or wguerts is scum and pisskop is town. How exactly isn't this a scenario where a scum gladiator thought they could get an easy lynch and use Mimi's night action once more.

I'm agreeing with a beeboy post...what is happening?

TSO has the ability to iso people, and yet here is he pretending to be pushing something meaningful.

Its so meanignful that everyone else is flat out ignoring his posts on the matter.

I do think you should quote them though...

Rob's 2642 is an excellent summary of my thoughts.

Rob - once Nicole flipped scum, he would be utterly doomed. You know that's true. By the end of d4 he would either have been investigated, lynched or vigged. The positive utility of Nicole surviving one solitary day is utterly eclipsed by Wguerts' almost certain death after her scumflip. And he wasn't even being scumread by many people.

Not really. Like I said before, my buddy did this same thing and won.
TSO's posts about wguerts being town are pinging me hard. I think this was a massively risky play from scum and it's backfiring spectacularly. A wguerts lynch would help a lot in discerning alignments.

UNVOTE:

I need to think more about what T S O said.

No, don't stop fighting the good fight! The most plausible action is that scum wanted Mimi to get another night action in, so wguerts used the gladiator on a player that would be super easy to lynch from his PoV. He made sure to call for a vig on Mimi and everything. It's not as bad as TSO is making it out to be. The mistake is that pisskop isn't as easy a lynch as they thought. I'm not even positive pisskop is town (though I am thinking he is) because the claim is weird, but I would much rather lynch wguerts.

Have you read the game, Suzune?

I don't like that you're discrediting Suzune rather than explaining why you think she's wrong.

I'm probably voting wgeurts btw.

Why? The main reason for wgeurts-scum relies on you being scum as well.

@Cool
Mimi is smart and realizes people are piecing together that wguerts could have used the gladiator to save her. I wouldn't put it past her to vote him to shake that suspicion.

I'll deal with this game before I go to bed tonight. Wguerts, what were you thinking?

I wanted to get someone dead that I've seen is a hell to actually get lynched in other games. Impulsive, yeah I guess. But nobody is discussing reads and pushing people and that's not helping anyone.

What made you think you would have the towncred to lynch someone who is supposedly hard to lynch?

like I cant believe hes pulling the 'lynch me if hes town shit'

youre a fucking gladiator whose head is swollen. you literally 1v1me and lost as a confirmed gladiator.

Lol this is so true.

Why are you so bent on him role-claiming?

I'm ngl, I think it's a bad decision. Damned if he is, damned if he don't as one might say... But he has a higher chance of remaining alive if he doesn't claim and if he doesn't give scum any unnecessary information.

The way you're going about this could easily be because you're wanting your scum partners to have more info after you are nk'd or lynched. Why should he trust you? Why should he trust that your intent is for the better?

I stand by Rob for now.

this is an impressive amount of waffling that says shag all.
you were also waffling about wguerts IIRC
first scum-read noted.

Look who finally has his first scumread!

If anyone protects Mimi though they'll basically be scum claiming later when they claim their role. If she is still alive by tomorrow we should lynch her anyway.

Why the fuck would anyone claim to have protected Mimi?

God fucking damn it.

Unvote:

I'm gonna sleep on it. Ciao.

There it is.

Page 91

With Rob's investigation only being 90% clean the gladiator isn't good but doesn't come off as a scum claim to me. I'm not thrilled but am also not devastated that we will have to handle the investigation later, but also with more information.

Depending on how much thread space the discussion is taking up I do think rob full claiming would benefit town, and remove the resistance on the mimi wagon that allowed this gladiate to happen in the first place. However, with what I have read so far, I think that should be done tomorrow since we can't lynch either today.

I was liking Flubbernugget until this post.

^god, we need to kill almost at some point.

what part of your role indicates we have the option to NL?

vote No Lynch

Dig the sauce, its stronger than youll ever have. vc show us nl

No.

I would say that ely is scum. Town ely is more involved. OC scum ely is too . . . but I dont like her slot.

I don't lurk as either alignment. You know this. I'll be active from here on out hopefully, but don't scumread me for that. I've had tons of shit going on.

I mean I did explicitly call her out, and she retreated into the shadows like some kind of ghoul.

I asked you three questions, which you ignored.

We do not no lynch.

wgeurts is what I would prefer, solely because my read on him is not multiball-proof whereas pisskop looks undeniably town regardless of whether he'd have scumhunting available as a part of his scum play.

I'm pretty set on this so I'm voting now, though I won't be ready for day to end until this evening when I have a chance to elaborate on/respond to some things in more depth.

As for tonight, vig being 50/50 on me/another person is the theoretically correct play, I think. Hopefully this will result in me being shot so you all start D3 with that info, if not, meh.

Vote: wgeurts

Hmmm.

because the worst designed role in mafia got a guilty

What?

K, TSO is scum. Add that to the list of things I need to accomplish.

Are you going to elaborate on this or no?

TSO is scum in no small part because of his treatment of me. He asks why people are even bothering to listen to what I say, yet he clearly read, understood, and _liked_ some of my posts, including my reads wall and my original point about wgeurts. His justification that "I'm confirmed scum and just trying to muddy the waters as much as I can" is ad-hoc, and contradicts his previously displayed (immutable) mindset that my posts _are_ worth reading on the 1% chance I flip town (which I will). I believe this was done because he's scrambling to lynch pisskop over wgeurts for strategic reasons, saw pops engaging with me, and felt like he had to make up a reason to keep pops in his desired position.

Another reason is that his push on pisskop itself is nonsensical, which is a large part of why I can empathize with the way pisskop reacted to it.

I'm somewhat surprised you think I would give the slightest fuck how I look, since no matter what happens I'm dead by the end of tomorrow at latest. I'm at least going to make a splash on my way out.

I agree with this, especially in a possible multiball scenario where scum shouldn't be totally ignored.

I'm attempting to reread the thread, and came across Elyse's only providing reads in the thread and there are more scum reads than town reads provided. So, Elyse, when you get the chance, can you provide a more thorough list in which the majority is NOT scum?

I'm looking for town reads and scum reads, and I'll try to provide a new list before long, but it'll likely take a while given how fast the game is moving.

I am going to grab dinner but when I come back I will post a full reads list (even though I hate them) so everyone knows where my head is at.

VOTE: wgeurts

All caught up! Be back in like an hour for a reads list + any questions directed at me.

[Elyse]

Here are my reads.

02 Rob13 - Town
03 Nicole Mimi Tithel - Scum
05 beeboy - Unsure. There are so many things that make him scummy but then a few things make me go "there's no way that could be scum"
06 YT2980 - Scum lean. He's seemed to fade into the background whilst not lurking or anything...I'm keeping my eye out here.
07 I_Am_Not_Varsoon* - Null
08 T S O - Scum
09 PeregrineV - Town
11 Suzune - Town
12 Maxous - Scum
13 CooLDoG - Town lean
14 Flubbernugget - Town lean
15 Venmar - Probably town
16 grapes - Town
17 wgeurts - Scum
18 Almost50 - Scum
20 Nero Cain - Could be scum, he's not doing anything
21 Elyse
22 popsofctown - Scum
23 pisskop - Probably town
24 SirCakez - Town

That's probably too many scumreads but it's how I feel.

[Elyse]

Yes mostly

[Elyse]

05 beeboy - Unsure. There are so many things that make him scummy but then a few things make me go "there's no way that could be scum"

What are the things that make you go "no way he could be scum"?

Mostly his actions surrounding the Dwlee wagon. I just don't see why, as scum, he'd put himself out there so much over someone he could easily lynch. And him flopping twice like he did almost goes into the "too scummy to be scum" category, but more likely that he doesn't give a fuck how he is perceived, which I think is townie.

@TSO
I've thought about that. My scumread on you is mostly due to the fact that I don't think you actually believe in what you're fighting for right now. What is your response to the fact that my scumbuddy gladiated a townie they thought they could lynch when there was a guilty on me and ended up winning the game? Your declarations of "wguerts is town" are really strange to me. I don't think you actually think that. The question is why you are taking that stance.

You also fit nicely with wguerts scum as well. A Mimi/TSO/wguerts/pops team seems way too good to be true though lol.

[Elyse]

Stop being such a fucking whiner because no one is feeding into your bullshit.

[Elyse]

@Mimi
I'm not buddying Rob. In my catchup post people, ROB INCLUDED, were unvoting and starting to consider not lynching wgeurts and I want to keep that momentum going. I'm going to do everything in my power to get wgeurts lynched because I think he's scum.

I also find it funny how when I post my big long catchup posts, and am finally here and the same time as you, you don't even attempt to engage with me. AND I'M YOUR BIGGEST SCUMREAD.

What the hell is that about?

I also don't want anyone to hammer until TSO responds to me.

[Elyse]

I also find it funny how when I post my big long catchup posts, and am finally here and the same time as you, you don't even attempt to engage with me. AND I'M YOUR BIGGEST SCUMREAD.

OK, let's engage. what is the purpose of this post if i'm supposedly confirmed scum?

you're doing the same thing here you did when you "reached out" to dwlee d1

This is such bullshit. You're caterwauling about how everyone treating you as confscum is stupid and can't scumhunt, but then say I'm scummy for trying to talk with you. Unlike you, I don't put someone in a box labeled scum and never speak to them again.

btw Elyse, if you want engagement, here's another point: you're blatantly talking out of both sides of your mouth re: this Rob/me shitfight. in your first wall when it first happened you said something along the lines of "why are you questioning Rob, we lynch Mimi and if she flips town we lynch Rob next". you then critique me because i've just assumed people will inevitably lynch Rob after i flip.

???

and don't try to bullshit around this by saying something like "you have a guilty on you, it wouldn't have mattered anyway". i think you were forcing the whole "just stop trying to get Rob to claim" in order to (again) buddy up to him.

Yeah I first posted that during my catch up, but now I feel differently. I won't try to power lynch Rob if you flip town. I don't see him handling this the way he did if he was scum. And I don't want him to claim for reasons I've already stated. I've read your posts. I disagree. Obviously if you're town, you know something went wrong, but I think you're 99% scum and I'm not going to advocate your plan. The correct play is to lynch you and keep Rob alive to possibly get another result without fullclaiming. He can fullclaim if you flip town, but not before then.

My scumread on you is mostly due to the fact that I don't think you actually believe in what you're fighting for right now.

I really have no idea why you think this, to be honest. I believe quite strongly that wguerts is town. What I don't believe strongly is that pisskop is scum. I don't believe his claim at all, but ever since Maxous pointed out that it's possible he's just town lying to stay alive I've been seeing that as a very viable play for pisskop-town. I just didn't consider it at all before Maxous brought it up. His attack on me sucks, but he's been paranoid as fuck of me ever since Nacho and me beat him as scum in a Newbie, so there's that. His lurking is null, his insulting is also sadly null, his refusal to respond to my accusations is just him being a stubborn fuck.. without the claim I really am not as confident in pisskop-scum as I was.

I don't care about your read on pisskop. Your strong townread on wgeurts is not justified. I feel like you chose that side and are continuing to fight for it because you have to, not because you think you're right.

What is your response to the fact that my scumbuddy gladiated a townie they thought they could lynch when there was a guilty on me and ended up winning the game?

Your scumbuddy was clearly a far better player than Wguerts. What's your point? Wguerts would never endgame after this stunt in a million years.

My point is that it has been done before, so acting like it's some absurd possibility is wrong. And yes wgeurts wouldn't endgame, but that's because he miscalculated. It doesn't meant the intent isn't there.

Your declarations of "wguerts is town" are really strange to me. I don't think you actually think that. The question is why you are taking that stance.

I'll point you back to the post I made about mapping out the scenario where wguerts-scum gets away with this play without major suspicion. Producing a single game where your scumbuddy pulled it off doesn't qualify as a response, by the way.

Your scenario is just plain wrong. It is MUCH more likely that Mimi has a night action that scum want to use and wgeurts thought it would be easy to use the gladiator and just call for a vig on Mimi. Pisskop was the most universal scumread at this point in time, and he thought it would be an easy lynch. The motivation to do it TODAY rather than tomorrow is only there in my scenario.

You also fit nicely with wguerts scum as well. A Mimi/TSO/wguerts/pops team seems way too good to be true though lol.

I would be surprised if there were even two scum in this pool, Elyse.

I wouldn't be.

[Elyse]

I have no idea why you think I would choose this side if I was scum with wguerts, for starters. I would bus him into the ground. But I have no way of proving that aside from it being the obvious play for scum-TSO, so I suppose the point is moot. I still have no idea why you think my townread on wgeuerts isn't justified, though, and you don't seem very keen on explaining why. I have explained it numerous times so far and I have been highly vocal about it.

It's not justified because the hoops you're jumping through to get to that townread are ridiculous.

I was Guiltied n1 in Delicious Mafia II and convinced the town to lynch someone else anyway. Miraculous plays happen, but I don't bring that play up as an example often because it's an outlier. Just like your example is.

As far as wguerts miscalculating goes - no. When Nicole flips scum tomorrow and we see her night action, then wguerts gets fucking hammered by everyone because there's clear scum intent in allowing her to carry out this action for another night. This is the crux of the point I'm trying to make. There isn't anything to miscalculate because there isn't any way for wguerts to escape from this play without dying or being investigated. Once Nicole flipped then his play is highly suspect, and Nicole's flip is guaranteed.

Or he could be like, "I didn't know that would happen! Nicole was confscum and instead of wasting a lynch on her, I thought it'd be better to lynch pisskop and vig her." I'm not saying he wouldn't draw scrutiny - it was a terrible move regardless of alignment - but wgeurts doesn't seem too bent out of shape about it because his goal of letting Nicole make it one more night is probably happening.

The fact that you responded with this makes me question whether you have read the game. I haven't provided any scenario. Rather, I have pointed out that there isn't any realistic scenario in my eyes where wguerts is scum. I've asked the people accusing wguerts of being scum to map out the scenario, since the burden of proof is on them to explain the scenario where wguerts-scum makes this play.

I was referring to this:

Nicole was the de facto lynch today. Wguerts disrupted that. It's a highly, highly suspect action even if pisskop flips scum. Someone will take action to sort him out, by death or by investigative PR. When she flipped scum, he would be the number one suspect for her partner. It's a poor play as scum.

I agree that as either alignment it's a subpar play. But I cannot, cannot, cannot imagine wguerts doing it as scum. As town, maybe. Somehow he twisted the idea in his head until it made sense. But not as scum.

So, in the wonderful optimal world of wgeurts-scum, he gets his mislynch, Nicole gets her night action, Nicole gets lynched, and... when we see her flip and night action, what do we do then? We point our fingers at wguerts for enabling Nicole to carry out this action that so greatly benefits scum, and he's fucked. Where is the scum motivation for this? The only time that scum would be willing to make this play would be if Nicole's night action was so powerful that it was worth wguerts sacrificing himself for. I see no night action that comes close to this standard, so I don't see that as a possibility.

I'm not arguing it's a smart move. Either way the level of incompetence is the same, but the motivation is much higher if wgeurts is scum. I don't know how you don't see this.

[Elyse]

No it's not.

He can just do it tomorrow.

[Elyse]

Can we end this already

[Elyse]

VOTE: Nicole Mimi Tithel

scum: mimi, beeboy, sirkaykes, grapes, yt in that order.

Talk to me about Cakez and grapes. The others I agree with. Beeboy gives me some reservations though.

Nero could very well be scum as well. But I had a change of heart after reviewing his posts again.

Why
Nvm you answered later. Shitty answer though. You basically asked Suzune if what you were thinking was ok.

i'm not claiming, live with the burden of it. it isn't like anyone gives even the slightest fuck anyway.

lol

Fairly sure the nightkills point to multiball + SK. None of those make any sense as a vig shot.

Agree with this. That means at least one of them was hunting scum with the Aafter shot since that seemed like a vig shot to me.

Elyse > TSO methinks.

She has been a quiet, albeit crucial part of back-to-back mislynches. The majority of her votes are now either confirmed town, or people I feel certain about, and that makes me think she's either a horrible town player... Or she's scum. The latter sounds more feasible.

Both mislynches I was on were good lynches. I don't have any regrets and would have lynched both of them again had the same situation arisen. I think it's people who were hesitant on one when they shouldn't have been are where to look. I didn't need to push hard for either of those lynches as scum because they were going through anyway. But I made sure of it because I thought they were scum.

Also that's a bullshit reason anyway since this is multiball.

Elyse is a good bet. I have never seen her so disengaged and she rolled of my case by saying she was satisfied with the answers she received.

You know I like playing scum better so why would I be disengaged?

I know it means nothing to you, but Elyse's writing voice is different this game and that pings me as odd. Something is off.

I actually think this is a valid statement.

Wtf does this mean
And beeboy you've never played with me before soooo

So given that there are 16 players alive, a mere scum member has vanished, and town has lost 7 players, what is the likely town-scum ratio now? Is 11-5 a good bet? If so, we best tread carefully from here on out, esp. with the knowledge that there are three likely anti-town nk's.

Oooh look! Unhelpful, pointless setup spec that makes it look like YT is doing something!

So given that there are 16 players alive, a mere scum member has vanished, and town has lost 7 players, what is the likely town-scum ratio now? Is 11-5 a good bet? If so, we best tread carefully from here on out, esp. with the knowledge that there are three likely anti-town nk's.

When Nicole flips scum it'll be 10-2-2-1. We basically need to chain lynch scum or we lose. Even if we chain lynch, we require scum to crosskill.

Scumslip. How do you know it'll be 2-2-1? Why not 3-1-1? TSO dies next.

When Nicole flips scum it'll be 10-2-2-1. We basically need to chain lynch scum or we lose. Even if we chain lynch, we require scum to crosskill.

What makes you think both teams are equally sized at the size of 3 and Nicole is not on the scum team aAfter was on?

You seem confident on the oddest info you have to be scum.

Thank you beeboy.

Cooldog is probably scum with nicole.

Him coming right out and voting her had the look of a distancing attempt.

Yeah voting someone with a guilty is totally distancing YT is setting up lynches in the future with bullshit comments like these.

lynch TSO with hellfire after i flip town.

please, please, please do not forget this read.

Gotchu gurl. If if make it that is. I seem to be a consensus scumread for no reason :/

Flubbernugget could be the SK I suppose? Would explain why he's been so quiet and relatively in the background.

Then again, I guess anyone could be it, lol. So I best not speculate. Flubbernugget, you need to provide a bit more content if you're town.

THIS IS SO SCUM. LIKE WHAT EVEN IS THIS POINTLESS SPECULATIVE BULLSHIT

Really? You don't want your faction to win the game. That could be ridiculously petty, though I think it's insinuates that you're scum.

ok we are lynching this thing asap

I was also told Maxous was a Vault Hunter last night. Probably means he is a Friendly Neighbor

I don't think he's a friendly neighbor.

Also yeah I agree Elyse is off this game. She is normally much more aggressive as town from what I've seen of her.

Ah. A reason for a scumread on me! I think this is mostly boiled down to the fact that I've been constantly catching up and I'm usually more aggressive when interacting with people. I do think I was with Dwlee at the beginning and pushed wgeurts at the end yesterday but both were town lol.

Here's how a data scanner could be useful for scum. Say somebody crumbs their roleclaim, and all the data has to do with roles and data pertaining to them. It gives scum an easier road map perhaps for their kills. How is that NOT beneficial?

How is no one else commenting on YT's awful filler posts?

there's like no reason to end the day yet. I'm betting that most of the votes on Mimi are scum wanting town cred for being on Mmi early.

I don't see this.

p-edit @SirCakez, I wonder if he was a cover kill by the SK? You are correct that Aafter did not do much. This might have been to not case early suspicion.

Then why would they kill someone who was obv not a vig shot last night?

Nobody hammer UNTIL everybody has chipped in this day phase. If you do, I'm taking that as a scum claim.

Look at me being protown!!

I feel fairly confident that at least one of beeboy or TSO is scum because why would all of scum be lurkers and super quiet? That doesn't make one bit of sense, hence why one of them if not both is likely to flip scum.

So, TSO and beeboy, what are your ranks of all the players from most likely to least likely to flip scum?

This is so arbitrary. Why TSO and beeboy? Are they the only active players? What does a town to scum list from them accomplish?

I believe mimi needs to be

policy lynched

or rob needs to full claim

Curious choice of words.
Why "policy lynched" instead of lynched?
what alignment do you think she's flipping?

This is a nice catch.

I do not understand, why is everyone claiming. We give the mafia more power over us when we claim without reason and without a catch.

Who is "everyone"? Almost?

TSO, Almost, YT, pops, Nero is my main pool right now.

[Elyse]

Wtf does this mean

It means your phrasing and writing voice is different. You know when you read something from someone and it has a particular style. How everyone has a unique style. This game, the posts do not sound like you. The syntax is strange. They also usually sound a certain way.

OK...

You know I like playing scum better so why would I be disengaged?

How precisely do I know this? I have never played with you as scum? In both girls power game and that terrible one I subbed into you were town.

I figured you would know how I play as both alignments before casting judgements on my engagement based on meta.

Then why would they kill someone who was obv not a vig shot last night?

Little chance it would get traced back to them?

But then that would ruin the whole point of them pretending to be a vig.

[Elyse]

Catching up tonight...again...

[Elyse]

There was a hammer already so you gotta be quick if you want to get in today

smh

whyyyyy

I literally blocked thirty minutes out of my schedule just now so I can open the thread for the game I'm modding. I don't have time before tonight.

[Elyse]

Unvote right fucking now

[Elyse]

Everyone

[Elyse]

Scum have the numbers and are trying to push a mislynch

[Elyse]

If you seriously think this unanimous flash wagon this late into the game is on scum then you're fucking trash

[Elyse]

I made a reply during the night so I wouldn't have to re-catch up. I'll post it now.

P-edit:
Shut the fuck up and let me post some content.

I haven't seen one person post a justified scumread on me.

[Elyse]

Of fucking course grapes was a universal encryptor

P-edit: why the fuck not

[Elyse]

Ok so I am Claptrap, a conditional miller neighborizer. Every night I high-five someone. If they accept it, they join my neighborhood and I lose my miller status. I am not a miller as long as someone is in my hood. I neighborized grapes N1, PerV N2, and Maxous N3. Only grapes (so far) was successful. I will post a summary of what we talked about at night. I wanted to use this role to get investigatives in my hood and then I could give their results. Otherwise it's a pretty useless role. I mean the mechanic is cool but there's nothing that useful about it.

I posted a catchup in the hood and got mod permission to quote it the thread but since grapes was a universal encryptor, I can't quote a locked thread. I am working on re-editing it now.

I also asked the mod like 8 different ways if Mimi would have shown up guilty to a gunsmith and didn't get an answer. We need to figure that out before we lynch anyone. At this point, it's clear that scum have the numbers and they need to start crosskilling. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that I'm not scum after multiple people who are consensus scumreads are avoided just to jump on me. FOR NO REASON. The scumreads on me are not justified whatsoever, which I address in my catchup. Posting that now...

grapes wanted to lynch TSO btw.

VOTE: T S O

for grapes. I'm also very sure he is scum. As is YT. And like everyone at this point. Nero, Flubber, probably Suzune. Probably Cakez and Rob since they're not dead.

P-edit:
I want you to explain all of those Rob.

[Elyse]

YT's reaction to me calling him out is awful. He flails and then says "I genuinely believe Elyse is scum" which reads to me as scum who thinks I'm scum with another faction.

I do NOT like this hammer, though I'm reluctant to toss pisskop into my scum pile.

So what's the point of even saying this then

It would make sense for all of scum to jump on her wagon since why not? They might think it brings more town credibility.

Anyone would jump on the Mimi wagon. She had an apparent guilty on her.

This is an aside, but even though I was on three mislynches, all three of them were completely justified. Dwlee lied, wgeurts made an idiotic play that had more scum than town motivation, and Mimi had a guilty on her. I would vote all of them again in a heartbeat. Scum is in the people who were hesitant to associate themselves with these lynches.

Yeah I could see Elyse putting Nicole at L-1 discretely to be scum-motivated. Set it up so she could self hammer or something.

Really? Now you're just making up reasons.

I don't really know what to say regarding Rob and the false guilty. I still don't think he lied, but a bus driver would have had to say "result: gun" or something.

I love how YT gave out random reads with no reasons attached at the end of the day to look town!

Ok people keep being all "Elyse is scum for sure" and literally only SirCakez has given a legit reason and it's attributed to me not being as active as I'd like. It would be nice if people could read my content and see that I'm actually town. There's like a weird groupthink in this game and for some reason me being scum is a common opinion and it's pissing me off.

@anyone scumreading anyone for being on the Mimi wagon
stop. just stop

Wait yeah TSO and Elyse are the two people Almost "cleared"
That can't be a coincidence.

You're not this bad.

Almost's attempts at being town leader are so scummy because he keeps putting off actual content. As are his strong townreads on TSO and me for not performing a kill one night. If his info is accurate, it does mean neither of us are SKs though. Unless it's an odd night SK or something.

The pops/pisskop interaction makes pops look good and pisskop look bad.

Almost is basically confirmed town. There's no way that he makes that play as scum.

Ehhh I was going back and forth on this too. I find that town PRs are much more likely to use their roles as a crutch and Almost seems to be doing that. But the claim was out of the blue and unwarranted, and his townreads on us don't make sense. While this isn't more likely to come from scum or town, I don't see how he is "confirmed town."

Elyse, who seemed to develop a scumread on me almost exactly as Nicole asked for the two of us to be lynched

Ooh this is bad. It also makes you more likely to be scum because you're viewing it as you vs me and if you were town, you would know that if you were lynched first, it wouldn't help me.

Like, I'm seeing people talking about then both being in a 2-member scum ream, which is astonishing. So I targeted the exact two of the 2-members team on particularly the nights when the other was doing the kill?? WHAT are the chances?

Ok this makes me feel better about Almost. I mean this is wrong but now it makes sense where he was coming from.

Elyse dies tomorrow, no exception. She's scum. Town does not and should not maintain more scum reads than town reads, or that's just shitty.

Lol this is just a lie. Before you start making things up to support your sudden "strong" scumread on me after I called you out, you should check to make sure they're true.

And since Dwlee showcased such a high quality of play during his time with us, and flipped town, it follows that his reads must have all been right.

What a fucking horrible post.

I will delay lynching you one day if you help me lynch YT. ty in advance

I was more certain of Almost being scum at the time. She's moved up into my top lynch targets though because she keeps doing catchup then disappearing. I really need to see her interact with people.

Do you think this is a purposeful scum tactic from me? Like I understand not being able to give me a solid townread for that, but I don't understand a solid scumread at all.

P-edit:
grapes was successful, PerV was killed, and idk if Maxous was successful yet.

I want you to explain your three townreads Rob.

@Cakez
Hold on I will answer you.

[Elyse]

02 Rob13
05 beeboy
06 YT2980
08 T S O
11 Suzune
12 Maxous
14 Flubbernugget
18 Almost50
20 Nero Cain
21 Elyse
22 popsofctown
24 SirCakez

Of this list I am town, and I was townreading Rob, beeboy, Suzune, Maxous, Almost, and Cakez. The continued survival of Rob, Cakez, and Suzune makes me doubt that because they are near-universal townreads. Rob I understand because of the false guilty shit but I don't know why people like Venmar, Cooldog, and pisskop were killed over Cakez and Suzune. That's my issue. I don't want to push them today but my townreads are not as strong as they were.

TSO is obv scum. As is YT from my PoV and I don't understand townreads on him at all. Flubber and Nero are PoV scum. Pops got better at the end of the day yesterday.

So yeah like I get that I'm not some super townie or anything but they everyone is just fine with lynching me just because should WAKE YOU UP and realize I'm not scum.

I want to lynch T S O today but would be fine with YT, Flubber, and Nero as well.

P-edit:
YT if you really are town,

you need to stop being butthurt that I am scumreading you and not let it affect your read on me.

You are going to lose the game if you're town. (inb4 I get lynched for reaching out to a scumread)

P-edit again:
ily

VOTE: YT

[Elyse]

*the fact that everyone is fine with lynching me "just because" should...

P-edit: lol

I crumbed it somewhere. I will find it. I just didn't think a claim was necessary because it was conditional and anyone in my hood could vouch for me.

[Elyse]

M

aybe

I

l

ike have a life.

E

ver consider that? My world doesn't

r

evolve around MS.

(yes this was a shitty crumb)

[Elyse]

The l in life too

[Elyse]

Cool. I admit that post came out weird. I just basically feel like Elyse is tunneling just a little too much.

On who????

All right. I think Elyse's claim + wagon reaction is very townie. Want to see the catchup that you referred to though.
P-Edit: I can buy that.

I posted it in 2224.

[Elyse]

Cool. I admit that post came out weird. I just basically feel like Elyse is tunneling just a little too much.

On who????

All right. I think Elyse's claim + wagon reaction is very townie. Want to see the catchup that you referred to though.
P-Edit: I can buy that.

I posted it in 2224.

On me. Like every post of yours is constantly pitted against my gameplay from recollection.

Still catching up with what's being said on this page.

I don't know how you can say that I've tunneled you when I literally have not voted you until this page.

[Elyse]

So if you get lynched what happens? There's a no lynch or we lynch someone else?

[Elyse]

That also sounds like a scum role

[Elyse]

VOTE: T S O

Hopefully scum will deal with YT. He can't be on both teams and he's probably too dangerous for the team(s) he's not on to keep around. His "crumbs" seem legit.

[Elyse]

VOTE: T S O

Hopefully scum will deal with YT. He can't be on both teams and he's probably too dangerous for the team(s) he's not on to keep around. His "crumbs" seem legit.

There is no way that YT is a Scum 1-shot Unlynchable. That would be completely broken, especially in Kingmaker situations. Either you think he's lying scum, or he's town, but the middle ground you're standing in here is clearly false.

Well I don't want to lynch him

[Elyse]

grapes final reads btw:

Town
Beeboy
Rob
Maxous (weird but town)
Elyse
pops (mehtown)
SirCakez (leaning, but uses by the book reasoning)

Null
YT (said he was gonna leave him alone for a little)
Suzune (was townreading early on, but is now echoing what everyone else is saying)
Flubbernugget (not playing like someone who wants to make it to endgame, not sure why he's being ignored)

Scum
T S O
Almost
Nero

P-edit:
I would rather lynch you TSO but I am fine with Nero.

[Elyse]

I think Almost is telling the truth about his role at the very least. I think he's town, though it could be a scum role I guess, but I don't doubt his claim. The way he was like "Elyse maybe I'll visit you tonight hur hur hur" and his poorly justified townreads on TSO and me because he thought we were a team both make sense. I mean, his conclusions are poor, but I at least see what he was thinking.

If he does flip scum it's safe to say TSO probably isn't on his team. (and me) I don't see him faking the whole "I'm going to check TSO and Elyse to see if one submits a kill because they're probably on the same team" if he was scum with TSO. (or me) Maybe if he was on the other scumteam or if he was town, but pretty sure he's not on the same scumteam as TSO.

P-edit:
I never really thought about it from that PoV. Here TSO says it has to be a town role, and Rob says it's antitown.

[Elyse]

Wait

I want a full claim from Almost

[Elyse]

@Almost

Are you a tracker?

[Elyse]

Sounds like an SK role more than a scum role, but yeah, definitely anti-town. If it is town, it's strongly negative utility both because it's likely town would take two goes at lynching it upon a claim. It's equivalent to two near-guaranteed mislynches, and that doesn't really balance in any setup (or at least isn't desirable).

However, it is much much harder for town to deal with it (if YT is scum) given that the consensus is we have no Vig. Even if we did, there's no guarantee that they would not have been killed early in the game, so that would've left us stuck with an unlynchable scum.

This is a good point

[Elyse]

Elyse - I'm curious to know why you decided to crumb 1000 posts into the game, rather than immediately.

Because I'm scum who decided to claim miller 1000 posts into the game.

Dumb question trying to spread doubt on me.

@Maxous
I targeted you because I thought you were town and wouldn't get NK'd and was unsure if a friendly neighbor and neighborizer would be in the same game. But I guess so since they have very different mechanics.

[Elyse]

Your stance regarding wgeurts vs pisskop was awful, and your behavior regarding Mimi at the end of the day was also really bad. You rode on the credit of getting Dwlee lynched, but have done nothing since then.

[Elyse]

Elyse - I'm curious to know why you decided to crumb 1000 posts into the game, rather than immediately.

Because I'm scum who decided to claim miller 1000 posts into the game.

Dumb question trying to spread doubt on me.

Nice deflection of pressure back at me. Answer the question.

Like I already said, I didn't know if I was going to claim or not since it's a conditional miller and I eventually decided to crumb at that point. Bad question.

Your stance regarding wgeurts vs pisskop was awful

I'd love to hear you explain why.

You defied all logic to call them both town and it seemed as if you had insider knowledge when coming to your conclusions. Like I don't see how an uninformed townie could have looked at that situation analyzed it the way you did.

Gtg will respond later.

[Elyse]

1. I already explained that. I was debating full out claiming or breadcrumbing and I decided just to crumb. That's it.
2. It was a bad question.
3. I absolutely called out your stance on wgeurts and we argued about it. Do you not remember this???
4. You ignored Mimi in twilight unless she called you scum, which reads as worried scum when someone who genuinely thought she was scum wouldn't give a shit.
5. I don't think there has been a game we've played together where you haven't been more involved than I am, ever. Lol @ you trying to use that against me. I know you're not this bad as town.
6. You have had multiple instances of weird insider knowledge, such as insisting it will be 2-2-1 after Mimi flips scum.
7. You've posted all of these reads on players but aren't doing jack shit with them. You know you won't be touched by a nightkill and are trying to push lurker lynches to survive.

[Elyse]

I'm pushing lynches on scum. Scum who is part of the larger scum faction. I've also laid out my reads. You're pushing a shitty lynch on me with poorly-defined reasons because you thought it would be an easy lynch to push through.

Didn't you just say you were a hard lynch and prime for being crosskilled?

hahaha

I will respond to the rest later. I have shit to do today.

[Elyse]

Maxous accepted my high five! Now he can read the hood.

[Elyse]

Did anyone claim flavor and I missed it o.o

Yes I am Claptrap.

[Elyse]

Dunno try getting someone to interact with me tonight if you want to test that.

@elyse can you do it?

Sure.

I would shoot TSO.

The point of scum commuting every night would be to prevent a crosskill on you.

[Elyse]

The universal encryptor just died soooo

[Elyse]

Elyse what are your thoughts on Nero?

I think he could be scum. I would rather lynch TSO today because I'm almost positive he's scum. Nero hasn't been a presence in this game and has given me no reason to townread him. I don't see why people choose him over Flubber though. They're pretty much the same to me. :/

[Elyse]

Almost, on Night 2 I targeted PeregrineV with a high-five. I sent it into the mod and he said action received and everything. Grapes and I discussed who to invite and chose PerV. Maxous can verify this because he has access to the PT now.

So either one of us was roleblocked or you're lying.

I think the first option is very unlikely considering you didn't even claim at the time and there was no reason to RB me.

VOTE: Almost50

[Elyse]

Also after I claimed, did you not wonder why you weren't high-fived? I just don't buy that.

[Elyse]

Why Suzune?

Pops and Almost have bizarre claims. I think we should go there first. TSO's role is an easy fakeclaim.

If you do give a reason to lynch Suzune first, Pops or Almost should hammer.

[Elyse]

Added bonus of lynching Almost: if he somehow flips town, we know that me, TSO, and Nero aren't the SK.

[Elyse]

If you think Almost isn't scum, that also means that I am scum with Maxous, Cakez, and Suzune since they both confirmed his friendly neighbor message and Maxous can confirm the hood if he already hasn't.

The presence of a 4 person scumteam intact at this point when two of them were keen to vote me at the beginning of today is infinitesimal. So Almost is scum.

[Elyse]

I'm not a masonizer

[Elyse]

What does that even mean? Wouldn't that support my claim - if it wasn't possible for me to neighborize you?

[Elyse]

I got the PM that he was town. So he's confirmed town to me and should be to everyone else really.

Hmm. So either {Elyse, Maxous, SirCakez} is a scum group* or A50 is scum? Bah. In that case, I have to go with A50 scum, obviously.

*Because Maxous and Elyse have claimed to be in a neighborhood and Cakez verified Maxous is town.

Note that Elyse and A50 could still be scum together, but Elyse would have to be a Mafia Neighborizer if A50 is scum and lying about his role.

Either way, yeah, I don't think Elyse could be lying about neighborizer if it would require Maxous and SirCakez to be scum as well.

It's a good idea for scum to shoot something in that group to verify it's not all one big scum group skating past all of us for the win.

I'm going to vote A50 after I read through the rest of these pages and verify it isn't hammer.

Suzune also received the PM so her too.

What does that even mean? Wouldn't that support my claim - if it wasn't possible for me to neighborize you?

Nope. A neighbourizer CAN neighbourize anyone. A Masonizer can't masonize non-town players. Look it up on the wiki page (both in the Neighbourizer page)

So you're trying to argue that I'm lying because you're not town...? lol

[Elyse]

I think A50 is scum who knows his claim contradicts my actions and claimed third party to try to survive.

[Elyse]

^what?

VOTE: Suzune

[Elyse]

Cakez did you get my high five?

[Elyse]

Why would someone roleblock me

[Elyse]

Beeboy I thought you claimed auto commuter. As in every night

I'm still suspicious of Suzune's claim.

[Elyse]

Yeah I know. Gladiator + Supersaint
I know everything seems to be in pairs. It is the two of the same that interest me.

Sigh...
I think this will just escalate things eyen further but I am only a eyen night commuter.
I just didn't want people to waste actions on me/ be nked.

Yeah he did, odd.

I missed this

[Elyse]

The issue I have with that is that it would be bastard if Skull told Rob that Mimi was guilty when she wasn't.

[Elyse]

Flubber, was your PM worded "Nero Cain is not vanilla" or "Result: Not vanilla" or something like that

[Elyse]

Mod won't answer that. That confirms Suzune has a modifier.

@Mod
If someone is loved, will they lost that mechanic in LyLo? If so, will they be told when this happens?

[Elyse]

Why Rob over Flubber or Nero?

[Elyse]

I get that but the same situation is happening with Nero and Flubber.

The mod's answer should clear some stuff up.

[Elyse]

I get that but the same situation is happening with Nero and Flubber.

Who is Rob 1\/1ing with his claim?
Lea\/ing Flubber and Nero for later gi\/es us the chance that night kills will sort them for us

I meant that both Flubber and Rob have results on people that supposedly incorrect. We don't know about Nero though. I was wondering why Rob over Flubber.

[Elyse]

Nero, I'm ready to be with you on Robscum, but I don't see how you aren't going after Flubber. Why can't Rob also be redirected?

In a nutshell I think both could be scum but I'm worried that the preference of Rob over Flubber means Rob is on the Hyperion team.

[Elyse]

Yes, but if we lynch Hyperion and then two non-other scumteam people are killed, we lose.

[Elyse]

Assuming it's 3-3-1-1

[Elyse]

You're that sure Rob is scum?

[Elyse]

Can we test Suzune's loved claim first

[Elyse]

I want to lynch Suzune or Rob today.

Suzune's whole "please let me clarify if anything is wrong " attitude is rubbing me the wrong way. She seems like cautious scum because her claim has her on the ropes.

It would be excellent if Rob could hammer her and she supersaints him. I'm with Nero in that his night actions are pretty pitiful coming from town.

I'm hoping Nero/Flubber will be dealt with at night.

[Elyse]

Rob, why are you saying redirector is ruled out as a possibility? I'm pretty sure the mod said redirection results in the format "Hello Kitty has a gun" if you target Hello Kitty and get redirected to Scarface. That would be the dominating possibility, then, right?

No the mod said it would be "Scarface has a gun"

[Elyse]

What does that have to do with your claim

[Elyse]

One thing that bugs me is Rob's "If you think I'm scum I would hammer Suzune so putting her to L-1 is stupid". Like...you will also die from that???

[Elyse]

So wait how is Rob town? The game should be totally bastard from his PoV and yet he hasn't replaced out.

This is why I think having Suzune supersaint him is the best option.

[Elyse]

But if people don't want to lynch Suzune I'm fine with just lynching Rob

[Elyse]

So what is it? 2-1-1-1? So literally everyone else is scum

[Elyse]

So we need to find Cakez's team.

[Elyse]

Not sure if I see Flubber giving that result on Nero if he's acting alone.

That might be the best place to look. Wagon analysis will also help in looking at where Cakez was willing and not willing to go.

[Elyse]

Ayyy now I can add winning as a serial killer to my resume!!

Thanks for the game, Skull. I had fun!

Poor Almost. If only you had actually targeted me like you thought, you would have achieved your win condition.

There were several times that I feel like people should have picked up on me but didn't, like when there were only two kills and I was roleblocked. Or when everyone ignored Almost's protests that he targeted me even though he was telling the truth about his role. (this ended up being wrong but w/e)

Still I think despite my rough start I managed to somehow pull it together lol. I like being able to kill whoever I want.

Also RC, you would've gotten an inno on me.

[Elyse]

Also I didn't even need BP lmao

[Elyse]

VOTE: Irelandbark12